It's official - La. has a new state highway shield
geowes...@yahoo.com
public information officer:
-----
Dear Mr. (name withheld):
All of the original green and white state route marker signs will be
replaced by the new black and white signs over time. Green ink is
much more difficult to use than black ink, which results in higher
fabrication costs. Although there is no written DOTD policy on the
color of state route markers, the Federal Highway Administration's
Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices encourages states to adopt a
uniform state marker containing black numerals on a white area
surrounded by a black background.
Sincerely,
Amber Hebert
Public Information Officer
Department of Transportation and Development
225-379-1266
-----
So it is definitely official. The black on white LA signs are the new
'official' markers and the state will phase out the green and white
shields.
Please explain why we have been using green ink on the state highway
shield since 1960 if it is more expensive to use. In any case, if
this is the stated reason, then I guess I will grudgingly concede
their case. Spending the highway money on actual highways, as opposed
to highway signage, is a worthy enough goal. Also this places the
state in line with the FHWA standard.
Darkangel de la Louisiane
I personally consider this a sad day.
Steve Riner
Now to deal with all those other states who refuse to use pure black
on white --- SD, CA, SC (the newest violator), MN, VT, WY...
(others?). Is it really a FHWA standard or just a recommendation?
Spot on a square for all!
Steve Riner
Pueblo West CO
Explore New Mexico and Minnesota highways: http://www.steve-riner.com
US 71
"Darkangel de la Louisiane" <hell...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>
> I personally consider this a sad day.
Guess I'll need to do a roadtrip and get some fresh pics of the greenies
while I can.
So, will the new shields be black with white numbers ?
geowes...@yahoo.com
> "Darkangel de la Louisiane" <helli...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>
>
> > I personally consider this a sad day.
>
The green LA shield was the one cool thing the DOTD produced. I took
a lot of pride in it, personally.
It separated us from all the other states. Now no more.
> Guess I'll need to do a roadtrip and get some fresh pics of the greenies
> while I can.
>
> So, will the new shields be black with white numbers ?
They appear just like the current shield in design, but the colors are
different.
The state outline is white on a black square background with black
lettering - same as Arkansas, Alabama, etc.
The numbers in all the ones I have seen are sloppily placed and look
quite crude. Then again, this can be said
for some of the green signs.
US 71
<geowes...@yahoo.com> wrote
They appear just like the current shield in design, but the colors are
different.
The state outline is white on a black square background with black
lettering - same as Arkansas, Alabama, etc.
Like this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/us_71/2284442813/in/set-72157603909852808/ ?
I hope Kansas doesn't follow suit.
Darkangel de la Louisiane
I would have preferred they used a different design, like the fleur-de-
lis mockup I posted on my blog. If they're going to change it, be
radical instead of being Alabama. Yecch.
-----
...Now with 59% more ranting and half the calories!
http://hellion0.blogspot.com
Richie Kennedy
> Now to deal with all those other states who refuse to use pure black
> on white --- SD, CA, SC (the newest violator), MN, VT, WY...
> (others?).
The state just to your east.... Kansas.
I can check with the KDOT Public Info office, but I doubt they are
seriously looking into replacing the Kansas Highway Marker.
elaich
79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com:
> So it is definitely official. The black on white LA signs are the new
> 'official' markers and the state will phase out the green and white
> shields.
Isn't it a hell of a lot more expensive to replace perfectly good signs
that are already paid for, then to put up new ones?
Darkangel de la Louisiane
> geowestfie...@yahoo.com wrote in news:e8738f87-23fa-48cb-9555-936e16d26ba9@
I think what it means is that when they need to replace the signs due
to theft, target practice, et cetera, then they'll be putting up the
newer ones.
At least, I hope that's their idea. It would be pointless to cite
fabrication costs for changing the sign, then go out and change the
brand new signs as well as the ones full of buckshot.
