play about D-Day -- reply to punktulip's post
Shlockhack
man who wrote a crossword puzzle before D-Day, using code words involving the
invasion. here's my reply:
um, i don't know. i know there was a play about alan turing, who cracked the
german "enigma" code during WWII but was hounded to death for being gay. what
i was talking about was, some fellow who made crossword puzzles included some
words relating to D-Day in a crossword puzzle, before D-Day happened. it's
been years since i've thought about this, but i think the words were juno,
sword, and omaha, which were 3 of the landing sites in normandy. was there a
play about this crossword puzzle guy? i'd be very interested in reading it!
this sunject came up when people were talking about ideas for scripts being "in
the air" -- perhaps the men planning the invasion had such intense stress, not
only planning it but having to keep the secret to themselves, that they
released a lot of mental energy. And perhaps the crosswords author plucked
these words "out of the air".
----------------------------------------
Fennyman: Who is that? [Shakespeare]
Owner of the Rose Theater: Nobody. The Writer.
Joe Becker
puzzles in the London Times (?) during World War II. He also used Overlord
(as in Operation Overlord) as one of the solutions. It's been quite a while
since I read about this. It might have been in one of historian Stephen
Ambrose's books.
Allied security services members paid the columnist a visit and concluded
the use of the code words was just a concidence. Unfortunately, I do not
know of any play about him, but it sure would be interesting to see.
Joe
*****
Shlockhack <shloc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991020185520...@ng-cd1.aol.com...
JoannKB
>the use of the code words was just a concidence. Unfortunately, I do not
>know of any play about him, but it sure would be interesting to see.
"Breaking the Code"
Megan Riley
>german "enigma" code during WWII but was hounded to death for being gay.
Yes, I know about that one too. That's not the one I meant. That was also made
into a Masterpiece Theatre production on PBS. I've also heard it in a radio
play version.
Brick Rage
Dramatica. It's everywhere you want to be.
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Brick Rage wrote in message <000b8d9b...@usw-ex0106-041.remarq.com>...
Richard Milton
Megan Riley wrote:
Megan, I know the incident you mean (as a previous poster mentioned
it was a crossword compiler of "The Times" who inadvertently used
the words "Overlord" and "Sword" as answers to clues, but he was
dismissed after being interviewed by MI5). I'm pretty sure no play
has been written about this incident (it would be far too slight to
support a play anyway).
However, there was a UK TV play which has slight echoes of this.
It was about a woman who joins the services in WWII to do her bit
and is posted to Bletchley Park. She is treated as a very
inferior form of life as a mere secretary and prevented from seeing
any of the really important stuff (there was a heavy feminist bias
to the script which was actually quite misplaced because women
at BP were given access to and worked on the most secret material).
In the end her curiosity and determination to be taken seriously
lead her to wander into classified areas where she has no authority
to be and she wanders into a room in which some of Turing's
prototype computers ae being operated.
Since she has seen the great secret, and is only a secretary, she is
locked away without trial for the duration of the war in case she
spills the beans. (Again this is rubbish since in real life
Turing's machines were operated almost exclusively by female
servicepeople.)
Richard
--
Alternative Science Website
http://www.alternativescience.com/
Janek Czekaj
My tuppence worth. Actually, I think it is ten bob! Just to follow on from
what Richard has said...
(Okay, I go off on a rant but, hopefully, some will find it of interest.
:-))
The BBC made an excellent drama-documentary series earlier this year on
Bletchley Park and on Alan Turing. In great detail it showed the history of
Bletchley Park from it's humble beginnings through to it's importance in
many of the major events of World War Two. (I think it was a co-production
with one of the American channels.). I think it was a series of 4 - 5 50
minute programmes.
It concentrated on the Enigma Machine, smuggled out of Nazi Germany by the
Polish and the mad dash to bring it to Britain as Poland fell in 1939; the
incredible skills of men and women alike in cracking one German code after
another and the many subsequent 'moments in history', that turned on the
codes broken by the people at Bletchey Park, that brought about the defeat
of both Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.
German plans to move their attack during the Battle Of Britain from RAF
Fighter Command Airfields to London, El Alamein, the destruction of the
Italian fleet in the Mediterranean, the German attack on Russia, Stalingard,
Kursk and even Pearl Harbour were among the Axis secrets 'uncovered' by the
people at Bletchley.
To this day it is still classified whether the British knew in advance of
the attack on Pearl Harbour and, just as importantly, what was done with
that information? Many theories exist. Did Churchill pass on the information
to FDR? Did FDR, if he knew of the attack, deliberately not do anything
about it - that is a story in itself.
