smaller E-ZPass transponders arrive

[Jimmy]

My friend just signed up for E-ZPass, and received a new, smaller
style of transponder I hadn't heard of.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/12/05/new-generation-of-e-zpass-on-its-way/

It costs toll agencies about half as much as the older style. That's
good, and maybe some day they'll pass the savings on to you.

But it would have been nicer if the new transponders were also
compatible with one or more non-E-ZPass systems, with an ultimate goal
of moving towards a national open standard. Wholesale replacement of
the fleet of transponders doesn't happen very often, and this was
their chance to move in that direction.

Jimmy

[John Levine]

>But it would have been nicer if the new transponders were also
>compatible with one or more non-E-ZPass systems, with an ultimate goal
>of moving towards a national open standard. Wholesale replacement of
>the fleet of transponders doesn't happen very often, and this was
>their chance to move in that direction.

Actually, all E-ZPass transponders are replaced when the batteries
wear out. I think I'm on my third set now.

Although E-ZPass doesn't use an open standard, the Mark IV
transponders are very widely used. It is my impression that the bars
to interoperation are far more political than technical. For example,
I believe that the transponders on the 407 in Toronto and Sunpass in
Florida are compatible with E-ZPass, but they don't have billing
arrangements.

The only toll passes I can think of that are physically incompatible
are the ones on the bridges in Niagara Falls, because they were
designed to use the RFID chip in NEXUS passport cards.



--
Regards,
John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly

[richard]

As a trucker, I loved the damn things.
No more could the DOT cops harass truckers over matching ticket times and
log book records.
"Well driver, your log book shows you were sound asleep when you went
through the toll booth. How did you manage that?"
One company I worked for, I asked to see the billing records e-zpass sent
them.
I wanted to see if it showed precise times. Nope.
Only that a particular unit went through a toll booth on a given day.
So now DOT cops couldn't do squat over the use of the electronic passes.
And I didn't have to sign and send in the tickets.

[Paul D. DeRocco]

I'd like to see the development of an anonymous system, in which the
transponder "contains" a certain amount of money, which you can
replenish at your leisure, and from which is deducted the appropriate
amount as it passes through the toll gate. There would therefore be no
need to record whose transponder is used where, and at what time.

--

Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco
Paul mailto:pder...@ix.netcom.com

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On May 21, 2:37 pm, "Paul D. DeRocco" <pdero...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> I'd like to see the development of an anonymous system, in which the
> transponder "contains" a certain amount of money, which you can
> replenish at your leisure, and from which is deducted the appropriate
> amount as it passes through the toll gate. There would therefore be no
> need to record whose transponder is used where, and at what time.

Some toll facilities give discounts based on past uage or registered
customers, so it is necessary to keep a record. Several toll
facilities based the toll on entrance and exit, so a record needs to
be kept.

[Jimmy]

John Levine <jo...@iecc.com> wrote:
> Although E-ZPass doesn't use an open standard, the Mark IV
> transponders are very widely used.  It is my impression that the bars
> to interoperation are far more political than technical.  For example,
> I believe that the transponders on the 407 in Toronto and Sunpass in
> Florida are compatible with E-ZPass, but they don't have billing
> arrangements.

No, there are several incompatible transponder standards which are
used in various states.

Florida's SunPass was not compatible with the E-ZPass Mark IV system,
since Florida used Allegro and 6B transponders. But they're
supposedly installing readers at the toll booths which can handle 4
types of transponders, with a goal of eventually accepting E-ZPass.
This would provide one-way compatibility, since SunPass transponders
still would not work in E-ZPass states. http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/5810

South Carolina uses Mark IV, but hasn't joined E-ZPass.

The vast majority of systems that aren't already part of E-ZPass use
incompatible transponders: Texas, Oklahoma, California, Washington,
Kansas, Colorado, Minnesota, Georgia, Utah, etc.

What a fiasco. Imagine if you couldn't use your credit cards when you
went on vacation because other states used a different format of
magstripe, or if you were stuck using pay phones because your cell
phone didn't work.

Supposedly Congress passed a funding bill which requires
interoperability by 2016. I'll believe it when I see it.

Jimmy

[Jimmy]

richard <nore...@example.com> wrote:
> As a trucker, I loved the damn things.
> No more could the DOT cops harass truckers over matching ticket times and
> log book records.
> "Well driver, your log book shows you were sound asleep when you went
> through the toll booth. How did you manage that?"
> One company I worked for, I asked to see the billing records e-zpass sent
> them.
> I wanted to see if it showed precise times. Nope.
> Only that a particular unit went through a toll booth on a given day.

My E-ZPass statement shows entry and exit times to the minute.

Jimmy

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <7ed59603-74af-43f6...@a8g2000yqp.googlegroups.com>,

<hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:

>Some toll facilities give discounts based on past uage or registered
>customers, so it is necessary to keep a record. Several toll
>facilities based the toll on entrance and exit, so a record needs to
>be kept.

