Hot as Hell
Ignoramus5278
Chicago. 96 degrees, not even very humid. I walk to train for 40
minutes in each direction every day, even though I could drive. I like
being warm. This afternoon I finished building my generator shed (will
be used for other stuff as well). Working in this kind of weather is
invigorating.
I never use AC in my truck, AC is for wimps.
A tip about working in such weather: I take a very old towel and tie
it on my head, like the ragheads do. Works great, it absorbs sweat and
cools me. I look like a pirate though.
i
In article <15okfv89d005kfjlo...@4ax.com>, Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>
> It is sweltering here in Chicago.
> At night, the temperature dips to acceptable levels, but it takes all
> night long for the house to lose its latent heat. Just when things
> are getting comfortable, the sun comes up and the heating begins all
> over again.
>
> Until I get my new air conditioner ( on order ) installed, I have come
> up with an easy way to keep cool.
>
> A bowl of water and a towel will do the job. Wet the towel in the
> bowl of water, hold it in front of fan to get it COLD, and then wipe
> your body down with it.
>
> I've been monitoring my body's core temperature and I've not moved
> into a danger zone. But each year many many people DIE from heat.
> The year before last, we lost 800+ people to heat-related trouble.
> There wasn't even room in the morgue for all the bodies, so
> air-conditioned trucks were brought in to store the bodies until
> burial.
>
> Another cheap and easy way to cool off is to just get in a cool
> shower, and _don't_ dry off. Let yourself air-cool/dry.
>
> In light of these easy steps, I can't imagine how/why City Services
> can't educate the general public on these EASY and free ways to beat
> the summer heat.
>
> Lg
>
Jeffrey C. Dege
>
>A tip about working in such weather:
There's only tip about working in such weather - or rather, there's one
that's so much important that all of the rest don't matter:
Drink a lot of water.
Don't wait until you feel thirsty, that's not a reliable indicator.
If you don't need to piss, you need to drink more water.
If you do need to piss, and you're pissing yellow, you need to drink
more water.
And when I say you need to drink more water, that's water, not coffee,
sodas, teas, or whatever.
If you're working in hot weather, two quarts an hour is not unreasonable.
Do you need to piss, yet?
--
Neutiquam erro.
Halcitron
>Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
>Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:00:41 -0500
>
>It is sweltering here in Chicago.
>At night, the temperature dips to acceptable levels, but it takes all
>night long for the house to lose its latent heat. Just when things
>are getting comfortable, the sun comes up and the heating begins all
>over again.
>
>Until I get my new air conditioner ( on order ) installed, I have come
>up with an easy way to keep cool.
>
>A bowl of water and a towel will do the job. Wet the towel in the
>bowl of water, hold it in front of fan to get it COLD, and then wipe
>your body down with it.
>
>I've been monitoring my body's core temperature and I've not moved
>into a danger zone. But each year many many people DIE from heat.
>The year before last, we lost 800+ people to heat-related trouble.
>There wasn't even room in the morgue for all the bodies, so
>air-conditioned trucks were brought in to store the bodies until
>burial.
>
>Another cheap and easy way to cool off is to just get in a cool
>shower, and _don't_ dry off. Let yourself air-cool/dry.
>
>In light of these easy steps, I can't imagine how/why City Services
>can't educate the general public on these EASY and free ways to beat
>the summer heat.
>
>Lg
I solved that problem, by placing a fan in a window on the leeward (down wind)
side of the home.
Check the direction of the prevailing evening breeze.
I face the fan to the outside, so it exhausts the heat.
It is important to try to remove the heat from the house, rather than trying to
move cool air into the house. Cool air pushed into the room will absorb the
heat and do no good.
My fan is in a bathroom window, because the sill is higher than the rest.
Hot air rises.
If I could put a suction vent with dryer-hose, in the ceiling and exhaust the
warm air from at the top of the room, to the outside, while leaving the windows
open, then I could draw in the cooler air from the outside.
YMMV
:)
caveat lector
Halcitron misc.survivalism
Check your six and know when to duck.
NRA Member since 2002
The Law of the Land, is the weapon in your hand.
Smith & Wesson starts where the Bill of Rights stop.
Gunner
wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:00:41 -0500, Lawrence Glickman
><lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>It is sweltering here in Chicago.
>>At night, the temperature dips to acceptable levels, but it takes all
>>night long for the house to lose its latent heat. Just when things
>>are getting comfortable, the sun comes up and the heating begins all
>>over again.
>>
>>Until I get my new air conditioner ( on order ) installed, I have come
>>up with an easy way to keep cool.
>>
>>A bowl of water and a towel will do the job. Wet the towel in the
>>bowl of water, hold it in front of fan to get it COLD, and then wipe
>>your body down with it.
>>
>>I've been monitoring my body's core temperature and I've not moved
>>into a danger zone.
>
>Do you jab a thermometer into your liver like the coroner does,
>or how do you get a core temp?
>
>
>>
>>Another cheap and easy way to cool off is to just get in a cool
>>shower, and _don't_ dry off. Let yourself air-cool/dry.
>>
>
>
>Another cooling procedure is the get on a long route air conditioned
>transit, and take a magazine.
>Our Trolley is nice and cool and the entire end to end ride can consume
>over an hour each way. I take an mp3 player, some snacks, and a canteen,
>and can kill most of the hot part of the day with a couple round trips.
>
>Bart
Not much of a hobby..but hey..different strokes for different folks....
Gunner
Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli
Tim May
Glickman <lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
> On 26 Jun 2003 04:30:58 GMT, jd...@jdege.visi.com (Jeffrey C. Dege)
> wrote:
>
> |And when I say you need to drink more water, that's water, not coffee,
> |sodas, teas, or whatever.
>
> Yep
The notion that only pure H2O is OK has been debunked. It's water in
general...a little bit of tea leaves or sugar or carbonic acid is not
going to negate the effects of the water.
(In fact, some such fluids are better than pure water. Electrolyte
balance and all. Salty fluids are often needed. Ringer's Solution,
closely approximated by Gatorade, for example.)
My solution, so to speak, to the problems LG frequently reports on
here--how he desperately tries to keep warm in the winter, how he
desperately tries to keep cool in the summer, how he tries to keep his
African neighbors at bay all year round--is to live here in pleasant
coastal California. Daytime temperatures are usually in the 40s and 50s
in the coldest months and in the 70s and low 80s in the hottest months.
Nighttime temperatures drop about 10 degrees in the winter and about 15
degrees in the summer (because of fog and the effects of the ocean).
There are a few coloreds living in Santa Cruz, but none that I have
noticed within miles of where I live.
Probably some Jews, but they don't wear the funny little hats with long
greasy locks coming out the sides, so I don't notice them.
The guy being sued by Barbara Streisand for taking pictures of coastal
California lives a several hundred yards from me...I see the
helicopter his wife pilots swooping over my hilltop on approach to the
helipad at their estate.
--Tim May
Tim May
Glickman <lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:45:53 -0700, Bart Bailey <bar...@nethere.net>
> wrote:
>
> |>I've been monitoring my body's core temperature and I've not moved
> |>into a danger zone.
> |
> |Do you jab a thermometer into your liver like the coroner does,
> |or how do you get a core temp?
>
> I use an ear thermometer that reads the infrared coming off my
> eardrum. Pretty accurate, as is as close to brain temp as you're
> gonna get without pulling a Jeffrey Dahmer.
This is absurd. Yes, this is your "body temperature." But if you think
you can measure either drops or rise, you're being silly. Think about
it.
> Well, I suppose, that has its risks. How about that guy sitting next
> to you with TB who is sneezing on you, or the sleezeball with HIV that
> just left a booger for you on the seat handle ;-\
I understand the issue. You're a scientific illiterate.
--Tim May
Steve Day
"Lawrence I await your post in March complaining about the cold:o)
Steve Day
> Do you need to piss, yet?
>
> --
> Neutiquam erro.
Tell Laurence that gun ownership has been outlawed, that will make him pee
himself :o)
Steve Day
> Do you need to piss, yet?
>
> --
Do ya think Jeff is coming out the closet ( pun intended) to tell us he is
incontinent? :o)
Gunner
<lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>On 26 Jun 2003 03:36:04 GMT, Ignoramus5278
><ignora...@NOSPAM.5278.invalid> wrote:
>
>|To the contrary. I am enjoying wonderful weather here 25 miles west of
>|Chicago. 96 degrees, not even very humid. I walk to train for 40
>|minutes in each direction every day, even though I could drive. I like
>|being warm. This afternoon I finished building my generator shed (will
>|be used for other stuff as well). Working in this kind of weather is
>|invigorating.
>|
>|I never use AC in my truck, AC is for wimps.
>|
>|A tip about working in such weather: I take a very old towel and tie
>|it on my head, like the ragheads do. Works great, it absorbs sweat and
>|cools me. I look like a pirate though.
>|
>|i
>
>Oh, well, I have a cardiovascular problem that puts me at risk in heat
>and cold. Most if not all of the people who died from heat the summer
>before last had this or a similar condition.
>
>My point is, that for older people who NEED to get rid of heat, there
>is nothing quite like cool water and a fan to do the job. Wet some
>towels, wrap them on, and sit in front of the fan. Or, just get in a
>tub of cool water with yer clothes ON, and then air-dry, preferably in
>front of a fan. I did that yesterday. Saved my bleeding Life it did
>! Of course, I took my wallet outa my pocket first, and a couple
>other things ;-\
>
>Lg
Many of the meds used in treatment of cardio-vascular disease, and the
disease itself, make patients EXTREMELY sensitive to changes in
temperature and in great danger when in warm to hot temps. Some of the
drugs are diuretics used in various blood thinners, and others are beta
blockers, which require normal blood salinity/h20 levels to pass through
cell walls.
Every summer in hot spells, hundreds of the elderly die of heat
prostration, kidney failure etc etc.
My 47yr old slim and trim Ex has not only a cardio vascular problem
(several actually), but also has Factor V /Leiden, a blood disorder. She
MUST keep her fluid levels up, and she must remain out of the heat for
extended periods. She has found that Gatoraid helps, though the
potassium level is a bit higher than is proper for her disorder. I
believe there have been a number of "poor man" substitutes for Gatoraid
posted here on MS over the years.
rick...@yahoo.com
<lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>It is sweltering here in Chicago.
>At night, the temperature dips to acceptable levels, but it takes all
>night long for the house to lose its latent heat. Just when things
>are getting comfortable, the sun comes up and the heating begins all
>over again.
Welcome to Texas. TWO MONTHS AGO. :-)
Where the only thing that changes on the forecast is the DATE.
>Until I get my new air conditioner ( on order ) installed, I have come
>up with an easy way to keep cool.
>
>A bowl of water and a towel will do the job. Wet the towel in the
>bowl of water, hold it in front of fan to get it COLD, and then wipe
>your body down with it.
That, or a fan blowing over a bowl of ice. Especially if you can
still get, or make, block ice.
>I've been monitoring my body's core temperature and I've not moved
>into a danger zone. But each year many many people DIE from heat.
>The year before last, we lost 800+ people to heat-related trouble.
>There wasn't even room in the morgue for all the bodies, so
>air-conditioned trucks were brought in to store the bodies until
>burial.
>
>Another cheap and easy way to cool off is to just get in a cool
>shower, and _don't_ dry off. Let yourself air-cool/dry.
>
>In light of these easy steps, I can't imagine how/why City Services
>can't educate the general public on these EASY and free ways to beat
>the summer heat.
You have to be smart enough first, or Daley wants 'em to off
themselves so he'll have another 800 uncontested votes.
