Gridiron Flow is now out of beta and available for purchase and download.
To see the abilities of this amazing application, check out Dave Cross' intro in John Nack's blog. If you decide you like it, Deke McClelland has them offering a $100 off till midnight of July 3.
The reviews are right: this is a game changer. Seriously. If you haven't been following it's development, watch the intro video. You'll even see that Flow now has a Flash Panel from within Photoshop and Illustrator (he didn't mention InDesign or Flash).
While it's clearly targeting Adobe's CS4, the fact that it works with Word and Excel and Pages and Numbers makes this great for your non- design work! Heck, even Notepad and TextEdit are support.
Supported Applications: Adobe Acrobat 8,9 Adobe After Effects CS3,CS4 Adobe Bridge CS3,CS4 Adobe Dreamweaver CS3,CS4 Adobe Encore CS3,CS4 Adobe Fireworks CS3,CS4 Adobe Flash CS3,CS4 Adobe Illustrator CS3,CS4 Adobe InDesign CS3,CS4 Adobe Photoshop CS3,CS4 Adobe Premiere Pro CS3,CS4 Adobe Soundbooth CS3,CS4 Adobe Media Encoder CS4 Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 and later Keynote '08,'09 Numbers '08,'09 Pages '08,'09 Preview Motion '08 Soundtrack Pro 2 Compressor Microsoft Excel 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later Microsoft PowerPoint 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later Microsoft Word 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later Notepad Quicktime Player Text Edit Shake Cinema 4D Nuke Finder Explorer
I hope you'll forgive the cross-posting, but this seems like the kind of thing that should be built in at the OS level!
Wow - that's wild... and I love the scottish accent on the video.
________________________________
From: Keith L Dvorak <sylvati...@voxsylvatici.com>
To: MNSWF Group MNSWF <mnswf@googlegroups.com>; flas...@yahoogroups.com; Getting_Things_D...@yahoogroups.com; paperlessz...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 12:46:35 PM
Subject: [mnswf] Gridiron Flow
Gridiron Flow is now out of beta and available for purchase and download.
To see the abilities of this amazing application, check out Dave Cross' intro in John Nack's blog. If you decide you like it, Deke McClelland has them offering a $100 off till midnight of July 3.
The reviews are right: this is a game changer. Seriously. If you haven't been following it's development, watch the intro video. You'll even see that Flow now has a Flash Panel from within Photoshop and Illustrator (he didn't mention InDesign or Flash).
While it's clearly targeting Adobe's CS4, the fact that it works with Word and Excel and Pages and Numbers makes this great for your non-design work! Heck, even Notepad and TextEdit are support.
Supported Applications:
Adobe Acrobat 8,9
Adobe After Effects CS3,CS4
Adobe Bridge CS3,CS4
Adobe Dreamweaver CS3,CS4
Adobe Encore CS3,CS4
Adobe Fireworks CS3,CS4
Adobe Flash CS3,CS4
Adobe Illustrator CS3,CS4
Adobe InDesign CS3,CS4
Adobe Photoshop CS3,CS4
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3,CS4
Adobe Soundbooth CS3,CS4
Adobe Media Encoder CS4
Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 and later
Keynote '08,'09
Numbers '08,'09
Pages '08,'09
Preview
Motion '08
Soundtrack Pro 2
Compressor
Microsoft Excel 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
Microsoft PowerPoint 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
Microsoft Word 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
Notepad
Quicktime Player
Text Edit
Shake
Cinema 4D
Nuke
Finder
Explorer
I hope you'll forgive the cross-posting, but this seems like the kind of thing that should be built in at the OS level!
I'm serious! This really is amazing. If you watch the intro vid, I
almost inclined to think that just the ability to restore layers after
flattening a PSD file is worth it!
You can use it for billing because it tracks your time, you can see
all the files that make up another file, it won't let you delete a
file that's an element of another file.
> Wow - that's wild... and I love the scottish accent on the video.
> From: Keith L Dvorak <sylvati...@voxsylvatici.com>
> To: MNSWF Group MNSWF <mnswf@googlegroups.com>; flas...@yahoogroups.com > ; Getting_Things_D...@yahoogroups.com; paperlessz...@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 12:46:35 PM
> Subject: [mnswf] Gridiron Flow
> Gridiron Flow is now out of beta and available for purchase and
> download.
> To see the abilities of this amazing application, check out Dave
> Cross' intro in John Nack's blog. If you decide you like it, Deke
> McClelland has them offering a $100 off till midnight of July 3.
> The reviews are right: this is a game changer. Seriously. If you
> haven't been following it's development, watch the intro video.
> You'll even see that Flow now has a Flash Panel from within
> Photoshop and Illustrator (he didn't mention InDesign or Flash).
> While it's clearly targeting Adobe's CS4, the fact that it works
> with Word and Excel and Pages and Numbers makes this great for your
> non-design work! Heck, even Notepad and TextEdit are support.
> Supported Applications:
> Adobe Acrobat 8,9
> Adobe After Effects CS3,CS4
> Adobe Bridge CS3,CS4
> Adobe Dreamweaver CS3,CS4
> Adobe Encore CS3,CS4
> Adobe Fireworks CS3,CS4
> Adobe Flash CS3,CS4
> Adobe Illustrator CS3,CS4
> Adobe InDesign CS3,CS4
> Adobe Photoshop CS3,CS4
> Adobe Premiere Pro CS3,CS4
> Adobe Soundbooth CS3,CS4
> Adobe Media Encoder CS4
> Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 and later
> Keynote '08,'09
> Numbers '08,'09
> Pages '08,'09
> Preview
> Motion '08
> Soundtrack Pro 2
> Compressor
> Microsoft Excel 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
> Microsoft PowerPoint 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
> Microsoft Word 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
> Notepad
> Quicktime Player
> Text Edit
> Shake
> Cinema 4D
> Nuke
> Finder
> Explorer
> I hope you'll forgive the cross-posting, but this seems like the
> kind of thing that should be built in at the OS level!
> I'm serious! This really is amazing. If you watch the intro vid, I
> almost inclined to think that just the ability to restore layers
> after flattening a PSD file is worth it!
> You can use it for billing because it tracks your time, you can see
> all the files that make up another file, it won't let you delete a
> file that's an element of another file.
> And $100 off seems a generous offer to me.
> Keith
> On Jul 1, 2009, at 5:44 PM, Alan Smith wrote:
>> Wow - that's wild... and I love the scottish accent on the video.
>> From: Keith L Dvorak <sylvati...@voxsylvatici.com>
>> To: MNSWF Group MNSWF <mnswf@googlegroups.com>; flas...@yahoogroups.com >> ; Getting_Things_D...@yahoogroups.com; paperlessz...@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 12:46:35 PM
>> Subject: [mnswf] Gridiron Flow
>> Gridiron Flow is now out of beta and available for purchase and
>> download.
>> To see the abilities of this amazing application, check out Dave
>> Cross' intro in John Nack's blog. If you decide you like it, Deke
>> McClelland has them offering a $100 off till midnight of July 3.
>> The reviews are right: this is a game changer. Seriously. If you
>> haven't been following it's development, watch the intro video.
>> You'll even see that Flow now has a Flash Panel from within
>> Photoshop and Illustrator (he didn't mention InDesign or Flash).
>> While it's clearly targeting Adobe's CS4, the fact that it works
>> with Word and Excel and Pages and Numbers makes this great for your
>> non-design work! Heck, even Notepad and TextEdit are support.
>> Supported Applications:
>> Adobe Acrobat 8,9
>> Adobe After Effects CS3,CS4
>> Adobe Bridge CS3,CS4
>> Adobe Dreamweaver CS3,CS4
>> Adobe Encore CS3,CS4
>> Adobe Fireworks CS3,CS4
>> Adobe Flash CS3,CS4
>> Adobe Illustrator CS3,CS4
>> Adobe InDesign CS3,CS4
>> Adobe Photoshop CS3,CS4
>> Adobe Premiere Pro CS3,CS4
>> Adobe Soundbooth CS3,CS4
>> Adobe Media Encoder CS4
>> Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 and later
>> Keynote '08,'09
>> Numbers '08,'09
>> Pages '08,'09
>> Preview
>> Motion '08
>> Soundtrack Pro 2
>> Compressor
>> Microsoft Excel 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
>> Microsoft PowerPoint 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
>> Microsoft Word 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
>> Notepad
>> Quicktime Player
>> Text Edit
>> Shake
>> Cinema 4D
>> Nuke
>> Finder
>> Explorer
>> I hope you'll forgive the cross-posting, but this seems like the
>> kind of thing that should be built in at the OS level!
Really? I've been following the development of this app for almost two
years now, so perhaps I've assumed more was present in the intro than
was there. If so, my apologies. You can go to the product's main page
and watch their introductory video or the features page (Workflow
Maps, Real-time Asset Tracking, Visual Versioning, Time Tracking, etc)
for those videos, and there are other pages too, easily found by the
navigation panel on the left. Perhaps that gives a fuller picture. As
the Dave Cross video says, though, for many, just the ability to undo
flattening a Photoshop file is a huge deal.
Install it and forget about it. You work the way you want to work,
without having to change any habits.
Let's say you're working on an InDesign document for an Annual Report.
You have a Word/Page/Notepad/TextEdit file for the text. You have 20
screenshot files you edited in Photoshop, each a separate file. You
also have Board Member and employee photos. There is also the cover
you created using 48 layers. You created an infographic in
Illustrator. You generated some spreadsheets in Excel/Numbers. When
you were finished with the document, you had one layer for English,
one for French, and one for Japanese. You exported the finished
document to PDF and XML and HTML and Flash.
While you're cleaning up at the end of the project, you go to delete a
screenshot file you think you didn't use (but you did). Flow will warn
you that you're about to delete a file linked to your InDesign
finished file.
You know you saved the files on an external drive but can't recall
which one. Flow knows.
You think you're done and flatten the Photoshop file of the cover. A
week later, the client asks you to adjust the color or move an
element. Flow, with one click, returns you to the previous version
with layers. This alone is amazing. There is no undo to restore layers
to Photoshop file.
You can't for the life of you remember the file name for the employee
photo of that amazing photo with Mt Fuji in the background, but you
remember that it had a layer called "mtfuji." You search in Flow and
there it is.
You're attending yet another meeting with client and they tell you
that while they love what you've done and they thank for you
incorporating every change they've requested, they tell you that they
really do prefer the "green" cover which was four iterations back. You
open Flow and return to that version.
