The Ford V-8 that costs you $1200 for a new set of spark plugs-really!
SplitImage
$1200 for a set of new plugs installed. Ford has big problems they
cannot afford to address.
When removing the old plug...breaking off four out of eight..... in
the head..is the norm. Incredible!
this was on the web... I cannot find the url:
FORD: 2004-2005 F-1502005 Expedition, F-Super Duty
LINCOLN: 2005 Navigator
This article supersedes TSB 06-5-9 to update the vehicle lines and
model years.
ISSUE:
Some 2004-2005 F-150 and 2005 F-Super Duty, Expedition, and Navigator
vehicles with a 5.4L 3-valve engine may experience difficulty with
spark plug removal which may cause damage to the spark plug and leave
part of the spark plug in the cylinder head.
Apparently there is a special tool to retrieve the broken plug end.. I
found this too
http://autoforum.classifieds1000.com/Ford-F150/Spark_Plug_Nightmare
or...look out for the plug spitting models
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/01/ford_truck_engines.html
Mike H
wrote:
> 10 hours to change the plugs is the norm...really! That's $700 to
> $1200 for a set of new plugs installed. Ford has big problems they
> cannot afford to address.
Not a new problem. The deep valley location of spark plugs with over
head cam engine designs and the use of aluminum heads can lead to
significantly difficult plugs to remove. This is exacerbated by the
use of long life plugs in engines that don't need to be serviced, in
some cases, for 100,000 miles. With more time comes more opportunity
for corrosion to occur.
I've used a good quality anti-seize compound when re-installing spark
plugs that go into aluminum heads since I started changing spark
plugs.
Gandalf
When I bought a new car in 2005, I put anti seize compound on the
sparkplug threads within the first month. The manufacturer deliberately
made the individual coils on the spark plugs somewhat difficult to
remove, to make this simple maintenance procedure as difficult as
possible.
It probably took me about 30 minutes, tops.
When the car gets to 60 to 80K, and it's time for new iridium NGK plugs,
I expect mo problems.
If the car manufacturers squandered an extra 25 cents or so PER CAR to
apply antisieze compound to the sparkplug threads, then they wouldn't be
collecting $1200 later on to fix the problem...oh wait, never mind.....
Let's face it: most car owners today are idiots. They have no idea of
how a car actually works, or how to do the most simple maintenance.
Car manufacturers print absolutely ludicrously long intervals for
maintenance, in their owner's manuals, in an attempt to fool ignorant
new car purchasers that modern cars, which have more than 30,000 parts,
don't REQUIRE more than gasoline, and an occasional oil change, to
remain both reliable, and efficient.
Most people never even READ the maintenance schedule.
My insurance agent was BRAGGING to me that all he had done for 90,000
miles on his Toyota Matrix was change the engine oil. What imbecile.
I assume this moron DIDN'T get the automatic transmission fluid flushed
and replaced, at 60,000 miles, per the owners manual. Or change the
coolant, (every 2 years) or any of the many other things that really do
need to get done, to keep a car running properly
And, when he gets to 120,000 miles, and the automatic transmission needs
a $2000 rebuild (or a $4000 replacement), he'll be cursing the
manufacturer, for not making his car idiot proof.
I have no sympathy for people like him.
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Al
My understanding of this situation is that it is not an issue of how
hard it is to unscrew the spark plugs, it's an issue of there being no
easy access to the spark plugs without significant OTHER activity. What
this means is they have the engine compartment so full of whatever that
there is no way to get close to the spark plugs with any tool. Some
vehicles require major removal of "things" to get at the plugs. Some
even require the engine to be lifted out.
This business you mention of the manufacturer using some sort of
self-seizing spark plug threads sounds pretty odd to me. Perhaps those
spark plugs are delivered to the factory in BLACK HELICOPTERS??
Mark Olson
> My understanding of this situation is that it is not an issue of how
> hard it is to unscrew the spark plugs, it's an issue of there being no
> easy access to the spark plugs without significant OTHER activity. What
> this means is they have the engine compartment so full of whatever that
> there is no way to get close to the spark plugs with any tool. Some
> vehicles require major removal of "things" to get at the plugs. Some
> even require the engine to be lifted out.
Your understanding about "this situation", i.e., presumably the one
mentioned in the subject, which is "Ford V-8 that costs you $1200 for a
new set of spark plugs..." is wrong. This is not to say that situations
like you describe don't exist, it's just that this particular one has
nothing to do with ease of access.
As someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, there is a specific
engine, the 3-valve Ford 5.4l V8, that has a problem with spark plugs
seizing in the heads. The problem is not primarily one of getting
access to the plugs. The root of the problem is the unique design of
the plugs and is exacerbated, exactly as the OP described, by the long
recommended service interval.
> This business you mention of the manufacturer using some sort of
> self-seizing spark plug threads sounds pretty odd to me. Perhaps those
> spark plugs are delivered to the factory in BLACK HELICOPTERS??
Google up what these plugs look like, find the TSB that shows what the
problem is, and how Ford advises mechanics to fix it.
Doc O'Leary
g.ga...@lycos.com (Gandalf) wrote:
> Let's face it: most car owners today are idiots. They have no idea of
> how a car actually works, or how to do the most simple maintenance.
That has always been the case, though. And there's no reason to feel
superior yourself by focusing only on maintenance. Drivers don't
understand how gas is refined, how roads are made, how their exhaust
affects the environment, or really anything regarding the TCO of
automobile ownership. If they did, they'd ride bikes or walk more.
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catpandaddy
"Doc O'Leary" <drolear...@4q2009.subsume.com> wrote in message
news:droleary.usenet-15...@news.twtelecom.net...
> In article <4b3513e3...@news.iphouse.com>,
> g.ga...@lycos.com (Gandalf) wrote:
>
>> Let's face it: most car owners today are idiots. They have no idea of
>> how a car actually works, or how to do the most simple maintenance.
>
> That has always been the case, though. And there's no reason to feel
> superior yourself by focusing only on maintenance. Drivers don't
> understand how gas is refined, how roads are made, how their exhaust
> affects the environment, or really anything regarding the TCO of
> automobile ownership. If they did, they'd ride bikes or walk more.
My next car is going to be a Ford Fractal.
Mike Ekholm
: Not a new problem. The deep valley location of spark plugs with over
: head cam engine designs and the use of aluminum heads can lead to
: significantly difficult plugs to remove. This is exacerbated by the
: use of long life plugs in engines that don't need to be serviced, in
: some cases, for 100,000 miles. With more time comes more opportunity
: for corrosion to occur.
Sounds like those spark plugs are BUILT FORD TOUGH
Mike Ekholm
: "Doc O'Leary" <drolear...@4q2009.subsume.com> wrote in message
Want to know something sad?
Results 1 - 10 of about 1,520 for "ford fractal". (0.16 seconds)
CarlSwanson
It depends on what in this post you are responding too. The issue
with the 5.4L V-8 is a problem for the best of the ASE and factory
trained master mechanics. Breaking four plugs in the heads..out of
eight is average. I agree with the critics about anti-seize and a
special derivative. You should not have to worry about being able to
remove a spark plug earlier or later in any high production auto.
Shame on the manufacturing managers for foisting this debacle on the
consumer.