PRESS RELEASE Wikipedia “Satanic Ritual Abuse” article promotes PEDOPHILIA
childadvocate
Wikipedia “Satanic Ritual Abuse” article promotes PEDOPHILIA
For Immediate Release
Contact: S.M.A.R.T.
Email: smar...@aol.com
http://ritualabuse.us
November 8, 2008. Easthampton, MA:
Intimidation, bullying, sarcasm: such are the tactics used by the
current editors of Wikipedia’s “Satanic Ritual Abuse” article (and
other related articles) to promote pedophilia: (1) by discounting the
existence of sexual crimes against children associated with true or
staged satanic worship; and (2) by undoing all references in Wikipedia
articles by editors who present findings from research and legal cases
that support the existence of ritual/sexual crimes against children by
organized groups of pedophiles. (See article and discussion pages at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse).
The article describes Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) as “a moral panic.”
References by persons associated with child pornography or false
memory type organizations that have been known to defend accused and
convicted pedophiles, make it appear that the article is structured to
cover up for pedophiles and their criminal perversions.
Findings from the 2007 international online Extreme Abuse Survey
(http://extreme-abuse-survey.net) indicate that satanic ritual abuse
is widespread. Of 1471 respondents from 31 countries who reported
extreme abuse in childhood, 543 reported that they were ritually
abused in a satanic cult. This number of SRA reports cited from a
highly credible source, Karnac Books, of London was among many
findings supporting the existence of ritual abuse deleted by editors
who consider such viewpoints as having a “fringe focus.”
When children disclose to trusted persons that they have been
physically and sexually tortured by groups of pedophiles using satanic
garb and accoutrements, it is reasonable to assume that those persons
would turn to the Internet to learn more about such bizarre reports.
Because of this entry’s heavily-biased portrayal against the reality
of satanic ritual abuse, the bodies, minds, and souls of terrified
children – who may under threat of death tell about the perverted acts
of their perpetrators using satanic rituals – are placed in jeopardy.
For a research-based rebuttal to Wikipedia’s article, “Satanic Ritual
Abuse,” see The Truth about Satanic Ritual Abuse (http://
ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/the-truth-about-satanic-ritual-
abuse).
Greegor
> PRESS RELEASE
>
> Wikipedia “Satanic Ritual Abuse” article promotes PEDOPHILIA
>
> For Immediate Release
>
> Contact: S.M.A.R.T.
>
> November 8, 2008. Easthampton, MA:
> Intimidation, bullying, sarcasm: such are the tactics used by the
> current editors of Wikipedia’s “Satanic Ritual Abuse” article (and
> other related articles) to promote pedophilia: (1) by discounting the
> existence of sexual crimes against children associated with true or
> staged satanic worship; and (2) by undoing all references in Wikipedia
> articles by editors who present findings from research and legal cases
> that support the existence of ritual/sexual crimes against children by
He says the proof is on his website, then when you
go to the website it says the proof is on his Youtube Video,
but it refers back to the web site for the proof.
Any information which fails to support his crusade
is viewed as a conspiracy by perpetrators
of ritual satanic child abuse.
He described that modus operandi outright.
Does that mean that the FBI itself is perpetrators?
An FBI report from the 1980's refutes the idea of RSCA.
He's throwing some sort of seminars about RSCA
and Mind Control, but states outright that
doubters are not welcome and would be ejected.
Who is this guy pushing this?
What is his background, motivation, etc?
Here he rails against Wikipedia and accuses
them of being sympathetic to perpetrators.
How big is this kooky WITCH HUNT anyway?
Kent Wills
wrote:
I've added the Lar$on group since Lar$on used to thrive on the
whole SRA thing. He even had some books ghost-written about the
topic. Dead Air is one of them.
[...]
>> For a research-based rebuttal to Wikipedia’s article, “Satanic Ritual
>> Abuse,” see The Truth about Satanic Ritual Abuse (http://
>> ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/the-truth-about-satanic-ritual-
>> abuse).
>
>He says the proof is on his website, then when you
>go to the website it says the proof is on his Youtube Video,
>but it refers back to the web site for the proof.
