U.S. Marines preparing for historic first — command by British
Halcitron
By Gordon Lubold and C. Mark Brinkley
CAMP BULLRUSH, Kuwait — If bullets start flying in Iraq, a British general
will be calling the shots for the 2,100 members of the U.S. 15th Marine
Expeditionary Unit.
For the first time ever, U.S. Marines will go into battle under the command of
British Royal Ma-rines.
The move appears to be a goodwill gesture to the Brits for being such good
blokes. The United States has leaned heavily on the British government in
building a united coalition against Saddam Hussein.
"Politically, it’s very good," said Lt. Rob Driscoll, a spokesman for the
British Navy in this dust-blown camp. "But it’s a huge tick in the box of the
British Marines."
There are difficulties. The two use different weapons and vehicles, and there
have been some adjustment problems for the Americans eating the British chow.
(Fish heads and rice drew par-ticular contempt).
And then of course there is the language problem.
For instance, the Brits refer to their berets as "berries" and trucks are
lorries. And on the radios, where the U.S. Marines say "over" to indicate a
break in the transmission, the Royal Marines are likely to give a reply and end
it with "ovo."
"It's hard to understand sometimes," said Gunnery Sgt. Faustino Lopez Jr., of
Corpus Christi, Texas. "You can't make out if it's an O or an R."
The Marine Corps and the Royal Marines have long historical ties, and they
regularly train and deploy alongside each other. For example, the Marine Corps
trades one of its officers for one from the Royal Marines in a two-year officer
training exchange program, and a commando unit — roughly equivalent to a
battalion — assisted coalition forces in Afghanistan.
That unit, 45 Commando — remains there, so the Royal Marines are using the
15th MEU as the missing leg to their 3 Commando Brigade, Driscoll said.
"The 15th MEU has actually been attached to us as fourth command," he said.
"It’s quite an his-torical event."
According to the Royal Marine historian, retired Maj. Mark Bentinck, it’s
unprecedented.
"There may have been a brief time in Korea," he said. "But that wasn’t
planned, it didn’t last long and it involved very few men, perhaps a company.
Nothing like this."
The 3 Commando, led by British Royal Marine Brig. Gen. James Dutton, will in
turn fall under I Marine Expeditionary Force, the Camp Pendleton-based Marine
unit in charge of overall Marine operations in Kuwait.
But since late January when they arrived here, the Royal Marines have had
little to do.
"We’re just kicking dust," said Lt. Mike Postgate, 21, a Royal Marine who
visited Bullrush last week from the neighboring site, Camp Gibraltar, where
many Royal Marines live.
The Royal Marines are the British Navy’s tough amphibious infantry. Their
recruiting motto: "99.99 percent need not apply."
While there are differences, each is slowly finding out more about the other as
the long days pass here. For example, the lowest ranking Royal Marines are
called, simply enough, "Marine." The next step up is Lance Corporal. In the
U.S. Marine Corps, there are two ranks below lance corporal, private and
private first class.
Another difference: Officers can join the Royal Marines at age 18 as long as
they can get se-lected, whereas U.S. Marine officers must graduate from
college.
Sgt. Patrick Love, a radio operator from Dallas, was floored when a Royal
Marine told him that the British often sign up for initial contracts of 20
years or more, though they aren't always locked in and usually can leave the
service early. In contrast, the basic U.S. Marine enlistment must be re-newed
every four years.
Otherwise, their missions are similar. Royal Marines are a light infantry that
can deploy on the drop of a shilling. In mid-January, four days after being
told they had to leave for Kuwait, the Royal Marines were headed here. That’s
in stark contrast to the British Army, which received notice on the same day
and only just arrived here in early March, Driscoll said.
The Royal Marines packed their kits light and brought little to the fight in
the way of logistics re-sources and equipment. The brigade brought only a
handful of their tracked combat vehicles, Land Rovers, two kinds of utility
helicopters, and artillery.
The Royal Marines are providing logistics support to the MEU, cooking the two
hot meals U.S. Marines are eating here each day.
Such a change in field fare normally would be a huge bonus for the Americans,
but many U.S. Marines are begging instead for their own prepackaged,
often-disliked field rations known as Meals Ready to Eat or MREs.
The Brits are providing a lot of yogurt, bread and potatoes, along with a
variety of meats and sausages. The fish heads and rice entree drew groans from
the U.S. troops during a recent dinner, and the other meats have earned
colorful, often coarse nicknames.
"It tastes like deer meat," said Lance Cpl. Daymond Geer, an infantryman with
Battalion Landing Team 2/1 from Sacramento, Calif. To be fair, though, Geer
said he loves the pineapple juice.
