End of the Mac Pro on Tuesday?

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Hannah Mackinlay

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Jun 8, 2013, 2:37:24 PM6/8/13
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Having never recovered from the death of FCP a year or so it sadly looks like the end of the line for the MacPro. The only rumours are that the 'very different' replacement to be announced on Tuesday will NOT be internally expandable and will rely heavily on thunderbolt. Sounds like a Mac mini on steroids rather than a Mac Pro. Certainly not a match for an HP z800

My venerable 8 core Pro looks like its going to have to last me for the rest of my mac life!! Can't see me rendering HD video without an nvidia quadro card on a Big Mac Mini. I have a bottle of gin ready for tuesday to drown my sorrows if necessary.

Hannah Mackinlay
07515 392571
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Rick Squires

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Jun 8, 2013, 3:28:12 PM6/8/13
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I miss FCP too. But X has got much better(10.0.8) and does have some nice goodies like the Multicam synch stuff. Metadata handling is much slicker although the Event Library business is a real pain. I used to have folders for projects so i could keep all the disk images, graphics etc. together(and provided you named a project straight away it was a snap keeping track of the stuff in Final Cut Docs).

I know they had to rewrite the code base because it used a lot of deprecated APIs, but I do wish they'd kept the more of the old FCP look and feel. Sequences were just so obvious and the nesting was brilliant. I still struggle with the magnetic timeline and the compound clip stuff. And I really dislike the Precision Editor. I'd also made a bit of effort to get comfortable with Soundtrack Pro..

But you can get used to it.

Reading Larry Jordan, he reckons the current quad core iMacs can handle the CPU heavy lifting. What counts is disk transfer speed for rendering-and you can hang a Thunderbolt(2?) RAID off an iMac.

I suspect where the GPU might be an issue is for Motion Graphics. I do know that Aperture,a notorious laggard, rocks on my iMac 27. Actually, I'd much rather have an update to that program than a new Mac Pro, but I know some people will have very different opinions!!

The keynote is Monday isn't it-you better get the gin in early Hannah. 😄

Rick

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Hannah Mackinlay

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Jun 8, 2013, 4:43:45 PM6/8/13
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Hi Rick, I jumped ship to p pro Cs5.5 and then 6 which is really fcp8! All the speed you needed with native editing, no pr res file size nightmares using xdcam ex or avchd or transcoding and the same look and feel (ish) of FCP7. It's like going back to the dark ages of tape when have to open fcp7. I don't think more than a handful of pro video editors use fcpx. The bonkers event library was the killer I have hundreds of hour long video projects that need to be done and archived and I need the nvidia quadro graphics card to do massive heavy lifting on edits and renders.

My i7 MacBook Pro wimps out on these to be honest! It wont support mercury playback engine in cs6 on hardware emulation anything like as good as a dedicated multicore quadro card. The i7s can't compete with a quadro! If the new Mac Pro won't support a quadro I'm out! When the macpro finally dies it will be awful as I cannot face windows after 10 years of mac goodness

I think I better get two bottles of gin in for Monday!

Hannah

Patrick Neame

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Jun 8, 2013, 4:41:42 PM6/8/13
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I recommend the Aldi Gin of which you may have heard lately. It won an award at the International Spirits Convention so I got some recently. It's £10 a bottle and I think it's jolly good stuff.

Rick Squires

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Jun 8, 2013, 4:53:41 PM6/8/13
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Just out of interest, are you going to sign up for Creative Cloud or stick with CS6?

I use Photoshop CS5 on both Mac and PC(work) and TBO once you're in Adobe's environment it's very similar. Wouldn't do it through choice because of all the grief that comes with Windows(can anyone BELIEVE Windows 8. I just fell over laughing when I tried it. On a tablet. I thought it was a deliberate windup until the office MS guru assured me it was MEANT TO BE LIKE THAT!!!)

We can moan about Apple but the alternatives are so horrid ....

Rick

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Hannah Mackinlay

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Jun 9, 2013, 3:12:18 PM6/9/13
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Hi Rick

Lol re Win 8. And I heard they have already brought back the Start button. I haven't even looked at it - I would rather stick pins in my eyes

Dunno about Creative Cloud. Having parted with the thick end of £1,300 for the whole Production Premium suite ( and that was with 50% switchers discount plus CS6 update) I haven't really worked out what it is or how it would benefit anyone working on their own and not collaboratively?.. What do you think. As most of my projects are say 4-5 takes of total of 1hr = 12G data, uploading raw footage onto the web is beyond the possible, given that for example I might have five of those in an average week.

