Ok, Hugh. You Asked For It. Guns.
The Last Real Marlboro Man
71976.news.dfncis.de> for anyone who wants the context.
Ok, Hugh. Not that I have any hope at all that this will penetrate your
brainwashed head, but here goes anyway. I'll deal with your two major
points one at a time, but first a few prefatory notes:
One. How in the world you made the leap of logic from the post on Israel
that you were quoting to an anti-gun rant is beyond my ability to
comprehend. Perhaps you could explain your reasoning.
Two. It is difficult, though not impossible, for an Eurpopean to
understand the facts of the American gun "controversy," for a couple of
reasons:
A. You have no experience with what it means to be an American, what
true liberty is, or with the seriousness with which we take our
liberties and their attendant responsibilites.
B. You are the product of years of indoctrination, as evidenced by
the anti gun "commercials" you cite, which portray gun owners as
"nutters playing with machine guns in one of your deserts and another
clip <s>hooting Varmints (priary dogs an endangered species) for fun
with a high velocity rifle."
This is precisely the kind of prejudicial stereotyping that wouldn't be
tolerated if applied to politically protected groups - in other words,
Hugh, it is ignorant and dishonest.
Three: I would strongly suggest that you refrain from using
Handguncontrol.com as your source of information for argument. They have
been thoroughly outed for using made-up statistics and "facts."
Four: You were not quoting from an "American webpage" as you said you
were, (as if that would mean anyting), but from an article written by an
Australian who himself was relying on distorted information as the basis
for his arguments.
Now, to your points:
First, as to your statement that "10 children are shot and killed every
day:
In your post, you added the word "accidental" to that number 10, a word
that even the author of the badly written "essay" from which you are
quoting does not use. According to his numbers, only 1 of the 10 is
killed accidentally.
Moreover, the number given, "10," includes "children" up to the age of
21 years, and is accounted for primarily by criminals such as drug
dealers and gang members. These are "children" who do not obtain guns by
legal means.
Additionally, according to the Centers for Disease Control, the number
of accidental deaths attributable to guns decreased dramatically in the
United states between 1991 and 1998 (by 43.3%, in fact), as have violent
deaths overall, a fact attributed by law enforcement experts to criminal
justice reform in the states and new law enforcement policies in local
jurisdictions, along with the strong economy, low unemployment rate,
decline in the "crack" cocaine trade, and the aging of juvenile gang
members responsible for drug trade-related violence in the late 1980s
and early 1990s. But how can this be? U.S. handgun production peaked in
1993 and 1994 (www.amfire.com), and the **number of Right to Carry
states rose from 17 to 31 between 1993-1998.** ("Right to Carry" means
that no qualified person who wants to carry a gun may be denied that
right for any reason.) In other words, more guns = less crime.
By contrast, the Draconian regulations on the law-abiding gun owners of
Great Britain have done nothing to reduce crime. On Jan. 16, 2000, the
London Times published an article about the increase in gun crimes, and
bemoaning the fact that there are an estimated three million
unregistered guns in the nation. Besides confirming the inescapable fact
that criminals don't bother to license their guns, the article stated
that fatal shootings in London more than doubled between 1998 and 1999,
and overall armed crime rose 10%.
Sounds to me like you Brits is nothing but a bunch of Wild-West yahoos.
Now to your second point, you cut and pasted this line:
"The 2nd amendment is NOT a right to own a gun. It is a right to be a
part of a STATE-organized militia"
This is utterly bogus, and betrays a lack of understanding of American
history and culture. The Founding Fathers clearly understood the
"militia" to mean the whole body of the citizenry capable of carrying a
gun, and people like you who focus on the preamble to the 2nd Amendment
are forced to ignore the second part, "the right of the *people* to keep
and bear arms *shall not be infringed.*
For a very recent example, the hero and patriot Todd Beamer was a
*militiaman* and fired the first "shots," as it were, in the war on
terrorism when he and his fellow unarmed militiamen attacked the
terrorists on the airliner that went down in a field in Pennsylvania.
Even liberal Constitutional scholars agree that the "militia" shall not
be construed to mean a state-run National Guard, but consists of an
armed citizenry. Constitutional scholars have noted that there is no
historical basis for the claim that the Amendment protects a so-called
"collective right" of the states. Stephen P. Halbrook writes, "If anyone
entertained this notion in the period during which the Constitution and
Bill of Rights were debated and ratified, it remains one of the most
closely guarded secrets of the eighteenth century, for *no known writing
surviving from the period between 1787 and 1791 states such a thesis." *
(Emphasis mine) (That Every Man Be Armed, Univ. of N.M. Press, 1984.)
Historian Joyce Lee Malcolm, testifying before Congress in 1995, said,
"It is very hard, sir, to find a historian who now believes it is only a
'collective right'...(T)here is a general consensus that in fact it is
an individual right." Prominent liberal constitutional scholars Laurence
H. Tribe and Akhil Reed Amar write, "(T)he Second Amendment's reference
to the people's 'right' to be armed cannot be trumped by the Amendment's
preamble. Besides, the 14th Amendment, which makes parts of the Bill of
Rights applicable to the states, reflected a broad agreement that
bearing arms was a 'privilege' of each citizen." ("Well-Regulated
Militias, and More," New York Times, 10/28/99.)
Every article of the Bill of Rights applies to individuals, and to
suppose that the 2nd Amendment is the only exception to that is absurdly
wishful thinking on the part of anti-liberty fanatics, with absolutely
nothing to back that idea up.
--
Wayne
Editor, The Tocquevillian Magazine
http://www.waynelutz.net/conservativevoice
------------------------------------------------------------
"Lex mala, lex nulla." --Thomas Aquinas
------------------------------------------------------------
--
Wayne
Editor, The Tocquevillian Magazine
http://www.waynelutz.net/conservativevoice
------------------------------------------------------------
"Lex mala, lex nulla." --Thomas Aquinas
------------------------------------------------------------
Hugh Watkins
"The Last Real Marlboro Man" <uwtiuzp...@sneakemail.com> wrote
snip
penetrate your
> brainwashed head
how do your know your head is not "brainwashed" by your culture ?
snip
>. You are the product of years of indoctrination, as evidenced by
> the anti gun "commercials" you cite, which portray gun owners as
> "nutters playing with machine guns in one of your deserts and another
> clip <s>hooting Varmints (priary dogs an endangered species) for fun
> with a high velocity rifle."
It was documentary footage from USA shown on UK TV
you guys filmed it and did it and sold it to the rest of the world.
snip
>
> Moreover, the number given, "10," includes "children" up to the age of
> 21 years, and is accounted for primarily by criminals such as drug
> dealers and gang members. These are "children" who do not obtain guns by
> legal means.
dead is dead
a junky shaking with abstinence could not remember if he shot you the next day
snip
> By contrast, the Draconian regulations on the law-abiding gun owners of
> Great Britain have done nothing to reduce crime. On Jan. 16, 2000, the
> London Times published an article about the increase in gun crimes, and
> bemoaning the fact that there are an estimated three million
> unregistered guns in the nation. Besides confirming the inescapable fact
> that criminals don't bother to license their guns, the article stated
> that fatal shootings in London more than doubled between 1998 and 1999,
> and overall armed crime rose 10%.
>
yes and we are working on it
> Sounds to me like you Brits is nothing but a bunch of Wild-West yahoos.
>
> Now to your second point, you cut and pasted this line:
>
> "The 2nd amendment is NOT a right to own a gun. It is a right to be a
> part of a STATE-organized militia"
actually if you guys what to kill each other because it is your (outdated) constitutional right
it is your problem not mine
It is part of the bad image USA has in the media in the rest of the world.
>>
Handguns and Children: A Lethal Combination
by Brendon Morris <<
I cannot identify the essayist
but Washington State Medical Association is a better source
http://www.wsma.org/forourpatients/handgun.html
lockboxes are standard in UK
http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&q=Center+to+Prevent+Handgun+Violence
http://www.abag.ca.gov/bayarea/junkguns/resources.htm
http://www.abag.ca.gov/about_abag/abag_members.html members of ABAG
read this http://www.bradycenter.org/stop2/facts/fs4.asp and tell me what is wrong
Hugh W
>> According to a February 1997 report by the Centers for Disease Control, the rate of firearm death of children 0 to 14 years old
is nearly twelve times higher in the U.S. than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. <<
>> "The firearm injury epidemic, due largely to handgun injuries, is ten times larger than the polio epidemic of the first half of
this century." <<
time to drop dangerous hobbies.
gekko
i read misc.writing, where i found "Hugh Watkins"
<hugh_w...@net.dialog.dk> saying:
>
> "The Last Real Marlboro Man" <uwtiuzp...@sneakemail.com> wrote
>
> snip
>
> penetrate your
>> brainwashed head
>
> how do your know your head is not "brainwashed" by your culture ?
Because our culture is inundated with the concept
of "Gun Prohibition Is Good".
Wayne's (and other's) arguments run counter to that.
>>. You are the product of years of indoctrination, as evidenced by
>> the anti gun "commercials" you cite, which portray gun owners as
>> "nutters playing with machine guns in one of your deserts and
>> another clip <s>hooting Varmints (priary dogs an endangered
>> species) for fun with a high velocity rifle."
>
>
> It was documentary footage from USA shown on UK TV
>
> you guys filmed it and did it and sold it to the rest of the
> world.
Yes, and all USans are exactly alike, think alike, look
alike, etc. Right? So if it was filmed by USans, it
must be, like, weird, man, because NO USans believe in
gun control or skewing of information, right?
>> Moreover, the number given, "10," includes "children" up to the
>> age of 21 years, and is accounted for primarily by criminals such
>> as drug dealers and gang members. These are "children" who do not
>> obtain guns by legal means.
>
> dead is dead
That's what I said. So the far greater number of children
(real children, not 21 year old children) who die from
being beaten, in car accidents, from sickness, starvation,
abandonment, knifings, suicide, drug overdose, SIDS,
birth defects, AIDS, cancer, etc are just as dead, right?
So calling out death by guns, including deliberate
deaths dealt to 21 year old "children" is a little
bent thinking, right?
And, btw, in the US, "children" aged 18 - 21 are considered,
legally, adults.
You kinda missed that point.
> a junky shaking with abstinence could not remember if he shot you
> the next day
non sequitur.
>> By contrast, the Draconian regulations on the law-abiding gun
>> owners of Great Britain have done nothing to reduce crime. On
>> Jan. 16, 2000, the London Times published an article about the
>> increase in gun crimes, and bemoaning the fact that there are an
>> estimated three million unregistered guns in the nation. Besides
>> confirming the inescapable fact that criminals don't bother to
>> license their guns, the article stated that fatal shootings in
>> London more than doubled between 1998 and 1999, and overall armed
>> crime rose 10%.
>>
>
> yes and we are working on it
Missing the point again -- your gun control laws are stricter,
but your armed crime is rising. Our gun control laws are more
lenient yet our armed crime dropped.
>> Sounds to me like you Brits is nothing but a bunch of Wild-West
>> yahoos.