>Lg
Rick Bowen
TSRA Life Member
NRA Member
Ignoramus5278
I generally drink a lot of water. Yes, your advice is good.
i
Ignoramus5278
> On 26 Jun 2003 03:36:04 GMT, Ignoramus5278
> <ignora...@NOSPAM.5278.invalid> wrote:
>
> |Chicago. 96 degrees, not even very humid. I walk to train for 40
> |minutes in each direction every day, even though I could drive. I like
> |being warm. This afternoon I finished building my generator shed (will
> |be used for other stuff as well). Working in this kind of weather is
> |invigorating.
> |
> |I never use AC in my truck, AC is for wimps.
> |
> |A tip about working in such weather: I take a very old towel and tie
> |it on my head, like the ragheads do. Works great, it absorbs sweat and
> |cools me. I look like a pirate though.
> |
> |i
>
> and cold. Most if not all of the people who died from heat the summer
> before last had this or a similar condition.
>
> My point is, that for older people who NEED to get rid of heat, there
> is nothing quite like cool water and a fan to do the job. Wet some
> towels, wrap them on, and sit in front of the fan. Or, just get in a
> tub of cool water with yer clothes ON, and then air-dry, preferably in
> front of a fan. I did that yesterday. Saved my bleeding Life it did
> ! Of course, I took my wallet outa my pocket first, and a couple
> other things ;-\
Oh, I see. Well, if I had such a condition, I would also be in
trouble. I also hope that by exercising in hot weather I will be able
to prevent such conditions. What I was saying though, is that for a
moderately healthy person hot weather is enjoyable. I also tend to
sweat a lot (but not as much as I used to), so it helps keep me cool.
i
Ignoramus5278
when I lived in my old house. Mine was even remote controlled and had
a digital thermostat. I did not use AC during the day so the central
air was turned off. During the night, I like to sleep in cool room and
cover myself with a thick blanket, so I would indulge myself by
cooling only one room to 70 degrees. I am sure that it cost a fraction
of what it would cost to cool the whole house. The AC cost only $169
or so.
i
In article <ouukfvc0vlb2edfac...@4ax.com>, Lawrence Glickman wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:45:53 -0700, Bart Bailey <bar...@nethere.net>
> wrote:
>
> |>I've been monitoring my body's core temperature and I've not moved
> |>into a danger zone.
> |
> |Do you jab a thermometer into your liver like the coroner does,
> |or how do you get a core temp?
>
> I use an ear thermometer that reads the infrared coming off my
> eardrum. Pretty accurate, as is as close to brain temp as you're
> gonna get without pulling a Jeffrey Dahmer.
>
> |Another cooling procedure is the get on a long route air conditioned
> |transit, and take a magazine.
> |Our Trolley is nice and cool and the entire end to end ride can consume
> |over an hour each way. I take an mp3 player, some snacks, and a canteen,
> |and can kill most of the hot part of the day with a couple round trips.
> |
> |Bart
>
Thomas
>
> I never use AC in my truck, AC is for wimps.
Wow. I'm a wimp AND a lesbian.
Last year I purchased personal cooling units from Sharper image. Cost
over a buck for two units. In humid times, they are a waste of energy,
but on dry days they do help a bit.
Thomas (Sitting in my ac office, just got out of my ac truck, prior to
that I woke up in my ac home with a slight hangover from the ac bar)
Ignoramus5278
> On 26 Jun 2003 11:33:38 GMT, Ignoramus5278
> <ignora...@NOSPAM.5278.invalid> wrote:
>
> |Why can't you buy an A/C for one room? They are great, I owned one
> |when I lived in my old house. Mine was even remote controlled and had
> |a digital thermostat. I did not use AC during the day so the central
> |air was turned off. During the night, I like to sleep in cool room and
> |cover myself with a thick blanket, so I would indulge myself by
> |cooling only one room to 70 degrees. I am sure that it cost a fraction
> |of what it would cost to cool the whole house. The AC cost only $169
> |or so.
>
> 16 or 17 *kids* and 2 humans, move about from room to room. If we all
> stacked-up in 1 room, it would look like a train accident ;-\
how come you have so many kids?
i
Sue
Lawrence Glickman wrote in message
<0uslfv0na0ue38399...@4ax.com>...
>On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:50:31 -0700, Tim May
><tim...@removethis.got.net> wrote:
>
>
>|My solution, so to speak, to the problems LG frequently reports on
>|here--how he desperately tries to keep warm in the winter, how he
>|desperately tries to keep cool in the summer, how he tries to keep his
>|African neighbors at bay all year round--is to live here in pleasant
>|coastal California.
>
>Then, we can have *cook-outs* together on the weekends. Sounds like
>fun, doesn't it?
>
>Imagine Tim and Lg, toasting marshmallows over a small campfire. It
>makes the heart........stop momentarily.
ROFLMAO. I don't live too far from there. Can I come too? I'll bring the
marshmallows. ;o)
Sue
>
>Lg
>
Ignoramus5278
> Initially, on Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:00:41 -0500, Lawrence Glickman
> <lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> > Until I get my new air conditioner ( on order ) installed, I
> > have come up with an easy way to keep cool.
> >
> > A bowl of water and a towel will do the job. Wet the towel in
> > the bowl of water, hold it in front of fan to get it COLD, and
> > then wipe your body down with it.
>
> <ignora...@NOSPAM.5278.invalid> followed up:
>
> > I never use AC in my truck, AC is for wimps.
>
> quips here! (Assuming "AC" means "air conditioning," anyway. I don't
> have any air conditioning at all, but I do have some inverters....) I
> imagine I'd sing a different song if I lived in the Deep South, though
> ...and I readily acknowledge that not everyone can do without climate
> conditioning.
I lived in Oklahoma and routinely had 110 degree weather. Did not use
A/C in my car then, although I did use it at home. I also practiced
running while wearing an army jacket.
> > A tip about working in such weather: I take a very old towel
> > and tie it on my head, [...]. Works great, it absorbs sweat
> > and cools me. I look like a pirate though.
>
> I wear a boonie hat, frequently rinsed out in water, and use a 32 oz
> plastic spray bottle of water for direct application. Occasionally
> I'll add a light colored cotton scarf for additional shade and utility
> use.
Sweat is supposed to moisten the hat or the towel.
> Several Julys ago I carried out a daytime, 106 degree emergency
> relocation exercise of about 300 miles round trip. The water spray
> method worked great while on the road. However, one of the problems I
> listed in my AA assessment was that in my relative comfort I ingested
> less water (which amount nevertheless was considerable) than I should
> have, and at the conclusion of the exercise ended up mildly dehydrated
> anyway. As a remedial action, I have since tried to pay much more
> attention to water intake. It's just that being "coyote dry" is more
> the norm here, and a hard habit to break. (That is, ingesting water
> opportunistically, rather than in measured amounts per unit time or
> according to various indicators).
Drinking and sweating is important. I am lucky because I sweat a lot.
i
> So many disciplines to build and simultaneously practice; so little
> time....
>
> But Lg should soon be in for some -temperature- relief anyway. Isn't
> that big, northern cold weather system that wreaked havoc further west
> (lows in the mid 40s, tornados) due in Illinois about now?
>
> Lee_K
Allan Rowe
time to dissipate in many homes is a lack of attic ventilation.
Have a peak up there, if it's hot as blazes you probably have a problem, if
it's the middle of the day and you don't see much light, you probably have a
problem.
Take a peak at the roof from the outside, if the shingles are curling up at
the corners you probably have a problem, if you see only a couple of tiny
little roof or soffet vents you probably have a problem.
Properly ventilated attics need lots of both soffet and roof-top ventilation
to get a good flow-through effect. If you suspect a problem call in a
reputable roofer to advise on increasing one or the other or both.
Regards,
Allan
"Lawrence Glickman" <lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:15okfv89d005kfjlo...@4ax.com...
>
> It is sweltering here in Chicago.
> At night, the temperature dips to acceptable levels, but it takes all
> night long for the house to lose its latent heat. Just when things
> are getting comfortable, the sun comes up and the heating begins all
> over again.
>
> Until I get my new air conditioner ( on order ) installed, I have come
> up with an easy way to keep cool.
>
> A bowl of water and a towel will do the job. Wet the towel in the
> bowl of water, hold it in front of fan to get it COLD, and then wipe
> your body down with it.
>
> I've been monitoring my body's core temperature and I've not moved
> into a danger zone. But each year many many people DIE from heat.
> The year before last, we lost 800+ people to heat-related trouble.
> There wasn't even room in the morgue for all the bodies, so
> air-conditioned trucks were brought in to store the bodies until
> burial.
>
> Another cheap and easy way to cool off is to just get in a cool
> shower, and _don't_ dry off. Let yourself air-cool/dry.
>
> In light of these easy steps, I can't imagine how/why City Services
> can't educate the general public on these EASY and free ways to beat
> the summer heat.
>
> Lg
>
Perry Noid
> It is sweltering here in Chicago.
I see you live in an area where evaporative coolers don't work very
well, which means it actually feels hotter than it really is. That's
just too bad.
Ignoramus5278
i
Gunner
<lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>On 26 Jun 2003 13:36:58 GMT, Ignoramus5278
><ignora...@NOSPAM.5278.invalid> wrote:
>
>|how come you have so many kids?
>|
>|i
>
>Wife worked for Animal Rescue for a while ( years ). We gathered a
>bit of a collection ;-)
LOL... I think Ive currently got you beat..though did give away 6
Aussie/Golden retriever pups last Saturday at Walmart (security sorta
kinda looked the other way and I was on the very very edge of the
property.
Gunner
<lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>When guns are outlawed, only Glickman will have guns.
>
>Will I turn them in? Only hot muzzle first. And over my empty ammo
>cans.
>
>Lg
"You may find me one day dead in a ditch somewhere. But by God,
you'll find me in a pile of brass." Tpr. M. Padgett
"Let's Roll." Scott Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
Tim May
Glickman <lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 01:41:53 GMT, m.p...@cox.net (Perry Noid) wrote:
>
> |Lawrence Glickman <lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
> |
> |> It is sweltering here in Chicago.
> |
> |I see you live in an area where evaporative coolers don't work very
> |well, which means it actually feels hotter than it really is. That's
> |just too bad.
>
> Interesting charts, Perry.
> I wonder why most of the U.S.A. is in the same *zone* I'm in. It
> can't be the moisture factor, as Oregon and Washington State are
> usually drenched with rain.
I lived for two years in Oregon, west of Portland.
While it rained _sometimes_ in June-September, the "drenching" times
followed the usual Pacific Coast pattern of most of the rain in
November-April (Dec-March in southern California, Nov-April in northern
California, October-May in the Pacific Northwest).
Summers were mostly dry, with few mosquitos, noseeums, etc.
The RH in Oregon was _nothing_ compared to the RH I felt on the East
Coast. The midwest is not much different from the East Coast.
So, "wonder" no more.
--Tim May
Noah Simoneaux
>In article <5jukfv4vcop74pqfu...@4ax.com>, Lawrence
>Glickman <lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>> On 26 Jun 2003 04:30:58 GMT, jd...@jdege.visi.com (Jeffrey C. Dege)
>> wrote:
>
>>
>> |And when I say you need to drink more water, that's water, not coffee,
>> |sodas, teas, or whatever.
>>
>> Yep
>
>The notion that only pure H2O is OK has been debunked. It's water in
>general...a little bit of tea leaves or sugar or carbonic acid is not
>going to negate the effects of the water.
Actually, the point they were trying to make is not so much that you need pure
water, but that you should avoid caffeine. It cancels out some of the benefit of
drinking tea/coffee/colas with caffeine.
