Re: There should be litter bins on the underground
1506
> There are enough outlets selling take-away food on the underground and, at
> times, I have to eat as I use the tube to travel between appointments. No,
> I'm not going to carry around food wrapping with me all day so I have to
> find somewhere to discretely drop it. I never leave it on train seats. Now,
> with swine flu, we are told to bin our tissues. Where? So they get left on
> seats. I am not responsible for this but many people are. I know that
> sometime in the past a bomb was planted in a litter bin. As a knee-jerk
> reaction all the bins were removed. Now there is a greater hazard of injury
> by slipping on discarded litter than there is of being a victim to terrorist
> activity. And, possibly, vermin infestation is a consequence of the litter
> bin removal. At some stations they use clear bags, which seems to be the
> obvious answer. A terrorist could as easily plant a bomb in a bin in Oxford
> Street and, unlike the underground stations, Oxford Street stores don't
> close when they receive a bomb warning, instead there is a discrete message
> to alert staff. So, bring back the bins on the underground. Not having them
> there is a serious health risk.
When I first utilized the London Underground in the 1960s, dark blue
litterbins were commonplace. As the IRA terror campaign came to
London, they were removed. Lockers at mainline stations where also
removed.
IIRC the same sized litterbins started to re-appear the 1980s. At
that time they were painted orange. My best guess is that they have
again been removed. This time due to the evil of islamic terrorism.
Do not expect them to return any time soon, if ever.
Tim Fenton
"1506" <adrian_a...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:72b1a809-c805-44d0...@37g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
> > There are enough outlets selling take-away food on the underground and,
> > at
> > times, I have to eat as I use the tube to travel between appointments.
> > No,
> > I'm not going to carry around food wrapping with me all day so I have to
> > find somewhere to discretely drop it.
I'm not sure where you can buy take-away food *on the underground* - which
to me means beyond the barrier line at any given station. And you don't have
to carry the wrapping around with you "all day"; merely to the next time you
get off the train and out of the station.
> When I first utilized the London Underground in the 1960s, dark blue
> litterbins were commonplace. As the IRA terror campaign came to
> London, they were removed. Lockers at mainline stations where also
> removed.
Unattended lockers were certainly removed. But the first phase of the
Jubilee Line featured station litter bins, and that wasn't until 1979.
> IIRC the same sized litterbins started to re-appear the 1980s. At
> that time they were painted orange. My best guess is that they have
> again been removed. This time due to the evil of islamic terrorism.
Yawn. The litter bins were removed during the 80s after Seamus
O'Timing-Device and his pals used them to hide bombs. This pre-dates any
activity in the capital by the followers of Lardy Binman.
> Do not expect them to return any time soon, if ever.
That'll be a similar timescale to Adrian Auer Hudson getting his facts and
timescales in order, then.
--
Tim
http://tim-fenton.fotopic.net/
http://zelo-street.blogspot.com/
Peter Smyth
"Tim Fenton" <timf...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:79a9ngF...@mid.individual.net...
>
> "1506" <adrian_a...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:72b1a809-c805-44d0...@37g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
>> > There are enough outlets selling take-away food on the underground
>> > and, at
>> > times, I have to eat as I use the tube to travel between
>> > appointments. No,
>> > I'm not going to carry around food wrapping with me all day so I
>> > have to
>> > find somewhere to discretely drop it.
>
> I'm not sure where you can buy take-away food *on the underground* -
> which to me means beyond the barrier line at any given station. And
> you don't have to carry the wrapping around with you "all day"; merely
> to the next time you get off the train and out of the station.
There are quite a few kiosks on platforms selling crisps/drinks etc.
Liverpool Street (Circle) and Bank (W&C) are two that spring to mind.
Peter Smyth
redcat
>
> "Tim Fenton" <timf...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:79a9ngF...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "1506" <adrian_a...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:72b1a809-c805-44d0...@37g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
>>> > There are enough outlets selling take-away food on the underground
>>> > and, at
>>> > times, I have to eat as I use the tube to travel between >
>>> appointments. No,
>>> > I'm not going to carry around food wrapping with me all day so I >
>>> have to
>>> > find somewhere to discretely drop it.
>>
>> I'm not sure where you can buy take-away food *on the underground* -
>> which to me means beyond the barrier line at any given station. And
>> you don't have to carry the wrapping around with you "all day"; merely
>> to the next time you get off the train and out of the station.