You're preparing the bill (with a huge penalty for that "green" cover
stunt they just pulled) and you want to know who much time you spent
on each file. Flow shows you how much time you spent working on ever
file.
> I looked at the intro but I'm still not exactly sure what it does or
> why I'd want/need it.
> On Jul 1, 2009, at 5:54 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
>> I'm serious! This really is amazing. If you watch the intro vid, I
>> almost inclined to think that just the ability to restore layers
>> after flattening a PSD file is worth it!
>> You can use it for billing because it tracks your time, you can see
>> all the files that make up another file, it won't let you delete a
>> file that's an element of another file.
>> And $100 off seems a generous offer to me.
>> Keith
>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 5:44 PM, Alan Smith wrote:
>>> Wow - that's wild... and I love the scottish accent on the video.
>>> From: Keith L Dvorak <sylvati...@voxsylvatici.com>
>>> To: MNSWF Group MNSWF <mnswf@googlegroups.com>; flas...@yahoogroups.com >>> ; Getting_Things_D...@yahoogroups.com; paperlessz...@yahoogroups.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 12:46:35 PM
>>> Subject: [mnswf] Gridiron Flow
>>> Gridiron Flow is now out of beta and available for purchase and
>>> download.
>>> To see the abilities of this amazing application, check out Dave
>>> Cross' intro in John Nack's blog. If you decide you like it, Deke
>>> McClelland has them offering a $100 off till midnight of July 3.
>>> The reviews are right: this is a game changer. Seriously. If you
>>> haven't been following it's development, watch the intro video.
>>> You'll even see that Flow now has a Flash Panel from within
>>> Photoshop and Illustrator (he didn't mention InDesign or Flash).
>>> While it's clearly targeting Adobe's CS4, the fact that it works
>>> with Word and Excel and Pages and Numbers makes this great for
>>> your non-design work! Heck, even Notepad and TextEdit are support.
>>> Supported Applications:
>>> Adobe Acrobat 8,9
>>> Adobe After Effects CS3,CS4
>>> Adobe Bridge CS3,CS4
>>> Adobe Dreamweaver CS3,CS4
>>> Adobe Encore CS3,CS4
>>> Adobe Fireworks CS3,CS4
>>> Adobe Flash CS3,CS4
>>> Adobe Illustrator CS3,CS4
>>> Adobe InDesign CS3,CS4
>>> Adobe Photoshop CS3,CS4
>>> Adobe Premiere Pro CS3,CS4
>>> Adobe Soundbooth CS3,CS4
>>> Adobe Media Encoder CS4
>>> Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 and later
>>> Keynote '08,'09
>>> Numbers '08,'09
>>> Pages '08,'09
>>> Preview
>>> Motion '08
>>> Soundtrack Pro 2
>>> Compressor
>>> Microsoft Excel 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
>>> Microsoft PowerPoint 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
>>> Microsoft Word 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
>>> Notepad
>>> Quicktime Player
>>> Text Edit
>>> Shake
>>> Cinema 4D
>>> Nuke
>>> Finder
>>> Explorer
>>> I hope you'll forgive the cross-posting, but this seems like the
>>> kind of thing that should be built in at the OS level!
Sounds cool I guess. I don't know how much I would gain from it. I
keep my files fairly well organized and I do hourly backups of all
files. Asset Tracking sounds great, but only really when I'm working
on other people files, can it go in after the fact and do this? Same
with undo flattening a photoshop file, only of interest for when I get
a flattened file from a designer, but I'm guessing it won't really
help then.
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but some of this kind of
sounds like an excuse for people to continue in their bad habits. There are some features that sound good, but I don't think it's worth
the overhead. This sounds more like a designers tool to me.
> Really? I've been following the development of this app for almost
> two years now, so perhaps I've assumed more was present in the intro
> than was there. If so, my apologies. You can go to the product's
> main page and watch their introductory video or the features page
> (Workflow Maps, Real-time Asset Tracking, Visual Versioning, Time
> Tracking, etc) for those videos, and there are other pages too,
> easily found by the navigation panel on the left. Perhaps that gives
> a fuller picture. As the Dave Cross video says, though, for many,
> just the ability to undo flattening a Photoshop file is a huge deal.
> Install it and forget about it. You work the way you want to work,
> without having to change any habits.
> Let's say you're working on an InDesign document for an Annual
> Report. You have a Word/Page/Notepad/TextEdit file for the text. You
> have 20 screenshot files you edited in Photoshop, each a separate
> file. You also have Board Member and employee photos. There is also
> the cover you created using 48 layers. You created an infographic in
> Illustrator. You generated some spreadsheets in Excel/Numbers. When
> you were finished with the document, you had one layer for English,
> one for French, and one for Japanese. You exported the finished
> document to PDF and XML and HTML and Flash.
> While you're cleaning up at the end of the project, you go to delete
> a screenshot file you think you didn't use (but you did). Flow will
> warn you that you're about to delete a file linked to your InDesign
> finished file.
> You know you saved the files on an external drive but can't recall
> which one. Flow knows.
> You think you're done and flatten the Photoshop file of the cover. A
> week later, the client asks you to adjust the color or move an
> element. Flow, with one click, returns you to the previous version
> with layers. This alone is amazing. There is no undo to restore
> layers to Photoshop file.
> You can't for the life of you remember the file name for the
> employee photo of that amazing photo with Mt Fuji in the background,
> but you remember that it had a layer called "mtfuji." You search in
> Flow and there it is.
> You're attending yet another meeting with client and they tell you
> that while they love what you've done and they thank for you
> incorporating every change they've requested, they tell you that
> they really do prefer the "green" cover which was four iterations
> back. You open Flow and return to that version.
> You're preparing the bill (with a huge penalty for that "green"
> cover stunt they just pulled) and you want to know who much time you
> spent on each file. Flow shows you how much time you spent working
> on ever file.
> Keith
> On Jul 1, 2009, at 6:56 PM, Paul Decoursey wrote:
>> I looked at the intro but I'm still not exactly sure what it does
>> or why I'd want/need it.
>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 5:54 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
>>> I'm serious! This really is amazing. If you watch the intro vid, I
>>> almost inclined to think that just the ability to restore layers
>>> after flattening a PSD file is worth it!
>>> You can use it for billing because it tracks your time, you can
>>> see all the files that make up another file, it won't let you
>>> delete a file that's an element of another file.
>>> And $100 off seems a generous offer to me.
>>> Keith
>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 5:44 PM, Alan Smith wrote:
>>>> Wow - that's wild... and I love the scottish accent on the video.
>>>> From: Keith L Dvorak <sylvati...@voxsylvatici.com>
>>>> To: MNSWF Group MNSWF <mnswf@googlegroups.com>; flas...@yahoogroups.com >>>> ; Getting_Things_D...@yahoogroups.com; paperlessz...@yahoogroups.com
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 12:46:35 PM
>>>> Subject: [mnswf] Gridiron Flow
>>>> Gridiron Flow is now out of beta and available for purchase and
>>>> download.
>>>> To see the abilities of this amazing application, check out Dave
>>>> Cross' intro in John Nack's blog. If you decide you like it, Deke
>>>> McClelland has them offering a $100 off till midnight of July 3.
>>>> The reviews are right: this is a game changer. Seriously. If you
>>>> haven't been following it's development, watch the intro video.
>>>> You'll even see that Flow now has a Flash Panel from within
>>>> Photoshop and Illustrator (he didn't mention InDesign or Flash).
>>>> While it's clearly targeting Adobe's CS4, the fact that it works
>>>> with Word and Excel and Pages and Numbers makes this great for
>>>> your non-design work! Heck, even Notepad and TextEdit are support.
>>>> Supported Applications:
>>>> Adobe Acrobat 8,9
>>>> Adobe After Effects CS3,CS4
>>>> Adobe Bridge CS3,CS4
>>>> Adobe Dreamweaver CS3,CS4
>>>> Adobe Encore CS3,CS4
>>>> Adobe Fireworks CS3,CS4
>>>> Adobe Flash CS3,CS4
>>>> Adobe Illustrator CS3,CS4
>>>> Adobe InDesign CS3,CS4
>>>> Adobe Photoshop CS3,CS4
>>>> Adobe Premiere Pro CS3,CS4
>>>> Adobe Soundbooth CS3,CS4
>>>> Adobe Media Encoder CS4
>>>> Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 and later
>>>> Keynote '08,'09
>>>> Numbers '08,'09
>>>> Pages '08,'09
>>>> Preview
>>>> Motion '08
>>>> Soundtrack Pro 2
>>>> Compressor
>>>> Microsoft Excel 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
>>>> Microsoft PowerPoint 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
>>>> Microsoft Word 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
>>>> Notepad
>>>> Quicktime Player
>>>> Text Edit
>>>> Shake
>>>> Cinema 4D
>>>> Nuke
>>>> Finder
>>>> Explorer
>>>> I hope you'll forgive the cross-posting, but this seems like the
>>>> kind of thing that should be built in at the OS level!
I'm working with a creative department that could definitely benefit from a lot of this functionality. I would agree that its target audience is prob on the design side. My reservation is over the price - even with the discount, that is a fair chunk of change. My comment about the scottish accent was (mostly) sincere - reminds of my grandparents... Ciamar a tha thu!
________________________________
From: Paul Decoursey <p...@decoursey.net>
To: mnswf@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 7:50:31 PM
Subject: [mnswf] Re: Gridiron Flow
Sounds cool I guess. I don't know how much I would gain from it. I keep my files fairly well organized and I do hourly backups of all files. Asset Tracking sounds great, but only really when I'm working on other people files, can it go in after the fact and do this? Same with undo flattening a photoshop file, only of interest for when I get a flattened file from a designer, but I'm guessing it won't really help then.
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but some of this kind of sounds like an excuse for people to continue in their bad habits. There are some features that sound good, but I don't think it's worth the overhead. This sounds more like a designers tool to me.
On Jul 1, 2009, at 7:28 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
Really? I've been following the development of this app for almost two years now, so perhaps I've assumed more was present in the intro than was there. If so, my apologies. You can go to the product's main page and watch their introductory video or the features page (Workflow Maps, Real-time Asset Tracking, Visual Versioning, Time Tracking, etc) for those videos, and there are other pages too, easily found by the navigation panel on the left. Perhaps that gives a fuller picture. As the Dave Cross video says, though, for many, just the ability to undo flattening a Photoshop file is a huge deal.
>Install it and forget about it. You work the way you want to work, without having to change any habits.