The story of Alan Turing at Bletchley Park is simply remarkable and does
deserve a greater coverage of his life and his successes. The man was a
brilliant scientist and is, to this day, considered by many as the Father of
Modern Computing. He designed and built the World's first electronic
computer. This was used to crack the Nazi codes from the middle of WII
onwards. However, a 'tortured' homosexual he was 'criminalized at the end of
WWII and, basically, given no opportunity to make any more scientific
advances.
If he was an American he probably would have died a very old, very rich and
very successful scientist. In Britain, he was, metaphorically, screwed by
the establishment.... It is only in recent years, with the huge boom of I.T.
in the United Kingdom and the rise of the 'geeks', that Alan Turing is
slowly beginning to achieve the recognition that he so rightly deserves.
Without him, and this is no over-statement, the course of modern history
could have been much different and much, much worse.
(Actually, as the 'geeks' are taking over the World there might be some
mileage, and some box office, in giving Turing the 'Hollywood treatment'.).
Today Bletchley Park is owned by British Telecom and is, so I was told this
week, being used to house many of BT's Internet Servers. The many buildings
used in WWII still stand.
There was, about 100 years ago now, a BBC Wales drama based on a Welsh
Republican who actually, via Spain and Portugal, contacted the Nazis with an
offer to spy for them. There were, and still are, Welsh Nationalists who
despise the English and anything to do with the English - especially the
language.
I forget the name of the chap but he was given the codename of 'Snow' by the
Nazis. In fact, his contact in Germany was one of the highest German
military intelligence chiefs. At first the Nazis assumed that he was a
British spy. However, once he had proved his 'credentials', the Nazis put a
very high level of importance on the information he provided. He was not
only to spy in the United Kingdom for the Nazis but to also try and recruit
as many like-minded people as himself - something which he did.
However, the people whom he 'recruited' were members of British Intelligence
and his actions were closely monitored by them. They fed him false
information time and time again which he naively but willingly passed onto
his Nazi masters. British Intelligence, as they notably did several times
during the War, laid clever 'false trails' to convince the Nazis that the
information passed by 'Snow' was indeed genuine when it was not.
Ultimately, 'Snow' was arrested and given the opportunity to work for
British Intelligence under guard or to be hanged. I seem to recall that he
did the work for them but was subsequently hanged for Treason. I mention
this as the use of crosswords was used by the Nazis to arrange meetings,
pass on information, etc..
This brings me to the Battle of the River Plate in 1939. The German Pocket
battleship Admiral Graf Spee was roaming the South Atlantic and the Indian
Ocean sinking cargo vessels at leisure. Eventually, 3 Royal Navy light
cruisers caught up with her and, after a huge battle at sea, the Graf Spee
sought sanctuary in the neutral port of Montevideo. When told to leave, and
thinking that a large Royal Naval fleet had been assembled off Montevideo to
sink her, the Germans scuttled her in the River Plate.
However, the Germans had been using crossword puzzles in various neutral's
newspapers to warn the Graf Spee of British Naval movements. This was
accidently discovered by the British. A Naval Officer, doing a crossword
puzzle, suddenly realised that several of the clues spelt out Royal Navy
warships which were on duty nearby. Considering the British obssession with
crossword puzzles the Nazis probably could have chosen a better form of
'encyption'! :-)
There we go - I will shut up now!
Janek.
Janek Czekaj
Well, I started off going to write you a few lines and, apologies again, I
have ranted... Sometimes coherently, sometimes not...
I don't think there is any mileage in the 'Snow' story as such.
The reality of the situation is that, while at the time 'Snow' thought he
was a on a great crusade to free Wales, with Nazi help, from the 'evil
English', many tens of thousands of Welshmen were fighting and dying against
the Nazis. Bearing in mind the evils of Nazi Germany, 'Snow' was simply a
fervent nationalist whose irrational hatred of the English blinded him to
the evil that was Nazi Germany.
Whilst that is a story in itself, it certainly is not heroic one nor an
exciting subject for a modern 'action' film. I feel sorry for him as, so
often with many who share his views even to this day, he was brought up
believing that he had to fight a war which had been lost about 500 years
earlier.
He assumed that he was passing on important secrets when, in all reality,
his bumbling attempts at being a spy was discovered very early on by British
Intelligence. Apart from the fact that this story has already been covered
in a drama by BBC Wales I don't think that the story by itself has the legs
to make a main-stream film. However....