>
>
allergic reaction to whatever was blowing in the wind. I ended up
carrying wads of used tissues around because it was very hard to find a
bin anywhere.
Tim Roll-Pickering
> I'm not sure where you can buy take-away food *on the underground* - which
> to me means beyond the barrier line at any given station. And you don't
> have to carry the wrapping around with you "all day"; merely to the next
> time you get off the train and out of the station.
There's a bakery outlet on the Aldgate bound platform of the Circle at
Liverpool Street for one.
Mizter T
On Jun 10, 6:44 pm, "Tim Fenton" <timfen...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> "1506" <adrian_auerhud...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > When I first utilized the London Underground in the 1960s, dark blue
> > litterbins were commonplace. As the IRA terror campaign came to
> > London, they were removed. Lockers at mainline stations where also
> > removed.
>
> Unattended lockers were certainly removed. But the first phase of the
> Jubilee Line featured station litter bins, and that wasn't until 1979.
>
> > IIRC the same sized litterbins started to re-appear the 1980s. At
> > that time they were painted orange. My best guess is that they have
> > again been removed. This time due to the evil of islamic terrorism.
>
> Yawn. The litter bins were removed during the 80s after Seamus
> O'Timing-Device and his pals used them to hide bombs. This pre-dates any
> activity in the capital by the followers of Lardy Binman.
Afraid to say I don't think that's quite right, though off hand I
can't remember the potted history of litter bins on the public
transport system in London. However, I think that to an extent some
litter binds made come backs in the 90's, post IRA ceasefires, before
being removed again more recently. It could possibly even be a rather
more complicated story than that, with bins initially only being
removed from some stations, and perhaps returning to some before they
returned to others, before later being withdrawn again.
The clear plastic bin bag in a hoop is I think a more recent
'innovation'.
The significant incident was an IRA bomb left in a litter bin on the
concourse of Victoria station in 1991 that killed a man and injured 38
others. There was also a bomb at London Bridge station in 1992 that
injured 29 people, though I don't know where it was placed.
There were many other IRA bomb attacks on public transport in London,
the memory of many of which has since been largely forgotten in the
collective memory - but please do note that I'm not saying litter bins
were necessarily involved in them, I'm just sifting through some of
the lesser leafed pages of history. Of course the IRA's general modus
operandi was to call in a warning
Here's an Independent report of two bomb attacks on one day in
February 1993 - one on a Victoria to Ramsgate train which was stopped
at Kent House and evacuated, shortly after which the bomb blew up -
then later in the day there was a bomb at South Ken Underground
station, again after a warning and evacuation:
http://tinyurl.com/IRA-bombs-Independent-Feb-1993
There were also bombs at Clapham Jn station in 1991, and Hampstead
Tube station in 1992, amongst others.
It's not just the early 90's - on 8 September 1973 there was a bomb at
Victoria station, then a couple of days later (on 10 September) two
bombs exploded at KX and Euston Underground stations, which injured 21
people - though the two car bombs that exploded earlier in March of
that year managed to injure around 180 people, whilst two other car
bombs were defused.
And back in February 1940, an IRA bomb exploded in Euston station.
Some of the above information has been sourced from the Museum of
London's website here:
http://tinyurl.com/Museum-of-London-IRA-bombings
Miles Bader
> IIRC the same sized litterbins started to re-appear the 1980s. At
> that time they were painted orange. My best guess is that they have
> again been removed. This time due to the evil of islamic terrorism.
> Do not expect them to return any time soon, if ever.
Same stupidity on some train-lines here in Tokyo. Apparently not in
reaction to any event of domestic terrorism (the only thing I know about
is the 1995 subway gassings), but rather in a silly post-9/11
"OMGthey'reeverywhere!" spate of pointless and annoying flailing about.
Very annoying when you've bought a snack at the start of an hour-long
train ride.
Meanwhile, _other_ lines in the same city have plenty of trash
receptacles...
[Other reactions included heavily equipped policeman standing on boxes
in train stations from which they could scan the crowds, to no apparent
end; the policeman have gone of course, but the trash bins don't seem to
have come back... guess which one costs money, and which one saves
costs.]
-Miles
--
Religion, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature
of the Unknowable.
Tim Fenton
"Mizter T" <mizt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1a86040e-0820-44de...@j20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > IIRC the same sized litterbins started to re-appear the 1980s. At
> > > that time they were painted orange. My best guess is that they have
> > > again been removed. This time due to the evil of islamic terrorism.
