Monsanto Sponsored Bill to Outlaw Organic Food Growing...

[conch...@googlemail.com]

HI Folks,

you might want to check this out :

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-875

As detailed in the articles above, some of the potential hazards of HR
875 include:

* It includes small farmers who just sell their fruits and
vegetables at farmer’s markets
* Anyone engaged in food growing, or “holding food for
consumption” in the U.S. would have to register annually, and create
and maintain extensive records of the foods they grow and/or store
* The definitions of who this law pertains to are so broad and
loosely defined that they could potentially even include your personal
backyard fruit or vegetable garden, even if you don’t sell anything
but grow them for personal consumption
* It appears it could dictate how all food growers would have to
grow their food, including potentially the necessity to use certain
pest control measures, for example
* Authorities would have the ability to inspect any food
production facility at random to make sure it’s operating in
compliance with the food safety law, and again the definition of “food
production facility” is so loosely defined it could apply to your
personal orchard, vineyard, or vegetable garden, as long as it
produces something edible
* After the enactment of this Act, the Administrator, in
consultation with the Secretary of Agriculture and representatives of
State departments of agriculture will promulgate regulations to
establish “science-based minimum standards for the safe production of
food” by food production facilities. Meaning, no one even knows what
the food production standards are yet, but whatever they turn out to
be will have to be followed
* It is prohibited to: fail to register; refuse to permit access
to an inspector; refuse to allow copying of all records; fail to
establish or maintain any record required under the law
* Should you fail to comply with any of the rules and regulations,
there are both civil and criminal penalties, going as high as $1
million per violation, something that could clearly wipe out any small
farmer in a blink of an eye

I picked this up from :

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/04/02/Monsantos-Dream-Bill--HR-875.aspx

This is being supported by Obama, Brown and many of the G20 leaders...
and if it passes (and it looks likely) in the US, IT WILL PASS IN THE
UK, guaranteed.....

In 1986 the UN proposed to draft a human rights law, declaring that
food is a human right, which would have protected indigenous peoples
and their lands upon which they depend for food .... and would have
countered the actions of Monsanto and the IMF in forcing monoculture
cash crops and cheap imports upon African, Sout American and Asian
Countries.....

The USA nd the UK vetoed this resolution by the General Assembly
(using their Security Council Veto to do so ... though it is not a
security/war issue)... and countered with a resolution affirming
peoples right to buy food .... thus they could give indigenous peoples
GM soy or Rice and take their lands.... the General Assembly decided
to shelve the issue as they could not countenance the US/UK
position,,,,

These are the kinds of tactics that our 'leaders' utilise to expand
their control.... it is a war, in all but name.......

As for the recent g20 protests - all my contacts confirm the presence
of provocateurs ...strangers unknown to the activists hosting the
events........ and the police used much more violence today (2nd)
against the climate campers, and again at the vigil (today) for the
man who died yesterday.(1st)...

And (2nd) as well as raiding a few social centres in london with fully
togged up riot squads...they broke into the buildings, without
warning, without showing any warrants : they arrested everyone in each
building, hand cuffed them all, photographed them, hospitalised 4
people, and pretty much destroyed whatever they did not remove from
the buildings, rendering them practically unihabitable - Genoa all
over again..... these are gentle people, whom I know to be caring and
passionate, having seen and been at times part of their work over the
past decade....

Read between the lines and tell me what you see happening.....

Kindest regards

Corneilius

do what you love, it's your gift to universe

[TIMC...@aol.com]

In a message dated 03/04/2009 13:20:43 GMT Daylight Time, conch...@googlemail.com writes:

As detailed in the articles above, some of the potential hazards of HR
875 include:

Hi Cornelius,

sounds like they're being prepared for EU membership.

Tim

[TM Printing Ltd]

This is exactly the sort of thing I detest, right from the idea that
Monsanto should be able to sponsor a bill, right through to the
hidden agendas and including the undemocratic and 'big brother' style
regulations which ensue. We need to turn regulation on its head - the
bigger the company and the more money involved, the more enforced
regulation is necessary. At present the opposite is the case.

What actions do concerned people on this list suggest that
individuals can do to help counter this sort of thing specifically
and generally?

David

[TM Printing Ltd]

Where did you discover that Monsanto is sponsoring the bill?

Why is there no mention of this in the bill itself? As if I didn't know.