The differences are enough to bring out the entrepreneur in many of the
British, who are quick to visit the American camps.
"They like to trade, a lot," said Cpl. Jonathan Cumming, an infantryman with
Battalion Landing Team 2/1 from Mission Viejo, Calif. Typically up for grabs
are British berets and T-shirts bearing the logos of various Royal Marine
units.
Usually, the Brits want the U.S. Marine poncho liners and fighting knives,
deals the U.S. Marines are loath to make.
But a deal can be struck, especially when a British head scarf is on the table.
Issued to the Royal Marines, the wraps are similar to the traditional headgear
worn by Muslims in many of the nearby towns and are perfect for blocking the
dust and wind.
"This is the best invention they ever made," said Sgt. Randon Stevenson, a
radio operator for the 15th MEU's artillery battery from Indianapolis, who
traded away a $5 pocketknife for his scarf. "Half the time, I'm wrapped up like
an old lady."
--
Lubold and Brinkley, writers with Gannett's Marine Corps Times newspaper, are
helping to cover the conflict with Iraq for Gannett News Service.
© 2004, Gannett News Service
http://content.gannettonline.com/gns/iraq/20030311-18024.shtml
At least it ain't the U.N.
:/
caveat lector
Halcitron misc.survivalism alt.survival
"Failing to prepare.... Is preparing to fail."
NRA Member since 2002
The Law of the Land, is the weapon in your hand.
Smith & Wesson starts where the Bill of Rights stop.
Bill French
"Halcitron" <halc...@aol.comhatespam> wrote in message
> For the first time ever, U.S. Marines will go into battle under the
command of
> British Royal Ma-rines.
If this is true, it will be a great improvement as the USMC are nototious
for fucking things up.
Read the history of this bullshiting corp.
Bill
The Rifleman
heard the highly true and accurate phrase
" The British soldier is the best trained professional soldier in the world,
Led by the worst officers in the world" Oh boy I feel sorry for the USMC
tonight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Next our food is unbearable, for gods sake if you wish to father any
children do not eat the dumpling in Butterscotch sauce
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British forces head scarfs are called shemaghs and can be obtained mail
order very cheaply, I have about three.
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Speaking as an ex Light Infantry Serjeant I am really pissed off when the
description of the RM as Light Inf, cos they are not, nor will ever be, they
are web footed heavy infantry.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Otherwise, their missions are similar. Royal Marines are a light infantry
that
> can deploy on the drop of a shilling. In mid-January, four days after
being
> told they had to leave for Kuwait, the Royal Marines were headed here.
That's
> in stark contrast to the British Army, which received notice on the same
day
> and only just arrived here in early March, Driscoll said.
The above quote is utter bollocks, because the SAS were their first and they
are army.( and they are not LI cos we are fussy who we let in :o))
JP
Jeff McCann
"JP" <admin7(nospam)@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1T69c.6623$Q45.3407@fed1read02...
All,
>It is a sad day indeed when America surrenders her military sovereignty
to sup at the table laid down by >the European Union. I would like to
remind all; that these American Marines will no longer be defending
>Americas Constitution or way of life. But instead defending Britain and
the entire new European state, it's >constitution and oligarchy. And
they will be defending this European empire with American blood and
>American tax dollars.
British troops have fought under American command and American troops
have fought under British command many times before. Sovereignty has
absolutely nothing to do with it. What do you suppose all those troops
stationed in Germany, England and elsewhere under NATO command were
defending? This is much ado about nothing. Responsible American
commanders won't let American troops be commanded to do anything stupid
or wrong. Remember when the British general told his American
commander, Wes Clark, that he wasn't going to carry out a stupid order
to possibly tangle with the Russians over an airfield? It works both
ways.
Jeff
Gunner
Just think of all the notorious and fun things the jarheads will teach
the Brits. The brits will teach them to drink with a pinky in the
air..and the marines will teach them lechry, debauchery and all manner
of evil things they can bring home to the UK when the time is up.
Should be interesting
Gunner
--
The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words;
on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.
--James D. Nicoll
Bob Peterson
we have to have a single command system. This is in general a good thing.
keep in mind that at one time in the Balkans an Iraqi general was in charge
of the UN forces which included us forces.
"Jeff McCann" <NoS...@NoThanks.Com> wrote in message
news:Ah79c.47683$PY1.8...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
JP
It's correct that British troops have fought under US command, and so have
Canadian. However Britain is now a part of the EU - soon to be serving
under the socialist EU constitution with countries that are not allies of
America. In the past Britain was not yoked to other nations and had some
form of autonomy, in the affairs of their state.
