Reasons for dropping Costco Membership
HarrySwift
In the last few months Costco-American Express cardholders were
notified they can look forward to higher interest rates and late
fees...already some of the highest in the CC industry.
Most Costco cardholders pay off their balances every 30 days and few
are affected.
But considering the raping and pillaging done by the banking industry
to this once great nation, the gall of American Express to make this
new announcement is astounding. Unbridled greed unleashed on too
many.
My family is dropping all association with Costco since they prefer to
associate with American Express..one of the greediest among us.
catpandaddy
"HarrySwift" <Harry...@nospam.frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:1c0ie5t79gbvbejvf...@4ax.com...
A far tastier revenge would be to keep the association, buy in small volumes
and pay the card off immediately each month, thereby robbing them of their
would-be interest and fee collections.
John A. Weeks III
HarrySwift <Harry...@nospam.frontiernet.net> wrote:
> But considering the raping and pillaging done by the banking industry
> to this once great nation, the gall of American Express to make this
> new announcement is astounding. Unbridled greed unleashed on too
> many.
Perhaps you are not familiar with the concept of how business works.
If a person borrows money, and they miss payments or are late with
payments, the lender is entitled to recover those costs and to set
a fee that is high enough to discourage those bad behaviors. And
if a person regularly spends more than they can afford (by carrying
high amounts of unsecured debt), they are statistically more
likely to default, making them a higher risk. When someone
takes more risk with money, they are traditionally expected to
get higher rewards for that risk. This is all spelled out in
great detail in the contract that both parties agree to follow.
There is nothing unethical or greedy about it. If a person
doesn't like the deal, they don't have to borrow the money.
Perhaps you don't get as good of deal as I do from Am/Ex for
some reason. I haven't paid a single dime in fees to them
in over a decade. I have both a business and a personal
card. They are no fee, and there is no interest as long as
you pay them off within the grace period.
> My family is dropping all association with Costco since they prefer to
> associate with American Express..one of the greediest among us.
Am/Ex for years was a major employer in the twin cities who
wrote paychecks for 6,000 of our neighbors. While the Am/Ex
name is gone from downtown, the spin-off company that remains
is still a major local employer. Perhaps you consider all
these middle class jobs to be a problem and you would like
to see 6,000 more people on unemployment? Perhaps if nobody
had any jobs we could have the communist utopia that you
seem to want.
-john-
--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 jo...@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================
Bert Hyman
<Harry...@nospam.frontiernet.net> wrote:
> But considering the raping and pillaging done by the banking industry
> to this once great nation, the gall of American Express to make this
> new announcement is astounding.
They're doing it now to get in under the wire of new federal regulations
that go into effect in a few months.
> Unbridled greed unleashed on too many.
Just another "unintended" consequence of a government edict.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN be...@iphouse.com
Hell Toupee
> My family is dropping all association with Costco since they prefer to
> associate with American Express..one of the greediest among us.
Why stop there? Boycott every retailer that accepts any credit cards
whatsoever!
That'll show 'em.
Brian Elfert
>... their association with American Express.
>In the last few months Costco-American Express cardholders were
>notified they can look forward to higher interest rates and late
>fees...already some of the highest in the CC industry.
Are you going to stop shopping at every store that offers a credit card
then? Almost every bank out there is raising credit card interest rates.
Daniel L. Snyder
"catpandaddy" <c...@cat.pan.net> wrote:
Gee, are you saying you could use the card, and then pay it off on time?
Wouldn't that be using someone else's money, for like 30 days or so, for
free? Wouldn't that be exploiting the bank or something?
Poor bank. Congress really oughta pass a law....
Jerry
wrote:
Another reason to drop Costco membership: selling a laptop advertised
as qualified for a free Windows 7 upgrade, then telling you two months
later that it doens't qualify and you can either keep it as-is or
return it within 90 days of the purchase date. I fought and won but it
wasn't easy. I'll finish using my current membership but I won't
renew.
--
Jerry
catpandaddy
"Daniel L. Snyder " <snyds_rem...@tcq.NOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:snyds_remove-this_-E...@host86-136-209-74.range86-136.btcentralplus.com...
Ya hit the nail square-on there, D. Snyder! We wanna rock, and we're not
gonna take it!!!
