The legacy of the stupid, unnecessary ICC, or blame idiots like Scott Kozel
rsh...@gmail.com
Jump in Md. tolls likely after 2010
Transportation agency hit by falling revenues, ICC's rising cost
you wanted it, you wanted it NOW
now all you have to do is pay for it
Brent Jonas
> http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/commuting/bal-md.cm.authority16n...
>
> Jump in Md. tolls likely after 2010
> Transportation agency hit by falling revenues, ICC's rising cost
>
> you wanted it, you wanted it NOW
>
> now all you have to do is pay for it
I'm trying to understand your absolute opposition to the ICC. Here in
California, new toll freeways have generally done quite well, and
offer speedy alternate's to much-more congested free roads (CA 73 vs.
I-405, or CA 241 and CA 261 vs. CA 55).
Not only will the ICC offer a speedy east-west route in the northern
reaches of the D.C. region, but it'll also relieve local streets that
have no real alternates, other than to access I-495 to the south.
Froggie
> http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/commuting/bal-md.cm.authority16n...
>
> Transportation agency hit by falling revenues, ICC's rising cost
>
> you wanted it, you wanted it NOW
>
> now all you have to do is pay for it
It's funny that he mentioned the "ICC's rising cost" when just last
week, the same reporter/column noted that the ICC's cost stayed flat
over the past year:
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/traffic/2009/11/icc_project_costs_stay_on_cour.html
Froggie | Alexandria, VA | http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/
Larry Sheldon
It always amazes me that people seem to be surprised when pols and their
captive press change their stories depending on what snake oil they are
peddling on any given day.
--
Requiescas in pace o email Two identifying characteristics
of System Administrators:
Ex turpi causa non oritur actio Infallibility, and the ability to
learn from their mistakes.
Eppure si rinfresca
ICBM Targeting Information:
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http://tinyurl.com/7tp8ml
rsh...@gmail.com
firstly it was built at the absolute worst possible time when oil and
const costs were at their highest.
second row was enormously expensive thru some of the richest areas of
Montgomery Co, MD
it will offer a "speedy" e-w route with a very high toll
one of the reasons Kozel cited for building it was to relieve traffic
off the Capital Beltway
But it will not. When traffic is the worst and most congested, the
tolls are the highest
it is my understanding that the Transportation Corridor Agencies may
be doing well now, it has not always been that way.
and when those toll roads were built, costs were nowhere near as high
as when the ICC was built
and the biggest reason I was against it is this
It is a horrible drain on the MdTA and its existing facilites
for instance the 200 section of the I-95/695 ic untangling is pushed
back maybe for many years
continuing the second worst congestion after the Capital Beltway is
I-270 thru Montgomery and Frederick cos
imo that should have been done first since it is a national connecting
interstate, now in all likelihood it may very well be dead
but you have the ICC which will never pay for itself, does next to
nothing to relieve the capital beltway, and forces the MdTA to cut
needed projects and toll increases
yep, I remain vehemently opposed
rsh...@gmail.com
> On Nov 17, 1:00 am, "rshe...@gmail.com" <rshe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/commuting/bal-md.cm.authority16n...
>
> > Jump in Md. tolls likely after 2010
> > Transportation agency hit by falling revenues, ICC's rising cost
>
> > you wanted it, you wanted it NOW
>
> > now all you have to do is pay for it
>
> It's funny that he mentioned the "ICC's rising cost" when just last
> week, the same reporter/column noted that the ICC's cost stayed flat
> over the past year:
>
umm, most everything either stayed flat or dropped in the past year
that does not change one little bit what I said above
and you know full well if they had waited until now to build it, it
would have been a hell of a lot less expensive
not that I would have been any more in favor of it
and it may have actually been able to have reasonable tolls
and it would not have had such a detrimental effect on the MdTA
but nope, idiots like Kozel had to have it NOW
and tell that fucking idiot Larry Sheldon to go fuck himself
as per usual he knows nothing
> http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/traffic/2009/11/icc_project_cost...
zzyzxroad
> Froggie wrote:
> > On Nov 17, 1:00 am, "rshe...@gmail.com" <rshe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/commuting/bal-md.cm.authority16n...