What is historic about our Marines serving under British command is that
they will be doing so during and after Britain has agreed to abide to a
Socialist European Union Constitution with countries that are not our Allies
and have pledged themselves against Americas very existence as a nation.
My thinking is that America has lost sight of it's constitutional heritage,
has turned its fine USMC into a mercenary force, and is continuing its march
towards a socialist state.
Respectfully,
JP
"Jeff McCann" <NoS...@NoThanks.Com> wrote in message
news:Ah79c.47683$PY1.8...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
JP
In the Balkans under the orders of Clinton, America bombed and killed it's
allies from W.W.II while helping the Ethnic Albanians regain their
"homeland". These ethnic Albanians are Muslim and decidedly anti-American.
America entered the Balkans for political expediency and nothing else.
America bent its knee to the Muslims and the favor was returned on 9-11.
Because in general pandering to your enemies and/or tolerating their abuses
is more often than not seen as a sign of weakness.
From
"Bob Peterson" <peter...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:c4302d$2duql5$1...@ID-179783.news.uni-berlin.de...
Tim May
<peter...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> I gotta agree with Jeff on this one. If we want our allies to help us out,
> we have to have a single command system. This is in general a good thing.
You need killing the way those who put our troops under New World Order
command do.
--Tim May
Jim Dauven
You have never worked with Her Royal Majesties Marines?
As a ground pounder I would rather work for one of Her Royal Magisties
Marine Generals or Colonels than some U.S. Air Force Zoomie with stars
on his shoulders.
Of all the U.S. Armed Force it is the Air Force that is the most fucked
up when it comes to ground combat.
In the battle of the I Drang valley, (We were soldiers) the biggest
killer
of U.S. Infantrymen was a good dammed zoomie in a F100 that dropped two
1000 lb bombs on the Battalion Aid station, killing 75 men in a tenth
of a second and wounding about 100 more. (All the battalions aid men)
Thoes god dammed zoomies think they are a fucking civilian corporation.
The Independent
Jim Dauven
Jim Dauven wrote:
>
> Let me guess.....
>
> You have never worked with Her Royal Majesties Marines?
I screwed up here is should be Majesty's.
The Rifleman
> Light Infantry?, sorry, no disrespect Rifleman but the RM are NOT LI, we
are Commando's, we invented the word Commando's and we taught the world
about Commando's and as for *light* jesus, you never carried a RM's bergen
then being twice the weight of a standard infantrymans pack and we have to
take our test by running that pack thirty odd miles in under eight hours,
more if your section leader fucks up. The yomp is a very visible test of
the CTC but is only the tip, traiining takes two years in total.
>
That was the point I made, that booties are not LI nor ever will be :o), We
like people who like trees to hid in not seaweed, We wear boots not
flippers, and we live off the land for months at a time without resupply
when on recce duty, the booties need an aircraft carrier or a klepper boat
to function:o) Oh and when we are in pompey we go after the girls :o)
The Rifleman
"JP" <admin7(nospam)@cox.net> wrote in message news:1T69c.6623$Q45.3407@fed1read02...
All,It is a sad day indeed when America surrenders her military sovereignty to sup at the table laid down by the European Union. I would like to remind all; that these American Marines will no longer be defending Americas Constitution or way of life. But instead defending Britain and the entire new European state, it’s constitution and oligarchy. And they will be defending this European empire with American blood and American tax dollars.
Erm its the Brit SAS/ SBS/ RM and Paras fighting for american interests in Afghanistan, and half the brit army fighting for Bush in Iraq, You aint defending us we are defending you, thats why Dubya asked for extra brit troops to deploy to Afghanistan.
The Rifleman
> British troops have fought under American command and American troops
> have fought under British command many times before. Sovereignty has
> absolutely nothing to do with it. What do you suppose all those troops
> stationed in Germany, England and elsewhere under NATO command were
> defending? This is much ado about nothing. Responsible American
> commanders won't let American troops be commanded to do anything stupid
> or wrong. Remember when the British general told his American
> commander, Wes Clark, that he wasn't going to carry out a stupid order
> to possibly tangle with the Russians over an airfield? It works both
> ways.
>
business ties.
The Rifleman
battle, by christ nothing could stop us then.
The Rifleman
Seals = SBS
Rangers = SAS
LI = LI
We are one, real military men, doing the dirty work that other fuckers
baulk at.
Jim Dauven
of the them were just so so.
The United States had a variety of good Generals.
