floating
Shifty
short while later, I single clutched. Just yesterday, on my own, I started
trying to float. I'm happy to say, I was more or less successful.
In school, the official line was that floating was a no-no because it caused
damage and premature wear to the transmission. I find it hard to believe
that floating causes damage when it is done correctly. By trial and error
and accident, I'm occasionally able to float from one gear to the next
without any grind or grumble whatsoever from the transmission. The only
sound is a reassuring click as the stick slides into place. I'm pretty sure
after a bit more practice, I'll get the hang of it. There seems to be less
effort required on the stick than when clutching. And there is certainly
less effort required by not using the clutch leg.
A few things I noticed:
I'm driving a 9-speed and it seems like floating is easier when I shift at
higher RPMs. I'm also able to float at lower RPMs, but the timing between
nudging and easing up on the accelerator and pulling the stick out of gear
is more critical at lower RPMs. Putting the stick into a gear without the
clutch is easy (I previously only single clutched to get it out of gear),
but the tricky part is pulling it out of gear without the clutch. When
everything goes right, it comes out of gear with a bare minimum of effort.
I'm heading out early this morning again on a local run of about 400 miles.
I'm going to try floating exclusively and only use the clutch when starting
off from a dead stop. Wish me luck.
Shifty
tscottme
Hey Shifty, I too was trained that floating was a no-no. But on the way
to Deeeeetroit, I thought I had broken my left foot and learned to float
as a matter of necessity.
Anyway, the key to floating is the difference in RPMs. In my truck with
an Eaton 9-speed, the difference between gears, in high-range, is
350-400 RPM. I also notice that if I try and come out of gear at 1600
RPM or below it's very easy. To do this when learning to float, place
slight pressure toward neutral on the gear shift, and then lift your
foot off the gas, you know the pedal that dispenses diesel. "Breaking
torque" will let the gear shift fall out of gear.
I also notice that once the RPMs climb above 1600, in my truck, it
becomes more difficult to float the gears. Contrary to your experience,
I find it easier to float the gears below the normal shifting RPM than
above that RPM. In fact, when I'm empty, or when I'm in stop and go
traffic, I find I can float from one gear to the next to the next with
almost no time between gears (don't have to wait for RPMs to drop) and
letting one gear only increase my speed a tiny amount.
Anyway, I find that I upshift with my Eaton 9-speed at 1300 RPM in
low-range, upshift at 1600 RPM in high-range. I downshift at 1300, in
high range and 1100 in low-range.
I just stand by the clutch. Even if the RPMs get too high, the clutch
will allow you to shift. I'd recommend you allow yourself a couple of
attempts at floating when your are alone on the road with no stop signs
or stop lights. However when you are in "city conditions" it's one
grind and then your are back to the clutch.
Roger Shoaf
school) my trainer said "Listen, I know what they told you in school, but I
want you to try it like I do it." Once I did that, shifting became like
second nature. I suspect that the reason the schools train you that
floating is bad, is that there is a real good possibility that a real "gear
jammer" will force the issue and break something. The way I learned, was no
more than finger tip pressure is needed.
--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.
tscottme <blah...@blah.net> wrote in message
news:3AB3ADBF...@blah.net...
WebTrollers
caused
> damage and premature wear to the transmission. I find it hard to believe
> that floating causes damage when it is done correctly.
Shifting without the clutch becomes second nature but I suspect in the
beginning there is a little wear and tear. I have been shifting this way
since the ink was wet on my license and I'm not about to change, unless the
truck changes me. By that I mean some transmissions require some clutch
assistance and my advice is to use the method the truck likes best not the
driver. I would also advise against a lazy leg. Don't ride the clutch but if
you are in heavy traffic, keep your foot ready for the clutch. I've seen too
many drivers get lazy in traffic and stall the truck in 5mph panic stop.
Locking up the entire driveline can't be healthy!
I currently drive a 2000 CH Mack with 360,000 kms on 1 clutch adjustment. My
last truck was a 1994 International with 1,100,000 kms on trade in with the
original clutch. All of the miles are within 160 km radius of my home
terminal and slip seating with 2 other drivers. I guess we can dispel the
damage myth with those figures.
SimonJ
when you come off the gas, then let the revs drop and hit the clutch to drop
it back into gear. sort of a cross betwen floating and double clutching.
