Goats & Electric Fence?
Ronny TX
keeping them inside a pasture that is surrounded only by an electric
fence? Just thinking 1/4 to less than 1/2 acre pen and maybe 2 to 6
goats or so that,by and by,would be of various ages because of date of
birth or the age they were when bought.
And what of the fence charger itself? Would a solar powered one be
better than one that is hooked in with your homes electrical wiring? Is
that safer? I just don't like the idea of hooking up that out in the
open wire that could be hit by lightening and that go back to my home.
And yeah,I know such would be grounded;but then how failsafe is that
against possible damage to your homes breaker box and wiring? Just
asking and searching, perhaps mostly,for the safer/safest way to do
something like this.
Also wondering if anyone in here has ever raised,butchered and eaten
goat meat? It's been years since I did a bit of that. Raised just a
few,neighbor helped me butcher them and put the meat in our freezer. On
the young goats-that was the best tasting most tender meat I've ever
eaten. Nothing against beef; :-) but would have to say that young goat
meat was better tasting and more tender than any beef I've ever eaten.
Don Bruder
slee...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:
> Just wondering if anyone in here has experience raising goats and
> keeping them inside a pasture that is surrounded only by an electric
> fence?
Forget it. If you're going to try to fence them, use mesh, preferably
buried at least 6 inches deep, and definitely no less than 4 feet,
preferably 5, maybe even 6 high. Otherwise, you'll be constantly chasing
loose goats unless you do an electric that's close enough to being mesh
due to there being so many wires so close together. And don't forget
that goats love to climb on things - including each other and other
livestock. It's some sort of goat-ish "king of the hill" thing, I
guess...
One of the funniest darn things I've ever seen was a billy we kept on
the ranch as a self-propelled weed trimmer. He had this habit of
climbing a stack of hay bales so he could jump to the chicken coop roof,
then step down and across onto the back of an old belgian mare who
napped in the shadow in front of the coop during the hot part of the
day. He apparently thought she was a designated goat scenic overlook or
something :) Her response? Turn around and look at goat, snort and flick
her ears at it once, then go back to napping! They don't call the
drafters "gentle giants" for nothing :)
> Just thinking 1/4 to less than 1/2 acre pen and maybe 2 to 6
More than one or two, and they should have that eaten down to bare dirt
in a week or less, I'd guesstimate. Depending on the vegetation, maybe
two weeks.
I'd guess you plan on feeding them hay or pellets, 'cause they're going
to literally eat themselves out of house and home in short order in a
pen that small unless it's packed "wall to wall and treetop tall" with
*VERY* fast-growing edibles.
> And what of the fence charger itself? Would a solar powered one be
> better than one that is hooked in with your homes electrical wiring? Is
> that safer?
Six of one, half a dozen of the other. The decent makers have been
"tuning" those gizmos for years. I haven't heard of a lightning-related
problem (beyond the fence wire and/or charger getting blasted to
garbage) with a properly installed and grounded charger in years. They
do get hit from time to time, yes. But I've never heard of them doing
anything worse than turning into a puddle of slag. If mounted near
flammables, that's a possible fire risk, but beyond that, taking a hit
to the fence/charger usually means nothing more hazardous than a trip to
town to get a new charger when it's discovered that the old one is
toast.
> Also wondering if anyone in here has ever raised,butchered and eaten
> goat meat? It's been years since I did a bit of that. Raised just a
> few,neighbor helped me butcher them and put the meat in our freezer. On
> the young goats-that was the best tasting most tender meat I've ever
> eaten. Nothing against beef; :-) but would have to say that young goat
> meat was better tasting and more tender than any beef I've ever eaten.
Clearly, opinions differ... After my one experience with goat, you
couldn't pay me to eat it again if there was anything else available.
Driest, toughest, nastiest-tasting crap I've ever voluntarily put in my
mouth. (And let's don't even "go there" as far as goat's milk. No matter
how carefully it was collected, or from what breed, I've never had
goat's milk that didn't make me gag from the overwhelming stench/taste
of goat that it had.)
--
Don Bruder - dak...@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
Peter Huebner
@webtv.net says...
> Just wondering if anyone in here has experience raising goats and
> keeping them inside a pasture that is surrounded only by an electric
> fence? Just thinking 1/4 to less than 1/2 acre pen and maybe 2 to 6
> goats or so that,by and by,would be of various ages because of date of
> birth or the age they were when bought.
You'll need good, tight and HOT fences. Once the goats are trained to
it, they'll be fine with it. A friend of mine used to dairy goats and
they used to bash 3' battens into the ground and run two or three
hotwires- i.i.r.c. the lowest one was 6-8" from the ground, and then
they had two wires higher up. Top wire was less than 2' off the ground.
I on the other hand used to farm (up to 1000) fibre goats who get
handled a lot less and so they are a lot more independent and wild. I
used to use a conventional 7 wire fence with alternating hot and neutral
wires, and used battens to connect the neutral wires at about 2-3'
distance. That worked well in the main, except every now and then they
would excavate a tunnel under the fence somewhere :-) Well, this is very
rocky country, there's always a few handy plugging devices near by.
One possible approach to fence training goats is to shoot the
troublemakers (they teach all the others how to dive under a fence;
goats are VERY intelligent). That tends to leave you with the goats that
stay IN.
> And what of the fence charger itself? Would a solar powered one be
> better than one that is hooked in with your homes electrical wiring? Is
> that safer?
The biggest problem with those solar things are:
1 - do they have enough grunt
and 2 - a proper earth system. Just a single stake driven into the
ground any-old-place is just a very poor earth. I have a mains driven
unit in the leanto to the barn. It has an earth system comprising 6 @
6' stakes, driven into the ground all the way, about 10' apart and
connected to each other by a thick braided cable. *that* is a good earth
system (you can tell because I hear no clicking in the radio or in the
stereo when I turn it on), the phone line does not get less noisy when I
turn the fence off... and if something gets a belt, they know about it!