>>
>> Now to your second point, you cut and pasted this line:
>>
>> "The 2nd amendment is NOT a right to own a gun. It is a right to
>> be a part of a STATE-organized militia"
>
>
> actually if you guys what to kill each other because it is your
> (outdated) constitutional right
Quite the opposite. We want to protect ourselves from being
killed by people who would break the law anyway and get
firearms anyway. Did you realize that firearms are a very
efficient way to kill people? So why should criminals have
the ability to efficiently kill me, but I not have the
ability to efficiently and effectively prevent me or my
family from being killed?
if you guys want to die at the hands of your armed criminal
element, that's your problem, not mine.
>
> it is your problem not mine
>
> It is part of the bad image USA has in the media in the rest of
> the world.
>
Oh dear! A bad image in the media of the rest of the world!
Oh my! Oh goodness! Oh horrors! What shall we do, what
shall we doooo? And there's old non-thinking Hugh, soaking
up what that mean ol' media of his is feeding him, without
giving it any critical thought whatsoever. He sure must
be a smart guy, to sit there and soak in all that stuff.
<snip>
That was fun, Hugh. Post something else, so I can ridicule
you again. :)
--
gekko
Of course I don't look busy... I did it right the first time.
Mirror Image
"Hugh Watkins" <hugh_w...@net.dialog.dk> wrote in message
news:9uug98$beqp9$1...@ID-71976.news.dfncis.de...
Why do British people worry so much about how the rest of the world views
the U.S? Why are they so concerned about how many junkies kill each other
in the U.S with guns? What is their fascination with America and our rights
to do certain thing where they are prohibited? Could it be envy? Could it
be drooling-at-the-mouth envy because they are cooped up on that tiny little
windswept island that's not even attached to a continent?
I've been an American about as long as Hugh has been a Brit. I don't give a
shit how the rest of the world views England. If England gets a bad report
card from the World Court in den Hague or wherever the hell it is, I could
not care less. I don't even care if they drive on the wrong side of the
street or that their cuisine or wotever is tasteless.
Brits, give it up. You will never be Americans. You will always be
Englishmen. Stop worrying over how to improve our image so you can
fantasize about how nice you would look driving a nice American car on the
right side of the street; or how attractive you would look walking down the
street wearing a Harley cap with a big ol' confederate flag emblazoned
across your back and a tattoo of Mom on your skinny little arm.
A Brit could never call himself The Last Real Marlboro Man without being
giggled at behind his back. Can you imagine a champion cricket player being
called The Limey Clipper? What a hoot.
It's all a dream. You will always be a Brit. So give it up and stop
worrying about the U.S. image abroad. But don't worry, when you and the
rest of the world dial for help, the Yanks will show up and kick the bully's
butt for you.
--Geno<born in the U.S.A.>Royer
Hugh Watkins
"Mirror Image" <sire...@mindspring.com> wrote
snip
> Why do British people worry so much about how the rest of the world views
> the U.S?
snip
>
> --Geno<born in the U.S.A.>Royer
why ask so many questions when you are not interested in any new ideas?
You could not digest an original thought or a new idea even if it jumped off your plate and bit your tongue. And you call yourself
a writer.
Has it not occured to you that I do not address you personally in this snake pit but put ideas up for discussion just as I do in RL
in a pub or cafe?
I hear daily by email how mw is a waste of time .. how venomous and insensitive you guys are . . . . .
all these ad hominem arguments are as much use and as dated as shoot outs in main street.
I realise you cannot help being a mental fossil,
Too bad.
Pity really,
Hugh W
The Last Real Marlboro Man
> It is part of the bad image USA has in the media in the rest of the
> world.
Now how did I know that this would lead to rousing, intelligent debate?
Gunslinger
(First, for the international crowd, a reiteration, complete and
unabridged...)
'A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,
the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.'
This amendment PROTECTS the right to bear arms - since, by definition, a
right IS NOT granted. It simply exists - for as long as it is employed. A
Right can only vanish only when 'stolen'. Now, given that, the thrust of the
'preamble' to the unequivocal right comes in the form of 'well-regulated' -
i.e, that guns will not proliferate indiscriminately, especially into the
hands of children or the clinically and criminally insane. Indeed, in an
ideal world, this Amendment would be defined as: All American Citizens would
be given fire-arm safety training as soon as they are of age, and then (and
ONLY THEN) be allowed to purchase firearms for the purpose of: 1) Hunting
dangerous or delicious animals, 2) Protecting their God-given rights of
'Life, Liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness..., and 3) Keeping the King of
England out of their faces...
(Apologies. I couldn't resist that last one...)
However, the flip-side of any Right is the attendant Responsibility - and,
in this case, that means tougher laws for those who use this Right for
illegal or immoral purposes...
William Penrose
<uwtiuzp...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
> B. You are the product of years of indoctrination, as evidenced by
>the anti gun "commercials" you cite, which portray gun owners as
>"nutters playing with machine guns in one of your deserts and another
>clip <s>hooting Varmints (priary dogs an endangered species) for fun
>with a high velocity rifle."
They do not shoot at varmints. They shoot at Amtrak trains. A
conductor once told me that Amtrak had to spend millions of dollars
installing bulletproof glass in its passenger cars because of people
exercising their Second Amendment rights on trains.
>This is precisely the kind of prejudicial stereotyping that wouldn't be
>tolerated if applied to politically protected groups - in other words,
>Hugh, it is ignorant and dishonest.
Are you saying gun people are a weak and fragile minority.
>Three: I would strongly suggest that you refrain from using
>Handguncontrol.com as your source of information for argument. They have
>been thoroughly outed for using made-up statistics and "facts."
*Everybody* bends their statistics. I have it on good authority that
80& of statistics are faked.
>Additionally, according to the Centers for Disease Control, the number
>of accidental deaths attributable to guns decreased dramatically in the
>United states between 1991 and 1998 (by 43.3%, in fact), ... But how
>can this be? U.S. handgun production peaked in
>1993 and 1994 (www.amfire.com), and the **number of Right to Carry
>states rose from 17 to 31 between 1993-1998.**
I would make the argument that the prosperity due to the Clinton
Administration caused the decrease in violent crime. We may expect a
rise in the near future.
(Foregoing comment deliberately intended to cause foaming at the
mouth.)
>"The 2nd amendment is NOT a right to own a gun. It is a right to be a
>part of a STATE-organized militia"
>...
>Even liberal Constitutional scholars agree that the "militia" shall not
>be construed to mean a state-run National Guard, but consists of an
>armed citizenry.
Hugh, he's gotcha on this one. This is, I'm convinced, what the
Framers meant. It also meant open season on Redcoats.
Bill Penrose
Marty Fouts
wpen...@customsensorsolutions.com (William Penrose) writes:
[snip]
> Hugh, he's gotcha on this one. This is, I'm convinced, what the
> Framers meant. It also meant open season on Redcoats.
>
"For a people who are free and who mean to remain so, a well-organized
and armed militia is their best security."
"A militia so organized that its effective portions can be called to
any point in the Union, or volunteers instead of them to serve a
sufficient time, are means which may always be ready yet never preying
on our resources until actually called into use. They will maintain
the public interests while a more permanent force shall be in course
of preparation."
"[The] governor [is] constitutionally the commander of the militia of
the State, that is to say, of every man in it able to bear arms."
"We must train and classify the whole of our male citizens, and make
military instruction a regular part of collegiate education. We can
never be safe till this is done."
"Two measures will enable us to... defend ourselves. 1. To organize
the militia into classes, assigning to each class the duties for which
it is fitted"
The gentleman from Virginia, who, if I recall correctly, played some
small role in the framing of the constitution, saw the 2nd amendment
as providing for the trained, organized, state-government controlled
armed force of first resort that he thought would serve in an
emergency while an army was raised -- as he also believed that
standing armies were a very bad thing.
He was not alone in that belief.
But the gun-nuts, like so many others demanding entitlement want the
privilige without the responsibility. They want their guns but not to
be part of Jefferson's militia. And, they tend to be quite willing to
accept a standing army.
The Last Real Marlboro Man
news:3c12de04...@news.anet.com:
> Hugh, he's gotcha on this one. This is, I'm convinced, what the
> Framers meant. It also meant open season on Redcoats.
Funny thing is, you are right. That is, if you extend "Redcoats" to mean
anyone who would trample on the freedoms, or attempt to revoke the
freedoms, of Americans.
Bill Funke
But I'm not sure anyone else did.
Since it is by now firmly established that the US population is firmly
divided on the subject, and all sides consider themselves to have the
authority of the Constitution and its framers, the Law, common sense
and God on their side, it is, of course, time for another 500+ gun
thread. Or two. Or more.
To save time, perhaps billo and a few others could just post the
thousand or so urls they came up with the last time.
Paul Hartman
Gunslinger wrote:
*Enforcement of the laws, not mere discussion of them. That's where we
still have some serious problems.
Paul Hartman
William Penrose wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Dec 2001 01:20:35 GMT, The Last Real Marlboro Man
> <uwtiuzp...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>
> > B. You are the product of years of indoctrination, as evidenced by
> >the anti gun "commercials" you cite, which portray gun owners as
> >"nutters playing with machine guns in one of your deserts and another
> >clip <s>hooting Varmints (priary dogs an endangered species) for fun
> >with a high velocity rifle."
>
> They do not shoot at varmints. They shoot at Amtrak trains. A
> conductor once told me that Amtrak had to spend millions of dollars
> installing bulletproof glass in its passenger cars because of people
> exercising their Second Amendment rights on trains.
>
Any cites on this? The trains part.
Davida Chazan - The Chocolate Lady
2001 07:08:30 -0000 in <2001120907083...@gacracker.org> that:
>
>Also wish I could remember which 007 movie bad guy was getting ready to
>destroy largish portions of the free world, and said something to the
>effect of "Why are you so interested, Mr. Bond? Your pitiful little island
>isn't even on the target list." Cracked me up, it did. Couldn't even hear
>the next four or five lines over my own laughter.
Diamonds are Forever. The precise quote is:
Blofeld: I expected at least one head of state. Your pitiful little island
hasn't even been threatened.
I found a place you can even download the wav file (called island.wav) here
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Land/8672/daf.htm
--
Davida Chazan (The Chocolate Lady)
<davida @ jdc . org . il>
Visit "Like Chocolate for Poetry" http://pub58.ezboard.com/bdrchazan
My Homepage - http://davidachazan.homestead.com/
Davida Chazan - The Chocolate Lady
2001 02:53:54 -0000 in <9uujof$b9m2g$1...@ID-71976.news.dfncis.de> that:
>"Mirror Image" <sire...@mindspring.com> wrote
>
>snip
>
>> Why do British people worry so much about how the rest of the world views
>> the U.S?
>snip
>>
>> --Geno<born in the U.S.A.>Royer
>
>why ask so many questions when you are not interested in any new ideas?
Why do you post URL's that are obviously put there as trolls? Geno's question
could have provoked a real answer from you. But you are obviously not
interested in answering him, so you are no better than you think he is.
>You could not digest an original thought or a new idea even if it jumped off >your plate and bit your tongue.
And you could? I haven't seen any proof of that here so far.
>Has it not occured to you that I do not address you personally in this snake >pit but put ideas up for discussion just as I do in RL
>in a pub or cafe?
If we're a "snake pit" you're better off at a pub or cafe.
>I hear daily by email how mw is a waste of time .. how venomous and >insensitive you guys are . . . . .
Some are, some aren't.
>all these ad hominem arguments are as much use and as dated as shoot outs in >main street.
Much like your continuing to compare current events with irrelevant experiences
from your horn-blowing WW2 days.
