What, We Ain't Artists?
Jack411411
you can say, That's all me. That's the best I can do. Then you take that piece
of art--it might be bad art, but art, nonetheless--and you send it to someone,
with the hope that that person will buy it and enable others to see it. Then,
an editor says, "You might want to rewrite this" or "You might try that."
Do visual artists get that? When a guy walks into a gallery with his seascape
in oil, would the gallery owner say something like, "Put a couple more sea
gulls up the left corner, and make that cloud on the right a little puffier.
Then bring it back to me, and I'll see what I can do"?
I'm asking honestly. Is this done?
Jack Moore
Blanche Nonken
> I'm asking honestly. Is this done?
Yup, in college. The classroom critique in any art major's class can be
just as bitter and brutal to the ego as that of a writing class. And as
far as "editing" you learn as you go. If nobody buys it, that's your
review.
Doug Wyman
>...Then,an editor says, "You might want to rewrite this"
>or "You might try that."
>
>Do visual artists get that?
>When a guy walks into a gallery with his seascape
>in oil, would the gallery owner say something like...
Usually it is more like, "The next time you might want to..."
An all too common remark is, "It might have been more
effective if you had..."
"It seems terribly dark don't you think."
"The colors seem so harsh."
"What WAS he trying to DO?"
"Oh, this is disgusting..."
People also "read" a lot into visual art that was never
intended. I have a drawing that evokes powerful emotion
in the viewer even though it was/is a simple exercise in
transparency/reflection. The majority of it is drawn out
of focus with only a tensed hand in focus. The out of focus
part is the reflection of a tree and shrubs. When it was
first displayed in exhibition, one woman demanded it be
removed because it was so obscene. For some reason many see
the hand as reaching for or fondling the privates of a woman.
Since I have little experience looking at and none fondling,
I can't imagine how people see this. All I see is the tree.
How about passages in writing? Do people do the same, read into
the passage some completely unintended meaning?
Daddy Doug
================================================
http://members.home.net/dwyman
patricia
>Do visual artists get that? When a guy
>walks into a gallery with his seascape
>in oil, would the gallery owner say
>something like, "Put a couple more sea
>gulls up the left corner, and make that
>cloud on the right a little puffier.
>Then bring it back to me, and I'll see what
>I can do"?
>
>I'm asking honestly. Is this done?
Yes. My daughter has done a couple of paintings on commission. In each case
the buyer told her what he wanted (a landscape, for example, or a Native
American scene) and had her do a rough sketch before beginning the work. The
buyer then made requests like "I'd really like some more horses on that
prairie" or "When you start painting, could you incorporate the same shade of
blue as my living-room furniture?" Only when my daughter was sure she knew
exactly what the person wanted did she begin the painting itself.
In some cases, however, she does a painting without consulting anyone and then
tries to sell it. This is more emotionally satisfying for her but it is also
more risky financially, because she has invested resources -- canvas, paint,
time -- in the work without knowing whether it will ever sell. However, she
increases her odds of making a sale by talking to other artists to find out
what type of works (watercolors versus oils, for example, or seascapes versus
still lifes) are selling best. In other words, she studies the market just
like any writer would prior to submitting a manuscript.
-- patricia
Scott Elyard
jack4...@aol.com (Jack411411) wrote:
> I'm asking honestly. Is this done?
>
> Jack Moore
Yes. Though (since I don't pain seascapes), it sounds more like:
Missing the antorbital fenestra. Digit I (hallux) is missing. They
weren't sprinters, so the ankle is too long. If that's a T. rex, you're
my gramma.
And so on.
--
.oO=-"The picture of a faithful alligator boundin' into-=Oo.
| daddy's lap ain't one the public is ready for." |
| --Walt Kelly (Beauregard) |
| Comic: www.oscarquillandcoyle.org |
`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~'
Eliska
>You bang out a few thousands words, rework it, refine it, and polish it until
>you can say, That's all me. That's the best I can do. Then you take that piece
>of art--it might be bad art, but art, nonetheless--and you send it to someone,
>with the hope that that person will buy it and enable others to see it. Then,
>an editor says, "You might want to rewrite this" or "You might try that."
>
>Do visual artists get that? When a guy walks into a gallery with his seascape
>in oil, would the gallery owner say something like, "Put a couple more sea
>gulls up the left corner, and make that cloud on the right a little puffier.
>Then bring it back to me, and I'll see what I can do"?
>
>I'm asking honestly. Is this done?