The fates lead the willing, and drag the unwilling. - Seneca
Noah Simoneaux
wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:50:31 -0700, Tim May
><tim...@removethis.got.net> wrote:
>
>
>|My solution, so to speak, to the problems LG frequently reports on
>|here--how he desperately tries to keep warm in the winter, how he
>|desperately tries to keep cool in the summer, how he tries to keep his
>|African neighbors at bay all year round--is to live here in pleasant
>|coastal California.
>
>I may talk with a Realtor to see if I can move into your neighborhood.
>Then, we can have *cook-outs* together on the weekends. Sounds like
>fun, doesn't it?
Nah, been there, done that. How much would they pay you to live in California?
It better be a LOT. ;)
>
>Imagine Tim and Lg, toasting marshmallows over a small campfire. It
>makes the heart........stop momentarily.
Nah, not believable. ;)
Noah Simoneaux
(snip)
>(And I fully agree that practicing under realistic conditions, like
>running while wearing a field jacket, makes eminent sense.)
ONLY if you're running in extreme cold, and then take off the jacket when you
get warm enough to minimize sweating. I'd never "realistically" run with a field
jacket on in warm weather. ;)
(snip)
Ignoramus32229
because 15 years of running impacted my knees.
i
Tim May
Ignoramus32229 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.32229.invalid> wrote:
> I used to run in an army jacket in 110 degrees. Now I runa lot less
> because 15 years of running impacted my knees.
It was needless torture. Running or exercising in heavy clothes
(sweats, field jackets, etc.) does _nothing_ except increase sweating.
Some people think it makes them lose weight faster, but of course all
it does is increase water loss, which looks like weight loss, until the
water is replaced by rehydration.
So, exercising in hot weather, or wearing hot clothes, or sitting in a
steam room or sauna all have negligible effects on overall
effectiveness of exercise.
Frankly, running in a an army field jacket in 110 degrees sounds crazy.
The Soviet submariners used to have a manouver called "Crazy Ivan." I
dub running in 110 weather in a heavy field jacket the "Crazy Igor."
--Tim May
Ignoramus32229
> In article <slrnbfp21f.a48...@manifold.algebra.com>,
> Ignoramus32229 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.32229.invalid> wrote:
>
> > I used to run in an army jacket in 110 degrees. Now I runa lot less
> > because 15 years of running impacted my knees.
>
> It was needless torture. Running or exercising in heavy clothes
> (sweats, field jackets, etc.) does _nothing_ except increase sweating.
I like sweating. It makes me feel better instantly. Maybe there is
something wrong with me, but I always feel much better after I sweat
profusely.
Perhaps the issue is not the production of sweat per se, but a decent
cardiovascular workout. I got addicted to such stuff after years of
running. If I do not exercise in some way, I become cranky and my mood
plummets.
Maybe there are some bad chemicals that are evacuated with sweat. No
idea.
> Some people think it makes them lose weight faster, but of course all
> it does is increase water loss, which looks like weight loss, until the
> water is replaced by rehydration.
Agreed. Except that you need some calories to lose water also, but the
effect is probably minor.
> So, exercising in hot weather, or wearing hot clothes, or sitting in a
> steam room or sauna all have negligible effects on overall
> effectiveness of exercise.
>
> Frankly, running in a an army field jacket in 110 degrees sounds crazy.
Well, maybe it is. But I liked it.
> The Soviet submariners used to have a manouver called "Crazy Ivan." I
> dub running in 110 weather in a heavy field jacket the "Crazy Igor."
>
Never heard of the crazy ivan maneuver. What is it?
i
Sue
Lawrence Glickman wrote in message ...
>On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:29:12 GMT, noa...@there.com (Noah Simoneaux)
>wrote:
>
>|>I may talk with a Realtor to see if I can move into your neighborhood.
>|>Then, we can have *cook-outs* together on the weekends. Sounds like
>|>fun, doesn't it?
>|
>|Nah, been there, done that. How much would they pay you to live in
California?
>|It better be a LOT. ;)
>
>When I was in So. Cal. the weather was spectacular, the scenery
>spectacular. Unfortunately, I was there on business and didn't have
>enough time to enjoy everything.
>
>Wasn't there long enough to experience mudslides, earthquakes, forest
>fires, etc. etc. But that nice breeze off the Pacific was refreshing.
>And sunshine most days.
>
>As Tim correctly pointed out, the Relative Humidity on the East Coast
>is HELL ( e.g. Florida ). On the West Coast, it didn't bother me a
>bit.
>
>I was way south, like from San Diego all the way down to the Mexican
>border. Milpitas was -especially- nice.
Unless there was a major earthquake in California that shifted a big section
of landmass that I'm unaware of, Milpitas is in Northern California. I
haven't been over there recently to check, though.
Sue
Mysterion
> Not because of me. I don't have anything against Tim. If he thinks I
> do, it is his imagination doing overtime.
>
> He hates me for ( amongst other reasons ) being a Jew. >
I think its because you are both very high on the "obnoxious" scale.
Timmy can't stand the fact that a nice jew boy from Chi-town is competition.
erniegalts
<lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:29:12 GMT, noa...@there.com (Noah Simoneaux)
>wrote:
>
>|>I may talk with a Realtor to see if I can move into your neighborhood.
>|>Then, we can have *cook-outs* together on the weekends. Sounds like
>|>fun, doesn't it?
>|
>|Nah, been there, done that. How much would they pay you to live in California?
>|It better be a LOT. ;)
>
>Depends on where in CA.
>When I was in So. Cal. the weather was spectacular, the scenery
>spectacular. Unfortunately, I was there on business and didn't have
>enough time to enjoy everything.
>
>Wasn't there long enough to experience mudslides, earthquakes, forest
>fires, etc. etc. But that nice breeze off the Pacific was refreshing.
>And sunshine most days.
>
>As Tim correctly pointed out, the Relative Humidity on the East Coast
>is HELL ( e.g. Florida ). On the West Coast, it didn't bother me a
>bit.
>
>I was way south, like from San Diego all the way down to the Mexican
>border. Milpitas was -especially- nice.
>
>|>Imagine Tim and Lg, toasting marshmallows over a small campfire. It
>|>makes the heart........stop momentarily.
>|
>|Nah, not believable. ;)
>
>Not because of me. I don't have anything against Tim. If he thinks I
>do, it is his imagination doing overtime.
Tim may have extreme opinions, but as far as I know he hasn't lied
about me, although others have, especially some who are resident in
California and Florida.
>
>He hates me for ( amongst other reasons ) being a Jew. So? Fuck him.
>That isn't a statement of animosity, but rather one of indifference.
>Him and a lot of other people can take a dive of the Golden Gate
>bridge. Doesn't change my life one way or the other.
>
>Lg
Didn't someone once say that California would be a great state if it
wasn't for the Californians? :-)
Probably lots of nice places in Africa, too....:-)
Only kidding, of course. Am sure that most of the residents of
California are more or less normal, and perhaps the reputation of
their state really isn't deserved. :-)
Tim May
Ignoramus32229 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.32229.invalid> wrote:
Google on "google" to see what you have been missing by not knowing
about Google.
--Tim May
Robert
off period before it gets hot again. You really need an air
conditioners here or will suffer for it. We were in the mist of a
draught, but suddenly the whole month of April consisted of Noah's
return and catch-up for months of little rain.
The pasture here is rock hard and cracked. The past 3 years
weather-wise have been like living near the beach in Los Angeles for
most of the year. It's a great improvement as far as human habitation.
Tim's old stomping ground resembles Silicon Valley more than old
Oregon now. Hwy 26 is a parking lot for miles in the morning and
evening. Most of the farmland along the highway is gone and you don't
see open land until you get the BLM - National Forest miles to the
west. Beaverton is a traffic nightmare I avoid at all costs now. I
used to live in Cedar Mill years ago. Now it resembles an abandoned
inner city getto on the surface, even though it is not. The Dept. of
Transportation / Portland politicians make sure all roadways are as
crowded as possible to discourage automobile use. Instead most people
buy SUVs now so they can sit back in their recliners and talk on the
cell phone as they inch their way forward (or park) on the freeway.
Robert
Buck Turgidson
<lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>It is sweltering here in Chicago.
Try some of these.
Air conditioning systems don't need to rely on the electrical grid.
I have also included a link to the personal cooling units that the
Military just did a bid solicitation for our troops in Iraq.
Also check back issues of homepower magazine, there was an article
about a year ago on a passive cooling system, using absorption in a
desert house, and cooling radient "fin: units placed high on the walls
of the house.
Personal Cooling Technologies
http://www.glaciertek.com/how_personal_cooling_tech.htm
Marines in Iraq just ordered a bunch of these units
http://www.glaciertek.com/cooling.htm
Absorption vs mechanical method of cooling
http://www.heatpumpcentre.org/activity/download/an24_18_4.pdf
Waste heat absorption chillers
http://www.mechanicalsystems.com/absorpti.htm
RV refrigerator FAQ
http://www.marksrv.com/refrigfaq.htm
Absorption cooling for housing/ with sources
http://www.toolbase.org/tertiaryT.asp?DocumentID=2091&CategoryID=1435
"Gas air conditioning" datasheet- Serval.. same folks who make the
refrigerators
http://www.robur.com/images/products%20images/resident.pdf
White paper on dual fired generator for space cooling
http://eisg.sdsu.edu/Fullsums/01-06.htm
Cooltech, residential absorption units
http://www.coolingtechnologies.com/
Tim May
<Roberts_post...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Tim's old stomping ground resembles Silicon Valley more than old
> Oregon now. Hwy 26 is a parking lot for miles in the morning and
> evening. Most of the farmland along the highway is gone and you don't
> see open land until you get the BLM - National Forest miles to the
> west. Beaverton is a traffic nightmare I avoid at all costs now. I
> used to live in Cedar Mill years ago. Now it resembles an abandoned
> inner city getto on the surface, even though it is not. The Dept. of
> Transportation / Portland politicians make sure all roadways are as
> crowded as possible to discourage automobile use. Instead most people
> buy SUVs now so they can sit back in their recliners and talk on the
> cell phone as they inch their way forward (or park) on the freeway.
I lived out between Aloha and Hillsboro, just off T.V. Highway. This
was in 1980-82 and things were very rural. Not as rural as Forest Grove
or Vernonia, but rural.
There used to be a couple of good bars and dives up in the foothills.
One of them was called "The Rock Creek Tavern," and I've forgotten the
names of the others.
Those of us who were engineers at Intel found most of our neighbors
were unemployed loggers. "We don't want none of them _California_
jobs...we just likes our unemployment checks and some chaw."
I was glad to move back to California. I think I could tolerate living
in a rural area, and my current area is pretty rural. But I hated
living in a place that was "in transition," with electro-optical
physicists living amongst inbred loggers, with politicians trying to
milk the new arrivals for everything they could possibly steal and then
transfer to the loggers and Coho salmon fishermen.
--Tim May
Noah Simoneaux
wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:29:12 GMT, noa...@there.com (Noah Simoneaux)
>wrote:
>
>|>I may talk with a Realtor to see if I can move into your neighborhood.
>|>Then, we can have *cook-outs* together on the weekends. Sounds like
>|>fun, doesn't it?
>|
>|Nah, been there, done that. How much would they pay you to live in California?
>|It better be a LOT. ;)
>
>Depends on where in CA.
>When I was in So. Cal. the weather was spectacular, the scenery
>spectacular. Unfortunately, I was there on business and didn't have
>enough time to enjoy everything.
The weather and the scenery weren't too bad when I was there, but that STILL
wouldn't be enough to persuade me to live there. I got out of the Army while I
was there and was free to go anywhere to live. That's why I'm in Arkansas now.