And Massachusetts gives a tax deduction.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

[Andrew M. Saucci, Jr.]

My EZ-Pass statement also shows the time I pass under the
transponder to the minute. Besides that, even when the information is not
printed on the statement, that does not mean that the information does not
exist in a computer somewhere, subject to subpoena. The Port Authority, for
example, has peak/off-peak differentials. To charge correctly, they have to
know the exact time of passage.

"Jimmy" <JimmyG...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:7b4cdd8a-d1f1-49e6...@s18g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...

[Andrew M. Saucci, Jr.]

Governments and toll authorities really have no interest in
interoperability-- quite the opposite. The relatively small number of
"foreigners," who don't vote in out of town jusisdictions anyway, can simply
be forced to pay cash or be mailed bills at the higher cash rate by cashless
toll plazas. The toll authorities are mainly concerned with regular
commuters and possibly others who vote nearby. If they can get 75-80% of
commuters to accept the system with discounts, they don't give a hoot about
the rest who might pass through their toll plazas only occasionally.

"Jimmy" <JimmyG...@mailinator.com> wrote in message

news:bd2774bd-693c-45b9...@h13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <519c14e4$0$25637$607e...@cv.net>,

Andrew M. Saucci, Jr. <spam...@saucci.local> wrote:
> Governments and toll authorities really have no interest in
>interoperability-- quite the opposite. The relatively small number of
>"foreigners," who don't vote in out of town jusisdictions anyway, can simply
>be forced to pay cash or be mailed bills at the higher cash rate by cashless
>toll plazas. The toll authorities are mainly concerned with regular
>commuters and possibly others who vote nearby. If they can get 75-80% of
>commuters to accept the system with discounts, they don't give a hoot about
>the rest who might pass through their toll plazas only occasionally.

And frankly, in most of the places that aren't part of the E-ZPass
IAG, the value of tolls that are non-collectable because the driver
is from "too far away" is also too small to bother with.

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On May 21, 8:39 pm, "Andrew M. Saucci, Jr." <spam-o...@saucci.local>
wrote:

>         My EZ-Pass statement also shows the time I pass under the
> transponder to the minute. Besides that, even when the information is not
> printed on the statement, that does not mean that the information does not
> exist in a computer somewhere, subject to subpoena.

Laws regarding subpoena vary from state to state. Some states allow
it, such as in a divorce case, other states do not.

Presumably if it was protected information (like Census data is), more
people might be inclined to sign up. Some people refuse to use it due
to privacy concerns.

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On May 21, 8:45 pm, "Andrew M. Saucci, Jr." <spam-o...@saucci.local>
wrote:

>           Governments and toll authorities really have no interest in
> interoperability-- quite the opposite. The relatively small number of
> "foreigners," who don't vote in out of town jusisdictions anyway, can simply
> be forced to pay cash or be mailed bills at the higher cash rate by cashless
> toll plazas. The toll authorities are mainly concerned with regular
> commuters and possibly others who vote nearby. If they can get 75-80% of
> commuters to accept the system with discounts, they don't give a hoot about
> the rest who might pass through their toll plazas only occasionally.

It might be a legal obligation. That is, the facilities might be
required by law to use the lowest bidder and forbidden to pay more to
get a nationally compatible system. Plus, as you said, politicians in
California probably don't care if motorists from EZ Pass territory can
conveniently use their bridges.

Of course, it would be interesting to send an inquiry to the various
incompatible facilities and ask them why they chose to go with an
incompatible. My guess is that they'll respond--if they bother to
respond--with an evasive non-answer.

[John Levine]

>I'd like to see the development of an anonymous system, in which the
>transponder "contains" a certain amount of money, which you can
>replenish at your leisure, and from which is deducted the appropriate
>amount as it passes through the toll gate. There would therefore be no
>need to record whose transponder is used where, and at what time.

Like this, perhaps:

http://www.niagarafallsbridges.com/ExpressPass.php3

The Niagara Falls bridges have both the most anonymous and least
anonymous toll passes I've ever seen. The Express pass is a bearer
instrument -- you buy it and reload it for cash at a toll booth, and
if you lose it and don't have a receipt with the pass number on it,
tough, it's gone with the money on it.

The NEXUS pass works the same way except that it's tied to your NEXUS
card, which is a passport card issued only after by a personal
interview with both US and Canadian customs officers. You can reload
it with cash at a booth next to one of the bridges, but they already
know who you are.

Note that since all of these bridges are across an international
border, the whole idea of anonymous anything doesn't really apply
although I don't think they have any way to tie the Express pass usage
to the Canadian customs inspection, which is at the other end of the
bridge.

[richard]

This may be true for a personal accont.
But on the record I saw, at that time, exact times were NOT shown.

[Chairman Obama]

Why don't the eastern states update their technology to a passive RFID
system? That is what Pikepass uses.