>
>Any information which fails to support his crusade
>is viewed as a conspiracy by perpetrators
>of ritual satanic child abuse.
>
>He described that modus operandi outright.
>
>Does that mean that the FBI itself is perpetrators?
>An FBI report from the 1980's refutes the idea of RSCA.
It's not difficult to accept that some people committed acts that
would be consistent with a claim of SRA. Given human nature, there
are bound to be people who have done it, are doing it, and will do it.
However, it's certainly not as wide spread or organized as some,
like Lar$on and Diana, wanted and want people to believe.
>
>He's throwing some sort of seminars about RSCA
>and Mind Control, but states outright that
>doubters are not welcome and would be ejected.
Which is really dumb. If one actually believes something is
happening, wouldn't it stand to reason that he would want to share the
evidence with those who question? Converting someone who questions
it is better than solidifying their doubt.
>
>Who is this guy pushing this?
>What is his background, motivation, etc?
>
>Here he rails against Wikipedia and accuses
>them of being sympathetic to perpetrators.
>
>How big is this kooky WITCH HUNT anyway?
It's very minor. Most have come to realize that those who were
abused in a manner consistent with SRA were the victims of individual
psychos and not a grand conspiracy.
--
A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting.
Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)?
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
childadvocate
and it doesn't simply refer people back and forth to different sites.
And the numbers below show clearly that it is not minor, with numbers
of cases in the thousands.
What I actually stated was that discounting and hiding ritual abuse
crimes promotes pedophilia, which it does. It allows pedophiles to
continue to abuse children, as children that come forward will not be
believed.
The conference is for survivors of abuse. It is not a public forum.
Current perpetrators are not allowed at the conference.
Our motivation is to stop child abuse. The wikipedia satanic ritual
abuse article in its present form clearly promotes these crimes, since
it does not acknowledge their existence.
And name calling and ad hominem attacks only discredit the user of
them.
data:
see http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/
Lists of legal cases:
Believe the children (1997). “Conviction List: Ritual Child Abuse”.
http://www.ra-info.org/resources/ra_cases.shtml
The Satanism and Ritual Abuse Archive” is published on the world-wide
web at: This archive contains 92 cases as of February 12, 2008.
http://www.endritualabuse.org/ritualabusearchive.htm
Web pages proving the existence of ritual abuse:
Noblitt, PhD, J. R. - An Empirical Look at the Ritual Abuse
Controversy (2007)
http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/an-empirical-look-at-the-ritual-abuse-controversy-randy-noblitt-phd/
Another survey investigated reports of sexual and ritual abuse made to
British psychologists (Andrews, Morton, Bekerian, Brewin, Davies, &
Mollon, 1995). Of 810 British Psychological Society practitioners who
had seen sexually abused clients, the investigators found that 15% had
worked with clients reporting satanic ritual abuse. Eighty percent of
the psychologists who had seen one or more individuals with a stated
history of satanic ritual abuse believed the allegations. In their
national investigation of 270 cases of substantiated sexual abuse of
1,639 children in day care, Finkelhor, Williams, and Burns (1988)
found 13% of the cases involved allegations of ritual abuse. According
to Jonker and Jonker-Bakker, “The National Society for the Prevention
of Cruelty to Children in Britain reported in its 1989 Annual Report
that seven out of 66 Child Protection Teams in England and Wales were
currently working with children victimized by ritualistic
abuse” (1997, p. 542). In a survey of the membership of the
International Society for the Study of Multiple Personality and
Dissociation, Perry concluded that 88% of 1185 “respondents reported
belief in ritual abuse, involving mind control and programming” (1992,
p. 4).