;)
>
>Wasn't there long enough to experience mudslides, earthquakes, forest
>fires, etc. etc. But that nice breeze off the Pacific was refreshing.
>And sunshine most days.
>
>As Tim correctly pointed out, the Relative Humidity on the East Coast
>is HELL ( e.g. Florida ). On the West Coast, it didn't bother me a
>bit.
You should visit southern Louisiana, where I grew up. I've been to Florida in
the heat of summer, and the humidity there didn't seem as bad as the stuff I
grew up in(in the middle of the swamps).
>
>I was way south, like from San Diego all the way down to the Mexican
>border. Milpitas was -especially- nice.
>
>|>Imagine Tim and Lg, toasting marshmallows over a small campfire. It
>|>makes the heart........stop momentarily.
>|
>|Nah, not believable. ;)
>
>Not because of me. I don't have anything against Tim. If he thinks I
>do, it is his imagination doing overtime.
>
>He hates me for ( amongst other reasons ) being a Jew. So? Fuck him.
>That isn't a statement of animosity, but rather one of indifference.
>Him and a lot of other people can take a dive of the Golden Gate
>bridge. Doesn't change my life one way or the other.
>
>Lg
>
The fates lead the willing, and drag the unwilling. - Seneca
erniegalts
<lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>It is sweltering here in Chicago.
>At night, the temperature dips to acceptable levels, but it takes all
>night long for the house to lose its latent heat. Just when things
>are getting comfortable, the sun comes up and the heating begins all
>over again.
>
>Until I get my new air conditioner ( on order ) installed, I have come
>up with an easy way to keep cool.
>
>A bowl of water and a towel will do the job. Wet the towel in the
>bowl of water, hold it in front of fan to get it COLD, and then wipe
>your body down with it.
>
>I've been monitoring my body's core temperature and I've not moved
>into a danger zone. But each year many many people DIE from heat.
>The year before last, we lost 800+ people to heat-related trouble.
>There wasn't even room in the morgue for all the bodies, so
>air-conditioned trucks were brought in to store the bodies until
>burial.
>
>Another cheap and easy way to cool off is to just get in a cool
>shower, and _don't_ dry off. Let yourself air-cool/dry.
Hardly latest news. At least 30 years ago only way to get to sleep in
Darwin. Cold shower until shiver. Fall into bed under ceiling fan.
Hope that got to sleep before heat discomfort returns.
>
>In light of these easy steps, I can't imagine how/why City Services
>can't educate the general public on these EASY and free ways to beat
>the summer heat.
Perhaps they are like Gunner and there apparent objective is to injure
people?
erniegalts
>
>Lg
erniegalts
<lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>On 26 Jun 2003 04:30:58 GMT, jd...@jdege.visi.com (Jeffrey C. Dege)
>wrote:
>
>|On 26 Jun 2003 03:36:04 GMT, Ignoramus5278 <ignora...@NOSPAM.5278.invalid> wrote:
>|>
>|>A tip about working in such weather:
>|
>|There's only tip about working in such weather - or rather, there's one
>|that's so much important that all of the rest don't matter:
>|
>|Drink a lot of water.
>
>Yep, I -knew- I forgot to post that as soon as I hit the send button.
>Then I went and took another cold shower *-)
>
>|Don't wait until you feel thirsty, that's not a reliable indicator.
>
>Correct
>
>|If you don't need to piss, you need to drink more water.
>
>I've been pouring liquids into me like filling up a gas can. Only
>next to no piss coming out. So it must be leaving in form of sweat or
>through lung moisture.
>
>|If you do need to piss, and you're pissing yellow, you need to drink
>|more water.
>
>Yep
>
>|And when I say you need to drink more water, that's water, not coffee,
>|sodas, teas, or whatever.
>
>Yep
>
>|If you're working in hot weather, two quarts an hour is not unreasonable.
>|
>|Do you need to piss, yet?
>
>Nope
>
>Still guzzling liquids though. The pinch test says I am *borderline*
>dehydrated. I'm guzzling as fast as I can, Captain !!!
>
>Lg
Ah, well, Glickman, if it is "borderline" there is only one worthwhile
test.
If Gunner has grossly insulted you and lied about you, what you do is
go to his website, and download a photo of him. [Resolution doesn't
matter, color doesn't matter.]
Place it on the floor. Squat over it. If you can manage to piss or
shit on it, then you probably are not dehydratred.
erniegalts
<tim...@removethis.got.net> wrote:
>In article <5jukfv4vcop74pqfu...@4ax.com>, Lawrence
>Glickman <lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>> On 26 Jun 2003 04:30:58 GMT, jd...@jdege.visi.com (Jeffrey C. Dege)
>> wrote:
>
>>
>
>The notion that only pure H2O is OK has been debunked. It's water in
>general...a little bit of tea leaves or sugar or carbonic acid is not
>going to negate the effects of the water.
>
>balance and all. Salty fluids are often needed. Ringer's Solution,
>closely approximated by Gatorade, for example.)
True, of course.
>
>My solution, so to speak, to the problems LG frequently reports on
>here--how he desperately tries to keep warm in the winter, how he
>desperately tries to keep cool in the summer, how he tries to keep his
>African neighbors at bay all year round--is to live here in pleasant
>coastal California.
Off the top of the head, sounds like a reasonable solution if don't
mind living in the same state as liars such as "Gunner".
Daytime temperatures are usually in the 40s and 50s
>in the coldest months and in the 70s and low 80s in the hottest months.
>Nighttime temperatures drop about 10 degrees in the winter and about 15
>degrees in the summer (because of fog and the effects of the ocean).
>
>There are a few coloreds living in Santa Cruz, but none that I have
>noticed within miles of where I live.
Lying assholes like "Gunner" one needs "coloreds"?
Hmm, come to think of it, have never met such a liar from any other
race.
>
>Probably some Jews, but they don't wear the funny little hats with long
>greasy locks coming out the sides, so I don't notice them.
Don't remember any Jew from misc.survivalism who accused me of being a
pedophile either.
Atheists, agnostics, Buddhists....yes.
Don't think you have though, Tim.
Gunner, and others, haven't accused you of being a "pedophile" yet
they have accused me, a conservative Protestant Christian, of being a
"pedophile".
When they try to smear you, I wonder what they will accuse you of
being?
Will they try to "smear" you? Sure, why not?
Gunner and others are obviously trying to do it with me, and you would
be much more of a potential threat to them than I could ever possibly
be.
>The guy being sued by Barbara Streisand for taking pictures of coastal
>California lives a several hundred yards from me...I see the
>helicopter his wife pilots swooping over my hilltop on approach to the
>helipad at their estate.
>
>--Tim May
Robert
routes until you live in Oregon. They simply don't have them in most
areas, unless you drive 20 to 30+ miles out of your way. Think of the
Alaska Hwy and only one route when you think of Oregon Hwys. I love
those parallel roads most states interstate hwys have on both sides of
them. I don't remember ever seeing one in Oregon.
Once when they decided to close I-5 south of Portland due to a truck
overturning they kept it closed for 5 hours. Traffic began diverting
West to where I live, then turned South, then turned back East. About
a 40 mile diversion. Even the Germans and their hwys designed to
frustrate Russian invaders can't compare to this.
They simply don't believe in parallel access roads or alternate routes
here, even for the major hwys. To make matters worse, roads are so
lacking here, if it's rush hour, there are cars backed up everywhere,
even in the supposed boonies over 20 miles from Portland. Add a wreak
and your going to be very very late.
They also have some weird ODOT practice as well; although this is
unverified rumor, it seems to be true: When the hwy is all clear they
call the supervisor in Salem for permission to re-open it. He then
drives up from Salem before he gives the go-ahead. The extra delay
makes the Portland anti-car wackos happy and he gets to keep his job
another year.
Robert
On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:00:51 -0500, Lawrence Glickman
<lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>I have the solution to that problem.
>I take the back roads/highways, and zip past the traffic jams from
>construction on the Interstate.
>
Robert
California are more expert at it. I heard they are coming up with new
taxes to pay for the states $40 billion debt, and some businesses are
so fed up they are ready to jump states. I am not seeing as many
California refugees as I saw in the late 1980's and throughout the
1990's, but that might be because they are too poor to move north now.
My father grew up near where you live on a farm outside of Watsonville
in the 1920's and 30's. He used to take me around all the nice farm
country in that area when I was a kid visiting my Grandparents in
Salinas. Later he didn't want to retire there because he thought too
many people had moved in and it was just too crowded and expensive.
Ocean view land was several thousand dollars an acre near Santa Cruz
and that seemed outrageous at the time. Climate-wise, this is my
favorite place in the world.
Robert
Tim May
<Roberts_post...@yahoo.com> wrote:
...
> My father grew up near where you live on a farm outside of Watsonville
> in the 1920's and 30's. He used to take me around all the nice farm
> country in that area when I was a kid visiting my Grandparents in
> Salinas. Later he didn't want to retire there because he thought too
> many people had moved in and it was just too crowded and expensive.
> Ocean view land was several thousand dollars an acre near Santa Cruz
> and that seemed outrageous at the time. Climate-wise, this is my
> favorite place in the world.
Yes, I live "just outside of Watsonville."
More precisely, in the spectacular foothilss of the Santa Cruz
Mountains, in a small town called Corralitos.
I'm about 400 feet above the valley below me, where orchards, farms,
cows, and horses run, even vineyards.
Standing up from where I type...now...I see a late afternoon fog bank
obscuring my view of Monterey and Pebble Beach, though the Santa Lucia
Mountains (the ones Big Sur are part of) are crystal clear above the
fog.
I lived for several years, each, in places with even nicer climates
(hard as that may be to believe). I lived as a kid in San Diego, with
memories of visiting the San Diego Zoo, Mount Palomar (only opened
several years earlier), Disneyland, etc. And I went to college in
Santa Barbara, which probably has the best year-round climate on the
planet. (Having lived for a year also on the French Riviera, I know
whereof I speak.)
This area is slightly cooler than either San Diego or Santa Barbara,
slightly wetter, but is of course closer to my various friends in
Silicon Valley and the greater San Francisco Bay Area. A reasonable
trade-off.
I was out today with my tree guy helping to trim some of my oaks and
madrones...the greater rainfall we get here makes for a much more lush
vegetation situation than either San Diego or Santa Barbara has (except
in special gardens, which can be spectacular). Being out amongst the
madrones, oaks, palms, yuccas, cacti, etc. makes me appreciate my
climate.
And the weather is generally spectacular. Never any smog, as the wind
almost always blows in from the Pacific. The temperature at night is
almost always very comfortable for sleeping. Rarely any freezing
temperatures (less so than just inland from here, including in Silicon
Valley/San Jose, which gets more frosts than I get here out by the
ocean, for the usual reasons).
So, yes, I am very, very happy to have settled in this area. Monterey
and Carmel and Pebble Beach are visible from my back yard, and can be
visited easily. Weird Santa Cruz, with a major world-class university
(UCSC) is 10 miles west of me, and all of the many attractions of San
Francisco-Berkeley-Marin-Palo Alto-etc. are just an hour away.
I don't like the 10% state income tax and the various problems
California is known for, but the likeliest alternative places I could
move to--including Nevada, Texas, Florida--have as many problems or
more, and are either much colder or much hotter or both. (I have
friends who moved to Nevada and Texas for tax reasons, and relatives in
Florida I visited.)
I first moved to California, to San Diego, in 1956. After moving to
Virginia in 1961, I practically got tears in my eyes whenever I heard
"California Here I Come, Right Back Where I Started From" played as a
song. So in 1970 I had to choose between MIT, UC, or Stanford. I chose
UC.