David

[McCREA Julie]

RE: Monsanto's Dream Bill

This is being supported by Obama, Brown and many of the G20 leaders...and if it passes (and it looks likely) in the US, IT WILL PASS IN THE UK, guaranteed.....
This is an American Bill what do other G20 leaders have to do with it.....?
Or are there plans afoot for all of us to have a clone of this Bill in our respective countries?

Every time I hear of Monsanto owning the world via food my mind instantly retrieves images from the film Soylent Green.
Humans were recycled at a certain age and became an ingredient in the food cakes that were distributed to the masses.

We were all naive enough to think that Nazism died with Hitler.
I get the cold creep up my spine every time I see some of our Police wearing the casual uniform with the trousers tucked into boots and wearing P-hats. Very reminiscent of Hitler's Brown Shirts only in blue.





conch...@googlemail.com wrote:

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
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[Victor Wood]

Hitler was simply a pilot project, a prototype, if you will, to test certain human behavioural characteristics.  Hitler himself was unimportant.  Wait till the real thing is rolled out.

---

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 01:57:00 +1100
From: jule...@iprimus.com.au
To: monbiot...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Monbiot] Re: Monsanto Sponsored Bill to Outlaw Organic Food Growing...

[TM Printing Ltd]

On 3 Aib 2009, at 16:00, Victor Wood wrote:

Hitler was simply a pilot project, a prototype, if you will, to test certain human behavioural characteristics.  Hitler himself was unimportant.  Wait till the real thing is rolled out.

LOL. Victor brings a touch of realism to the table, as usual.

David

[Duncan Hewitt]

This disgusts me - they feign that it is in *our* interests they lay
down this legislation, that it's for *our* health benefit that they do
this, and yet the only ones to benefit from it are those who have the
time and effort to wade through, fill out and submit the masses of
paperwork just to ensure them that you are a 'good citizen' - and
these willbe the big guys in the main who have that system in place
and can afford it. The same goes for many legal requirements regarding
selling goods, especially edible goods. A company like McDonalds can
practically rape the countrysides of South America within the law, and
yet someone sells something at a market from their own back garden can
find themselves outside that very same law, having upset no one.

My parents suffered the changeover when multi-refrigeration units were
brought in to house different types of food...prepared meat pies had
to be kept separate from cheese and so on. Being a small shop they
could not afford the outlay of several units for the amount of produce
they sold. How many people were made ill or died of food-poisoning
from eating their product - none. Because they were clean. If they
weren't then word would have got out and no one would have bought
their pies or cheese.

Again, with the larger scale of food production comes this need to an
extent for legislation because no one has any idea where their food
comes from, who has prepared it, how old it *really* is and what it
contains. If I buy a pie from a supermarket the chain is so long if I
dropped down dead you would need some paper-path to follow to find out
where things went wrong. If, however, I buy a pie from Mr Pieman down
the road who makes his own, and I drop down dead, you know where to
call to lay that blame.

I often wonder how much money is spent with large systems that need
massive amounts of office-work behind the scenes to cope with the day-
to-day bureaucracy. I bet any money saved on buying food from the big
guys these days is only, at the end of the day, down to the fact we're
buying food that is crap, devoid of nutrients and shipped at the
expense of the environment and not because their scale of economy is
so great. At best I pay maybe £2 more for my veg each week than if I
were to buy it at Asda, but I also know where it's come from and it's
decent stuff - I talk to the guy who's picked it every week.

We can only vote with our hands and feet and avoid buying as much as
possible these people make - and to encourage others to do so. I wish
there were a more effective, and legal, way.

Duncan

[Victor Wood]

;-)

---

From: grap...@tmprinting.ie

Subject: [Monbiot] Re: Monsanto Sponsored Bill to Outlaw Organic Food Growing...

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 16:06:34 +0100
To: monbiot...@googlegroups.com

[Victor Wood]

I have to say that this entire thread is really about the power of government over the people - "democracy" or not.  When a corporation like Monsanto wants something done, government does it for them - screw the people.

Never confuse government with people - there is no relationship there.

Best
V

> From: dun...@kopperdrake.co.uk
> To: monbiot...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [Monbiot] Re: Monsanto Sponsored Bill to Outlaw Organic Food Growing...

[conch...@googlemail.com]

Regarding Monsanto and this Bill, Monsanto repudiate ANY connection
with it.......