Ritual Abuse Bibliography http://www.ra-info.org/library/articles/ra_arti1.shtml
Ritual Abuse Statistics & Research http://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/ra-stats.htm
Searchable releases on satanic ritual abuse http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psnews/
Frequently Asked Questions about Ritual Abuse and Mind Control
http://www.survivorship.org/faq.html
Satanic Ritual Abuse: The Evidence Surfaces By Daniel Ryder, CCDC, LSW
http://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/ra-evidence-surfaces.htm
2008 Publications on Ritual Abuse and Mind Control
http://www.endritualabuse.org/citation 2.htm
Lacter, E (2008-02-11). “Brief Synopsis of the Literature on
theExistence of Ritualistic Abuse”. http://endritualabuse.org/BriefSynopsis.htm
A 1993 survey by the American Bar Association's Center on Children and
Family Law determined that 26 percent of prosecutors nationwide have
handled cases involving "ritualistic or sexual abuse." (Ross, 1994).
Bottoms, Shaver and Goodman in their 1993 study to evaluate ritual
abuse claims found that in 2,292 alleged ritual abuse cases, 15% of
the perpetrators in adult cases and 30% of the perpetrators in child
cases confessed to the abuse. Data from Brown, Scheflin and Hammond
(1998).”Memory, Trauma Treatment, And the Law” (W. W. Norton) ISBN
0-393-70254-5 (p.62) Bottoms, B. Shaver, P. & Goodman, G. (1993)
Profile of ritual abuse and religion related abuse allegations in the
United States. Updated findings provided via personal communication
from B. Bottoms. Cited in K.C. Faller (1994), Ritual Abuse; A Review
of the research. The American Professional Society on the Abuse of
Children Advisor , 7, 1, 19-27
On Page 170 (first edition), of Cult and Ritual Abuse - Noblitt and
Perskin(Praeger, 1995) states “One of the best sources of evaluative
research on ritual abuse is the article “Ritual Abuse: A Review of
Research” by Kathleen Coulborn Faller (1994)….in a survey of 2,709
members of the American Psychological Association, it was found that
30 percent of these professionals had seen cases of ritual or religion-
related abuse (Bottoms, Shaver & Goodman, 1991). Of those
psychologists who have seen cases of ritual abuse, 93 percent believed
that the reported harm took place and 93 percent believed that the
alleged ritualism occurred. This is a remarkable finding. Mental
health professionals are known to be divergent in their thinking and
frequently do not agree with one another regarding questions of the
diagnosis and etiology of psychiatric problems…this level of
concurrence in a large national sample of psychologists…would be
impressive….the similar research of Nancy Perry (1992) which further
supports (the previous findings)…Perry also conducted a national
survey of therapists who work with clients with dissociative disorders
and she found that 88 percent of the 1,185 respondents indicated
”belief in ritual abuse, involving mind control and programming” (p.
3).”
Recent worldwide survey of ritual abuse
The Extreme Abuse Survey final results are online with
findings,questionnaires and presentations for download as pdf-files.
More than 750 pages of documentation http://extreme-abuse-survey.net/
krp
"childadvocate" <smar...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0d9447c5-a4e3-418a...@h23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
In reply, the website (http://ritualabuse.us) has a great deal of data
and it doesn't simply refer people back and forth to different sites.
Yes UNRELIABLE data!
Dan Sullivan
> "childadvocate" <smartn...@aol.com> wrote in message
Like the A-Team and krpconsulting websites.
FULL of unreliable information and the websites refer people back and
forth between them.
krp
"Dan Sullivan" <dsul...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:a6b8fbd8-d283-431f...@w1g2000prk.googlegroups.com...
Don't bother about the mental checkup Danny. It's WAY too late for you.
Dan Sullivan
> "Dan Sullivan" <dsull...@optonline.net> wrote in message
Are you going to claim you have a "Cum Laude" degree in psychology
now, kenny boy?
krp
Do I have to?
Dan Sullivan
> "Dan Sullivan" <dsull...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>
> news:8c34a6b8-0715-4ffe...@w24g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 9, 5:00 pm, " krp" <kr...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Dan Sullivan" <dsull...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:a6b8fbd8-d283-431f...@w1g2000prk.googlegroups.com...
> > On Nov 9, 4:29 pm, " krp" <kr...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > "childadvocate" <smartn...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:0d9447c5-a4e3-418a...@h23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> > > In reply, the website (http://ritualabuse.us) has a great deal of data
> > > and it doesn't simply refer people back and forth to different sites.
>
> > > Yes UNRELIABLE data!