TOMBERGSTR
>when you come off the gas, then let the revs drop and hit the clutch to drop
>it back into gear. sort of a cross betwen floating and double clutching.
>
You shouldn't need the clutch . It would however , be a prudent endeavor .
TOM
LDMA
NRA
GOA
AMERICAN LEGION
U.S. PARATROOPER
James McVay
when you go for your driving test at the DPS. You must prove to the tester
that you have complete control of the rig while both up-shifting and
down-shifting. Because if you can't find a gear, the rig is considered to
be out of control and you can fail your test for coasting.
James
Michael Cash
stifled a belch and paused to say:
>but the tricky part is pulling it out of gear without the clutch. When
>everything goes right, it comes out of gear with a bare minimum of effort.
>
Maintain slight pressure on the accelerator and it'll come out just
fine. Let off the gas before you try to slide into neutral and it'll
just bind stuff up.
--
Michael Cash
"No, I didn't say I appreciate you getting me into
exhibitionism. I said thanks to you I'm starting to
show."
Darcy Anna Moonpie
Ex-girlfriend
"Wipe that silly grin off your face, Mr. Cash. I didn't
say you were born hung. I said you were born to be hung."
Prof. Ernest T. Bass
Mount Pilot College
Shifty
miles.
> > I'm going to try floating exclusively and only use the clutch when
starting
> > off from a dead stop. Wish me luck.
I didn't make the whole run clutchless. Maybe that goal was too ambitious.
Or maybe it would be more appropriate not to try floating exclusively. Maybe
it would be better to float some and clutch some depending on what was
appropriate for the situation.
> Hey Shifty, I too was trained that floating was a no-no. But on the way
> to Deeeeetroit, I thought I had broken my left foot and learned to float
> as a matter of necessity.
I learned to float by accident. And I think I was, in a way, taught to float
by accident. One of the co-instructors at school suggested that right before
I clutch to make a shift, to put the stick in the proper place (notch) and
put a bit of pressure on it so that when I clutch, the stick would fall into
place. I was never coordinated enough in school to be able to do that. But
after school, when I started driving, I thought about that, and tried it
again, and was able to do it. Occasionally, especially in the lower gears
when the RPMs were high, the stick would fall out of gear and into neutral
before I had a chance to clutch. It was one of those Eureka! moments.
>
> Anyway, the key to floating is the difference in RPMs. In my truck with
> an Eaton 9-speed, the difference between gears, in high-range, is
> 350-400 RPM. I also notice that if I try and come out of gear at 1600
> RPM or below it's very easy. To do this when learning to float, place
> slight pressure toward neutral on the gear shift, and then lift your
> foot off the gas, you know the pedal that dispenses diesel.
[snip]
The diesel pedal? There is an Eaton 9-speed in the old 91 International that
I drive also. The gears are numbered 1 through 9, not Lo through 8 as with
some 9-speeds I've seen. Here are some things I've noticed in the course of
experimentation:
Upshift floating seems to work better for me if I don't lift my foot
completely off the diesel pedal. It seems to work best if I only let up on
it a tad. When the stick falls into neutral, I let up on the pedal a tad
more so the RPMs will drop more, then float into the next gear. When
downshifting, sometimes it works if I only ease up on the diesel pedal a
tad, but most times I have to suddenly release all pressure on the pedal. If
the stick still doesn't come out of gear, I have to bump the pedal a bit,
sometimes I have to do this several times.
I'm finding that each of the gears seem to have a personality of their own.
They have their own separate likes and dislikes and separate
characteristics. By far, the easiest gear to float is from 6th to 7th. I
almost never use the clutch for this shift now. There seems to be no need at
all for the clutch in this shift. The only time I clutch from 6th to 7th is
when I forget and fall back on old habits. The shift from 7th to 8th is
almost as easy, but not quite. For some reason, the shift from 8th to 9th is
a bear. I use the clutch most times for this one. Almost everyone says the
proper time to shift from 8th to 9th is at 55mph. But on my machine, it
seems to shift better at about 58mph or even 60.