>I realise you cannot help being a mental fossil,
If Geno is a mental fossil, what does that make you?
>Too bad.
>Pity really,
Pity yourself.
(Troll.)
Davida Chazan - The Chocolate Lady
on Sun, 09 Dec 2001 02:55:45 GMT in
<Xns9171DEDEE3E8...@24.12.106.199> that:
>
>"Hugh Watkins" <hugh_w...@net.dialog.dk> wrote in
>news:9uug98$beqp9$1...@ID-71976.news.dfncis.de:
>
>> It is part of the bad image USA has in the media in the rest of the
>> world.
>
>Now how did I know that this would lead to rousing, intelligent debate?
>
Well, count your blessings, Wayne.
At least you didn't get bombarded with thousands of irrelevant URLs.
But if you're looking for something intelligent on the subject, I'll say this.
The media - at least in this part of the world - doesn't impart a totally "bad
image" of the USA. Of course, the media can be slanted this way or the other,
and one can always find both sides of any story, *if* you are willing to look.
Since I am an interested party (being a US citizen), I do look for both sides of
the story. But that's me.
My experience - limited as it may be - has shown me that if you are prejudiced
to want something to appear in a certain way, you can and will find the sources
to back up your own opinion, and avoid those that contridict you. In this
instance, it appears that Hugh has decided that the USA has a bad image. Hugh
will find every opportunity to prove himself right, and not bother to look for
contrary sources. In my book, when someone does this, I usually write them off
as being trolls.
(Just one person's opinion.)
Mirror Image
>
> "Mirror Image" <sire...@mindspring.com> wrote
>
> snip
>
> > Why do British people worry so much about how the rest of the world
views
> > the U.S?
> snip
> >
> > --Geno<born in the U.S.A.>Royer
>
> why ask so many questions when you are not interested in any new ideas?
The last time you had a new idea was when Winnie was still living at Number
Ten.
> You could not digest an original thought or a new idea even if it jumped
off your plate and bit your tongue. And you call yourself a writer.
Like it's some kind of new idea that the rest of the world hates the U.S.
because we have opulence and it (you) are still sucking hind tit? I can
digest that completely, but can you?
> Has it not occured to you that I do not address you personally in this
snake pit but put ideas up for discussion just as I do in RL
> in a pub or cafe?
Obviously it has occurred to you that I do address you personally. It
stings, doesn't it? The truth always does.
>
> I hear daily by email how mw is a waste of time .. how venomous and
insensitive you guys are . . . . .
>
> all these ad hominem arguments are as much use and as dated as shoot outs
in main street.
>
> I realise you cannot help being a mental fossil,
>
> Too bad.
>
> Pity really,
>
> Hugh W
Then pack up and haul ass, Englishman. If the kitchen is too hot, sack out
in the water closet.
--Geno<Glad I could clear that up for you>Royer
Donna deMedicis
Hugh Watkins wrote:
> <snipped it -- heard it before. That old Johnny One Note thang>
Hugh, you really hate America, don't you?
And I don't blame you -- I read your posts about daily occurrences of
people shooting each other dead in the streets while simultaneously
spitting on the mentally ill, and hell, I don't like that place either.
Would it surprise you that this place you describe bares absolutely no
resemblance to where I live? I don't see homeless people, I walk the
streets at night in absolute safety, and every gun owner I know uses
guns responsibly? As in only shoots targets, game hunting, or people
that I'd shoot, also?
I realize that I'm probably contributing to some ugly American
impression, but explain this to me: why should I give a rat's ass what
you think about my country?
And this place where you live -- you've solved ALL problems? It's
utopia? If it's not, why don't you quit worrying your pretty little
head about my country and go make your's a better one?
And if I took it upon myself to dissect your country day after day after
day after day after day after day and ignore every single speck of
anything positive and only point to your zits, would at some point some
kinda national pride button get pushed, and wouldn't you want to snap my
head off like a shrimp?
Why are we different? Why are we expected to read posts where day after
day after day after day after day our negatives are highlighted, while
ignoring any and every thing that is positive about this glorious
country without finally wanting to tell you to kiss my rosy red ass?
Would I disappoint you if you knew that I believe that The United States
of America is the best thing since sliced bread, and lately I've been
waking up every day tickled that I'm an American?
Well, I can't do it any longer. You can kiss my rosy red ass.
Donna (Damn you, you made me cuss)
gekko
Funke) cracked knuckles, set fingers to keyboard and thought, "the
denizens of misc.writing will REALLY be impressed when they read this!"
> To save time, perhaps billo and a few others could just post the
> thousand or so urls they came up with the last time.
I warned 'em. I did. Too late though. Thank goodness for
you that the topic line contains the word "guns" and is
easily killfiled or ignored, yes?
That way those who get active enjoyment from this circular
and never-ending debate may feel free to enjoy, and those
who grow weary of it may not be bothered by it.
You -do- know what I mean, don't you?
--
gekko
This tagline is password protected. To view type Ctrl-Alt-Del.
gekko
<hugh_w...@net.dialog.dk> cracked knuckles, set fingers to
keyboard and thought, "the denizens of misc.writing will REALLY be
impressed when they read this!"
<snip>
> Has it not occured to you that I do not address you personally in
> this snake pit but put ideas up for discussion just as I do in RL
> in a pub or cafe?
No. And why should it? This is not a RL pub or cafe, you
stand by the words you write here, and the way people choose
to take them, and you get to accept the reactions as they
come. If people read you as deliberately prodding and
poking them with statements you *know* will cause an
emotional reaction in them (implying Davida's a poor
Mother because she lives in her home in Israel, you pathetic
wanker!) then grow the fuck up and deal with the notion that
you, Hugh, are the troll you pretend to despise.
>
> I hear daily by email how mw is a waste of time .. how venomous
> and insensitive you guys are . . . . .
Sure. As insensitive as you. Maybe worse. I'd say you're
whining more about the way people respond to you than talking
about any mystical magical secret e-mail you may receive.
>
> all these ad hominem arguments are as much use and as dated as
> shoot outs in main street.
So are all your mischaracterizations, lies, rants and
"provocative" words, but you don't stop, now do you? So
why should anyone else?
It boils down, Hugh, to your ideas versus the ideas of
others. You don't like Geno's. He doesn't like yours.
He gets your goat, you get other's goats. Life goes on.
It's hilarious, but each of you are prodding and provoking
in your own ways, so you might do well to keep that in
mind before you go off on another self-pitying whine.
Mirror Image
"William Penrose" <wpen...@customsensorsolutions.com> wrote in message
news:3c12de04...@news.anet.com...
> On Sun, 09 Dec 2001 01:20:35 GMT, The Last Real Marlboro Man
> <uwtiuzp...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>
> > B. You are the product of years of indoctrination, as evidenced by
> >the anti gun "commercials" you cite, which portray gun owners as
> >"nutters playing with machine guns in one of your deserts and another
> >clip <s>hooting Varmints (priary dogs an endangered species) for fun
> >with a high velocity rifle."
>
> They do not shoot at varmints. They shoot at Amtrak trains. A
> conductor once told me that Amtrak had to spend millions of dollars
> installing bulletproof glass in its passenger cars because of people
> exercising their Second Amendment rights on trains.
Hmmm. Okay, let's do the math. "millions of dollars" is plural, so it
must mean two or three million. Let's assume three million.
Let's assume that it costs $10,000 to replace one window in an Amtrak train.
Prolly less, because with all those broken windoes they must have to buy in
bulk to get them cheaper.
So, that would mean 300 windows shot out of Amtrak trains every year.
Does anyone on this newsgroup (except the liberals) really think that 300
shootings a year at Amtrak would not bring the FBI onto the scene to track
down these snipers with the same fervor the FBI hunted the uni bomber and
other across-state lines shooters?
I have ridden Amtrak on more than a half dozen occasions, and I've never had
a window shot out, neither do I know anyone who was on a train when this
occurred. I think it's bogus.
My opinion is that either Penrose made up that lie (a typical liberal ploy),
or else he believed the lie told him by another naive liberal.
--Geno
Blanche Nonken
> (Just one person's opinion.)
There's a word that should be stricken from English.
"Just."
Mirror Image
"Davida Chazan - The Chocolate Lady" <drch...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:WwHQ7.54919$xS6....@www.newsranger.com...
The question still looms: Why is Hugh concerned that the U.S. *might* have
a bad global image? What is it to him? What personal agenda causes him to
voice that idea? Does he in fact love the U.S. so much that he wants to
save it from its bad image? I think not. Mostly he's just full of
pomposity and hot air.
Not like me, of course--who is level-headed, always Right, fair, and humble
almost to a fault.
--Geno<standing in God's shadow lest Sol tan his hide>Royer
Mirror Image
"Blanche Nonken" <bla...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:93s61ug846nfglvfa...@4ax.com...
You mean it should read; "freedom, liberty and ice for all"?
--Geno<Born in the U.S.A.>Royer
The Last Real Marlboro Man
"Donna deMedicis" <adl...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C136B86...@mindspring.com...
> Donna (Damn you, you made me cuss)
And I, for one, am appalled.
- Wayne
PJ
: "Donna deMedicis" <adl...@mindspring.com> wrote
:
: > Donna (Damn you, you made me cuss)
:
: And I, for one, am appalled.
:
: - Wayne
:
This reminds me: Did Stan ever pay you the 5 bucks he owes you for
saying you didn't know what "appalled" means? I distinctly remember
that bet.
Ciao,
PJ
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Peggy J. Parks
www.pjparks.com
The Last Real Marlboro Man
"Marty Fouts" <usene...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:uu1v1v...@usa.net...> The gentleman from Virginia, who, if I recall
correctly, played some
> small role in the framing of the constitution, saw the 2nd amendment
> as providing for the trained, organized, state-government controlled
> armed force of first resort that he thought would serve in an
> emergency while an army was raised -- as he also believed that
> standing armies were a very bad thing.
>
> He was not alone in that belief
Only Winston Fouts, so aptly named, could post quotes that say exactly the
opposite of that which he is trying to prove, and do so with a straight
face.
Such as, "the militia of
the State, that is to say, of every man in it able to bear arms."
"every man in the State" who is able to bear arms.
"We must train and classify the whole of our male citizens, and make
military instruction a regular part of collegiate education. We can
never be safe till this is done."
"The whole of our male citizens," Winston.
That Jefferson's vision of training all of the citzenry didn't come to pass
is utterly beside the point.
And since you insist on quoting Jefferson to the exclusion of all others, he
also said:
On every question of construction (of the Constitution) let us carry
ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the
spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be
squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable
one in which it was passed." (Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson,
June 12, 1823, The Complete Jefferson, p. 322)
Kind of like what you are doing, Winston.
And:
"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (Thomas Jefferson,
Proposal to Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J. Boyd,
Ed., 1950] )
Now, how do you reconcile that quote with your anti-liberty rants, Winston?
- Wayne
The Last Real Marlboro Man
correctly, played some
> small role in the framing of the constitution, saw the 2nd amendment
> as providing for the trained, organized, state-government controlled
> armed force of first resort that he thought would serve in an
> emergency while an army was raised -- as he also believed that
> standing armies were a very bad thing.
>
Only Winston Fouts, so aptly named, could post quotes that say exactly the
opposite of that which he is trying to prove, and do so with a straight
face.