And yes big Gin session in prospect pm tomorrow, I'll start with Aldi and then go onto paintstripper as the Keynote continues

Rick Squires

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Jun 9, 2013, 3:31:22 PM6/9/13
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It's not really about data. If you want updates beyond CS6 you have to get them from Adobe over the Internet. Not sure about the UK but the US price is $50 a month to get everything or $20 a month per app. There are discounts for existing users in year 1.

So if you stop paying the subs, the apps stop working. Lots of debate on what you do then(e.g. Other apps can read PSD)

For pros it's probably not a big deal-just the cost of doing business(and possibly tax deductible)

The exceptions seem to be Lightroom and the consumer versions of the apps, which won't require a subscription(for now anyway)

Ho hum

Enjoy the gin!!

Rick

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Chris Roberts

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Jun 9, 2013, 4:45:42 PM6/9/13
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Interesting discussion guys….

I use and train both FCP X and Premiere Pro. Both have their pros and cons, but both are very efficient to use on my MacBook Pro 17" i7 with 16GB of RAM and my iMac 27" with 32GB RAM. Both machines have supported GPU for Premiere Pro so I get the full benefit of Mercury playback. FCP X also rocks on these machines and performs incredibly well on the 15" Retina MacBook Pro I've been using as a loaner for the last couple of weeks. I've not had call to use FCP 7 at all in the last 18 months (well, I did open it up once a few weeks back to help extort an OMF) and if I do open it I'm reminded of how much better things are now. My thinking is that to refer to Premiere Pro as "FCP 8" does no-one any favours, least of all us as editors. Also, thinking FCP X is "iMovie Pro" is also just as misleading. At the end of the day we use the tools that work for us. At the end of the day it's about the product we produce for our clients, not the tool.

But this thread belies a larger discussion which I believe is a bit of a red herring and echoes a similar discussion I had with a bunch of professional editors from a large, national broadcaster…. Just what makes a "Pro" computer?

Both the machines I've listed above are the most powerful computers I've ever owned and amongst the most powerful computers I've ever used. I class myself as a professional and am happy to use both of these and be seen to use both these machines. I've never owned a Mac Pro.

Some people argue that they need expansion. I've been a long-time user of Firewire drives (both 400 and 800), even eSATA on occasion. Data transfer has become the bane of my working life. Thunderbolt is a revelation! I pretty much use T'bolt drives exclusively now (and USB3) and only revert back to good ole firewire when I have to. Yes, I still have firewire on my 17", but would happily give it up for the second T'bolt port. The Apple T'bolt to FW adapter works very well to connect a FW drive to a T'bolt-only equipped Mac.

FWIW I have used FCP X on a couple of Mac Pros in the last couple of months. Both performed poorly compared to using a reasonably specced iMac from the last couple of years. In a recent article on fcp.co, Peter Wiggins described the main problem with the iMac for professionals as being "[I]t is called an iMac and therefore it's not seen as a professional machine or taken seriously in a pro environment…. The iMac has an image problem of not being powerful enough, but having a clever design that looks good in offices. Once an editor has worked with FCPX on one of these, it will be hard to go back to an ageing Mac Pro." 

Surely the tower PC is ready to be consigned to history? I for one am not mourning the "passing" of the Mac Pro and eagerly await the next generation of computers from Apple. Think of it as bidding goodbye to Matt Smith…. the next regeneration will bring more excitement!

Finally, despite all the criticism levelled at Apple regarding their perceived lack of support for the professional market, I've never once considered switching platforms. Apple make both the hardware and the software I use to make my living.