>
> > Like the A-Team and krpconsulting websites.
>
> > FULL of unreliable information and the websites refer people back and
> > forth between them.
>
> > Don't bother about the mental checkup Danny. It's WAY too late for you.
>
> < Are you going to claim you have a "Cum Laude" degree in psychology
> < now, kenny boy?
>
> Do I have to?
No one believes anything you've said or written so far, kenny boy.
freedom
It wouldn't really matter whether you did or not.
http://docs.aboutkenpangborn.com contains a copy of your CV which proves,
conclusively, that you don't hold such a degree from any accredited
university.
http://www.aboutkenpangborn.com
The truth about Kenneth Pangborn, who supports convicted child sex
criminals
"The FACT is that [my mail-order wife Barbara Sanciprian] and I were
introduced in the FORMAL Spanish tradition by mutual friends, and were
married first in Cuba after 2 year courtship."
- --Ken Pangborn, admitting that he began cheating on his wife Peggy on
September 28, 2001, nearly two years before she separated from him
"I'm David Moore and I am insane!"
- --Ken Pangborn posting to alt.dads-rights.unmoderated, attempting to claim
that his name is David Moore
"If you call the police, I'll knock out all of your teeth, I'll cripple
you. I may go to prison for it, but when I get out, I'll be able to walk,
but you will still be a cripple."
- --Pangborn puppet Greg Hanson of alt.support.child-protective-services **,
in a verbal threat to his girlfriend
"...my aunt wouldnt come over to our house anymore because of how he would
talk to her and come on to her....and he had over 180 pictures of her on
his computer"
- --Ken Pangborn's former stepdaughter Megan, on growing up in the Pangborn
household
** - this conclusion was reached via applying Ken and Greg's logic
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krp
> > > In reply, the website (http://ritualabuse.us) has a great deal of data
> > > and it doesn't simply refer people back and forth to different sites.
>
> > > Yes UNRELIABLE data!
>
> > Like the A-Team and krpconsulting websites.
>
> > FULL of unreliable information and the websites refer people back and
> > forth between them.
>
> > Don't bother about the mental checkup Danny. It's WAY too late for you.
>
> < Are you going to claim you have a "Cum Laude" degree in psychology
> < now, kenny boy?
>
> Do I have to?
< No one believes anything you've said or written so far, kenny boy.
VASTLY more than believe YOU today Danny.
krp
"freedom" <about...@aboutISkenApangbornFRAUD.com> wrote in message
news:A7FLCJPR39762.4033564815@reece.net.au...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> > In reply, the website (http://ritualabuse.us) has a great deal of data
>>> > and it doesn't simply refer people back and forth to different sites.
>>>
>>> > Yes UNRELIABLE data!
>>>
>>> Like the A-Team and krpconsulting websites.
>>>
>>> FULL of unreliable information and the websites refer people back and
>>> forth between them.
>>>
>>> Don't bother about the mental checkup Danny. It's WAY too late for you.
>>
>>< Are you going to claim you have a "Cum Laude" degree in psychology
>>
>>< now, kenny boy?
>>
>> Do I have to?
>
> It wouldn't really matter whether you did or not.
> http://docs.aboutken contains a copy of your CV which proves,
> conclusively, that you don't hold such a degree from any accredited
> university.
More of YOUR handiwork Davey. Not MY CV but a DOCTORED ONE.
freedom
It's the CV which you gave to the Texas Criminal Defense Lawyers
Association. Which is why you altered the link above: you don't want
people to see it. No matter, I'll simply repost it:
http://docs.aboutkenpangborn.com
http://www.aboutkenpangborn.com
The truth about Kenneth Pangborn, who supports convicted child sex
criminals
"The FACT is that [my mail-order wife Barbara Sanciprian] and I were
introduced in the FORMAL Spanish tradition by mutual friends, and were
married first in Cuba after 2 year courtship."
- --Ken Pangborn, admitting that he began cheating on his wife Peggy on
September 28, 2001, nearly two years before she separated from him
"I'm David Moore and I am insane!"