Such as, "the militia of
the State, that is to say, of every man in it able to bear arms."
"every man in the State" who is able to bear arms.
"We must train and classify the whole of our male citizens, and make
military instruction a regular part of collegiate education. We can
never be safe till this is done."
"The whole of our male citizens," Winston.
Donna deMedicis
Yeah, well, you can kiss my ass, too.
Once you start, it's hard to stop. Cussing that is, not kissing my ass.
When I first discovered usenet, the cussing saddened me. Not because I
was offended, but because it was a waste of cussing.
Effective cussing is used sparingly. It is an exclamation point. My
father has cussed maybe 20 times in my 46 years, and each time family
members have sat up and taken note, and modified their behavior because
Good Golly Moses, Daddy just cussed.
Here on usnet, the "fuckings" and the "cunts" flow. And you just
cheapen the entire cussing process.
Donna
PJ
: The Last Real Marlboro Man wrote:
:
: > > Donna (Damn you, you made me cuss)
: >
: > And I, for one, am appalled.
: >
: > - Wayne
:
: Yeah, well, you can kiss my ass, too.
:
: Once you start, it's hard to stop. Cussing that is, not kissing
: my ass.
:
: When I first discovered usenet, the cussing saddened me. Not
: because I was offended, but because it was a waste of
: cussing.
:
: Effective cussing is used sparingly. It is an exclamation point.
: My father has cussed maybe 20 times in my 46 years, and
: each time family members have sat up and taken note, and
: modified their behavior because Good Golly Moses, Daddy
: just cussed.
:
: Here on usnet, the "fuckings" and the "cunts" flow. And you
: just cheapen the entire cussing process.
I think it's because of your southern accent. You southern ladies, you
Scarlett-types, you mint-julep-sucking types, you
sit-on-the-veranda-and-fan-yourselves types, when you cuss it's--oh I
don't know, it's blasphemous or something. Just don't seem right to
me.
I think that's why.
Now us Northern Girls, well it's right as rain for us to cuss.
Donna deMedicis
That is because we were raised right.
Now you, PJ. You have single-handedly cheapened fucking. Fucking is a
fine word, when you are in the mood to cuss someone out. But when you
toss it out there with the regularity of "please pass the fucking
biscuits," you just ruin it.
Gekko, too. She cheapens fucking.
You both should be ashamed, what you've done to a fine and useful cuss word.
Donna
The Last Real Marlboro Man
"PJ" <p...@pjparks.com> wrote in message
news:ivLQ7.24083$Yy.297312@rwcrnsc53...
> This reminds me: Did Stan ever pay you the 5 bucks he owes you for
> saying you didn't know what "appalled" means? I distinctly remember
> that bet
Even if he hadn't, I wouldn't complain. I ain't stupid. (Hi, Winston!)
- Wayne
PJ
: Now you, PJ. You have single-handedly cheapened fucking.
: Fucking is a fine word, when you are in the mood to cuss
: someone out. But when you toss it out there with the
: regularity of "please pass the fucking biscuits," you just ruin it.
:
: Gekko, too. She cheapens fucking.
:
: You both should be ashamed, what you've done to a fine and
: useful cuss word.
:
: Donna
Consider me properly ashamed.
Fuck, I just hate it when you're mad at me.
Ciao,
PJ
--
Donna deMedicis
It is not you fault that you were not raised right.
Make gekko come and be ashamed, too.
Donna
Stan (the Man)
I made a donation to the Iron City brewing company.
Stan
gekko
news:3C1394C2...@mindspring.com?
> Make gekko come
I am a-fucking-ghast. aGHAST, I tell you. First
you cheapen the impact of kissing rosy red asses, and now
this. This cheap publicity stunt. This ...
Donna, this sort of thing belongs in e-mail, NOT
the fucking newsgroup. Y'hear?
--
gekko (aghast)
EMACS (Esc Meta Alt Ctrl Shift) - How convenient!!!
PJ
: > > This reminds me: Did Stan ever pay you the 5 bucks he
: > > owes you for saying you didn't know what "appalled"
: > > means? I distinctly remember that bet
: >
: > Even if he hadn't, I wouldn't complain. I ain't stupid. (Hi,
: > Winston!)
:
: I made a donation to the Iron City brewing company.
:
: Stan
You know, don't you, that if you got any "tangible goods" (that
includes drinkable) for that donation, you have to deduct the value
before declaring this on your income tax.
Mess with me and I'll report you to the cops.
Ciao,
PJ
--
PJ
: > > This reminds me: Did Stan ever pay you the 5 bucks he
: > > owes you for saying you didn't know what "appalled"
: > > means? I distinctly remember that bet
: >
: > Even if he hadn't, I wouldn't complain. I ain't stupid. (Hi,
: > Winston!)
:
: I made a donation to the Iron City brewing company.
:
: Stan
You know, don't you, that if you got any "tangible goods" (that
includes drinkable) for that donation, you have to deduct the value
before declaring this on your income tax.
Mess with me and I'll report you to the cops.
Ciao,
PJ
--
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Peggy J. Parks
www.pjparks.com
PJ
: Donna deMedicis <adl...@mindspring.com> let the dogs out in
:
: > Make gekko come
:
: I am a-fucking-ghast. aGHAST, I tell you. First
: you cheapen the impact of kissing rosy red asses, and now
: this. This cheap publicity stunt. This ...
:
: Donna, this sort of thing belongs in e-mail, NOT
: the fucking newsgroup. Y'hear?
Yeah. And what's worse, she asked ME to do it. At least she coulda
asked one of the guys, not me. She knows very well I'm a heterosexual
female. She cheapens homosexuality.
She owes the world an apology for that. I'm thinking she won't
apologize though. She walked behind horses yesterday. It probably made
her moody.
Ciao,
PJ
PJ
:
: Zowie. Gekko coming, PJ fucking, Donna offering her ass up
: for a nuzzle....this is better'n mud wrestling at the strip club.
: Y'all get a mention of tits tossed in here somehow, and I'm
: gonna skip Hooters today and stay home to read the NG.
:
: - AD -
Tits.
There. I mentioned it. Now stay home.
Ciao,
PJ
William Penrose
<uwtiuzp...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>wpen...@customsensorsolutions.com (William Penrose) wrote in
>news:3c12de04...@news.anet.com:
>
>> Hugh, he's gotcha on this one. This is, I'm convinced, what the
>> Framers meant. It also meant open season on Redcoats.
>
>Funny thing is, you are right. That is, if you extend "Redcoats" to mean
>anyone who would trample on the freedoms, or attempt to revoke the
>freedoms, of Americans.
It's not funny at all. I came from Canada with strong predispositions
and it's taken me two decades to understand. I don't necessarily like
the uncontrolled proliferation of guns. I only have to look at the
bullet hole still in my lab window to reinforce that. But now I accept
them as part of the American character, which taken together is a
positive thing. I take the bad with the good.
Moreover, knowing that (statistics again) more people would rather
tinker with Amendment One than Amendment Two makes me want to keep the
Constitution on its pedestal, out of the reach of the Ashcrofts and
Lotts of the world.
Bill Penrose
William Penrose
<hart...@norlight.net> wrote:
>William Penrose wrote:
>> They do not shoot at varmints. They shoot at Amtrak trains. A
>> conductor once told me
>
> Any cites on this? The trains part.
He said mainly the southwest, AZ, NM, TX.
Bill
William Penrose
<sire...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>"William Penrose" <wpen...@customsensorsolutions.com> wrote in message
>> They do not shoot at varmints. They shoot at Amtrak trains.
>
>So, that would mean 300 windows shot out of Amtrak trains every year.
No, they replaced all passenger car and loco windows. I think the
point was to prevent future shootings of passengers. Kind of like one
hijacking makes every airport install security, eh?
Bill Penrose
Blanche Nonken
Blanche Nonken
> Here on usnet, the "fuckings" and the "cunts" flow.
Not for another 3 weeks.
PJ
: Donna deMedicis <adl...@mindspring.com> wrote:
:
: > Here on usnet, the "fuckings" and the "cunts" flow.
:
: Not for another 3 weeks.
Why did I know that you, of all people, would do something with the
word "flow"? I don't know. I just knew.
Ciao,
PJ
--
Bill Funke
by a cloud of electrons spinning about my head, and the Voices saying:
wpen...@customsensorsolutions.com (William Penrose) has left this
deathless prose in misc.writing"
Probably won't be many cites. A guy I know was an LIRR engineer on
the Greenport run and he tells me they keep that sort of thing out of
the press when they can. They don't like to scare the passengers or
give anyone ideas.
Other things they don't like to talk about are the suicides jumping in
front of a locomotive and the large rocks and burning gas grills put
on the tracks to wreck the trains. And the stolen copper cable
between the signals in the lonelier runs of track. Or the signals
that they kids change to put a fast train on a siding.
All of which, including occasional gunfire, has happened to him in 30-
years on the job.
Stan (the Man)
There is absolutely nothing tangibly good or drinkable about Iron City
beer.
Stan
PJ
: > : I made a donation to the Iron City brewing company.
: > :
: > : Stan
: >
: > You know, don't you, that if you got any "tangible
: > goods" (that includes drinkable) for that donation, you have
: > to deduct the value before declaring this on your income tax.
: >
: > Mess with me and I'll report you to the cops.
:
: There is absolutely nothing tangibly good or drinkable about
: Iron City beer.
:
: Stan
Well, you're in the clear then. I'm sure the IRS will understand.
After all, who would argue with YOU? I sure as hell wouldn't. You
scare me.
Stan (the Man)
BOO!
Stan
Paul Hartman
William Penrose wrote:
Sounds very odd, one would think that the local cops and the FBI would
both take a very strong interest in this kind of thing.
Blanche Nonken
> "Blanche Nonken" <bla...@newsguy.com> wrote
> : Donna deMedicis <adl...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> :
> : > Here on usnet, the "fuckings" and the "cunts" flow.
> :
> : Not for another 3 weeks.
>
> Why did I know that you, of all people, would do something with the
> word "flow"? I don't know. I just knew.
It just came out that way.
gekko
<Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>! And look! On 09 Dec
2001 s/he wrote something in misc.writing! See?
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> On Sun, 09 Dec 2001 17:54:54 GMT, gekko
> <ba0go...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>
>>Donna deMedicis <adl...@mindspring.com> let the dogs out in
>>news:3C1394C2...@mindspring.com?
>>
>>> Make gekko come
>>
>>I am a-fucking-ghast. aGHAST, I tell you. First
>>you cheapen the impact of kissing rosy red asses, and now
>>this. This cheap publicity stunt. This ...
>>
>>Donna, this sort of thing belongs in e-mail, NOT
>>the fucking newsgroup. Y'hear?
>
> Zowie. Gekko coming, PJ fucking, Donna offering her ass up for a
> nuzzle....this is better'n mud wrestling at the strip club. Y'all
> get a mention of tits tossed in here somehow, and I'm gonna skip
> Hooters today and stay home to read the NG.
>
you got nipples?
--
gekko
Mystery is a resource, like coal or goal, and its preservation is a
fine thing. -- Tim Cahill
gekko
> He said mainly the southwest, AZ,
i thought amtrak shut down in az?
Mirror Image
Well, in typical liberal fashion, you told a lie and then crawfished out of
it; but no one was fooled. I'll be watching.
