Re: Iphone 4 using up GPRS/3G data every day
Tim Downie
> My friend's phone bill is showing 30p every day.
>
> She is on Virgin which does a 30p/day/25MB deal. They seem to charge
> the 30p for any data whatever.
>
> The Q is why her phone is using any GPRS/3G data. She doesn't have any
> known apps running which might do that. Does anybody have any ideas?
>
> We can't tell how much data is being used each day but it is obviously
> less than 25MB!
>
> She only uses the phone for SMS and voice.
Can I have her iphone then? Seems like it's wasted on her. ;-)
Tim
Jon Ribbens
> My friend's phone bill is showing 30p every day.
>
> She is on Virgin which does a 30p/day/25MB deal. They seem to charge
> the 30p for any data whatever.
>
> The Q is why her phone is using any GPRS/3G data. She doesn't have any
> known apps running which might do that. Does anybody have any ideas?
>
> We can't tell how much data is being used each day but it is obviously
> less than 25MB!
>
> She only uses the phone for SMS and voice.
I think she can turn it off in Settings->General->Network->Mobile Data.
The iPhone could be using the data connection for any number of things,
e.g. getting the current time or something.
Whiskers
On 2010-11-24, Peter <nos...@nospam9876.com> wrote:
> My friend's phone bill is showing 30p every day.
>
> She is on Virgin which does a 30p/day/25MB deal. They seem to charge
> the 30p for any data whatever.
>
> The Q is why her phone is using any GPRS/3G data. She doesn't have any
> known apps running which might do that. Does anybody have any ideas?
>
> We can't tell how much data is being used each day but it is obviously
> less than 25MB!
>
> She only uses the phone for SMS and voice.
Possibly something set to 'check for updates automatically'.
Virgin seem to use the term 'web' to include any internet usage, including
eg email even though email isn't 'web'.
Do they charge 30p per day regardless of whether or not any 'data' is
actually exchanged?
Has the iPhone got some way of turning off 'mobile broadband'? Android
has ;))
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
News
If it is a "take or pay" agreement, that won't stop the charges.
Doug Anderson
I doubt that it is using it to check the time.
But, it could be in use to check email (if she has any accounts set
up).
It could be in use to download map data for her current location.
The App store could be checking with the mothership to see if any of
her applications need an update.
It is hard to think about all the things it _might_ be using a data
connection for.
William Black
> My friend's phone bill is showing 30p every day.
>
> She is on Virgin which does a 30p/day/25MB deal. They seem to charge
> the 30p for any data whatever.
>
> The Q is why her phone is using any GPRS/3G data. She doesn't have any
> known apps running which might do that. Does anybody have any ideas?
>
> We can't tell how much data is being used each day but it is obviously
> less than 25MB!
>
> She only uses the phone for SMS and voice.
It's collecting data from somewhere.
Either something silly like getting the time and date or possibly
connecting back to Apple to see if there are any updates.
It should be possible to switch it off, but why on earth did she buy
Jesus Phone if she wasn't going to worship at the Church of Jobs by
using it as something other than a phone?
--
William Black
Free men have open minds
If you want loyalty, buy a dog...
Chris
> My friend's phone bill is showing 30p every day.
>
> She is on Virgin which does a 30p/day/25MB deal. They seem to charge
> the 30p for any data whatever.
>
> The Q is why her phone is using any GPRS/3G data. She doesn't have any
> known apps running which might do that. Does anybody have any ideas?
>
> We can't tell how much data is being used each day but it is obviously
> less than 25MB!
>
> She only uses the phone for SMS and voice.
notification will use data as well as any email fetching.
--
Chris
Jon Ribbens
>>I think she can turn it off in Settings->General->Network->Mobile Data.
>
Um, what? She wants the phone to behave in a non-standard manner and
she has to press one single option to make it do so and this is
"hassle"? Wtf?
>>The iPhone could be using the data connection for any number of things,
>>e.g. getting the current time or something.
>
> That's unbelievable.
Apparently you have some problems with your beliefs.
JF Mezei
> Um, what? She wants the phone to behave in a non-standard manner and
> she has to press one single option to make it do so and this is
> "hassle"? Wtf?
Wi-Fi is accessible from the main setup screen.
3G Data needs to go from main screen to General to Network.
It would be nice if 3g data could also be gotten to from the main
screen. I use it often because my data plan is limited and I don't want
background apps constantly exchanging info with Apple or iMAP requests
to my server to find out if I have new mail.
Yes, I know Jobs created the iphone with unmetered usage plans in mind,
But buit that he sells unlocked/contract free phones, there are more and
more people like me who use their old mobile plans and don't tell the
network you have an iphone.
Andy Burns
> It is crap if this phone is just doing its own thing on GPRS/3G. An
> incredibly arrogant design.