Here's a response by the author of the original note, with comments
from Monsanto... fair enough...

http://crooksandliars.com/nonny-mouse/monsanto-and-hr-875-take-two

Monsanto claimed that round-up was harmless, provided falsified test
data to support that claim and were caught out.

And have lied many, many times over their activities, lobbying
strategies and political 'contributions' - they have a well savvy
counter propaganda process, that essentially muddies the waters, buys
time....

They sre not to be trusted.

Whether or not Monsanto has direct or indirect links to Food
Legilsation, Codex Alimentarius, etc etc the essential point, as
Victor made, is that we KNOW that Politicians make decisons based upon
'evidence' and 'pressure' in a fundamentally undemocratic way -
behind closed doors .subject to input from Big Business that is hidden
behind 'commercial sensitivity'.. and that we, their 'employers', are
the last to know, the first to be criminalised if we dissent - and
generally dissent is way too late in the process - as many many people
in the UK have discovered over the years....

The Power Inquiry suggested a series of steps to hand the decision
making back to people, the 'employers' of the Civil Service and
Government. Of course Government said that The Power Inquiry is
'impractical' without going into any great detail as to why it is
'impractical'.

It is no longer tenable that Government have any rights to make
decisions that we ourselves could make, given the wide range of
skills, intelligence and creativity of PEOPLE....

That is the fundamental issue.

As for things being complex, actually it is the jargon used that makes
things complex, and creates the ground for a specialised
compartmentalised 'priesthood', one which baffles or bullshits it's
way through peoples objections time and time again.

[John Russell]

I've kept quiet on this one up 'til now and it would seem rightly.

Corneilius provided the following link... http://crooksandliars.com/nonny-mouse/monsanto-and-hr-875-take-two

"Quote:  "The other day, I wrote a post on the Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009: HR 875 being introduced to Congress by Rep. Rosa DeLauro (D –CT), in which I made the erroneous statement that her husband, Stanley Greenberg, worked for Monsanto. I also included in this post extracts from emails sent to me by Jill Richardson, an intelligent and passionate campaigner for organic farming. To her credit, when she read my post, she immediately sent me an urgent email, warning me that there was a great deal of misinformation buzzing around the Internet, which I had unwittingly included in my post. She herself pointed out that (1) the bill has nothing to do with Monsanto, (2) Rep. DeLauro’s husband is a pollster for a company that once had Monsanto as a customer a decade ago, but he in no way ‘works’ for Monsanto, (3) HR 875 as it currently stands is very unlikely to even pass, and (4) the group behind disseminating this trumped-up propaganda is NICFA, whose mission statement maintains their goal is to ‘promote and preserve unregulated direct farmer-to-consumer trade’ and ‘oppose any government funded or managed National Animal Identification System. This organization has been aided by the support of a woman named Linn Cohen-Cole, whose unsubstantiated and exaggerated claims in an obsessive crusade against Monsanto, Hillary Clinton, Obama and anyone else in an imagined government ‘plot’ to nationalize farming does seem to indicate a serious lack of credibility."

I do recommend reading the entire link as it's quite interesting.

There's a danger in kneejerk reactions. We should be as wary of 'facts' passed round the internet as we are of the words of big business and of politicians. Everyone, including each one of us, has an agenda to peddle and it's been my experience throughout life that the 'truth' almost always lies somewhere between the extremes.

Best wishes,

JR


conch...@googlemail.com wrote:

Monsanto claimed that round-up was harmless, provided falsified test
data to support that claim and were caught out.

And have lied many, many times over their activities, lobbying
strategies and political 'contributions' - they have a well savvy
counter propaganda process, that essentially muddies the waters, buys
time....

They sre not to be trusted.

Whether or not Monsanto has direct or indirect links to Food
Legilsation, Codex Alimentarius, etc etc the essential point, as
Victor made, is that we KNOW that Politicians make decisons based upon
'evidence' and 'pressure'  in a fundamentally undemocratic way -
behind closed doors .subject to input from Big Business that is hidden
behind 'commercial sensitivity'.. and that we, their 'employers', are
the last to know, the first to be criminalised if we dissent - and
generally dissent is way too late in the process - as many many people
in the UK have discovered over the years....

The Power Inquiry suggested a series of steps to hand the decision
making back to people, the 'employers' of the Civil Service and
Government. Of course Government said that The Power Inquiry is
'impractical' without going into any great detail as to why it is
'impractical'.