>
> >> Jump in Md. tolls likely after 2010
> >> Transportation agency hit by falling revenues, ICC's rising cost
>
> >> you wanted it, you wanted it NOW
>
> >> now all you have to do is pay for it
>
> > It's funny that he mentioned the "ICC's rising cost" when just last
> > week, the same reporter/column noted that the ICC's cost stayed flat
> > over the past year:
>
>
> It always amazes me that people seem to be surprised when pols and their
> captive press change their stories depending on what snake oil they are
> peddling on any given day.
>
and it always amazes me how fucking stooopid you are
you know nothing about anything except possibly what your right wing
blogs and faux news tells you
you always talk shit about govt, but you have no problem taking
advantage of everything you can and go back for seconds
I feel pretty confident in saying you abuse the system as much as I do
and probably more
larry sheldon and honesty, millions of miles apart
now go fuck yourself
JG
> On Nov 16, 10:00 pm, "rshe...@gmail.com" <rshe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/commuting/bal-md.cm.authority16n...
>
> > Jump in Md. tolls likely after 2010
> > Transportation agency hit by falling revenues, ICC's rising cost
>
> > you wanted it, you wanted it NOW
>
> > now all you have to do is pay for it
>
> I'm trying to understand your absolute opposition to the ICC. Here in
> California, new toll freeways have generally done quite well, and
> offer speedy alternate's to much-more congested free roads (CA 73 vs.
> I-405, or CA 241 and CA 261 vs. CA 55).
On weekends the TCA tollroads looked empty to me. Care to review the
record of toll increases, bond refinancing and shortfalls for CA-73 ??
Brent Jonas
I would expect those toll roads to be empty on the weekends. They
were built, primarily to relieve parallel freeways of congestion,
during peak hours.
I honestly would not want to imagine what I-5 in South OC, between
I-405 and CA 73, would look like during rush hour, if all that extra
traffic that uses CA 73 were suddenly forced onto I-5.
rsh...@gmail.com
and now they are free flowing???
fine, lets presume the tca toll roads ae a raging success
what, exactly does that have to do with the stoooopid, unneeded
ICC????
It will not, by any measure, reduce congestion on the Beltway
it will never pay for itself
as I have described previously, it will seriously impact the MdTA and
its existing facilities
and it was built when const costs were at their highest
had to have it, and had to have it NOW
stooopid fucking idiots like Kozel
cpzilliacus
> http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/commuting/bal-md.cm.authority16n...
>
> Transportation agency hit by falling revenues, ICC's rising cost
>
> you wanted it, you wanted it NOW
I wanted it decades ago (my home is less than 500 meters from the
centerline of Md. 200).
It would have been cheaper to build in 1980's dollars (or 1990's
dollars).
> now all you have to do is pay for it
It will get paid for.
cpzilliacus
[snipped]
> fine, lets presume the tca toll roads ae a raging success
The TCA toll roads in Orange County, Calif. are the wrong analogy.
The much
better analogy is Highway 407 ETR, which runs east-west through the
northern
suburbs of Toronto, Ontario.
> what, exactly does that have to do with the stoooopid, unneeded
> ICC????
Even driven Md. 115 (Muncaster Mill Road)? Md. 28 (Norbeck Road)?
Md. 198 (Spencerville Road)? Randolph Road? Fairland Road?
Briggs Chaney Road?
> It will not, by any measure, reduce congestion on the Beltway
How do you know that?
> it will never pay for itself
In part because the environmental mitigation package was very, very
expensive.
> as I have described previously, it will seriously impact the MdTA and
> its existing facilities
How?
> and it was built when const costs were at their highest
Was built? It is under construction now.
> had to have it, and had to have it NOW
Should have been built decades ago. It would have cost less then.
> stooopid fucking idiots like Kozel
I do not believe that Mr. Kozel had much to do with the ICC getting
built.
JG
And yet the CA-73 bonds had to be merged with 241/261, along with huge
toll increases, and TCA reorgs.
rsh...@gmail.com
> On Nov 17, 1:00 am, "rshe...@gmail.com" <rshe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/commuting/bal-md.cm.authority16n...
>
> > Jump in Md. tolls likely after 2010
> > Transportation agency hit by falling revenues, ICC's rising cost
>
> > you wanted it, you wanted it NOW
>
> I wanted it decades ago (my home is less than 500 meters from the
> centerline of Md. 200).