> I just don't like the idea of hooking up that out in the
> open wire that could be hit by lightening and that go back to my home.
> And yeah,I know such would be grounded;but then how failsafe is that
> against possible damage to your homes breaker box and wiring? Just
> asking and searching, perhaps mostly,for the safer/safest way to do
> something like this.
There is such a thing as a lightening arrester. I've never used mine,
though. I can tell you how to make one, if you really want to know. It's
surprisingly easy, no electrical knowledge or soldering involved (in the
making).
>
> Also wondering if anyone in here has ever raised,butchered and eaten
> goat meat? It's been years since I did a bit of that. Raised just a
> few,neighbor helped me butcher them and put the meat in our freezer. On
> the young goats-that was the best tasting most tender meat I've ever
> eaten. Nothing against beef; :-) but would have to say that young goat
> meat was better tasting and more tender than any beef I've ever eaten.
I do agree: it's lovely. If you do a google on this newsgroup you will
find a receipe for roast kid in sour cream sauce that I posted here some
months back :-)
cheers, -Peter
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
jtno...@yahoo.com
couldn't pay me to eat it again if there was anything else available.
Driest, toughest, nastiest-tasting crap I've ever voluntarily put in my
mouth. (And let's don't even "go there" as far as goat's milk. No
matter
how carefully it was collected, or from what breed, I've never had
goat's milk that didn't make me gag from the overwhelming stench/taste
of goat that it had.) (snip)
My experience was closer to Ron's with the meat, but not that good.
Waayyy better than lamb though. My Nubians gave the most creamy,
delicious milk I ever had. Made great homemade ice cream, and the
babies loved it. But it does relate to what you feed them. Good alfalfa
and spent beer grains from a nearby microbrewery (free for the hauling)
is what made it. I left the mowing to the billy I had for breeding. A
German shepherd (goatherd?) kept the peace and kept out the coyotes.
That dog also policed the fence for wannabe fugitives.-Jitney
Ronny TX
Group: misc.rural Date: Tue, Nov 1, 2005, 4:30am (CST+6) From:
dak...@sonic.net (Don Bruder)
slee...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:
Just wondering if anyone in here has experience raising goats and
keeping them inside a pasture that is surrounded only by an electric
fence?
Don:
Forget it. If you're going to try to fence them, use mesh, preferably
buried at least 6 inches deep, and definitely no less than 4 feet,
preferably 5, maybe even 6 high. Otherwise, you'll be constantly chasing
loose goats unless you do an electric that's close enough to being mesh
due to there being so many wires so close together. And don't forget
that goats love to climb on things - including each other and other
livestock. It's some sort of goat-ish "king of the hill" thing, I
guess...
Ronny10/31:
The only part about this I don't like is the digging part. :-) I dig as
little as possible since I got to middle age! LoL
You're right thought about the needed height of the fence. And I guess I
could put a mesh fence on metal posts and have that electrified? Or not
and maybe have a string of barbed wire at the top and bottom or both
that was? Just thinking, just throwing out possible ideas.
Onething I know is that I wouldn't want to be chasing goats that much or
anytime if possble! :-) Need to check a brothers goat lot too. He has a
lot with mesh wire fence and three billies in that to keep the grass and
brush down.
Don:
One of the funniest darn things I've ever seen was a billy we kept on
the ranch as a self-propelled weed trimmer. He had this habit of
climbing a stack of hay bales so he could jump to the chicken coop roof,
then step down and across onto the back of an old belgian mare who
napped in the shadow in front of the coop during the hot part of the
day. He apparently thought she was a designated goat scenic overlook or
something :) Her response? Turn around and look at goat, snort and flick
her ears at it once, then go back to napping! They don't call the
drafters "gentle giants" for nothing :)
Ronny10/31:
Gotta love some of the things that goats think up to do! :-) LoL The few
older nannies I've had now and then over the years all though they were
Queen of the place! LoL
Ronny:
Just thinking 1/4 to less than 1/2 acre pen and maybe 2 to 6
Don:
More than one or two, and they should have that eaten down to bare dirt
in a week or less, I'd guesstimate. Depending on the vegetation, maybe
two weeks.
I'd guess you plan on feeding them hay or pellets, 'cause they're going
to literally eat themselves out of house and home in short order in a
pen that small unless it's packed "wall to wall and treetop tall" with
*VERY* fast-growing edibles.
Ronny10/31:
Been a long time since I raised even a couple of nannies and their
babies here in NE Texas and that in a smaller lot than I'm thinking
about now. And it's true that such would not be enough in a dry year and
even at sometimes of the years here.
Would be interesting to try somethings on a half acre lot though. Rye
grass or wheat,turnips or all three planted in the fall for winter and
spring browsing. And in spring and early summer in a good year we have a
lot of bermuda pasture grass. Of course,that last grew so well,thick and
lush in my lots because it got the rain and was well fertilized by both
chicken and goat manure! LoL
And yeah I would have to feed them hay and dry grain at times. That all
of the time for a milking nanny or two. But my first consideration might
very well be just to buy around 4 small billy goats,castrate them and
then raise them up to butchering size. Like I say;just thinking things
out right now. And wondering if I could raise such and put them in the
freezer cheaper than I could buy beef out of the store?
Ronny:
And what of the fence charger itself? Would a solar powered one be
better than one that is hooked in with your homes electrical wiring? Is
that safer?
Don:
Six of one, half a dozen of the other. The decent makers have been
"tuning" those gizmos for years. I haven't heard of a lightning-related
problem (beyond the fence wire and/or charger getting blasted to
garbage) with a properly installed and grounded charger in years. They
do get hit from time to time, yes. But I've never heard of them doing
anything worse than turning into a puddle of slag. If mounted near
flammables, that's a possible fire risk, but beyond that, taking a hit
to the fence/charger usually means nothing more hazardous than a trip to
town to get a new charger when it's discovered that the old one is
toast.
