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Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 17:05:29 -0600
From: Stephen Thompson <SPTh...@FrontierNet.net>
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To: mn-agile-experiences@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: MNAEG Gathering Thursday, Jan. 26 at 6:00 PM.
References: <17605984.83.1325725894799.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnd19> <5091862.2378.1326558165685.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqlf8> <CAFDzFbd5Fwt2Ko-mMcnd9Qb_67DnakcQMs2W+YD==yST8os...@mail.gmail.com>
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I will attend.
Steph T
On 1/14/2012 11:21 AM, Erik Hanson wrote:
>
> I have interest.
>
> On Jan 14, 2012 10:22 AM, "RHunter" <rodhun...@usfamily.net
> <mailto:rodhun...@usfamily.net>> wrote:
>
> "My team is underestimating" is the topic suggested the Jan.
> Gathering - do we have some interest?
> If so who would like to organize the session?
> Anyone have a sponsor suggestion?
> - Rod
> Tomo
>
> Post reply
> Jan 5 (8 days ago)
> Other recipients:
> I have been following the "My team is underestimating" discussion
> on Scrum Practitioners list in Linked In. It has been really
> fascinating, with several conflicting ways to get from T-shirt
> sizes on stories to schedules on a calender. In my experience,
> there are so many sources of noise that the whole process is more
> art than science. But there seems to be more science that I was
> aware of. It would make an interesting discussion topic.
>
> Tomo Lennox
> cell: 612-385-4326 <tel:612-385-4326>
> home: 763-383-0111 <tel:763-383-0111>
> to...@tomoLennox.com
>
>
> Our next gathering date is coming up - time again to select a
> topic and sponsor.
> Anyone come up with something over the holidays?
> Let's set a go/no go date for Monday, Jan. 16.
> Begin forwarded message:
>> *From: *Scrum Practitioners <groups-...@linkedin.com>
>> *Date: *Thursday,2012-January-05 6:59:38 CST
>> *To: *Tomo Lennox <to...@tomolennox.com>
>> *Subject: **New comment on "My team is underestimating, what
>> should I do?"*
>>
>>
>> LinkedIn Groups
>>
>> * *Group:* Scrum Practitioners
>> * *Discussion:* My team is underestimating, what should I do?
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/e/myqi6t-gx1s9fqp-3i/vaq/85424183/52030/63438676/view_disc/?hs=false&tok=0u6N-wqm0bal41>
>>
>>
>> Marcel, I agree that the volume of partially done work in your
>> queues, such as for instance stories that are ready and
>> estimated, should not be more than necessary.
>>
>> I would not recommend that you should game the estimation numbers
>> down as your team improves, if that is what you mean. If you do
>> it that way you are actually hiding your team improvements. Root
>> cause of that thinking would be interesting to analyze, probably
>> has to do with exactly the estimation fallacy I wanted to bring up.
>>
>> If you mean that the scope of a given function becomes clearer as
>> you go from big epics to medium functions to small stories, and
>> in that process expectations change in terms of how much actually
>> needs to be done (scope reduced), then yes relative size of that
>> work will and should be visible in team estimations. This is a
>> natural effect of the PO/team's learning what needs to be done to
>> have success in the eyes of the customer and business that needs
>> your software. If that's what you meant, thats a good point too.
>>
>> I've found that often the best way to cut scope is to split big
>> chunks of "necessary work" to small pieces of work, and after
>> having done that only implement stuff we are 100 % sure that we
>> need. After that is delivered, evaluate the outcome in the
>> customer's eyes and plan next phase. As it happen, when you work
>> this way a lot of stuff will naturally not get done, and in this
>> case this is a very good way.
>> Posted by Mathias
>>
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I will attend. <br>
<br>
Steph T <br>
<br>
On 1/14/2012 11:21 AM, Erik Hanson wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAFDzFbd5Fwt2Ko-mMcnd9Qb_67DnakcQMs2W+YD==yST8os...@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<p>I have interest.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jan 14, 2012 10:22 AM, "RHunter" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rodhun...@usfamily.net">rodhun...@usfamily.net</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td align="left" valign="top">
<div>"My team is underestimating" is the topic
suggested the Jan. Gathering - do we have some
interest? </div>
<div>If so who would like to organize the session?</div>
<div>Anyone have a sponsor suggestion? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>- Rod</div>
<div><span><span style="COLOR:#00681c"></span></span> </div>
<div><span><span style="COLOR:#00681c">Tomo</span></span><span></span></div>
</td>
<td align="right" valign="top">
<div>
<div><img moz-do-not-send="true"
style="WIDTH:21px;BACKGROUND: no-repeat -142px
0px;min-height:21px"
src="https://groups.google.com/forum/clear.cache.gif"
border="0"><span>Post reply</span></div>
<span>
<div><img moz-do-not-send="true"
style="WIDTH:7px;BACKGROUND: no-repeat -34px
-29px;min-height:4px"
src="https://groups.google.com/forum/clear.cache.gif"
border="0"><span></span></div>
</span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<span></span></div>
</div>
<span title="Thursday, January 5, 2012 12:39:05 PM
UTC-6 (8 days ago)">Jan 5 (8 days ago)</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2">
<div>
<div><span>Other recipients: </span><span><span></span></span></div>
</div>
<div><span></span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word">I have been
following the "My team is underestimating"
discussion on Scrum Practitioners list in Linked
In. It has been really fascinating, with several
conflicting ways to get from T-shirt sizes on
stories to schedules on a calender. In my
experience, there are so many sources of noise
that the whole process is more art than science.