It is no longer tenable that Government have any rights to make
decisions that we ourselves could make, given the wide range of
skills, intelligence and creativity of PEOPLE....

That is the fundamental issue.

As for things being complex, actually it is the jargon used that makes
things complex, and creates the ground for a specialised
compartmentalised 'priesthood', one which baffles or bullshits it's
way through peoples objections time and time again.
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[McCREA Julie]

Make that Macabre Realism!

God Victor! I really hope that you are not such a dark person all of the time.......

Victor gives me nightmares.





TM Printing Ltd wrote:

[Victor Wood]

Jules

Dark and getting darker, I'm afraid.  I rarely see any good news any more.  Even those things I saw as permanent years ago, all seem fleetingly temporary now, perceptively more fragile.  We are in the midst of great and unyielding global change now, change that is not the harbinger of a better life for most of humanity, but instead has the smell of disaster about it.

My wife is a nurse, and she commented to me the other day about a patient of hers who recently died, "You know when someone is dying, you can see things, and they have a certain smell about them.  And when you see those things and smell that smell, you know the end is near and inevitable."  She said it with a note of sadness, as these things affect her and challenge her deeply caring nature.

And I thought as she said that, I too smell the end.

Best
V

---

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 19:07:50 +1100

From: jule...@iprimus.com.au
To: monbiot...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Monbiot] Re: Monsanto Sponsored Bill to Outlaw Organic Food Growing...

[McCREA Julie]

Don't get down in the dumps Duncan...... there has to be ways around these draconian laws for some small or local enterprise at least.
When I was kid Mum had a house cow and used to sell her milk to the neighbours. They would leave their billy cans on the fence post and later on pick it up full of super creamy milk. Somehow the Dairy Board got onto her enterprise and at the time the Dairy Board was State Gov owned. The argument they put forward was that ALL milk had to go through them and especially that they made sure that their cows were TB free. Mum used to have her cow tested etc. but that was their excuse for monopoly.
Mum just had the neighbours move their billy cans out of sight and if anyone asked she was giving away her excess milk.

Veggie farmers can start up co-op type situations whether real or otherwise and begin a membership of people who come to work on the farm in exchange for veges. No monetary sale: no problems. Real payment can be under the counter. Fresh food like this is almost a licence to print money as far as taxation goes as no person can predict or control the lifespan of fruit & veg. Truth be it that supermarkets have such an array of fruit & veg entirely to act as a 100% tax dump.

BUT.......as the US usually has every loophole slipping in their direction they may have already have that by-pass in hand.



Duncan Hewitt wrote:

[McCREA Julie]

Fair enough John but, we still know what Monsanto's world agenda is and how underhanded they are in their processes and dealings.
We can't just sit back and think 'this Bill will never pass' as quite often they do.
This info could be a deliberate leak to test the water so that if there is not enough outcry from the public, the Bill will not be changed or scrapped and will fly. Then we will all be up shit creek.



John Russell wrote:

[Victor Wood]

Goldman Sachs is the dark horse in the shadows who is present in every presidential administration, and growing in numbers with each new administration.  Their former employees and directors have infiltrated every level of the government to the point that it must be wondered if Goldman calls the shots for the government on major financial and economic decisions.

Former Goldman employees head the New York Stock Exchange, the World Bank, the U.S. Treasury Department, the White House staff, and firms such as Citigroup and Merrill Lynch.  Many assume roles at the Under Secrtetary level across the government.

Goldman Sachs is a strong supporter of Obama, contributing heavily for his election.  Why?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-ostertag/goldman-sachs-obama-money_b_177611.html

[Victor Wood]

It is very difficult to know what is true and what is not.  But you are absolutely correct - we must question everything, and yes, the truth often lies between the extremes - though occasionally, it lies beyond the extremes.

---

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 21:52:24 +0100
From: j...@johnrussell.tv

To: monbiot...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Monbiot] Re: Monsanto Sponsored Bill to Outlaw Organic Food Growing...

[Victor Wood]

More on Obama's top economic advisers - only 5 big banks hold the largest share of the derivative market that has broken the banks.  And Larry Summers and Tim Geithner know this and are keeping it low key.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/KD03Dj02.html


The world is still being fooled by these crooks.  And perhaps Obama too - but then again, what are you going to say when your biggest contributor is Wall Street?

