Re: iOS 5.0.1 now available

Message has been deleted

Lloyd E Parsons

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Nov 10, 2011, 2:15:06 PM11/10/11

to

On 11/10/11 12:57 PM, Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article<michelle-830E2F...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Michelle Steiner<mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>> APPLE-SA-2011-11-10-1 iOS 5.0.1 Software Update
>
> And it can be installed over the internet without using a computer and
> iTunes, just like Apple said it would.
>
Yes, it sure is.

And one of the things it says it does is add multi-gestures to the
original iPad... Nice..

--
Lloyd

jc

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Nov 10, 2011, 2:34:53 PM11/10/11

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In addition to these issues, the big thing is that it addresses the
battery problems.

-jc

On Nov 10, 12:55 pm, Michelle Steiner <miche...@michelle.org> wrote:
> APPLE-SA-2011-11-10-1 iOS 5.0.1 Software Update
>

> iOS 5.0.1 Software Update is now available and addresses the
> following:
>
> CFNetwork
> Available for: iOS 3.0 through 5.0 for iPhone 3GS,
> iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S,
> iOS 3.1 through 5.0 for iPod touch (3rd generation) and later,
> iOS 3.2 through 5.0 for iPad, iOS 4.3 through 5.0 for iPad 2
> Impact: Visiting a maliciously crafted website may lead to the
> disclosure of sensitive information
> Description: An issue existed in CFNetwork's handling of maliciously
> crafted URLs. When accessing a maliciously crafted HTTP or HTTPS URL,
> CFNetwork could navigate to an incorrect server.
> CVE-ID
> CVE-2011-3246 : Erling Ellingsen of Facebook
>
> CoreGraphics
> Available for: iOS 3.0 through 5.0 for iPhone 3GS,
> iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S,
> iOS 3.1 through 5.0 for iPod touch (3rd generation) and later,
> iOS 3.2 through 5.0 for iPad, iOS 4.3 through 5.0 for iPad 2
> Impact: Viewing a document containing a maliciously crafted font may
> lead to arbitrary code execution
> Description: Multiple memory corruption issues existed in FreeType,
> the most serious of which may lead to arbitrary code execution when
> processing a maliciously crafted font.
> CVE-ID
> CVE-2011-3439 : Apple
>
> Data Security
> Available for: iOS 3.0 through 5.0 for iPhone 3GS,
> iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S,
> iOS 3.1 through 5.0 for iPod touch (3rd generation) and later,
> iOS 3.2 through 5.0 for iPad, iOS 4.3 through 5.0 for iPad 2
> Impact: An attacker with a privileged network position may intercept
> user credentials or other sensitive information
> Description: Two certificate authorities in the list of trusted root
> certificates have independently issued intermediate certificates to
> DigiCert Malaysia. DigiCert Malaysia has issued certificates with
> weak keys that it is unable to revoke. An attacker with a privileged
> network position could intercept user credentials or other sensitive
> information intended for a site with a certificate issued by DigiCert
> Malaysia. This issue is addressed by configuring default system trust
> settings so that DigiCert Malaysia's certificates are not trusted. We
> would like to acknowledge Bruce Morton of Entrust, Inc. for reporting
> this issue.
>
> Kernel
> Available for: iOS 3.0 through 5.0 for iPhone 3GS,
> iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S,
> iOS 3.1 through 5.0 for iPod touch (3rd generation) and later,
> iOS 3.2 through 5.0 for iPad, iOS 4.3 through 5.0 for iPad 2
> Impact: An application may execute unsigned code
> Description: A logic error existed in the mmap system call's
> checking of valid flag combinations. This issue may lead to a bypass
> of codesigning checks. This issue does not affect devices running
> iOS prior to version 4.3.
> CVE-ID
> CVE-2011-3442 : Charlie Miller of Accuvant Labs
>
> libinfo
> Available for: iOS 3.0 through 5.0 for iPhone 3GS,
> iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S,
> iOS 3.1 through 5.0 for iPod touch (3rd generation) and later,
> iOS 3.2 through 5.0 for iPad, iOS 4.3 through 5.0 for iPad 2
> Impact: Visiting a maliciously crafted website may lead to the
> disclosure of sensitive information
> Description: An issue existed in libinfo's handling of DNS name
> lookups. When resolving a maliciously crafted hostname, libinfo could
> return an incorrect result.
> CVE-ID
> CVE-2011-3441 : Erling Ellingsen of Facebook, Per Johansson of
> Blocket AB
>
> Passcode Lock
> Available for: iOS 4.3 through 5.0 for iPad 2
> Impact: A person with physical access to a locked iPad 2 may be able
> to access some of the user's data
> Description: When a Smart Cover is opened while iPad 2 is confirming
> power off in the locked state, the iPad does not request a passcode.
> This allows some access to the iPad, but data protected by Data
> Protection is inaccessible and apps cannot be launched.
> CVE-ID
> CVE-2011-3440
>
> --
> Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as
> People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

