In article <20031127142437.02133.00000...@mb-m16.aol.com>,
rsmei...@aol.comIdiot (RSMEINER) wrote: > Anyone got a good way to clip fencing on a T-post so that the > fence will not be able to slide or be pushed down ?
> My male llamas have been pushing on the top of the fence and it > slides down the T-posts. I used the clips that came with the posts.
T-posts have nubs up and down the face. The face goes against the wire. The clips hold the fencing to the nubs if installed properly. Make sure the fence has proper tension, too.
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>T-posts have nubs up and down the face. The face goes against the wire. >The clips hold the fencing to the nubs if installed properly. Make sure >the fence has proper tension, too.
Thats the way it's installed. Just that the llamas can put enough weight on the fence to push it down over the nubs. At 1 time the fence was stretched tight but has loosened a little over the last few years. I will have to restretch it. May end up running a strand of electric along the top of it also.
The llamas get a little horny when the weather turns cool. Females will come up to the fence and flirt with the males on the other side. And of course the males have to stick their heads over and thru the fence to get a good sniff. Makes a mess of the fence.
Try putting a barbed wire about 6" above the top of the woven wire.. And if you have pigs that try to route under the fense, put a barbed wire along the bottom.
That's how we did it on the farm.. (years ago). But I never see it around here anymore..
rsmei...@aol.comIdiot (RSMEINER) wrote in message <news:20031127142437.02133.00000882@mb-m16.aol.com>... > Anyone got a good way to clip fencing on a T-post so that the > fence will not be able to slide or be pushed down ?
> My male llamas have been pushing on the top of the fence and it > slides down the T-posts. I used the clips that came with the posts.
Some of the older T posts have oblong holes in one of the blades of the post. Guess you could drill out the posts in one or two places and put wire thru the holes when fastening the fencing to the posts.
I have seen T posts with small vertical "clips" on one side, as well...kind of like one tail of a paper brad. These help hold the fence fabric up and firmly against the post.
In article <20031127165645.02171.00001...@mb-m16.aol.com>,
rsmei...@aol.comIdiot (RSMEINER) wrote: > And of course the males have to stick their heads over and thru the > fence to get a good sniff.
Do they do the lip curl?
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On 11/27/03 1:24 PM, in article 20031127142437.02133.00000...@mb-m16.aol.com, "RSMEINER"
<rsmei...@aol.comIdiot> wrote: > Anyone got a good way to clip fencing on a T-post so that the > fence will not be able to slide or be pushed down ?
> My male llamas have been pushing on the top of the fence and it > slides down the T-posts. I used the clips that came with the posts.
What about using some good old fashioned baling wire? Maybe a double loop around the post and through the clip would solve the problem.
Dean
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In article <BBEBFE05.4545A%dh0...@ineINbrasVALkaID.com>, Dean Hoffman <dh0...@ineINbrasVALkaID.com> wrote:
> On 11/27/03 1:24 PM, in article > 20031127142437.02133.00000...@mb-m16.aol.com, "RSMEINER" > <rsmei...@aol.comIdiot> wrote:
> > Anyone got a good way to clip fencing on a T-post so that the > > fence will not be able to slide or be pushed down ?
> > My male llamas have been pushing on the top of the fence and it > > slides down the T-posts. I used the clips that came with the posts.
> What about using some good old fashioned baling wire? Maybe a double > loop around the post and through the clip would solve the problem.
For llamas, I'd be a lot more inclined to put a strand of close-spaced barbed wire on insulators as the top strand and run hot wires between the existing strands, then jumper some hot to that strand of barbed wire at the top.
I say barbed wire for the top because llamas have that thick coat on their neck (and pretty much everywhere else, for that matter) and if they're laying across it, they'll never get poked by a smooth wire. Experience talking here... Our llama ignores smooth hot-wire - she'll lean on it all day long without ever so much as a twitch. But she won't go anywhere near the barbed hot wire... Put barbed on there not for the physical "bite", but so that the barbs poke through the hair enough for the electric to pop 'em.
>For llamas, I'd be a lot more inclined to put a strand of close-spaced >barbed wire on insulators as the top strand and run hot wires between >the existing strands, then jumper some hot to that strand of barbed wire >at the top.