[TM Printing Ltd]

Here's a good article about Monsanto and HR875:

http://farmwars.info/?p=388

David

[TM Printing Ltd]

And again:

http://www.naturalnews.com/025992.html

Monsanto is positioned to control legislation in the U.S. 

To ensure the perpetuation of its near monopoly, Monsanto is helping to install the right people in the right places. To that end, Michael Taylor, the ex FDA head who approved the use of bovine growth hormone (rBGH), has just become ensconced in the Obama transition team where he may soon be overseeing food safety link. He will join already well placed Tom Vilsack, the pro GMO Secretary of Agriculture. As a pair, Taylor and Vilsack, will be in a position to continue the phasing out of small and medium sized farms to make fertile farmland available for the intensive capital accumulation of factory farms, and the phasing in of Monsanto's take over of the entire U.S. food supply.

Passage of the food safety bill will allow Monsanto to continue taking control of farms without any obstacles. Similar laws in the EU have already wiped out 60% of Polish farmers so far. The Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points (HACCP), a production control system for the food industry, is helping to smooth the way for Monsanto by creating international harmonization of laws. According to an article by Linn Cohen-Cole, "in Kansas alone HACCP wiped out 72 small local meat processors who hadn't had any problems, and vastly lowered the number of inspections to the point where we have over 70 million food borne illnesses a year now."

Cohen-Cole is shocked at the lack of awareness of what is going on by people who support local and sustainable farming. She sees them as excited about an organic White House garden while a food safety bill is being put into law that would literally destroy everything they have been working for. She is hoping groups that support the going green agenda will wake up and join farmers in an effort to block the legislation. She suggests contacting Rosa DeLauro, the woman who sponsored HR 875. DeLauro can be reached at:

Washington Office: Phone 202-225-3661 Fax 202-225-4890
Connecticut Office: Phone 203-562-3718 Fax 203-772-2260

HR 875 is long and tedious reading, and in the style being set by the Obama administration, has probably not been read by the people slated to vote on it. In the face of public outrage, these legislators may not follow through with support for a bill making them targets for their constituents. But legislators are not the only ones who have been conned by the food safety bill.

Just like the Clean Water Act that ensured more contamination of waterways, and the Clean Air Act that ensured rising levels of air pollution, the Food Safety Act bears a name that makes it difficult to resist if you don't know the finer points. After all, who could be against food safety? Anyone standing up for family and healthy living is an easy mark for such deception. This well planned attack on the food supply counts on the ability of liberal and progressive communities to cut their own throats.

It may be that the South African crop failure is the first clue that nature will triumph over the scientists and GMO products will end up self destructing. It is certainly a wake up call to the dangers involved in the domination of the food supply by one company and its varieties of patented GMO seeds. It is something to hope for until one thinks about the widespread starvation that would follow in the wake of such an event. The threat of facing that makes contacting DeLauro a much more appealing way to at least temporarily derail Monsanto's plans. 

[TM Printing Ltd]

Yet another article about GMOs and America's relentless egotistical
imperialism:

http://food.change.org/blog/view/
senate_bill_will_mandate_gmos_for_hungry_nations

>> In the worst case scenario, this bill could force these countries
>> to choose between accepting genetically engineered technology or
>> forgoing food aid.
>
>
> I'm not sure if it's quite THAT evil but I certainly don't think
> it's good.

I think the author is being a tad optimistic but he does go on to
make some good points.

David

[Victor Wood]

No David...it's about power and profits.

> From: grap...@tmprinting.ie
> Subject: [Monbiot] Re: Monsanto Sponsored Bill to Outlaw Organic Food Growing...

[Victor Wood]

Does anyone besides me think that by placing these people in positions of power Obama is really an agent of change?  May I ask what kind of change please?

---

From: grap...@tmprinting.ie
Subject: [Monbiot] Re: Monsanto Sponsored Bill to Outlaw Organic Food Growing...

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 17:01:09 +0100
To: monbiot...@googlegroups.com

[TM Printing Ltd]

I know: I regard America as a corporate state.

David

[TM Printing Ltd]

On 6 Aib 2009, at 17:42, Victor Wood wrote:

Does anyone besides me think that by placing these people in positions of power Obama is really an agent of change?  May I ask what kind of change please?

He's made a few 'correct moves' - stem cell research, Guantanamo etc - which mean his spin doctors can divert attention from the rest of the business-as-usual ideology.

But as for 'change' - his handlers are just a bit more subtle. They're very experienced now.