Ronny10/31:
I do have one charger an aunt gave me after her and uncle stopped
raising cattle. Have to check it,check back and tell y'all what size it
is. Then work out whether it would be strong enough or not for what I'm
thinking about?
Ronny:
Also wondering if anyone in here has ever raised,butchered and eaten
goat meat? It's been years since I did a bit of that. Raised just a
few,neighbor helped me butcher them and put the meat in our freezer. On
the young goats-that was the best tasting most tender meat I've ever
eaten. Nothing against beef; :-) but would have to say that young goat
meat was better tasting and more tender than any beef I've ever eaten.
Don:
Clearly, opinions differ... After my one experience with goat, you
couldn't pay me to eat it again if there was anything else available.
Driest, toughest, nastiest-tasting crap I've ever voluntarily put in my
mouth.
Ronny10/31:
Somebody must of fed you some old billy goat that never had been fixed!
:-) And I have heard that those are really bad and strong tasting! LoL
Don:
(And let's don't even "go there" as far as goat's milk. No matter how
carefully it was collected, or from what breed, I've never had goat's
milk that didn't make me gag from the overwhelming stench/taste of goat
that it had.)
--
Don Bruder - dak...@sonic.net
Ronny10/31:
The 2 or 3 Nubian nannies I used to have produced good tasting milk. I
figure you got ahold of goat milk where the nanny(s) and billy(s) were
kept together. It's those randy billy goats that do stink to high
heaven! Whew! LoL But then when I needed a billy,I used to just borrow
my neighbors and take him back home after breeding time. So,no goaty
smell in the milk I had.
Ronny TX
no....@this.address (Peter Huebner)
@webtv.net says...
Just wondering if anyone in here has experience raising goats and
keeping them inside a pasture that is surrounded only by an electric
fence? Just thinking 1/4 to less than 1/2 acre pen and maybe 2 to 6
goats or so that,by and by,would be of various ages because of date of
birth or the age they were when bought.
Peter:
You'll need good, tight and HOT fences. Once the goats are trained to
it, they'll be fine with it. A friend of mine used to dairy goats and
they used to bash 3' battens into the ground and run two or three
hotwires- i.i.r.c. the lowest one was 6-8" from the ground, and then
they had two wires higher up. Top wire was less than 2' off the ground.
I on the other hand used to farm (up to 1000) fibre goats who get
handled a lot less and so they are a lot more independent and wild. I
used to use a conventional 7 wire fence with alternating hot and neutral
wires, and used battens to connect the neutral wires at about 2-3'
distance. That worked well in the main, except every now and then they
would excavate a tunnel under the fence somewhere :-) Well, this is very
rocky country, there's always a few handy plugging devices near by. One
possible approach to fence training goats is to shoot the troublemakers
(they teach all the others how to dive under a fence; goats are VERY
intelligent). That tends to leave you with the goats that stay IN.
Ronny10/31:
It just hit me Peter that I do have a small lot that has high,tight hog
type wire on three sides. Need to repair one side and fence in the 4th
side. And all this is connected to my small hay/general type barn. So
I'm thinking I could start the raising of 2 or 3 baby goats right there.
Then I could branch out into my much larger lot later on with the
fencing idea(s) like you've talked about here.
Mostly my idea is to just raise a few,2 or 3,baby goats up for meat.
Maybe a nanny or two later? The only thing I really have to consider a
lot though on the nanny goat part is that I would be tied down to
milking twice a day. Or maybe just once a day if I kept her babies on
her part of the day? Have to think on all that long and hard;but I do
love goat milk and I like the idea of producing my own milk.
Ronny:
And what of the fence charger itself? Would a solar powered one be
better than one that is hooked in with your homes electrical wiring? Is
that safer?
Peter:
The biggest problem with those solar things are: 1 - do they have enough
grunt
and 2 - a proper earth system. Just a single stake driven into the
ground any-old-place is just a very poor earth. I have a mains driven
unit in the leanto to the barn. It has an earth system comprising 6 @ 6'
stakes, driven into the ground all the way, about 10' apart and
connected to each other by a thick braided cable. *that* is a good earth
system (you can tell because I hear no clicking in the radio or in the
stereo when I turn it on), the phone line does not get less noisy when I
turn the fence off... and if something gets a belt, they know about it!
Ronny10/31:
A neighbor has most of our pasture rented and has some sort of solar
fence charger hooked up to one wire that goes around a lot of our
fences. Maybe I could see about running a wire off of his charger?! :-)
LoL
Ronny:
I just don't like the idea of hooking up that out in the open wire that
could be hit by lightening and that go back to my home. And yeah,I know
such would be grounded;but then how failsafe is that against possible
damage to your homes breaker box and wiring? Just asking and searching,
perhaps mostly,for the safer/safest way to do something like this.
Peter:
There is such a thing as a lightening arrester. I've never used mine,
though. I can tell you how to make one, if you really want to know. It's
surprisingly easy, no electrical knowledge or soldering involved (in the
making).
Ronny10/31:
Surely would like to know more about this.
Ronny:
Also wondering if anyone in here has ever raised,butchered and eaten
goat meat? It's been years since I did a bit of that. Raised just a
few,neighbor helped me butcher them and put the meat in our freezer. On
the young goats-that was the best tasting most tender meat I've ever
eaten. Nothing against beef; :-) but would have to say that young goat
meat was better tasting and more tender than any beef I've ever eaten.
Peter:
I do agree: it's lovely. If you do a google on this newsgroup you will
find a receipe for roast kid in sour cream sauce that I posted here some
months back :-)
cheers, -Peter
--
Ronny:
Ah Peter,you would be making me so hungry here if I hadn't of just made
scrambled eggs with chedder cheese, cream gravy and homemade biscuits
with sorgum syrup for my and my Mom's midnight supper! LoL
I will have to look up your recipe though!:-) Sounds way good!