>I say barbed wire for the top because llamas have that thick coat on >their neck (and pretty much everywhere else, for that matter) and if >they're laying across it, they'll never get poked by a smooth wire. >Experience talking here... Our llama ignores smooth hot-wire - she'll >lean on it all day long without ever so much as a twitch. But she won't >go anywhere near the barbed hot wire... Put barbed on there not for the >physical "bite", but so that the barbs poke through the hair enough for >the electric to pop 'em.
>-- >Don Bruder - dak...@sonic.net <--- Preferred Email - SpamAssassinated.
I hate barbed wire with a passion. Lost 1 baby from it a few years ago when she got tangled up in fleeing from something. Cut her to shreds.
It takes a pretty hot wire to get thru the llamas thick fiber.
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"RSMEINER" <rsmei...@aol.comIdiot> wrote in message > Anyone got a good way to clip fencing on a T-post so that the > fence will not be able to slide or be pushed down ?
> My male llamas have been pushing on the top of the fence and it > slides down the T-posts. I used the clips that came with the posts.
I've just got to ask after seeing mention of "nubs" on "T-posts" and holes on "blades" on older posts and no real mention of having the wire running through holes in the "T-posts".
I'm wondering whether what Americans call "T-posts" is what would here would be called a "star picket" (a Y shaped steel fencing post which is used between wooden strainers and which has about 20 holes in it and is usually used to carry a minimum of plain or barb bottom wire, a plain belly wire, and a barbed top wire. Chicken wire of sheep/goat wire is then attached over these strained carrier wires).
Do "T-posts" have holes in them? And if they don't have holes, how do you manage to make a strong fence without incorporating the wire into the fence itself?
We have what sort of amounts to "nubs" (but more like up-pointing hooks) on grape vine stakes and they don't hold the wire at all well
> I'm wondering whether what Americans call "T-posts" is what would here would > be called a "star picket" (a Y shaped steel fencing post which is used > between wooden strainers and which has about 20 holes in it and is usually > used to carry a minimum of plain or barb bottom wire, a plain belly wire, > and a barbed top wire. Chicken wire of sheep/goat wire is then attached > over these strained carrier wires).
> Do "T-posts" have holes in them? And if they don't have holes, how do you > manage to make a strong fence without incorporating the wire into the fence > itself?
Hey Fran:
There is a photo of a US type T post on the Premier fencing page at:
The older style had holes in the post where a wire could be threaded through to attach the fencing; the new "improved" models only have nubs to hold the wire and on these the wire is attached to the post with clips. I sure there is a photo of the clips somewhere on the Net but I couldn't find one easily...
In article <3fc7edb6$0$1748$5a62a...@freenews.iinet.net.au>,
"Fran" <ma...@takethisbitoutwebone.com.au> wrote: > I've just got to ask after seeing mention of "nubs" on "T-posts" and holes > on "blades" on older posts and no real mention of having the wire running > through holes in the "T-posts".
T-Posts have a T shape when viewed end on. No holes. Most come with blade on the bottom end. They are driven into the ground with a heavy pipe which is sealed at one end.
> I'm wondering whether what Americans call "T-posts" is what would here would > be called a "star picket" (a Y shaped steel fencing post which is used > between wooden strainers and which has about 20 holes in it and is usually > used to carry a minimum of plain or barb bottom wire, a plain belly wire, > and a barbed top wire. Chicken wire of sheep/goat wire is then attached > over these strained carrier wires).
I have never seen a star picket, nor do I know what a strainer is.
> Do "T-posts" have holes in them? And if they don't have holes, how do you > manage to make a strong fence without incorporating the wire into the fence > itself?
We keep cattle in just fine with a four or five strand barb wire (pronounced bob-war) fences. The t-posts are driven into the ground at intervals and the wire is strung, tight. The strength is in the taughtness between end posts, which are not t-posts, but conventional wood or pipe posts. Usually three endposts which are tied together tightly by cross bracing wires wrapped and twisted, but held apart by a horizontal pipe or post. The t-posts are simply there to give rigidity to the fence and keep the strands evenly spaced. The top of the "T" shape is the face. The face has nubs from the top of the post to the bottom at about 2" intervals. A wire up against the nub and tied to the post tightly (clips, which are mostly softer wire) won't slide up or down because of the nub. Sheep or goat fences also can be used with t-posts, but the fencing has bends in each horizontal strand between vertical strands. They are there because the fence has to be stretched til the bends are gone.
