Inter-state Interstate connections
Nathan Perry
borders:
1. What's the longest border between two states not crossed by an
Interstate?
2. Which border between two states is crossed by the most Interstates?
3. Which states have Interstates connecting them to every other state
they border?
4. Which states have Interstates connecting them to no other state they
border?
Other peculiarities?
For the purposes of these exercises, states which have no signed
Interstates or which border no other states are ineligible. 2dis and
3dis are equally eligible. The District of Columbia counts as a state.
Have fun!
Revive755
> Some roadgeeking exercises regarding Interstate connections across state
> borders:
>
> 1. What's the longest border between two states not crossed by an
> Interstate?
I am going to say the border between Wyoming and Idaho.
> 2. Which border between two states is crossed by the most Interstates?
Illinois has six going into Indiana (90, 94, 80, 74, 70, and 64) and
six going into Missouri (72, 270, 70, 55, 255 and 57).
Pennsylvania has six going into Jersey (76, 676, 276, 95, 78, 80)
> 3. Which states have Interstates connecting them to every other state
> they border?
South Carolina, Texas, North Dakota, Illinois, Indiana, West Virginia,
Ohio, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New
Hampshire, Maine, Minnesota, California, Arizona, Utah, Washington,
Florida
Stephen Dailey
wrote:
> Some roadgeeking exercises regarding Interstate connections across state
> borders:
OK, I'll bite:
> 1. What's the longest border between two states not crossed by an
> Interstate?
Kansas/Nebraska or South Dakota/Kansas - it's hard to tell from looking at
a map which is longer
> 2. Which border between two states is crossed by the most Interstates?
Illinois/Indiana (6 Interstates: I-64, I-70, I-74, I-80, I-90, I-94)
> 3. Which states have Interstates connecting them to every other state
> they border?
One State
Maine (New Hampshire: I-95)
Two States
Florida (Alabama: I-10; Georgia: I-75, I-95)
Rhode Island (Connecticut: I-95; Massachusetts: I-95, I-195, I-295)
South Carolina (Georgia: I-20, I-85; North Carolina: I-26, I-77, I-85,
I-95)
Washington (Idaho: I-90; Oregon: I-5, I-82, I-205)
Three States
California (Arizona: I-8, I-10, I-40; Nevada: I-15, I-80; Oregon: I-5)
Connecticut (Massachusetts: I-84, I-91, I-395; New York: I-84, I-684;
Rhode Island: I-95)
Delaware (Maryland: I-95; New Jersey: I-295; Pennsylvania: I-95)
New Hampshire (Maine: I-95; Massachusetts: I-95, I-93; Vermont (I-89, I-93)
New Jersey (Delaware: I-295; New York: I-87, I-278, I-287; Pennsylvania:
I-76, I-78, I-80, I-95, I-276, I-676)
Four States
Alabama (Florida: I-10; Georgia: I-20, I-59, I-85; Mississippi: I-20,
I-59; Tennessee: I-65)
Arizona (California: I-8, I-10, I-40; Nevada: I-15; New Mexico: I-10,
I-40; Utah: I-15)
Indiana (Illinois: I-64, I-70, I-74, I-80, I-90, I-94; Kentucky: I-64,
I-65, I-275; Michigan: I-65, I-94; Ohio: I-70, I-74, I-80, I-90, I-275;
Pennsylvania: I-76, I-80, I-90; West Virginia: I-70, I-77)
Minnesota (Iowa: I-35; North Dakota: I-94; South Dakota: I-90; Wisconsin:
I-94, I-535)
Ohio (Indiana: I-70, I-74, I-80, I-90, I-275
Texas (Arkansas: I-30; Louisiana: I-10, I-20; New Mexico: I-10, I-40;
Oklahoma: I-35, I-40, I-44)
Five States
Illinois (Indiana: I-64, I-70, I-74, I-80, I-90, I-94; Iowa: I-74, I-80,
I-280; Kentucky: I-24; Missouri: I-57, I-55, I-70, I-270; Wisconsin: I-39,
I-80, I-94)
Maryland (Delaware: I-95; District of Columbia: I-295; Pennsylvania: I-70,
I-81, I-83; Virginia: I-95, I-495;West Virginia: I-68, I-81)
Massachusetts (Connecticut: I-81, I-84, I-395; New Hampshire: I-93, I-95;
New York: I-90; Rhode Island: I-95, I-195, I-295; Vermont: I-91)
Pennsylvania (Delaware: I-95; Maryland: I-70, I-81, I-83; New Jersey:
I-76, I-78, I-80, I-95, I-276, I-676; New York: I-81, I-84, I-86; I-90;
Ohio: I-70, I-76, I-80, I-90; West Virginia: I-70, I-79
Utah (Arizona: I-15; Colorado: I-70; Idaho: I-15, I-84; Nevada: I-80;
Wyoming: I-80)
West Virginia (Kentucky: I-70; Maryland: I-68, I-81; Ohio: I-70, I-77;
Pennsylvania: I-70; Virginia: I-64, I-77)
Eight States
Tennessee (Alabama: I-65; Arkansas: I-40, I-55; Georgia: I-24, I-75;
Kentucky: I-24, I-65; Missisippi: I-55; Missouri: I-155; North Carolina:
I-40; Virginia: I-81)
> 4. Which states have Interstates connecting them to no other state they
> border?