Ronny TX
jtno...@yahoo.com
Don:
Clearly, opinions differ... After my one experience with goat, you
couldn't pay me to eat it again if there was anything else available.
Driest, toughest, nastiest-tasting crap I've ever voluntarily put in my
mouth. (And let's don't even "go there" as far as goat's milk. No matter
how carefully it was collected, or from what breed, I've never had
goat's milk that didn't make me gag from the overwhelming stench/taste
of goat that it had.) (snip)
Jitney:
My experience was closer to Ron's with the meat, but not that
good. Waayyy better than lamb though. My Nubians gave the most creamy,
delicious milk I ever had. Made great homemade ice cream, and the babies
loved it. But it does relate to what you feed them. Good alfalfa and
spent beer grains from a nearby microbrewery (free for the hauling) is
what made it. I left the mowing to the billy I had for breeding. A
German shepherd (goatherd?) kept the peace and kept out the coyotes.
That dog also policed the fence for wannabe fugitives.-Jitney
Ronny:
And I used to hear that cheese could not be made out of goat milk;but
then have seen places where other people say yes it can and I do love my
cheese! :-)
And I'm still thinking that at sometime somebody fed Don some old stinky
billy goat :-) and not meat from a young tender goat!
Thinking what I would feed a nanny goat or two? Used to feed the milking
ones just regular dairy feed and bermuda grass hay when that was needed.
And a good bit of the year they had fresh bermuda grass. Plus,I have
about 80 yards of brush on one fence row. Don't know how long that would
last;but there is a good bit of stuff in there that I know goats like.
Whole thing is maybe 6 foot wide by 80 yards long. In fall I have maybe
a 1/4 acre or so lot that I could grow things in like turnips, rye
grass,wheat and clover. Milo could be grown there in the early spring
and into summer. Maybe black eyed peas and such thoughout much of the
rest of the summer? Good place for growing such as long as we get the
needed rain.
And your mention of coyotes here has made me do some thinking. We do
have our coyotes and in the past they have come right up behind the
house to get at chickens. :-( Of course,can't really fault the beasts
for that,as chicken is good eatin'! LoL Still I'm concerned that coyotes
might try to get baby goats I would be raising? So that means I would
first need to put such in a tight lot of hog wire that I have out back.
Need to do some repair, replacing and adding on to that for small goats.
But then out neighbor also has a donkey out in our big pasture with his
heifers,so maybe that donkey would keep the coyotes away from out hay
barn and lots?
Ronny,just thinking on all of this and these things for right now and
enjoying it all. :-) {BG} Enjoying and appreciating all of the replies
too! :-)
Peter Huebner
@webtv.net says...
> Ronny10/31:
> It just hit me Peter that I do have a small lot that has high,tight hog
> type wire on three sides. Need to repair one side and fence in the 4th
> side. And all this is connected to my small hay/general type barn. So
> I'm thinking I could start the raising of 2 or 3 baby goats right there.
> Then I could branch out into my much larger lot later on with the
> fencing idea(s) like you've talked about here.
>
Ok, now we're talking turkey. Between this and what Don said ( I hadn't
even looked at your stocking rate to start with) I would say that
raising two-three kids is probably the way to go. Now the thing is - if
you start early, you never need a fence at all for them! You put a
collar on the goat, you run a chain with two swivels from the collar to
a little a-frame goat house and Bob's your uncle. While they're little,
you have to look a couple of times a day to make sure they haven't
tangled themselves up, but they get very good at it.
We keep three goats that way just to keep the public road verges clean
of weeds and blackberries on our farm. Once a week or so we shift the a-
frame ...
This is much more economical on feed usage and you get more of the
desired effect (mowed lawns) rather than having the stock run around in
a larger area where they will eat it all everywhere until there isn't
any left.
And raising little goats with a bottle is fun. Trouble is, they become
members of the family that way ...
By the way: stock troughs are death traps for little goats. Goats like
to jump up on things, little goats like nothing better than jumping up
on rocks; a cattle trough looks like a big rock from their eyelevel and
once they're in the drink they never get out again.
-P.
Peter Huebner
says...
> Driest, toughest, nastiest-tasting crap I've ever voluntarily put in my
> mouth. (And let's don't even "go there" as far as goat's milk. No matter
> how carefully it was collected, or from what breed, I've never had
> goat's milk that didn't make me gag from the overwhelming stench/taste
> of goat that it had.)
>
If it was dry and tough then it was done by a bad cook. If it was tangy
then it was old. I'm with you there, I won't eat goat that's older than
6-9 months, but the young ones, oh boy!
Nor, b.t.w. can I stand the milk, never mind what fine herbs and
pastures have gone into it. But goat *cheese* is right at the top of my
list. Goat camembert, goat feta, chevre salade ...
nicks...@ece.villanova.edu
>There is such a thing as a lightening arrester. I've never used mine,
>though. I can tell you how to make one, if you really want to know...
I'd like to know. PA deer fences have chokes in series, about 1' diameter
x 2' long with a 4" open stiff wire turn spacing. Maybe that's in series
with the charger, with a 1" spark gap to a ground on the fence side.
Nick
Andy
keeping them inside a pasture that is surrounded only by an electric
Andy replies:
I did an experiment with goats and electric fence once. Here's how
it
went.
I had a 3 sided pen with 4 feet chain link. The open side had a
single strand
of electric stretched across it (12 feet) at a height of about 2 feet,
and was
charged.
I put a mommy goat and her baby inside it, and watched from a
distance..
The mommy approached the fence and sensed that it was not to be
reckoned with.
She crowded the baby back into a corner as far away as she could.
Then she began to explore the hot wire. She determined that if she got
on her knees, she could work her way underneath it without a problem.