David

[Victor Wood]

Indeed.  The ultimate corporate state.  What most do not realise is that America itself is not simply run by corporations, it is a corporate culture.  It's not that a few elite are in charge but that the elite operate in a culture that is designed to optimise their actions.  Democracy?  I challenge any American to prove that their country is a democracy.

---

From: grap...@tmprinting.ie
Subject: [Monbiot] Re: Monsanto Sponsored Bill to Outlaw Organic Food Growing...

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 17:43:45 +0100
To: monbiot...@googlegroups.com

[Victor Wood]

I must say that I admire Obama not for what he does, but for how he says it...VERY smooth....but in the end...it's the same old America up to the same old tricks playing with the world like it's their personal toy without regard for anyone.

---

From: grap...@tmprinting.ie
Subject: [Monbiot] Re: Monsanto Sponsored Bill to Outlaw Organic Food Growing...

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 17:46:36 +0100
To: monbiot...@googlegroups.com

[McCREA Julie]

Do you think that he may be the predicted False Prophet?


Victor Wood wrote:

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[McCREA Julie]

The cynicism here is thicker than peanut butter!
And sadly, is ringing with so much truth.



TM Printing Ltd wrote:

[McCREA Julie]

The lucky ones get to cast a vote every four years and this they believe is democracy.

In some States in the US if you have ever had a traffic infringement you are not eligible to vote.


Victor Wood wrote:

[John Russell]

I don't think it's just about imperialism, David; it's about ignorance. I think these people offering solutions genuinely want to help people short of food in over-populated, third-world countries. The problem is that, being citizens of the US, they can only imagine first-world, technological, fossil-fuelled solutions and -- because it's hard wired into their culture -- they also see an opportunity to make a buck in the process.

I must come clean here. I don't have the same fear of genetic manipulation that others do. In itself, GM food is not, automatically, poisonous or toxic or in any other way harmful; generally it's as safe to eat as any other foodstuff. My problem with GM in agriculture, is the secondary effects. GM foodstuffs are, for example, can be designed to be resistant to specific chemicals such as herbicides; thus, in this instance, enabling the indiscriminate use of those herbicides to wipe out everything but the GM crop. However in another case where, say, a GM crop is designed to be drought-resistant, it might have benefits in the sort of third-world areas where reliable rainfall is becoming a problem. This raises the big issue. If a GM crop can save immediate lives, provided the seed is not being sold at a profit, and provided there are no resultant secondary effects, then I cannot see there's an immediate problem. Of course, the real issue is to provide long-term solutions. GM technologies are unlikely to be sustainable -- but then neither are huge populations in areas of subsistence farming.

And, of course, I agree wholeheartedly that using technology to make the customer dependant on your monopoly product, so you can milk him 'til the pips squeak (mixing a metaphor), simply stinks. But that's what legislation is for. The important thing is to make it work.

I guess what we need is for every politician to be made to spend a month, penniless, in an African village.

Best wishes,

John

John Russell
Lower Winsford Farm
Devon, UK


TM Printing Ltd wrote:

I think the author is being a tad optimistic but he does go on to  
make some good points.

David

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--

[conch...@googlemail.com]

England is too, according to George Monbiots 2000 "Captive State", and
he was on the money then, still is.

The way that Local and National Government protected it's commercial
backers was through a phrase "commercially sensitive information"
meaning "we cannot tell you, just trust us."

The treament meted out to the PEACEFUL G20 CLIMATE CAMPERS was part
revenge, part warning, part 'being taught a lesson', part protection
of the G20 Summiteers Hubris.

Part revenge for the successes The Climat Camp folks, and others, have
had in court against previous unprovoked nasty police action.

Part warning to anyone so foolish as to oppose the status quo. And
especially to all those who raise valid counter-arguments to the
Carbon Trading con-job, the pride and joy of our current Government
and The City. New Markets!

They CLIMATE CAMPERS were located outside the Carbon Trading Exchange.
To highlight it's utter lack of utility when it comes to anything
other than theft. Of our chidlrens futures.

Part 'being taught a lesson' because the people who command and rule
are ex-public schoolboys who are emotionally blind to their own
childhood schooling trauma, and thus happy to 'teach' such lessons.
Violence is for them, a tool, and a policy.