It is, but smartphones in general seem to come with an inbuilt
assumption that you *WILL* have a tariff with bundled data for it to eat ...
David Kennedy
>
> The fact that one can turn off mobile data is not the point, because
> one needs to turn it back on to check emails etc.
You said [quote]
> She only uses the phone for SMS and voice.
So presumably she won't need to turn it back on. Job done.
--
David Kennedy
David Kennedy
Perhaps they think [obviously falsely in this case] that you might want
to use some of the features on the device you paid for...
Whiskers
>
>>I think she can turn it off in Settings->General->Network->Mobile Data.
>
Could an icon or button or something be placed on the screen somewhere
easily accessible? I'm not familiar with the iPhone, but on my Android
2.2 I can 'add widget' and scroll down to 'settings' to find a list of
'settings widgets' that include all the 'connectivity' options. A single
tap on such a 'widget' toggles that service on or off. I have the 'mobile
internet widget' right next to the icon that starts up my email app -
could hardly be more convenient :))
>>The iPhone could be using the data connection for any number of things,
>>e.g. getting the current time or something.
>
> That's unbelievable.
I don't think so; smartphones are designed on the assumption that the user
wants to have 'instant' location-related information at their fingertips
and to be on-line whenever possible.
> In some parts of Europe, on PAYG, that could be £10/MB.
Yes. Which is why smartphone instructions usually include the excellent
advice that you make sure you have a suitable 'tariff' set up before you
do anything else.
But I do wish mobile phone service providers would stop advertising
"unlimited internet" and then hiding "fair usage" and "data charges" deeply
in the small print. (Likewise the 'landline' ISPs of course).
Doug Anderson
> Chris <nos...@nospam.com> wrote
> Thank you. It did show some usage there, which I reset and we will see
> if it clocks up again.
>
> It is crap if this phone is just doing its own thing on GPRS/3G. An
> incredibly arrogant design.
Does "arrogant" mean something different on the other side of the
pond? You seem to be using it to mean "doesn't read my mind and then
do exactly what I'd wish it to do if I'd thought about it."
In North America it means overrating oneself.
> The fact that one can turn off mobile data is not the point, because
> one needs to turn it back on to check emails etc.
You said she was only using the phone for phone calls and SMS. If she
is using data services to check email, then you shouldn't be surprised
at a data charge.
Doug Anderson
> Historically, in Europe, Apple phones were sold exclusively under
> monopoly arrangements, with 'unmetered' data.
>
> Even that was arrogant, because it assumed the user never left the
> country.
Again, I don't understand your use of the word "arrogant." Nor do I
understand even remotely how Apple's marketing made any "assumptions"
about whether its users left the country.
I certainly wish Apple didn't sell its phones locked to AT&T in the
US, but I can see that they do that for marketing and profit reasons,
not out of "arrogance."
I'd rather buy an iphone for $200, unlocked and with no contract. But
the only way it makes sense for Apple to sell phones for $200 is with
a big subsidy from the service provider, so there it is.
> And for low-activity owners who don't want to pay 400-500 quid a year
> for carrying a fashion icon, it is very arrogant.
It is hard to know why this bee is up your bonnet. You don't like
the iPhone, so don't buy one.
As far as those low activity users, they can certainly elect not to
pay 400-500 quid a year to carry a fashion item. Or have iPhone
purchases been made mandatory as part of the "Big Society" program?
>
> If you pop down to say Croatia (Europe but not EU), Voda will hit you
> with Ł9.99 for every 24hr period during which you used *any* data. I
> have automated SMS messages from them to prove it. They basically
> automatically "sell" you a Ł9.99 50MB 24HR-valid data bundle.
Yes, and this is a very good reason to turn data off on your phone
while traveling outside of your own country. I don't know why you
think this is Apple's fault.
> There is no reason for the phone or its apps to just go online. It is
> just crap programming.
Maybe. But maybe you use the map application, and you leave it on (or
on in the background) while you are out of WIFI range. How is the map
application supposed to know that you don't want it to go online? (I
know, if Apple were less arrogant, the iPhone would have read your
mind.) Or maybe you check email, and you have it set to check for new
mail every hour. Again, how is the email program supposed to know to
stay offline.
Crap programming is nearly ubiquitous, and I'm sure Apple has been
guilty of some. But to blame the problem on crap programming violates
Occam's razor here.
> Sure it can be disabled (one can turn off mobile data, and one can
> also turn off roaming) but if one wants to check one's emails, one
> needs to go through the menus to turn it back on.
Yes, that's true. If you want the data plan back on, you will have to
turn it back on.
> IF they wanted to do this sensibly they could have done it only if the
> phone happens to have a wifi connection.