Chris

Andrew Atkins

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Jun 10, 2013, 4:26:02 AM6/10/13
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Hi Chris

your post resonates totally with me, I  also live in the production world although my medium is sound production (although I also have FCP 7 which I use from time to time). I am on my second macbook pro 17" which I love I also have a 15" retina which I love now despite initial reservation about size and a loaded 27" imac. I went through the whole "do I need a tower thing" about 6 month ago and got an imac instead and don't regret it for one second

unfortunately the interface I need to use (focusrite Safire pro 40) does not have a t bolt option so I use a firewire with a Tbolt adapter which works perfectly. Since having the imac I have very little drop out when using large sample libraries as they are very CPU hungry and it is just a dream. Yes it looks pretty in my studio but I don't really care about that as noone gives a monkeys what hardware, software or interface I am using when listening to my music - for me I just care that it does what i want it to do and Apple never let me down

Fare well mac pro and thanks - I wonder if the next doctor will be a woman?

Andy


Hannah Mackinlay

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Jun 10, 2013, 3:13:38 PM6/10/13
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Thanks for your insight Chris, and I totally respect you as you know. All I can say is that my 2yr old i7 15" MBP does not support Mercury other than software emulation. It is as fast as my MacPro on basic renders but basically won't do anything else as the fan goes full blast. I find with the Mac Pro 8 core Zeon with a Quadro graphics card I can do two simultaneous renders to different res and at the same time upload multiple streams to servers and at the same time edit in CS6 (and play music in itunes) and it doesn't hang or lag at all and nor does the fan scream. Also I like having two identical size 23 in monitors to span stuff across that are not glossy rather than having to have one glossy iMac and another different monitor. The quadro card was a revelation but at £700 it had to be!

I do hate cs6 so called help system which is v poor compared to the established fcp series of manuals. You can't just look stuff up but need to wade through videos and stuff. I miss the detailed configurability of Compressor but not its glitches. There are some v annoying things in cs6 like proper paste attributes and shuffle markers on lift edits, match frame, etc which were better in fcp but the dreaded render bar is gone ! The keying is way better than fcp basic keying

It's all personal taste but I hate the fcpx system and esp the file event handling database thing. I like to have all my projects 'stuff' in one identifiable folder I can stick on a rugged or a backup as needed. I agree data transfer is a pain but until you can get 1TB hd's with thunderbolt for £60 like you can USB from anywhere as back up, etc its not relevant to me.

Nice to hear from you!

Rick Squires

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Jun 10, 2013, 3:42:24 PM6/10/13
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Not really enough to go on, but the days of easy access and upgrades look to be gone, at least on the internals. What will and will not be upgradable(GPU?) is not clear. It will run 3 4K displays though, which should be enough for you Hannah! 😄

It's clear that if you want a shed load of mechanical disks they are going to have to be in an external box. But I sort of wonder if the Pro world won't be shifting rapidly to SSD by the time this thing ships?

Might mean a healthy market for cylindrical external boxes?

I'm more sad about the lack of an update for Aperture, especially as LR5 is out today. I'm really thinking hard about switching now

Rick

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Dom Barnes

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Jun 11, 2013, 3:11:34 AM6/11/13
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External Thunderbolt RAIDs like the Pegasus drives are amazing for storage and speed. D you really want to be pulling off the side and pulling out drives?
I wouldn't assume that just because Aperture wasn't mentioned, it won't be updated. It's probably just not Keynote material over OSX, iOS 7 and the Mac Pro. 
Apple often silently update stuff after the keynote so don't jump ship just yet. 
Dom
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Robert Sharl

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Jun 11, 2013, 5:09:43 AM6/11/13
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I think you're right Dom. We really needed some new thinking around the Pro desktop. A diminishingly small target market and incremental upgrades was not going to sustain this product line. This is the first Mac Pro in some time that I'd consider purchasing (though I'm probably still more likely to opt for an iMac for my own needs). External disk arrays are the way to go. I'd also be astonished if this thing didn't blow existing video rendering set ups out of the water, especially by the time it launches and the OpenCL support is in all the relevant software (if it isn't already).

Pro apps weren't the focus yesterday. If Apple wasn't fully committed to developing them we wouldn't have the new Mac Pro; we'd have just seen the next Xeon crammed into the existing case.

Let's also wait and see what gets covered in WWDC sessions before making any final judgements. The conference lasts for a week, not just two hours on stage.

Robert

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Patrick Neame

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Jun 11, 2013, 5:30:55 AM6/11/13
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Meanwhile in other news....

they've dropped the hideous faux leather look of iCal. Thank the Lard for small mercies!
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