If you did wish to make this story into a Hollywood 'action' film, well,
let's assume a Studio had given the go ahead and had asked you to write the
script. For a start, 'Snow' could become a far more romantic person than he
was in reality - and also less incompetent! You can finely craft the balance
between 'Snow' between a British traitor or a proud Welsh patriot. (Mind
you,, he always made sure that he was well-payed by the Nazis - so maybe
'businessman' would be a better description.). A really good script would
put forward all 3 options and leave the audience to decide their own opinion
on him.
There could be an on-going tension between 'Snow' trying to stay one step
ahead of British Intelligence and British Intelligence slowly closing in on
him. 'Snow' might leak some vital information to the Nazis such as the
attack on Dieppe which resulted in hundreds of Canadians walking into a
German ambush. Add to this a Nazi Spymaster controlling 'Snow', and a
backdrop of British secrets being leaked to the Nazis, and you just might
end up with a competent chase-thriller.
You would have some great locations - rugged Welsh countryside, the
Mediterranean climes of Spain and Portugal. The Nazis, forever in the
background, manipulating the misguided 'Snow'.
I think modern audiences are far more sophisticated than many involved in
film-making give them credit for, (Okay, I know this is a generalisation of
all of us.), so I don't think it is possible anymore to make fictious
characters taking part in actual historical events. Quite often, the real
people involved in those events, and their stories, are so remarkable that,
in my opinion, if you can't make a story about them to be exciting to watch
then there is no pint in making that story into a film, or book, or whatever
in the first place.
This brings me back to the story of Alan Turing... His story, and the story
of the people who worked with him at Bletchley Park, is simply remarkable.
It is not an over-statement by any means to say that all of us owe the
freedom that we take for granted today to them. The work they did in
cracking the German codes altered the course of Humanity. Just think about
it for a moment....
...The Polish scientists fleeing with the Enigma machine ... they literally
escaped out of Poland via the last route out with the Nazis in full chase...
The Nazis having one victory after another.... seemingly unbeatable.... The
British trying frantically to crack the German codes... All the time this is
happening there are huge World events going on in the background... the
British retreat across North African, the German Invasion of Russia...
German work on the 'V' weapons.... on the 'bomb' itself ..... The
frustrations of cracking the codes and then finding that the Germans had
invented new ones.... Turing inventing the electronic computer.... it goes
on and on.... Don't forget, and it is so easy to forget these days, that the
Nazis were winning, that they seemed unbeatable in the first 3 years of the
War... and that is why the work of Bletchley and Turing is so so important
to World history.
Add to this the revolution taking place in the World today with modern
computing and the Internet....
It's incredible to think that so much of what is happening now, the freedom
of the Internet and the empowering of people, can be traced back to the
struggle between good and evil in World War Two. Wouldn't it be fantastic to
somehow tie the two stories together in one? Give Turing the recognition
that he deserves and modern audiences a fascinating, thrilling account of
the race to crack the Nazis' codes with the first electronic computer!
If I was going too write such a screenplay I would be compelled to focus on
Turing and to somehow include a Present Day Scene(s) or Sequence about the
I.T. revolution which is now under-way. These are remarkable times, (For all
the wars between the pro-Microsoft and anti-Microsoft people out there.),
this I.T. Revolution is one which rivals the great Agricultural and
Industrial Revolutions of the 18th & 19th Centuries. I envy the children who
are being born today.
To make a film about Turing part, albeit it 50 years ago, in this Revolution
would be fantastic, exciting and a privilege!!! (Gosh, I am getting carried
away now!).
(There was a code-breaker at Bletchely, an eminent Professor, who was
completely barmy. Each afternoon he would sit by the lake in the middle of
Bletchley Park and have his afternoon tea. When finished, he would throw the
cup and saucer into the lake - he did this every day for the entire course
of the War - before returning to his work in cracking codes. To this very
day the lake is still full of cups and saucers.)
The Pearl Harbour information is fascinating... A Royal Naval warship in the
Pacific is supposed to have intercepted a coded radio message from the
Japanese fleet. This was passed onto Bletchley and, by all accounts, they
learned of the attack on Pearl Harbour by decoding the information in the
message. The question, still a secret to this day, is whether Churchill
passed that info onto FDR.
At the time, the British Empire was standing alone against the Nazis - and
losing. FDR wanted to bring America into the War, (He knew that they would
inevitably end up fighting against the Nazis anyhow.), but Nazi supporters
in Congress kept opposing him. (It's a little known fact that on the day
that Warsaw fell to the Germans, that the American Congress voted by ONLY
one vote to actually keep a standing peacetime Army.).