Except for two years exiled to the forests of Oregon, I've been in
California ever since.
People here are fond of joking about California. I understand why. But
only those who live here understand the vibrancy, the natural beauty,
the multiculture excitement, the high tech mecca it really is, the
whole issue of people moving west as far as they could go and settling
in California.
I doubt I will ever actually leave.
--Tim May
Noah Simoneaux
wrote:
(snip)
>I've been in Northwest Arkansas. Beautiful. That and NorthEast
>Oklahoma. Don't tell anybody though. It is a secret just between us,
>OK?
Too late. The secret's out, but that still hasn't ruined it so far. ;)
>
>Southern Missouri is also spectacular. Right down along the north
>Arkansas border.
Yep, I'm 12 miles south of the state line.
>
>|You should visit southern Louisiana, where I grew up. I've been to Florida in
>|the heat of summer, and the humidity there didn't seem as bad as the stuff I
>|grew up in(in the middle of the swamps).
>
>My memories of living in the South along the coastal areas are of
>running ( not walking ) from air conditioner to air conditioner... ;-|
I grew up there with no air conditioner. I still don't much care for air
conditioning, and I have a problem forcing myself to drink enough water in hot
weather. I grew up where I could just breathe and get enough water no matter how
hot the weather was. ;)
>
>Here, I only have to put up with that crap for a few months out of the
>year. Florida and Texas in the summer are HELL !!!
>
>Maybe if you live there all your life, your body acclimatizes to the
>weather. If you are only a visitor ( snowbird ) from the north
>country, it isn't pleasant my -any- measure of the imagination.
>
Not sure. Even though I grew up there I never seemed to get used to the high
heat and humidity. I still smile when I hear people around here complain about
the humidity. A few days in the Louisiana swamps would give them an appreciation
for real humidity.
(snip)
Noah Simoneaux
>On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 04:22:32 GMT, noa...@there.com (Noah Simoneaux)
>wrote:
>
>>You should visit southern Louisiana, where I grew up. I've been to Florida in
>>the heat of summer, and the humidity there didn't seem as bad as the stuff I
>>grew up in(in the middle of the swamps).
>
>Must be a coon ass from Atchafalaya <g>
Yep, there are quite a few of us here in Arkansas. ;)
Tim May
<bar...@nethere.net> wrote:
>
> You speak so appreciatively of the state I've adopted to run out the
> clock in. After traveling and working in most of the US, especially the
> deep south, I settled here (San Diego) in 1978. The steady influx of
> people has noticeably deteriorated the QOL in those last 25 years,
> however, and I almost enjoy hearing folks publicly besmirch the state in
> the hopes that it discourages more density.
>
I don't expect it will.
San Diego got way too crowded for me. As I said, I lived there from
1956 to '61. I visited several times after, from 1970 to the 90s...each
time it was getting more and more crowded. Then in 1994 my folks
returned to San Diego, specifically, Del Mar Heights, overlooking the
racetrack. I then spent more time in the area.
Whew. Every mesa either had been or was in the process of being scraped
so that condos and nearly-identical-looking pseudo-Spanish-style houses
could be built.
Where my folks lived there were scrupulously-enforced covenants
restricting the types of vegetation they could plant, forbidding the
parking of cars in their driveways overnight, and so on. A tinhorn
dictator martinet would come by to inform them of violations.
(These covenants are of course constitutional, as they are contracts.
My point is that they are for control freaks more anxious to keep
property values rising than they are for people who actually want to
live and enjoy their homes.)
If I had to live in San Diego County, I expect I'd have to live out as
far as Ramona or Alpine to feel comfortable....or just bite the bullet
and live in a condo or apartment near the shore or harbor. Living in
one of the planned communities popping up all over would not be in the
cards for me.
But the climate is, of course, nearly perfect. And there are lots of
other reasons so many people are moving there.
As far as crowding goes, every place I have visited in the past couple
of decades has been getting crowded. I was at my 30th high school
reunion in northern Virginia a few years ago and the traffic jams were
astounding, worse than anything I've seen here in California. Likewise,
traffic was terrible in Miami, Austin, San Antonio, Phoenix, Portland,
Seattle, Albuquerque, etc.
I attribute this partly to increased overall population, but more to
several factors:
-- a dramatic increase in car ownership. Where in 1970 the average
household owned maybe one car (and sometimes not even that, of course),
nowadays everybody over aged 16 is in his own car...just about.
-- changes in employment and the distances to drive to reach
employment. Where in the 50s and 60s a lot of people lived close to
their jobs, which were often menial or labor-intensive, it's now more
common for people to drive 20-30 miles to get to a job. (Note that
liberal nonsense about "co-locating housing and corporations" doesn't
work, because people change jobs frequently. Meaning that the condo
once within walking distance of Cisco is now 20 miles away from the new
job at Apple.)
-- wives working. This almost doubled the number of commuting cars on
the roads in the 70s and 80s.
-- eating and entertainment habits. Where once the family tended to be
at home and eating at home after about 6 pm, except for occasional
"treats" at a restaurant or fast-food place, today many people eat many
or even most of their meals out of their houses. Each of the places I
mentioned above--Virgina, Texas, Florida, Oregon, California,
Arizona--has thousands of burger joints, night spots, bookstores, etc.,
where people swarm to. The "rush hour" is extended to 9 or 10 pm by
many of these evening drivers.
-- and then there are the various other driving trips which are common
now but which were uncommon in the 50s, 60s, and 70s: taking Suzy to
soccer practice, taking Johnny to karate class, and so on. The "soccer
moms" fill the roads at all hours of the day.
-- more single-person dwellings. Through divorce, separation, etc., and
through generall overall wealth, more people live alone. This accounts
for some fraction of all of the new condos and Spanish-style houses
being built on the scraped mesas of San Diego, for example.
In summary, a lot of trends mean a lot more houses have been built,
even compared to the population increase. And people are driving a lot
more--longer distances, more often. The highways were generally
laid-out in the 50s and 60s, in most places, and are over the
anticipated capacity.
(In my area, Santa Cruz, esssentially all traffic must travel down
Highway 1. The surface streets are not usable as alternatives, due to
the topography (ravines, mountains). And yet the highway, with two
lanes in each direction, was built as it is today in the early 1950s.
It was a pleasant drive up through about 1975. Today, it's gridlocked
for many hours each day, and even on a quiet Sunday it's crowded with
cars. A lot more people live in the area, a lot more of them have cars,
and they use them many times a day. Not much can be done about these
trends.)
Welcome to the modern, mobile world.
"Would you like fries with that?"
--Tim May
Rick Rendon
Must be the humidity.
Me, I'm in South Texas. Average afternoon highs this week at around 101, and
it's been raining on and off this week so add high humidity to the equation.
Heat indexes hovering around 108-112.
How do i cool off? Central air in house. Over sized unit for this size home.
And Ceiling fans in every bedroom.
Then again, having grown up here, i'm kinda used to it
Texan
"Lawrence Glickman" <lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:15okfv89d005kfjlo...@4ax.com...
>
> It is sweltering here in Chicago.
> At night, the temperature dips to acceptable levels, but it takes all
> night long for the house to lose its latent heat. Just when things
> are getting comfortable, the sun comes up and the heating begins all
> over again.
>
> Until I get my new air conditioner ( on order ) installed, I have come
> up with an easy way to keep cool.
>
> A bowl of water and a towel will do the job. Wet the towel in the
> bowl of water, hold it in front of fan to get it COLD, and then wipe
> your body down with it.
>
> I've been monitoring my body's core temperature and I've not moved
> into a danger zone. But each year many many people DIE from heat.
> The year before last, we lost 800+ people to heat-related trouble.
> There wasn't even room in the morgue for all the bodies, so
> air-conditioned trucks were brought in to store the bodies until
> burial.
>
> Another cheap and easy way to cool off is to just get in a cool
> shower, and _don't_ dry off. Let yourself air-cool/dry.
>
> In light of these easy steps, I can't imagine how/why City Services
> can't educate the general public on these EASY and free ways to beat
> the summer heat.
>
> Lg
>
Rick Rendon
on New Years, i was outside using the grill, in short sleeves and shorts :)
> |Never realized it could get so hot in Chicago.
>
> Just 2 Seasons in Chi
> Summer
> and
> Winter ;-\
>
Every Monday, i'm outside doing the yard work (OK, so we have a gardener to
do that, i still have to supervise) Temps in the morning start out at around
75 or so...and go up to maybe 101 or 103...currently it's 79, according to
NWS. (musta been that storm earlier, and the cold front passing though
texas)
>
> It doesn't take long for the vegitation to overgrow the property.
> Fighting that back is a a constant battle between Spring and Fall. If
> I ignore it for too long, it becomes an impossible task to dispose of
> it all. Trees, shrubs, gardens, grass, hedges, etc. So I -have- to
> go out there and brutalize the green stuff before it buries us alive.
Can't rightly recall what this particular product is called, but i bought it
some three years ago during one particularly hot summer. Its a bandana that
has a refreezeable gel sewn into it. I'll wet it down, stick it in the
freezer for awhile, then tie it around my neck to keep me cool. (Made the
mistake the first time of tieing it around my head!)
> I put a towel on my head the other day, and ran a cold water hose over
> it. That kept me alive until I finished 1 ( one ) shrub, and then it
> was time to come back in.
>
Ahh, no thanks. Did the east coast winters for a bit, some years ago when I
lived in DC. Then did north texas winters for a few years...I think i
preferred driving in DC during snow than DFW during snow...difference is
that it snows rarely in DFW so folks have no idea how to drive on it ;)
> Sure. Come up here in the winter when it is -40F and the wind is
> blowing at 20 to 30 mph. Not *quite* as bad as Bob G. has it, but you
> will be happy to _walk_ back to Texas to get away from it.
I'm happy in Texas no matter what the conditions. But i definitely prefer
North texas to South texas. But i won't get started about life on the border
>
Mach Twain
>
> It doesn't take long for the vegitation to overgrow the property.
> Fighting that back is a a constant battle between Spring and Fall. If
> I ignore it for too long, it becomes an impossible task to dispose of
> it all. Trees, shrubs, gardens, grass, hedges, etc. So I -have- to
> go out there and brutalize the green stuff before it buries us alive.
>
Let it grow, burrow beneath where it's cooler. Shade and wind. Sleep
outside.
Mach Twain
rick...@yahoo.com
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:00:41 -0500, Lawrence Glickman
> <lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >It is sweltering here in Chicago.
> >At night, the temperature dips to acceptable levels, but it takes all
> >night long for the house to lose its latent heat. Just when things
> >are getting comfortable, the sun comes up and the heating begins all
> >over again.
Larry, this week's forecast in the Dallas area:
Today. Partly cloudy. A slight chance of showers and
thunderstorms this afternoon.
Highs in the upper 90s. South winds 5 to 10 mph.
Chance of rain less than 20 percent.
Tonight. Partly cloudy. Lows in the mid 70s.
South winds 5 to 10 mph.
Independence day. Partly cloudy. Highs in the upper 90s.
South winds around 10 mph.
Friday night. Partly cloudy. Lows in the mid 70s.
Saturday. Partly cloudy. A slight chance of showers and
thunderstorms in the afternoon. Highs in the upper 90s.
Chance of rain less than 20 percent.
Saturday night. Partly cloudy. Lows in the mid 70s.
Sunday. Partly cloudy. A slight chance of showers and
thunderstorms in the afternoon. Highs in the upper 90s.
Monday. Partly cloudy. Lows in the mid 70s and highs
in the upper 90s.
