Re: Non-Metric Units after 2009-12-31
Klaus von der Heyde
> In Germany non-metric units are not permitted, but still very
> common, e.g. for screen sizes.
And jeans sizes. I have spotted some trousers (and other clothing)
with dual labeling recently, but not always following EN 13402.
Klaus
Peter Niessen
> In Germany non-metric units are not permitted, but still very common,
> e.g. for screen sizes.
>
> There's one exception within the law: they may be used when the official
> number is given as well - and the metric number would have to be more
> highlighted.
>
> Some very special and frequently abused part of the German law system
> are "Abmahnungen" (costly warning letters, cease & desist). The former,
> good and reasonable idea that no one is permitted to have an illegal
> advantage by incorrect behavior is now perverted to cause damage.
>
> Thus next year many dealers would face major problems if they will not
> use metric units only(!?)...
>
> http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/einhv/__3.html
>
> - Martin
If I see Abmahnung as useful, it would be here.
Cheers, Peter.
Jukka K. Korpela
> In Germany non-metric units are not permitted, but still very common,
> e.g. for screen sizes.
>
> There's one exception within the law: they may be used when the
> official number is given as well - and the metric number would have
> to be more highlighted.
I think you misinterpret the laws. The EU directive says that non-metric
units are permitted, until the end of this year, provided that they are used
along with metric units and are not more prominent than them. I don't think
you can have national legislation that imposes further restrictions, as that
would violate the holy principles of the EU.
> Thus next year many dealers would face major problems if they will
> not use metric units only(!?)...
>
> http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/einhv/__3.html
Maybe. Maybe not. I'm afraid the forced move to metric only will be watered
down by changing the EU legislation. Moreover, the rules haven't really been
enforced. It's not uncommon to see, for example, packages that declare the
energy value of foods in kcal only, even without mentioning the quantity in
metric units.
--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Klaus von der Heyde
> It's not uncommon to see, for example,
> packages that declare the energy value of foods in kcal only, even
> without mentioning the quantity in metric units.
I suspect that only a limited number of people in Germany actually
knows what either kcal or kJ mean. The younger ones should have
learnt about Joule in school, but it is certainly a unit one does not
encounter frequently (aside from certain jobs). Remember that
electrical energy is measured in (k)Wh in Germany. Do not say that
only "imperial" has its quirks ... ;)
Klaus
Jukka K. Korpela
>>> There's one exception within the law: they may be used when the
>>> official number is given as well - and the metric number would have
>>> to be more highlighted.
>>
>> I think you misinterpret the laws. The EU directive says that
>> non-metric units are permitted, until the end of this year,
>> provided that they are used along with metric units and are not
>> more prominent than them.
>
> What's the difference to what I said?
The difference between more highlighted and not less prominent. That is,
your formulation forbids equally prominent presentation. This is essential,
since all cases I've ever seen have equally prominent presentation (assuming
we don't regard order as relevant here).
> You mean it's a European law, not just German?
No, I mean it is a EU directive, which means that member countries must have
national legislation that implements its content - though some contries
sometimes fail to obey the directives.
> I agree - but I do not know the matching European
> legislation.
The consolidated English version of the directive:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/site/en/consleg/1980/L/01980L0181-20000209-en.pdf
More info about the process:
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/prepack/unitmeas/uni_ms_en.htm
> National laws may differ in details, especially when
> dates are given and each country may define its own speed.
In this issue, national laws may differ only as allowed by the directive.
> How about the procedure in Great Britain? Do they have to print 568 ml
> on each pint sized glass?
You may prepare glasses of any size. What matters, legally speaking, is how
you sell goods.
--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Christoph Päper
> On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 20:52:07 +0200, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
>> Martin Trautmann wrote:
>>> How about the procedure in Great Britain? Do they have to print 568 ml
>>> on each pint sized glass?
>
>> You may prepare glasses of any size. What matters, legally speaking, is how
>> you sell goods.
>
The Eichstrich, sadly and strangely, is a very German phenomenon.
For those not used to it: in Germany every glass used for serving in
pubs and restaurants bears a mark indicating the capacity at that fill
height, and also the manufacturer signet. (See <http://
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BCllstrich> for a picture, there doesn't
seem to be a Wikipedia article in English on that.)
It would probably be a good thing to have a half-litre mark on UK pint
glasses, not a 1-pint one. Actually I don't see why this calibration
mark is not subject to EU-wide legislation.
Jukka K. Korpela
> Article 3, Section 4:
> "The indication expressed in a [metric unic] shall predominate".
>
> What does this mean?
You might take it at face value, or you might read the sequel (see later).
> What does "shall" mean here, what if it does not
> predominate?
Then you're violating the directive. The implications depend on national
legislation.
> Next sentence:
> "In particular, the indications in [non-metric units] shall be
> expressed in characters no larger than those of the corresponding
> indication in [metric units]."
That's operational, whereas "predominate" is a loose expression.
> Sentence one says predominate, sentence two says same size is still ok
> (until 2009-12-31)?
Thus, equal size means predomination. War is peace.
>>> How about the procedure in Great Britain? Do they have to print 568
>>> ml on each pint sized glass?
>>
>> You may prepare glasses of any size. What matters, legally
>> speaking, is how you sell goods.
>
> I meant the glasses used within a pub, where they do sell goods.
Well, you wrote about glasses, didn't you? So please don't blame me for
answering what you actually asked.
--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Epiphany
> The Eichstrich, sadly and strangely, is a very German phenomenon.
>
> For those not used to it: in Germany every glass used for serving in
> pubs and restaurants bears a mark indicating the capacity at that fill
> height, and also the manufacturer signet. (See <http://
> de.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BCllstrich> for a picture, there doesn't
> seem to be a Wikipedia article in English on that.)
Is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pint_glass the sort of article you were
seeking? I know it's not a translation of Eichstrich, but it covers the
idea.