Battery backup at home -- actual test
Stormin Mormon
I have a marine battery in my home. Connected to a 750 watt
inverter.
Figure it's a power backup for some lights and fans, in case of a
power cut. It wasn't strong enough to run my last furnace. And
the new
one has a circuit board. I can't get a straight answer from the
manufacturer, if it will run on modified sine. But, that couple
hours
of lights and fans sure will help in case of a power cut.
The float charger is on all the time. So, it's all charged up and
ready to go. With the power cut in Buffalo, it did occur to me to
check the battery. Of course, it's full charge. But I ought to
also
check the water level. The water was low, took about 30 ounces to
top
it up. I used distilled water, not tap water.
Just for the last thing to do, I decided to try the inverter.
Grabbed
a lamp that was near by, and plugged it into the inverter. All I
got
for my trouble was about 1/2 second feeble squeal from the low
battery
alarm on the inverter.
Some further testing. The float charger was plugged in. Each time
I
walked past the battery, I could see the power light on, and the
clips
on the battery. So, what's wrong? Well, the charger was plugged
onto a
smaller battery pack right next to the marine battery. The clips
on
the marine battery led to a lighter socket, which I had clipped
on for
some other reason.
The marine battery was checked with my cheap VOM from Harbor
Freight.
It read 5.48 volts, which is totally unforgivable. Anything under
10
is really asking for trouble, and 11 is more like it. The other
battery pack (ten nicad cells from American Science and Surplus)
had
12 volts, but that wasn't at all what I wanted. I moved the float
charger to the marine battery, and will know tomorrow if it will
hold
a charge. The nicad pack does power my fluorescent lantern, which
is
nice to know.
The lesson is that just cause something looks fine, it maybe
isn't.
And that I need to do actual tests of equipment, not just figure
it's
probably OK. If I'd been doing a monthly "actual test" of the
inverter, I'd have found the low battery several months ago. That
lesson may have cost me a marine battery that won't come back to
charge.
Maybe tomorrow after church I test the gasoline power generator.
After
all, that hasn't been run since 2003. I keep thinking it should
be OK.
After all, it hasn't been used. Wonder what else of mine doesn't
work,
but I havn't found out, yet?
===============
October 19, 2006
After a couple days of having an automatic battery charger on, I
decided to see how long the battery would last. I charged the
dead
battery with an old 10 amp automatic charger. It was down to
about 3
ampere charge rate when I quit charging for the present test.
Down to
zero charge rate would have meant full charge.
Anyhow, the results are in. After using a Vector / Husky inverter
to
run a 75 watt light bulb for 14 hours, the inverter started to
squeal.
Which means the low battery. I checked, and my cheap Harbor
Fright VOM
said the battery was at 11.40 volts.
I put the charger back on, and it started at 10 amps, which is
about
as fast a start as I've ever seen. I'm used to seeing it start at
7.
So, now, I know it will last 14 hours with a 75 watt bulb. Of
course,
I'd try to use 12 volt appliances, sparingly, and low current
appliances like fluorescent lantern. But, it's nice to have some
backup power.
The generator did start, after several doses of ether sprayed
onto the
air cleaner. With a squirt of ether, the generator ran for part
of a
second. After doing that several times, it ran on carburetor.
Ron
Sounds like your float charger is cooking that battery to death.
with a 750 Watt inverter you need some serious battery reserve. Your
garden variety Marine battery aint gonna cut it.
Ron
Nick Hull
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The float charger is on all the time. So, it's all charged up and
> ready to go. With the power cut in Buffalo, it did occur to me to
> check the battery. Of course, it's full charge. But I ought to
> also
> check the water level. The water was low, took about 30 ounces to
> top
> it up. I used distilled water, not tap water.
You really need a 'smart' charger, it will prevent the water from
boiling away and unpleasant surprises.
Stormin Mormon
a couple years old, I ought to check the water more often.
--
Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.