After doing so, she called the baby, gave him some instructions, and
the baby walked underneath........
So much for cheap fences....
I am afraid that even if you use multi strands, if
one single goat manages to figure it out, it will simply either show
or tell the others what to do..... Goats are smart.... You have to
be smarter........ good luck with that.
Andy
PS I tried it lower, and with a cat. Cat sensed a danger, jumped up
on the
top of the 4 foot fence and peed in my direction.
I tried it on a turkey. Tom didn't give a damn and
just walked on thru, a temporary shock putting a small
smile on his beak...... I think he liked it........
Neon John
>In article <14887-436...@storefull-3334.bay.webtv.net>,
> slee...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:
>
>> Just wondering if anyone in here has experience raising goats and
>> keeping them inside a pasture that is surrounded only by an electric
>> fence?
>
>Forget it. If you're going to try to fence them, use mesh, preferably
>buried at least 6 inches deep, and definitely no less than 4 feet,
>preferably 5, maybe even 6 high. Otherwise, you'll be constantly chasing
>loose goats unless you do an electric that's close enough to being mesh
>due to there being so many wires so close together. And don't forget
>that goats love to climb on things - including each other and other
>livestock. It's some sort of goat-ish "king of the hill" thing, I
>guess...
Not my experience. A few years ago I borrowed half a dozen goats from
a neighbor to clean off a briar-laden gulch. I moved them from patch
to patch in the gulch with a "portable" electric fence - two strands
of smooth wire on wire rod posts that I could pull up and move with
little effort. I didn't even bother to stretch the wire particularly
tight. Never had even one get out.
Now I did use a 15kv neon sign transformer to charge the fence. Seems
like some weed burner fence chargers have almost that much power.
I wonder if the misbehavior depends on the breed? No idea what these
were. Just "goats that love briars".
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Peter Huebner
nicks...@ece.villanova.edu says...
Yes, that's exactly how I know them. You make the choke by winding the
wire around, and tying it to, 2 or 3 bits of grooved untreated hardwood
and put it in the feed line. coil around 1-2 foot long, around 10-12"
diameter, spacing of the wire around 3 inches. Separate earth system for
the lightning diverter, well away from your actual fence earth, and you
set up a spark gap which is , like, a couple of bits of metal poking up
next to each other or at each other at around 1-2" distance, one
connected to the fence side of the coil, t'other to the 2nd earth
system.
Apparently lightening doesn't like to go around in circles ;-)
-P.
rot13 Kevin Miller
>Just wondering if anyone in here has experience raising goats and
>keeping them inside a pasture that is surrounded only by an electric
>fence? Just thinking 1/4 to less than 1/2 acre pen and maybe 2 to 6
>goats or so that,by and by,would be of various ages because of date of
>birth or the age they were when bought.
We have 4 to 12 Nubians does and wethers and have kept them pastured
using 2 164' lengths of ElectroStop electric net fencing. We use 6-12
extra plastic PowerPosts to help direct the fence over some of the
terrain. They respect it and as long as they have good food and
something to do inside they don't even look outside. The only escapees
we've had was when one or two of the wethers got spooked and ran right
through where the lengths came togather.
One drawback is that I have to move/remove the fence every few weeks to
mow. It's easy to do, but it does take time. The other is that we
cannot use the fence once the ground freezes or there is much snow.
I replaced most of the pasture fence this year with cattle panels so the
goats can use the pasture more during the cold weather. We also picked
up a buck over the winter. I used a cattle panels between him and the
does with a hot twine wire 2-3' off the ground offset 4-6" on both
sides. Neither side has so much as touched the fence with the wire
there.
I still use the electric netting to pasture the wethers for brush-hog
duty. They go to slaughter in the fall.
>And what of the fence charger itself? Would a solar powered one be
>better than one that is hooked in with your homes electrical wiring? Is
>that safer? I just don't like the idea of hooking up that out in the
>open wire that could be hit by lightening and that go back to my home.
>And yeah,I know such would be grounded;but then how failsafe is that
>against possible damage to your homes breaker box and wiring? Just
>asking and searching, perhaps mostly,for the safer/safest way to do
>something like this.
The first year I used a battery-powered charger (Intellishock 20B) with
9V dry batteries. A 165AH battery lasts all season. It worked very
well as long as I kept the fence from shorting or getting overgrown. I
still use this for the wethers.
This year I added a HotShock 150 115V charger to power the hot wires on
the cattle panels. It has more than enough oomph, such that I don't
bother to trim weeds: I just walk along the wire and step down the worst
of the growth. One thing you don't want to do is have your charger
"protected" by a GFI outlet or breaker. It will trip when the fence
gets "used" and then it's useless. Regular breakers are fine.
Lightening should not be a problem using electric twine and netting. It
will melt/vaporize if hit. There are lightening arrestors that can be
used if you're concerned.
The one thing you need is a good ground. We live in New England with
generally damp soil (particularly this year) so a single ground rod is
good enough. If your ground is dryer then you might need several ground
rods to get a good circuit
I get all my electric fence material from
http://www.premier1supplies.com/. They've never steered me wrong and
have even talked me out of more elaborate stuff I didn't need.
>Also wondering if anyone in here has ever raised,butchered and eaten
>goat meat? It's been years since I did a bit of that. Raised just a
>few,neighbor helped me butcher them and put the meat in our freezer. On
>the young goats-that was the best tasting most tender meat I've ever
>eaten. Nothing against beef; :-) but would have to say that young goat
>meat was better tasting and more tender than any beef I've ever eaten.
Hear, hear! I'm looking forward to having good goat meat again in a few
weeks. Our Nubians, http://yeshuasglory.blogspot.com/, also give good
rich milk. It's not goaty at all. In fact people who try it really
think it is whole cows milk until we tell them otherwise.