I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking which states have
intrastate Interstates, including 3dis?
> Other peculiarities?
>
> For the purposes of these exercises, states which have no signed
> Interstates or which border no other states are ineligible. 2dis and
> 3dis are equally eligible. The District of Columbia counts as a state.
>
> Have fun!
I really think I have too much time on my hands. :-)
===
Steve
Shoreline, Washington USA
smda...@seanet.com
6 May 2006, 1745 PDT
H.B. Elkins
>
>Some roadgeeking exercises regarding Interstate connections across state
>borders:
>
>1. What's the longest border between two states not crossed by an
>Interstate?
There is no interstate crossing between Kentucky and Missouri. That state border
meanders along the Mississippi River. I don't know the exact length, however.
There is also no interstate connection between Kentucky and Virginia.
--
To reply by e-mail, remove the "restrictor plate"
Chris Bessert
> Nathan Perry <npe...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> 1. What's the longest border between two states not crossed by an
>> Interstate?
>
> Kansas/Nebraska or South Dakota/Kansas - it's hard to tell from
> looking at a map which is longer
Revive755 wrote:
> I am going to say the border between Wyoming and Idaho.
None of the above. I broke out the GIS and found the following:
ID-KY: 180 miles
KS-NE: 365 miles
NE-SD: 435 miles
I just measured the length of the Michigan-Wisconsin border, across
which no Interstates cross, and it clocks in at 585 miles.
Can anyone beat 585 miles?
Later,
Chris
--
Chris Bessert
Bess...@aol.com
http://www.michiganhighways.org
http://www.wisconsinhighways.org
http://www.ontariohighways.org
fro...@mississippi.net
>
> I just measured the length of the Michigan-Wisconsin border, across
> which no Interstates cross, and it clocks in at 585 miles.
>
> Can anyone beat 585 miles?
Subtract Lake Michigan and Lake Superior and recompute...:o)
Froggie | Picayune, MS | http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/
Chris Bessert
>> Chris Bessert wrote:
>>
>> I just measured the length of the Michigan-Wisconsin border, across
>> which no Interstates cross, and it clocks in at 585 miles.
>>
>> Can anyone beat 585 miles?
>
> Subtract Lake Michigan and Lake Superior and recompute...:o)
The OP said "border." The Lake Michigan and Lake Superior portions
are part of the border... :^P
fro...@mississippi.net
>
> > Subtract Lake Michigan and Lake Superior and recompute...:o)
>
> The OP said "border." The Lake Michigan and Lake Superior portions
> are part of the border... :^P
That's the difference between those who follow the letter of the law
and those who follow the spirit...weaselin through technicalities. Yer
bein the former...:oP
Chris Bessert
Sez you.
Nathan Perry
"Stephen Dailey" <smda...@seanet.com> wrote:
> > 4. Which states have Interstates connecting them to no other state they
> > border?
>
> I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking which states have
> intrastate Interstates, including 3dis?
Such a state would have only intrastate Interstates, yes. There isn't
actually such a state, of course, within the limits of this exercise.
Rich Piehl
I'll second that motion.
Do we have a quorum for a vote?
Take care,
Rich
God bless the USA
--
You can say any foolish thing to a dog, and the dog will give you a look
that says, 'Wow, you're right! I never would've thought of that!'
- Dave Barry
Steve Riner
course, it required a little help from chemicals.
Steve Riner
Pueblo West CO
http://www.steve-riner.com/nmhighways/nmhome.htm
http://www.steve-riner.com/mnhighways/mnhome.htm
Magyar
news:F9e7g.860$%K7....@fe02.lga...