>Let's say you're working on an InDesign document for an Annual Report. You have a Word/Page/Notepad/TextEdit file for the text. You have 20 screenshot files you edited in Photoshop, each a separate file. You also have Board Member and employee photos. There is also the cover you created using 48 layers. You created an infographic in Illustrator. You generated some spreadsheets in Excel/Numbers. When you were finished with the document, you had one layer for English, one for French, and one for Japanese. You exported the finished document to PDF and XML and HTML and Flash.
>While you're cleaning up at the end of the project, you go to delete a screenshot file you think you didn't use (but you did). Flow will warn you that you're about to delete a file linked to your InDesign finished file.
>You know you saved the files on an external drive but can't recall which one. Flow knows.
>You think you're done and flatten the Photoshop file of the cover. A week later, the client asks you to adjust the color or move an element. Flow, with one click, returns you to the previous version with layers. This alone is amazing. There is no undo to restore layers to Photoshop file.
>You can't for the life of you remember the file name for the employee photo of that amazing photo with Mt Fuji in the background, but you remember that it had a layer called "mtfuji." You search in Flow and there it is.
>You're attending yet another meeting with client and they tell you that while they love what you've done and they thank for you incorporating every change they've requested, they tell you that they really do prefer the "green" cover which was four iterations back. You open Flow and return to that version.
>You're preparing the bill (with a huge penalty for that "green" cover stunt they just pulled) and you want to know who much time you spent on each file. Flow shows you how much time you spent working on ever file.
>Keith
>On Jul 1, 2009, at 6:56 PM, Paul Decoursey wrote:
>I looked at the intro but I'm still not exactly sure what it does or why I'd want/need it.
>>On Jul 1, 2009, at 5:54 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
>>I'm serious! This really is amazing. If you watch the intro vid, I almost inclined to think that just the ability to restore layers after flattening a PSD file is worth it!
>>>You can use it for billing because it tracks your time, you can see all the files that make up another file, it won't let you delete a file that's an element of another file.
>>>And $100 off seems a generous offer to me.
>>>Keith
>>>On Jul 1, 2009, at 5:44 PM, Alan Smith wrote:
>>>> Wow - that's wild... and I love the scottish accent on the video.
________________________________
From: Keith L Dvorak <sylvati...@voxsylvatici.com>
>>>>To: MNSWF Group MNSWF <mnswf@googlegroups.com>; flas...@yahoogroups.com; Getting_Things_D...@yahoogroups.com; paperlessz...@yahoogroups.com
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 12:46:35 PM
>>>>Subject: [mnswf] Gridiron Flow
>>>>Gridiron Flow is now out of beta and available for purchase and download.
>>>>To see the abilities of this amazing application, check out Dave Cross' intro in John Nack's blog. If you decide you like it, Deke McClelland has them offering a $100 off till midnight of July 3.
>>>>The reviews are right: this is a game changer. Seriously. If you haven't been following it's development, watch the intro video. You'll even see that Flow now has a Flash Panel from within Photoshop and Illustrator (he didn't mention InDesign or Flash).
>>>>While it's clearly targeting Adobe's CS4, the fact that it works with Word and Excel and Pages and Numbers makes this great for your non-design work! Heck, even Notepad and TextEdit are support.
>>>>Supported Applications:
>>>>Adobe Acrobat 8,9
>>>>Adobe After Effects CS3,CS4
>>>>Adobe Bridge CS3,CS4
>>>>Adobe Dreamweaver CS3,CS4
>>>>Adobe Encore CS3,CS4
>>>>Adobe Fireworks CS3,CS4
>>>>Adobe Flash CS3,CS4
>>>>Adobe Illustrator CS3,CS4
>>>>Adobe InDesign CS3,CS4
>>>>Adobe Photoshop CS3,CS4
>>>>Adobe Premiere Pro CS3,CS4
>>>>Adobe Soundbooth CS3,CS4
>>>>Adobe Media Encoder CS4
>>>>Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 and later
>>>>Keynote '08,'09
>>>>Numbers '08,'09
>>>>Pages '08,'09
>>>>Preview
>>>>Motion '08
>>>>Soundtrack Pro 2
>>>>Compressor
>>>>Microsoft Excel 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
>>>>Microsoft PowerPoint 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
>>>>Microsoft Word 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
>>>>Notepad
>>>>Quicktime Player
>>>>Text Edit
>>>>Shake
>>>>Cinema 4D
>>>>Nuke
>>>>Finder
>>>>Explorer
>>>>I hope you'll forgive the cross-posting, but this seems like the kind of thing that should be built in at the OS level!
Yes, it's certainly aimed at designers, but since so many on this list
work not only with Flex, but Flash and Photoshop and Illustrator, or
designers or design teams, I thought it worth sharing.
Paul is correct: you cannot unflatten a PS file that was flattened on
someone else's machine.
I'm of two minds re the "bad habits" comment. I've always been pretty
anal about my folder structure and file naming conventions. And often
I think "why can't people be more like me?" Seriously. Why? But the
world is littered with the remains of ideas of people who wondered why
"everyone else" didn't just march to the beat of that drum. </Betamax>
And there flourishes in this world ideas that accepted people where
they were at in their habits and went with the flow. I would argue
that that's a particular strength of the Founding Fathers: They didn't
write a constitution for how we should be, but rather how we are.
On the other hand, creative people produce some amazing things. Who am
I to argue with their method? Maybe it's part and parcel; a whole
package sort of deal, pro and con, yin and yang, good with the bad?
Should it be other than the way it is? Maybe. Is it? No. Can you
change it? 10,000+ years and counting for those who've tried.
But even if one convinced designers of the truth of reforming their
bad habits, there are still accidents. You can flatten that PS file as
even as your inner self is screaming "WTF are you doing?!" ("F" =
frak, because I'm a Cylon.)
And even if you have the best file system out there, and you're one of
the blessed who don't make mistakes, the client will still come to you
several weeks down the road and say "We liked the green one better
after all. Please change it back to that version." <click> (Did you
hang up? No, I just said "click.")
That leaves mind reading. 800.555.1212. Our trained mind readers are
standing by to help with that client.
I don't feel rained upon. I think you make great points. And the
product is certainly not courting code monkeys. But, I think it might
just be a hit with its intended audience! :-)
> I'm working with a creative department that could definitely benefit
> from a lot of this functionality. I would agree that its target
> audience is prob on the design side. My reservation is over the
> price - even with the discount, that is a fair chunk of change.
> My comment about the scottish accent was (mostly) sincere - reminds
> of my grandparents... Ciamar a tha thu!
> From: Paul Decoursey <p...@decoursey.net>
> To: mnswf@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 7:50:31 PM
> Subject: [mnswf] Re: Gridiron Flow
> Sounds cool I guess. I don't know how much I would gain from it. I
> keep my files fairly well organized and I do hourly backups of all
> files. Asset Tracking sounds great, but only really when I'm
> working on other people files, can it go in after the fact and do
> this? Same with undo flattening a photoshop file, only of interest
> for when I get a flattened file from a designer, but I'm guessing it
> won't really help then.
> I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but some of this kind of
> sounds like an excuse for people to continue in their bad habits. > There are some features that sound good, but I don't think it's
> worth the overhead. This sounds more like a designers tool to me.
> On Jul 1, 2009, at 7:28 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
>> Really? I've been following the development of this app for almost
>> two years now, so perhaps I've assumed more was present in the
>> intro than was there. If so, my apologies. You can go to the
>> product's main page and watch their introductory video or the
>> features page (Workflow Maps, Real-time Asset Tracking, Visual
>> Versioning, Time Tracking, etc) for those videos, and there are
>> other pages too, easily found by the navigation panel on the left.
>> Perhaps that gives a fuller picture. As the Dave Cross video says,
>> though, for many, just the ability to undo flattening a Photoshop
>> file is a huge deal.
>> Install it and forget about it. You work the way you want to work,
>> without having to change any habits.
>> Let's say you're working on an InDesign document for an Annual
>> Report. You have a Word/Page/Notepad/TextEdit file for the text.
>> You have 20 screenshot files you edited in Photoshop, each a
>> separate file. You also have Board Member and employee photos.
>> There is also the cover you created using 48 layers. You created an
>> infographic in Illustrator. You generated some spreadsheets in
>> Excel/Numbers. When you were finished with the document, you had
>> one layer for English, one for French, and one for Japanese. You
>> exported the finished document to PDF and XML and HTML and Flash.
>> While you're cleaning up at the end of the project, you go to
>> delete a screenshot file you think you didn't use (but you did).
>> Flow will warn you that you're about to delete a file linked to
>> your InDesign finished file.
>> You know you saved the files on an external drive but can't recall
>> which one. Flow knows.
>> You think you're done and flatten the Photoshop file of the cover.
>> A week later, the client asks you to adjust the color or move an
>> element. Flow, with one click, returns you to the previous version
>> with layers. This alone is amazing. There is no undo to restore
>> layers to Photoshop file.
>> You can't for the life of you remember the file name for the
>> employee photo of that amazing photo with Mt Fuji in the
>> background, but you remember that it had a layer called "mtfuji."
>> You search in Flow and there it is.
>> You're attending yet another meeting with client and they tell you
>> that while they love what you've done and they thank for you
>> incorporating every change they've requested, they tell you that
>> they really do prefer the "green" cover which was four iterations
>> back. You open Flow and return to that version.
>> You're preparing the bill (with a huge penalty for that "green"
>> cover stunt they just pulled) and you want to know who much time
>> you spent on each file. Flow shows you how much time you spent
>> working on ever file.
>> Keith
>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 6:56 PM, Paul Decoursey wrote:
>>> I looked at the intro but I'm still not exactly sure what it does
>>> or why I'd want/need it.
>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 5:54 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
>>>> I'm serious! This really is amazing. If you watch the intro vid,
>>>> I almost inclined to think that just the ability to restore
>>>> layers after flattening a PSD file is worth it!
>>>> You can use it for billing because it tracks your time, you can
>>>> see all the files that make up another file, it won't let you
>>>> delete a file that's an element of another file.
>>>> And $100 off seems a generous offer to me.
>>>> Keith
>>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 5:44 PM, Alan Smith wrote:
>>>>> Wow - that's wild... and I love the scottish accent on the video.