Good luck
Kevin Miller
zvyy...@qverpjnl.pbz (rot13)
DWW
"rot13 (Kevin Miller)" <zvyy...@qverpjnl.pbz> wrote in message
news:43681738...@news.supernews.com...
>
> This year I added a HotShock 150 115V charger to power the hot wires on
> the cattle panels. It has more than enough oomph, such that I don't
> bother to trim weeds: I just walk along the wire and step down the worst
> of the growth. One thing you don't want to do is have your charger
> "protected" by a GFI outlet or breaker. It will trip when the fence
> gets "used" and then it's useless. Regular breakers are fine.
>
I've had my charger on a GFI outlet for six years and never had it trip and
the fence has been "used" a lot, so I don't believe that advice is true.
Don Bruder
"DWW" <bdm...@att.net> wrote:
That would be because it isn't worth the electrons it's displayed in.
To a *PROPERLY FUNCTIONING* GFI plug, a fence charger, whether it's
connected to nothing, or continuously zapping some unsuspecting beast,
looks exactly the same as your typical "wall wart" power supply. This is
due to two things: (1) A fence charger is nothing more than a
transformer, identical to the ones in the wall-wart, and (2) I have yet
to see a plug-in fence charger with a three-prong plug, for the simple
reason that having it would be Bad Mojo due to the way the things work -
They need to be on their own independent ground system - Not the house
system. Putting a three-pin on a fence charger would lead to all sorts
of interesting (but undesirable) effects on various devices, and would
probably violate several NEC mandates on system grounding.
--
rot13 Kevin Miller
>In article <uhvaf.1175$yb2....@news.itd.umich.edu>,
> "DWW" <bdm...@att.net> wrote:
>
>> "rot13 (Kevin Miller)" <zvyy...@qverpjnl.pbz> wrote in message
>> news:43681738...@news.supernews.com...
>> >
>> > This year I added a HotShock 150 115V charger to power the hot wires on
>> > the cattle panels. It has more than enough oomph, such that I don't
>> > bother to trim weeds: I just walk along the wire and step down the worst
>> > of the growth. One thing you don't want to do is have your charger
>> > "protected" by a GFI outlet or breaker. It will trip when the fence
>> > gets "used" and then it's useless. Regular breakers are fine.
>> >
>>
>> I've had my charger on a GFI outlet for six years and never had it trip and
>> the fence has been "used" a lot, so I don't believe that advice is true.
I'll admit that's one piece of advice I've never actually tested, but it
seems to make sense to me. Using the charger is causing a short circuit
to ground on the high voltage side of the transformer; not enough
current to trip a breaker but I would think it could trip a GFI. When
was the last time you tested the GFI outlet? They do go bad sometimes.
>That would be because it isn't worth the electrons it's displayed in.
>
>To a *PROPERLY FUNCTIONING* GFI plug, a fence charger, whether it's
>connected to nothing, or continuously zapping some unsuspecting beast,
>looks exactly the same as your typical "wall wart" power supply. This is
>due to two things: (1) A fence charger is nothing more than a
>transformer, identical to the ones in the wall-wart, and (2) I have yet
>to see a plug-in fence charger with a three-prong plug, for the simple
>reason that having it would be Bad Mojo due to the way the things work -
>They need to be on their own independent ground system - Not the house
>system. Putting a three-pin on a fence charger would lead to all sorts
>of interesting (but undesirable) effects on various devices, and would
>probably violate several NEC mandates on system grounding.
The charger I have has a 3-prong plug. I'm sure it grounds the 110V
side of the circuit. The fence ground is connected to a separate
terminal from the power cord ground. I've not opened it up but I'm sure
it grounds the high voltage side of the circuit and is not wired across
the transformer.
>
>--
>Don Bruder - dak...@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
>or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
>somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
>ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
Kevin Miller
zvyy...@qverpjnl.pbz (rot13)
Ronny TX
Re: Goats & Electric Fence?
2005, 12:43am (CST+19) From:
no....@this.address (Peter Huebner)
In article , sleepy44 @webtv.net says...
Ronny10/31:
It just hit me Peter that I do have a
small lot that has high,tight hog type
wire on three sides. Need to repair one
side and fence in the 4th side. And all
this is connected to my small
hay/general type barn. So I'm thinking I
could start the raising of 2 or 3 baby
goats right there. Then I could branch
out into my much larger lot later on
with the fencing idea(s) like you've
talked about here.
Peter:
Ronny:
It hit me too that I was talking of two things before. Starting out
raising just a few young goats for meat and buying and or raising up say
two nannies for milking. So realized I really should start with the
young goats for meat first. Then I can consider more on whether of not I
want to fool with nannies for milk or not?
And I really like your idea about the young goats and chain and A
frame;but I already have the barn and lot,so would go with that way
first. Still a good idea to me though to use a chain deal like you
described for staking out a goat or two in my brushy road ditch. This is
on one side of our old driveway,so isn't close to road traffic.
Ah and I know what you mean about becoming too attached to an animal. I
can be that way very easily. So much so that it becomes very hard for me
to butcher the animal(s) I've raised. I know how it is and I'm going to
have to work on that and somehow resolve it.
Peter:
By the way: stock troughs are death
traps for little goats. Goats like to
jump up on things, little goats like
nothing better than jumping up on rocks;
a cattle trough looks like a big rock
from their eyelevel and once they're in
the drink they never get out again.
-P.
Ronny:
Have to keep that in mind!
Yesterday I went out and rough measured my lots and the yard. Used to
have it cut up somewhat different;but now have one big lot that was an
old garden place and two other smaller lots-one mostly fenced in. Both
lots connected to my barn in such a way that I could keep stock on
either side and both would have a separate entrance and separate stall
in the barn. Or I could just rearange the whole barn to suit my needs.
:-)
Haven't took time out to actually see how much area I have,so need to do
that. Need to see now much the young goats cost. Know an older brother
of mine bought 3 young billies and 2 young nannies about two years ago.