Tuesday. Partly cloudy. Lows in the upper 70s and
highs near 100.
Wednesday. Partly cloudy. Lows in the upper 70s and
highs 100 to 105.
Rick
Halcitron
>Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
>Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 08:10:39 GMT
>Never realized it could get so hot in Chicago.
>Must be the humidity.
>Me, I'm in South Texas. Average afternoon highs this week at around 101, and
>it's been raining on and off this week so add high humidity to the equation.
>Heat indexes hovering around 108-112.
>
>How do i cool off? Central air in house. Over sized unit for this size home.
>And Ceiling fans in every bedroom.
>
>Then again, having grown up here, i'm kinda used to it
>
>Texan
I try to keep my windows open, so I can acclimatize to the changing seasons. I
run fans and drink fluids. I avoid the AC, until the temperature gets above 89
or 95. I even turned off the pilot light on my heater. Watch the incandescent
lamps you use, they can be warm.
Right now, I try to avoid working on the west side of the house from 2pm to
7pm, when it is hottest. I try to do ouside work from 6am to Noon in Summer.
As the Fall approaches, I close windows more, but don't light the heater, until
mid to late December, and run it til Feb-March. In winter I keep windows open
about 1/2 inch, to allow fresh air exchange.
caveat lector
Halcitron misc.survivalism
Check your six and know when to duck.
NRA Member since 2002
The Law of the Land, is the weapon in your hand.
Smith & Wesson starts where the Bill of Rights stop.
Mach Twain
> Cold water. There is Zero excuse for *heat related deaths* as long as
> there is cold water available at the tap. Even if it isn't cold, turn
> a cheap fan on a wet towel, and then you have *cold.*
I've shivered uncontrollably in 110 deg. heat when wet down in a breeze.
Do you happen to have a masonry wall on your south or west side?
Sleeping next to these can bake you until 4 AM. A 2" thick blue foam
board glued on inside will help. You can tape/finish it like drywall,
but it's not as durable.
Mach Twain
Ignoramus17834
wind. Feels warm! I spent time outside between 3:20 and 7:40pm, first
moving stuff around the yard, then walking with the kid to the nearby
festivities (which were complete crap). Prior to that I drove a lot
with my windows open. On our way there, we stopped by the mulberry
tree and ate lots of mulberries. Very enjoyable life out here in
Chicago suburbs.
i
Tim May
Glickman <lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
> My new a.c. and furnace won't be installed for about another.....2 or
> 3 weeks? In the meantime, I have devised *survival strategy.* And
> they -all- involve water. No water? I'm dead.
You've been kvetching about either the hot or the cold or the niggers
for several years now. Either do something about these problems or shut
the fuck up.
--Tim May
Sue
You've been kvetching about either welfare "negroes", government
employees or women for several years now. Either do something about
these problems or shut the fuck up.
Sue
Sue
<lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>TIM.
>
>just shut the fuck up period.
>
>Children should be seen, not heard.
Sorry, Lawrence. I left out the Jews. Given a little more thought I
probably could have come up with an extremely long list. I suppose
one could say everyone but the great Mr. May.
Sue
>
>Lg
rick...@yahoo.com
wrote:
>On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 21:12:31 -0700, Tim May
Uh, Sue, it should have read, "start KILLING them, or shut the
fuck up."
Rick Bowen
TSRA Life Member
NRA Member
DILLIGAF?
Sue
I thought that was a given. :o)
Sue
Mach Twain
>
> Maybe we will get lucky, and Tubby will eat an M-80 with the fuse lit
> tomorrow.
>
> I admit that it is unlikely, but HOPE springs eternal ;-)))
>
They don't make M-80's like they used to. Used to be they were like a
1/4 stick of dynamite, but now they ain't much more than a 2"
firecracker. No, no, please..... no EMT stories!
Mach Twain
Don
> called "Siver Salutes." They were M-80s, the real thing.
Just bought 2 boxes of *Silver Salutes* last week, they are now called
M-88's.
Pretty weak compared to the M-88s and Cherrybombs of the ol' days.
Mach Twain
>>Years ago, passing through Georgia, I bought an entire box of what was
>>called "Siver Salutes." They were M-80s, the real thing.
>
>
> Just bought 2 boxes of *Silver Salutes* last week, they are now called
> M-88's.
> Pretty weak compared to the M-88s and Cherrybombs of the ol' days.
>
>
I rember the old M-80s and cherry bombs as about equal in power, just
different shapes. The great part was that the fuses went off under
water. I wasn't there, but I can imagine it: <flush> one one
thousand... two one thous..... the confusion as all the toilets in the
building turned into bidets
Mach Twain
Don
"Mach Twain" <mach...@coldmail.com> wrote in message
news:3F09D436...@coldmail.com...
Sorry for the typo, I meant M-80 in the last sentence.
As a kid we sometimes dipped the cherrybombs in melted candle wax and rolled
them in BB's
A little shrapnel would tear the hell out of a bush.....
I heard of people taping M-80's to sliding glass doors on houses and
windshields of cars....
Gunner
Its been said..ahum..ah..er...that if one flushs a 1/4 pound of
calcium carbide down the terlet, 5 minutes before the long fused
cherry bomb, one can lift the manhole covers all around the school.
So I heard. Somewhere.
Gunner
"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs
erniegalts
wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:45:53 -0700, Bart Bailey <bar...@nethere.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:00:41 -0500, Lawrence Glickman
>><lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>It is sweltering here in Chicago.
>>>At night, the temperature dips to acceptable levels, but it takes all
>>>night long for the house to lose its latent heat. Just when things
>>>are getting comfortable, the sun comes up and the heating begins all
>>>over again.
>>>
>>>Until I get my new air conditioner ( on order ) installed, I have come
>>>up with an easy way to keep cool.
>>>
>>>A bowl of water and a towel will do the job. Wet the towel in the
>>>bowl of water, hold it in front of fan to get it COLD, and then wipe
>>>your body down with it.
>>>
>>>I've been monitoring my body's core temperature and I've not moved
>>>into a danger zone.
>>
>>Do you jab a thermometer into your liver like the coroner does,
>>or how do you get a core temp?
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Another cheap and easy way to cool off is to just get in a cool
>>>shower, and _don't_ dry off. Let yourself air-cool/dry.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Another cooling procedure is the get on a long route air conditioned
>>transit, and take a magazine.
>>Our Trolley is nice and cool and the entire end to end ride can consume
>>over an hour each way. I take an mp3 player, some snacks, and a canteen,
>>and can kill most of the hot part of the day with a couple round trips.
>>
>>Bart
>
>Not much of a hobby..but hey..different strokes for different folks....
Does anyone here want to suggest how Gunner might find his "core
temperature"....Hey, not all at once, group!
erniegalts
>
>
>Gunner
>
>Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
>of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli
erniegalts
wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:50:55 -0500, Lawrence Glickman
><lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>>On 26 Jun 2003 03:36:04 GMT, Ignoramus5278
>><ignora...@NOSPAM.5278.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>|To the contrary. I am enjoying wonderful weather here 25 miles west of
>>|Chicago. 96 degrees, not even very humid. I walk to train for 40
>>|minutes in each direction every day, even though I could drive. I like
>>|being warm. This afternoon I finished building my generator shed (will
>>|be used for other stuff as well). Working in this kind of weather is
>>|invigorating.
>>|
>>|I never use AC in my truck, AC is for wimps.
>>|
>>|A tip about working in such weather: I take a very old towel and tie
>>|it on my head, like the ragheads do. Works great, it absorbs sweat and
>>|cools me. I look like a pirate though.
>>|
>>|i
>>
>>Oh, well, I have a cardiovascular problem that puts me at risk in heat
>>and cold. Most if not all of the people who died from heat the summer
>>before last had this or a similar condition.
>>
>>My point is, that for older people who NEED to get rid of heat, there
>>is nothing quite like cool water and a fan to do the job. Wet some
>>towels, wrap them on, and sit in front of the fan. Or, just get in a
>>tub of cool water with yer clothes ON, and then air-dry, preferably in
>>front of a fan. I did that yesterday. Saved my bleeding Life it did
>>! Of course, I took my wallet outa my pocket first, and a couple
>>other things ;-\
>>
>>Lg
>
>Many of the meds used in treatment of cardio-vascular disease, and the
>disease itself, make patients EXTREMELY sensitive to changes in
>temperature and in great danger when in warm to hot temps. Some of the
>drugs are diuretics used in various blood thinners, and others are beta
>blockers, which require normal blood salinity/h20 levels to pass through
>cell walls.
>Every summer in hot spells, hundreds of the elderly die of heat
>prostration, kidney failure etc etc.
>
>My 47yr old slim and trim Ex has not only a cardio vascular problem
>(several actually), but also has Factor V /Leiden, a blood disorder. She
>MUST keep her fluid levels up, and she must remain out of the heat for
>extended periods. She has found that Gatoraid helps, though the
>potassium level is a bit higher than is proper for her disorder. I
>believe there have been a number of "poor man" substitutes for Gatoraid
>posted here on MS over the years.
Would think so, but unless you are using a lot of it and think that
you are capable of compounding it, might be a good idea to stick to
the commercial product.
Of course, these days, who is going to advise otherwise?
Especially when people such as yourself lie about others whatever we
say?
erniegalts
<lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 21:54:57 GMT, "Rick Rendon" <rre...@stx.rr.com>
>wrote:
>
>snips for brevity
>
>|I'm happy in Texas no matter what the conditions. But i definitely prefer
>|North texas to South texas. But i won't get started about life on the border
>
>The garden hose turned on a head towel will chill you off right away.
>Feels like you've just dived into a swimming pool. Of course,
>everything you're wearing from head to toe is going to get -soaked-,
>but so what?
>
>Then there is the cool/cold shower, or the cool/cold bath. What can
>be better than that? Lounging in a cool tub? Don't people in cities
>have bathtubs? Maybe not.
>
>When I lived in 1 apartment years ago there was a communal bathroom.
>So I guess some people can't lounge in a tub of cool water. But then
>there is the wet towel *trick,* so I still don't get it, why some
>people let themselves cook to death. Is it that they can't afford a
>fan? Don't have electricity? Don't have running water? I don't get
>it. But I live about 1 mile from the cemetery where they interred
>about 500 of the 800+ corpses from the summer before, because of heat
>stroke. I would like to interview them to see exactly what the
>circumstances they were in at the time that caused their demise, but
>I'm pretty sure they wouldn't answer.
>
>Lg
Probably the same thing that tends to kill people in hot desert
environments. It doesn't take much water loss to interfere with brain
activity.
For instance, consider the following advice for motorbike riders:
-----------------------------
"Return of the Mummy
Oct 02 '01 (Updated Nov 19 '02)
The Bottom Line Drink water to ride safely
Ever get your motor runnin', head down the highway, and a couple of
hours later do something REALLY STUPID? Later at the diner did you sit
down and wonder, "Why did I ever do THAT?" It might have been
dehydration.
When you are dehydrated, your blood literally starts getting thicker.
It gets harder to push through the miles of tiny little capillaries
that feed oxygen and sugar to your brain. Without food and air, the
brain starts getting a bit muzzy and the decision-making ability
experiences a severe fall-off. This is REALLY BAD when it happens at
60 mph on a motorcycle.
In addition to the reduced mental ability, dehydration also physically
slows your reaction time because dehydrated muscles just don't respond
as quickly as well-hydrated muscles.
But, as long as that nice cool breeze is blowing across you, you
probably feel pretty comfortable and don't notice the effects of
dehydration. But the reason that breeze feels so nice and cool is
because of all the water that it is evaporating from your skin (and
eventually the rest of you). Seems a bit of a catch-22.