>>>>> From: Keith L Dvorak <sylvati...@voxsylvatici.com>
>>>>> To: MNSWF Group MNSWF <mnswf@googlegroups.com>; flas...@yahoogroups.com >>>>> ; Getting_Things_D...@yahoogroups.com; paperlessz...@yahoogroups.com
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 12:46:35 PM
>>>>> Subject: [mnswf] Gridiron Flow
>>>>> Gridiron Flow is now out of beta and available for purchase and
>>>>> download.
>>>>> To see the abilities of this amazing application, check out Dave
>>>>> Cross' intro in John Nack's blog. If you decide you like it,
>>>>> Deke McClelland has them offering a $100 off till midnight of
>>>>> July 3.
>>>>> The reviews are right: this is a game changer. Seriously. If you
>>>>> haven't been following it's development, watch the intro video.
>>>>> You'll even see that Flow now has a Flash Panel from within
>>>>> Photoshop and Illustrator (he didn't mention InDesign or Flash).
>>>>> While it's clearly targeting Adobe's CS4, the fact that it works
>>>>> with Word and Excel and Pages and Numbers makes this great for
>>>>> your non-design work! Heck, even Notepad and TextEdit are support.
>>>>> Supported Applications:
>>>>> Adobe Acrobat 8,9
>>>>> Adobe After Effects CS3,CS4
>>>>> Adobe Bridge CS3,CS4
>>>>> Adobe Dreamweaver CS3,CS4
>>>>> Adobe Encore CS3,CS4
>>>>> Adobe Fireworks CS3,CS4
>>>>> Adobe Flash CS3,CS4
>>>>> Adobe Illustrator CS3,CS4
>>>>> Adobe InDesign CS3,CS4
>>>>> Adobe Photoshop CS3,CS4
>>>>> Adobe Premiere Pro CS3,CS4
>>>>> Adobe Soundbooth CS3,CS4
>>>>> Adobe Media Encoder CS4
>>>>> Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 and later
>>>>> Keynote '08,'09
>>>>> Numbers '08,'09
>>>>> Pages '08,'09
>>>>> Preview
>>>>> Motion '08
>>>>> Soundtrack Pro 2
>>>>> Compressor
>>>>> Microsoft Excel 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
>>>>> Microsoft PowerPoint 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
>>>>> Microsoft Word 2007 (win) 2008 (mac) and later
>>>>> Notepad
>>>>> Quicktime Player
>>>>> Text Edit
>>>>> Shake
>>>>> Cinema 4D
>>>>> Nuke
>>>>> Finder
>>>>> Explorer
>>>>> I hope you'll forgive the cross-posting, but this seems like the
>>>>> kind of thing that should be built in at the OS level!
So it sounds like it for disorganized individuals and not so much for
teams.
What would be cool, and maybe it does this or they are heading in this
direction, is if it did all that it does but as a server based
product... you know like Subversion or Mercurial or whatever you use,
but automagically... like ... this product does. See when I hear
about what it does I think cool, but not for me, for all the fools I
work with that lose shit. But the problem with that even is that I'm
a consultant, and most of the designers and developers I work with are
either also independent or work for my clients. So how do I get them
to use this? See the problem isn't me (well it might be, but I'm a
god in my world) it's everyone else (well not everyone, MK is perfect).
So I think my point is, how does Flow handle when the file is worked
on by another user on a different machine, with or without Flow
installed? And I don't mean on a shared drive, it looks like they
have that covered, but an external resource... like you email the file
to a Mad Scientist in Duluth and they send it back with some changes.
Can it be reintegrated? If they have Flow can it track their
changes? Where is the version info stored?
I just might have to buy this and see it in action. Damn it Keith, I
didn't want to spend any more money on software until Flash Builder is
released ;)
On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
> Yes, it's certainly aimed at designers, but since so many on this
> list work not only with Flex, but Flash and Photoshop and
> Illustrator, or designers or design teams, I thought it worth sharing.
> Paul is correct: you cannot unflatten a PS file that was flattened
> on someone else's machine.
> I'm of two minds re the "bad habits" comment. I've always been
> pretty anal about my folder structure and file naming conventions.
> And often I think "why can't people be more like me?" Seriously.
> Why? But the world is littered with the remains of ideas of people
> who wondered why "everyone else" didn't just march to the beat of
> that drum. </Betamax> And there flourishes in this world ideas that
> accepted people where they were at in their habits and went with the
> flow. I would argue that that's a particular strength of the
> Founding Fathers: They didn't write a constitution for how we should
> be, but rather how we are.
> On the other hand, creative people produce some amazing things. Who
> am I to argue with their method? Maybe it's part and parcel; a whole
> package sort of deal, pro and con, yin and yang, good with the bad?
> Should it be other than the way it is? Maybe. Is it? No. Can you
> change it? 10,000+ years and counting for those who've tried.
> But even if one convinced designers of the truth of reforming their
> bad habits, there are still accidents. You can flatten that PS file
> as even as your inner self is screaming "WTF are you doing?!" ("F" =
> frak, because I'm a Cylon.)
> And even if you have the best file system out there, and you're one
> of the blessed who don't make mistakes, the client will still come
> to you several weeks down the road and say "We liked the green one
> better after all. Please change it back to that version." <click>
> (Did you hang up? No, I just said "click.")
> That leaves mind reading. 800.555.1212. Our trained mind readers are
> standing by to help with that client.
> I don't feel rained upon. I think you make great points. And the
> product is certainly not courting code monkeys. But, I think it
> might just be a hit with its intended audience! :-)
> Keith
> On Jul 1, 2009, at 9:24 PM, Alan Smith wrote:
>> I'm working with a creative department that could definitely
>> benefit from a lot of this functionality. I would agree that its
>> target audience is prob on the design side. My reservation is over
>> the price - even with the discount, that is a fair chunk of change.
>> My comment about the scottish accent was (mostly) sincere - >> reminds of my grandparents... Ciamar a tha thu!
>> From: Paul Decoursey <p...@decoursey.net>
>> To: mnswf@googlegroups.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 7:50:31 PM
>> Subject: [mnswf] Re: Gridiron Flow
>> Sounds cool I guess. I don't know how much I would gain from it. >> I keep my files fairly well organized and I do hourly backups of
>> all files. Asset Tracking sounds great, but only really when I'm
>> working on other people files, can it go in after the fact and do
>> this? Same with undo flattening a photoshop file, only of interest
>> for when I get a flattened file from a designer, but I'm guessing
>> it won't really help then.
>> I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but some of this kind of
>> sounds like an excuse for people to continue in their bad habits. >> There are some features that sound good, but I don't think it's
>> worth the overhead. This sounds more like a designers tool to me.
>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 7:28 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
>>> Really? I've been following the development of this app for almost
>>> two years now, so perhaps I've assumed more was present in the
>>> intro than was there. If so, my apologies. You can go to the
>>> product's main page and watch their introductory video or the
>>> features page (Workflow Maps, Real-time Asset Tracking, Visual
>>> Versioning, Time Tracking, etc) for those videos, and there are
>>> other pages too, easily found by the navigation panel on the left.
>>> Perhaps that gives a fuller picture. As the Dave Cross video says,
>>> though, for many, just the ability to undo flattening a Photoshop
>>> file is a huge deal.
>>> Install it and forget about it. You work the way you want to work,
>>> without having to change any habits.
>>> Let's say you're working on an InDesign document for an Annual
>>> Report. You have a Word/Page/Notepad/TextEdit file for the text.
>>> You have 20 screenshot files you edited in Photoshop, each a
>>> separate file. You also have Board Member and employee photos.
>>> There is also the cover you created using 48 layers. You created
>>> an infographic in Illustrator. You generated some spreadsheets in
>>> Excel/Numbers. When you were finished with the document, you had
>>> one layer for English, one for French, and one for Japanese. You
>>> exported the finished document to PDF and XML and HTML and Flash.
>>> While you're cleaning up at the end of the project, you go to
>>> delete a screenshot file you think you didn't use (but you did).
>>> Flow will warn you that you're about to delete a file linked to
>>> your InDesign finished file.
>>> You know you saved the files on an external drive but can't recall
>>> which one. Flow knows.
>>> You think you're done and flatten the Photoshop file of the cover.
>>> A week later, the client asks you to adjust the color or move an
>>> element. Flow, with one click, returns you to the previous version
>>> with layers. This alone is amazing. There is no undo to restore
>>> layers to Photoshop file.
>>> You can't for the life of you remember the file name for the
>>> employee photo of that amazing photo with Mt Fuji in the
>>> background, but you remember that it had a layer called "mtfuji."
>>> You search in Flow and there it is.
>>> You're attending yet another meeting with client and they tell you
>>> that while they love what you've done and they thank for you
>>> incorporating every change they've requested, they tell you that
>>> they really do prefer the "green" cover which was four iterations
>>> back. You open Flow and return to that version.
>>> You're preparing the bill (with a huge penalty for that "green"
>>> cover stunt they just pulled) and you want to know who much time
>>> you spent on each file. Flow shows you how much time you spent
>>> working on ever file.
>>> Keith
>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 6:56 PM, Paul Decoursey wrote:
>>>> I looked at the intro but I'm still not exactly sure what it does
>>>> or why I'd want/need it.
>>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 5:54 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
>>>>> I'm serious! This really is amazing. If you watch the intro vid,
>>>>> I almost inclined to think that just the ability to restore
>>>>> layers after flattening a PSD file is worth it!
>>>>> You can use it for billing because it tracks your time, you can
>>>>> see all the files that make up another file, it won't let you
>>>>> delete a file that's an element of another file.
>>>>> And $100 off seems a generous offer to me.
>>>>> Keith
>>>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 5:44 PM, Alan Smith wrote:
>>>>>> Wow - that's wild... and I love the scottish accent on the
>>>>>> video.
>>>>>> From: Keith L Dvorak <sylvati...@voxsylvatici.com>
>>>>>> To: MNSWF Group MNSWF <mnswf@googlegroups.com>; flas...@yahoogroups.com >>>>>> ; Getting_Things_D...@yahoogroups.com; paperlessz...@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 12:46:35 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [mnswf] Gridiron Flow
>>>>>> Gridiron Flow is now out of beta and available for purchase and
>>>>>> download.
>>>>>> To see the abilities of this amazing application, check out
>>>>>> Dave Cross' intro in John Nack's blog. If you decide you like
>>>>>> it, Deke McClelland has them offering a $100 off till midnight
>>>>>> of July 3.
>>>>>> The reviews are right: this is a game changer. Seriously. If
>>>>>> you haven't been following it's development, watch the intro
>>>>>> video. You'll even see that Flow now has a Flash Panel from
>>>>>> within Photoshop and Illustrator (he
On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:50 PM, Paul Decoursey wrote:
> So it sounds like it for disorganized individuals and not so much
> for teams.
