floating or double clutching?
chaser
why?
tia
chaser
tscottme
chaser <jpo...@nospamcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns932B883D5554Ajp...@216.166.71.239...
> which do you do?
> why?
>
Float, less work.
nhoutlaw
jponkey wrote:
>which do you do? why?
>
>
>tia chaser
>
both.
--
Posted at http://www.layover.com/
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TOMBERGSTR
timing is off or the situation changes quickly .
TOM
LDMA
NRA
AMERICAN LEGION
U.S. PARATROOPER
Troublemaker
in certain situations I'll use the clutch, but not very often.
--
*
"chaser" <jpo...@nospamcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns932B883D5554Ajp...@216.166.71.239...
Sundance
Thanks..
"Troublemaker" <surfingtr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:W6K6a.261745$Ec4.2...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
tscottme
Sundance <slsb1...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:upK6a.2203$x_5.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> How 'bout sharin' some tips on how to float??
>
> Thanks..
>
If I can butt in, here's what I would offer:
Here's the technique for my truck, while accelerating, put your hand on
the shifter and applying light pressure pushing the shifter toward
neutral, then slowly lift your foot off the "gas" while remembering the
RPM where you pulled it out of gear. The shifter will fall out of gear
into neutral. Let's call this part "floating out of gear". That's the
easy part.
Now here's the harder part, with the shifter in neutral, boost the RPMs
and let them fall and once they *fall* about 300-400 below the RPM where
you took it out of gear, slide the shifter into the next higher gear.
Before you do this you need to be able to reliably boost the RPMs by
that key amount which can be found by noticing the RPM difference
between one gear and the next gear for a steady speed. For example,
drive 50 MPH in one gear and then shift to the next higher gear and then
maintain 50 MPH. Notice the difference in RPMs between the two gears.
In my truck that difference is 300-400 RPM.
You manipulate the RPMs much the same when double-clutching as when
floating gears, the clutch just allows a broader range of RPMs for you
to shift gears. When floating, you have to be a bit more precise with
the RPM difference or you won't be able to put it back in gear.
If you want to use "training wheels" first, you can try this. Float the
gear shift out of gear but use the clutch to put it back in the next
gear. It sounds much more complicated that it is in practice.
--
----
"Anti-Americanism is an emotion masquerading as an analysis, a morality,
an ideal, even an idea about what to do".
Todd Gitlin
Sundance
Seems like you're increasing the RPM on Up-Shifts, then letting RPM fall the
usual 3-400. Is there a timing element there? Why not just let the RPM fall
in Neutral and "float" into gear when the revs. match?
Just trying to learn...I've found myself "floating" several shifts, but by
accident!
"tscottme" <blah...@blah.net> wrote in message
news:lqCdndnw18J...@comcast.com...
George M.
shifting without the clutch.
tscottme
> Thanks for the details!
>
> Seems like you're increasing the RPM on Up-Shifts, then letting RPM
fall the
> usual 3-400. Is there a timing element there? Why not just let the RPM
fall
> in Neutral and "float" into gear when the revs. match?
>
> Just trying to learn...I've found myself "floating" several shifts,
but by
> accident!
>
>
Yes, it is normal to pull it out of gear, increase the RPMs and then
when they fall the desired amount, and then put it in the next gear.
It's all about timing. The new person generally over revs and under
revs which is the problem. If you are quick enough you should be able
to avoid "goosing the throttle" and waiting for it to fall. Some
transmissions fall slowly and some fall much quicker.
I would practice being able to reliably "goose or bump the throttle" up
the few RPMs needed to match.
