OT: but related - Swiss menu translation
randee
February, I have been trying to learn some tourist German and Italian.
For a start I am attempting to translate the restaurant menus of the
hotels we are considering using.
However the menus of the Swiss restaurants don't quite match the menus
of the German restaurants in the US.
Can anyone provide a better English equivalent of the following menu
items:
Buendnerfleisch - after resorting to the 'Sprach Brockhaus', it appears
this means 'meat in the Grabuenden style', but what is this exactly? Is
this the air dried beef about which I have heard?
Steirischer Backhendlsalat - this appears to be some sort of salad in
the Steyrian style, but what is 'Backhendl'?
Gerstensuppe - Barley soup?
Jagerpfandl - some sort of pan fried game??
Pfirsich mit Granta - Peaches with ?
Kernoel - is this the cur of beef known as brisket?
More later I'm afraid.........
--
wf.
Wayne Flowers
Randee Greenwald
ran...@zianet.com
Hanspeter 'Happl' Oberlin
>In preparation for our rail tour of Switzerland/Austira/Italy in
>February, I have been trying to learn some tourist German and Italian.
That sounds great! I hope the wheater will be better than
today in Zurich (all day fog) and that the alpes will be
in snow.
What have you planned in Switzerland?
>Can anyone provide a better English equivalent of the following menu
>items:
Let's give it a try...
>Buendnerfleisch - after resorting to the 'Sprach Brockhaus', it appears
>this means 'meat in the Grabuenden style', but what is this exactly? Is
>this the air dried beef about which I have heard?
Exactly.
<http://www.buendnerfleisch.org/englisch/hauptframe_3-e.htm>
>Steirischer Backhendlsalat - this appears to be some sort of salad in
>the Steyrian style, but what is 'Backhendl'?
Back = gebacken --> fried
Hendl--> chicken
>Gerstensuppe - Barley soup?
Yes.
<http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/People/mjw/recipes/soup/barley-soup.html>
>Jagerpfandl - some sort of pan fried game??
Jager = Jäger --> huntsman
Pfandl = Pfanne --> pan
Jes, normaly game (deer, stag or chamois) with mushrooms and
spaetzle.
<http://www.eeecooks.com/recipes/2001/11/28/spaetzle.html>
>Pfirsich mit Granta - Peaches with ?
I don't know Granta.
>Kernoel - is this the cur of beef known as brisket?
No, that's a sort of oil made of pips oder stones
(e.g. of pumpkins).
--
Gruesse aus der Schweiz
Salutations en provenance de Suisse
Saluti dalla Svizzera
Greetings from Switzerland
Happl
Dik T. Winter
> Buendnerfleisch - after resorting to the 'Sprach Brockhaus', it appears
> this means 'meat in the Grabuenden style', but what is this exactly? Is
> this the air dried beef about which I have heard?
Yup, see:
<http://www.swissconnection.com/sc101101/product.asp?dept_id=107&pf_id=170224>
(there is even a www.buendnerfleisch.org, but in my browsers it is not doing
much).
> Steirischer Backhendlsalat - this appears to be some sort of salad in
> the Steyrian style, but what is 'Backhendl'?
Apparently something like chicken, see:
<http://www.garnhofalm.com/spezial.htm>.
> Gerstensuppe - Barley soup?
Yup, see: <http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/People/mjw/recipes/soup/barley-soup.html>.
> Jagerpfandl - some sort of pan fried game??
No, see: <http://www.strebersdorferhof.at/essentrinken.htm> for an Austrian
variant: "feines Ragout vom Weinviertler Rehbock serviert mit Bandnudeln
und Preiselbeeren", although I think the "Rehbock" can be replaced by
other game.
> Pfirsich mit Granta - Peaches with ?
Ah, you have been looking at <http://www.hirschen-samedan.ch/speisen.htm>,
is this an advertisement in disguise ;-)? You forget the "Hirschfilet mit
Rotkraut und Spaetzle" before this. But I have no idea what "Granta" is.
> Kernoel - is this the cur of beef known as brisket?
