Obtaining old 1040's
gindie
years 97-99, parents need to retrieve 1040's for those years. They
just completed a move and as of yet are unable to find them.
Their tax preparer is retired (he hasn't been contacted yet). If he
doesn't have copies, how would they get the needed info? I think I
read on the IRS site that they only go back 6 years for retrieval.
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D. Stussy
news:46ca72fb-d649-450b...@d21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> Due to using part of their (just-sold) house as a business in tax
> years 97-99, parents need to retrieve 1040's for those years. They
> just completed a move and as of yet are unable to find them.
>
> Their tax preparer is retired (he hasn't been contacted yet). If he
> doesn't have copies, how would they get the needed info? I think I
> read on the IRS site that they only go back 6 years for retrieval.
If this was a home office or storage of inventory, you won't need 1997.
Such use prior to May 1998 is exempted from recapture.
Preparers are only required to keep returns 3 years. If the preparer
retired more than 3 years ago, you might be SOL.
========================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
Correction: Only depreciation on or after May 6, 1997.
See Page 9 http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p523.pdf
removep...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> "gindie" <gin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:46ca72fb-d649-450b...@d21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Due to using part of their (just-sold) house as a business in tax
> > just completed a move and as of yet are unable to find them.
>
> > doesn't have copies, how would they get the needed info? 锟絀 think I
> > read on the IRS site that they only go back 6 years for retrieval.
>
> If this was a home office or storage of inventory, you won't need 1997.
> Such use prior to May 1998 is exempted from recapture.
>
> retired more than 3 years ago, you might be SOL.
>
> ========================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
> Correction: Only depreciation on or after May 6, 1997.
> See Page 9http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p523.pdf
So if he doesn't recapture depreciation, how will the IRS know that
there is anything to recapture? And supposing that they magically
know that there is an amount to recapture, how do they know the amount
when they send you a tax bill?
At worst I guess the OP can recreate the depreciation from 1997 to
1999. The basis for depreciation will be the lower of cost basis
(which is purchase price plus additions), or FMV in 1997. Most likely
the lower value will be the cost basis, but that's a wild guess. Then
exclude depreciation for the first 5 months and 6 days of 1997 from
recapture.
D. Stussy
news:7b4a1212-7463-445b...@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 8, 4:37 pm, "D. Stussy" <spam+newsgro...@bde-arc.ampr.org>
> wrote:
> > "gindie" <gin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >
news:46ca72fb-d649-450b...@d21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > Due to using part of their (just-sold) house as a business in tax
> > > just completed a move and as of yet are unable to find them.
> >
> > > doesn't have copies, how would they get the needed info? I think I
> > > read on the IRS site that they only go back 6 years for retrieval.
> >
> > If this was a home office or storage of inventory, you won't need 1997.
> > Such use prior to May 1998 is exempted from recapture.
> >
> > retired more than 3 years ago, you might be SOL.
> >
> > ========================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
> > Correction: Only depreciation on or after May 6, 1997.
> > See Page 9http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p523.pdf
Thanks for the correction. (At least I was close.)
> So if he doesn't recapture depreciation, how will the IRS know that
> there is anything to recapture? And supposing that they magically
> know that there is an amount to recapture, how do they know the amount
> when they send you a tax bill?
>
> At worst I guess the OP can recreate the depreciation from 1997 to
> 1999. The basis for depreciation will be the lower of cost basis
> (which is purchase price plus additions), or FMV in 1997. Most likely
> the lower value will be the cost basis, but that's a wild guess. Then
> exclude depreciation for the first 5 months and 6 days of 1997 from
> recapture.
Note that if there were depreciation in later years, chances are it's on
the same schedule as covers the years in question, so recreation may be
trivial - just look up the percentage in the appropriate table.
HLunsford
> So if he doesn't recapture depreciation, how will the IRS know that
> there is anything to recapture? And supposing that they magically
> know that there is an amount to recapture, how do they know the amount
> when they send you a tax bill?
>
> At worst I guess the OP can recreate the depreciation from 1997 to
> 1999. The basis for depreciation will be the lower of cost basis
> (which is purchase price plus additions), or FMV in 1997. Most likely
> the lower value will be the cost basis, but that's a wild guess. Then
> exclude depreciation for the first 5 months and 6 days of 1997 from
> recapture.
>
As much as people might think the IRS has a record somewhere and is just
waiting to jump on this case saying "AHAH! he forgot to recapture this
depreciation in our files!", it just won't happen. This is another way
of saying that even if taxpayer "forgot" to calculate the recapture and
duly include said income, IRS wouldn't notice.
So in the absence of records, with this fellow being a new client of
mine, we would simply sit down and guesstimate to best of his ability
what that recapture amount might be, slap it on form 4797 etc and
continue to march.
As for preparers keeping copies of tax returns, they are not required to
do so. If I have the necessary lists of clients for whom I've prepared
returns during the last three years, my files can be at a bare minimum,
consisting only of W2's, 1099R's, etc, and signature forms.
ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA
D. Stussy
news:hda560$v8q$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> removep...@yahoo.com wrote:
> ...
> As for preparers keeping copies of tax returns, they are not required to
> do so. If I have the necessary lists of clients for whom I've prepared
> returns during the last three years, my files can be at a bare minimum,
> consisting only of W2's, 1099R's, etc, and signature forms.
I have never met a preparer who keeps "a list" of returns prepared. All
that I know usually satisfy the requirement by keeping a copy of the actual
return.
HLunsford
>
> I have never met a preparer who keeps "a list" of returns prepared. All
> that I know usually satisfy the requirement by keeping a copy of the actual
> return.
>
Ah... and now you have.
When first in business I kept a copy of all three returns prepared each
year for clients, but gradually came to a realization that it is not my
job to maintain client copies, so I reduced holding period to 5 years.
Then with modern software which preserves the information, no need to
keep copies which may be re produced electronically, hence the list
which is prescribed by regulation as acceptable. In fact the regulation
dates back to 1974 as far as I know.
ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA
--
D. Stussy
> D. Stussy wrote:
> > I have never met a preparer who keeps "a list" of returns prepared.
All
> > that I know usually satisfy the requirement by keeping a copy of the
actual
> > return.
> >
> Ah... and now you have.
>
> When first in business I kept a copy of all three returns prepared each
> year for clients, but gradually came to a realization that it is not my
> job to maintain client copies, so I reduced holding period to 5 years.
> Then with modern software which preserves the information, no need to
> keep copies which may be re produced electronically, hence the list
> which is prescribed by regulation as acceptable. In fact the regulation
> dates back to 1974 as far as I know.
OK, but if you're keeping the data, you're still keeping a "copy" - just in
electronic form.
HLunsford
>> year for clients, but gradually came to a realization that it is not my
>> job to maintain client copies, so I reduced holding period to 5 years.
>> Then with modern software which preserves the information, no need to
>> keep copies which may be re produced electronically, hence the list
>> which is prescribed by regulation as acceptable. In fact the regulation
>> dates back to 1974 as far as I know.
>
> OK, but if you're keeping the data, you're still keeping a "copy" - just in
> electronic form.
>
Well, it WOULD be a copy if I printed it to file as a *.pdf copy and
stored it, but I don't. (Some preparers do that.) Only the tax return
data resides on my hard drive so that I may create a copy at will.
ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA
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