(There is actually a HUGE story to be told about the involvement of
Hollywood in supporting Britain prior to Pearl Harbour. A great many Actors,
Writers and Directors went out on a limb, in the face of then quite vocal
opposition to becoming involved in the War by many American politicians and
members of the American public alike, to point out, in their films, the
evils of Nazi Germany.)
But what IF Churchill passed the information onto FDR? What if FDR knew
about the coming attack and did nothing? A lesser evil for a greater good?
Who knows? Certainly, the files are still considered Top Secret by the
British and are safely locked away in the vaults of Whitehall? They will not
be released for at least another 50 years. If there was no truth in the
allegations then why are the files still secret?
There you go Jeri, I have ranted on enough now.... Sometimes to the point,
sometimes missing it by several miles :^)
Have fun, be happy.
Janek.
p.s.
Don't foorget - James Bond is a spy and he has the odd piece of 'breathless
action'.
"Jeri Jo Thomas" <kata...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.127c19234...@news.earthlink.net...
> Janek Czekaj said ...
>
> -> There we go - I will shut up now!
> ->
> If you must, but I found this very interesting reading. My
> questions then, would be: How would you write this as a script?
> As a fictional person amidst the historical story or with all
> historical characters? If this way, who would be the most
> appropriate protagonist? Snow, for an example? Or the Naval
> officer who discovered the code in his crossword puzzle? It seems
> to me that the spy biz, being covert, doesn't lend itself to
> breathless action, and I know about "Where Eagles Dare"; The
> Eagle Has Landed"; and movies like that, but how would you make
> this a "high concept" (what=ever= that mean), crowd-pleasing
> movie about this subject?
> --
> <*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>
> Jeri Jo & Little Garcia Bear--
> Stop by my web page
> http://home.earthlink.net/~katana365/jjthomas/
> <*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>
>
Fred Taylor
<janek...@ic24.net> writes
What's the Welsh for 'Eye of the Needle'?
>
>
>
>
--
Fred Taylor
Janek Czekaj
I have no idea what the Welsh is for 'Eye of the Needle'
I am an English-speaking Welsh person - albeit with a good drop of Polish
blood in me - and I have very strong views on the Welsh language. I do think
it should be supported and encouraged but;
1. I don't think it should be forced on people in schools and the workplace.
2. The Welsh Language Arts, including Film & Television, are hugely
subsidised by the tax-payers in Wales when there is NO equivalent for
English-speaking Welsh.
This has led to a great deal of bitterness and has resulted in the Welsh
Media, IMO, being dominated by a self-serving clique of Welsh speakers.
Virtually every decent English-speaking Welsh Film-maker I know has had to
leave Wales to work in the industry. Some of whom, who now work successfully
in Hollywood, are never mentioned in the Welsh Media despite their personal
success simply because they are NOT Welsh-speakers.
Or, of course, you could have just been remarking that it would be easier to
take a camel through the eye of a needle than it is to make such a drama!?
In which case, I will get down off my high horse.
Janek.
"Fred Taylor" <fr...@vallier.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dqoqhRAE...@vallier.demon.co.uk...
> In article <IFIQ3.512$j5.30082@news2-hme0>, Janek Czekaj
> <janek...@ic24.net> writes
Fred Taylor
<janek...@ic24.net> writes
>Fred,
>
>I have no idea what the Welsh is for 'Eye of the Needle'
Janek
Not trying to take the piss (I agree with practically every word you
write). No, it was just my little Anglo-Welsh (on Mum's side) way of
commenting on your rather interesting WW2 plot's similarity to the Ken
Follet thriller and subsequent movie (starring Donald Sutherland) of the
same name.
I live most of the year in Cornwall and the way the Cornish Nats are
getting their snouts in the trough (and the Cornish language on life-
support), in a few years the situation here is going to be similar to
Wales.
--
Fred Taylor
Janek Czekaj
This reminds me of a personal story... bear with me....
A few years ago I worked on an Arts programme for an ITV company... We were
inviewing a famous author - i.e. he had agreed to appear for free to plug
his latest book. Upon arrival at the Studios he insisted on knowing where
the make-up room was. I showed him to it and introduced him to our very
experienced and very talented make-up artist.
However, he didn't need her help as he had brought his own make-up kit with
him... He then proceeded to apply his own make-up for the interview. When
finished he turned to the make-up lady and myself and asked "How does it
look? No lines are showing I hope?" We both agreed that he looked fine.
When he had left the room the make-up artist turned to me and said "Lines!?