Could have done what? You can turn off data, keep wifi on, and check
your email just fine (if you have a wifi connection). I do it every
day, multiple times.
> My Nokia E51 doesn't do something so stupid, and if it did, Nokia
> owners would go berserk because a lot of them are on PAYG.
What doesn't it do exactly? It reads your mind and only uses data
when you want it to?
Can you leave the data plan on, and leave the email application on,
and set it to check for email every hour, but have it read your mind
and know not to use the data plan anyway when you happen to be in
Croatia? Then I want one of those.
Oh, wait. This phone can't read everyone's mind - just yours:
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=39&topicid=40708
alexd
Anderson chose the tried and tested strategy of:
> Can you leave the data plan on, and leave the email application on,
> and set it to check for email every hour, but have it read your mind
> and know not to use the data plan anyway when you happen to be in
> Croatia? Then I want one of those.
S60 apps can be set to ask before connecting with AP to use - ie prompt the
user before potentially costing them money.
> Oh, wait. This phone can't read everyone's mind - just yours:
>
> http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=39&topicid=40708
That thread is a discussion about billing errors, so I don't see the
relevance.
--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEs...@ale.cx)
19:36:15 up 56 min, 6 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.02
"I am utterly appalled at how I have been treated like a criminal"
-- Andrew Crossley, ACS:Law, 13 August 2010
JF Mezei
> It is crap if this phone is just doing its own thing on GPRS/3G. An
> incredibly arrogant design.
This is why Apple iinitially insisted all networks provide somewhat
realistically priced unmetered (of sufficient usage limits) data service
on the iphone.
With data "on", the phone is on constant contact with the apple servers
to get notifications of new mail, new application updates new this and
new that.
By having a single "contact" point the iphone ends up using less data to
keep a single connection alive for all applications that expect some
sort of notification.
If you have a mail service that has "push" notification, even if you
turn off the Mail.App on the iphone, the connection for new mail
notifications remains. You would need to power the iphone off and back
on at which point mail notifications would not be registered and not
generate any traffic. But once the app has been started once, the
registration remains.
Turning off 3g data, or always staying in a wi-fi zone alleviates this
problem
JF Mezei
>>It should be possible to switch it off, but why on earth did she buy
>>Jesus Phone if she wasn't going to worship at the Church of Jobs by
>>using it as something other than a phone?
Slight error. You worship his lordship Jobs at the Church of Apple.
In this day of thanksgiving, let us remember how Steve Jobs was
crucified by John Sculley in 1985 and resurected the company in 1997.
Let us thank Steve Jobs for this, and wish him a good turkey dinner.
Bon Apétit !
JF Mezei
> IF they wanted to do this sensibly they could have done it only if the
> phone happens to have a wifi connection.
Actually this makes sense. The iphone could have a setting for push
notification only on wi-fi.
JF Mezei
> And exactly how is the OS supposed to know whether you want to have the
> expensive connection or not?
Artificial Intelligence is coming in IOS 4.3 :-)
They could have a setting
"Allow background apps access to mobile data ?" YES/NO."
JF Mezei
> There are no visible background apps running.
When an app first starts after a reboot of the phone, it registers
itself for whatever push notification service it needs/wants. (consider
the App store, it registers itself so that it can be told whenever there
is an update to an App you have already downloaded).
So even if the app is not running right now, its registration for push
notification is still there and the phone's OS will handle it ib its
behalf. Depending on the config, the phone may start the application
when it receives a message, or just display an alert and give you the
option to start the app. In the case of the App store app, it just seems
to update the icon on the desktop to show the number of app updates needed.
> I am suprised Apple doesn't document this behaviour.
It is actually quite well documented to developpers. How much data it
actually uses isn't. But as I recall, the packets exchanged are fairly
small. Not sure how often they are exchanged though. Wireshark on the
wi-fi interface might reveal this.
Doug Anderson
> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote
>
> >This is why Apple iinitially insisted all networks provide somewhat
> >realistically priced unmetered (of sufficient usage limits) data service
> >on the iphone.
>
> Except they forgot that there is a concept called "leaving one's
> country" ;) (I do realise very few Americans do that :))
I'll remember that next time I hear the English complain about
American tourists. Those tourists are apparently imaginary.
Why not just turn the data off when you leave your carrier's region?
Really?
Doug Anderson
> Doug Anderson <ethelthelo...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> >Maybe. But maybe you use the map application, and you leave it on (or
> >on in the background) while you are out of WIFI range.
>
> Not the case.
But you alluded to email. You claimed your girlfriend only using the
phone and SMS (in which case she shoudl switch data off). But then
you keep bringing up email.