-----
"Don't mistake lack of talent for genius." - Peter Steele
http://hellion0.blogspot.com
Cameron Kaiser
>Now to deal with all those other states who refuse to use pure black
>on white --- SD, CA, SC (the newest violator), MN, VT, WY...
>(others?). Is it really a FHWA standard or just a recommendation?
>Spot on a square for all!
And death to the California US highway cutouts! Plus, miner's spades
should be square!
--
Cameron Kaiser * cka...@floodgap.com * posting with a Commodore 128
personal page: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/
** Computer Workshops: games, productivity software and more for C64/128! **
** http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/ **
The Chief Instigator
No need to worry about Texas following suit, either, as they assigned the
state outline to the FM (and RM) road signs a few decades ago...
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (pat...@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.io.com/~patrick/aeros.php (TCI's 2008-09 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: Rockford 5, Houston 2 (April 25)
NEXT GAME: The 2008-09 season opener in early October
argatla...@yahoo.com.mx
> The state just to your east.... Kansas.
>
> I can check with the KDOT Public Info office, but I doubt they are
> seriously looking into replacing the Kansas Highway Marker.
I don't think it will ever happen. Unlike the case with Louisiana,
where the green background was presumably green process ink applied to
white retroreflective sheeting, Kansas shields have the sunburst picked
out by black ink applied directly to retroreflective yellow sheeting.
Black ink does not fade and since the sheeting itself is pigmented, it
fades at a much slower rate than green ink. There would therefore be no
cost advantage to changing the Kansas shield design. Moreover, that
would entail abandoning a tradition of more than 80 years since the
Kansas sunburst was used as the example for state route shields in the
1927 AASHO signing manual.
BTW, in response to other posts upthread, Louisiana was not unique in
having a green shield background. South Dakota uses green background
also and specifies green borders on tabs used with state route shields.
Yakra
> And death to the California US highway cutouts! Plus, miner's spades
> should be square!
Hey now - not square, just black-on-white-on-black.
Unless you just mean from SQUARESVILLE like the MUTCD says, daddy-o.
Ron's Inspector's Inspector
<geowes...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e8738f87-23fa-48cb...@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
> I quote from the text of a e-mail response I received from a LaDOTD
> public information officer:
>
> Please explain why we have been using green ink on the state highway
> shield since 1960 if it is more expensive to use. In any case, if
> this is the stated reason, then I guess I will grudgingly concede
> their case. Spending the highway money on actual highways, as opposed
> to highway signage, is a worthy enough goal. Also this places the
> state in line with the FHWA standard.
I would hope that you didn't send such an arrogant statement to a spokesman.
Questions like that are more appropriately directed to your elected
representative. If someone discovers how to save you five bucks a week, you
don't ask why they didn't figure it out last week, you just say thank you.
geowes...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> <geowestfie...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
That is my reflective commentary alone, I only asked the DOTD people
why the signs had changed.
geowes...@yahoo.com
wrote:
Here is the full text of my inquiry:
To whom it may concern:
Has there recently been a change in the design of the LA state highway
shield? I have noticed different type shields on the state roads
around my neighborhood lately. They are identical to the regular
green shield except that they are white on black. I have been
confused by them at times since they appear very different from the
usual shield.
If there has been a change does the DOTD plan to replace all LA
shields in the state, and how long would that take?
Thank you,
(Name withheld)
--
I already know I'm a goddamned no-good loser and reject, thank you,
but if you lived here you too would be cynical with regards to how the
La. state gov't spends its money. I'd rather my tax dollars be spent
on decent highway signage (which everyone can use) than on the copious
subsidies we are willing to generously provide to big businesses
(ThyssenKrupp, Union Tank Car, etc.) and the underclass.
Cameron Kaiser
>>And death to the California US highway cutouts! Plus, miner's spades
>>should be square!
>Hey now - not square, just black-on-white-on-black.
>Unless you just mean from SQUARESVILLE like the MUTCD says, daddy-o.
Totally. California should look like an upside down Oregon shield. IT'S
THE WAY IT'S DONE.