"Nick Hull" <nh...@isp.com> wrote in message
news:nhull-DE9423....@dialupusa.usenetserver.com...
r2000...@hotmail.com
There are float chargers and standby chargers. There are (at least) 2
ways
to float charge a battery. The first is what I use on my primary gell
cells.
I have a (surplus, ie cheap) uA723 based power supply set to 13.67V.
The
gell cell has minimal, as in I can't easily measure it, current flowing
into it.
I also have some "Vector" chargers that monitors the battery voltage
and
only turns on when the battery voltage drops to around 13.5V. I say
around
because the exact trip point varries and is not fixed to better then
~0.2V.
I have several older gell cells that have been connected for several
years
with no apparent loss of capacity.
Most float chargers just apply enough voltage to insure a constant
current
flows into the battery, which will cook it fairly rapidly. The addition
of a shunt
regulator to clamp the voltage to a maximum of 13.67V will keep the
battery
charged but not boil the life away.
I check all of my gell cells twice a year by drawing 1/10 of the rated
Amp hour
capacity for 30 minutes and noting the battery voltage at the end of
the run. It
has been my experience that weak or suspect batteries will show a
signicicant
departure from their historical record.
It is sometimes possible to locate used, but good, gell cells from
alarm companies,
or computer UPS support companies.
Terry
Stormin Mormon
I'm reasonably sure you're correct. I'll have to schedule annual
water level check for the battery. Yes, a good quality float
charger would likely do much better.
--
Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.
"Ron" <r...@bugoff.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.12.31....@bugoff.net...
r2000...@hotmail.com
Stormin Mormon wrote:
> The float charger is the 14.99 special from Harbor Freight. So,
> I'm reasonably sure you're correct. I'll have to schedule annual
> water level check for the battery. Yes, a good quality float
> charger would likely do much better.
>
> --
>
> Christopher A. Young
> You can't shout down a troll.
> You have to starve them.
> .
>
trouble
early enough so you can save the battery. I check the battery in our
Civic about
every other month, though I do let it slide during the winter months.
There are several battery rejuvinator pages that detail how to use step
pulses
of DC to de-sulphite a battery. Our friend who has a farm with
significant battery
backup has used several of the simpler designs to restore batteries
that sure
tested bad. I still don't believe it, but if it works who am I to
argue.
Terry
Terry
Terryc
> The float charger is the 14.99 special from Harbor Freight. So,
> I'm reasonably sure you're correct. I'll have to schedule annual
> water level check for the battery. Yes, a good quality float
> charger would likely do much better.
ANNUAL?, you must be fuscking joking. Monthly at least, fortnightly is
better.
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.
"Terryc" <newsones...@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:45984ad7$0$1032$61c6...@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au...
Too_Many_Tools
> I also have some "Vector" chargers that monitors the battery voltage
> and
> only turns on when the battery voltage drops to around 13.5V. I say
> around
> because the exact trip point varries and is not fixed to better then
> ~0.2V.
> I have several older gell cells that have been connected for several
> years
> with no apparent loss of capacity.
>
I would monitor your "Vector" chargers.
I have had two different Vector chargers misfunction.
One was on gel cells and caused the gel cells to melt, smoke and if I
had not intervened they would likely would have burned my house down.
The other boiled a new large marine battery dry ruining it.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
As a matter of habit, doing it the first of the month is convenient for
me.
I also make a policy to take an auto battery out of service when 50% of
its warranty is over. I use them in a number of applications around the
ranch and if for some reason I need a replacement in the vehicles, one
is always on hand.
TMT
Nick Hull
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I also make a policy to take an auto battery out of service when 50% of
> its warranty is over. I use them in a number of applications around the
> ranch and if for some reason I need a replacement in the vehicles, one
> is always on hand.
That would be rough, I buy blems with a 30 day warranty and use them for
about 3 years. I do replace them at the first sign of trouble.
Terryc
> No, I'm not fuskind josking.
your money.
I'd advise other people not to rely on annual checks.