JKConey

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Nov 10, 2011, 2:43:44 PM11/10/11

to

"Michelle Steiner" wrote in message
news:michelle-830E2F...@news.eternal-september.org...

APPLE-SA-2011-11-10-1 iOS 5.0.1 Software Update

iOS 5.0.1 Software Update is now available and addresses the
following:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

DO NOT update to this if you're interested in an untethered jailbreak
anytime soon. I read there's a hole in 5.0 that was covered up in 5.0.1

salgud

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Nov 10, 2011, 3:11:15 PM11/10/11

to

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:57:01 -0700, Michelle Steiner wrote:

> In article <michelle-830E2F...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
>

>> APPLE-SA-2011-11-10-1 iOS 5.0.1 Software Update
>

> And it can be installed over the internet without using a computer and
> iTunes, just like Apple said it would.

I'm guessing you have to have iCloud running to do that, don't you?

Alan Browne

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Nov 10, 2011, 3:16:33 PM11/10/11

to

On 2011-11-10 13:57 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article<michelle-830E2F...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Michelle Steiner<mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>> APPLE-SA-2011-11-10-1 iOS 5.0.1 Software Update
>
> And it can be installed over the internet without using a computer and
> iTunes, just like Apple said it would.

Yep - doing it via WiFi.

--
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.

Message has been deleted

jc

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Nov 10, 2011, 3:28:16 PM11/10/11

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On Nov 10, 2:11 pm, salgud <spamboy6...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:57:01 -0700, Michelle Steiner wrote:

> > In article <michelle-830E2F.11554710112...@news.eternal-september.org>,

> > Michelle Steiner <miche...@michelle.org> wrote:
>
> >> APPLE-SA-2011-11-10-1 iOS 5.0.1 Software Update
>
> > And it can be installed over the internet without using a computer and
> > iTunes, just like Apple said it would.
>
> I'm guessing you have to have iCloud running to do that, don't you?

No, just WiFi. It appears under "Settings->general->software update".

I just did it and it worked perfectly.

-jc

Alan Browne

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Nov 10, 2011, 3:31:16 PM11/10/11

to

On 2011-11-10 13:57 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article<michelle-830E2F...@news.eternal-september.org>,

> Michelle Steiner<mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>> APPLE-SA-2011-11-10-1 iOS 5.0.1 Software Update
>
> And it can be installed over the internet without using a computer and
> iTunes, just like Apple said it would.

Did the DL by WiFi but refused to install with the battery at less than 50%.

salgud

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Nov 10, 2011, 3:46:33 PM11/10/11

to

Just added it to my Reminders to do when I get home, with my new 32G iPhone
4S

salgud

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Nov 10, 2011, 3:47:43 PM11/10/11

to

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:31:16 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:

> On 2011-11-10 13:57 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
>> In article<michelle-830E2F...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> Michelle Steiner<mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
>>
>>> APPLE-SA-2011-11-10-1 iOS 5.0.1 Software Update
>>
>> And it can be installed over the internet without using a computer and
>> iTunes, just like Apple said it would.
>
> Did the DL by WiFi but refused to install with the battery at less than 50%.

