Paddington Station H&C Platforms

[77002]

TfL are carrying out extensive work on the Hammersmith & City
platforms at Paddington Station. The work is sad on two counts.
Firstly NR and TfL have again failed to move the H&C service back to
platforms 14 and 15. Along with a single lead NR track in from Subway
Junction, to platform 16, this would allow same direction cross-
platform interchange.

Moreover, TfL are replacing the canopy over platforms 15 and 16. The
new canopy is not in the Standard Great Western style. Thus the
overall uniform appearance of Paddington Station is being marred.

[bob]

On May 21, 2:31 pm, 77002 <e27...@gmail.com> wrote:
> TfL are carrying out extensive work on the Hammersmith & City
> platforms at Paddington Station.  The work is sad on two counts.
> Firstly NR and TfL have again failed to move the H&C service back to
> platforms 14 and 15.  Along with a single lead NR track in from Subway
> Junction, to platform 16, this would allow same direction cross-
> platform interchange.

Surely the NR platforms are all terminus platforms, in which case even
with the layout you propose, 50% of the time they would be opposite
direction cross platform interchanges, which aren't any improvement on
what we have today.

Robin

[77002]

You are correct, terminating trains would only be same direction half
of the time. However, I believe that is an improvement on the no
cross platform interchange that we have today.

[Peter Masson]

"77002" <e27...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:36e6bf6b-90e7-485a...@m10g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...

> TfL are carrying out extensive work on the Hammersmith & City
> platforms at Paddington Station. The work is sad on two counts.
> Firstly NR and TfL have again failed to move the H&C service back to
> platforms 14 and 15. Along with a single lead NR track in from Subway
> Junction, to platform 16, this would allow same direction cross-
> platform interchange.
>

What is worth doing depends on the eventual Crossrail service. If, as is
likely, Crossrail is extended to Reading (and especially if it is also
extended to Reading via Heathrow) there aren't likely to be any Relief Line
trains from Paddington terminus. It would then be better to abolish
platforms 13 and 14, and extend 12 to full length (also allowing access to
12 with a full length train in 11). Is there any scope for making 12 an
island, after the style of Kings Cross platform 0?

Peter

[Paul Scott]

"Peter Masson" <peter....@privacy.com> wrote in message
news:WaGdnX0dzOJtwCfS...@bt.com...

> What is worth doing depends on the eventual Crossrail service. If, as is
> likely, Crossrail is extended to Reading (and especially if it is also
> extended to Reading via Heathrow) there aren't likely to be any Relief
> Line trains from Paddington terminus. It would then be better to abolish
> platforms 13 and 14, and extend 12 to full length (also allowing access to
> 12 with a full length train in 11). Is there any scope for making 12 an
> island, after the style of Kings Cross platform 0?

AFAIAA they are going to convert P12/P13 into a full length platform, but I
haven't seen it in anything official yet. With P14 then ending up as the
only short platform. As you suggest, with most of the relief service
diverted to Crossrail, and the Greenfords removed, and electrification
allowing for EMUs (probably in multiple so 8 car) covering the remaining
semi-fast services, there is hardly any practical advantage to the OP's
proposal.

Paul S

[lonelytraveller]

On May 21, 1:31 pm, 77002 <e27...@gmail.com> wrote:
> TfL are carrying out extensive work on the Hammersmith & City
> platforms at Paddington Station.  The work is sad on two counts.
> Firstly NR and TfL have again failed to move the H&C service back to
> platforms 14 and 15.  Along with a single lead NR track in from Subway
> Junction, to platform 16, this would allow same direction cross-
> platform interchange.

And fare evasion. It would allow fare evasion.

[77002]

On Jun 8, 3:04 pm, lonelytraveller

There are many stations where platforms are shared by New Southern
Railway (Just love that name) and Southwest Trains. These train
companies do not seem to cope.

[77002]

Let me re-phrase that: These train companies seem to cope. To wit,
they are not overly concerned that sharing platforms increases the
risk of fare evasion.