More like pumpkinseed oil. See: <http://www.pumpkinseedoil.cc/> and
compare with <http://www.kernoel.cc/>.
Google is your friend.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
tobias b köhler
> Buendnerfleisch - after resorting to the 'Sprach Brockhaus', it appears
> this means 'meat in the Grabuenden style', but what is this exactly? Is
> this the air dried beef about which I have heard?
See here:
http://www.buendnerfleisch.org/englisch/presseinformation-e.htm
(a demonstration of "Useless Java")
> Steirischer Backhendlsalat - this appears to be some sort of salad in
> the Steyrian style, but what is 'Backhendl'?
Fried chicken. Usually combined with various salads and Kernöl - see below.
> Gerstensuppe - Barley soup?
Appears so. See here for a recipe:
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/People/mjw/recipes/soup/barley-soup.html
> Jagerpfandl - some sort of pan fried game??
Any food with "Jäger" is usually a combination of meat and mushrooms.
> Pfirsich mit Granta - Peaches with ?
No idea. Might be some kind of alcohol.
> Kernoel - is this the cur of beef known as brisket?
no, it's oil made of pumpkin seeds. Another styrian speciality, see
http://www.pumpkinseedoil.com/
Generally - enter the unknown terms into a search engine, and you will
fine a lot already :)
have fun, toby
--
tobias benjamin köhler ____________________________________ t...@uncia.de
._______..__________.._______.._________. <>_<> <>_<>
| |_| || |_| |_| || |_| || |_| |_| | .---|'"`|---. .---|'"`|---.
"-o---o-""-oo----oo-""-o---o-""-oo---oo-""o"O-OO-OO-O"o""o"O-OO-OO-O"o"_
randee
when tourists are around...............
The (very tentative) schedule so far:
FRA or MUC to Innsbruck
Day 1 - Innsbruck to Zurich to Brig via Bern or Luzern
Day 2 - Brig to Zermatt, back to Disentis or Chur
Day 3 - Disentis or Chur to Innsbruck via Sargans
Day 4 - Innsbruck to Graz via Villach (March 2)
Day 5 - Graz concert (March 3)
Day 6 - Graz to Wien (maybe Wien concert on March 4) (via Bruck or
Fehring?)
Day 7 - Wien to Innsbruck via Salzburg
Day 8 - Innsbruck to Samedan via Landeck, Scuol, Sagliains, Klosters,
Filisur
Day 9 - Samedan to Verona via Tirano, Bergamo, Brescia
Day 10 - Verona
Day 11 - Verona to Soragna via Bologna
Day 12 - Verona to Parma and/or Montova
Day 12 - Verona to Ravenna
Day 13 - Ravenna
Day 14 - Ravenna to Verona
Strictly a 'strawman' schedule, only date cast in concrete is 3 March in
Graz. Since this involves lots of train changes (2 to 5 or more per
day) including a run down the Inn River by Post Bus, traveling light and
starting early is essential.
>
Hanspeter 'Happl' Oberlin wrote:
>
>
> That sounds great! I hope the wheater will be better than
> today in Zurich (all day fog) and that the alpes will be
> in snow.
>
> What have you planned in Switzerland?
>
randee
overnight stop (see answer to Happl above for the first cut at our
trip). But there were some other menus I also printed that I could have
used for a sample of translation problems. I have also seen the Hotel
Termini in Samedan recommended.
Actually I never thought of 'google'! Instead I used my copies of
Cassell's German-English/English-German dictionary and 'Der Sprach
Brockhaus' German-German dictionary. BTW, is 'Der Sprach Brockhaus'
still a standard desktop dictionary for German? The Cassell's
dictionary has the problem of getting my mindset back to the older form
of German printing.
"Dik T. Winter" wrote:
> Ah, you have been looking at <http://www.hirschen-samedan.ch/speisen.htm>,
> is this an advertisement in disguise ;-)? You forget the "Hirschfilet mit
> Rotkraut und Spaetzle" before this. But I have no idea what "Granta" is.
>
> Google is your friend.