Probably not a good thing to run out of juice just as an OS upgrade is
installing!

salgud

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Nov 10, 2011, 3:48:08 PM11/10/11

to

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:18:35 -0700, Michelle Steiner wrote:

> In article <b6m3jjfdeied$.yqr34bgq...@40tude.net>,

> salgud <spamb...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>> And it can be installed over the internet without using a computer and
>>> iTunes, just like Apple said it would.
>>
>> I'm guessing you have to have iCloud running to do that, don't you?
>

> Nope.
>
> Or should I say "rubbish!"? ;)

There's a lot of it around here...

Alan Browne

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Nov 10, 2011, 4:31:00 PM11/10/11

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I agree - but for the speed this one occurred, the 20% or so left would
not have been an issue.

Message has been deleted

Alan Browne

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Nov 10, 2011, 6:03:01 PM11/10/11

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On 2011-11-10 16:40 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article<bbednQLIgsQJ3yHT...@giganews.com>,

> Alan Browne<alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> I agree - but for the speed this one occurred, the 20% or so left would
>> not have been an issue.
>

> It still would have used power while installing after downloading the file.

Ya think? Point is 20% in this case was enough. It only took a copule
minutes to install after the DL.

Lu Powell

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Nov 10, 2011, 7:30:36 PM11/10/11

to

Democrats love free speech unless it's a Republican speaking - then it's
hate speech.

"Michelle Steiner" wrote in message
news:michelle-830E2F...@news.eternal-september.org...

APPLE-SA-2011-11-10-1 iOS 5.0.1 Software Update

iOS 5.0.1 Software Update is now available and addresses the
following:

Message has been deleted

Todd Allcock

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Nov 10, 2011, 8:51:29 PM11/10/11

to

At 10 Nov 2011 19:30:36 -0500 Lu Powell wrote:
> Democrats love free speech unless it's a Republican speaking - then
> it's hate speech.

Republicans don't always spout hate speech, sometimes they spout
ignorance instead. ;)

George Kerby

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Nov 10, 2011, 9:34:39 PM11/10/11

to

On 11/10/11 7:04 PM, in article
michelle-6F9925...@news.eternal-september.org, "Michelle
Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <O0_uq.15006$am1....@newsfe05.iad>,

> "Lu Powell" <lupo...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Democrats love free speech unless it's a Republican speaking - then it's
>> hate speech.
>

> Rubbish!

CALM!
You should open your mind...

George Kerby

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Nov 10, 2011, 9:36:04 PM11/10/11

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On 11/10/11 7:51 PM, in article j9hv5d$pak$1...@dont-email.me, "Todd Allcock"

Another moronic LibTalk statement. What else can we for?!?

Message has been deleted

dfn4d+gn

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Nov 10, 2011, 10:11:03 PM11/10/11

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"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:michelle-09153A...@news.eternal-september.org...
|| Mazel tov on getting the new phone.

Mazel tov ?... As I speak english, I am not familiar with "Mazel tov". Are
you of Palestinian or Iranian background?

Message has been deleted

DevilsPGD

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Nov 10, 2011, 11:09:45 PM11/10/11

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In message <michelle-79896C...@news.eternal-september.org>
someone claiming to be Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> typed:

>In article <bbednQLIgsQJ3yHT...@giganews.com>,
> Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>

>> I agree - but for the speed this one occurred, the 20% or so left would
>> not have been an issue.
>

>It still would have used power while installing after downloading the file.

My iPhone 4 ran through about 8% including the download. However, there
might be bigger updates down the road.