>
>Jack Moore
Yep! If the gallery doesn't feel that your work will market to their
clientele, they flat out don't accept it.
If you are a commercial artist, your job is to satisfy the client, not
yourself, Fortunately, I find that satisfying the client *is* very
challenging to me. I can work well within a set of guidelines.
I also do portraits - which is the ultimate in putting yourself on the
line for criticism.
We are no different than anyone else that works for a living. There is
a job description and we need to follow it. Some of us (writers and
visual artists) get lucky enough to reach the point where we can
produce what we please.
I'm glad to see this topic here, because I am doing a lot more
painting lately and would love to communicate (OT, by email) with
other visual artists in the ng. I can't find a wonderful artists
newsgroup like this one. Actually I can't find *any* newsgroup that
discusses the many aspects of art the way we discuss writing.
Liska (back to the drawing board to finish a portrait)
Faith L. McCammon
"Jack411411" <jack4...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001204165021...@ng-df1.aol.com...
> You bang out a few thousands words, rework it, refine it, and polish it
until
> you can say, That's all me. That's the best I can do. Then you take that
piece
> of art--it might be bad art, but art, nonetheless--and you send it to
someone,
> with the hope that that person will buy it and enable others to see it.
Then,
> an editor says, "You might want to rewrite this" or "You might try that."
>
> Do visual artists get that? When a guy walks into a gallery with his
seascape
> in oil, would the gallery owner say something like, "Put a couple more sea
> gulls up the left corner, and make that cloud on the right a little
puffier.
> Then bring it back to me, and I'll see what I can do"?
>
> I'm asking honestly. Is this done?
>
> Jack Moore
Yes, it does! I've been selling & displaying my artwork for 14 years & I
still get "you have an interesting style, but don't you think you should try
adding more muscle tone to that person's physique?" or "why do you do
fantasy artwork when you can do regular nature themes?" or "don't you think
you should add more shading to this piece?".
If I see some merit in their criticism I learn from it, but for the most
part we all have our own style.
I think musicians probably go through the same thing, too.
Faith
Scott Elyard
stonebu...@yahoo.com (Scott Elyard) wrote:
> Missing the antorbital fenestra. Digit I (hallux) is missing. They
> weren't sprinters, so the ankle is too long. If that's a T. rex, you're
> my gramma.
>
> And so on.
I also went to Chicago to view a real T. rex in the round (as it were).
And it really does help:
http://www.oscarquillandcoyle.org/lord_moon/lord_moon.jpg
Davida Chazan - The Chocolate Lady
-0500 during the misc.writing Community News Flash, "Faith L.
McCammon" <mc...@belmontcty.net> reported:
>
>"Jack411411" <jack4...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20001204165021...@ng-df1.aol.com...
>> You bang out a few thousands words, rework it, refine it, and polish it
>until
>> you can say, That's all me. That's the best I can do. Then you take that
>piece
>> of art--it might be bad art, but art, nonetheless--and you send it to
>someone,
>> with the hope that that person will buy it and enable others to see it.
>Then,
>> an editor says, "You might want to rewrite this" or "You might try that."
>>
>> Do visual artists get that? When a guy walks into a gallery with his
>seascape
>> in oil, would the gallery owner say something like, "Put a couple more sea
>> gulls up the left corner, and make that cloud on the right a little
>puffier.
>> Then bring it back to me, and I'll see what I can do"?
>>
>> I'm asking honestly. Is this done?
>>
>> Jack Moore
>
>Yes, it does! I've been selling & displaying my artwork for 14 years >
>If I see some merit in their criticism I learn from it, but for the most
>part we all have our own style.
Ah, but the difference is, you're not going to re-paint the picture
because of the critique, are you? You have a finished work and that's
that.
>I think musicians probably go through the same thing, too.
Depends. Composers certainly do - and they certainly change or revise
just like writers. Performers can revise their technique or phrasing
to get a better reaction or mood. Film makers will re-edit a film if
the first showing doesn't work the way they thought it would. Even
actors will change the way they move or say a line in order to make
their performance better. These types of art are not static.
This thread reminds me of what Joni Mitchell said on one of her live
albums. In a small break some of the audience started shouting out
requests. She too pondered on this and thought out loud <paraphrased>
"no one ever said to Van Gogh 'Paint another Starry Night, man!', did
they?". So, as far as painting and sculpture are concerned, although
critiques give them input for improvement for future work, they do not
make an impact on the piece being critiqued.