[CJB]

On Jun 8, 3:40 pm, 77002 <e27...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 3:31 pm, 77002 <e27...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 8, 3:04 pm, lonelytraveller
>
> > <nospam_lonelytraveller_nos...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> > > On May 21, 1:31 pm, 77002 <e27...@gmail.com> wrote:> TfL are carrying out extensive work on the Hammersmith & City
> > > > platforms at Paddington Station.  The work is sad on two counts.
> > > > Firstly NR and TfL have again failed to move the H&C service back to
> > > > platforms 14 and 15.  Along with a single lead NR track in from Subway
> > > > Junction, to platform 16, this would allow same direction cross-
> > > > platform interchange.
>

The restrictions on platform 12 are the congestion at peak times and
the opposing flows of humanity.

Platform 12 is largely obstructed by:

* The angular gateline which is totally inadequate during the rush
hour - in both directions
* The flow of commuters to/from platforms 13/14 and the main concourse
* The flow of commuters / tourists to/from the HConn on 12
* The flow of tourists with luggage to/from the escalators and lifts
for the taxi rank and the main concourse
* The obstructions from the trip carpets soaking up the drips from the
leaking roof together with strategically placed drip collecting
buckets
* Commuters waiting at the departure board at the head of platform 12
to see if the HConn. really will depart from 12
* Tourists stopping at the head of 12 to browse the various maps
* Passengers using the ATM at the head of 12, also the coffee bar and
pasty shops
* Obstructions by various sandwich boards apologising for all of the
disruption
* The ever increasing girth of the dividing fence running the length
of 12

Eventually access to 15/16 will be via the new canal-side entrance,
but this will require a trek round the back of Paddington so this will
not reduce the flow to/from 12/13/14 and the main concourse.

CJB.

[77002]

On Jun 9, 12:47 am, Neil Williams <wensleyd...@pacersplace.org.uk>
wrote:

> 77002 <e27...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> There are many stations where platforms are shared by New Southern
> >> Railway (Just love that name) and Southwest Trains.  These train
> >> companies do not seem to cope.
>
> > Let me re-phrase that: These train companies seem to cope.  To wit,
> > they are not overly concerned that sharing platforms increases the
> > risk of fare evasion.
>

> For fares purposes, the National Rail TOCs are effectively one
> organisation.
>
And TfL cannot be brung into this happy family because?

[77002]

Are you saying that one will no longer be able to reach the H&C
platforms from the existing bridge? i.e. up the steps on platform 12,
over the bridge and then down steps to suburban platforms 13 & 14, or
further over the bridge and down steps to H&C platforms 15 & 16?

IMHO the Bridge could usefully stretch all the way to Platform one
giving access to all mainline platforms.

How for will the treck to the Canal side entrance be?

[amogles]

On 21 Mai, 18:12, "Paul Scott" <pmnotscottva...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> AFAIAA they are going to convert P12/P13 into a full length platform, but I
> haven't seen it in anything official yet.  With P14 then ending up as the
> only short platform.  As you suggest, with most of the relief service
> diverted to Crossrail, and the Greenfords removed, and electrification
> allowing for EMUs (probably in multiple so 8 car) covering the remaining
> semi-fast services, there is hardly any practical advantage to the OP's
> proposal.
>
> Paul S

What is happening to the Greenfords? Are these also using Crossrail?
What terminating seices (if any) are likely to remain that use the
relief lines?

On another note, where precisely will Crosrail join the GWML? On the
relief line side or on the main?

[77002]

On the relief side, utilizing a flat junction. My best guess is that
it will be somewhat west of Royal Oak station. But that is based on
the hoardings there at the moment.

[77002]

On Jun 11, 2:00 pm, Neil Williams <wensleyd...@pacersplace.org.uk>
wrote:

> 77002 <e27...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > IMHO the Bridge could usefully stretch all the way to Platform one
> > giving access to all mainline platforms.
>

> It does, albeit with a bit of a bend to bring it into the trainshed.
>
In the late 1960s I utilized that bridge every day. The memory plays
tricks, I do not recall where it stopped. I did use it a few weeks
back, but I was approaching from the canalside entrance. It is a
buiding site just now.