> fro...@mississippi.net wrote:
>>>Chris Bessert wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Subtract Lake Michigan and Lake Superior and recompute...:o)
>>>
>>>The OP said "border." The Lake Michigan and Lake Superior portions
>>>are part of the border... :^P
>>
>>
>> That's the difference between those who follow the letter of the law
>> and those who follow the spirit...weaselin through technicalities. Yer
>> bein the former...:oP
>>
>
>
> I'll second that motion.
>
> Do we have a quorum for a vote?
Is it to be a vote against Michigan?
If so, I'm in. :-)
> Take care,
> Rich
>
> God bless the USA
> --
> You can say any foolish thing to a dog, and the dog will give you a look
> that says, 'Wow, you're right! I never would've thought of that!'
>
> - Dave Barry
--
Sandor Gulyas
Graduate Student - Louisiana St. University
Dept. of Geography & Anthropology
"Nobody left to do the crazy things we used to do before
Nobody left to run with anymore"
No One To Run With -- (Performed by) Allman Brothers Band (1995)
Magyar
news:1146974090....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Yep, I've crossed that Idaho-Kentucky border a few times myself. Of
> course, it required a little help from chemicals.
Shoot, you beat me by 40 minutes.
> Steve Riner
> Pueblo West CO
>
> http://www.steve-riner.com/nmhighways/nmhome.htm
> http://www.steve-riner.com/mnhighways/mnhome.htm
The Chief Instigator
>Some roadgeeking exercises regarding Interstate connections across state
>borders:
>3. Which states have Interstates connecting them to every other state
>they border?
Texas fits that description: 10 into Louisiana and New Mexico, 35, 40, and 44
into Oklahoma, and 30 into Arkansas,
>4. Which states have Interstates connecting them to no other state they
>border?
Texas has 27, 37, and 45 in that category.
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (pat...@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2005-06 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Milwaukee 7, Houston 0 (May 6)
NEXT GAME: Sunday, May 7 vs. Milwaukee, 6:05 (Game 3)
Herr Doktor Otto Yamamoto's Peak Oil Boogie!
How about Hawaii?
--
Comrade Mister Yamamoto
http://mryamamoto.50megs.com
The Peak Oil Boogie! The roads site
with the hip, contemporary, lifestyle vibe!
Herr Doktor Otto Yamamoto's Peak Oil Boogie!
> fro...@mississippi.net wrote:
>>> Chris Bessert wrote:
>>>
>>>> Subtract Lake Michigan and Lake Superior and recompute...:o)
>>> The OP said "border." The Lake Michigan and Lake Superior portions
>>> are part of the border... :^P
>>
>> That's the difference between those who follow the letter of the law
>> and those who follow the spirit...weaselin through technicalities. Yer
>> bein the former...:oP
>
> Sez you.
>
> Later,
> Chris
>
Your local government called, they say there are exciting positions for you
in the congress or senate....
SP Cook
H.B. Elkins wrote:
>
> There is also no interstate connection between Kentucky and Virginia.
>
thus be the only eastern states fitting this catagory.
Further, there used to be almost no drivable connection between the two
states. US 460, US 421, and KY/VA 80 are awful. US 23 used to be,
befroe finally being improved (its Corridor B, right?) in the late 90s.
SP Cook
Steve
> fro...@mississippi.net wrote:
>
>>> Chris Bessert wrote:
>>>
>>> I just measured the length of the Michigan-Wisconsin border, across
>>> which no Interstates cross, and it clocks in at 585 miles.
>>>
>>> Can anyone beat 585 miles?
>>
>>
>> Subtract Lake Michigan and Lake Superior and recompute...:o)
>
>
> The OP said "border." The Lake Michigan and Lake Superior portions
> are part of the border... :^P
>
border 1,000 miles...
--
Steve Alpert
MIT - B.S. (Eng.) '05, M.S. (Transp.) '06
http://web.mit.edu/smalpert/www/roads
Steve
> Nathan Perry wrote:
>
>
>>In article <ops85oeu...@office1.hsd1.wa.comcast.net>,
>> "Stephen Dailey" <smda...@seanet.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>4. Which states have Interstates connecting them to no other state they
>>>>border?
>>>
>>>I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking which states have
>>>intrastate Interstates, including 3dis?
>>
>>Such a state would have only intrastate Interstates, yes. There isn't
>>actually such a state, of course, within the limits of this exercise.
>
>
> How about Hawaii?