--Geno<who hates liberalism>Royer
Hugh Watkins
"Donna deMedicis" <adl...@mindspring.com> wrote
> Hugh, you really hate America, don't you?
suburban lot you are
you have abandoned your cities to the poor
Yesterday I listened to opera from the Met as I often do on Saturday evenings
Today Philip Glass again
I enjoy US culture but .....
you know the rest, it is only one world and you guys are too greedy and wasteful
If you guys are are innumerate ?????
>> Ignorance = illiterate
Excerpt: "..., rude, empty, half-learned, illiterate; unread, uninformed,..."
http://www.thesaurus.com/cgi-bin/search?config=roget&words=illiterate
Unfamiliar with mathematical concepts and methods <<<
well have no training in reading statistics
I am casting pearls before swine.
And you are ignorant and careless of the truth about USA outside your bourgeois middle class world.
bye bye
Hugh W
PJ
: "Donna deMedicis" <adl...@mindspring.com> wrote
:
: > Hugh, you really hate America, don't you?
:
: suburban lot you are
: you have abandoned your cities to the poor
<...>
:
: you know the rest, it is only one world and you guys are too
: greedy and wasteful
:
: If you guys are are innumerate ?????
<...>
: And you are ignorant and careless of the truth about USA
: outside your bourgeois middle class world.
:
: bye bye
:
: Hugh W
The remarks you make are horribly insulting to our country Hugh, and
to us as the people who live here. But I'm sure you already know that.
PJ
Donna deMedicis
Hugh Watkins wrote:
>
> "Donna deMedicis" <adl...@mindspring.com> wrote
>
> > Hugh, you really hate America, don't you?
>
> suburban lot you are
> you have abandoned your cities to the poor
Hugh, if you get much dumber, you'll be a rock. I don't live in the
suburbs. I am surrounded by cows and horses. And dirt roads. And tiny
little towns, population about 300 each. We go to work at blue collar
jobs, we drive beer trucks and delivery bread to grocery stores, we love
our mama's, and cherish our children, we go to church, and we care about
each other.
You don't know us, you never will. And you know what, buddy? If you
came here, to my here, you'd be treated with respect. Although you
don't deserve it, you little worm, because most of my neighbors are
better people than me.
>
> Yesterday I listened to opera from the Met as I often do on Saturday evenings
>
> Today Philip Glass again
>
> I enjoy US culture but .....
You're obsessed with US culture. You're a US Groupie. And you really
hate what you can't have.
>
> you know the rest, it is only one world and you guys are too greedy and wasteful.
All of us? You're making this sweeping statement about an entire country?
You're dumb.
>
> If you guys are are innumerate ?????
We are are not innumerate.
>
> >> Ignorance = illiterate
> Excerpt: "..., rude, empty, half-learned, illiterate; unread, uninformed,..."
> http://www.thesaurus.com/cgi-bin/search?config=roget&words=illiterate
>
> Unfamiliar with mathematical concepts and methods <<<
Okay! Lemme see if I'm following you. We all live in the suburbs,
we're greedy and wasteful, and we are unfamiliar with mathematical
concepts and methods.
>
> well have no training in reading statistics
> I am casting pearls before swine.
Oh! We have no training in reading statistics?
You been drinking? Are you drunk?
>
> And you are ignorant and careless of the truth about USA outside your bourgeois middle class world.
And you a tiny little man, lacking in grace or substance or character.
Don't you realize, you little fart, that many, many people in the middle
class worked their ass off to get here and they cherish every time they
can write a check for a year's worth of car insurance and still feed
their family ?
You post about a country that you envy but that you don't understand.
And instead of using a international forum to ask intelligent questions
and learn, you natter on that we (dig this) are unfamiliar with
mathematical concepts and methods.
>
> bye bye
Eat dirt and die, you little cretin.
>
> Hugh W
Donna d.
gekko
deMedicis <adl...@mindspring.com> wrote misc.writing saying:
> And you a tiny little man
no, hon. what he is is a bigot, who imagines himself
an intellectual. he hulks in his chair, awash in
the glow of his screen, and imagines himself in a pub
surrounded by his mates. he spouts bigotted crap, truly
thinking it is "discussion". he is amazed
that it inspires ire. he would be more amazed if, instead
of phosphors or even blue-collar drinking british
drinking buddies, he were surrounded by any-color-collar
americans who would likely rearrange his features to
something that pleases them more.
but hugh, you're not so brave, are you? no. you strike
me as the sort of man who may pretend he is better than
the Americans he envies, but who would likely be rude to
a waitress.
this is not the sort of man worthy, Donna, of your
gentle attention.
--
gekko
Hugh Watkins
"PJ" <p...@pjparks.com> wrote
snip
> The remarks you make are horribly insulting to our country Hugh, and
> to us as the people who live here. But I'm sure you already know that.
the header tells you why
A red neck conservative picks on me . .. .
If you writers cannot look at your own country objectively . ..
no hope for USA
Hugh W
gekko
saying:
> "PJ" <p...@pjparks.com> wrote
>
> snip
>
>> The remarks you make are horribly insulting to our country Hugh,
>> and to us as the people who live here. But I'm sure you already
>> know that.
>
>
> the header tells you why
>
> A red neck conservative picks on me . .. .
So pick on the red neck conservative, you bigotted
dog-weenie-sucking lump of rotted banana bread!
But tell the truth ... you make the insulting remarks
about the US *irrespective* of who's "picking" on you.
gah. a liar, a bigot, and a lump of dog-weenie-sucking
rotted banana bread. it's *gotta* suck to be you!
--
gekko
What is wrong with Parker and Hart? Are they trying to corrupt our
children with their loose grammatical morals? -- Jim Dyer, concerning
comic strip "Wizard Of Id" and misuse of apostrophe
Hugh Watkins
"Donna deMedicis" <adl...@mindspring.com> wrote
snip
> All of us? You're making this sweeping statement about an entire country?
No only the sorry specimens who write in this shitty thread
> You been drinking? Are you drunk?
yes and tomorrow I will be sober
but you will still be prejudiced Americans.
<very old joke>
snip
Hugh W
Paul Hartman
Hugh Watkins wrote:
<much snipped>
> And you are ignorant and careless of the truth about USA outside your bourgeois middle class world.
>
Do be so kind as to expand upon my `bourgeois middle class world' .
> bye bye
>
> Hugh W
gekko
Watkins" <hugh_w...@net.dialog.dk> wrote misc.writing saying:
> yes and tomorrow I will be sober
> but you will still be <snip>.
>
> <very old joke>
D'Israeli or Churchill?
--
gekko
I tried to be a tailor, but I just wasn't suited for it, mainly because
it was a so-so job.
Donna deMedicis
I'm gonna keep picking this scab. I just can't help myself.
You know that I'm conservative? How are you figuring that, Hugh? How
did I vote in the last election? What are my views on abortion? On
homosexuality? What do you know about me, this red-neck American?
Tell me, Hugh, you little snot -- How am I prejudiced? Because I don't
like you? I'm not making some sweeping statement about every one who
lives in your country. I'm bright enough to know that they're diverse,
they're different.
So how am I prejudiced, Hugh. I'm very specific, Hugh. I just don't
like you.
Donna
gekko
> Here are some of the interesting bits and selected pieces of what
> "Hugh Watkins" <hugh_w...@net.dialog.dk> wrote misc.writing
> saying:
>
>> yes and tomorrow I will be sober
>> but you will still be <snip>.
>>
>> <very old joke>
>
> D'Israeli or Churchill?
or that old vaudevillian dude? Fields?
Hugh Watkins
"gekko" <ba0go...@sneakemail.com> wrote in message news:Xns9172B0BFB...@24.1.240.74...
Churchill I think to Lady Astor
Hugh W
William Penrose
wrote:
>Ohmigosh! It's wpen...@customsensorsolutions.com (William Penrose)!
>And look! On 09 Dec 2001 s/he wrote something in misc.writing! See?
>
>> He said mainly the southwest, AZ,
>
>i thought amtrak shut down in az?
That's news to me, but then they'll be shutting down everywhere, sad
to say.
This was a few years ago, say, 97 or 98. The bulletproof glass thing
came before that. He didn't say when.
Bill Penrose
Gunslinger
course, my views are as completely unbiased as those of all you fine
people... (*Grin*)
A) GUNS: Not only are there as many laws and policies regarding firearms as
their are countries, but as many opinions about those laws and policies as
their are individuals. (I think we've heard most of them here, too.)
Obviously, we're not all going to agree wholly on any given point,
'propaganda' by our respective governments, pro- and anti-gun lobbies not
withstanding. However, if you're willing to actually entertain some
stripped-down, unvarnished and 'politically neutral' points, I think you'll
find there's more of a general consesus then you'd imagine:
1) Firearms exist. Even the most impoverished countries, lacking what most
of us would consider the 'basic necessities', firearms exist.
2) Firearms are DESIGNED to be dangerous. Only a great fool would consider a
firearm as being inherently benign.
2b) Great Fools Exist.
3) A firearm in the hands of an immoral person is more dangerous then one in
the hands of a moral person.
3b) Even a moral person, through accident or moment of moral incertitude,
may make dangerous use of a firearm.
4) No law, no matter how well intentioned, strictly enforced, or widely
supported, will be followed by all men.
4b) Immoral men or more likely to break said laws - though this is no way
suggests that a moral man will not.
5) Any reasonably intelligent, fairly educated man can easily and
inexpensively produce a firearm, if he so wished.
(Anybody wish to dispute any of the above? If so - and if you are not doing
so simply to be contrary - you might as well not read the next section, as
you won't agree with it, and it'll simply enflame you further...) So, in my
personal opinion, the problem lays in the commercial-industrial aspects of
firearm production. Perhaps it would be better to make the SALE or GIFT of
any firearm illegal, requiring each prospective gun-owner to produce the
firearm by themselves. (No 'kit' work, either.) At the very least, this
would very sharply limit how many firearms there are - and anybody with one
would either have a firearm that they would know inside-and-out, or one
likely to blow their hand off when fired. Callous as this might sound, that
might be the better the the situation that exists today - without actually
infringing on the right of an individual to own a firearm, other then by the
limits of their own stupidity...
B) 'CUSSING': It's quite often more a 'learned speech pattern' then
anything, with little emotion or meaning behind it. those who use it as an
'exclamation point' have a valid reason for using it. People using it as
actual 'communication' (i.e. - 'They wuz fuckin' all night long, and were so
loud the kept me up..) also have a valid reason - even if they're being
vulgar, be it purposefully or not. Anything else... well, why even bother?
It's superfluous. If it IS a habit, maybe all you need to do is learn to
substitute. Personally, I like 'tarnation', 'dag-nabbit' and 'Ye Gods!',
myself...
C) MESSAGE 'TONE': Okay - why are we all getting so personal. Sure, we tend
to rate how intelligent we think other people are by how closely their own
oh-so-unbiased opinions match our own equally-unbiased-opinions, but
really - do we feel so unsure of ourselves that we have to get 'personal'
over it? I don't mean just person-to-person, either, but in references to
our respective 'Beloved Homelands'. No country is perfect. Indeed, the
smallest countries are usually the least 'offensive', since a Great Country
does Great things - both Great Good and Great Evil. Regarding England vs.
America, the balance for each is towards the good - and the intentions, at
least, are honorable. Why not save your aspersions for countries that truly
deserve them... if you can find any. On the other hand, if you want to hand
out Kudos for nations, might I suggest you look into Switzerland? (No, I'm
not Swiss, either...)