20% might or might not be safe for this one since battery meters aren't
entirely linear, but larger updates could easily need a lot more. 50%
seems reasonable.

--
It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to
steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it.

Todd Allcock

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Nov 11, 2011, 12:59:55 AM11/11/11

to

I don't really believe that, (hence the smiley) but I was just firing a
shot across "Lu's" bow.

Attacking a political statement with another is one thing, but attacking
Michelle's politics in two replies to on-topic, informative posts that
didn't mention politics at all was uncalled for. Presumably Lu was
taking issue with Michelle's sig, which isn't relevent.

While my politics mostly lean left, both parties have more than their
fair share of morons and closed-minded zealots. (Though, frankly, good
luck in 2012 kids, if the likes of Cain, Perry, and Romney are your first
string players. The Dems could bring back Dukakis and still beat any of
that bunch.)

Todd Allcock

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Nov 11, 2011, 1:03:41 AM11/11/11

to

At 10 Nov 2011 19:47:50 -0700 Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article <CAE1E634.7B64F%ghost_...@hotmail.com>,

> George Kerby <ghost_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> Democrats love free speech unless it's a Republican speaking - then
> > >> it's hate speech.
> > >
> > >
> > > Republicans don't always spout hate speech, sometimes they spout
> > > ignorance instead. ;)
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Another moronic LibTalk statement. What else can we for?!?
>

> Republicans have some good ideas; they repealed the national 55 MPH
speed
> limit, for instance.
>
> Of course, it was Republican Richard Nixon's idea to begin with...

Ironically, Nixon was probably the best Republican president we've had in
the last 50 years.

Jolly Roger

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Nov 11, 2011, 3:34:43 AM11/11/11

to

In article <CAE1E634.7B64F%ghost_...@hotmail.com>,
George Kerby <ghost_...@hotmail.com> wrote:

While both sides of that silly struggle are guilty of hate speech and
ignorance, Republicans seem to be spewing more than their fair share as
of late.

--
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR

Message has been deleted

Todd Allcock

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Nov 11, 2011, 8:16:32 AM11/11/11

to

At 11 Nov 2011 02:51:16 -0800 no_...@home.com wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 23:03:41 -0700, Todd Allcock
<elecc...@AnoOspamL.com>

> A crook was the best US President?
>
> Now that's a laugh for sure.

No, I said best *Republican* president...

If you look past his transgressions, he was remarkably effective in some
areas. And not to start a flamefest, but considering what some of the
more recent office holders have gotten away with, I'm not sure history
will consider Nixon's crimes all that damning... :(

George Kerby

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Nov 11, 2011, 9:02:23 AM11/11/11

to

On 11/10/11 11:59 PM, in article j9idsa$uhi$2...@dont-email.me, "Todd Allcock"

We will see.

George Kerby

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Nov 11, 2011, 9:03:52 AM11/11/11

to

On 11/11/11 12:03 AM, in article j9idsb$uhi$3...@dont-email.me, "Todd Allcock"

Now I *know* that you are having trouble getting your tongue outta your
cheek...

George Kerby

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Nov 11, 2011, 9:05:40 AM11/11/11

to

On 11/11/11 2:34 AM, in article
jollyroger-3DA71...@news.individual.net, "Jolly Roger"

<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> In article <CAE1E634.7B64F%ghost_...@hotmail.com>,
> George Kerby <ghost_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/10/11 7:51 PM, in article j9hv5d$pak$1...@dont-email.me, "Todd Allcock"
>> <elecc...@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
>>
>>> At 10 Nov 2011 19:30:36 -0500 Lu Powell wrote:
>>>> Democrats love free speech unless it's a Republican speaking - then
>>>> it's hate speech.
>>>
>>>
>>> Republicans don't always spout hate speech, sometimes they spout
>>> ignorance instead. ;)
>>
>> Another moronic LibTalk statement. What else can we for?!?
>
> While both sides of that silly struggle are guilty of hate speech and
> ignorance, Republicans seem to be spewing more than their fair share as
> of late.