> We have what sort of amounts to "nubs" (but more like up-pointing hooks) on > grape vine stakes and they don't hold the wire at all well
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> The older style had holes in the post where a wire could be threaded through > to attach the fencing; the new "improved" models only have nubs to hold > the wire and on these the wire is attached to the post with clips. <<snipped>>
"The Rock Garden" <hens...@povn.com> wrote in message
> "Fran" <ma...@takethisbitoutwebone.com.au> wrote > > Do "T-posts" have holes in them? And if they don't have holes, how do you > > manage to make a strong fence without incorporating the wire into the > fence > > itself? > There is a photo of a US type T post on the Premier fencing page at:
Thanks Skip, now I underconstumble. Not at all like our "star pickets" (other than the fact that they are both made of steel and are both used in fencing).
> There are photos of them in use with barbed, electric and field fence at:
They are obviously used in a very similar way to the way we use them: as infillers between strainers (end posts and end assemblies of varying types that take the strain of the wire).
> The older style had holes in the post where a wire could be threaded through > to attach the fencing; the new "improved" models only have nubs to hold > the wire and on these the wire is attached to the post with clips.
Must admit those nubs have me scratching my head. I can't see how they could be very effective. It seems to me that the very thing that Randy has been complaining about would be an inevitable outcome of not having the wires incorporated into the fence.
"Jeepers" <moom...@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message > "Fran" <ma...@takethisbitoutwebone.com.au> wrote:
> > I've just got to ask after seeing mention of "nubs" on "T-posts" and holes > > on "blades" on older posts and no real mention of having the wire running > > through holes in the "T-posts".
> T-Posts have a T shape when viewed end on. No holes. Most come with > blade on the bottom end. They are driven into the ground with a heavy > pipe which is sealed at one end.
We use teh same sort of driver for the Y shaped "star pickets".
> > I'm wondering whether what Americans call "T-posts" is what would here would > > be called a "star picket" (a Y shaped steel fencing post which is used > > between wooden strainers and which has about 20 holes in it and is usually > > used to carry a minimum of plain or barb bottom wire, a plain belly wire, > > and a barbed top wire. Chicken wire of sheep/goat wire is then attached > > over these strained carrier wires).
> I have never seen a star picket, nor do I know what a strainer is.
You will know what a strainer is as soon as I describe it, you just aren't familiar with using another name for it. :-))
A strainer is the end assemblies at the ends (or sometimes in the middle in a very long run) of the fence. The strainers take the strain when you put the tension on the wires. I think you call it 'stretch' the wires in the US, so that would be the posts/fence end assemblies that take the pressure of the wires being tightened when you use the "wire pulling in on itself before you knot it or gripple it" device)
> > Do "T-posts" have holes in them? And if they don't have holes, how do you > > manage to make a strong fence without incorporating the wire into the fence > > itself?
> We keep cattle in just fine with a four or five strand barb wire > (pronounced bob-war) fences.
Here that is promounced 'barb'.
The t-posts are driven into the ground at
> intervals and the wire is strung, tight. The strength is in the > taughtness between end posts, which are not t-posts, but conventional > wood or pipe posts. Usually three endposts which are tied together > tightly by cross bracing wires wrapped and twisted, but held apart by a > horizontal pipe or post.
That description (of a box framed end assembly with infill posts) sounds somewhat similar to the structural aspects of fences used here, however, there is a big differnece in wire application. Since optimising farm production usually involves running both cattle and sheep (or maybe goats of alpacas or some other grazer) then sheep (or goat or pig or other feral animal) wire would usually be used on a 4-5 strand wire fence (barb on the top or maybe the top 2, then the sheep wire is hung of the 3rd wire and also attached on the bottom and the belly wire - but all that does depend on the farm and the locality).
If cattle are the only animals run on the farm (as we do on one of our farms in a low traffic area) then the fence would vary. We use a 3 strand plain wire electric fence along the road and a 4 plain wire, 1 barb wire between some paddocks and a 2 barb, 3 palin and sheep wire between other paddocks.
While all these fences are adequate for cows with calves, none of these work to keep the bulls from doing what their damnest when they get it into their strange heads to do go crazy. We have had the bulls knock down box corner assemblies (which is what you have described above) with electric outriders on them and even squash steel "W" reinforced gates.
Here, where we live, we have fences with 2 bards and 3 wires and chicken fencing along the road from and lesse fenes in the interior of the farm. You would never see a full 6 wire barb fence to keep cattle in place. This is because of the expense of barb and because a combination of plain wire with a few rows of barb used only on the major cattle stress points (top and maybe bottom) is usually sufficient for most situations.