BTW, most people have more trouble floating the gears when downshifting
than when upshifting.
chaser
news:Xns932B883D5554Ajp...@216.166.71.239:
thank you all for your participation
i personally float except at lights and stop signs.
the reason i asked is, i was told a while ago how much easier it is on a
trans to double-clutch. sorry i can't do it. i was taught to drive a
truck by floating gears.
i never thought i'd be able to describe the process. some here have
done a good job.
holding light pressure towards neutral then easing off the throttle is
the best. the only thing i would add is to wait a split second before
even trying for the next higher gear. usually it will fall right in.
downshifting? over-revving i don't think is so much the problem. from
those unfamiliar with it, that i've watched, most will not be patient
enough for the trans to slow to match the engine. floating out of gear
the same as when up-shifting, then over-revving and holding LIGHT
pressure on the next lower gear, then just before the shifter falls into
the next lower gear, goosing the throttle again. how frustrating this
is to watch! it definatly can only be learned by doing it.
i was curious what you old-timers would say. i've been driving for
nearly 15 years. semi's for only 2.
now can someone please describe to how to back up?! lol
chaser
Wavking
"TOMBERGSTR" <tombe...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030223145723...@mb-cd.aol.com...
> I try to float as much as I can BUT I am ready to hit the clutch if
my
> timing is off or the situation changes quickly .
same here
Can Doo
others can be pretty stiff. I try to save wear & tear on the clutch & my
leg when ever possible.
tscottme
> Sundance <slsb1...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:DjM6a.2246$x_5.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > Thanks for the details!
> >
> > Seems like you're increasing the RPM on Up-Shifts, then letting RPM
> fall the
> > usual 3-400. Is there a timing element there? Why not just let the
RPM
> fall
> > in Neutral and "float" into gear when the revs. match?
> >
> > Just trying to learn...I've found myself "floating" several shifts,
> but by
> > accident!
> >
> >
>
> Yes, it is normal to pull it out of gear, increase the RPMs and then
> when they fall the desired amount, and then put it in the next gear.
Oops. I made a mistake. You may not have to increase RPMs and then let
them fall before changing gears. If your tranny allows RPMs to fall
slow enough you probably won't need to bump the throttle prior to
changing gears. I was confusing the throttle procedure when
double-clutching and the RPM behavior when floating.
Sorry for the confusion.
Sundance
Picked up a Volvo (nice) with the 10 speed Fuller. I was floating like crazy
all of the 10 hour shift! The trans. was so smooth and suited the engine so
well. Even when I tried to d'clutch in low gears it would fall into gear by
itself. No need to increase revs. on upshifts. Also downshifting was easy -
just be careful to "blip" 300-400 as you suggested, with a little pressure
on the lever and it slides right in. I think most people take the revs up
too much and it won't mesh.
Thanks for the encouragement!!!
"tscottme" <blah...@blah.net> wrote in message
news:uv6dnTLbq-Y...@comcast.com...
jamie
through the gears get your timing right and you will do it with you eyes
closed how ever say for instance your climbing a hill be ready all the times
we over here in Australia have some steep climbs so we go back 2 gears at a
time on steeper climbs say we drop to1200 climbing up we pull her out rev to
about 1700 back 2 gears and away you go but what ever you do don't miss a
gear on a climb you'll have to start all over again and possibly burn your
clutch out that's for floating but do what your comfortable. with some
companies over here catch you NOT using the clutch your out the gate what
ever you choose floating or d/clutching your revs have to be spot on. I can
change mine under 1000 mostly about 900 in the bottom box and about 1200 in
the top box but climbing a hill keep them a bit higher about 16-1700 and all
depends on your horse power the more horses the less gear changes.. the less
revs
Jamie...."road train"
"chaser" <jpo...@nospamcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns932B883D5554Ajp...@216.166.71.239...
tscottme
> Just after our discussion yesterday I was called out for city
deliveries.
> Picked up a Volvo (nice) with the 10 speed Fuller. I was floating like
crazy
> all of the 10 hour shift! The trans. was so smooth and suited the
engine so
> well. Even when I tried to d'clutch in low gears it would fall into
gear by
> itself. No need to increase revs. on upshifts. Also downshifting was
easy -
> just be careful to "blip" 300-400 as you suggested, with a little
pressure
> on the lever and it slides right in. I think most people take the revs
up
> too much and it won't mesh.
>
> Thanks for the encouragement!!!
>
>
From my experience and listening to other drivers, most of the trouble
when floating, especially when downshifting is from not reliably
matching the RPMs. For example when attempting to downshift the driver
may over rev and then miss the RPM when they do fall to the right spot.