Floating from 2nd to 3rd seems pretty easy, at low, mid, or high RPMs. It's
almost as easy as the shift from 6th to 7th, but not quite. I guess in order
of difficulty, it falls between the 6th to 7th and 7th to 8th shifts. 3rd to
4th is a bit easier than 4th to 5th. The 5th to 6th shift, involving the
range changer, is a big bear. I can rarely make this shift clutchless
without re-trying multiple times. The downshift from 6th to 5th seems
equally difficult.
Here's what I do most times when upshifting: I float from 2nd to 3rd, float
from 3rd to 4th, float from 4th to 5th, clutch from 5th to 6th, float from
6th to 7th, float from 7th to 8th, and clutch from 8th to 9th.
A few days ago, I got stuck in construction traffic on the Interstate for an
hour or so. The traffic creeped along at 5 to 15 mph with frequent starts
and stops. I kept a generous following distance between me and the vehicle
in front and got in some great practice at floating up and down in the low
range. So far, I've found downshift floating in the low range to be much
easier than in the high range. Maybe it's because I've had more practice at
it.
I'm getting a little better as I practice more. I feel like I'm more in tune
with the machine when I float. I feel like I'm doing more of what it wants
me to do, rather than trying to impose my will on it. I feel more like I'm
an Indian riding a horse with a halter rather than a Cowboy riding with a
steel bit. Maybe the machine is adjusting itself to me also. I don't know
yet.
Shifty
(a.k.a. Dances with Gears)
Robert Donnelly
synchro. My left foot is very sore. Any harm in floating a synchro?
--
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Shifty
James McVay <jmcv...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rOut6.76136$lj4.2...@news6.giganews.com...
It was the same in my school. Coasting was a big no-no. And it makes sense.
In Louisiana, coasting down a hill is illegal. It's probably the same in
other states. I learned to downshift by clutching and then shifting into
neutral, releasing the clutch then goosing or bumping (mashing suddenly then
releasing) the diesel pedal, and then clutching and shifting into the lower
gear.
I think when you goose it, especially for a beginner, you goose it more than
is actually necessary so that when the RPMs fall to the proper range, the
shift can be made. If you don't goose it enough, there is nothing that can
be done except goose it again or else jam it into gear against it's will.
So, you goose it more than necessary just to be on the safe side.
Now days, when I downshift, instead of goosing it, I apply gentle and
increasing pressure on the pedal until the proper RPMs are reached. That's
the theory. Many times I rev it too high and have to wait for the RPMs to
fall back again. I'm finding that shifting is an inexact science. It's more
of an art than a science, I think. I have a lot of admiration for good
shifters.
Shifty
Roger Shoaf
Shifty <shi...@fakeAddress.net> wrote in message
news:rW4v6.615$X_.4...@news2.atl...
> I'm finding that each of the gears seem to have a personality of their
own.
> They have their own separate likes and dislikes and separate
> characteristics. By far, the easiest gear to float is from 6th to 7th. I
> almost never use the clutch for this shift now. There seems to be no need
at
> all for the clutch in this shift. The only time I clutch from 6th to 7th
is
> when I forget and fall back on old habits. The shift from 7th to 8th is
> almost as easy, but not quite. For some reason, the shift from 8th to 9th
is
> a bear. I use the clutch most times for this one. Almost everyone says the
> proper time to shift from 8th to 9th is at 55mph. But on my machine, it
> seems to shift better at about 58mph or even 60.
Don't think MPH, think RPM.
>
>
> I'm getting a little better as I practice more. I feel like I'm more in
tune
> with the machine when I float. I feel like I'm doing more of what it wants
> me to do, rather than trying to impose my will on it. I feel more like I'm
> an Indian riding a horse with a halter rather than a Cowboy riding with a
> steel bit.
Wrong analogy, think Zen. Become one with the truck. If you were suddenly
struck blind you could smoothly decelerate and get the truck to the sholder.
What is the sound of no gears grinding, (OK this is a streach but I am not
in to theis eastern stuff, but it impresses the hell out of the curious) If
a log fell off your trailer and no one saw it would you hear the noise...
bussard
If a log fell off your trailer and no one saw it would you hear the
noise...
>
>
> --
> Roger Shoaf
> If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.
>
you were in Iowa.
Mike
Roger Shoaf
bussard <bus...@bright.net> wrote in message
news:E9lv6.373$Os.9...@cletus.bright.net...