Scott Nazelrod
somehow triggered by Oklahoma's switch in 2006. It seemed like nothing
new had been introduced for ages before that, and then OK debuted the
meat cleaver, and within 2 years SC and now LA have followed suit...
The meat cleaver was pretty roundly criticized here on MTR when it was
introduced, but looking at the new LA shield, it shows that the new
shield designs could have been worse. And I'm sure that LA could do
even worse than a black-and-white state outline, so...
Ron's Inspector's Inspector
"elaich" <x@y.z> wrote in message news:6ajthsF...@mid.individual.net...
Not when you have a metric buttload of expiring Federal grant money.
Froggie
>
> I already know I'm a goddamned no-good loser and reject, thank you,
> but if you lived here you too would be cynical with regards to how the
> La. state gov't spends its money. I'd rather my tax dollars be spent
> on decent highway signage (which everyone can use) than on the copious
> subsidies we are willing to generously provide to big businesses
Fixing some of the abysmal pavement conditions might be nice too. It
only took DOTD a gazillion years (and post-Katrina money) to finally
fix I-10's pavement through Slidell...
Froggie | Picayune, MS | http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/
Froggie
> on white --- SD, CA, SC (the newest violator), MN, VT, WY...
> (others?). Is it really a FHWA standard or just a recommendation?
> Spot on a square for all!
My read on it is that, unless there's something specifically in
writing from FHWA (and perhaps Mr. Winkler knows something here), that
LaDOTD's response is their interpretation of the Alabama route shield
used as an EXAMPLE in the MUTCD.
US 71
"Froggie" <fro...@mississippi.net> wrote
Fixing some of the abysmal pavement conditions might be nice too. It
only took DOTD a gazillion years (and post-Katrina money) to finally
fix I-10's pavement through Slidell...
But if Federal funds are used, they are probably earmarked for signage only,
not unlike the new Clearview BGS's on I-40 in Arkansas. If it's state funds,
that's a whole different kettle o' fish.
Premier Bush
We're getting Clearview around here. Even on the OTA maintained roads. I'm
getting more used to them, but I still don't like them.
US 71
"Premier Bush" <watuzi...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> We're getting Clearview around here. Even on the OTA maintained roads.
> I'm getting more used to them, but I still don't like them.
>
Arkansas has slowed way down on their upgrades to Clearview. Last I saw, the
sign truck had just started Russellville. That's been a month ago, though so
maybe further research is warranted.
Andrew Tompkins
The proposed MUTCD marks it as a guidance (or highly recommended) item,
not a standard (or required) item.
--
--Andy
Monte Castleman
on white --- SD, CA, SC (the newest violator), MN, VT, WY...
(others?). Is it really a FHWA standard or just a recommendation?
Spot on a square for all!
According to an email I got some years ago some of the maintenance
department at Mn/DOT would like to start by eliminating the gold on the
highway signs in favor of white. Mn/DOT has never found a yellow dye that
doesn't fade badly, seemingly a universal problem with printing, so after a
few years in the elements the signs are manilla, blue and white. The blue
fades somewhat too but not as badly. Since green is blue+yellow I can see
where LA is coming from.
Ironically, I wonder if the recommended circle design was derived from
Minnesota's marker at the time. Minnesota's original marker was black
letters in a gold star in a circle, and highway commissioner Babcock was
involved with national roads advocacy orginizations at the time.
sgu...@gmail.com
wrote:
Well, as an (pre-Katrina) immigrant to Louisiana, I've always had
trouble spoting those green on white LA highway signs. Their
visability hides in the background for me. Where as the black & white
signage (just use US highway signage for example) has always stood out
for me.
I sent a comment to "Darkangel's" Louisiana highway blog a month or
two back about those B&W LA highway shields poping up in the northern
suburbs of Baton Rouge. After seeing that those B&Ws were widespread
and not some contractor error, I noted it and moved on.