John A. Weeks III
<snyds_remove-this_-E...@host86-136-209-74.range86-136.
btcentralplus.com>,
"Daniel L. Snyder " <snyds_rem...@tcq.NOSPAM.net>
wrote:
> Gee, are you saying you could use the card, and then pay it off on time?
> Wouldn't that be using someone else's money, for like 30 days or so, for
> free? Wouldn't that be exploiting the bank or something?
>
> Poor bank. Congress really oughta pass a law....
Banks take a fee on each credit card transaction. No one is using
anyone else's money for free. The cost of the fee is built into
the price of everything that you buy. No one is being exploited,
and no one is pointing a gun at your head forcing you to buy
anything or use any particular card.
osmium
> Banks take a fee on each credit card transaction. No one is using
> anyone else's money for free. The cost of the fee is built into
> the price of everything that you buy. No one is being exploited,
> and no one is pointing a gun at your head forcing you to buy
> anything or use any particular card.
Some of the more advanced states, such as South Dakota, allow retailers to
give a discount for cash purchases. This discount used to be quite common
for gasoline - perhaps it still is. It's especially interesting since South
Dakota is ostensibly the home of a lot of the national credit card
operations.
Mike H
>
> In the last few months Costco-American Express cardholders were
> notified they can look forward to higher interest rates and late
> fees...already some of the highest in the CC industry.
I don't know if that is all that unique for Credit companies. I know
my son who has an excellent credit score and has paid regularly in
full any balances on his US Bank Card, recently got a notice that his
interest rate was increasing and his available credit was being cut in
half. I suggested he call them, which he did. After a lengthy
conversation with them, the determined they still wanted him a
customer and put the interest rate back down and re-established the
credit limit. Apparently, something is going on and many are raising
rates.
Bob
news:john-A07081.1...@news-1.octanews.net...
> In article
> <snyds_remove-this_-E...@host86-136-209-74.range86-136.
> btcentralplus.com>,
> "Daniel L. Snyder " <snyds_rem...@tcq.NOSPAM.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Gee, are you saying you could use the card, and then pay it off on time?
>> Wouldn't that be using someone else's money, for like 30 days or so, for
>> free? Wouldn't that be exploiting the bank or something?
>>
>> Poor bank. Congress really oughta pass a law....
>
> Banks take a fee on each credit card transaction. No one is using
> anyone else's money for free. The cost of the fee is built into
> the price of everything that you buy. No one is being exploited,
> and no one is pointing a gun at your head forcing you to buy
> anything or use any particular card.
>
> -john-
>
and those who pay with cash lose.
Doug McIntyre
>On Oct 28, 9:48=A0pm, HarrySwift <HarrySw...@nospam.frontiernet.net>
Its happening all around for all credit-cards.
Probably for two reasons, that people are alot more careful with their
money lately, and not letting themselves get socked with fees, and the
banks hit with the Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility and
Disclosure Act basicly just shifted from charging outright high fees
over to getting the same profit via different means with higher
interest rates, and closing out accounts that aren't profitable to them.
John A. Weeks III
"osmium" <r124c...@comcast.net> wrote:
That may be true, but every credit card merchant agreement that I have
seen states that the merchant has to agree to accept the card for all
purchases, no matter how small, and cannot change a different price
for credit card users than for non-credit card users.
John A. Weeks III
"Bob" <not_v...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Not true at all. If a merchant accepts a card that has been
properly authorized, they will get the money. But if they accept
a counterfeit bill, they are out of luck and lose the money. When
you take cash, you have to worry about keeping the cash, take time
to go to the bank every day, keep enough change on hand, worry
about cashiers ripping you off, worry about bad paper, and worry
about being robbed. Cash is hugely expensive to deal with, and
it drives up the cost of goods.
Doug McIntyre
>In article <4aebbc87$0$28115$8046...@newsreader.iphouse.net>,
> "Bob" <not_v...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> and those who pay with cash lose.
>Not true at all. If a merchant accepts a card that has been
>properly authorized, they will get the money. But if they accept
>a counterfeit bill, they are out of luck and lose the money. When
>you take cash, you have to worry about keeping the cash, take time
>to go to the bank every day, keep enough change on hand, worry
>about cashiers ripping you off, worry about bad paper, and worry
>about being robbed. Cash is hugely expensive to deal with, and
>it drives up the cost of goods.