- --Ken Pangborn posting to alt.dads-rights.unmoderated, attempting to claim
that his name is David Moore
"If you call the police, I'll knock out all of your teeth, I'll cripple
you. I may go to prison for it, but when I get out, I'll be able to walk,
but you will still be a cripple."
- --Pangborn puppet Greg Hanson of alt.support.child-protective-services **,
in a verbal threat to his girlfriend
"...my aunt wouldnt come over to our house anymore because of how he would
talk to her and come on to her....and he had over 180 pictures of her on
his computer"
- --Ken Pangborn's former stepdaughter Megan, on growing up in the Pangborn
household
** - this conclusion was reached via applying Ken and Greg's logic
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freedom
On Mon, 10 Nov 2008, " krp" <kr...@verizon.net> wrote:
>DAVID MOORE LIAR
Again, your name is NOT David Moore, regardless of how many times you claim
otherwise.
>"freedom" <about...@aboutISkenApangbornFRAUD.com> wrote in message
>news:0APH93WV3976...@reece.net.au...
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>
>>>>>> > In reply, the website (http://ritualabuse.us) has a great deal of
>>>>>> > data
>>>>>> > and it doesn't simply refer people back and forth to different
>>>>>> > sites.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Yes UNRELIABLE data!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like the A-Team and krpconsulting websites.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FULL of unreliable information and the websites refer people back and
>>>>>> forth between them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't bother about the mental checkup Danny. It's WAY too late for
>>>>>> you.
>>>>>
>>>>>< Are you going to claim you have a "Cum Laude" degree in psychology
>>>>>
>>>>>< now, kenny boy?
>>>>>
>>>>> Do I have to?
>>>>
>>>> It wouldn't really matter whether you did or not.
>>>> http://docs.aboutkenpangborn.com contains a copy of your CV which proves,
>>>> conclusively, that you don't hold such a degree from any accredited
>>>> university.
>>>
>>>More of YOUR handiwork Davey. Not MY CV but a DOCTORED ONE.
>>
>> It's the CV which you gave to the Texas Criminal Defense Lawyers
>> Association.
>
>
>Nope Davey it is YOUR fabrication. I never gave them MY CV.
Ah, yes, that's right. I signed you up, paid hundreds of dollars in
membership fees, and created dozens of pages of a curriculum vitae to give
to them, on the off chance that someone would find it and expose you on it
years later.
ROFL!
http://www.aboutkenpangborn.com
The truth about Kenneth Pangborn, who supports convicted child sex
criminals
"The FACT is that [my mail-order wife Barbara Sanciprian] and I were
introduced in the FORMAL Spanish tradition by mutual friends, and were
married first in Cuba after 2 year courtship."
- --Ken Pangborn, admitting that he began cheating on his wife Peggy on
September 28, 2001, nearly two years before she separated from him
"I'm David Moore and I am insane!"
- --Ken Pangborn posting to alt.dads-rights.unmoderated, attempting to claim
that his name is David Moore
"If you call the police, I'll knock out all of your teeth, I'll cripple
you. I may go to prison for it, but when I get out, I'll be able to walk,
but you will still be a cripple."
- --Pangborn puppet Greg Hanson of alt.support.child-protective-services **,
in a verbal threat to his girlfriend
"...my aunt wouldnt come over to our house anymore because of how he would
talk to her and come on to her....and he had over 180 pictures of her on
his computer"
- --Ken Pangborn's former stepdaughter Megan, on growing up in the Pangborn
household
** - this conclusion was reached via applying Ken and Greg's logic
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Dan Sullivan
" krp" <kr...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:BBXRk.528$mi4...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Kent Wills
<about...@aboutISkenApangbornFRAUD.com> wrote:
[...]
>>>>> It wouldn't really matter whether you did or not.
>>>>> http://docs.aboutkenpangborn.com contains a copy of your CV which proves,
>>>>> conclusively, that you don't hold such a degree from any accredited
>>>>> university.
>>>>
>>>>More of YOUR handiwork Davey. Not MY CV but a DOCTORED ONE.
>>>
>>> It's the CV which you gave to the Texas Criminal Defense Lawyers
>>> Association.