Can't remember the exact price;but remember they were pretty blamed
cheap! And I need to find out when most baby goats are born? I could be
wrong;but it seems to me that nanny goats only breed in the fall and
therefore have their babies in late winter or early spring. I really
want small goats that are just weaned;but would get some younger as long
as they had been on their nanny a bit. Just want to be sure they have
some of that milk because my idea is that young animals grow and thrive
better if they do.
Need to talk to my county agent too about all this.I know there are
quite a few goat raisers around here. See goats here and there. And I
believe it was last year that I saw quite a few at a local sale barn. So
have plenty to check out locally.
So,just sitting here thinking tonight. Thinking this just might all work
out. :-)
Peter Huebner
@webtv.net says...
> Need to talk to my county agent too about all this.I know there are
> quite a few goat raisers around here. See goats here and there. And I
> believe it was last year that I saw quite a few at a local sale barn. So
> have plenty to check out locally.
>
> So,just sitting here thinking tonight. Thinking this just might all work
> out. :-)
You're just a bit far of :-) We give kids away to any who come and ask.
With 600odd weed controlling goats on the farm ... no problemo!
Matthew Beasley
"Neon John" <n...@never.com> wrote in message
news:ujffm1t5timfv436u...@4ax.com...-snippage-
> Now I did use a 15kv neon sign transformer to charge the fence. Seems
> like some weed burner fence chargers have almost that much power.
>
Holley Crap man! Just what was the current limit on that sign transformer?
I have a neon sign transformer, and the current limit is 150mA. That is
enough to hold you on and it doesn't pulse allowing you to let go like a
fence charger. I treat the thing like contact will drop me dead, no second
chance.
I have been hit by one of the weed clearing fence chargers. I couldn't let
go until the pulse ended... that's why the cycle on and off.
Matthew
Randy
>go until the pulse ended... that's why the cycle on and off.
>Matthew
Never ever pee on an electric fence.
Choreboy
>
>
> >In article <uhvaf.1175$yb2....@news.itd.umich.edu>,
> > "DWW" <bdm...@att.net> wrote:
> >
> >> "rot13 (Kevin Miller)" <zvyy...@qverpjnl.pbz> wrote in message
> >> news:43681738...@news.supernews.com...
> >> >
> >> > This year I added a HotShock 150 115V charger to power the hot wires on
> >> > the cattle panels. It has more than enough oomph, such that I don't
> >> > bother to trim weeds: I just walk along the wire and step down the worst
> >> > of the growth. One thing you don't want to do is have your charger
> >> > "protected" by a GFI outlet or breaker. It will trip when the fence
> >> > gets "used" and then it's useless. Regular breakers are fine.
> >> >
> >>
> >> I've had my charger on a GFI outlet for six years and never had it trip and
> >> the fence has been "used" a lot, so I don't believe that advice is true.
>
> I'll admit that's one piece of advice I've never actually tested, but it
> seems to make sense to me. Using the charger is causing a short circuit
> to ground on the high voltage side of the transformer; not enough
> current to trip a breaker but I would think it could trip a GFI. When
> was the last time you tested the GFI outlet? They do go bad sometimes.
>
in the hot wire equals the current in the neutral wire. A short on the
secondary side won't throw the primary currents out of balance.
Choreboy
>
> Just wondering if anyone in here has experience raising goats and
> keeping them inside a pasture that is surrounded only by an electric
> fence? Just thinking 1/4 to less than 1/2 acre pen and maybe 2 to 6
> goats or so that,by and by,would be of various ages because of date of
> birth or the age they were when bought.
At one point we had twenty or so. Some bucks can jump a five-foot fence
without a running start. Does are jump less and don't like to roam so
much. If the lead doe stays in, so will the other does, and that will
keep the bucks around.
If they overgraze, disease will decimate the herd. If there's plenty to
eat, the lead doe will probably be content.
>
> And what of the fence charger itself? Would a solar powered one be
> better than one that is hooked in with your homes electrical wiring? Is
> that safer? I just don't like the idea of hooking up that out in the
> open wire that could be hit by lightening and that go back to my home.
> And yeah,I know such would be grounded;but then how failsafe is that
> against possible damage to your homes breaker box and wiring? Just
> asking and searching, perhaps mostly,for the safer/safest way to do
> something like this.
We had a weed-burner feeding half a mile of fence with the lowest wire
at 10". It was limited to 12ma, but getting shocked was very
unpleasant, and I think potentially dangerous, especially to children.
I had to do a lot of weedeating and testing of insulators.
We would suffer lightning damage until I put a ceramic discharge unit
near the charger. I had a coil of copper-core ignition cable. I
wrapped it on a jar to make a choke. I wired the choke in series with
the fence, between the fence and the discharge unit.
We had another charger powered by a car battery. The spark seemed
pretty powerful but the goats didn't respect it much. They would graze
with their horns against the lowest wire.
Now we have twine mesh fences with battery-powered chargers. They put
out 10,000 volts, but the shocks I've had felt like minor static shocks.
Still, our goats (does) seem to respect them.
>
> Also wondering if anyone in here has ever raised,butchered and eaten
> goat meat? It's been years since I did a bit of that. Raised just a
> few,neighbor helped me butcher them and put the meat in our freezer. On
> the young goats-that was the best tasting most tender meat I've ever
> eaten. Nothing against beef; :-) but would have to say that young goat
> meat was better tasting and more tender than any beef I've ever eaten.
My BIL would pen a goat the evening before so the gut would be empty.
In the morning he'd tie the goat to a bush while he made his
preparations, which took more than an hour. The goat would eat the
bush. Butchering was always a hassle because he always did it that way.
Don Bruder
Choreboy <chorebo...@localnet.com> wrote:
Exactly what I was fumbling around trying to say.