[77002]

On Jun 11, 3:24 pm, amogles <amog...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 21 Mai, 18:12, "Paul Scott" <pmnotscottva...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > AFAIAA they are going to convert P12/P13 into a full length platform, but I
> > haven't seen it in anything official yet.  With P14 then ending up as the
> > only short platform.  As you suggest, with most of the relief service
> > diverted to Crossrail, and the Greenfords removed, and electrification
> > allowing for EMUs (probably in multiple so 8 car) covering the remaining
> > semi-fast services, there is hardly any practical advantage to the OP's
> > proposal.
>
> > Paul S
>
> What is happening to the Greenfords? Are these also using Crossrail?
> What terminating seices (if any) are likely to remain that use the
> relief lines?
>

AFIK, the Greenford trains will no longer run thru to Paddington.

[Peter Masson]

"77002" <e27...@gmail.com> wrote

>
>AFIK, the Greenford trains will no longer run thru to Paddington.

The proposal is for the Greenfords to run as a Greenford - West Ealing
shuttle, using a new Bay at West Ealing, and not conflicting with the Relief
Lines at all.

One missing link is Willesden Junction to Ealing Broadway - is there a case
for extending Barking to Gospel Oak trains to Greenford?

Peter

[77002]

It is a neat idea Peter. However, I think paths thru Ealing Broadway
will be hard to find post Crossrail. Since demand for such a service
is unknown, it is difficult to make a case for it.

It had occurred to that one way to provide a thru service to somewhere
from the Greenford branch would be to electrify it, with the third and
fourth rail, and extend a Central Line service from Greenford to West
Ealing. However, that would raise all sorts of issues concerning
platforms lengths, signalling, etc. Moreover the branch is utilized
for diversions during engineering work.

[Paul Scott]

"77002" <e27...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:56225b31-27a2-40e4...@i19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...

> Are you saying that one will no longer be able to reach the H&C
> platforms from the existing bridge? i.e. up the steps on platform 12,
> over the bridge and then down steps to suburban platforms 13 & 14, or
> further over the bridge and down steps to H&C platforms 15 & 16?

That's correct. Links to the planning drawings have been posted in previous
threads over the last few years but you may have missed them. There will be
no paid side access between the H&C and National Rail platforms.

> IMHO the Bridge could usefully stretch all the way to Platform one
> giving access to all mainline platforms.

The CP5 enhancement plans for PAD include a further development of the west
end footbridges, although detail is a bit sketchy.

Paul S

[77002]

On Jun 14, 9:38 am, "Paul Scott" <pmnotscottva...@btinternet.com>
wrote:

It is an awful long walk from Praed Street to the Canal Side. I am
not even sure of the way. If one wants to travel clockwise on the
Circle the District and Circle Line platforms are not real helpful.
One can only reach Edgware Road without changing trains.

[Paul Scott]

"77002" <e27...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:48a6d840-038d-4d1c...@s9g2000vbg.googlegroups.com...

CJBs did not provide a full or correct description though. He is grinding a
personal axe about Paddington, as usual.

The canal side entrance is not the only entrance to the new H&C station,
there is also an entrance from the station side (it's effectively in line
with the taxi waiting area, and is also accessible from the 'land side'
footbridge at the end of the train shed).

Passengers between the station and the H&C will NOT need to go via the canal
side entrance...

Paul S

[Mizter T]

On 14/06/2012 10:19, Paul Scott wrote:
> [snip]

> CJBs did not provide a full or correct description though. He is
> grinding a personal axe about Paddington, as usual.
>
> The canal side entrance is not the only entrance to the new H&C station,
> there is also an entrance from the station side (it's effectively in
> line with the taxi waiting area, and is also accessible from the 'land
> side' footbridge at the end of the train shed).
>
> Passengers between the station and the H&C will NOT need to go via the
> canal side entrance...

But can't we just agree that, regardless of the reality, it's absolutely
disgusting, abominable and destined to be a total disaster?