--
Davida Chazan
<davida @ jdc . org . il>
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Wolf Lahti
>
>You bang out a few thousands words, rework it, refine it, and polish it until
>you can say, That's all me. That's the best I can do. Then you take that piece
>of art--it might be bad art, but art, nonetheless--and you send it to someone,
>with the hope that that person will buy it and enable others to see it. Then,
>an editor says, "You might want to rewrite this" or "You might try that."
>
>Do visual artists get that? When a guy walks into a gallery with his seascape
>in oil, would the gallery owner say something like, "Put a couple more sea
>gulls up the left corner, and make that cloud on the right a little puffier.
>Then bring it back to me, and I'll see what I can do"?
>
>I'm asking honestly. Is this done?
>
Not in the fine arts field so much (unless you're in a class,
then all bets are off), but in illustration work you can count
on having to completely redo a job at least four times before
a glimmer of acceptance is even hinted at.
=======================================================
"I hate quotations!" Wolf Lahti
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson Allen, Washington
-------------------------------------------------------
wd...@paccar.com
=======================================================
Gary Allen
wolf...@paccar.com wrote:
> in illustration work you can count
> on having to completely redo a job at least four times before
> a glimmer of acceptance is even hinted at.
As usual, "it depends on the job." In 15 years as an illustrator,
advertising clients ALWAYS wanted corrections done, while editorial
illustrations rarely did (except for _The NY Times_, who were almost
always sticklers).
One time I did some work for a Woody Allen film, and the art director
told me to double my asking price because "Woody changes his mind a
lot." He was right. I did the piece four times--but it does show up in
the movie, for about a second.
Gary (and no, I'm not related to Woody)
--
To reply via e-mail, just take out the garbage.
------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Allen, The Culinary Institute of America
gal...@garbagehvi.net
http://www.foodbooks.com/
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Carol Schmidt
you're in a class,
> then all bets are off)>
I'm in beginning painting and drawing classes right now, trying to unlearn
all my bad habits of 40 years of self-taught hobby art, and art teachers are
even harder than writing teachers! (Or possibly my art is worse than my
writing.)
I did manage to get back at my painting teacher last week, who said that we
had to bring back all the paintings we had already done this semester so she
can take them into account for our final grade. She noticed I looked
stricken and asked what I had done with my paintings, which she had torn
apart in her critiques.
"Just one I can't get back," I said quietly. "I sold it."
Not for much, the frame cost more than the painting, it was just a class
assignment piece, no meaning to me, but the class gasped in sudden respect,
and I think the teacher was irritated.
Of course she puts $1,000 price tags on her works, worth every cent. But
she sure didn't think much of my last still life, and somebody else did! I
cling to such moments.
Carol Schmidt
Polly Tetlow
until
> you can say, That's all me. That's the best I can do. Then you take that
piece
> of art--it might be bad art, but art, nonetheless--and you send it to
someone,
> with the hope that that person will buy it and enable others to see it.
Then,
> an editor says, "You might want to rewrite this" or "You might try that."
>
> Do visual artists get that? When a guy walks into a gallery with his
seascape
> in oil, would the gallery owner say something like, "Put a couple more sea
> gulls up the left corner, and make that cloud on the right a little
puffier.
> Then bring it back to me, and I'll see what I can do"?
>
> I'm asking honestly. Is this done?
>
Oh yes, it happens. I spent an entire project trying to distil a portrait
down to its most basic elements, while still rendering the face
recognisable. I ended up with a very sixties looking, stark, digitised
image, and was very chuffed with the result.
On presenting it to my tutor, she told my it would be a nice idea to have
calligraphy 'thoughts' coming out of its head. Grrrr.
By the way, hope you lot don't mind me posting occassionally here. I'm a
newby skulking round in the corners and watching coversations, and life, go
by. If anyones got advice for an unpublished poet/essayist/copywriter (not
even decided what I'm best at yet) then chuck it my way and I shall
digest...
Polly
Carol Schmidt
sometimes.
I remember when he went up to a guy who was painting a landscape at the
craft show to draw attention to his booth. It was the typical craft show
landscape, Bob Ross could have painted it in his half hour PBS painting
show, lots of trees and mountains and a lake, totally ordinary.
Dad looked at it for awhile and told the painter, "You know what you need to
add? About a hundred elk, right in that open spot."
The painter kept his temper. In his position I would have told Dad what Dad
needed. Yes, artists get "suggestions," too.
Carol Schmidt