>
PR's Interstates.
SP Cook
Stephen Dailey wrote:
>
>
> Five States
> West Virginia (Kentucky: I-70; Maryland: I-68, I-81; Ohio: I-70, I-77;
> Pennsylvania: I-70; Virginia: I-64, I-77)
>
connected by I-64. Also you should add I-79 to Pennsylvania, I-81 to
Virginia, and I-470 (among America's most pointless interstates) to
Ohio.
SP Cook
Rich Piehl
> Chris Bessert wrote:
>
>> fro...@mississippi.net wrote:
>>
>>>> Chris Bessert wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I just measured the length of the Michigan-Wisconsin border, across
>>>> which no Interstates cross, and it clocks in at 585 miles.
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone beat 585 miles?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Subtract Lake Michigan and Lake Superior and recompute...:o)
>>
>>
>>
>> The OP said "border." The Lake Michigan and Lake Superior portions
>> are part of the border... :^P
>>
> Yeah, well then how about Hawaii and California? You could make that
> border 1,000 miles...
>
Alaska and anyone - 3 or 4 thousand miles.
fro...@mississippi.net
> Some roadgeeking exercises regarding Interstate connections across state
> borders:
I'm bored this morning, so I'm taking a long look into the questions
you posed. Noting other responses already posted, the following is an
objective look at the questions:
> 1. What's the longest border between two states not crossed by an
> Interstate?
Here's a listing of the borders that qualify (in alphabetical order,
and excluding borders along the Great Lakes):
Arkansas-Louisiana (until I-49 gets built)
Arkansas-Mississippi (until I-69 gets built)
Colorado-Oklahoma
Georgia-North Carolina
Idaho-Nevada
Idaho-Wyoming
Iowa-Wisconsin
Kansas-Nebraska
Kentucky-Missouri
Kentucky-Virginia
Michigan-Wisconsin
Missouri-Nebraska
Montana-South Dakota
Nebraska-South Dakota
Nevada-Oregon
New Mexico-Oklahoma
New York-Vermont
After initial screening, I can narrow it down to these three:
Arkansas-Mississippi (due to significant meandering of the state border
following what was then the flow of the Mississippi River)
Kansas-Nebraska
Nebraska-South Dakota
Unfortunately, I don't have the resources available right now to
determine which one is the longest.
> 2. Which border between two states is crossed by the most Interstates?
The winner: Illinois-Missouri, with 7: 55, 57, 64, 70, 72, 255, and
270. Revive forgot about 64.
> 3. Which states have Interstates connecting them to every other state
> they border?
Since your criteria make only the Lower 48 eligible, there is actually
an even split amongst the Lower 48 between states that have Interstate
connections to every state they border and states that don't. The
states that don't are mentioned above in my answer to #1.
> 4. Which states have Interstates connecting them to no other state they
> border?
The way you worded this question, there is no answer, as every state in
the lower 48 has at least one Interstate that crosses its borders.
Andrew Tompkins
> fro...@mississippi.net wrote:
>>> Chris Bessert wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Subtract Lake Michigan and Lake Superior and recompute...:o)
>>>
>>> The OP said "border." The Lake Michigan and Lake Superior portions
>>> are part of the border... :^P
>>
>>
>> That's the difference between those who follow the letter of the
>> law and those who follow the spirit...weaselin through
>> technicalities. Yer bein the former...:oP
>>
>
>
> I'll second that motion.
>
I agree.
>
> Do we have a quorum for a vote?
>
Who needs a quorum. Just vote. :-)
--
--Andy
--------------------------------------------------
Andrew G. Tompkins
Software Engineer
Beaverton, OR
http://home.comcast.net/~andytom/Highways
--------------------------------------------------
Larry Harvilla
SP, I-470 does have a rather important /raison d'être/: bypassing the
Wheeling Tunnel, which cannot be used by hazmat-hauling trucks or
oversize vehicles.
--
Larry Harvilla
e-mail: roads AT phatpage DOT org
blog-aliciousness: http://www.phatpage.org/news/
also visit: http://www.phatpage.org/highways.html
(in progress)
Revive755
Perhaps I-70 should be relocated over I-470 and the current I-70 should
be signed as a business loop.
SP Cook
Larry Harvilla wrote:
>
> SP, I-470 does have a rather important /raison d'être/: bypassing the
> Wheeling Tunnel, which cannot be used by hazmat-hauling trucks or
> oversize vehicles.