>>
>>
>>Nope Davey it is YOUR fabrication. I never gave them MY CV.
>
>Ah, yes, that's right. I signed you up, paid hundreds of dollars in
>membership fees, and created dozens of pages of a curriculum vitae to give
>to them, on the off chance that someone would find it and expose you on it
>years later.
>
>ROFL!
>
It's all a part of the grand conspiracy, ya know.
I honestly hope that some day Kenny-Bob is able to accept that he
isn't important enough to warrant the conspiracy his paranoia has
created in his mind.
>http://www.aboutkenpangborn.com
>The truth about Kenneth Pangborn, who supports convicted child sex
>criminals
"We'd like to arrange for YOUR rape..."
--Kenneth Robert Pangborn of KRP Consulting, from an argument with a
woman on the talk.rape newsgroup
He admits to authoring the threat here:
http://groups.google.com/group/milw.general/msg/0468b8085d0ee5b5
krp
> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Danny do you still believe you are the hall monitor handing out
passes????
krp
"freedom" <about...@aboutISkenApangbornFRAUD.com> wrote in message
news:UCM5T0Z43976...@reece.net.au...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>>>>>>> > In reply, the website (http://ritualabuse.us) has a great deal of
>>>>>>> > data
>>>>>>> > and it doesn't simply refer people back and forth to different
>>>>>>> > sites.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > Yes UNRELIABLE data!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like the A-Team and krpconsulting websites.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FULL of unreliable information and the websites refer people back
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> forth between them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't bother about the mental checkup Danny. It's WAY too late for
>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>< Are you going to claim you have a "Cum Laude" degree in psychology
>>>>>>
>>>>>>< now, kenny boy?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do I have to?
>>>>>
>>>>> It wouldn't really matter whether you did or not.
>>>>> http://docs.aboutken contains a copy of your CV which proves,
>>>>> conclusively, that you don't hold such a degree from any accredited
>>>>> university.
>>>>
>>>>More of YOUR handiwork Davey. Not MY CV but a DOCTORED ONE.
>>>
>>> It's the CV which you gave to the Texas Criminal Defense Lawyers
>>> Association.
>>
>>
>>Nope Davey it is YOUR fabrication. I never gave them MY CV.
>
> Ah, yes, that's right. I signed you up, paid hundreds of dollars in
> membership fees, and created dozens of pages of a curriculum vitae to give
> to them, on the off chance that someone would find it and expose you on it
> years later.
I am not now nor was I EVER a member of ANY Texas group, criminal
defense lawyers or otherwise. WHO planted that fake CV there is anybody's
guess, but the MOST LIKELY candidate would be YOU! You have a LONG LONG LONG
history, Moore, of forging shit like that. It's your signature technique on
the internet. It is what defines you.
Dan Sullivan
Greegor
> "Dan Sullivan" <dsull...@optonline.net> wrote in message
Dan!
Dan Sullivan
Greegor
Dan Sullivan
freedom
On Mon, 10 Nov 2008, Greegor <Gree...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Dan!
And, Greg pauses his abuse of young girls, long enough to remind us all
that there are people with lower IQs than Ken Pangborn.
http://www.aboutkenpangborn.com
The truth about Kenneth Pangborn, who supports convicted child sex
criminals
"The FACT is that [my mail-order wife Barbara Sanciprian] and I were
introduced in the FORMAL Spanish tradition by mutual friends, and were
married first in Cuba after 2 year courtship."
- --Ken Pangborn, admitting that he began cheating on his wife Peggy on
September 28, 2001, nearly two years before she separated from him
"I'm David Moore and I am insane!"
- --Ken Pangborn posting to alt.dads-rights.unmoderated, attempting to claim
that his name is David Moore
"If you call the police, I'll knock out all of your teeth, I'll cripple
you. I may go to prison for it, but when I get out, I'll be able to walk,
but you will still be a cripple."
