Google finally offers Transit Directions -- DC (WMATA) still not featured!
Brian
metropolitan area mappers started adding geographically accurate rail
routes to their street atlases, Google is still relying on local
agencies to provide piecemeal nfo on rail routes as well as bus -- why
can't they process the latter directly off of GIS data such as
publically available, insanely detailed PDFs?
And they apparently have to wait for at least one major system --
WMATA -- to enroll in the program. Pathetic!
I.e. In the US Capital of all places, there is still NO website that
properly maps transit directions instead of driving directions. New
York, and even Seattle and LA (which scrapped their heavy rail
systems) are now featured.
Also, No feature in Google allows you to overlay fixed rail / transit
routes citywide! Not even for the cities mentioned.
The way secondary roads are built into their satellite data from the
get-go. Why? American auto-blindness?
And the directions for Maryland MTA aren't all that great, either.
Google Maps is a mapping database. They shouldn't have to rely on
local agencies except to mine GIS data from PDFs for bus routes. They
certainly shouldn't have to rely on local agencies to publish (and
display as an overlay, the way roads are displayed!) accurate fixed
rail routes and station locations.
It's bad enough that ADC, our local mapping company in the Mid-
Atlantic, stopped showing Metrorail as a prominent feature of their
streetmaps and downgraded it to a thin red line marked "S". (!)
Stephen Sprunk
> Google Maps is a mapping database. They shouldn't have to rely on
> local agencies except to mine GIS data from PDFs for bus routes. They
> certainly shouldn't have to rely on local agencies to publish (and
> display as an overlay, the way roads are displayed!) accurate fixed
> rail routes and station locations.
You misunderstand. Google Maps (and Google Earth) is _not_ a database.
It is a slick GUI interface to dozens of databases that Google licenses
from third parties -- the same ones used in GPS units, print maps, etc.
There is no comprehensive database that gives transit route info for
every TA in the US. Google Maps _allows_ TAs to create their own
database and submit it for inclusion, but they are not going to build
the database themselves by scraping PDF files. If you want to complain
about WMATA not creating/submitting a database, complain to them, not
Google.
S
--
Stephen Sprunk "Stupid people surround themselves with smart
CCIE #3723 people. Smart people surround themselves with
K5SSS smart people who disagree with them." --Isaac Jaffe
Keith F. Lynch
> I.e. In the US Capital of all places, there is still NO website
> that properly maps transit directions instead of driving directions.
> New York, and even Seattle and LA (which scrapped their heavy rail
> systems) are now featured.
Perhaps that's because of the complexity of mass transit in the
DC area. In addition to Metrorail, we have numerous bus systems,
including Metrobus, ART, CUE, DASH, Montgomery County Ride On,
Connect-a-Ride, MTA, Fairfax Connector, Loudoun County Transit, PRTC,
George, The Bus, and the DC Circulator, each of which has anywhere
from two to several hundred routes and schedules and its own fare
structure, including whether to provide or accept transfers to and
from other systems, and for how much discount. There are also some
solitary buses, such as the one that takes you from the Dulles Airport
main terminal to the Udvar-Hazy Center. Most but not all of these
systems accept SmarTrip cards.
At least one Metrobus line overlaps Baltimore Light Rail. Baltimore
has its own systems of transit, including Light Rail, its own subway
system, and numerous bus systems. I've heard that some of these, in
turn, overlap those of Philadelphia, and that some of Philadelphia's
in turn overlap those of New York City.
And there are the MTA and VRE "commuter rail" systems. And various
van pool systems and official slug lines.
Even if you just stick to Metrorail, they are single-tracking
somewhere on the system *more than half the time*, in which case they
themselves say that their Ride Guide and published information is
inaccurate. For Google to mirror their Ride Guide, or even list the
alleged times between stations, would damage Google's reputation.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Brian R.
> Also, No feature in Google allows you to overlay fixed rail / transit
> routes citywide! Not even for the cities mentioned.
>
> The way secondary roads are built into their satellite data from the
> get-go. Why? American auto-blindness?
>
> Google Maps is a mapping database. They shouldn't have to rely on
> local agencies except to mine GIS data from PDFs for bus routes. They
> certainly shouldn't have to rely on local agencies to publish (and
> display as an overlay, the way roads are displayed!) accurate fixed
> rail routes and station locations.
>
> It's bad enough that ADC, our local mapping company in the Mid-
> Atlantic, stopped showing Metrorail as a prominent feature of their
> streetmaps and downgraded it to a thin red line marked "S". (!)
I should mention I was WRONG about the transit overlay. It looks
like they are trying to correct that problem, but they only have route
info for certain cities. Google, which prides it self on being
socially
responsible, has finally started posting CLICKABLE icons of train
stops
-- in certain cities such as Dallas -- that display the route of ALL
nearby
transit (rail) lines if you click on them. Now this could be because
only
those cities participate. Congrats Google for making the effort!