Part protection of the Summiteers Hubris, as evinced by the set-up of
the 'assault' on the unprotected RBS Bank (the ONLY unprotected
building in the area!!), photographed by the world press, with large
numbers of police standing by, during the smashing of windows - what
were they waiting for?

That set up was utilised by media to undermine the message of the
various groups in the press the next day, and as a cover for the
Police to later assault on the G20 Climate Campers.

here's my ;latest broadside on this :

http://dwylcorneilius.blogspot.com/2009/04/g20-and-what-it-means-to-me.html

and here;s the grass roots revolution we need to encourage and
nourish :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/gardening-blog/2009/apr/07/gardens

[conch...@googlemail.com]

John russel wrote :

"I must come clean here. I don't have the same fear of genetic
manipulation that others do. In itself, GM food is not,
automatically,
poisonous or toxic or in any other way harmful; generally it's as
safe
to eat as any other foodstuff. My problem with GM in agriculture, is
the
secondary effects."

try this for size....

http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/GeneticRoulette/HealthRisksofGMFoodsSummaryDebate/index.cfm

all these studies are peer reviewed and verified....

and logically, our bodies are long time adapted and perfected to
optimise foods that nature produces, naturally, and any variation from
that is bound to cause problems.

Which is what we see, time and time again.

Diet is the single most important factor in determining the level of
degenerative disease, and that is inextricably linked to income
inequality, as well as direct access to food growing.

[John Russell]

I was very careful how I phrased my comment, Corneilius. 

I'm not a supporter of genetically manipulated foodstuffs for many reasons -- particularly to do with sustainability and their long-term effects on the environment. However I am questioning the implied suggestion that by eating a genetically manipulated foodstuff you are, by definition, poisoning yourself (which, judging from your response, is what you believe). The reason I raise the question is because this is an issue which will become very important in the coming years as society tries to help those living in parts of the world where they will struggle to grow enough food for unsustainable populations.

Here are a couple of links from what I believe to be responsible bodies (with titles that are not emotive).

http://www.beep.ac.uk/content/392.0.html

Quote, " Are GM foods safe?

Different GM organisms include different genes inserted in different ways. This means that individual GM foods and their safety should be assessed on a case-by-case basis and that it is not possible to make general statements on the safety of all GM foods.

According to the WHO, GM foods currently available on the international market have passed risk assessments and are not likely to present risks for human health. In addition, no effects on human health have been shown as a result of the consumption of such foods by the general population in the countries where they have been approved (since 1995/96)."

http://vega.org.uk/video/programme/2

This second link contains a very interesting video discussion that I would recommend to all. Once again, things are never as clear-cut, black and white, as we would like to believe.

I'll be interested to read any considered arguments on either side of the divide. As you can probably tell, I'm fence-sitting at the moment -- but not necessarily easy to push off on either side!

Best wishes,

JR


conch...@googlemail.com wrote:

all these studies are peer reviewed and verified....

and logically, our bodies are long time adapted and perfected to
optimise foods that nature produces, naturally, and any variation from
that is bound to cause problems.

Which is what we see, time and time again.

Diet is the single most important factor in determining the level of
degenerative disease, and that is inextricably linked to income
inequality, as well as direct access to food growing.
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[TM Printing Ltd]

On 7 Aib 2009, at 18:57, John Russell wrote:

If a GM crop can save immediate lives, provided the seed is not being sold at a profit, and provided there are no resultant secondary effects

John

American educational institutions (and other nations are close behind) are heavily corporatised, so the profit motive is built in. Profit comes before knowledge.

Therefore, given that situation, the second part of your sentence can never be tested.

I guess what we need is for every politician to be made to spend a month, penniless, in an African village.

At least a month. Joking aside, they need to be accountable to those who vote for them. It is plain they are not - particularly in the most 'free' nation on earth! Hah.

David

[TM Printing Ltd]

On 7 Aib 2009, at 19:22, conch...@googlemail.com wrote:

> England is too, according to George Monbiots 2000 "Captive State", and
> he was on the money then, still is.

If anything, George pulled his punches in that book.

It was still a devastating book.

If it were re-written today, it would seem beyond fiction.

David

[John Russell]

I was thinking along the lines of a seed change (sorry, couldn't resist the pun) similar to what might appear to be happening in the drug industry...
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/feb/13/glaxo-smith-kline-cheap-medicine

I know, I know; actions speak louder than words.

Best wishes,

JR




TM Printing Ltd wrote:

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