Then they under rev and miss again. Then when they try again, the road
speed has fallen enough that hitting the RPMs exactly for the initial
attempt is wrong. My first truck had a Rockwell tranny and the revs
dropped pretty fast. The Eaton transmissions I have been in since fall
much slower.
Then there is the switch from a 9 speed to a Super 10 where the air
splitter is used in a very different manner. But that's a story for
another day.
I'm glad it is working out.
>Zeke<
>My first truck had a Rockwell tranny and the revs
> dropped pretty fast. The Eaton transmissions I have been in since fall
> much slower.
>
Just curious... I was under the impression that the revs dropping fast or
slow was a matter of the type of engine I was running. To me a Cummins
engine would drop rpm's fairly fast, while a Cat engine was a bit slower to
drop, and a Detroit Series 60 was even slower to drop.
Is it the engine or the transmission that makes more difference here?
SLW TRK
bibk...@e-mail.ru (>Zeke<)
"tscottme"
>>revs dropped pretty fast. The Eaton
>>transmissions I have been in since fall much
>>slower.
>Just curious... I was under the impression that
>the revs dropping fast or slow was a matter of
>the type of engine I was running. To me a
>Cummins engine would drop rpm's fairly fast,
>while a Cat engine was a bit slower to drop,
>and a Detroit Series 60 was even slower to
>drop. Is it the engine or the transmission that
>makes more difference here?
long as the clutch is engaged, and a Mack has
the slowest fall. (to me)
But, fewer gears means the motor has to fall
farther. What I mean is there will be a bigger
drop (more time) for a five speed than a
thirteen.
--
Nick
tscottme
>Zeke< <bibk...@e-mail.ru> wrote in message
news:YLe7a.12833$Xa4...@fe01.atl2.webusenet.com...
I don't know which controls the RPMs more. All the trucks I have been
in until this last year were Deeeeetroit 60. My current truck has a
Cummins. You're probably right that the engine is what is affecting how
fast the RPMs drop.
Sundance
driving the truck along the road with the clutch engaged. The minute that
you dis-engage the clutch (push the pedal) and step off the throttle, the
road speed is now driving the transmission gears at pretty much the same
speed, since the truck has momentum, which you have not changed yet. The
engine however will drop rpm right away, since no fuel is being applied, and
it has been disconnected from road speed, with the clutch dis-engaged..
Internal friction, compression pressure and other forces will determine the
rate of decline in rpm.
This is what happens when you want to use engine speed for braking, either a
normal engine or a Jake - get the engine rpm a little lower that they are at
that road speed and the engine resisting the transmission speed (driven by
road speed) causes the truck to slow down.
"tscottme" <blah...@blah.net> wrote in message
news:nYudnXhI8uU...@comcast.com...
>Zeke<
> Let's say you're on the throttle and your engine is running at 1500 rpm.
> driving the truck along the road with the clutch engaged. The minute that
> you dis-engage the clutch (push the pedal) and step off the throttle, the
> road speed is now driving the transmission gears at pretty much the same
> speed, since the truck has momentum, which you have not changed yet. The
> engine however will drop rpm right away, since no fuel is being applied,
and
> it has been disconnected from road speed, with the clutch dis-engaged..
> Internal friction, compression pressure and other forces will determine
the
> rate of decline in rpm.
>
> This is what happens when you want to use engine speed for braking, either
a
> normal engine or a Jake - get the engine rpm a little lower that they are
at
> that road speed and the engine resisting the transmission speed (driven by
> road speed) causes the truck to slow down.
>
I understand that. I was just wondering what it is that causes different
manufacturers engines to drop rpm's slower/faster than others? Internal
moving mass?
tom brian
Tom
stubaxel
shaft get worn and that costs a fortune to replace...Im a OO and I
wouldnt advise it..another thing with my jigger one miss can screw the
tailshaft when Im loaded to the max with the triple...I'm an ole timer
and find the "easypedal assist clutch as light as some 4 wheeler so
why float!!!