>
Yes. Really its I-70 that serves no purpose. Wheeling is small town.
Building two interstates, no more than 3 miles apart at their greatest
distance of seperation, was the silly part of it. Name another town
that can be completly bypassed with a road only 3 miles away.
I-70 should have followed I-470's route, and I-70 should have never
been built. Today, 470 should be re-signed as 70 and 70 as a BL or US
highway. It doesn't meet I standards anyway.
SP Cook
Nathan Perry
connected by an Interstate that does not cross the border between them.
(By directly connected, I mean there is no intervening area served by
the Interstate.)
Nathan Perry
Rich Piehl <rpiehl5R...@FORNOSPAMcharter.net> wrote:
> Steve wrote:
> > Yeah, well then how about Hawaii and California? You could make that
> > border 1,000 miles...
> >
>
> Alaska and anyone - 3 or 4 thousand miles.
Neither Alaska nor Hawaii is eligible, as neither borders any other
state.
Nathan Perry
Steve <smal...@hackmit.edu> wrote:
> He had ruled out states with no borders, i.e. HI and AK. Also rules out
> PR's Interstates.
If we decide that every US possession counts as a state, and that marine
borders are acceptable, then PR would actually be eligible as it borders
the USVI. EXCEPT, I did also rule out unsigned Interstates....
Chris Bessert
>
> Perhaps I-70 should be relocated over I-470 and the current I-70 should
> be signed as a business loop.
The original intent for Interstate Business Connections was NOT to
sign them along freeways in their entirety. In fact, how many busi-
nesses do you normally find along a freeway, anyway? None. So, it's
not really serving its purpose as a BUSINESS Loop if it has zero
access to any BUSINESSES.
It's a very few states who, IMHO, bastardized the Interstate Busi-
ness Connection over the past decade or two -- California, North
Carolina and South Carolina come to mind -- and started what I
believe is a bit of a problem.
Folks from NC, for example, who are used to seeing full-blown
freeways signed as Business Loops may start believing that ALL
Interstate Business Loops are likely to be high-speed through
freeway routes and when they visit other states who properly
sign their Business Connections, are sorely mistaken. Similarly,
when an out-of-state visitor visits NC and wants to get off the
freeway for gas, food or lodging (or simply to visit the down-
town/CBD of the city bypassed by the Interstate) finds themselves
on yet another freeway bearing little difference from the freeway
they just left!
The source of the whole problem is the unfortunate situation that
the FHWA has tightened their standards for Interstate design over
the years, leaving some states who are bypassing older stretches
of Interstate with a segment of highway formerly signed as an
Interstate but no longer eligible for such designation.
Personally, with so many grandfathered stretches of Interstate
out there, I believe a bypassed stretch of freeway which has been
part of the Interstate system for decades should remain and be
given the appropriate 3dI designation for the situation. This
would have solved the "freeway-as-Business-Loop" problems in
CA, NC and SC.
IMHO, of course...
Herr Doktor Otto Yamamoto's Peak Oil Boogie!
Well, so much for that idea....
Steve
Larry Harvilla
Agreed on just about everything you said, although I would point out
that Wheeling was bigger back in the planning days of the Interstate
system. My guess would be that that's why 70 was planned and built
through the city center via the island and the tunnel. Then, for the
obvious reasons, they had to come back later and bypass the tunnel -- it
was just a giant lack of foresight all around on the part of the WVDOH.
Were they planning and building all this stuff today rather than in the
50s/60s, you're absolutely right, 70 would be routed on the bypass and
the current island/tunnel route would probably be US 250.
H.B. Elkins
>Such a state would have only intrastate Interstates, yes. There isn't
>actually such a state, of course, within the limits of this exercise.
Unless Hawaii counts...
--
To reply by e-mail, remove the "restrictor plate"
H.B. Elkins
>Further, there used to be almost no drivable connection between the two
>states. US 460, US 421, and KY/VA 80 are awful. US 23 used to be,
>befroe finally being improved (its Corridor B, right?) in the late 90s.
Actually, the US 460 connection isn't that bad. It's currently a two-lane, but
in that location it follows a river valley so it isn't that bad.
The US 421 connection crosses a hill (it's not quite a mountain) but it's a much
gentler climb than, say, KY /VA 160.
US 23 was a steep mountain climb but it did have truck lanes, which made the
crossing easier. Once you got to the Virginia side, the road became four lanes
until Kentucky's four-lane opened in the late '90s.