Like Wes said:

<http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW?itemid=99>

Perspective is the name of the game...

unread,

Nov 11, 2011, 1:29:33 PM11/11/11

to

Philo D wrote:
> If Michelle puts a political jab in the sig on her message, she invites
> the thread to veer into political hot air. Many threads do that
> anyway, but in this case we can blame Michelle. Or, if you like, we can
> credit Michelle.

Michelle has made her politicial affiliation very clear with that sig. I
have seen other posters elsewhere who make their affiliation with that
other party very clear (or support firearms, anti abortion etc which are
associated with the republicans).

I don't need to harp on someone's signature, but might make a joke about
it now and then.

However, in this debate, I will say this:

The democrats tend to have a more united group of followers. The
Republicans seem to be divided into 2 groups:

-the "true" free enterprise republicans

-the "anti" people who have a pet peave (anti abortion, anti gay, anti
communism, anti-this, anti that) and whom the republicans covet because
the democratic party doesn't cater to them. Often, one such pet peave
is enough to blind the voter into supporting Republicans despite being
against all their other policies. (so n anti-abortion person woudl vote
repulican even if they are also anti war)

The problem with he republican party catering to the various "anti"
groups is that it does taint its image as also being an "anti" party
since much of their message is against certain people.

JF Mezei

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Nov 11, 2011, 1:32:34 PM11/11/11

to

Michelle Steiner wrote:

> It it weren't for watergate, he'd be the best president we've had since
> Truman.

How would Nixon compare with Clinton at that level ? Close in terms of
how good they were ?

Clinton's indiscretion with the pizza delivery girl didn't really affect
the economy of the country (although it can be argued it helped the
newspapers with the story :-)

George Kerby

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Nov 11, 2011, 2:56:32 PM11/11/11

to

On 11/11/11 12:29 PM, in article
4ebd6991$0$27964$c3e8da3$3863...@news.astraweb.com, "JF Mezei"

<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> Philo D wrote:
>> If Michelle puts a political jab in the sig on her message, she invites
>> the thread to veer into political hot air. Many threads do that
>> anyway, but in this case we can blame Michelle. Or, if you like, we can
>> credit Michelle.
>
>
> Michelle has made her politicial affiliation very clear with that sig. I
> have seen other posters elsewhere who make their affiliation with that
> other party very clear (or support firearms, anti abortion etc which are
> associated with the republicans).
>
> I don't need to harp on someone's signature, but might make a joke about
> it now and then.
>
> However, in this debate, I will say this:
>
> The democrats tend to have a more united group of followers.

Tell that to the Democrats who forced The Resident to postpone any decision
about the Canadian pipeline to after the 2012 election, LOL!

"CHANGE!" The irony...

George Kerby

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Nov 11, 2011, 2:57:44 PM11/11/11

to

On 11/11/11 12:32 PM, in article
4ebd6a44$0$27964$c3e8da3$3863...@news.astraweb.com, "JF Mezei"

There was another Bimbo for Bubba?!?

Man, I need a scorecard!

Your Name

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Nov 11, 2011, 4:20:54 PM11/11/11

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Nov 11, 2011, 7:38:56 PM11/11/11

to

In article
<yourname-121...@203-118-184-109.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>,

your...@yourisp.com (Your Name) wrote:

> In article
> <971fd382-a796-46b1...@3g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>, jc
> <cire...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > In addition to these issues, the big thing is that it addresses the
> > battery problems.
>
> Apparently some people are still reporting battery issues. This is from
> MacRumors.com's ...

In my case it actually *introduced* battery issues where I had none with
iOS 5.0. Luckily a simple restore fixed that problem. I've ben at 100%
all day today. : ) If you experience faster battery drainage than
normal, I highly recommend giving a restore a shot.