JF Mezei
> However, "push" as such doesn't exist on GPRS/3G because - unless you
> are on a fixed IP and always online, which is extremely rare
Correct. The phone establishes a TCP connection to the Apple push
notification servers and keeps it alive. When the connection is broken
(such as turningt off data, or goinfg through a tunnel) and
re-established, the phone automatically reconnects.
Andrew Templeman
> >
> > If you pop down to say Croatia (Europe but not EU), Voda will hit you
> > with £9.99 for every 24hr period during which you used *any* data. I
> > have automated SMS messages from them to prove it. They basically
> > automatically "sell" you a £9.99 50MB 24HR-valid data bundle.
>
> Yes, and this is a very good reason to turn data off on your phone
> while traveling outside of your own country. I don't know why you
> think this is Apple's fault.
In fact this is the default. you have to turn on data roaming if you
want to spend a ruck of cash.
--
Andy Templeman <http://www.templeman.org.uk/>
Chris
>> have automated SMS messages from them to prove it. They basically
work with the other networks in the US. Compared with virtually every
other country which has only one network standard.
--
Chris
Chris
--
Chris
nospam
<nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> The main reason they are locked to ATT is that technically they will not
> work with the other networks in the US. Compared with virtually every
> other country which has only one network standard.
iphones work just fine with t-mobile, but on 2g only. in the case of
the original iphone, that's all it did on at&t too.
Martin Jay
>>The iPhone could be using the data connection for any number of things,
>>e.g. getting the current time or something.
Keeping Steve Jobs up to date with what the phone's owner is doing?
Wouldn't want anyone installing something he hasn't approved. :)
>That's unbelievable.
>
>In some parts of Europe, on PAYG, that could be £10/MB.
There are plenty of stories in Internet forums about people taking
their iPhone abroad and returning home to a bill for hundreds of
pounds.
--
Martin Jay
DevilsPGD
<nos...@nospam9876.com> was claimed to have wrote:
>My friend's phone bill is showing 30p every day.
>
>She is on Virgin which does a 30p/day/25MB deal. They seem to charge
>the 30p for any data whatever.
>
>The Q is why her phone is using any GPRS/3G data. She doesn't have any
>known apps running which might do that. Does anybody have any ideas?
>
>We can't tell how much data is being used each day but it is obviously
>less than 25MB!
>
>She only uses the phone for SMS and voice.
It's most likely an email account, MobileMe account, or push
notification. Location services would also do the trick (taking photos
might fire up location services, for example)
Checking for updates to installed applications, or updating the "kill
switch" list could be using data too.
At the end of the day, iOS is designed for always-on data if data is
available at all. Switching data off through the interface is the only
workaround, but this will get you absolutely no data use at all.
Also remember that even if you fetch mail manually, just touching the
Mail application (and potentially Contacts or Calendar if these
synchronize with a remote server) will cause data use.
DevilsPGD
<jon+u...@unequivocal.co.uk> was claimed to have wrote:
>I think she can turn it off in Settings->General->Network->Mobile Data.
>The iPhone could be using the data connection for any number of things,
>e.g. getting the current time or something.
iPhones are sadly incapable of getting the correct time over the
internet, instead they rely on whatever time the tower provides.
Doug Anderson
(snip)
> The main reason they are locked to ATT is that technically they will
> not work with the other networks in the US. Compared with virtually
> every other country which has only one network standard.
I'm using mine with t-mobile. I don't use data (just wifi).
But you are right that they won't work with Spring or Verizon.
That isn't why they are locked though.
nospam
<nos...@nospam9876.com> wrote:
> >There are plenty of stories in Internet forums about people taking
> >their iPhone abroad and returning home to a bill for hundreds of
> >pounds.
>
> Very easily done.
even easier to prevent.
Phil
>
> There are plenty of stories in Internet forums about people taking
> their iPhone abroad and returning home to a bill for hundreds of
> pounds.
When roaming within the EU thats been fixed (on T-Mobile at least) by the
new EU roaming rules. You are not allowed to use any data until you have
bought a bundle. I paid £10 for 50MB, valid for 30 day. I wiped the
remainder out on the last day playing with iPlayer.
After the 50MB was used I got back to the buy a bundle page, smaller
bundles are available.
You can still run up a huge bill if you leave the EU though, or have a
non-EU SIM card.
Phil
Chris
> In article<0vKdnX8EaNHObnPR...@bt.com>,
> Chris<nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> The main reason they are locked to ATT is that technically they will not
>> work with the other networks in the US. Compared with virtually every
>> other country which has only one network standard.
>
> locked in with AT&T is that was one of the terms set by AT&T during
> contract negotiations.
>
In practical terms you only partial network capability as TMobile USA
supports GSM but the 3G spectrum is outside the worldwide standard
implemented on the iPhone. Who wants an expensive iPhone without 3G?
--
Chris