And, of course, one connection (US 25E) has been eliminated completely with the
opening of the Cumberland Gap tunnel. Now 25E goes straight from Kentucky to
Tennessee.
H.B. Elkins
>SP, I-470 does have a rather important /raison d'être/: bypassing the
>Wheeling Tunnel, which cannot be used by hazmat-hauling trucks or
>oversize vehicles.
This discussion reminds me of how much I hate I-70 in Wheeling, particularly the
lane restrictions for the tunnel and requiring traffic merging from westbound US
40/US 250 onto westbound I-70 TO COME TO A COMPLETE FRIGGING STOP BEFORE TRYING
TO ENTER THE INTERSTATE!!!!! (Yes, the caps were intentional...)
H.B. Elkins
I'm not sure what you mean. Kentucky and Virginia are directly connected by
I-64, but there is about 180 miles of West Virginia between them. Is this what
you are referring to?
Revive755
fro...@mississippi.net wrote:
<snip>
> > 2. Which border between two states is crossed by the most Interstates?
>
> The winner: Illinois-Missouri, with 7: 55, 57, 64, 70, 72, 255, and
> 270. Revive forgot about 64.
>
What I-64 in Missouri? There might be an occasional visit from I-40 to
St. Louis, but there ain't no I-64 in Missouri.
SP Cook
H.B. Elkins wrote:
> On Sun, 07 May 2006 22:22:32 GMT, Nathan Perry wrote:
> >
> >One other oddity I found was a situation where two states are directly
> >connected by an Interstate that does not cross the border between them.
> >(By directly connected, I mean there is no intervening area served by
> >the Interstate.)
>
> I'm not sure what you mean. Kentucky and Virginia are directly connected by
> I-64, but there is about 180 miles of West Virginia between them. Is this what
> you are referring to?
>
their common border.
SP Cook
Banjomax
> I belive that Kentucky and Virginia, and Michigan and Wisconsin, would
> thus be the only eastern states fitting this catagory.
>
...
> SP Cook
>
There are no interstates that cross the NY/VT border, though if I-92 had
ever been built...
--
Banjo
Dummerston, VT
fro...@mississippi.net
>
> What I-64 in Missouri? There might be an occasional visit from I-40 to
> St. Louis, but there ain't no I-64 in Missouri.
Yes, I'm aware that most St. Louis area folks refuse to believe in
I-64. But the official logs tell otherwise..:o)
fro...@mississippi.net
>
> Building two interstates, no more than 3 miles apart at their greatest
> distance of seperation, was the silly part of it. Name another town
> that can be completly bypassed with a road only 3 miles away.
Three that one could argue:
- Wilmington, DE
- Macon, GA (I-475 is about 4 miles out).
- Peoria, IL
Froggie | Picayune, MS | http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads
Mapmikey
Perhaps he means that I-95 clips the District of Columbia while
crossing the Potomac and therefore does not "serve" it because one
cannot leave the interstate within D.C., so there is a direct
connection between first/last exits in MD and VA even though 95 does
not cross a VA-MD border.
Mapmikey
Co-curator Virginia Hwys Project
www.vahighways.com
Pete from Boston
Steve Riner wrote:
> Yep, I've crossed that Idaho-Kentucky border a few times myself. Of
> course, it required a little help from chemicals.
In your own private Idaho, were you?
Rich Piehl
Maybe he was having smoked potatoes. Man, those things are hard to keep
lit! ;-)
Marc Fannin
> SP Cook wrote:
>
> > Building two interstates, no more than 3 miles apart at their greatest
> > distance of seperation, was the silly part of it. Name another town
> > that can be completly bypassed with a road only 3 miles away.
>
> Three that one could argue:
>
> - Wilmington, DE
> - Macon, GA (I-475 is about 4 miles out).
> - Peoria, IL
Lake Charles, LA
Lansing, MI (most of the time)
Norfolk et al, VA (most of the time)
Akron, OH
San Diego, CA
Tight Interstate downtown bypasses, same general distance or closer:
Kansas City, KS/MO
Baltimore, MD
Portland, OR
New Orleans, LA
Denver, CO (I-270 plus part of I-76)
(*Not comprehensive lists*)
Both alignments of each enter the respective cities, but, then again,
I-470 itself does enter Wheeling.
________________________________________________________________________
Marc Fannin|musx...@kent.edu or @hotmail.com| http://www.roadfan.com/
Revive755
SP Cook wrote:
> Yes. Really its I-70 that serves no purpose. Wheeling is small town.