Barb wire is tied onto the fence and the plain wire is always incorporated into the fence using the holes on the "star pickets" (or where timber is really plentiful, [rare these days] then the infill posts would have holes drilled in them and the plain wire would again be threaded through the holes). Usually, any problem (except fromt eh bulls) comes with the barb wire and not the plain wire. The barb being tied on, is always the weakest bit of the fence and that is why those nubs seem so strange to me.
> The t-posts are driven into the ground at > > intervals and the wire is strung, tight. The strength is in the > > taughtness between end posts, which are not t-posts, but conventional > > wood or pipe posts. Usually three endposts which are tied together > > tightly by cross bracing wires wrapped and twisted, but held apart by a > > horizontal pipe or post.
> That description (of a box framed end assembly with infill posts) sounds > somewhat similar to the structural aspects of fences used here, however, > there is a big differnece in wire application. Since optimising farm > production usually involves running both cattle and sheep (or maybe goats of > alpacas or some other grazer) then sheep (or goat or pig or other feral > animal) wire would usually be used on a 4-5 strand wire fence (barb on the > top or maybe the top 2, then the sheep wire is hung of the 3rd wire and also > attached on the bottom and the belly wire - but all that does depend on the > farm and the locality).
> If cattle are the only animals run on the farm (as we do on one of our farms > in a low traffic area) then the fence would vary. We use a 3 strand plain > wire electric fence along the road and a 4 plain wire, 1 barb wire between > some paddocks and a 2 barb, 3 palin and sheep wire between other paddocks.
There's one, paddocks, we don't have paddocks, we have pastures and fields. All separated by 5 strand bob-war and t-posts.
> While all these fences are adequate for cows with calves, none of these work > to keep the bulls from doing what their damnest when they get it into their > strange heads to do go crazy. We have had the bulls knock down box corner > assemblies (which is what you have described above) with electric outriders > on them and even squash steel "W" reinforced gates.
Electric fences are reserved for goats and dividing larger pastures, mostly. Bulls are to be respected, all right. Seen 'em shred fences, gates and wreck equipment and bust corrals (and people). Recently a neighbor's Mexican bull jumped our 8' cattle guard and sought out our larger Red Brangus bull. They fought and fought and fought. I was worried because the smaller bull had horns, sharp ones. Made no difference, our bull, "Dozer" pushe him almost 400 yards BACK to the front gate, where I let him out. It amazes me how tough they are. Dangling parts go through catclaw, huisatche, cactus and mesquite thorns. Ow. Not to mention the beating their skulls take. I have more than one dent on my Texas Caddillac from bulls.
> Here, where we live, we have fences with 2 bards and 3 wires and chicken > fencing along the road from and lesse fenes in the interior of the farm. > You would never see a full 6 wire barb fence to keep cattle in place.
I don't think Ive ever seen six strand either, although it wouldn't surprise me. These days game fencing is big, 8' chainlink or goat fencing on HUGE t-posts, with "strainers." :^)
> This > is because of the expense of barb and because a combination of plain wire > with a few rows of barb used only on the major cattle stress points (top and > maybe bottom) is usually sufficient for most situations.
> Barb wire is tied onto the fence and the plain wire is always incorporated > into the fence using the holes on the "star pickets" (or where timber is > really plentiful, [rare these days] then the infill posts would have holes > drilled in them and the plain wire would again be threaded through the > holes). Usually, any problem (except fromt eh bulls) comes with the barb > wire and not the plain wire. The barb being tied on, is always the weakest > bit of the fence and that is why those nubs seem so strange to me.
I guess a five strand barb-wire fence is easily repairable with the strands tied on. The nubs are 1/2" by 1/2" and 1 1/2" apart. I would also guess that 5 strands of barb wire are sufficient to keep the animals in. The nubs are enough to keep the wire from moving up or down, which is how our pony likes it. It allows him to scratch his ass in a most gentle manner. Occassionally you may see a heifer or cow sticking their heads through for the greener grass. After a couple of years, a good hedgerow developes along the fence of thorny growth on those fences that aren't kept cleared. I wouldn't know anyone like that ;^).
Stringing a straight, strong barb-wire fence is a highly prized artform to Texas cattlemen. Songs and poetry have been written about it.
I have only 350 acres and so it's really just a hobby. The soil is sandy and so t-posts go in easily, but the salty Texas Gulf Coast air keeps them rusty, so they get replaced every 30 years or so. ;^)
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