I believe at the moment (v1) it's aimed at individuals and possibly
small teams. If you listen to the audio podcast where Deke McClelland
talks with Flow's Project Manager, Karen Gauthier, you'll hear them
discuss covering larger teams and groups in v2.
You'll also hear an interesting anecdote where a client sent Karen a
file with a missing element. Because of the amazing digging into file
formats by Flow's coders, she was able to call the customer and say
"you forgot to include file N, located on name\directory\subdirectory \filename.xyz. That's pretty cool in itself, I think.
> What would be cool, and maybe it does this or they are heading in
> this direction, is if it did all that it does but as a server based
> product... you know like Subversion or Mercurial or whatever you
> use, but automagically... like ... this product does.
I think it's close to that now, and likely will be there in the next
version, but again, listen to the podcast to hear about that (it's
near the end, and nothing in great detail, so perhaps not worth the
time?).
> See when I hear about what it does I think cool, but not for me,
> for all the fools I work with that lose shit. But the problem with
> that even is that I'm a consultant, and most of the designers and
> developers I work with are either also independent or work for my
> clients. So how do I get them to use this? See the problem isn't me
> (well it might be, but I'm a god in my world) it's everyone else
> (well not everyone, MK is perfect).
My initials are KD. ;-)
From my limited perspective, people who use CS4 and people at Adobe
are quite excited about this product. Perhaps if you show it to them,
they'll buy it. If not, there's always "the way we're doing it already."
> So I think my point is, how does Flow handle when the file is worked
> on by another user on a different machine, with or without Flow
> installed? And I don't mean on a shared drive, it looks like they
> have that covered, but an external resource... like you email the
> file to a Mad Scientist in Duluth and they send it back with some
> changes. Can it be reintegrated? If they have Flow can it track
> their changes? Where is the version info stored?
I think the info is stored locally, so, I'm not quite sure about
multiple users; I should really look more into that, but as a single
user, I'm less interested in that at the moment.
> I just might have to buy this and see it in action. Damn it Keith,
> I didn't want to spend any more money on software until Flash
> Builder is released ;)
Good news: download the trial version instead! :-)
> On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
>> Yes, it's certainly aimed at designers, but since so many on this
>> list work not only with Flex, but Flash and Photoshop and
>> Illustrator, or designers or design teams, I thought it worth
>> sharing.
>> Paul is correct: you cannot unflatten a PS file that was flattened
>> on someone else's machine.
>> I'm of two minds re the "bad habits" comment. I've always been
>> pretty anal about my folder structure and file naming conventions.
>> And often I think "why can't people be more like me?" Seriously.
>> Why? But the world is littered with the remains of ideas of people
>> who wondered why "everyone else" didn't just march to the beat of
>> that drum. </Betamax> And there flourishes in this world ideas that
>> accepted people where they were at in their habits and went with
>> the flow. I would argue that that's a particular strength of the
>> Founding Fathers: They didn't write a constitution for how we
>> should be, but rather how we are.
>> On the other hand, creative people produce some amazing things. Who
>> am I to argue with their method? Maybe it's part and parcel; a
>> whole package sort of deal, pro and con, yin and yang, good with
>> the bad? Should it be other than the way it is? Maybe. Is it? No.
>> Can you change it? 10,000+ years and counting for those who've tried.
>> But even if one convinced designers of the truth of reforming their
>> bad habits, there are still accidents. You can flatten that PS file
>> as even as your inner self is screaming "WTF are you doing?!" ("F"
>> = frak, because I'm a Cylon.)
>> And even if you have the best file system out there, and you're one
>> of the blessed who don't make mistakes, the client will still come
>> to you several weeks down the road and say "We liked the green one
>> better after all. Please change it back to that version." <click>
>> (Did you hang up? No, I just said "click.")
>> That leaves mind reading. 800.555.1212. Our trained mind readers
>> are standing by to help with that client.
>> I don't feel rained upon. I think you make great points. And the
>> product is certainly not courting code monkeys. But, I think it
>> might just be a hit with its intended audience! :-)
>> Keith
>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 9:24 PM, Alan Smith wrote:
>>> I'm working with a creative department that could definitely
>>> benefit from a lot of this functionality. I would agree that its
>>> target audience is prob on the design side. My reservation is over
>>> the price - even with the discount, that is a fair chunk of change.
>>> My comment about the scottish accent was (mostly) sincere - >>> reminds of my grandparents... Ciamar a tha thu!
>>> From: Paul Decoursey <p...@decoursey.net>
>>> To: mnswf@googlegroups.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 7:50:31 PM
>>> Subject: [mnswf] Re: Gridiron Flow
>>> Sounds cool I guess. I don't know how much I would gain from it. >>> I keep my files fairly well organized and I do hourly backups of
>>> all files. Asset Tracking sounds great, but only really when I'm
>>> working on other people files, can it go in after the fact and do
>>> this? Same with undo flattening a photoshop file, only of
>>> interest for when I get a flattened file from a designer, but I'm
>>> guessing it won't really help then.
>>> I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but some of this kind of
>>> sounds like an excuse for people to continue in their bad habits. >>> There are some features that sound good, but I don't think it's
>>> worth the overhead. This sounds more like a designers tool to me.
>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 7:28 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
>>>> Really? I've been following the development of this app for
>>>> almost two years now, so perhaps I've assumed more was present in
>>>> the intro than was there. If so, my apologies. You can go to the
>>>> product's main page and watch their introductory video or the
>>>> features page (Workflow Maps, Real-time Asset Tracking, Visual
>>>> Versioning, Time Tracking, etc) for those videos, and there are
>>>> other pages too, easily found by the navigation panel on the
>>>> left. Perhaps that gives a fuller picture. As the Dave Cross
>>>> video says, though, for many, just the ability to undo flattening
>>>> a Photoshop file is a huge deal.
>>>> Install it and forget about it. You work the way you want to
>>>> work, without having to change any habits.
>>>> Let's say you're working on an InDesign document for an Annual
>>>> Report. You have a Word/Page/Notepad/TextEdit file for the text.
>>>> You have 20 screenshot files you edited in Photoshop, each a
>>>> separate file. You also have Board Member and employee photos.
>>>> There is also the cover you created using 48 layers. You created
>>>> an infographic in Illustrator. You generated some spreadsheets in
>>>> Excel/Numbers. When you were finished with the document, you had
>>>> one layer for English, one for French, and one for Japanese. You
>>>> exported the finished document to PDF and XML and HTML and Flash.
>>>> While you're cleaning up at the end of the project, you go to
>>>> delete a screenshot file you think you didn't use (but you did).
>>>> Flow will warn you that you're about to delete a file linked to
>>>> your InDesign finished file.
>>>> You know you saved the files on an external drive but can't
>>>> recall which one. Flow knows.
>>>> You think you're done and flatten the Photoshop file of the
>>>> cover. A week later, the client asks you to adjust the color or
>>>> move an element. Flow, with one click, returns you to the
>>>> previous version with layers. This alone is amazing. There is no
>>>> undo to restore layers to Photoshop file.
>>>> You can't for the life of you remember the file name for the
>>>> employee photo of that amazing photo with Mt Fuji in the
>>>> background, but you remember that it had a layer called "mtfuji."
>>>> You search in Flow and there it is.
>>>> You're attending yet another meeting with client and they tell
>>>> you that while they love what you've done and they thank for you
>>>> incorporating every change they've requested, they tell you that
>>>> they really do prefer the "green" cover which was four iterations
>>>> back. You open Flow and return to that version.
>>>> You're preparing the bill (with a huge penalty for that "green"
>>>> cover stunt they just pulled) and you want to know who much time
>>>> you spent on each file. Flow shows you how much time you spent
>>>> working on ever file.
>>>> Keith
>>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 6:56 PM, Paul Decoursey wrote:
>>>>> I looked at the intro but I'm still not exactly sure what it
>>>>> does or why I'd want/need it.
Defiantly a designers tool. There doesn't seem to be any class
introspection at all. I created a FLA and it tracked assets for it,
but no classes for the assets. This was AS2 though, so maybe it can
only do it with AS3, I can try that later.
I'm still not convinced, and I think that I'm only interested in it
because I'm a data junkie and I like charts and graphs... I should
have kept doing UX and IA.
On Jul 2, 2009, at 12:04 AM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
> On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:50 PM, Paul Decoursey wrote:
>> So it sounds like it for disorganized individuals and not so much
>> for teams.
> I believe at the moment (v1) it's aimed at individuals and possibly
> small teams. If you listen to the audio podcast where Deke
> McClelland talks with Flow's Project Manager, Karen Gauthier, you'll
> hear them discuss covering larger teams and groups in v2.
> You'll also hear an interesting anecdote where a client sent Karen a
> file with a missing element. Because of the amazing digging into
> file formats by Flow's coders, she was able to call the customer and
> say "you forgot to include file N, located on name\directory > \subdirectory\filename.xyz. That's pretty cool in itself, I think.
>> What would be cool, and maybe it does this or they are heading in
>> this direction, is if it did all that it does but as a server based
>> product... you know like Subversion or Mercurial or whatever you
>> use, but automagically... like ... this product does.
> I think it's close to that now, and likely will be there in the next
> version, but again, listen to the podcast to hear about that (it's
> near the end, and nothing in great detail, so perhaps not worth the
> time?).
>> See when I hear about what it does I think cool, but not for me,
>> for all the fools I work with that lose shit. But the problem with
>> that even is that I'm a consultant, and most of the designers and
>> developers I work with are either also independent or work for my
>> clients. So how do I get them to use this? See the problem isn't
>> me (well it might be, but I'm a god in my world) it's everyone else
>> (well not everyone, MK is perfect).
> My initials are KD. ;-)
> From my limited perspective, people who use CS4 and people at Adobe
> are quite excited about this product. Perhaps if you show it to
> them, they'll buy it. If not, there's always "the way we're doing it
> already."
>> So I think my point is, how does Flow handle when the file is
>> worked on by another user on a different machine, with or without
>> Flow installed? And I don't mean on a shared drive, it looks like
>> they have that covered, but an external resource... like you email
>> the file to a Mad Scientist in Duluth and they send it back with
>> some changes. Can it be reintegrated? If they have Flow can it
>> track their changes? Where is the version info stored?