> Building two interstates, no more than 3 miles apart at their greatest
> distance of seperation, was the silly part of it. Name another town
> that can be completly bypassed with a road only 3 miles away.
This strays from the bypass qualification, but I-44 and US 40 <mumble>
/I-64 </mumble> are about a mile apart for a few miles west of downtown
St. Louis, which is pointless in a way. I-44 really should have been
put on one of the farther south alternative routes in the city, or both
routes should have been combined into a 16 lane Dan-Ryan style
facility.
Scott M. Kozel
>
> Agreed on just about everything you said, although I would point out
> that Wheeling was bigger back in the planning days of the Interstate
> system. My guess would be that that's why 70 was planned and built
> through the city center via the island and the tunnel. Then, for the
> obvious reasons, they had to come back later and bypass the tunnel -- it
> was just a giant lack of foresight all around on the part of the WVDOH.
Ohio has 6.69 miles of I-470, and West Virginia has 3.94 miles of I-470,
per the FHWA Route Log and Finder List for the Interstate Highway
System, so Ohio was an equal or greater stakeholder in requesting the
10.63 mile long I-470 bypass. It also bypasses Bridgeport OH.
The I-70 / I-470 complex at Wheeling was in the "Yellow Book", official
title _General Location of National System of Interstate Highways_,
September, published 1955, by the U.S. Bureau of Public Roads.
So the decision to build both routes was part of the originally approved
Interstate Highway System.
--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com
Magyar
news:44600BCC...@comcast.net...
> Larry Harvilla <ro...@phatpage.org> wrote:
>>
>> Agreed on just about everything you said, although I would point out
>> that Wheeling was bigger back in the planning days of the Interstate
>> system. My guess would be that that's why 70 was planned and built
>> through the city center via the island and the tunnel. Then, for the
>> obvious reasons, they had to come back later and bypass the tunnel -- it
>> was just a giant lack of foresight all around on the part of the WVDOH.
>
> title _General Location of National System of Interstate Highways_,
> September, published 1955, by the U.S. Bureau of Public Roads.
>
> So the decision to build both routes was part of the originally approved
> Interstate Highway System.
Agreed
http://www.roadfan.com/61mapoh.JPG (ODOT proposed interstate map from 1961,
see I-470 on the far right)
http://www.roadfan.com/sanwhmap.jpg (1962 cutout map of Wheeling with
original proposed routing for I-470 in West Virginia)
> --
> Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
> Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
> Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com
--
Sandor Gulyas
Graduate Student - Louisiana St. University
Dept. of Geography & Anthropology
"Nobody left to do the crazy things we used to do before
Nobody left to run with anymore"
No One To Run With -- (Performed by) Allman Brothers Band (1995)
fro...@mississippi.net
>
> The I-70 / I-470 complex at Wheeling was in the "Yellow Book", official
> title _General Location of National System of Interstate Highways_,
> September, published 1955, by the U.S. Bureau of Public Roads.
http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/yellowbook/wheeling.jpg
Marc Fannin
> Scott M. Kozel wrote:
> >
> > The I-70 / I-470 complex at Wheeling was in the "Yellow Book", official
> > title _General Location of National System of Interstate Highways_,
> > September, published 1955, by the U.S. Bureau of Public Roads.
>
> http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/yellowbook/wheeling.jpg
Until you get rid of your hotlink prevention, you're going to have to
remember not to link directly to graphics but rather to the pages that
link to them, like
http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/yellowbook/ :) (Yes, I know that
typing or copying the URL directly into the address bar works)
Nathan Perry
H.B. Elkins <hbel...@mis.net.restrictorplate> wrote:
> On Sun, 07 May 2006 03:14:16 GMT, Nathan Perry wrote:
>
> >Such a state would have only intrastate Interstates, yes. There isn't
> >actually such a state, of course, within the limits of this exercise.
>
> Unless Hawaii counts...
Nope, it doesn't on account of not bordering any other state.
Nathan Perry
Steve <smal...@hackmit.edu> wrote:
> Nathan Perry wrote:
> > One other oddity I found was a situation where two states are directly
> > connected by an Interstate that does not cross the border between them.
> > (By directly connected, I mean there is no intervening area served by
> > the Interstate.)
> MD and VA, I-95.
That's the one I meant. Any other examples of this? Maybe with a
non-Interstate route?
Michael Gronseth
Andrew Farina wrote:
> On another note, I think I-24 in Tenn. and Georgia is the only 2di
> Interstate that exits and reenters the same state.