I could barely see his face for all the foundation that he had put on!" He
certinaly was a very vain, pompous person.
It is interesting how these auhtors market themselves. Most agree to appear
free on TV - often paying their own costs - as the money that they can make
from publicising their novels, thrillers, cookery and excercise books in
this way far outweights any cost that they might initially inccur.
Okay, on a different subject now.... Yes, it's interesting how someone can
have an idea and then find out that there are already a 101 different yet
similar books, films, scripts circulating on the subject. The suggestions
that I put forward to Jeri were ones that came simply off the top of my
head - as I pointed out, BBC Wales had already made such a drama-doc.
There is a different thread ongoing in this newsgroup at the moment where
people are debating this whole bizarre area of different people coming up
with the same, or at the very least similar ideas, when they are cities, or
even countries, apart. At the end of the day 2 people having the same idea
doesn't mean that the two of them will end up with identicial, or even
similar, scripts/books. That is wheret he secret of writing good scripts
comes from.
Okay, changing tack again...
If you are unlucky the cornish Nats will discover, like the Welsh Nats, that
they can make a great deal of money out of 'blackmailing' the British
Government. Before you know it you will have Cornish language TV Stations
employing only Cornish speakers, (A great way for securing well paid jobs
for one's Cornish speaking relatives.), plus hundreds of Cornish language
QUANGOS - again only employing Cornish speakers in very well paid jobs
indeed. The common thread between then being, apart form the rule on only
emplooying Cornish speakers, is how they will constantly moan about hard
pressed they are and how they need more money.
Trendy liberals in both Conservative and Labour Governments, not really
understanding the issues, will pile more money in and the Cornish speakers
will become increidbly rich. Inevitably, as there will only be a small
number of Cornish Speakers, you will end up with the same faces on virtually
alll the QUANGOS - they will only earnn about 4 -5,000 pounds per QUANGO but
most will be on at least half a dozen.
Talented English-speaking Cornish people will be oppressed and the brightest
and best will leave. A form of cultural apatheid will develop just as it has
done here in Wales. It is unwritten, it is silent but it is as racist and as
ugly as any other form of discrimination.
The 'best' form of this will be the 'bi-lingual' policy where companies are
forced to adopt a bi-lingual policy - as it is cheaper to employ one person
instead of two more and more jobs will go to Cornish speakers instead of
English-speaking Cornish people. No one will report this injustice as the
Cornish TV Stations & Newspapers will certainly be the first to adopt this.
Eventually they will move to the situation where they will demand Cornish
independence. Suddenly, they will realise that independence will mean the
end of the gravy train, (I.e an idependent Cornwall will not be able to
afford all those Cornish language QUANGOS.), and will then start saying
things like "We never really wanted a separate Cornish state!" Bizarrely,
this will lead to a Cornish Assembly costing hundreds of millions and
Cornwall will become another QUANGOLAND just like Wales.
If you think I am joking, just come to Wales and dig around below the
surface...
Free speech mate!? You can forget it!
"Fred Taylor" <fr...@vallier.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:tOvTTCAN...@vallier.demon.co.uk...
Janek Czekaj
Autonomous, Non-elected Government Organisation'. There, you wish you hadn't
asked now don't you!?
In the 1980s when Britain had a Conservative Government my own Country of
Wales, which is traditionally a Labour bedrock of support bearing in mind
the appalling social conditions that the Welsh have had for about 500 years
now, was run from Westminster via QUANGOs.
Basically, the Conservative government put their supporters on these
QUANGOs, many of whom made an awful lot of money from being on them, and
many important public bodies, such as National Health Trusts for hospitals,
Schools Associations, Arts Councils, etc, were run by QUANGOs. What this
means is that a group of non-elected people ran these large organisations
and had the power not only to spend vast sums of tax-payers money but also,
just as importantly, were more important than the elected Labour MPs.
It was a disgrace to democracy. Naturally, the Labour opposition was adamant
that they would all be finished when they came to power. Labour has been in
power now for 2 years and, guess what, there are now MORE QUANGOs in Wales.
I think, by and all, the same people are on them - they have just changed
the colours of their shirts from blue to red.
Janek.
"Jeri Jo Thomas" <kata...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.127ed76ba...@news.earthlink.net...
> Janek Czekaj said ...
>
> -> ...Cornwall will become another QUANGOLAND just like Wales.
> ->
> -> If you think I am joking, just come to Wales and dig around below the
> -> surface...
> ->
> What is a QUANGO and why does it have to be capitaliz(s)ed?