> I think the info is stored locally, so, I'm not quite sure about
> multiple users; I should really look more into that, but as a single
> user, I'm less interested in that at the moment.
>> I just might have to buy this and see it in action. Damn it Keith,
>> I didn't want to spend any more money on software until Flash
>> Builder is released ;)
> Good news: download the trial version instead! :-)
> Keith
>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
>>> Yes, it's certainly aimed at designers, but since so many on this
>>> list work not only with Flex, but Flash and Photoshop and
>>> Illustrator, or designers or design teams, I thought it worth
>>> sharing.
>>> Paul is correct: you cannot unflatten a PS file that was flattened
>>> on someone else's machine.
>>> I'm of two minds re the "bad habits" comment. I've always been
>>> pretty anal about my folder structure and file naming conventions.
>>> And often I think "why can't people be more like me?" Seriously.
>>> Why? But the world is littered with the remains of ideas of people
>>> who wondered why "everyone else" didn't just march to the beat of
>>> that drum. </Betamax> And there flourishes in this world ideas
>>> that accepted people where they were at in their habits and went
>>> with the flow. I would argue that that's a particular strength of
>>> the Founding Fathers: They didn't write a constitution for how we
>>> should be, but rather how we are.
>>> On the other hand, creative people produce some amazing things.
>>> Who am I to argue with their method? Maybe it's part and parcel; a
>>> whole package sort of deal, pro and con, yin and yang, good with
>>> the bad? Should it be other than the way it is? Maybe. Is it? No.
>>> Can you change it? 10,000+ years and counting for those who've
>>> tried.
>>> But even if one convinced designers of the truth of reforming
>>> their bad habits, there are still accidents. You can flatten that
>>> PS file as even as your inner self is screaming "WTF are you
>>> doing?!" ("F" = frak, because I'm a Cylon.)
>>> And even if you have the best file system out there, and you're
>>> one of the blessed who don't make mistakes, the client will still
>>> come to you several weeks down the road and say "We liked the
>>> green one better after all. Please change it back to that
>>> version." <click> (Did you hang up? No, I just said "click.")
>>> That leaves mind reading. 800.555.1212. Our trained mind readers
>>> are standing by to help with that client.
>>> I don't feel rained upon. I think you make great points. And the
>>> product is certainly not courting code monkeys. But, I think it
>>> might just be a hit with its intended audience! :-)
>>> Keith
>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 9:24 PM, Alan Smith wrote:
>>>> I'm working with a creative department that could definitely
>>>> benefit from a lot of this functionality. I would agree that its
>>>> target audience is prob on the design side. My reservation is
>>>> over the price - even with the discount, that is a fair chunk of
>>>> change.
>>>> My comment about the scottish accent was (mostly) sincere - >>>> reminds of my grandparents... Ciamar a tha thu!
>>>> From: Paul Decoursey <p...@decoursey.net>
>>>> To: mnswf@googlegroups.com
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 7:50:31 PM
>>>> Subject: [mnswf] Re: Gridiron Flow
>>>> Sounds cool I guess. I don't know how much I would gain from
>>>> it. I keep my files fairly well organized and I do hourly
>>>> backups of all files. Asset Tracking sounds great, but only
>>>> really when I'm working on other people files, can it go in after
>>>> the fact and do this? Same with undo flattening a photoshop
>>>> file, only of interest for when I get a flattened file from a
>>>> designer, but I'm guessing it won't really help then.
>>>> I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but some of this kind of
>>>> sounds like an excuse for people to continue in their bad
>>>> habits. There are some features that sound good, but I don't
>>>> think it's worth the overhead. This sounds more like a designers
>>>> tool to me.
>>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 7:28 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
>>>>> Really? I've been following the development of this app for
>>>>> almost two years now, so perhaps I've assumed more was present
>>>>> in the intro than was there. If so, my apologies. You can go to
>>>>> the product's main page and watch their introductory video or
>>>>> the features page (Workflow Maps, Real-time Asset Tracking,
>>>>> Visual Versioning, Time Tracking, etc) for those videos, and
>>>>> there are other pages too, easily found by the navigation panel
>>>>> on the left. Perhaps that gives a fuller picture. As the Dave
>>>>> Cross video says, though, for many, just the ability to undo
>>>>> flattening a Photoshop file is a huge deal.
>>>>> Install it and forget about it. You work the way you want to
>>>>> work, without having to change any habits.
>>>>> Let's say you're working on an InDesign document for an Annual
>>>>> Report. You have a Word/Page/Notepad/TextEdit file for the text.
>>>>> You have 20 screenshot files you edited in Photoshop, each a
>>>>> separate file. You also have Board Member and employee photos.
>>>>> There is also the cover you created using 48 layers. You created
>>>>> an infographic in Illustrator. You generated some spreadsheets
>>>>> in Excel/Numbers. When you were finished with the document, you
>>>>> had one layer for English, one for French, and one for Japanese.
>>>>> You exported the finished document to PDF and XML and HTML and
>>>>> Flash.
>>>>> While you're cleaning up at the end of the project, you go to
>>>>> delete a screenshot file you think you didn't use (but you did).
>>>>> Flow will warn you that you're about to delete a file linked to
>>>>> your InDesign finished file.
>>>>> You know you saved the files on an external drive but can't
>>>>> recall which one. Flow knows.
>>>>> You think you're done and flatten the Photoshop file of the
>>>>> cover. A week later, the client asks you to adjust the color or
>>>>> move an element. Flow, with one click, returns you to the
>>>>> previous version with layers. This alone is amazing. There is no
>>>>> undo to restore layers to Photoshop file.
>>>>> You can't for the life of you remember the file name for the
>>>>> employee photo of that amazing photo with Mt Fuji in the
>>>>> background, but you remember that it had a layer called
>>>>> "mtfuji." You search in Flow and there it is.
>>>>> You're attending yet another meeting with client and they tell
>>>>> you that while they love what
Yes, it is a designer tool for sure. You might be right, though, about
AS3 v AS2: I notice the programs supported are CS3 and CS4. I can't
recall when AS3 took over (not till CS4?).
Perhaps v2 will support Flash Builder and Catalyst and teams.
Cool that you used to do that. I should buy you a drink and pick your
brain! :-)
> Defiantly a designers tool. There doesn't seem to be any class
> introspection at all. I created a FLA and it tracked assets for it,
> but no classes for the assets. This was AS2 though, so maybe it can
> only do it with AS3, I can try that later.
> I'm still not convinced, and I think that I'm only interested in it
> because I'm a data junkie and I like charts and graphs... I should
> have kept doing UX and IA.
> On Jul 2, 2009, at 12:04 AM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
>> Paul,
>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:50 PM, Paul Decoursey wrote:
>>> So it sounds like it for disorganized individuals and not so much
>>> for teams.
>> I believe at the moment (v1) it's aimed at individuals and possibly
>> small teams. If you listen to the audio podcast where Deke
>> McClelland talks with Flow's Project Manager, Karen Gauthier,
>> you'll hear them discuss covering larger teams and groups in v2.
>> You'll also hear an interesting anecdote where a client sent Karen
>> a file with a missing element. Because of the amazing digging into
>> file formats by Flow's coders, she was able to call the customer
>> and say "you forgot to include file N, located on name\directory >> \subdirectory\filename.xyz. That's pretty cool in itself, I think.
>>> What would be cool, and maybe it does this or they are heading in
>>> this direction, is if it did all that it does but as a server
>>> based product... you know like Subversion or Mercurial or whatever
>>> you use, but automagically... like ... this product does.
>> I think it's close to that now, and likely will be there in the
>> next version, but again, listen to the podcast to hear about that
>> (it's near the end, and nothing in great detail, so perhaps not
>> worth the time?).
>>> See when I hear about what it does I think cool, but not for me,
>>> for all the fools I work with that lose shit. But the problem
>>> with that even is that I'm a consultant, and most of the designers
>>> and developers I work with are either also independent or work for
>>> my clients. So how do I get them to use this? See the problem
>>> isn't me (well it might be, but I'm a god in my world) it's
>>> everyone else (well not everyone, MK is perfect).
>> My initials are KD. ;-)
>> From my limited perspective, people who use CS4 and people at Adobe
>> are quite excited about this product. Perhaps if you show it to
>> them, they'll buy it. If not, there's always "the way we're doing
>> it already."
>>> So I think my point is, how does Flow handle when the file is
>>> worked on by another user on a different machine, with or without
>>> Flow installed? And I don't mean on a shared drive, it looks like
>>> they have that covered, but an external resource... like you email
>>> the file to a Mad Scientist in Duluth and they send it back with
>>> some changes. Can it be reintegrated? If they have Flow can it
>>> track their changes? Where is the version info stored?
>> I think the info is stored locally, so, I'm not quite sure about
>> multiple users; I should really look more into that, but as a
>> single user, I'm less interested in that at the moment.
>>> I just might have to buy this and see it in action. Damn it
>>> Keith, I didn't want to spend any more money on software until
>>> Flash Builder is released ;)
>> Good news: download the trial version instead! :-)
>> Keith
>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
>>>> Yes, it's certainly aimed at designers, but since so many on this
>>>> list work not only with Flex, but Flash and Photoshop and
>>>> Illustrator, or designers or design teams, I thought it worth
>>>> sharing.
>>>> Paul is correct: you cannot unflatten a PS file that was
>>>> flattened on someone else's machine.
>>>> I'm of two minds re the "bad habits" comment. I've always been
>>>> pretty anal about my folder structure and file naming
>>>> conventions. And often I think "why can't people be more like
>>>> me?" Seriously. Why? But the world is littered with the remains
>>>> of ideas of people who wondered why "everyone else" didn't just
>>>> march to the beat of that drum. </Betamax> And there flourishes
>>>> in this world ideas that accepted people where they were at in
>>>> their habits and went with the flow. I would argue that that's a
>>>> particular strength of the Founding Fathers: They didn't write a
>>>> constitution for how we should be, but rather how we are.
>>>> On the other hand, creative people produce some amazing things.
>>>> Who am I to argue with their method? Maybe it's part and parcel;
>>>> a whole package sort of deal, pro and con, yin and yang, good
>>>> with the bad? Should it be other than the way it is? Maybe. Is
>>>> it? No. Can you change it? 10,000+ years and counting for those
>>>> who've tried.
>>>> But even if one convinced designers of the truth of reforming
>>>> their bad habits, there are still accidents. You can flatten that
>>>> PS file as even as your inner self is screaming "WTF are you
>>>> doing?!" ("F" = frak, because I'm a Cylon.)