>
> > Yawn. The litter bins were removed during the 80s after Seamus
> > O'Timing-Device and his pals used them to hide bombs. This pre-dates any
> > activity in the capital by the followers of Lardy Binman.
> Afraid to say I don't think that's quite right, though off hand I
> can't remember the potted history of litter bins on the public
> transport system in London. However, I think that to an extent some
> litter binds made come backs in the 90's, post IRA ceasefires, before
> being removed again more recently.
I wasn't aware of that. MX is that it's been a case of "wait for the bod
with the clean-up trolley and drop it on the floor in front of them" for
some years now, except ...
> The clear plastic bin bag in a hoop is I think a more recent
> 'innovation'.
... as you mention, the clear plastic bin bag.
> The significant incident was an IRA bomb left in a litter bin on the
> concourse of Victoria station in 1991 that killed a man and injured 38
> others. There was also a bomb at London Bridge station in 1992 that
> injured 29 people, though I don't know where it was placed.
The Victoria bomb was the one I was recalling. So I should have said "early
90s". My point remains that there hasn't been any noticeable change due to
Lardy Binman and his followers.
Tim Fenton
"Tim Roll-Pickering" <T.C.Roll-...@qmul.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:79aflcF...@mid.individual.net...
Thanks. That's a new one on me. I knew there were kiosks at some
District/Circle/Met stations, but wasn't aware of the bakery outlet.
Paul Scott
>
> "Mizter T" <mizt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1a86040e-0820-44de...@j20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>> The significant incident was an IRA bomb left in a litter bin on the
>> concourse of Victoria station in 1991 that killed a man and injured 38
>> others. There was also a bomb at London Bridge station in 1992 that
>> injured 29 people, though I don't know where it was placed.
>
> The Victoria bomb was the one I was recalling. So I should have said
> "early 90s". My point remains that there hasn't been any noticeable change
> due to Lardy Binman and his followers.
>
I'd also like to chip in with the fact that there have been bombs placed in
bins elsewhere in the country over the last 30 years or more, it isn't just
a London issue, so the frequency of incidents in London isn't necessarily
the only deciding factor. Down my way the stations with permanently manned
platforms seem to have no bins, most others have the clear bags. The
implication appears to be that the staff of certain large sized or higher
profile stations should be dealing with rubbish as it appears, I also
believe it isn't at the whim of the local TOC, some flavour of security
people decide.
Paul S
Mizter T
> "Mizter T" <mizte...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Sorry Tim, but I think that many bins which reappeared in the 90's
after the IRA/ Irish republican threat dissipated were removed again
after the 2001 terrorist attacks in the US.
(I have a distinct memory of a new albeit short-lived 'innovation' of
cardboard trays being provided for rubbish at some stations - these
were placed on the floor next to walls, the logic presumably being
much the same as the clear plastic bin liners - it'd make it harder to
conceal an explosive device amongst other rubbish.)
Mizter T
On Jun 11, 2:11 pm, "Paul Scott" <notvalidpmsc...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> "Tim Fenton" <timfen...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > "Mizter T" <mizte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> The significant incident was an IRA bomb left in a litter bin on the
> >> concourse of Victoria station in 1991 that killed a man and injured 38
> >> others. There was also a bomb at London Bridge station in 1992 that
> >> injured 29 people, though I don't know where it was placed.
>
> > The Victoria bomb was the one I was recalling. So I should have said
> > "early 90s". My point remains that there hasn't been any noticeable change
> > due to Lardy Binman and his followers.
>
> I'd also like to chip in with the fact that there have been bombs placed in
> bins elsewhere in the country over the last 30 years or more, it isn't just
> a London issue, so the frequency of incidents in London isn't necessarily
> the only deciding factor. Down my way the stations with permanently manned
> platforms seem to have no bins, most others have the clear bags. The
> implication appears to be that the staff of certain large sized or higher
> profile stations should be dealing with rubbish as it appears, I also
> believe it isn't at the whim of the local TOC, some flavour of security
> people decide.
Indeed - sorry, my comments were intentionally London-centric and
looked only at public transport, but I should have flagged up that it
was just a very partial take on events. As you rightly say, bombings
happened all over the country. I was just trying to illustrate that
whilst a few 'big' attacks stick in the mind, I think many others
rather fade from the collective memory.