>
Stormin Mormon
would take longer to recharge than the original small cells. But
it should also run longer in case of a power cut.
Car batteries are designed for high amperage, shallow discharges.
A marine trolling battery would give you better service. They
are designed for deeper discharges.
--
Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.
"Bart Bailey" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:4599a543...@bart.spawar.mil...
>
> re:UPS etc
> I got a used 450w UPS at a thrift store recently
> and the internal 12v (two sixes in series) seems to have lost
capacity,
> been thinking of replacing them with a SLA car battery of more
ampacity,
> other than the power limitations of the internal inverter
circuit, is
> there any reason it won't work?
>
> --
>
> Bart
Too_Many_Tools
> That would be rough, I buy blems with a 30 day warranty and use them for
> about 3 years. I do replace them at the first sign of trouble.
>
That should be no problem..a lead acid battery if properly maintained
will last a LONG time.
In a vehicle environment which is considered to be a very tough
environment, a battery has a shorter life than sitting in your house.
The real secret is to never let them become fully discharged...just one
time can kill a lead acid battery because of the sulphation that
occurs.
A deep discharge lead acid battery is best for survival use....car
batteries are different since they are made for frequent but shallow
discharging. A deep discharge battery is designed to be discharged
almost completely...and in a survival situation where you may not have
the capability or opportunity to charge your battery every amp will
count.
TMT
r2000...@hotmail.com
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> >
> > That would be rough, I buy blems with a 30 day warranty and use them for
> > about 3 years. I do replace them at the first sign of trouble.
> >
>
> That should be no problem..a lead acid battery if properly maintained
> will last a LONG time.
>
> In a vehicle environment which is considered to be a very tough
> environment, a battery has a shorter life than sitting in your house.
> The real secret is to never let them become fully discharged...just one
> time can kill a lead acid battery because of the sulphation that
> occurs.
>
> A deep discharge lead acid battery is best for survival use....car
> batteries are different since they are made for frequent but shallow
> discharging. A deep discharge battery is designed to be discharged
> almost completely...and in a survival situation where you may not have
> the capability or opportunity to charge your battery every amp will
> count.
>
> TMT
One of my gell cells is 10 years old and still has over 90% of it
initial capacity.
As you stress one sure way to kill a lead acid battery is to discharge
it below
some critical level. I use 10.8V as the end point but I have seen
commercial
standby systems that use 10V and some use 11V. For my important backup
batteries I use a opamp level senser to sound a sonalert when the
voltage hits
11V, then at 10.8V I have another opamp to pulse a SCR to trip the
breaker.
Terry
mgke...@yahoo.com
Stormin Mormon wrote:
> October 14, 2006
> I have a marine battery in my home. Connected to a 750 watt
> inverter.
> Figure it's a power backup for some lights and fans, in case of a
My new Rheem gas furnace (1/3 HP motor) seems to runs fine with my
Honda EU3000i generator. One thing that I have been thinking about for
awhile, but haven't really looked into yet, is a portable, natural-gas
heater for emergencies. They don't require any electrical power.
RadicalModerate
> I got a used 450w UPS at a thrift store recently
> and the internal 12v (two sixes in series) seems to have lost capacity,
> been thinking of replacing them with a SLA car battery of more ampacity,
> other than the power limitations of the internal inverter circuit, is
> there any reason it won't work?
You have to take into consideration the capacity of the UPS' charger;
a car battery will draw more charging current than the UPS charger
was designed to provide.
One of three things will happen:
1) It will take a very long time to charge the battery
2) The battery might not charge because the UPS charger shut down
3) UPS charger may fail altogether (open or short a diode).
In addition the heatsinking of the inverter transistors is designed around
the expected run time of the UPS with its stock batteries;
for longer runtimes you may need to add a small fan and/or make a larger
heatsink.
A 450VA UPS is generally intended to carry you thru power "sags"
(flickers) and for outages, give you enough time to save and close your
files and do a graceful shutdown - 5-10 minutes depending on what kind of
display you use.