As somebody once replied to the question 'What do you think of Western
Civilization' - I think it'd be a good idea....
William Penrose
<sire...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>--Geno<
>...who hates liberalism
Jeez, why didn't you tell us you hated liberalism? I'll be more
sensitive to your feelings after this. Us liberals do that, you know.
Bill Penrose
Paul Hartman
gekko wrote:
> Here are some of the interesting bits and selected pieces of what "Hugh
> Watkins" <hugh_w...@net.dialog.dk> wrote misc.writing saying:
>
> > yes and tomorrow I will be sober
> > but you will still be <snip>.
> >
> > <very old joke>
>
> D'Israeli or Churchill?
>
Churchill, Disraeli was a gentleman.
The Last Real Marlboro Man
news:3C1389AB...@mindspring.com:
> Yeah, well, you can kiss my ass, too.
>
> Once you start, it's hard to stop. Cussing that is, not kissing my
> ass.
Were you ever in a military family? I spent ten years in the Army. It
took me several years, literally, after getting out to break myself of
the habit of using profanities in normal conversation.
"Hey, Cap'n. I'm going the fuck down to the fucking PX to get some
fucking cigarrettes, sir."
"You get your sorry ass right the fuck back to work and don't fucking
bother me again, Lutz."
"Yes, sir! But this sure is fucked up, sir!"
You're right about the use of profanities in writing as a literary tool.
They can be used effectively for effect or abused for brainless shock
value.
A book I would recommend is by Sterling Johnson called "English as a
Second Fucking Language" is based on the premise that swearing is a
necessary tool for effective communication in American English.
The author cites the following example: Imagine someone unfamiliar with
the language attempting to comprehend the following conversation:
John: Mary, would you like to attend the opera this evening?
Mary: Fucking-A. Should I wear my black dress?
John: Why the fuck not?
Mary: Fucked if I know - Oh, fuck! I just remembered. It got fucked up
in the wash.
John: Well, fuck the opera. Let's stay home and fuck.
Mary: Good fucking idea.
--
Wayne
Editor, The Tocquevillian Magazine
http://www.waynelutz.net/conservativevoice
------------------------------------------------------------
"Lex mala, lex nulla." --Thomas Aquinas
------------------------------------------------------------
Donna deMedicis
The Last Real Marlboro Man wrote:
>
> Donna deMedicis <adl...@mindspring.com> wrote in
> news:3C1389AB...@mindspring.com:
>
> > Yeah, well, you can kiss my ass, too.
> >
> > Once you start, it's hard to stop. Cussing that is, not kissing my
> > ass.
>
> Were you ever in a military family? I spent ten years in the Army. It
> took me several years, literally, after getting out to break myself of
> the habit of using profanities in normal conversation.
<snip more fucking>
I worked with a man who was the most effective cusser I've ever known.
Very creative use of cussing. When he cussed you out, you stayed
cussed. He was my supervisor, and everyone who worked for him totally
respected him -- we just realized that we'd be cussed with some
regularity. Everytime he cussed me out, I generally deserved it, so I'd
just take it.
Newer employees would get their feelings hurt.
Times changed and he was told that he couldn't cuss, so he retired.
Damn, I loved that man . . .
Donna
The Last Real Marlboro Man
> You're obsessed with US culture. You're a US Groupie. And you
> really hate what you can't have.
Bingo.
gekko
written the perfect poem, for example, or read the one illuminating
book. Instead, The Last Real Marlboro Man
<uwtiuzp...@sneakemail.com> chose to post to misc.writing:
> Bingo.
on sunday? isn't that on friday nights?
Hugh Watkins
"William Penrose" <wpen...@customsensorsolutions.com> wrote in message news:3c14025c...@news.anet.com...
LOL
why do you think he wears his buttons on his sleeve?
Hugh W
Frank Raymond Michaels
<uwtiuzp...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
><snippu>
>A book I would recommend is by Sterling Johnson called "English as a
>Second Fucking Language" is based on the premise that swearing is a
>necessary tool for effective communication in American English.
>
>The author cites the following example: Imagine someone unfamiliar with
>the language attempting to comprehend the following conversation:
>
>John: Mary, would you like to attend the opera this evening?
>
>Mary: Fucking-A. Should I wear my black dress?
>
>John: Why the fuck not?
>
>Mary: Fucked if I know - Oh, fuck! I just remembered. It got fucked up
>in the wash.
>
>John: Well, fuck the opera. Let's stay home and fuck.
>
>Mary: Good fucking idea.
This also does not easily translate across languages.
In my WIP, I have a 15-year-old Japanese princess who is a real
monkeywrench to all the main characters' plans (protagonist and
antagonists alike), and a charmer to boot. I thought I'd make her
favorite catchphrase the Japanese equivalent of "because I'm the
fucking princess, that's why!"
Except, I find there *is* no Japanese equivalent. The construct simply
does not exist. The ability to use a gerund as a non-specific
intensifier is an under-appreciated literary and rhetorical tool,
available in English, but not in Japanese.
And that's a problem for me.
16th-century Japanese just don't know how to cuss.
After WWII they adopted the word "fakku" ("fuck") to fill in the gap.
-----
FRM
Blanche Nonken
> >
> > "Donna deMedicis" <adl...@mindspring.com> wrote
> >
> > > Hugh, you really hate America, don't you?
> >
> > suburban lot you are
> > you have abandoned your cities to the poor
Hugh, you're such an idiot. Did you have any specific city in mind?
Jayess
[...]
Do shut up, pops, your ignorance of the U. ...
your ignorance is embarrassing. You make
Waynetta sound like Donald Duck. Come to
think of it! He actually looks a bit like him
about twenty years ago ... Did I say DUCK?!
I meant Davidson! How insensitive of me.
He looks nothing like Donald Duck. You on
the other hand bear a marked resemblance
to Mr Pooter.
--
JoeSykes.
Cunto di tutti cunti.
Alan Hope
programme, like this one from Mirror Image, calling from misc.writing:
>A Brit could never call himself The Last Real Marlboro Man without being
>giggled at behind his back.
It doesn't work too well for an American either, trust me.
Some of us are proud to giggle in the big buffoon's face, as a matter
of fact.
--
AH
Alan Hope
misc.writing:
>Ok, Hugh. Not that I have any hope at all that this will penetrate your
>brainwashed head, but here goes anyway.
Groan.
Don't you people ever get tired of trotting out the same old tripe
time after time? You're like a dog on heat waiting for another chance
to drool the same old drivel, when it's been oh weeks since the last
exhaustive trawl through your hair-trigger opinions.
Listen, nobody out here gives a fuck about your stupid guns. I'm now
speaking on behalf of everyone outside the US borders, and those one
or two intransigents who haven't heard the call to order better just
get back into line.
Let every American carry a gun at all times, and let them shoot
whoever they feel like shooting. Make it compulsory, for all we care.
Have a ball. Blow each other away till there's only AD left standing.
It'll do wonders for the readability of MW, that's for sure. In more
ways than one.
--
AH
JanA.
> In news:3c12eb2c...@news.cis.dfn.de, wf...@mindspring.com (Bill
> Funke) cracked knuckles, set fingers to keyboard and thought, "the
> denizens of misc.writing will REALLY be impressed when they read this!"
> > > To save time, perhaps billo and a few others could just post the
> > thousand or so urls they came up with the last time.
> > I warned 'em. I did. Too late though. Thank goodness for
> you that the topic line contains the word "guns" and is
> easily killfiled or ignored, yes?
> > That way those who get active enjoyment from this circular
> and never-ending debate may feel free to enjoy, and those
> who grow weary of it may not be bothered by it.
> > You -do- know what I mean, don't you?
I ordered the misc.writing crispy duck, but I got a large "circular
and never-ending debate."
Having read all 47 some-odd messages in this thread, I think I'm
entitled to onea slightly long reply instead of several slightly
shorter ones.
1. Not all Americans live in "suburbia". You couldn't pay me to live
in such a place. I live in the older downtown section of a smaller
major American city. [i.e. not NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston, Denver, San
Fran, Boston, or Philly]
2. Yes there is a "homeless problem" in America. And it is a problem
who's solutions are complex and not easy. The breakdown in
communities [with the exception of very small towns, <-500 pop> began
a long time ago as our large nation became more mobile. Mind you an
European invented the internal combustion engine automobile.
3. So what if one Brit, doesn't like America.
A. Her Majesty likes us or she wouldn't have ordered the Star
Spangled Banner to be played during the Changing of the Guard @
Buckingham Palace on Thursday, 13 September 2001. A little backstory
for you non-Americans and for those Americans who slept through US
History in high school or college...
The lyrics of The Star Spangled Banner were wrote by an American
Lawyer, Francis Scott Key. [One of his direct decendants was one of my
7th grade teachers.] Mr. Key wrote the lyrics while being held by His
Majesty's Navy aboard a British naval vessal anchored in Chessapeake
Bay during the War of 1812's Battle of Baltimore. [Regardless of the
name of the war, this happened during the Winter of 1815/16 after the
uncivilized Brits burnt Washington. The set fire to the Library of
Congress, whose books had mostly been donated by that man from
Virgina, Thomas Jefferson.] The "rockets red glare" illuminated the
large "Star Spandled Banner" that still waved over the land of the
free and the home of the brave from Fort McHenry, outside of
Baltimore. So a poem that was inspired by a British attack on the
American homeland, was set to music, and less than 200 years managed
to be played in front of "Bucks House" by order of the Queen Herself!
And during the Changing of the Guard. The last time they played a
different tune, Thomas Jefferson had yet to put quill to parchment and
pen, "When in the course of human events...."
B. If it wasn't for American help, both before and after Pearl
Harbor, England wouldn't have a Queen. They would be under the
control of a Nazi German Government and so would most of the countries
in the EU. Thanks to us, or should I say US, England can still look
forward to celebrating a thousand years without foregin conquest in
2066. [King Charles II's invasion doesn't count, he was English and
simply reclaiming what was his by birth, namely the Crown.]
C. If America, is such a bad place, why do so many Brits live
here? I know serveral of Her Majesty's subjects who are either living
here as ex-pats or have forsworn allegience to the Queen and sworn
allegience to the Flag of the United States of America. And I'm in a
part of the US that has rain and fog and all that dreariness
associated with British weather. I understand that there are even
higher concentrations of Brits in California & Florida. Which makes
sense when you look at the weather in Calif & Fla, but in my rainy
corner of the country? Must be the ski resorts on the big mountains
and the proximity to Canada.
D. Some Americans, alas not enough, do try to get news from
something other than CNN. Any weekday @ 3PM local time, I can turn on
my radio and listen to the news, as reported by the British
Broadcasting Corporation. Late every night, National Public Radio
plays segments of English language radio news reports from around the
globe. And the segments are selected by staff of the World Radio
Network, who happen to work in London. Yes, that London. The German
TV Network, DW, happens to have a English language version of their
news program(me) that runs weekly on public television in [at least my
part of] America. Of course, one could go online and read English
language versions of non-American news sources. No only is there the
BBC, there are many others. I subscribe to several that deliver
foregin news to my e-mail inbox. I also correspond with friends
living in a fromer Soviet Rebuplic in Central Asia and Australia. I
actually have had people act surprised that I know ALL the "-stan"s in
Central Asia and that I knew them before 9.11! [At least now I don't
have to explain that Central Asia is not a region somewhere on the
mainland Chinese coast between the Korean Pennisula and Hong Kong.]