George C Marshall (Roosevelt's Military Advisor and probably one of the
greatest strategic/political military thinkers of
all time. Eisenhowere's boss and Mentor. The only
other World figure that may have been like Marshall
would have been Cardinal Riechleu of Louie the XIV)
Eisenhower (more of logistics man and great at detailed
planning)
Patton (Tactical genius but not a strategic planer)
Omar Bradley (Great strategic thinker, used to do complex calculus
problems in his head for fun)
Mark Clark ( Kind of a cross between Bradley and Patton)
Matthew B. Ridgeway (A cross between Bradley and Eisenhower and probably
the Best all around corps level commander)
Douglas MacArthur (one of the greatest but with personality of a
starving Junk Yard Dog)
German Generals
Karl Von Rundstedt ( There best )
Hasso Von Manteuffel ( A toss up with Von Rundstedt)
Heinz Guderian ( There best Panzer general Their Patton)
Kurt Student ( Not that well known in west but a brilliant
and innovative general)
Erwin Rommel ( Great Divisional and Corps commander but may
not
have been that great as a Army or Theater
commander)
Joseph Dietrich ( Could have been one of their greats but was a
pathological butcher)
The general weakness of the entire German General Staff was they were
notable weakness of logistics planners. The continuously engaged in
operations that could not be supported properly. They planned on
quick victories but when it came to a war of attrition they were
continuously bogged down by lack of supplies.
(Even at the beginning of WW II 80% of german military non rail
transport was horse drawn wagons. The german army could not and did
not have the capacity to move men and material rapidly from the rail
head to the front lines. The reliance on Horses to move men and
materiel to the front also caused the Germans to have to move vast
cubic meters of forage for their horses to the front, which further
reduced their capability to move war material.
However to be fair, The Germans never intended the war to last more than
a year, and they didn't put there industry on war emergency until 1942.
You see logistics wasn't Hitler's strong suit either and he never under
stood the complexities and the necisities of roads and trucks,
transportation control, maintenance and rebuild depots near the front,
rear area food, ammo, fuel, depots etc. in the conduct of modern
armored warfare.
The Independent
Gunner
Indeed. Though..most of the good ones are dead.
Gunner
"As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object will,
through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to Floyds Knobs,
Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case the object will
tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota).
The smaller mass of the object, the higher the probability.
Therefore, disassembled parts, particularly small ones,
of machines disappear much faster than assembled machines."
Greg Dermer: rec.crafts.metalworking
Jim Dauven
I think I would disagree some what at comparing the Rangers with the
SAS. I think the SAS work in considerably smaller units than the
Rangers. Unless it has changed with the Rangers now being part of the
special Operations Command, The standard Ranger combat employment is a
platoon level. The Ranger units are also heavier armed with a lot
of light and medium machine guns 2 per platoon and one medium machine
gun per platoon. The Ranger platoon also carries two anti tank weapons
per platoon as well as single javelin. Further more the Ranger platoon
can have one .50 cal MG and one Mk19 automatic Grenade launcher.
As I don't know the structure of the SAS for sure, I think that the
rangers typically operate in larger units with much more fire power and
support than the SAS.
The Independent
smaller units (10 to 12 man teams)
Gunner
The Rifleman
> Aww Rifleman that cut deep....
>
> and al we ever heard about was the LI Daisy chains
>
> ;-D
>
> AO
Our Marching pace is only eceeeded by our wrist actions :o)
>
The Rifleman
> A little interesting aside about him though, being a navy boxer, he ended
up getting broken down to PO for 6 months because a kind German airman in an
escape bid from the BB that picked him up, stabbed him in the leg and my
grandad broke his jaw and fractured his skull with his bare hands. Not
done for a rating to hit an officer whichever side of the bloody fence he's
on.
>
> They ended up friends after the war...
>
> AO
>
I remember asking my dad about how come he had so many german friends, turns
out he wa in charge of a low risk POW camp darn sarf and got pally with
them, he to madwe life long friendships with his ex wehrmacht prisoners, I
once aked him about what happened to any SS guys he came across pretending
to be ordinary german troops, he said " Oh they went away", I ask where? "
he said he did not know but he never got notified of their arrival at any
new camp which was the norm, Little accidents I believe.
Myal
news:c46tb5$oqv$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk:
Maybe for the guys trying to pretend , but my Granddad was captured along
with his regiment , they didnt pretend to be anything other than SS , but
they knew what was going on and didnt make trouble , hell , theyd managed
to get sent to the western front after years of fighting on the eastern
front , they was happy enough to be prisoners .The russians didnt manage to
keep many prisoners alaive somehow.....