Also, the 'flavour of security people' who deal with such matters
might possibly be "TRANSEC" (seemingly always capitalised as such) at
the DfT.
1506
That is my recollection. My timescale may be a liitle adrift. But, I
do recall bins coming back as the IRA threat subsided. It is two
years since I last passed thru London, there were not many bins on the
subway at that time.
Tim Fenton
>
> > > The significant incident was an IRA bomb left in a litter bin on the
> > > concourse of Victoria station in 1991 that killed a man and injured 38
> > > others. There was also a bomb at London Bridge station in 1992 that
> > > injured 29 people, though I don't know where it was placed.
>
> > The Victoria bomb was the one I was recalling. So I should have said
> > "early
> > 90s". My point remains that there hasn't been any noticeable change due
> > to
> > Lardy Binman and his followers.
>
> Sorry Tim, but I think that many bins which reappeared in the 90's
> after the IRA/ Irish republican threat dissipated were removed again
> after the 2001 terrorist attacks in the US.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I was working in London from August 2000 to
May 2001 and didn't see any return of litter bins. Can't recall any change
from the 90s when I had to visit the capital on business more or less
regularly.
> (I have a distinct memory of a new albeit short-lived 'innovation' of
> cardboard trays being provided for rubbish at some stations - these
> were placed on the floor next to walls, the logic presumably being
> much the same as the clear plastic bin liners - it'd make it harder to
> conceal an explosive device amongst other rubbish.)
Don't remember those, but of course I couldn't be everywhere ;-)
Also your replies aren't quoting properly. It could of course be my previous
post that does it ...
MIG
It was in what was then the gents toilet on platform 3/4 and is now an
office for railway staff.
When it happened I was in a train that eventually got to Blackheath
tunnel and then reversed to Kidbrooke and chucked us out, from where I
got a bus.
David Hansen
<mizt...@gmail.com> wrote this:-
>Also, the 'flavour of security people' who deal with such matters
>might possibly be "TRANSEC" (seemingly always capitalised as such) at
>the DfT.
Indeed. A group not noted for common sense.
They do not issue instructions but rather "advice". However, those
who receive this "advice" are too busy protecting their backsides to
consider the correctness and appropriateness of the "advice".
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
Dr. Sunil
wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:32:46 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Mizter T
>
> >Also, the 'flavour of security people' who deal with such matters
> >might possibly be "TRANSEC" (seemingly always capitalised as such) at
> >the DfT.
>
> Indeed. A group not noted for common sense.
>
> They do not issue instructions but rather "advice". However, those
> who receive this "advice" are too busy protecting their backsides to
> consider the correctness and appropriateness of the "advice".
>
> --
> David Hansen, Edinburgh
> I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
> http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
Is it just me, or are free newspapers a litter nuisance?
Peter Masson
"Dr. Sunil" <drsuni...@googlemail.com> wrote
>Is it just me, or are free newspapers a litter nuisance?
It's not just you, and it costs LUL and the TOCs a fortune to dispose of
them.
Peter
MIG
> "Dr. Sunil" <drsunil080...@googlemail.com> wrote
In the light of the silly billboards appearing all over the place,
someone should tell the Metro that printing it is littering; leaving
it on the train for someone else to read is recycling. But maybe that
wouldn't help their circulation figures, which depend on maximum
littering.
John B
> > >Is it just me, or are free newspapers a litter nuisance?
>
> > It's not just you, and it costs LUL and the TOCs a fortune to dispose of
> > them.
>
> someone should tell the Metro that printing it is littering; leaving
> it on the train for someone else to read is recycling. But maybe that
> wouldn't help their circulation figures, which depend on maximum
> littering.
Hmm. From my perspective, I find it deeply annoying if I'm heading
into town on a weekday mid-morning that over-enthusiastic LUL cleaners
have binned all the Metros - surely it'd be better to leave them out
for bored passengers, at least until the evening freebies turn up...
(also, IIRC the morning free newspapers involve a hefty cash payment
to LUL, bus operators and TOCs - the afternoon ones aren't given out
on rail premises so don't).
--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org
Arthur Figgis
Presumably this is allowed for in the fee Metro pays to be able to
distribute at stations?
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
James Farrar
a3fc2b...@s1g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
Quite. Leaving your free paper on a train for someeone else to read is a
public service.