Afganistan
Kazakhstan
Krygyzstan
Pakistan
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Uzbekistan
Oh, and did I mention that, unlike Suburbanites, I can take a short
walk in the morning and pick up the Times. London, not NY, though I
can get the same day's NYT. The Times is always a little aged, but
then it is posted the old fashion way. I also, read a locally monthly
produced newspaper aimed at the local pan-Asian-American community,
even though I'm not Asian. Said newspaper always has news of what is
happening over there.
Jan [dwelling in the middle of the city and a block from China Town]
"Sub - prefix meaning below, inferior, example: sub-par.
Urbanite - noun meaning city dweller from the Latin word urban meaning
city.
Suburbanite - noun used to refer to someone who lives in a cookie
cutter house in a planned development full of people of their own
race, culture, religion, class, and other social-economic factors and
who use a gas guzzling SUV the size of an army tank to go the distance
of a few block and who's range of caring reaches only to the enterance
to their own gated 'community'. Not known for being urbane. Also,
too often viewed as 'Mr. & Mrs. Average American' by most of the rest
of the world thanks to the advertizers on Madison Avenue."
Davida Chazan - The Chocolate Lady
00:17:00 GMT in <Xns9172AFD0D...@24.1.240.74> that:
>
>Here are some of the interesting bits and selected pieces of what
>"Hugh Watkins" <hugh_w...@net.dialog.dk> wrote misc.writing
>saying:
>
>> "PJ" <p...@pjparks.com> wrote
>>> and to us as the people who live here. But I'm sure you already
>>> know that.
>>
>> the header tells you why
>> A red neck conservative picks on me . .. .
>
>So pick on the red neck conservative, you bigotted
>dog-weenie-sucking lump of rotted banana bread!
>
>But tell the truth ... you make the insulting remarks
>about the US *irrespective* of who's "picking" on you.
And he has also posted insulting things about Israel and Jews. I never picked
on him. The first time I saw one of those insulting posts, I called him on it
via private email. After some discussion, he semi-apologized to me, but never
put that same appology on the group after I asked him to. Then he went out and
did it at *least* two more times. I've had it with him. He's had his chances.
Three strikes and he's out, as far as I'm concerned.
>gah. a liar, a bigot, and a lump of dog-weenie-sucking
>rotted banana bread. it's *gotta* suck to be you!
You have a truly lovely way with words.
--
Davida Chazan (The Chocolate Lady)
<davida @ jdc . org . il>
Visit "Like Chocolate for Poetry" http://pub58.ezboard.com/bdrchazan
My Homepage - http://davidachazan.homestead.com/
Steve Pritchard
message news:Xns9171CEBBAFE4...@24.12.106.199...
> By contrast, the Draconian regulations on the law-abiding gun owners of
> Great Britain have done nothing to reduce crime. On Jan. 16, 2000, the
> London Times published an article about the increase in gun crimes, and
> bemoaning the fact that there are an estimated three million
> unregistered guns in the nation. Besides confirming the inescapable fact
> that criminals don't bother to license their guns, the article stated
> that fatal shootings in London more than doubled between 1998 and 1999,
> and overall armed crime rose 10%.
>
> Sounds to me like you Brits is nothing but a bunch of Wild-West yahoos.
I recall you posting this before, along with the post about the number of
children with access to guns in the UK being about 1 in 4. I got hold of the
report that was the source you quoted too. I still have it on my desk here.
The figures within that report bear absolutely no relation to everyday life
in the UK, no matter where they have come from. If the subjects in the
survey are from, say Moss Side or some other drug-riddled area of the UK,
then the results make sense. The fact that the location of the people
surveyed isn't revealed, and certainly doesn't appear to be done on a
nationwide basis, throws a great deal of light on their reliability or
validity.
Only last week there were figure posted up from a similarly "official"
report that stated there are only 535 people living rough on the streets of
the UK. This was broken down into the number of homeless people in each
major city in the UK too. Apparently there are 45 homeless people in
Sheffield. Just 45. It seems odd that I pass most of them on my way to the
train each night, on a route that takes me about eight minutes to walk,
doesn't it?
The article you mention had some rather dubious sources for its "estimates",
in precisely the same way as other articles wanting to make a startling
point do.
Newspapers need readers to stay afloat. Reports like the one above provide
them with their readership.
Steve Pritchard
> Le sot est comme le peuple, qui se croit riche de peu. so that's why
> i read misc.writing, where i found "Hugh Watkins"
> <hugh_w...@net.dialog.dk> saying:
> > you guys filmed it and did it and sold it to the rest of the
> > world.
>
> Yes, and all USans are exactly alike, think alike, look
> alike, etc. Right?
Stan just characterised every Brit as a "wanker" in an earlier thread.
That's okay then?
Steve Pritchard
news:9uuhoj$5e5$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
> Why do British people worry so much about how the rest of the world views
> the U.S?
They don't. This poster here may, others don't.
If you are trying to ridicule someone for painting with a broad brush,
please refrain from doing so yourself.
> I've been an American about as long as Hugh has been a Brit. I don't give
a
> shit how the rest of the world views England. If England gets a bad
report
> card from the World Court in den Hague or wherever the hell it is, I could
> not care less. I don't even care if they drive on the wrong side of the
> street or that their cuisine or wotever is tasteless.
Geno, the inverse also applies. I cannot imagine why you would think
otherwise.
> Brits, give it up. You will never be Americans. You will always be
> Englishmen.
If I believed in a God, I'd thank him for that.
Steve Pritchard
news:WwHQ7.54919$xS6....@www.newsranger.com...
> My experience - limited as it may be - has shown me that if you are
prejudiced
> to want something to appear in a certain way, you can and will find the
sources
> to back up your own opinion, and avoid those that contridict you. In this
> instance, it appears that Hugh has decided that the USA has a bad image.
Hugh
> will find every opportunity to prove himself right, and not bother to look
for
> contrary sources. In my book, when someone does this, I usually write
them off
> as being trolls.
No more so than those who oppose one man's views with an argument that he
and his entire nation must therefore all think the same way.
Steve Pritchard
> So pick on the red neck conservative, you bigotted
> dog-weenie-sucking lump of rotted banana bread!
That would work better for all if both sides did the same thing.
Truly it would.
Hugh Watkins
"Frank Raymond Michaels" <fra...@i-2000.com> wrote in message news:3c141bc1...@groups.i-2000.com...
the writer's dilemma in writing a historical novel, safer to make it a fantasy.
In my viking project I considered dropping latin words but on reflection I would end up writing in Icelandic and that is a small
market.
I very much doubt if there are vernacular sources in any language going back more than two or three hundred years and these are
heavily filtered through middle class sensibilities, as in for exmple the brothers Grimm.
Literary language is essential formal and disgards many colloquialisms.
Even TV still beeps out words any school kid knows.
For me fucking princess is fishwife language. Fakku is just a fashion, the same goes on in modern danish influenced by ghetto
language on US records.
see http://www.santesson.com/curshome.htm
You need to be more inventive, your princess would get the same effect by tone of voice in RL. Rather like the royal we in UK
english.
What was holy to your characters?
That is what they would profain if they swore. Or maybe kick a hole in a paper screen.
Hugh W
I am a bleeding princess
or blooded priness ?
might be extremely shocking to Shinto japanese ?!?!?!
http://www.notam02.no/~hcholm/altlang/stat.html
http://www.notam02.no/~hcholm/altlang/ht/Japanese.html
http://www.insults.net/html/swear/
http://www.insults.net/html/swear/japanese.html
oh Baka Geno
onani - masterbate
loan word from Christian swearing
by the Emperors golden balls ???
kin tama - golden balls
I am the oni princess
******************************************************'''
http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&q=japanese+swear+words
Japanese people are
reticent to tell you their swear words, at least in the company that I keep ...
People say that there aren't any swear words in Japanese, but
there area, but they are conveyed in whole sentences instead
Japanese Language Pages Glossary of Terms
... San/sama - See Honorific titles. Swear words - Strictly speaking, Japanese doesn't
have any. But, due to the importance placed on politeness of speech, some ...
www.geocities.com/tokyo/towers/9151/glossary.htm
http://www2.gol.com/users/rick/ac3.html
>>
The primitive universe was not the placid Eden of Christian eschatology but a world of terrors, powers, and dangers, real or
imagined. Here is where ritual, magic, and taboo operate. Indeed, taboo words have often been called magical words and it is said
that linguistic symbols are central to magic (O'Keefe, 1983: 39-62). If society is viewed as an as an organism then we can follow
the theme of its being most vulnerable at its margins (Douglas, 1966: 145) or boundaries (Leach, 1976: 61). Douglas (1966: 145) saw
primitive society as having four areas of danger: (a) that from outside attacking the margins (b) that within the margins itself;
(c) that crossing lines within the structure of society; and (d) that causing internal contradictions. <<<
>>> Although it has often been said that Japanese has limited facility for swearing (And it must be stated here that taboo words
and swear words are not necessarily one and the same. There is an overlap, as, at least in English, taboo words are often used in a
swearing context), the language does possess taboo words, or imikotoba. According to the Kodansha Encyclopedia:
For example, in Shinto ceremonies Buddhist terms such as hotoke (Buddha) and so (Buddhist monk) are generally avoided (Buddhism
being associated with funerals), as are words like shi (death) and chi (blood).There are expressions to be avoided after nightfall;
instead of saying shio for salt (near homophone of shi, (death) one says nami no hana. In speeches at wedding parties, words like
kaeru and modoru (to go back home) are carefully avoided (1983: 291).
Taboo words have changed over the centuries for a variety of obvious reasons. Old societies have withered and died; new ones have
taken their places. Social attitudes within societies have altered radically. Many today are in a state of flux. Religions have come
and gone or otherwise undergone significant modification. Languages as well have undergone immense change. One can see this with
just a cursory comparison of modern English with its Middle English and Old English, for example.
<<<
http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&q=imikotoba
Untitled
... be a secret language known only to matagi. The 'yamakotoba' is a variety of imikotoba,
or words which you must avoid using in a sacred place because they will ...
nyerk.pitas.com/october.html
http://www.google.co.uk/search?num=100&hl=en&q=shinto+tabu&meta=
http://www.google.co.uk/search?num=100&hl=en&q=shinto+%22tabu+tree%22&meta=
http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&q=%22tabu+tree%22
http://www.infoaomori.ne.jp/fukaura/c.rekisi/c-2b.e.html
holy tree tradition ???
dryads ??? animism ???
http://www.pref.ishikawa.jp/bunkazai/e-siseki/e-3-5.htm
http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~readj2/xculture.html
For example, in Shinto ceremonies the terms hotoke (Buddha) and so (Buddhist monk) are avoided because of Buddhism's association
with death. Terms such as shi (death) and chi (blood) are also avoided. The linguistic variances caused by this taboo in Japanese
are quite interesting. After nightfall, instead of saying shio for salt, speakers say nami no hana. This is because shio and shi
sound so similar and it isn't considered good to be mentioning death while it is dark.
Steve Pritchard
news:63c646f0.01121...@posting.google.com...
> 3. So what if one Brit, doesn't like America.