>
--
randee
of using a search engine, instead I got my German dictionaries off the
shelf. They turned out to be of only limited usefulness (thus my
questions). We also have a Swiss cookbook, but it is in English and for
the most part does not give the Swiss terminology. Thanks for the
links.
FWIW, in case you all would like to see what they serve in a typical
German restaurant in the US:
http://metzgers.net/dinner.htm
Italian menus will be more of a problem for me I think........
tobias b köhler wrote:
>
> Generally - enter the unknown terms into a search engine, and you will
> fine a lot already :)
>
> have fun, toby
>
>
--
Dik T. Winter
> That is one of the hotel sites we were looking at as a possible
> overnight stop (see answer to Happl above for the first cut at our
> trip). But there were some other menus I also printed that I could have
> used for a sample of translation problems. I have also seen the Hotel
> Termini in Samedan recommended.
When I travel I use the hotels to sleep and to have breakfast. For dinner
I go into town and find some place to have a good meal (in most places not
too difficult). There has been only one exception to that rule in my life
and that was a big disappintment.
+GF+
http://translate.google.com/translate_t
Have fun on your trip.
--
+GF+
SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Books may introduce unfamiliar or confusing
ideas. In the event of uncomfortable self-reflection, heat to 451°
Fahrenheit ( 232.78° Centigrade or 505.9 Kelvin ) and seek television
immediately.
www.internationalrailfair.com
www.ete.org
Andreas Pavlik
wrote:
>You may wish to try :
>
>http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>Have fun on your trip.
Automatic translations might be dangerous. In the White House
reportedly somebody got "Nuclear Oil" for "Kernöl" and started
planning an invasion of Styria ;-)
Andreas
P.S. The link above gives "core oil", no idea what this is.
P.P.S. Some Non-Syrians, me included, do not like that stuff and use
to ask in Styrian restaurants for salad without Kernöl dressing.
--
Andreas Pavlik
Wien(Vienna), Austria
Hanspeter 'Happl' Oberlin
>The (very tentative) schedule so far:
>FRA or MUC to Innsbruck
>Day 1 - Innsbruck to Zurich to Brig via Bern or Luzern
I 'd recommend via Luzern over the Brunig line.
>Day 2 - Brig to Zermatt, back to Disentis or Chur
>Day 3 - Disentis or Chur to Innsbruck via Sargans
>Day 4 - Innsbruck to Graz via Villach (March 2)
>Day 5 - Graz concert (March 3)
>Day 6 - Graz to Wien (maybe Wien concert on March 4) (via Bruck or
>Fehring?)
>Day 7 - Wien to Innsbruck via Salzburg
>Day 8 - Innsbruck to Samedan via Landeck, Scuol, Sagliains, Klosters,
>Filisur
Filisur-Samedan over the Albula line...
I made a hiking trip from Preda to Bergun last summer.
<http://www.trainweb.org/swissrailways/04/0716_preda_berguen.html>
(in German)
>Day 9 - Samedan to Verona via Tirano, Bergamo, Brescia
Over the famous Bernina line...
>Day 10 - Verona
>Day 11 - Verona to Soragna via Bologna
>Day 12 - Verona to Parma and/or Montova
>Day 12 - Verona to Ravenna
>Day 13 - Ravenna
>Day 14 - Ravenna to Verona
>Strictly a 'strawman' schedule, only date cast in concrete is 3 March in
>Graz. Since this involves lots of train changes (2 to 5 or more per
>day) including a run down the Inn River by Post Bus, traveling light and
>starting early is essential.
At <http://fahrplan.sbb.ch/bin/query.exe/en?> you find the
online timetable of the Swiss Federal Railways which includes
all other Swiss railways and connections abroad.
At <http://www.sbb.ch/pv/incoming_e.htm> you find informations
for guests from abroad (scenic routes, the Swiss travel system).
Alan J. Flavell
> > the Steyrian style, but what is 'Backhendl'?
>
> Apparently something like chicken,
In Bavarian, Swiss German, Austrian, when you see a word ending in -dl
it's /usually/ a diminutive form. In this case it's the diminutive
form of Henne (hen) i.e it means chicken.