If you're wondering, I just noticed all these new features such as
clickable transit icons because they're still pretty unavailable for
the DC area.
However, there is one thing they could do (besides fixing Google
Groups) without requiring the participation of transit authorities.
And that is ---Display the darn Station icons at city level, when
you zoom out more than 1/2 a mile!, for heavens sake!--- Right
now transit stops disappear when you zoom out of street view,
which makes it ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE to see what the hell you are
looking at when trying to figure out where a transit line goes.
Admittedly, they can't go too far out or the downtowns would
look like a mass of train stops.
Stephen, so you're saying Google doesn't keep a huge database,
it just serves up GIS data? Interesting!
Who contributes all those new "street view" panoramic photos?
Does Google do that or is that user-generated? I had no idea
so many areas had been covered -- I didn't notice until recently
that they've done entire cities in the past year. It seems they
have some sort of technology for taking high-speed panoramic photos
from a moving car. Someone drove the "loneliest highway in the
US" to take a pedestrian's eye view of Stimmons Hwy in Nevada.
Another tip for Google: They should show bike trails as rights of
way.
Then people would be able to document a "Google street view"
of the Great Allegheny Trail from Pittsburgh to DC, for instance.
I guess that is another hole in the databases they are forced to rely
on.
g'damn local governments have ample data on interchanges and none
on bikes or transit... but then of course it's not a funding priority
for them, is it.
Heck, WMATA has completely fallen down on the job when it comes
to mapping transit info. They didn't complain when ADC downgraded
its transit info on street atlases. They don't publish their
excellent
(and expensive to create) individual station maps, or their incredibly
useful bus maps that show every system and are only displayed in
stations. They could make money!
Surely there is an open source transit mapping group that Google
could rely on for GIS data about transit and trails.
Keith F. Lynch
> Who contributes all those new "street view" panoramic photos?
> Does Google do that or is that user-generated?
Google does it.
> Heck, WMATA has completely fallen down on the job when it comes to
> mapping transit info. They didn't complain when ADC downgraded its
> transit info on street atlases.
When was this? My ADC maps all show as much transit information as
they ever did.
> They don't publish their excellent (and expensive to create)
> individual station maps, or their incredibly useful bus maps that
> show every system and are only displayed in stations. They could
> make money!
I'm not sure what you mean. WMATA's maps showing all bus routes
used to cost a dollar or two, then they were free, and now they're
available free online, at http://wmata.com/pdfs/bus/DC.pdf,
http://wmata.com/pdfs/bus/MD.pdf, and http://wmata.com/pdfs/bus/VA.pdf.
If you mean the neighborhood maps mounted in the stations, those
aren't very accurate. Notice, for instance, where the maps in the
downtown stations claim the convention center is.
Keith F. Lynch
> Brian R. <wr...@erols.com> wrote:
>> Heck, WMATA has completely fallen down on the job when it comes to
>> mapping transit info. They didn't complain when ADC downgraded its
>> transit info on street atlases.
> When was this? My ADC maps all show as much transit information as
> they ever did.
I just checked the latest local ADC map in a store today, and I see
what you mean. The big orange rectangles that mark Metro stations in
all my ADC maps have been replaced in the newest editions with tiny
green circles. I wonder why they did that.
Maybe it's because Metro is increasingly not an option for anyone who
can get around in any other way, even if only by walking. Their level
of service has gone from unacceptable to atrocious to you've got to be
s---ting me. Even when they aren't single-tracking at walking speed
on all five lines at once, there are unexplained delays when all
trains just stop for sometimes a half hour or more, or are unloaded,
leaving passengers to wait on the platform for up to an hour before
another short train slowly enters the station, packed so tightly
with standees that it takes ten minutes of trying to get the doors
closed again.
And Metro's website, when it isn't simply down, is stuffed with
self-congratulation, about how Metro is the best ride in the nation,
and about how Catoe has won various awards, and about how Metro needs
more and more money.
If I did lousy work, and told my boss that I was in a "death spiral"
unless he gave me enormous raises, I don't think I'd get them. I
think I'd get fired -- which is exactly what should happen to every
Metro manager or employee with a six-figure salary.
And there should be no more talk of *expanding* Metro. Not until they
can competently and profitably operate the system they already have.
Clark F Morris
wrote:
Competently, I would agree with. Given settlement patterns, political
interference from all ends of the spectrum and current fuel taxes,
profitably I wouldn't. On the other hand the ongoing devaluation of
the dollar (what do you think a target inflation rate of 2 percent
means?) means that WMATA needs more money each your just to stay
even. Given what has happened to the cost of steel and some other
commodities WMATA needs (copper wire anyone), their costs are probably
rising faster than inflation. It has to come from somewhere.