>
> It would have been cheaper to build in 1980's dollars (or 1990's
> dollars).
>
of course it would have
and it would have been even cheaper to wait
> > now all you have to do is pay for it
>
> It will get paid for.
yep, after decimating the MdTA
and you can kiss I-270, which I think is more important
good bye
Brent Jonas
Can't argue against that. You also can't argue that they are well
used during peak hours. 8,000 vehicles per hour pass thru the CA 73
toll plaza during the peak morning and evening rush. For CA 241, over
6,000 vehicles per house pass thru the toll plaza, just south of CA
91.
I don't expect these newly built toll roads in urban areas to pay for
themselves; instead, I expect them to be well-used during peak hours,
to justify building them in the first place. It's when they're
sitting empty, 24/7, that I then have a problem with them existing in
the first place.
Froggie
>
> and it would have been even cheaper to wait
What's your methodology/reasoning behind this statement?
rsh...@gmail.com
umm, you really have to ask
what was oil $170 a barrel when they built it
what is oil now $65 or so
and you don't think that has a serious effect on what the stupid
unnecessary ICC cost????
what has average construction costs dropped 50% or more
but again you were crowing along with that idiot Kozel that it had to
be built NOW
that it would seriously reduce traffic on the Beltway
in the meantime the Beltway is as bad as ever
MdTA is screwed
and I-270 which is a national connecting interstate is in the same
state it was when it was built in the 1960's in northern Montgomery
and Frederick cos
H.B. Elkins
>
>> On Nov 19, 7:13=A0pm, "rshe...@gmail.com" <rshe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> and it would have been even cheaper to wait
>
>What's your methodology/reasoning behind this statement?
You expect our resident racist to have methodology or reasoning?
--
To reply by e-mail, remove the "restrictor plate"
cpzilliacus
> what was oil $170 a barrel when they built it
>
> what is oil now $65 or so
What makes you think that only motor vehicles using petroleum fuels
will be driving on the ICC?
> and you don't think that has a serious effect on what the stupid
> unnecessary ICC cost????
>
> what has average construction costs dropped 50% or more
>
> but again you were crowing along with that idiot Kozel that it had to
> be built NOW
>
> that it would seriously reduce traffic on the Beltway
>
> in the meantime the Beltway is as bad as ever
How much traffic has been re-routed to the ICC at this point?
> MdTA is screwed
>
> and I-270 which is a national connecting interstate is in the same
> state it was when it was built in the 1960's in northern Montgomery
> and Frederick cos
What is now signed as I-270 dates to 1955 and 1956, when it was
opened to traffic by the Maryland States Roads Commission
as U.S. 240.
Scott M. Kozel
Patrick, when someone is insane and in a mental institution, you don't
speak to them in a soft logical voice, thinking that you will change
their mind or their behavior; you look them in the eye and speak to them
in a loud commanding voice, demanding that they be quiet and listen.
--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Capital Beltway Projects http://www.capital-beltway.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com
zzyzxroad
yeah, so
looks to me like it could easily handle 100,000+ vpd right now
note sarcasm
zzyzxroad
wrote:
righto dum dum
you and idiot kozel are joined at the asshole
zzyzxroad
what part of go fuck yourself do you not understand
what part of the stooopid, unnecessary icc that is going to fuck md
transportation for a very long time do you not understand
all you can do is call me names
but it does nothing to pay off the stooopid, unnecessary icc
and you know it
and it does nothing to make improvements in I-270
whiich even you know is a national connecting interstate
and it does nothing to solve the MdTA's financial problems
now you fucking idiot, what is your solution
first, take your meds
Froggie
First off, oil never got above $147, so you can stop exaggerating.
> what is oil now $65 or so
Close to $80.
> and you don't think that has a serious effect on what the stupid
> unnecessary ICC cost????
It has an effect, but it's much less of an effect than you're
portraying it. In no small part because two very large costs
associated with the ICC have absolutely zero to do with the price of
oil: right-of-way, and the environmental mitigation package.
Furthermore, since you claim they should have waited...what makes you
think oil won't jump back up above $100 once the economy recovers?