Neon John
wrote:
>
>"Neon John" <n...@never.com> wrote in message
>news:ujffm1t5timfv436u...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 04:30:37 GMT, Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote:
>-snippage-
>
>
>> Now I did use a 15kv neon sign transformer to charge the fence. Seems
>> like some weed burner fence chargers have almost that much power.
>>
>
>Holley Crap man! Just what was the current limit on that sign transformer?
>
>I have a neon sign transformer, and the current limit is 150mA. That is
>enough to hold you on and it doesn't pulse allowing you to let go like a
>fence charger. I treat the thing like contact will drop me dead, no second
>chance.
You have a "cold cathode lighting" transformer, usually set at 120ma.
A "normal" neon transformer is current limited to 30ma into a
secondary short. Other limits include 20, 10 and 5 ma for special
applications.
>
>I have been hit by one of the weed clearing fence chargers. I couldn't let
>go until the pulse ended... that's why the cycle on and off.
Yup :-) Knock on wood, I've never been hit even though I make neon
signs. I'm VERY careful. I have, however, hit a few folks who needed
hitting. One in particular that I recall, was the neighborhood bully
when I was growing up. I conned him into grabbing a wire energized by
a 15kv transformer while standing barefoot in a mud puddle I'd created
just for the purpose. I had to climb down out of my treehouse where
I'd retreated to watch the fun, to unplug the transformer so he could
let go. Meanwhile he was doing the Sixty Cycle Stomp in the mud :-)
After unplugging, he did the Zero Cycle Crumple....
After subsequently blowing him in the air* to about the level of our 2
story house roof, we managed a truce.....
* Dig a hole in the ground that a 5 gallon metal bucket will fit in.
Poke a hole in said bucket and fit a spark plug. Squirt gasoline in
the bucket to make an explosive mixture and put the bucket in the hole
with the bottom facing up. Optionally, get someone to stand on it.
Fire the plug with a neon sign transformer or equiv. Watch the bucket
sail a hundred feet into the air, or about 20 ft with someone
(formerly) standing on top :-)
Ronny TX
> 2005, 8:33pm (CST+19) From:
> no....@this.address (Peter Huebner)
> In article
@webtv.net
> says...
> Need to talk to my county agent too
> about all this.I know there are quite a
> few goat raisers around here. See goats
> here and there. And I believe it was last
> year that I saw quite a few at a local
> sale barn. So have plenty to check out
> locally.
> So,just sitting here thinking tonight.
> Thinking this just might all work out. :-)
> Peter:
> You're just a bit far of :-) We give kids
> away to any who come and ask. With
> 600odd weed controlling goats on the
> farm ... no problemo!
> -P.
Ronny:
Hmmm,now how can I talk Peter into airmailing me some of those kids at
his expense?! :-) LoL
Not too bad here on price I don't think,though the last I knew anything
about this was a couple of years ago. Brother just paid $10 for his
young billies and I think he said $20 for the two baby does he got? He
only meant to buy the billies for lot brush and grass control;but said
his wife saw the 2 does and wanted them. :-)
When I can next week,I guess I better to over to brothers awhile and
play with his goats until can get my own! LoL
Choreboy
>
> I have, however, hit a few folks who needed
> hitting. One in particular that I recall, was the neighborhood bully
> when I was growing up. I conned him into grabbing a wire energized by
> a 15kv transformer while standing barefoot in a mud puddle I'd created
> just for the purpose. I had to climb down out of my treehouse where
> I'd retreated to watch the fun, to unplug the transformer so he could
> let go. Meanwhile he was doing the Sixty Cycle Stomp in the mud :-)
> After unplugging, he did the Zero Cycle Crumple....
Years ago, kids who should have known better led my 18-month-old nephew
near an electric fence without unplugging it. He grabbed it and
couldn't let go. I was glad I wasn't up in a treehouse. My sense of
humor isn't as strong as yours.
>
> After subsequently blowing him in the air* to about the level of our 2
> story house roof, we managed a truce.....
>
> * Dig a hole in the ground that a 5 gallon metal bucket will fit in.
> Poke a hole in said bucket and fit a spark plug. Squirt gasoline in
> the bucket to make an explosive mixture and put the bucket in the hole
> with the bottom facing up. Optionally, get someone to stand on it.
> Fire the plug with a neon sign transformer or equiv. Watch the bucket
> sail a hundred feet into the air, or about 20 ft with someone
> (formerly) standing on top :-)
Wow, an antipersonnel mine wouldn't blow somebody that high! Thank God
he wasn't injured! It reminds me of the time somebody watched my house
and when I came out, ran me down from behind. He knocked me about 70
feet, but I got right up. Neighbors had heard the bang when I got hit,
and they'd heard me hit the pavement a second later. They couldn't
believe I was okay. Some of us Southerners are lucky about avoiding
injury. In his 70s, my grandfather fell out of a pecan tree. The whole
neighborhood heard him hit the ground, but he got up and continued pruning.
>
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
Good news, America liberated Tennessee 140 years ago! It would not have
been possible without the 100,000 Southerners, most of them from
Tennessee, who fought to defend the United States of America. That's
more soldiers than Lee commanded. It would not have been possible if
the Confederacy hadn't had to devote so much manpower to maintain
martial law over the civilians in the states they occupied.
campe...@gmail.com
I had two live wires and three barb on steel poles. I had only the
bottom one live. I plan to make the other one live when I got cattle.
It worked well as long as it was real hot. They seem to know when it
wasen't. I have about three acres in two pastures. I hope to get back
to raising them when I get things a little more organize. I don't know
if I want to raise boer goats. They eat too much and I coulden't find
any cheap feed. Boer goats need a lot of attention that I didn't have
to give other goats. There is a huge demand for goats in North
Carolina. They seem to be selling for a very high price. Somebody
mention getting baby goats for $10. I had to pay $45. for my off bred
and $125. for the boer goats. I don't see making any money at those
prices. Especially feed at $9. 50 lb. bag.