Precisely. One Brit. Not all Brits.
> A. Her Majesty likes us or she wouldn't have ordered the Star
> Spangled Banner to be played during the Changing of the Guard @
> Buckingham Palace on Thursday, 13 September 2001.
A gracious and excellent gesture. I was proud of her, and I can't recall
ever saying that before.
> B. If it wasn't for American help, both before and after Pearl
> Harbor, England wouldn't have a Queen.
See, this is "America saves the word" again.
If such chestbeating is meant to endear you to others, I'll just point out
that it doesn't work.
> C. If America, is such a bad place, why do so many Brits live
> here?
People migrate to and from places they like. It's a worldwide thing. America
is not the only destination.
> D. Some Americans, alas not enough, do try to get news from
> something other than CNN.
And a lot of Brits only ger their "news" from tabloids. Every country
suffers the same thing.
Davida Chazan - The Chocolate Lady
Dec 2001 18:43:13 -0500 in <3C13F713...@mindspring.com> that:
>
>Hugh Watkins wrote:
>>
>> bye bye
>
>Eat dirt and die, you little cretin.
My dearest Donna. I have met Hugh. He isn't little. Other than this, I have
no corrections or comments regarding the rest of your post, as I agree with you
entirely.
Bill Funke
interrupted by a cloud of electrons spinning about my head, and the
Voices saying: "Steve Pritchard" <S_Pri...@shef.rage.co.uk> has
left this deathless prose in misc.writing"
Of course it is.
I mean, it's common knowledge that the US has absolutely no problems
and the rest of the world is a cesspool of misery and corruption.
Even our rather high murder rate is but one example of Yankee
ingenuity in the reduction of the surplus population.
Everything of value was invented here, and if there is anything we
don't do or have, it is not worth doing or having.
Lest someone should point out our insistance on buying Japanese and
German cars and cheap clothes in Kmart made by Chinese slave labor,
even this shows our excellent good sense and our wise use of the
American invention of comparative advantage.
Davida Chazan - The Chocolate Lady
Dec 2001 10:27:30 -0000 in <9v22k6$cikpt$1...@ID-56527.news.dfncis.de> that:
>
>No more so than those who oppose one man's views with an argument that he
>and his entire nation must therefore all think the same way.
That is the nature of prejudice in general.
(But two wrongs and all that... )
Hugh Watkins
"Hugh Watkins" <hugh_w...@net.dialog.dk> wrote
> sound so similar and it isn't considered good to be mentioning death while it is dark.
http://www.ndk.cc/faq/ac01trans.html
good discussion of translation problems
swear words making gangster talk
amd loan words like arbite meanung a part time job (German arbeid)
When Danes meet Japanese they teach each other swear words http://home19.inet.tele.dk/tsouth/Descriptions.htm
kjempe stivert
header in Danish ( giant stiffy)
<g>
Hugh W
Hugh Watkins
"Bill Funke" <wf...@mindspring.com> wrote
snip
>
> I mean, it's common knowledge that the US has absolutely no problems
> and the rest of the world is a cesspool of misery and corruption.
> Even our rather high murder rate is but one example of Yankee
> ingenuity in the reduction of the surplus population.
>
> Everything of value was invented here, and if there is anything we
> don't do or have, it is not worth doing or having.
>
> Lest someone should point out our insistance on buying Japanese and
> German cars and cheap clothes in Kmart made by Chinese slave labor,
> even this shows our excellent good sense and our wise use of the
> American invention of comparative advantage.
LOL
I give you one thing when the USAians play catch up with the Brits they do alright
Steam locomotives had a bigger loading gauge
handbuilt cars got mass produced
Compact cars got Bigger and better
Jet airliners
the elegant Comet
became the wide bodied Boeing 7xx
In the wings engines
beacame drop off the wings jet motors
- but had a very good glide angle when all 4 motors stopped
atomic physics beacame atom bombs
more anybody ?
Hugh W
Hugh Watkins
"Alan Hope" <ah...@skynet.be> wrote
snip
>
> It'll do wonders for the readability of MW, that's for sure. In more
> ways than one.
Geno does not realise how much I laugh at him - and take no notice.
I was brought up to be "samfundskritiker" a critic of society, and english upper middle class education with a socialist mother and
a dead father.
From a comfortable capitalist background they became socialists when they saw at first hand how the poor people lived and were
exploited in the 1920ies, my father's first job was as a bank trainee in Blenaevon, a Welsh mining town of the type in "How Green
was my Valley". The mine owners were ruthless.
My mother taught all her working life in the inner city of Brimingham. I was taken in to her school and saw the Victorian back to
back housing from the industrial revolution times, with one outside toilet to 24 families, these houses have long gone except one
overlooked row converted into shops are this year being made into a museum of the working class.
As a system critic I would have been imprisoned in a communist land, and I am used to seeing the compacent well-off ignoring the
plight of the people less fortunate than themselves.
But USAian democracy is slowly improving and theoretically the blacks have equal rights, but illegal labour is still being exploited
by the rich almost as grieviously as in slave times. The spread between rich and poor is still too wide, obscenely wide.
Too many people in prison in Britain and USA compared with other "civilised" lands of the first world.
If you make a personal attack on me like any school playground bullies, you can expect me to hit back and the home truths about your
country from official USA web pages seems to hurt you more than anything else. I do not need to invent.
The Chocolate lady is living in a war zone about two villages away from where the bullets fly and her son escaped grievious hurt by
luck. That does not make her a bad mother but another Jewish victim of circumstances.
I used to live in Northern Ireland by luck I got out, I am too frightened to go and visit.
That colony plantation of Ulster had occured 1556 to 1607 and the first insurrction by the Irish was in 1641 and is still going on
350 years later. Demonstrations and stone throwing at British army frontier posts yesterday.
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/12/10/nuls10.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/12/10/ixhome.html
The plantation of Palestine by the Zionists has filled up such a reservoir of hate that the present fight is going to last for
generations. Last man standing. Dumb place to visit or live.
114 lands recently condemned Israel for her present actions, I do not judge individuals but worry about their safety - especially if
I have met them.
take care
Hugh W
http://www.nuzhound.com/articles/Irelandclick/derv12-7-01.htm
It's time to stop creating victims
***************************************************'
http://www.ireland.org/irl_hist/hist29.htm
http://www.ireland.org/irl_hist/hist28.htm
map
http://www.fortunecity.com/bally/kilkenny/2/ire1600.htm
new hate for USA
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia_china/story.jsp?story=109257
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/northern_ireland/understanding/default.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/northern_ireland/understanding/parties_paramilitaries/ulster_unionist.stm
http://www.cbsnews.com/now/story/0,1597,315123-412,00.shtml
http://www.nuzhound.com/archive/nifeb98.htm
http://www.nuzhound.com/index.html
Hugh Watkins
"Hugh Watkins" <hugh_w...@net.dialog.dk> wrote
snip
>
> I very much doubt if there are vernacular sources in any language going back more than two or three hundred years
I was wrong about taboo words
http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&q=Engishiki
>>kodama (tree spirit),
I am trying to find the botanical name for a "tabu tree"
You are lucky to have these sources -- in Scandinavia of the same period the tradition was oral.
The Norwegian tradition of trolls - spirits living within trees mountains is very similar to the Japanese Kami
Christians dubbed them as bad of course
Hugh W
********************************************************************
http://www.kokugakuin.ac.jp/ijcc/wp/cpjr/kami/ito.html
>> And the fact that the so-called "tree spirit" Kukunochi likewise is described both as a "tree kami" and as a "tree ancestor" is
likely a result of the fact that the distinction between tama and kami had already become obscured by that date.
In the period prior to compilation of the Kojiki and Nihon shoki, the various minor deities known as tama and kami must have been
broadly worshiped as central figures within the spiritual world of that time. The various nature deities represented by kami of
mountain, sea, wind and field were also minor divinities of this kind.
In the Kojiki, the kami of the sea is called Ôwatatsumi no kami, the kami of the mountain is Ôyamatsumi no kami, the kami of wind as
Shinatsuhiko no kami, and the kami of field as Kayanuhime no kami or Nozuchi no kami. Further, the kami of wind is said to be male
while the kami of field is female. No doubt, such nature deities were --- in the same way as the "rice spirit" and "tree spirit"
seen earlier --- formerly worshiped as minor deities.
The Yato no kami seen in the Namegata-gun section of the Hitachi no kuni fudoki can likewise be considered within the category of
such minor deities. The Yato no kami were described as snakes, many of whom were said to live in fields near the government office
for the county (gun). These snake-kami were the object of great fear, since it was said that if one laid eyes on such a kami, his
family line would be exterminated.
>>> http://nyerk.pitas.com/october.html
4. Also, while on holy ground, the hunters must use a special vocabulary of words, the yamakotoba (mountain words), which used to be
a secret language known only to matagi. The 'yamakotoba' is a variety of imikotoba, or words which you must avoid using in a sacred
place because they will pollute and weaken, or result in a supernatural curse. As early as the ninth century, the Engishiki records
fourteen words which must not be used in the Grand Shrine of Ise.
Most of the special 'mountain words' refer to animals; they vary according to district but some are common to all parts of Japan.
Examples include seta for dog, wakka for water, hedari for blood. Such words have been recognized as derivative from the Ainu
language, so there may be a connection between the cult of Yamanokami and the aboriginal Ainu people.
In other cases, using 'foreign' or 'substitute' words is not done. Instead, people simply use the name of another animal for the one
which is to be avoided. In Akita prefecture, for example, a bear is not called a bear (kuma), but a weasel (itachi). In Echigo
prefecture, a bear is called a shishi (four-legged animal) and kuma is used to refer to a saucepan o_O.
The hunt itself is governed by strict rules. The season for hunting is specified, as is the process of killing and dismembering an
animal. The chief quarry of the matagi is the bear, mostly because kumanoi, a medicine usually used to treat stomach disorders, is
concocted from its gall bladder or liver. However, no parts of the bear's body must be wasted, lest Yamanokami's wrath be aroused.
Any body part which could not be used as medicine are eaten by the matagi. These include bear's entrails, genitals, brains (raw -_-)
and blood. Heck, if I read Blacker's account right, they even eat excrement, particularly that of herbivorous animals, which they
call fun >.><<<
Stan (the Man)
Of course it's ok, you wanker. I'm blue-chip stock.
Stan
PJ
Steve Pritchard wrote:
: > Stan just characterised every Brit as a "wanker" in an earlier
: > thread.
: >
: > That's okay then?
:
: Of course it's ok, you wanker. I'm blue-chip stock.
:
: Stan
I swear to God, if I ever find the person or persons who gave Stan
that "blue chip stock" moniker I'm going to bitch-slam them.
Ciao,
PJ
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Peggy J. Parks
www.pjparks.com
Steve Pritchard
news:W73R7.29991$Yy.335737@rwcrnsc53...
> "Stan (the Man)" <sk...@optonline.net> wrote
> Steve Pritchard wrote:
>
> : > Stan just characterised every Brit as a "wanker" in an earlier
> : > thread.
> : >
> : > That's okay then?
> :
> : Of course it's ok, you wanker. I'm blue-chip stock.
> :
> : Stan
>
> I swear to God, if I ever find the person or persons who gave Stan
> that "blue chip stock" moniker I'm going to bitch-slam them.
Might have been Zen?