>>>> And even if you have the best file system out there, and you're
>>>> one of the blessed who don't make mistakes, the client will still
>>>> come to you several weeks down the road and say "We liked the
>>>> green one better after all. Please change it back to that
>>>> version." <click> (Did you hang up? No, I just said "click.")
>>>> That leaves mind reading. 800.555.1212. Our trained mind readers
>>>> are standing by to help with that client.
>>>> I don't feel rained upon. I think you make great points. And the
>>>> product is certainly not courting code monkeys. But, I think it
>>>> might just be a hit with its intended audience! :-)
>>>> Keith
>>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 9:24 PM, Alan Smith wrote:
>>>>> I'm working with a creative department that could definitely
>>>>> benefit from a lot of this functionality. I would agree that its
>>>>> target audience is prob on the design side. My reservation is
>>>>> over the price - even with the discount, that is a fair chunk of
>>>>> change.
>>>>> My comment about the scottish accent was (mostly) sincere - >>>>> reminds of my grandparents... Ciamar a tha thu!
>>>>> From: Paul Decoursey <p...@decoursey.net>
>>>>> To: mnswf@googlegroups.com
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 7:50:31 PM
>>>>> Subject: [mnswf] Re: Gridiron Flow
>>>>> Sounds cool I guess. I don't know how much I would gain from
>>>>> it. I keep my files fairly well organized and I do hourly
>>>>> backups of all files. Asset Tracking sounds great, but only
>>>>> really when I'm working on other people files, can it go in
>>>>> after the fact and do this? Same with undo flattening a
>>>>> photoshop file, only of interest for when I get a flattened file
>>>>> from a designer, but I'm guessing it won't really help then.
>>>>> I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but some of this kind
>>>>> of sounds like an excuse for people to continue in their bad
>>>>> habits. There are some features that sound good, but I don't
>>>>> think it's worth the overhead. This sounds more like a
>>>>> designers tool to me.
>>>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 7:28 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
>>>>>> Really? I've been following the development of this app for
>>>>>> almost two years now, so perhaps I've assumed more was present
>>>>>> in the intro than was there. If so, my apologies. You can go to
>>>>>> the product's main page and watch their introductory video or
>>>>>> the features page (Workflow Maps, Real-time Asset Tracking,
>>>>>> Visual Versioning, Time Tracking, etc) for those videos, and
>>>>>> there are other pages too, easily found by the navigation panel
>>>>>> on the left. Perhaps that gives a fuller picture. As the Dave
>>>>>> Cross video says, though, for many, just the ability to undo
>>>>>> flattening a Photoshop file is a huge deal.
>>>>>> Install it and forget about it. You work the way you want to
>>>>>> work, without having to change any habits.
>>>>>> Let's say you're working on an InDesign document for an Annual
>>>>>> Report. You have a Word/Page/Notepad/TextEdit file for the
>>>>>> text. You have 20 screenshot files you edited in Photoshop,
>>>>>> each a separate file. You also have Board Member and employee
>>>>>> photos. There is also the cover you created using 48 layers.
>>>>>> You created an infographic in Illustrator. You generated some
>>>>>> spreadsheets in Excel/Numbers. When you were finished with the
>>>>>> document, you had one layer for English, one for French, and
>>>>>> one for Japanese. You exported the finished document to PDF and
>>>>>> XML and HTML and Flash.
>>>>>> While you're cleaning up at the end of the project, you go to
>>>>>> delete a screenshot file you think you didn't use (but you
>>>>>> did). Flow will warn you that you're about to delete a file
>>>>>> linked to your InDesign finished file.
>>>>>> You know you saved the files on an external drive but can't
>>>>>> recall which one. Flow knows.
>>>>>> You think you're done and flatten the Photoshop file of the
>>>>>> cover. A week later, the
AS3 came in CS3. AS2 is a but more difficult to parse, it would be
understandable if they didn't have support for it. But AS2 is
generally what designers use, so this seems like an oversight to me.
> Yes, it is a designer tool for sure. You might be right, though,
> about AS3 v AS2: I notice the programs supported are CS3 and CS4. I
> can't recall when AS3 took over (not till CS4?).
> Perhaps v2 will support Flash Builder and Catalyst and teams.
> Cool that you used to do that. I should buy you a drink and pick
> your brain! :-)
> Keith
> On Jul 2, 2009, at 8:52 AM, Paul Decoursey wrote:
>> Defiantly a designers tool. There doesn't seem to be any class
>> introspection at all. I created a FLA and it tracked assets for it,
>> but no classes for the assets. This was AS2 though, so maybe it
>> can only do it with AS3, I can try that later.
>> I'm still not convinced, and I think that I'm only interested in it
>> because I'm a data junkie and I like charts and graphs... I should
>> have kept doing UX and IA.
>> On Jul 2, 2009, at 12:04 AM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
>>> Paul,
>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:50 PM, Paul Decoursey wrote:
>>>> So it sounds like it for disorganized individuals and not so much
>>>> for teams.
>>> I believe at the moment (v1) it's aimed at individuals and
>>> possibly small teams. If you listen to the audio podcast where
>>> Deke McClelland talks with Flow's Project Manager, Karen Gauthier,
>>> you'll hear them discuss covering larger teams and groups in v2.
>>> You'll also hear an interesting anecdote where a client sent Karen
>>> a file with a missing element. Because of the amazing digging into
>>> file formats by Flow's coders, she was able to call the customer
>>> and say "you forgot to include file N, located on name\directory >>> \subdirectory\filename.xyz. That's pretty cool in itself, I think.
>>>> What would be cool, and maybe it does this or they are heading in
>>>> this direction, is if it did all that it does but as a server
>>>> based product... you know like Subversion or Mercurial or
>>>> whatever you use, but automagically... like ... this product does.
>>> I think it's close to that now, and likely will be there in the
>>> next version, but again, listen to the podcast to hear about that
>>> (it's near the end, and nothing in great detail, so perhaps not
>>> worth the time?).
>>>> See when I hear about what it does I think cool, but not for me,
>>>> for all the fools I work with that lose shit. But the problem
>>>> with that even is that I'm a consultant, and most of the
>>>> designers and developers I work with are either also independent
>>>> or work for my clients. So how do I get them to use this? See
>>>> the problem isn't me (well it might be, but I'm a god in my
>>>> world) it's everyone else (well not everyone, MK is perfect).
>>> My initials are KD. ;-)
>>> From my limited perspective, people who use CS4 and people at
>>> Adobe are quite excited about this product. Perhaps if you show it
>>> to them, they'll buy it. If not, there's always "the way we're
>>> doing it already."
>>>> So I think my point is, how does Flow handle when the file is
>>>> worked on by another user on a different machine, with or without
>>>> Flow installed? And I don't mean on a shared drive, it looks
>>>> like they have that covered, but an external resource... like you
>>>> email the file to a Mad Scientist in Duluth and they send it back
>>>> with some changes. Can it be reintegrated? If they have Flow
>>>> can it track their changes? Where is the version info stored?
>>> I think the info is stored locally, so, I'm not quite sure about
>>> multiple users; I should really look more into that, but as a
>>> single user, I'm less interested in that at the moment.
>>>> I just might have to buy this and see it in action. Damn it
>>>> Keith, I didn't want to spend any more money on software until
>>>> Flash Builder is released ;)
>>> Good news: download the trial version instead! :-)
>>> Keith
>>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
>>>>> Yes, it's certainly aimed at designers, but since so many on
>>>>> this list work not only with Flex, but Flash and Photoshop and
>>>>> Illustrator, or designers or design teams, I thought it worth
>>>>> sharing.
>>>>> Paul is correct: you cannot unflatten a PS file that was
>>>>> flattened on someone else's machine.
>>>>> I'm of two minds re the "bad habits" comment. I've always been
>>>>> pretty anal about my folder structure and file naming
>>>>> conventions. And often I think "why can't people be more like
>>>>> me?" Seriously. Why? But the world is littered with the remains
>>>>> of ideas of people who wondered why "everyone else" didn't just
>>>>> march to the beat of that drum. </Betamax> And there flourishes
>>>>> in this world ideas that accepted people where they were at in
>>>>> their habits and went with the flow. I would argue that that's a
>>>>> particular strength of the Founding Fathers: They didn't write a
>>>>> constitution for how we should be, but rather how we are.
>>>>> On the other hand, creative people produce some amazing things.
>>>>> Who am I to argue with their method? Maybe it's part and parcel;
>>>>> a whole package sort of deal, pro and con, yin and yang, good
>>>>> with the bad? Should it be other than the way it is? Maybe. Is
>>>>> it? No. Can you change it? 10,000+ years and counting for those
>>>>> who've tried.
>>>>> But even if one convinced designers of the truth of reforming
>>>>> their bad habits, there are still accidents. You can flatten
>>>>> that PS file as even as your inner self is screaming "WTF are
>>>>> you doing?!" ("F" = frak, because I'm a Cylon.)
>>>>> And even if you have the best file system out there, and you're
>>>>> one of the blessed who don't make mistakes, the client will
>>>>> still come to you several weeks down the road and say "We liked
>>>>> the green one better after all. Please change it back to that
>>>>> version." <click> (Did you hang up? No, I just said "click.")
>>>>> That leaves mind reading. 800.555.1212. Our trained mind readers
>>>>> are standing by to help with that client.
>>>>> I don't feel rained upon. I think you make great points. And the
>>>>> product is certainly not courting code monkeys. But, I think it
>>>>> might just be a hit with its intended audience! :-)
>>>>> Keith
>>>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 9:24 PM, Alan Smith wrote:
>>>>>> I'm working with a creative department that could definitely
>>>>>> benefit from a lot of this functionality. I would agree that
>>>>>> its target audience is prob on the design side. My reservation
>>>>>> is over the price - even with the discount, that is a fair
>>>>>> chunk of change.
>>>>>> My comment about the scottish accent was (mostly) sincere - >>>>>> reminds of my grandparents... Ciamar a tha thu!
>>>>>> From: Paul Decoursey <p...@decoursey.net>
>>>>>> To: mnswf@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 7:50:31 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [mnswf] Re: Gridiron Flow
>>>>>> Sounds cool I guess. I don't know how much I would gain from
>>>>>> it. I keep my files fairly well organized and I do hourly
>>>>>> backups of all files. Asset Tracking sounds great, but only
>>>>>> really when I'm working on other people files, can it go in
>>>>>> after the fact and do this? Same with undo flattening a
>>>>>> photoshop file, only of interest for when I get a flattened
>>>>>> file from a designer, but I'm guessing it won't really help then.