> but again you were crowing along with that idiot Kozel that it had to
> be built NOW
Please point out WHERE I was "crowing" that it "had to be built now".
Again, you attribute things to me that are not true, all to fit your
obvious angst against the ICC.
cpzilliacus
Scott, thank you for your comments above.
I only infrequently post to MTR these days, preferring to lurk here -
and
as a result, I am not as familiar with the resident trolls/nutcases/
racists
as I once was.
Maybe a gentle command that they take their medication(s) would
be in order?
Scott M. Kozel
No, you look them in the eye and shout at them in a loud commanding
voice, demanding that they take their medication(s).
Larry G
>
> >http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/commuting/bal-md.cm.authority16n...
>
> > Jump in Md. tolls likely after 2010
> > Transportation agency hit by falling revenues, ICC's rising cost
>
> > you wanted it, you wanted it NOW
>
> > now all you have to do is pay for it
>
> It's funny that he mentioned the "ICC's rising cost" when just last
> week, the same reporter/column noted that the ICC's cost stayed flat
> over the past year:
>
" As the Maryland Transportation Authority's revenues have declined
this year, its costs for construction of the Intercounty Connector
have risen to the point where the project now accounts for 53 percent
of the agency's budget - forcing delays in other road maintenance
projects and making a substantial increase in tolls at some facilities
a near certainty after the 2010 gubernatorial election."
....
then this:
" Some increase in tolls is likely because the authority's heavy
borrowing to finance the ICC and a widening of Interstate 95 might put
it close to its statutory debt limit in about five years."
reading the article - makes it sound like the ICC project has affected
the entire statewide MTA budget.
It would appear than the MTA is in deep doo doo for the next few years
and safe to say.. there are going to be no more ICC's in the near
future..and that probably, this is going to become a lesson learned in
how not to build new toll roads.
rsh...@gmail.com
> > On Nov 19, 8:32 pm, "rshe...@gmail.com" <rshe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > what was oil $170 a barrel when they built it
>
> First off, oil never got above $147, so you can stop exaggerating.
>
> > what is oil now $65 or so
>
> Close to $80.
>
so oil dropped about 60%
what did average const prices drop in the past year
> > and you don't think that has a serious effect on what the stupid
> > unnecessary ICC cost????
>
> It has an effect, but it's much less of an effect than you're
> portraying it. In no small part because two very large costs
> associated with the ICC have absolutely zero to do with the price of
> oil: right-of-way, and the environmental mitigation package.
>
and row is not a heck of a lot cheaper now then it was when they were
buying it
and enviromental is related to const costs is it not?
lower costs effect every item of const
> Furthermore, since you claim they should have waited...what makes you
> think oil won't jump back up above $100 once the economy recovers?
>
actually, I hope it does
but please tell me when does the economy recover
I am waiting
actually right now the price of oil is more effected by the weakness
of the $ as opposed to demand
> > but again you were crowing along with that idiot Kozel that it had to
> > be built NOW
>
> Please point out WHERE I was "crowing" that it "had to be built now".
> Again, you attribute things to me that are not true, all to fit your
> obvious angst against the ICC.
>
it seems to me you were vocal almost as much as Kozel, but if you were
not, I am sorry
but my angst is what the idiot const does to the MdTA, existing
facilites, and upcoming projects
I mentioned the delay in sec 200 of the untangling of the 695-95 ic
north of Balt
but the biggest thing is the reconstruction of I-270 which Kozel
conveniently always fails to mention
as I have mentioned, I-270 is a national connecting interstate
now it appears quite possibly dead
zzyzxroad
and this does what to curtail idiot kozel and the problems created by
the icc
so you live there
great you can pay for it, rots of ruck
and enjoy the never ending traffic on the beltway and I-270
really enjoy
that will cost you in more ways then one
all because of the stooopid, unnecessary ICC
zzyzxroad
>
> No, you look them in the eye and shout at them in a loud commanding
> voice, demanding that they take their medication(s).
>
> --
what part of GO FUCK YOURSELF do you have trouble understanding
now who is doing the shouting
and why don't you specify what meds I am taking, or should be taking
and state your qualifications for doing so
not that you have the guts to put such a statement in black and white
I really want to hear your qualifications
maybe practicing medicine without a license