Doesn't I-86 do this twice? If it doesn't now, it will when it is
completed. I-86 will cross from PA to NY on its west end, and then
cross over to PA and back to NY near Waverly, NY.
-Michael P. Gronseth
Negaunee, MI
Larry Harvilla
"Will" is the operative word here. I-86 still ends at Exit 52 at
Horseheads, pending completion of the "bypass-in-place" NYSDOT is doing
of the existing NY 17. (Basically, the new I-86 freeway will be built
above what is now the surface-road NY 17, with new service drives being
built at ground level next to the current ground-level NY 17.)
FWIW, something also has to be done with the eight-mile section
southeast of Elmira, between Exits 57 and 59, that still has at-grades.
Once these two projects are done, I-86 can extend at least as far as I-81.
Marc Fannin
> Steve <smal...@hackmit.edu> wrote:
>
> > Nathan Perry wrote:
> >
> > > One other oddity I found was a situation where two states are directly
> > > connected by an Interstate that does not cross the border between them.
> > > (By directly connected, I mean there is no intervening area served by
> > > the Interstate.)
> >
> > MD and VA, I-95.
>
> That's the one I meant. Any other examples of this?
Honorable mention (if I'm understanding correctly) : I-275, KY/OH (west
of Cincinnati). True, I-275 does have an exit in intervening Indiana,
for US-50, but I-275 doesn't actually cross US-50 until both are in
Ohio.
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=39.13,-84.81&z=13&t=M
Mayer Samuels
businesses. It would be nice if more areas actually signed business
routes over the old local lanes of the highway that now serve as the
commercial strip.
I think that another solution to the problem is to just sign the older
freeway with a state highway designation. Most of the larger states
have freeways that are not Interstates.
In fact, Business-80 in the Sacramento, CA area is officially
designated as two separate routes. The E-W portion paralleling W and X
Streets is at interstate standards and is unisgned I-305. It is also
officially designated as US 50 in the California state codes. US 50 is
also signed along the stretch, but the signs for Business-80 are more
prominent.
The N-S portion paralleling 29th and 30th streets has a section that is
below interstate standards. It is officially designated as CA state
route 51, but there are no trailblazers to that effect. (Several years
ago during a major construction project there were construction signs
that noted the road as CA-51, but they were small and easy to miss.)
This section is signed as Business-80 only.
An easy fix to Business-80 would be to remove the Business-80
designation entirely and have the E-W section become US 50 (and
unsigned I-305) and the N-S section be known as CA-51.
I'm not as familiar with NC and SC, but I imagine that those green
interstates could also be replaced with state highway numbers.
Ronnie Dobbs
I-49 will eventually go AR-TX-AR.
Brian Dowd
"Marc Fannin" <musx...@kent.edu> wrote in message
news:1147469377.0...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
When I went through that area a couple years ago, I thought that the
interchange should have been marked something like "IN-1 North TO U.S. 50"
Since if you do not turn onto U.S. 50 at the end of the interchange access
road, you are taken to SR-1.
Marc Fannin
> "Marc Fannin" <musx...@kent.edu> wrote...
>
> > Honorable mention (if I'm understanding correctly) : I-275, KY/OH (west
> > of Cincinnati). True, I-275 does have an exit in intervening Indiana,
> > for US-50, but I-275 doesn't actually cross US-50 until both are in
> > Ohio.
> >
> > http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=39.13,-84.81&z=13&t=M
>
> When I went through that area a couple years ago, I thought that the
> interchange should have been marked something like "IN-1 North TO U.S. 50"
> Since if you do not turn onto U.S. 50 at the end of the interchange access
> road, you are taken to SR-1.
I see your point, that SR-1 should extend to I-275. However, the .pdf
diagram linked from
http://www.in.gov/dot/pubs/manuals/interchanges/275.html shows
unambiguously that the 50/275 connection is considered as a long pair
of ramps, not as SR-1. Interestingly, the diagram also shows the
50/ramp intersection offset a bit from the nearby one, presumedly the
one with SR-1....
Steve
Parkway. What other roads end prematurely, but are essentially
continued to a highway by ramps? (I.e. the ramps themselves are not
part of the route, but easily could be)
--
Steve Alpert
MIT - B.S. (Eng.) '05, M.S. (Transp.) '06
http://web.mit.edu/smalpert/www/roads
Ronnie Dobbs
AR 176 in North Little Rock will fit this description soon once the new
ramps to I-40 are open.