As for signage and road quality. LADOTD found some money to replace
all the BGS along I-110 over the last year. Though I don't like the
fact they left only one through traffic overhead BGS along I-110 NB
and none on SB I-110. And the double lined left exit tabs, in the
downtown BR section, are redundent and a waste of sheet metal IMO.
And plenty of the roads need fixing. From US 61 from Scottlandville
through Alsen, I-110 SB near Downtown BR, and the city streets near
LSU.
And don't get me started on Traffic lights (though that is a local
issue, not a state issue as I've grown to understand it)
Anything else (besides the BR bypass & the website)?
Sandor G
M.A. LSU Geography (August '08)
B.A. OSU Geography (2002)
V.P. Baton Rouge Blues Society
www.teddysjukejoint.com
www.roadfan.com (my part is in name only nowadays)
argatla...@yahoo.com.mx
> Anything else (besides the BR bypass & the website)?
I hate the way Louisiana DOTD does its signing plans. All you get are
10-20 sign layout sheets, if that many, and you are lucky if the sign
sketches are pattern-accurate. I wish the signing plans were done more
as in AZ, MN, TX, and AR--sign layout sheets at large scale with
pattern-accurate sign design and sign elevation sheets, with just 1-2
large signs or 3-4 smaller signs on each of the sign design sheets.
Froggie
>
> So it is definitely official. The black on white LA signs are the new
> 'official' markers and the state will phase out the green and white
> shields.
Took a swing around parts of eastern St. Tammany Parish this morning
while running errands in Slidell. Scoped out Slidell, Lacombe, and
Pearl River. A few of the new black-on-white shields are now posted
on LA 434, between I-12 and LA 36...this might be in part because
LaDOTD recently repaved LA 434 from just north of I-12 up to LA 36 and
replaced the shields in the process, including the reassurance shields
on each side of I-12. Oddly, none of the trailblazer shields for LA
434 at either LA 36 or the I-12 ramps had the new shields....aside
from those shields on LA 434 itself (and none south of I-12 except the
above-mentioned reassurance), the only other one I saw was a JCT LA
434 shield on westbound LA 36.
No new black-on-white shields in Slidell or Pearl River. At least as
of yet.
John David Galt
> Now to deal with all those other states who refuse to use pure black
> on white --- SD, CA, SC (the newest violator), MN, VT, WY...
> (others?). Is it really a FHWA standard or just a recommendation?
> Spot on a square for all!
As far as I'm concerned, FHWA should mandate exactly the opposite rule:
No state or local highway shield may be the same general shape or colors
as any existing regulatory or warning sign, because it makes it too
likely for one to be mistaken for the other. So no more black-on-white
shields unless some other color is added (as CO and AZ), and especially
no rectangular white or warning-yellow backgrounds (IL, IN, WY).
I'd also like to see those of neighboring states required to be
different. It's annoying not to be able to tell when you've crossed the
IL/IN border.
This also goes for street signs -- neighboring cities/counties should
always use unique colors (and thus the paragraph in the standard that
says they all "should be" green needs to go away -- or be rewritten to
distinguish the overhead signs that hang from traffic-signal arms from
the real street signs).
Laurence Sheldon
> I'd also like to see those of neighboring states required to be
> different. It's annoying not to be able to tell when you've crossed the
> IL/IN border.
When I was a wee lad, the shields on the Federal system signs had the
state name. I miss that.
--
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of System Administrators:
Ex turpi causa non oritur actio Infallibility, and the ability to
learn from their mistakes.
Eppure si rinfresca
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Laurence Sheldon
> This also goes for street signs -- neighboring cities/counties should
> always use unique colors (and thus the paragraph in the standard that
> says they all "should be" green needs to go away -- or be rewritten to
> distinguish the overhead signs that hang from traffic-signal arms from
> the real street signs).
I wish the important criterion for colors and contrasts was "visibility
under all likely conditions". Having to remember which color street
signs mean OK for trucks is poor. White on pastel colors is the pits.
Reflective pastel on reflective white is probable the worst.