It's been compounded with Back- to indicate cooking method, but I
think in practice this means deep-fried rather than (as one might
suppose) baked ("Backwaren" are baked goods).
> > Jagerpfandl - some sort of pan fried game??
>
> No, see: <http://www.strebersdorferhof.at/essentrinken.htm> for an
> Austrian variant: "feines Ragout vom Weinviertler Rehbock serviert
> mit Bandnudeln und Preiselbeeren", although I think the "Rehbock"
> can be replaced by other game.
Indeed. The meat will be stewed rather than fried.
Since you mention it, stewed "Preiselbeeren" (very similar to
cranberries, but there are arguments about whether they're the same,
or only related) are a popular accompaniment to game.
> > Pfirsich mit Granta - Peaches with ?
>
> Ah, you have been looking at
> <http://www.hirschen-samedan.ch/speisen.htm>,
Yup, I also spotted that google has only a single hit on that menu
item.
> is this an advertisement in disguise ;-)? You forget the
> "Hirschfilet mit Rotkraut und Spaetzle" before this. But I have no
> idea what "Granta" is.
Me neither. I'm going to have a wild guess that it's some kind of
schnapps or liqueur based on pomegranates.
In general I think the likelihood of coming up with a sensible answer
from a translation server - or even a dictionary - may be rather
small, since menu items seem to use a kitchen language all of their
own ;-)
(Who would ever understand "Kaiserschmarrn" if it wasn't explained?)
tobias b köhler
> Automatic translations might be dangerous. In the White House
> reportedly somebody got "Nuclear Oil" for "Kernöl" and started
> planning an invasion of Styria ;-)
*laugh*
> P.S. The link above gives "core oil", no idea what this is.
> P.P.S. Some Non-Syrians, me included, do not like that stuff and use
> to ask in Styrian restaurants for salad without Kernöl dressing.
I'm not Syrian and not even Styrian by origin (but I now live there) -
my first encounter with Kernöl was in the Siemens-SGP cafeteria where I
found the salad dressing rather suspicious, a mixture of clear and dark
green liquids that don't really mix (apple vinegar and nuclear oil) - at
some point I decided to try it and liked it well enough, once I got used
to its strange look, and now I regularly use it for salads. I also like
using dark Balsamico vinegar, so the colour of my salads is rather dark.
It tastes good (to my taste), it just looks strange .... just don't use
too much of it and take care not to get it on white clothing; it's
rather hard to clean.
Mike Roebuck
wrote:
>
>Ah, you have been looking at <http://www.hirschen-samedan.ch/speisen.htm>,
>is this an advertisement in disguise ;-)? You forget the "Hirschfilet mit
>Rotkraut und Spaetzle" before this. But I have no idea what "Granta" is.
>
> > Kernoel - is this the cur of beef known as brisket?
>
>More like pumpkinseed oil. See: <http://www.pumpkinseedoil.cc/> and
>compare with <http://www.kernoel.cc/>.
Yes, it's pumpkin seed oil - a speciality of Styria.
--
Regards
Mike
mikedotroebuckatgmxdotnet
randee
is the first definition in Cassell's, but seed oil did not really make
sense in a menu context (other than perhaps for olive oil). Since
marrow and brisket are the second definitions of Kern, 'brisket oil'
struck me as possibly meaning marinated brisket, a very common menu item
in the US.
I would have expected pumpkinseed oil to be called Kuerbiskernoel, must
be a menu thing........
tobias b köhler wrote:
>
> > P.P.S. Some Non-Syrians, me included, do not like that stuff and use
> > to ask in Styrian restaurants for salad without Kernöl dressing.
>
> I'm not Syrian and not even Styrian by origin (but I now live there) -
> my first encounter with Kernöl was in the Siemens-SGP cafeteria where I
> found the salad dressing rather suspicious, a mixture of clear and dark
> green liquids that don't really mix (apple vinegar and nuclear oil) - at
> some point I decided to try it and liked it well enough, once I got used
> to its strange look, and now I regularly use it for salads. I a
Dik T. Winter
> It tastes good (to my taste), it just looks strange ....