But there seems to be more science that I was
aware of. It would make an interesting
discussion topic.
<div><br>
<div>
<div><span
style="border-collapse:separate;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font:medium
Helvetica;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word">
<div>
<div>Tomo Lennox</div>
<div>cell: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:612-385-4326"
value="+16123854326"
target="_blank">612-385-4326</a></div>
<div>home: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:763-383-0111"
value="+17633830111"
target="_blank">763-383-0111</a></div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true">to...@tomoLennox.com</a></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div>Our next gathering date is coming up
- time again to select a topic and
sponsor. </div>
<div>Anyone come up with something over
the holidays?</div>
<div>Let's set a go/no go date for Monday,
Jan. 16.</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px"><font
style="font:12px Helvetica"
face="Helvetica" color="#000000"
size="3"><b>From: </b></font><font
style="FONT:12px Helvetica"
face="Helvetica" size="3">Scrum
Practitioners <<a
moz-do-not-send="true">groups-...@linkedin.com</a>></font></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px"><font
style="font:12px Helvetica"
face="Helvetica" color="#000000"
size="3"><b>Date: </b></font><font
style="FONT:12px Helvetica"
face="Helvetica" size="3">Thursday,2012-January-05
6:59:38 CST</font></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px"><font
style="font:12px Helvetica"
face="Helvetica" color="#000000"
size="3"><b>To: </b></font><font
style="FONT:12px Helvetica"
face="Helvetica" size="3">Tomo
Lennox <<a
moz-do-not-send="true">to...@tomolennox.com</a>></font></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px"><font
style="font:12px Helvetica"
face="Helvetica" color="#000000"
size="3"><b>Subject: </b></font><font
style="FONT:12px Helvetica"
face="Helvetica" size="3"><b>New
comment on "My team is
underestimating, what should I
do?"</b></font></div>
<div
style="MARGIN:0px;MIN-HEIGHT:14px"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<table style="MARGIN:0px
auto;WIDTH:550px;FONT:12px
arial,sans-serif;BORDER-TOP:#39c 4px
solid" border="0" cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="PADDING-TOP:5px">
<h1 style="font:bold 21px
arial">LinkedIn <span
style="COLOR:#666;FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Groups</span></h1>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td
style="PADDING-BOTTOM:25px;FONT-SIZE:13px">
<ul
style="LIST-STYLE-TYPE:none;PADDING-LEFT:0px;MARGIN-BOTTOM:10px">
<li><strong>Group:</strong>
Scrum Practitioners</li>
<li><strong>Discussion:</strong>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.linkedin.com/e/myqi6t-gx1s9fqp-3i/vaq/85424183/52030/63438676/view_disc/?hs=false&tok=0u6N-wqm0bal41"
target="_blank">My team
is underestimating, what
should I do?</a> </li>
</ul>
<p>Marcel, I agree that the
volume of partially done
work in your queues, such as
for instance stories that
are ready and estimated,
should not be more than
necessary.<br>
<br>
I would not recommend that
you should game the
estimation numbers down as
your team improves, if that
is what you mean. If you do
it that way you are actually
hiding your team
improvements. Root cause of
that thinking would be
interesting to analyze,
probably has to do with
exactly the estimation
fallacy I wanted to bring
up.<br>
<br>
If you mean that the scope
of a given function becomes
clearer as you go from big
epics to medium functions to
small stories, and in that
process expectations change
in terms of how much
actually needs to be done
(scope reduced), then yes
relative size of that work
will and should be visible
in team estimations. This is
a natural effect of the
PO/team's learning what
needs to be done to have
success in the eyes of the
customer and business that
needs your software. If
that's what you meant, thats
a good point too.<br>
<br>
I've found that often the
best way to cut scope is to
split big chunks of
"necessary work" to small
pieces of work, and after
having done that only
implement stuff we are 100 %
sure that we need. After
that is delivered, evaluate
the outcome in the
customer's eyes and plan
next phase. As it happen,
when you work this way a lot
of stuff will naturally not
get done, and in this case
this is a very good way. <br>
<span
style="DISPLAY:block;COLOR:#666666;FONT-SIZE:11px;PADDING-TOP:7px">Posted
by Mathias</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>
--------------000702080801040307070500--
Message from discussion MNAEG Gathering Thursday, Jan. 26 at 6:00 PM.
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