A good rule to remember is: By the time you FEEL thirsty, you are
already dehydrated. . ."
Rest of article at:
<http://www.epinions.com/content_2216992900>
----------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose that people, especially older people, sitting in front of an
electric fan don't necessarily notice the increasing dehydration
either.
Following may be of interest:
HOW DEHYDRATION AFFECTS THE BODY
. . . " So how do you know if you are dehydrated? The following
fifteen signs may tell you that you have lost too much water,. If you
suffer from more than five of them, then you need to drink more water
and rehydrate yourself. . ."
<http://www.cell-free.com/dehydration.htm>
Lots more info on Google:
Searched the web for
effects of dehydration on mental ability
Results 11 - 20 of about 18,100. Search took 0.34 seconds
erniegalts
charles krin
<lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 06:20:59 GMT, erniegalts
><ernie...@bigpond.com.au> wrote:
>
>|A good rule to remember is: By the time you FEEL thirsty, you are
>|already dehydrated. . ."
>|
>|Rest of article at:
>|<http://www.epinions.com/content_2216992900>
>|----------------------------------------------------------------
>|
>|I suppose that people, especially older people, sitting in front of an
>|electric fan don't necessarily notice the increasing dehydration
>|either.
>
>Good URL. Thanks.
>But you and others might want to know that it is possible to drink too
>much water, and die from it.
>
>What happens is, salt is removed from the body, and as a result, the
>brain begins to swell, and in some cases to the point where the victim
>dies from the swelling.
>
>I just read an article about this in the News recently.
>Their advice ( doctor's ) is to trust your instincts.
>
>Hundreds die every year from -over- hydration.
>
>Lg
cite please?
I've been in the business for quite a while, in various areas of the
country...and have been practicing full time emergency medicine in one
of the hottest, most humid areas of the country...
and with the exception of folks with certain psychotic problems, (or
maybe drowning victims)...few folks die of over hydration.
While there are some medical problems (and medication side effects)
that can cause a loss of salt, most folks who have a problem with
hyponatremia (low levels of sodium in the body) actually suffer from a
retention of free water.
The brain swells because the water migrates across the cell membrane
to try to equalize the fluid pressure on both sides. When you try to
replenish the sodium concentration too fast, the sodium is drawn
across the cell membrane by a more active method. As a result, more
water is drawn across the membrane before things finish stabilizing,
which is what causes the swelling.
ck
country doc in louisiana
(no fancy sayings right now)
erniegalts
<lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:48:03 GMT, charles krin <ck...@iamerica.net>
>wrote:
>
>|On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 07:35:13 -0500, Lawrence Glickman
>|<lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>|
>|>On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 06:20:59 GMT, erniegalts
>|><ernie...@bigpond.com.au> wrote:
>|>
>|>|A good rule to remember is: By the time you FEEL thirsty, you are
>|>|already dehydrated. . ."
>|>|
>|>|Rest of article at:
>|>|<http://www.epinions.com/content_2216992900>
>|>|----------------------------------------------------------------
>|>|
>|>|I suppose that people, especially older people, sitting in front of an
>|>|electric fan don't necessarily notice the increasing dehydration
>|>|either.
>|>
>|>Good URL. Thanks.
>|>But you and others might want to know that it is possible to drink too
>|>much water, and die from it.
>|>
>|>What happens is, salt is removed from the body, and as a result, the
>|>brain begins to swell, and in some cases to the point where the victim
>|>dies from the swelling.
>|>
>|>I just read an article about this in the News recently.
>|>Their advice ( doctor's ) is to trust your instincts.
Would think this would depend a lot on ones "instincts". The symptoms
of water depletion heat exhaustion and salt depletion heat exhaustion
are both overwhelming thirst.
As I use a lot of salt normally, have only suffered from salt
depletion heat exhaustion on one occasion when a teenager when out on
horseback driving cattle on a hot day. Was out of water for a couple
of hours, and when got back to water found didn't quench thirst, so
realized that it must be salt depletion not water depletion.
>|>
>|>Hundreds die every year from -over- hydration.
Dunno how many die from it, but have seen people become ill from
drinking large quantities of water, especially cold water, when very
thirsty.
Obviously the body tries to conserve electrolytes, but cannot tolerate
too much water either. So if someone drinks too much the body tries
to get rid of the water by urination, and since the kidneys aren't
100% efficient, inevitably lose more electrolytes.
Hasn't been that many weeks ago where read of a trial involving death
of a student who had been forced to drink large quantities of water in
some college initiation ritual. Thought was in a Drudge report but
cannot track it at the moment.
People seem to assume that things like water, salt, oxygen, etc are
"safe" in any amounts, but, as the song says "It ain't necessarily
so".
Consider hydrogen sulfide, H2S, the gas that has the odor of rotten
eggs. Has been used in "stink bombs". But is it harmless? Not if
the concentration is high enough.
[excerpt]
"Low-level exposures usually produce local eye and mucous membrane
irritation, while high-level exposures rapidly produce fatal systemic
toxicity.
Exposures of 700-800 ppm or greater usually result in death.
History: Presence of HS usually is apparent because of the
characteristic rotten egg smell. Concentrations above 150 ppm,
however, may overwhelm the olfactory nerve so that the victim may have
no warning of exposure. Exposures are subdivided into low-, high-, and
very high- level categories."
[Full article at]
<http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic258.htm>
erniegalts
>|>
>|>Lg
>|
>|cite please?
>|
>|I've been in the business for quite a while, in various areas of the
>|country...and have been practicing full time emergency medicine in one
>|of the hottest, most humid areas of the country...
>|
>|and with the exception of folks with certain psychotic problems, (or
>|maybe drowning victims)...few folks die of over hydration.
>|
>|While there are some medical problems (and medication side effects)
>|that can cause a loss of salt, most folks who have a problem with
>|hyponatremia (low levels of sodium in the body) actually suffer from a
>|retention of free water.
>|
>|The brain swells because the water migrates across the cell membrane
>|to try to equalize the fluid pressure on both sides. When you try to
>|replenish the sodium concentration too fast, the sodium is drawn
>|across the cell membrane by a more active method. As a result, more
>|water is drawn across the membrane before things finish stabilizing,
>|which is what causes the swelling.
>|
>|ck
>|country doc in louisiana
>|(no fancy sayings right now)
>
>Oh Dearie Me,
>
>I knew I should have saved that article.
>Here now I do a web search, and if I find it, I post the entire thing
>along with the URL:
>================================================================
>
>Are you drinking too much water?
>(Filed: 04/06/2003)
>
>
>
>Exercise experts now say we should stop worrying about dehydration,
>says Peta Bee
>
>
>Ask any gym member to name the essential items no kit bag should be
>without and most will say a bottle of water. Like stretching to avoid
>muscle strains, avoiding dehydration is considered a basic rule of
>working-out.
>
>
>Easy does it: drinking too much water can cause dizziness and
>respiratory problems
>
>But according to researchers almost as many exercisers are putting
>their health at risk by over-consuming water as drinking too little.
>
>USA Track and Field, the governing body for athletics and running in
>America, has produced new guidelines urging anyone who jogs, cycles or
>power walks regularly not to take in huge amounts of water. Dr David
>Martin, an exercise physiologist at Georgia State University, who has
>studied the drinking habits of joggers, says the change in
>recommendations is long overdue.
>
>"We are very worried about the increasingly large group of people who
>are taking up running for the first time and who are told the party
>line: `Make sure you drink. You can't drink too much. Carry water with
>you or you will get dehydrated. Don't worry about the heat, just drink
>more.' But that's wrong wrong, wrong.''
>
>British experts agree. "Drinking water at every opportunity can cause
>serious problems, such as hyponatraemia or water intoxication," says
>Dr Dan Tunstall-Pedoe of St Bartholomew's Hospital in London and the
>medical director of the Flora London Marathon.
>
>"That leads to diluted sodium and other body salts, or electrolytes,
>in the blood, which can cause dizziness and respiratory problems. Some
>people collapse because of it, as happens quite frequently in the
>marathon.''
>
>Louise Sutton, a sports dietician and lecturer in health and exercise
>science at Leeds Metropolitan University, adds: "It is a common myth
>that you can't drink enough when you work out. In fact, it is
>relatively easy to overdo it with water.''
>
>Certainly, experts are not advocating a ban on work-out fluids. As a
>rule of thumb, it is accepted that the average adult loses about one
>litre of fluid a day through sweat and other bodily processes, which
>is the equivalent of four glasses of water, but those losses increase
>considerably during exercise. Working muscles generate about 20 times
>more heat than when they are inactive, which means that, in one hour
>of any endurance activity, you can expect to lose around a litre of
>fluid through sweat, and more in hot weather.
>
>Water acts as an essential internal cooling mechanism and failing to
>replace some of those losses will result in dehydration, possibly
>leading to heatstroke as body temperature soars. But the latest
>findings show that we don't need to drink as much as was once thought.
>Given our growing obsession with bottled water, dehydration is
>increasingly rare: sales of bottled water amounted to £1 billion for
>the first time last year. The Natural Mineral Water Information
>Service, which represents bottled water manufacturers, says there are
>more than 150 products on sale in the UK, many aimed at the health and
>fitness enthusiast. With a litre of fluid a day also provided by food
>in the average diet, it is far easier to drink too much than too
>little.
>
>When Dr Martin and his colleagues examined the causes of illnesses in
>fun-runners since 1985, they found 70 cases of hyponatraemia, far more
>than those who had suffered the effects of dehydration. Elite athletes
>such as Paula Radcliffe are less vulnerable, because they are moving
>too fast to drink too much.
>
>"People carry bottles of water when they run and some actually have
>water intoxication syndrome," Martin says. "They feel lethargic from
>drinking too much, not from running too hard.''
>
>So how much is it safe to sip? "Aim to consume about a quarter of a
>pint of fluid for every hour of exercise, which won't replace
>everything you lose through sweat, but will maintain a healthy fluid
>balance," advises Tunstall-Pedoe. "More than that is not really
>advisable, unless it is very hot.''
>
>For a simple way to ensure your fluid balance is healthy, the new
>guidelines suggest weighing yourself before and after exercise. Sutton
>agrees: "Any weight loss is not fat but fluid and you need to put it
>back.
>
>For every pound you lose after exercise, you should drink two medium
>glasses of water to replace it.''
>
>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/main.jhtml?xml=/health/2003/06/04/hwat04.xml
>
>============================================================
>
>Dear Doctor,
>
>There are 994,000 hits on the Web about drinking too much water.
>
>Lg
>Lg
>and...............
>Lg
Cognitive Dissident
"erniegalts" <ernie...@bigpond.com.au> wrote in message
news:rv66ivocudh3ip1cc...@4ax.com...
I think the adage you are searching for is 'The dose makes the poison'.
Curare is a deadly poison, but also a useful medication in minute amounts.
Digitalis (Foxglove) is also very toxic, but a useful heart medication in
tiny amounts. Vitamin A is essential for survival, but a chunk of Polar Bear
liver with thousands of units of it will kill you. And as this thread is
already discussing, even water can be bad for you in too great an amount.
Proportion is what determines whether anything is good or bad.
http://info.med.yale.edu/caim/umd/chemsafe/references/dose.html
erniegalts
Wasn't searching for it, but would agree with it, where drugs are
concerned anyway. However, AFIK, H2S has no therapeutic use.
Actually, was thinking more along the lines of how people often get in
trouble playing practical jokes when they don't realize that the
"joke" can be fatal in some circumstances.
erniegalts
charles krin
<lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>Oh Dearie Me,
>
>I knew I should have saved that article.