O, I could tell stories about things that look strange but nevertheless
taste good. Try some restaurant in Bulgaria where the menu is in
Bulgarian and the local waiter does not know anything about English,
German or French. Yes, we experienced that, had a great meal there
nearly each day, but never did exactly know what we would get.
randee
and Andermatt? AFAIR I read somewhere that the Luzern to Interlaken
line is meter gauge, is that true and is that line one to add to the
'collection'?
That model railroad in Bergun looks interesting.
Hanspeter 'Happl' Oberlin wrote:
> >Day 1 - Innsbruck to Zurich to Brig via Bern or Luzern
>
> I 'd recommend via Luzern over the Brunig line.
>
>
>
> I made a hiking trip from Preda to Bergun last summer.
> <http://www.trainweb.org/swissrailways/04/0716_preda_berguen.html>
> (in German)
--
Hanspeter 'Happl' Oberlin
>"Kaiserschmarrn" - isn't that some kind of pancake with plums or
>raisins? Again, not in my dictionaries.
Exactly.
<http://www.aboutvienna.org/recipes/kaiserschmarrn.htm>
Hanspeter 'Happl' Oberlin
>> >Day 1 - Innsbruck to Zurich to Brig via Bern or Luzern
>> I 'd recommend via Luzern over the Brunig line.
>That would be Zurich to Brig via Luzern and Interlaken, or via Luzern
>and Andermatt? AFAIR I read somewhere that the Luzern to Interlaken
>line is meter gauge, is that true and is that line one to add to the
>'collection'?
Via Luzern and Interlaken, Andermatt would be a big detour and
you will see Andermatt on the way from Brig to Disentis.
Yes, the Brunig line is meter gauge.
I find the Brunig line more fascinating becauce it goes over a
pass and is in the alpes.
But it you want to collect the fastest line in Switzerland, you
have to go over Bern in a non-stop train from Zurich. Between Olten
and Bern the train goes over the new passage with 160 km/h.
<http://www.bahn2000.ch/ids/default.asp?TopicID=427>
<http://www.bahn2000.ch/ids/default.asp?TopicID=108> (in German)
> I made a hiking trip from Preda to Bergun last summer.
> <http://www.trainweb.org/swissrailways/04/0716_preda_berguen.html>
> (in German)
>That model railroad in Bergun looks interesting.
Yes. But it wasn't in service when we were there.
Martin Hoffmann
>
> Neither my Cassell's German-English dictionary, nor even my Sprach
> Brockhaus is really all that helpful on menu items. In browsing German
> menus in Switzerland and Austria on the web they don't seem to be too
> close to German menus in the US (even though many German-American
> restaurants are owned by first generation Germans).
It is always fun if three or four Germans go to have dinner with an
American. The desparate attempts to translate or explain the menu are
entertaining. For whatever reason, people who speak English quite well
don't know the names of most of the vegetables or animals, nor the
phrases for the various ways of preparing food (although with German
cuisine knowing "to fry" takes you quite far). And, of course, nobody
remembers to bring a dictionary.
"Well, Hackfleisch, that is kind'a like the meat thingy you put on
Hamburgers."
"Okay, and what is a Rollbraten?"
A short discussion between the Germans later: "Er, fried meat."
> "Kaiserschmarrn" - isn't that some kind of pancake with plums or
> raisins?
That would be the exact answer most Germans (as opposed to Austrians)
would give. Or, maybe just: It's something Austrian.
> Again, not in my dictionaries.
So far, the small Langenscheidt German/Italian dictionary (also known to
my friends as il libro giallo now) is the only one I came across that has
a separate menu section. Which is saying much about what Germans tend to
go to Italy for (the wheather, of course). Needless to say that the only
menu phrase I ever tried to look up wasn't in there. But then again,
"pizza" isn't in there either.
Regards,
Martin
--
Projects on the German Railway Network
http://www.nvnc.de/de-netz/index.en.html
*** Historical Atlas (2004-03-22) *** Historical Data (2004-03-03)