Banks get their cut dealing with cash too. Merchants get charged fees
for getting coin rolls. Businesses that do mostly small purchases
(ie. fast food, gas stations, convience stores, etc.) have to get
plenty of coin rolls from the banks to make change for customers. Way
way back when I worked in a retail environment, we probably did 30
coin rolls a day, and would easily have a few hundred in the safe at
any given time to cover our needs for a few days.
(To finish it out, they get fees on checks too, although that is
definately not an option much more for retail shopping).
Jules
> Mike H <mike8...@gmail.com> writes:
>>On Oct 28, 9:48=A0pm, HarrySwift <HarrySw...@nospam.frontiernet.net>
>>wrote:
>>> ... their association with American Express.
>>>
>>> In the last few months Costco-American Express cardholders were
>>> notified they can look forward to higher interest rates and late
>>> fees...already some of the highest in the CC industry.
>
>>I don't know if that is all that unique for Credit companies. I know
>>my son who has an excellent credit score and has paid regularly in
>>full any balances on his US Bank Card, recently got a notice that his
>>interest rate was increasing and his available credit was being cut in
>>half. I suggested he call them, which he did. After a lengthy
>>conversation with them, the determined they still wanted him a
>>customer and put the interest rate back down and re-established the
>>credit limit. Apparently, something is going on and many are raising
>>rates.
>
>
> Its happening all around for all credit-cards.
>
> Probably for two reasons, that people are alot more careful with their
> money lately, and not letting themselves get socked with fees
That's probably it - I've heard lots of folk up here complain that their
cc company's changed the rules of the game on them recently. Seems
to be across the board rather than any one particular company.
I think I've had my Visa card around ten years now. I just set it
up so my bank does an automated transfer each month and pays the
balance off, so I basically treat it like a debit card in
situations where I can't use my regular debit card for some reason,
or where the cc gives me extra protection on purchases. So long as
they don't start charging fees for low use (I use it maybe two or
three times a year these days) I've got no reason to ditch it.
catpandaddy
"Jules" <jules.rich...@remove.this.gmail.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.10.31....@remove.this.gmail.com...
So what I'm hearing all around, if I get it right, is that responsible
credit users are getting along just fine, and irresponsible credit users are
complaining about taking their lumps? Shocking!
Brian Elfert
>Not true at all. If a merchant accepts a card that has been
>properly authorized, they will get the money. But if they accept
A credit card sale is not guaranteed money. Customers can dispute the
charge after the fact for any number of reasons and the customer often
wins such disputes. Sure, the merchant might get their merchandise back,
but will it be in saleable condition?
In some (maybe all) cases of accepting a stolen card the merchant will be
out the money. I worked at a retailer when laptops cost still $2000 and
up. The store lost like $3,000 when someone used a stolen card for a
laptop.
I'll bet stolen cards show up a lot more often than counterfeit cash.
Brian Elfert
>half. I suggested he call them, which he did. After a lengthy
>conversation with them, the determined they still wanted him a
>customer and put the interest rate back down and re-established the
>credit limit. Apparently, something is going on and many are raising
>rates.
Credit card issuers are raising rates in advance of new federal law. The
new law will require a 45 day notice to raise rates.
They also raising rates because the new law limits some of the fees they
currently charge.
catpandaddy
"Brian Elfert" <bel...@visi.com> wrote in message
news:IJCdncKNOYud9XHX...@posted.visi...
You know, in the past I might have recommended going to biometrics for all
sales, but these days I am just cynical enough to realize someone somewhere
might try to get away with identity theft by lopping off a random stranger's
fingers just for the prints.
dr...@bin.sh
> Credit card issuers are raising rates in advance of new federal law. The
> new law will require a 45 day notice to raise rates.
sure, may as well do it now across the board, than later when its
a huge pain in the dodgeball.
--
\^\ // dr...@bin.sh (CARRIER LOST) <http://www.bin.sh/>
\ // --------------------------------------------------------------------
// \ X-Windows: Complex non-solutions to simple non-problems.
// \_\ -- Dude from DPAK
Doug McIntyre
>So what I'm hearing all around, if I get it right, is that responsible
>credit users are getting along just fine, and irresponsible credit users are
>complaining about taking their lumps? Shocking!
As long as you don't carry a balance on your credit card, the worst
that can happen is that your bank has been dropping customers they
haven't been profitable (ie. getting fees) from. Otherwise not much.