>Here now I do a web search, and if I find it, I post the entire thing
>along with the URL:
>================================================================
>
>Are you drinking too much water?
>(Filed: 04/06/2003)
did your server burp? you reposted that three times?
interesting article...I've checked the standard textbooks I have at
home without seeing anything like this...so I'll have to check that
web site.
I do know that in my practice (which includes doing electrolyte levels
on a fair number of folks), I am *NOT* seeing the level of
hyponatremia that is presented in this article.
charles krin
<lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 07:16:08 GMT, charles krin <ck...@iamerica.net>
>wrote:
>
>|did your server burp? you reposted that three times?
>|
>|interesting article...I've checked the standard textbooks I have at
>|home without seeing anything like this...so I'll have to check that
>|web site.
>|
>|I do know that in my practice (which includes doing electrolyte levels
>|on a fair number of folks), I am *NOT* seeing the level of
>|hyponatremia that is presented in this article.
>
>???
>
>I just read an article about some campers at Grand Canyon that had to
>be treated for this *condition.* Guess what...I can't remember the
>URL
I've read the article (both in your post and at the URL you
gave)...but I need to get with the local hospital and get my MedLine
subscription back, because I think that there are some interesting
*medical* articles around (including several from the Israelis and
from the US Army trips to Egypt for the Bright Star exercises in the
late 1980s that will have a significant bearing on the view point. I
do know that *a minimum* of 4 quarts a day has been recommended for
folks who have kidney stones (and that's presuming that they live/work
in temperate climates with available air conditioning. I do remember
that in the Central Texas area (Camp Bullis, near San Antonio, and
Fort Hood), the orders from the Surgeon General's office were for that
amount *plus* additional fluids with meals.
>
>|ck
>|country doc in louisiana
>|(no fancy sayings right now)
>
>The reason I made the post at all was because I thought that some
>people think it is OK to just keep swilling liquids when they are Hot
>as Hell. I thought I would present some *evidence* that this may not
>be a good idea. Some liquids yes, but not -swilling- like you see
>some people do in marathons and such.
>
>Lg
I'm betting in this case, that the folks who had the problem were just
drinking water without maintaining anything close to a decent
diet...It's really tough to imagine anyone in otherwise good health,
who is not on certain limited classes of medications, managing to get
water intoxicated short of about 4 gallons of free water per day...or
roughly four times as much as the usual recommendation.
David J. Hughes
There's an additional danger with HS.
While concentrations above 150 ppm will knock out the olfactory nerve
so quickly that you never smell it, much lower concentrations (5 to 10
ppm) will over a period of a few minutes desensitize the olfactory
nerves so that you don't notice an increase in the concentration.
In other words, you smell it, it stinks, but doesn't seem to be a
problem, then there's an increase in the concentration with no
observable increase in the stink. Suddenly, you are at a dangerous
concentration with no warning.
I've worked a lot with HS, both pure and mixed with other gases, in
high pressure tanks. I used either a supplied air respirator or a
self contained unit, with a safety man watching from a distance. It's
much too dangerous to mess around with unless you follow proper safety
precautions.
David Hughes
erniegalts
>I've worked a lot with HS, both pure and mixed with other gases, in c
>high pressure tanks. I used either a supplied air respirator or a
>self contained unit, with a safety man watching from a distance. It's
>much too dangerous to mess around with unless you follow proper safety
>precautions.
>
>David Hughes
Must admit that I haven't, but thanks for the very interesting info,
and from what I know about this very toxic gas will agree with all
that you say.
However, just as a matter of curiosity, can you tell us when and why
you were exposed to this extremely deadly gas?
I will, and have, argued with you on many issues, but also agree on
what you say on others.
This attitude is pretty usual in most parts of the world. However,
isn't it interesting how some Americans can switch so quickly in
accepting and hating others?
At one time, people seemed to "stick together" on "misc.survivalism",
and many supported "Gunner" when he had problems, including me.
However, these days he seems to want to hate others, and accuse them
of being "self-confessed pedophile".
Isn't it strange at that there are so many attacks on people outside
the USA, whatever their citizenship?
Tends to make one wonder about their politics, doesn't it?
Why should some hate others so much? ---And why should some others
want to support them?
AFIK, Sue hasn't been in the military, but I could be wrong.
Doubt if "Myal" has been in the US military either.
But if this is the case, why should both of them want to lie about me
when it comes to Christianity or truth?
Both have lied about me, maybe they will lie about you as well.
If they do, don't expect me to explain it. I cannot even understand
why either Sue or Myal want to lie about me.
Yet both seem to be doing so.
Would think Myal would have better sense, but one never knows, does
one.?
erniegalts
erniegalts
<davidjh...@netzero.net> wrote:
Again, very interesting, believe what you are saying, but would you
be allowed to tell us why?
Military experiment of some sort, perhaps?
erniegalts
>
>David Hughes
Gunner
<davidjh...@netzero.net> wrote:
HS has an additional danger...its heavier than air, and may
concentrate in hollows in the ground and in low spots. This is a very
common hazard here in the oil fields and every year a few people
ignore the warnings and die as a result.
There are various electronic and chemical sensors available and in
common use. For my hunting trips, where I pass through certain areas
with high concentrations of HS, I keep a litmus paper type sensor on
the dash. It quickly changes color if its subjected to HS, and the
more color change, the faster and darker the color changes, which
means keep right on driving your ass the hell out of there.
David J. Hughes
Oh, my goodness, no. I'm spent many years in the petroleum industry.
One area is corrosion control in "sour gas" (gas or oil having a
concentration of H2S above 5 ppm) wells and lines.
Testing is done in a laboratory, where the conditions present in the
well or pipeline are simulated.
For example, one set of tests were for a very high H2S concentration
at the bottom of a 18,000' (5.5 Km) well.
8500 psi, 450 F, 30 % H2S, 20 % CO2, 5 % H20. (232 C, 578
atmospheres, 58.6 Mpascal, 598 Kg/cm*cm).
An aggressively corrosive environment. Eats unprotected mild steel at
a rate of mm's per day.
We tested alloy, protective paints and coatings, passivating
chemistries, anodic and cathodic protection systems, etc., to find
ways to produce from this type of well safely.
We were dealing with high pressures and temperatures, gas/liquid
systems that are both toxic and corrosive, at a minimum.
You make a stupid mistake, not only can you die, but you could take a
lot of people with you.
So you take meticulous safety precautions.
> erniegalts
>
>>David Hughes
>
>
David Hughes
David J. Hughes
It's also flammable, and makes a pretty good fuel/air explosive.
Of course the concentration needed is 15 to 30 %, much higher than the
500 ppm needed to be lethal.
It produces internal hydrogen blistering in steel, severely weakening
its structure, and does NASTY things to normally corrosion resistant
stainless steels.
It aggressively attacks many elastomers, damaging gaskets, seals and
seats.
And it has other nasty properties and capabilities.
(I used to give the mandatory annual H2S safety training classes <G>)
David Hughes
Gunner
<davidjh...@netzero.net> wrote:
Indeed it does!
>
>(I used to give the mandatory annual H2S safety training classes <G>)
>
And I used to take the manditory annual H2S classes <G>
>David Hughes
Gunner, living in the middle of the Kern River/Sunset Oil fields
erniegalts
<davidjh...@netzero.net> wrote:
Um, will have to disagree on this point, David, as Merck Index
monograph 4695 says
"Explosive limits when mixed with air: lower limit 4.3% by vol. upper
limit 46% by vol."
"vol." = "volume", of course. Unfortunately, the Merck Index of Drugs
and Chemicals is not available online as far as I know, but this is
what my 9th edition says.
If anyone wants to verify it, the Merck Index can usually be found in
the reference section of most large libraries, and should be in any
university library.
>It produces internal hydrogen blistering in steel, severely weakening
>its structure, and does NASTY things to normally corrosion resistant
>stainless steels.
>It aggressively attacks many elastomers, damaging gaskets, seals and
>seats.
>
>And it has other nasty properties and capabilities.
Haven't check this, but since you are usually accurate on such things
will take your word for it.
However, did think should bring up the question of explosive limits in
air.
Although would agree that if one is in an atmosphere that contains
from 4.3% to 46% H2S, the threat of explosion is probably the least of
their worries. :-)
Um, so which of us is "right" here? I am quoting from the 9th
edition of the Merck Index of Drugs and Chemicals, subtitled "An
Encyclopedia of Chemicals and Drugs" Published by Merck and Co, Inc.
9th edition 1976. Library of Congress Catalogue Card Number
76-27231., ISBN Number 911910-26-3. Printed the U.S.A.
Of course, perhaps subsequent research as redefined the explosive
limits. Does anyone on the group have the current edition?
Or perhaps David can tell us the source of his info?
It is possible for anyone to be mistaken about anything. Even Ray
Keller may be "mistaken" in believing that I am a "self-confessed
pedophile".
Of course, if he cannot quote a post to prove it, then he is an
obvious liar. Same applies to others who make the accusation, of
course.
erniegalts
erniegalts
wrote:
H2S is has an unmistakable smell, even at parts per million
concentration, and you have to rely on litmus paper, Gunner?
All that litmus paper will tell you is whether there is some acidic
vapor in the atmosphere, not what it is, and there are more sensitive
pH papers than the old "litmus paper" anyway.
From memory, some better indicators of H2S, in drinking water at
least.
However, since you seem determined to accuse me of being a
"self-confessed criminal" I see no particular reason to provide you
with any advice whatsoever at this point.
Which is one reason why I haven't bothered to answer your question on
the stability of MS tabs.
erniegalts
David J. Hughes
My bad, your absolute numbers are correct for "open cup ignition"
values. I was using the rough values for an effective fuel/air explosive.
What's the difference? A 9 % H2S FAE is a slow moving fireball.
A 35 % one is similar. Either will lift the roof off the building.
A 20% one is fast, still only a low explosive, with little "shatter"
capabilities, but will fling the roof a 1/2 mile, blow the walls off
the foundation, throw glass shards from the windows hundreds of feet.
erniegalts
<davidjh...@netzero.net> wrote:
OK David, fair enough, was just using the info had at hand. Wasn't
trying to accuse you of being a liar or even mistaken.
However, if we are talking about the accusation that I am a
"self-confessed pedophile" that is a very different matter, of course.
Obviously, as long as anyone on misc.survivalism continues to make
this accusation, I will be forced, in self-defense, to discredit them
an all possible ways.
Am sure that you can appreciate this.
Even though I don't know your exact religion, or whether you are
married or have relatives, I would assume that you would resent anyone
claiming that you were a "self confessed pedophile" or even a "self
confessed criminal" of any other sort.
Isn't it interesting that Gunner is threatening on an international
newsgroups to slowly dismember me, and kill me, with a broken beer
glass over a very minor insult to a friend, and also seems to be
trying to get me, wife, and pets injured or killed by accusations of
pedophilia?
He and his friends obviously have a lot of hatred for me. Perhaps I
should keep pointing out that this seems to have started when I
pointed out that the National Rifle Association was lying about
conditions in Australia?
At one time, he said in a post or an email [forget which] that the
organization had admitted their error and apologized for their
statement.
At the time, I took his word for this.
However, he didn't offer any "proof" and I didn't demand any.
However, he has now accused me of being a "admitted pedophile" so
questions of exact words and "proof" obviously become very important.
As am sure you know, have been on the group for some time. Have
argued various points with you and others, even Glickman, but few of
you seem to have hated me enough to accuse me of being as "self
confessed pedophile" which is, of course a felony offense.
Gunner and some of his friends have felt the need to do so. One can
only wonder why, but I can see a possible answer.
erniegalts