Leonard Blaisdell

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Nov 12, 2011, 2:43:35 AM11/12/11

to

In article <11t8pfztqua3g$.1wsyy309...@40tude.net>,
salgud <spamb...@comcast.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:31:16 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:

> > Did the DL by WiFi but refused to install with the battery at less than 50%.
>
> Probably not a good thing to run out of juice just as an OS upgrade is
> installing!

I agree but I was reckless after reading this thread. I downloaded at 18
percent battery and the OS update downloaded perfectly. The download
drained 1 percent, and I was cuttin' a fat hog, I thought. The damned
download wouldn't update until I plugged in. I'm tellin' ya, I could'a
made it! The update took about two minutes after the plug in.
Everything appears OK. I love life on the edge. I'm still jittery from
the experience.

leo

Chris Blunt

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Nov 13, 2011, 12:43:26 AM11/13/11

to

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 18:38:56 -0600, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com>
wrote:

>In article
><yourname-121...@203-118-184-109.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>,
> your...@yourisp.com (Your Name) wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <971fd382-a796-46b1...@3g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>, jc
>> <cire...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > In addition to these issues, the big thing is that it addresses the
>> > battery problems.
>>
>> Apparently some people are still reporting battery issues. This is from
>> MacRumors.com's ...
>
>In my case it actually *introduced* battery issues where I had none with
>iOS 5.0. Luckily a simple restore fixed that problem. I've ben at 100%
>all day today. : ) If you experience faster battery drainage than
>normal, I highly recommend giving a restore a shot.

My experience is the same. I'm sure my battery life is worse after
upgrading to iOS 5.0.1 than it was under 5.0

Chris

Your Name

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Nov 13, 2011, 1:10:41 AM11/13/11

to

In article <k4mub7tonioon738p...@4ax.com>, Chris Blunt

Just one reason why you should never install upgrades on day one. It's
always best to wait at least a few days to see if any problems are
reported by other people silly enough to upgrade instantly. :-)

Jolly Roger

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Nov 13, 2011, 3:50:27 AM11/13/11

to

In article <k4mub7tonioon738p...@4ax.com>,
Chris Blunt <ma...@nospam.com> wrote:

It's seemingly just a bit better than it was in iOS 4 and iOS 5 now for
me, after doing a restore.

John McWilliams

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Nov 13, 2011, 2:54:08 PM11/13/11

to

On 11/12/11 PDT 10:10 PM, Your Name wrote:

>>
>> My experience is the same. I'm sure my battery life is worse after
>> upgrading to iOS 5.0.1 than it was under 5.0
>
> Just one reason why you should never install upgrades on day one. It's
> always best to wait at least a few days to see if any problems are
> reported by other people silly enough to upgrade instantly. :-)

Thank heavens everyone doesn't follow that! No one would upgrade then....

unread,

Nov 14, 2011, 10:21:18 AM11/14/11

to

You're a gutsy guy! Like those guys in the Lipitor commercials. One even
rode his bike down a hill without a helmet!!

Those commercials are so lame. Here's a graying out guy, like me, talking
about riding a bike without a helmet (or ice-skating near the rocks) when
he was young. When we were that age, nobody wore a bike helmet. I don't
think even the pros had them yet. We're talking dark ages here, I know. Our
parents drove us around while we were standing up on the front seat. My
Gawd! They sat us in their laps and we pretended we were driving the car
when we were on back roads with no traffic.

I'm not advocating that parents should do any of these things today, I
certainly didn't when my kids were little. My oldest even came home from
the hospital in a safety seat long before they were common. But we sure
have gotten kinda crazy with this safety stuff.

salgud

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Nov 14, 2011, 10:23:45 AM11/14/11

to

Rubbish!

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Nov 14, 2011, 4:33:17 PM11/14/11

to

Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> writes:

> In article <yourname-151...@203-118-185-95.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>,

> Whatever you want to delude yourself with. :-\

Touche!