If you do let some balance carry, then typically rates are going up
across the board due to several reasons, the CARD law among them.
John A. Weeks III
Brian Elfert <bel...@visi.com> wrote:
I have been involved with retail and credit cards since the late
1970s. I have never once seen a case where a transaction that I
completed was not paid when I had an authorization code from the
card processor. Sure, if a merchant knowns that a card is bad,
or fails to get an authorization code, the transaction can be
reversed. Some merchants are too lazy to get those codes, or
don't pay for the service and are willing to take the risk.
Doc O'Leary
"catpandaddy" <c...@cat.pan.net> wrote:
> You know, in the past I might have recommended going to biometrics for all
> sales, but these days I am just cynical enough to realize someone somewhere
> might try to get away with identity theft by lopping off a random stranger's
> fingers just for the prints.
The bigger problem is that seeing biometrics as a "secure" key makes
eventual failures all that much more dangerous. Then *you* have to show
that your still-perfectly-attached-finger wasn't the one up to no good.
And the related issue is that once an easy hack is widespread, good luck
changing your fingerprint!
--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, ono.com,
and probably your server, too.
Jules
>> That's probably it - I've heard lots of folk up here complain that their
>> cc company's changed the rules of the game on them recently. Seems
>> to be across the board rather than any one particular company.
>>
>> I think I've had my Visa card around ten years now. I just set it
>> up so my bank does an automated transfer each month and pays the
>> balance off, so I basically treat it like a debit card in
>> situations where I can't use my regular debit card for some reason,
>> or where the cc gives me extra protection on purchases. So long as
>> they don't start charging fees for low use (I use it maybe two or
>> three times a year these days) I've got no reason to ditch it.
>
> So what I'm hearing all around, if I get it right, is that responsible
> credit users are getting along just fine, and irresponsible credit users are
> complaining about taking their lumps? Shocking!
Almost. I think the issue is that the vast majority of folk get a credit
card with the intention of running up a "reasonable" debt according to
their circumstances and paying it off a bit at a time (or entirely at a
later date) - i.e. they're using the card just as a credit card's
intended to be used. What they're finding is that the companies are all
changing their terms / conditions / rates and the deal the users
are suddenly getting is far worse than what it was - and it's this that's
pissing everyone off.
Of course the cc companies are perfectly entitled to do what they're
doing, but I suppose that doesn't make it any harder to swallow when it
happens.
People who run up many many thousands in debt and then act surprised when
they get screwed are a different matter, I think, but I'm guessing that
they make up a few percent of all users.
Mike H
wrote:
I think the challenge is the same with CC companies as it is with many
things these days. Folks have certain expectations based on the
past. Things are changing, the world is moving on, and it creates a
disconnect in what peoples expectations are and how business or the
government are actually operating.
Jules
> I think the challenge is the same with CC companies as it is with many
> things these days. Folks have certain expectations based on the
> past. Things are changing, the world is moving on, and it creates a
> disconnect in what peoples expectations are and how business or the
> government are actually operating.
Yeah, that could be. I suspect a lot of people just don't realise how much
the rules of the game can change right under their noses though, and
that's what's upsetting for them. If the cc companies were able to say
something like "you have 12 months to pay up and *then* we're going to
change our terms to xyz" people would handle it a lot better - but of
course financial markets don't work to those kinds of timescales :-)
WDS
At one time this may have been true but in my recent trips to SD there
were no discounts for cash anywhere that I saw. Or if there were they
were not advertised.
WDS
Actually, some CC companies are now charging fees for *not using* a card.
catpandaddy
"WDS" <Bi...@seurer.net> wrote in message
news:hcn0p3$7tn$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
What the who did the what now? o_O
I'm having a difficult time figuring out how that actually works in
practice. "Hi, I just created a new credit card company, and you will give
me two percent of the revenues from every cash sale or we'll throw you under
a bus" or something like that?
WDS
For example (from what google turned up in a quick search):
In June, Fifth Third Bank began charging a $19 fee if credit card
borrowers have no account activity in 12 months...
Fifth Third Bank? Who thought up THAT name?
Jules
> Fifth Third Bank? Who thought up THAT name?
People who understand and control the financial markets. Which is why
we're in such a big mess :-)
catpandaddy
Probably some ad exec on his third "fifth" of vodka.
I get how it works now, it's the card user who gets the fee. I was still
thinking in terms of the retailer before.