>>>>>> I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but some of this kind
>>>>>> of sounds like an excuse for people to continue in their bad
>>>>>> habits. There are some features that sound good, but I don't
>>>>>> think it's worth the overhead. This sounds more like a
>>>>>> designers tool to me.
>>>>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 7:28 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
>>>>>>> Really? I've been following the development of this app for
>>>>>>> almost two years now, so perhaps I've assumed more was present
>>>>>>> in the intro than was there. If so, my apologies. You can go
>>>>>>> to the product's main page and watch their introductory video
>>>>>>> or the features page (Workflow Maps, Real-time Asset Tracking,
>>>>>>> Visual Versioning, Time Tracking, etc) for those videos, and
>>>>>>> there are other pages too, easily found by the navigation
>>>>>>> panel on the left. Perhaps that gives a fuller picture. As the
>>>>>>> Dave Cross video says, though, for many, just the ability to
>>>>>>> undo flattening a Photoshop file is a huge deal.
>>>>>>> Install it and forget about it. You work the way you want to
>>>>>>> work, without having to change any habits.
>>>>>>> Let's say you're working on an InDesign document for an Annual
>>>>>>> Report. You have a Word/Page/Notepad/TextEdit file for the
>>>>>>> text. You have 20 screenshot files you edited in Photoshop,
>>>>>>> each a separate file. You also have Board Member and employee
>>>>>>> photos. There is also the cover you created using 48 layers.
>>>>>>> You created an infographic in Illustrator. You generated some
>>>>>>> spreadsheets in Excel/Numbers. When you were finished with the
>>>>>>> document, you had one layer for English, one for French, and
>>>>>>> one for Japanese. You exported the finished document to PDF
>>>>>>> and XML and HTML and Flash.
I was lucky enough to be in on one of the early concept presentation
meetings. I am the owner of 4 licenses (sales numbers 9 thru 11) for
my workstations. I got the early copies to be a beta tester, but they
could not help much since I was running 64 bit Vista it was not
supported at the time. I was not willing to gamble on beta software
running between the OS and my software. Coming out of the initial
meeting and demo, I (and they) was very jazzed about the programs
possibilities not just for the design community, but all business
applications.
On Jul 2, 8:59 am, Keith L Dvorak <sylvati...@voxsylvatici.com> wrote:
> Yes, it is a designer tool for sure. You might be right, though, about
> AS3 v AS2: I notice the programs supported are CS3 and CS4. I can't
> recall when AS3 took over (not till CS4?).
> Perhaps v2 will support Flash Builder and Catalyst and teams.
> Cool that you used to do that. I should buy you a drink and pick your
> brain! :-)
> Keith
> On Jul 2, 2009, at 8:52 AM, Paul Decoursey wrote:
> > Defiantly a designers tool. There doesn't seem to be any class
> > introspection at all. I created a FLA and it tracked assets for it,
> > but no classes for the assets. This was AS2 though, so maybe it can
> > only do it with AS3, I can try that later.
> > I'm still not convinced, and I think that I'm only interested in it
> > because I'm a data junkie and I like charts and graphs... I should
> > have kept doing UX and IA.
> > On Jul 2, 2009, at 12:04 AM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
> >> Paul,
> >> On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:50 PM, Paul Decoursey wrote:
> >>> So it sounds like it for disorganized individuals and not so much
> >>> for teams.
> >> I believe at the moment (v1) it's aimed at individuals and possibly
> >> small teams. If you listen to the audio podcast where Deke
> >> McClelland talks with Flow's Project Manager, Karen Gauthier,
> >> you'll hear them discuss covering larger teams and groups in v2.
> >> You'll also hear an interesting anecdote where a client sent Karen
> >> a file with a missing element. Because of the amazing digging into
> >> file formats by Flow's coders, she was able to call the customer
> >> and say "you forgot to include file N, located on name\directory
> >> \subdirectory\filename.xyz. That's pretty cool in itself, I think.
> >>> What would be cool, and maybe it does this or they are heading in
> >>> this direction, is if it did all that it does but as a server
> >>> based product... you know like Subversion or Mercurial or whatever
> >>> you use, but automagically... like ... this product does.
> >> I think it's close to that now, and likely will be there in the
> >> next version, but again, listen to the podcast to hear about that
> >> (it's near the end, and nothing in great detail, so perhaps not
> >> worth the time?).
> >>> See when I hear about what it does I think cool, but not for me,
> >>> for all the fools I work with that lose shit. But the problem
> >>> with that even is that I'm a consultant, and most of the designers
> >>> and developers I work with are either also independent or work for
> >>> my clients. So how do I get them to use this? See the problem
> >>> isn't me (well it might be, but I'm a god in my world) it's
> >>> everyone else (well not everyone, MK is perfect).
> >> My initials are KD. ;-)
> >> From my limited perspective, people who use CS4 and people at Adobe
> >> are quite excited about this product. Perhaps if you show it to
> >> them, they'll buy it. If not, there's always "the way we're doing
> >> it already."
> >>> So I think my point is, how does Flow handle when the file is
> >>> worked on by another user on a different machine, with or without
> >>> Flow installed? And I don't mean on a shared drive, it looks like
> >>> they have that covered, but an external resource... like you email
> >>> the file to a Mad Scientist in Duluth and they send it back with
> >>> some changes. Can it be reintegrated? If they have Flow can it
> >>> track their changes? Where is the version info stored?
> >> I think the info is stored locally, so, I'm not quite sure about
> >> multiple users; I should really look more into that, but as a
> >> single user, I'm less interested in that at the moment.
> >>> I just might have to buy this and see it in action. Damn it
> >>> Keith, I didn't want to spend any more money on software until
> >>> Flash Builder is released ;)
> >> Good news: download the trial version instead! :-)
> >> Keith
> >>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
> >>>> Yes, it's certainly aimed at designers, but since so many on this
> >>>> list work not only with Flex, but Flash and Photoshop and
> >>>> Illustrator, or designers or design teams, I thought it worth
> >>>> sharing.
> >>>> Paul is correct: you cannot unflatten a PS file that was
> >>>> flattened on someone else's machine.
> >>>> I'm of two minds re the "bad habits" comment. I've always been
> >>>> pretty anal about my folder structure and file naming
> >>>> conventions. And often I think "why can't people be more like
> >>>> me?" Seriously. Why? But the world is littered with the remains
> >>>> of ideas of people who wondered why "everyone else" didn't just
> >>>> march to the beat of that drum. </Betamax> And there flourishes
> >>>> in this world ideas that accepted people where they were at in
> >>>> their habits and went with the flow. I would argue that that's a
> >>>> particular strength of the Founding Fathers: They didn't write a
> >>>> constitution for how we should be, but rather how we are.
> >>>> On the other hand, creative people produce some amazing things.
> >>>> Who am I to argue with their method? Maybe it's part and parcel;
> >>>> a whole package sort of deal, pro and con, yin and yang, good
> >>>> with the bad? Should it be other than the way it is? Maybe. Is
> >>>> it? No. Can you change it? 10,000+ years and counting for those
> >>>> who've tried.
> >>>> But even if one convinced designers of the truth of reforming
> >>>> their bad habits, there are still accidents. You can flatten that
> >>>> PS file as even as your inner self is screaming "WTF are you
> >>>> doing?!" ("F" = frak, because I'm a Cylon.)
> >>>> And even if you have the best file system out there, and you're
> >>>> one of the blessed who don't make mistakes, the client will still
> >>>> come to you several weeks down the road and say "We liked the
> >>>> green one better after all. Please change it back to that
> >>>> version." <click> (Did you hang up? No, I just said "click.")
> >>>> That leaves mind reading. 800.555.1212. Our trained mind readers
> >>>> are standing by to help with that client.
> >>>> I don't feel rained upon. I think you make great points. And the
> >>>> product is certainly not courting code monkeys. But, I think it
> >>>> might just be a hit with its intended audience! :-)
> >>>> Keith
> >>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 9:24 PM, Alan Smith wrote:
> >>>>> I'm working with a creative department that could definitely
> >>>>> benefit from a lot of this functionality. I would agree that its
> >>>>> target audience is prob on the design side. My reservation is
> >>>>> over the price - even with the discount, that is a fair chunk of
> >>>>> change.
> >>>>> My comment about the scottish accent was (mostly) sincere -
> >>>>> reminds of my grandparents... Ciamar a tha thu!
> >>>>> From: Paul Decoursey <p...@decoursey.net>
> >>>>> To: mnswf@googlegroups.com
> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 7:50:31 PM
> >>>>> Subject: [mnswf] Re: Gridiron Flow
> >>>>> Sounds cool I guess. I don't know how much I would gain from
> >>>>> it. I keep my files fairly well organized and I do hourly
> >>>>> backups of all files. Asset Tracking sounds great, but only
> >>>>> really when I'm working on other people files, can it go in
> >>>>> after the fact and do this? Same with undo flattening a
> >>>>> photoshop file, only of interest for when I get a flattened file
> >>>>> from a designer, but I'm guessing it won't really help then.
> >>>>> I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but some of this kind
> >>>>> of sounds like an excuse for people to continue in their bad
> >>>>> habits. There are some features that sound good, but I don't
> >>>>> think it's worth the overhead. This sounds more like a
> >>>>> designers tool to me.
> >>>>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 7:28 PM, Keith L Dvorak wrote:
> >>>>>> Really? I've been following the development of this app for
> >>>>>> almost two years now, so perhaps I've assumed more was present
> >>>>>> in the intro than was there. If so, my apologies. You can go to
> >>>>>> the product's main page and watch their introductory video or
> >>>>>> the features page (Workflow Maps, Real-time Asset Tracking,
> >>>>>> Visual Versioning, Time Tracking, etc) for those videos, and
> >>>>>> there are other pages too, easily found by the navigation panel
> >>>>>> on the left. Perhaps that gives a fuller picture. As the Dave
> >>>>>> Cross video says, though, for many, just the ability to undo
> >>>>>> flattening a Photoshop file is a huge deal.
> >>>>>> Install it and forget about it. You work the way you want to
> >>>>>> work, without having to change any habits.
> >>>>>> Let's say you're working on an InDesign document for an Annual
> >>>>>> Report. You have a Word/Page/Notepad/TextEdit file for the
> >>>>>> text. You have 20 screenshot files you edited in Photoshop,
> >>>>>> each a separate
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