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: address IS Valid.
Stormin Mormon
fine.
Portable natural gas heater? I'd love to see a link for that.
Most NG heaters are wall mount, or hard piped in.
--
Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.
<mgke...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1167679519.0...@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
mgke...@yahoo.com
Stormin Mormon wrote:
> I've run some old furnaces on 2200 watts, so 3k should be just
> fine.
>
> Portable natural gas heater? I'd love to see a link for that.
> Most NG heaters are wall mount, or hard piped in.
Here are a couple of links:
http://www.heatershop.com/radiant_heater_125_rn.html
http://www.mrheater.com/productdetails.asp?catid=57
Or, you can do a Google using a phrase like NATURAL GAS PORTABLE
HEATER, for instance.
Obviously, there would be some safety considerations and you'd have to
leave a window open. However, it does look like these are "CSA
certified" and have a built in "automatic safety tip over device". I
don't know whether I would run one of these when your asleep.
To install one of these, my assumption is that you would have to put a
"T" in your gas line in your furnace room and then hook it to a long
hose.
hot-ham-a...@hotmail.com
For a cabin, I would use a through wall propane furnace for heat. Some
don't use an electric blower, or the electric blower is optional, so
will work OK without power. Also, a high use area such as the kitchen
could use a propane lamp such as the Paulin sold by Lehman's.
A 100W solar panel, and one or two trolling motor batteries should
power the shortwave, 2M radio, the HF, and even a laptop. Clusters of
LEDs could proide some low power lighting as well.
BTW, my trolling motor battery is Tango Uniform.
Too_Many_Tools
BATTERY powered CO monitor.
When one is using alternative heating sources and generators that might
end up being unexpected CO threats, I consider it to be cheap
insurance.
TMT
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.
<mgke...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1167778153....@n51g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Stormin Mormon
at someone's house last year, and it does put out heat. Looks
like if it was properly installed (and some free space in front
of it) should be safe.
I've seen dance troops wearing the same clothes, but what's a
tango uniform? Nylon with plenty of ventilation?
--
Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.
<hot-ham-a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167788272.0...@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
billybob169
> Harbor Freight makes some wall mount propane heaters. I saw one
> at someone's house last year, and it does put out heat. Looks
> like if it was properly installed (and some free space in front
> of it) should be safe.
>
> I've seen dance troops wearing the same clothes, but what's a
> tango uniform? Nylon with plenty of ventilation?
>
Tango Uniform = Tits Up = broken.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Usene...@the-domain-in.sig
Pa...@robiecreek.net says...
> Stormin Mormon wrote:
> > Harbor Freight makes some wall mount propane heaters. I saw one
> > at someone's house last year, and it does put out heat. Looks
> > like if it was properly installed (and some free space in front
> > of it) should be safe.
> >
> > I've seen dance troops wearing the same clothes, but what's a
> > tango uniform? Nylon with plenty of ventilation?
> Tango Uniform = Tits Up = broken.
No, you are mistaken. "Tango Uniform" is when some terrorists
want to upgrade, and decide to all wear the same colour shirts.
--
Want Freebies?
http://www.TheFreeStuffList.com/
Check The Free Stuff List
hot-ham-a...@hotmail.com
Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Harbor Freight makes some wall mount propane heaters. I saw one
> at someone's house last year, and it does put out heat. Looks
> like if it was properly installed (and some free space in front
> of it) should be safe.
>
> I've seen dance troops wearing the same clothes, but what's a
> tango uniform? Nylon with plenty of ventilation?
Ummm, it's roughly the equivalent of "belly up."
hot-ham-a...@hotmail.com
Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Harbor Freight makes some wall mount propane heaters. I saw one
> at someone's house last year, and it does put out heat. Looks
> like if it was properly installed (and some free space in front
> of it) should be safe.
>
> I've seen dance troops wearing the same clothes, but what's a
> tango uniform? Nylon with plenty of ventilation?
Ummm, it's roughly the equivalent of "face down."