- --Pangborn puppet Greg Hanson of alt.support.child-protective-services **,
in a verbal threat to his girlfriend
"...my aunt wouldnt come over to our house anymore because of how he would
talk to her and come on to her....and he had over 180 pictures of her on
his computer"
- --Ken Pangborn's former stepdaughter Megan, on growing up in the Pangborn
household
** - this conclusion was reached via applying Ken and Greg's logic
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krp
"Greegor" <Gree...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:902f455d-da33-4286...@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
< Dan!
Danny is teacher's pet!
krp
"freedom" <about...@aboutISkenApangbornFRAUD.com> wrote in message
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> On Mon, 10 Nov 2008, Greegor <Gree...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Dan!
> And, Greg pauses his abuse of young girls, long enough to remind us all
> that there are people with lower IQs than Ken Pangborn.
But Davey YOU are the one who gets his kicks smacking around little girls.
Kent Wills
Huh?
Whatever drugs you're on, get off of them. If you're not on any,
you may want to start.
Your mind, in its current state, is in bad shape.
"Miranda was a STUPID WASTE OF TIME AND DID NOTHING!"
-- Kenneth Robert Pangborn of KRP Consulting and The A-Team.
forevernitefan
> On Sat, 8 Nov 2008 15:15:04 -0800 (PST), Greegor <Greego...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I've added the Lar$on group since Lar$on used to thrive on the
> whole SRA thing. He even had some books ghost-written about the
> topic. Dead Air is one of them.
>
> [...]
>
>
>
> >> For a research-based rebuttal to Wikipedia’s article, “Satanic Ritual
> >> Abuse,” see The Truth about Satanic Ritual Abuse (http://
> >> ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/the-truth-about-satanic-ritual-
> >> abuse).
>
> >He says the proof is on his website, then when you
> >go to the website it says the proof is on his Youtube Video,
> >but it refers back to the web site for the proof.
>
> >Any information which fails to support his crusade
> >is viewed as a conspiracy by perpetrators
> >of ritual satanic child abuse.
>
> >He described that modus operandi outright.
>
> >Does that mean that the FBI itself is perpetrators?
> >An FBI report from the 1980's refutes the idea of RSCA.
>
> It's not difficult to accept that some people committed acts that
> would be consistent with a claim of SRA. Given human nature, there
> are bound to be people who have done it, are doing it, and will do it.
> However, it's certainly not as wide spread or organized as some,
> like Lar$on and Diana, wanted and want people to believe.
>
>
>
> >He's throwing some sort of seminars about RSCA
> >and Mind Control, but states outright that
> >doubters are not welcome and would be ejected.
>
> Which is really dumb. If one actually believes something is
> happening, wouldn't it stand to reason that he would want to share the
> evidence with those who question? Converting someone who questions
> it is better than solidifying their doubt.
>
>
>
> >Who is this guy pushing this?
> >What is his background, motivation, etc?
>
> >Here he rails against Wikipedia and accuses
> >them of being sympathetic to perpetrators.
>
> >How big is this kooky WITCH HUNT anyway?
It's pretty much over in the USA but in the UK the SRA crap is, from
what I understand, in hysteria levels like we had in the late
eighties and early nineties.
There are a number of books out critical of the SRA myth and have
been out for a number of years.' Satanic Panic" By Jeffrey Victor is
one of them. Another book that deals more with the Christian lies
about Wicca and includes the SRA stories and shows how many of the
accounts are not to be believed is " Witch Hunts" by Kerr Cuhulain.
Cuhulain also has a series of articles (180 plus) on the same topic
area on the Witchvox web site.
There are so many areas about this " satanic ritual abuse" crap that
should rightly be heavily criticized and scrutinized. The core of
this is the fundamentalist and evangelical Christian view of "
spiritual warfare" added to their claims of alleged widespread,
organized underground satanic cults involved in child porn, widespread
human sacrifice and other crap like that. And all this with no bodies,
no remains, no child porn to prove their claims.
The not allowing dissenters or doubters to air their questions is
typical of someone who wants to brainwash his or her audience. It's
also typical of the cult leader mentality. If you are going to sell a
hysteria and profit from the fearmongering, you DON'T want the crowd
to know how flimsy your " evidence" actually is and how the subject
has been found in actual investigation to be smoke and mirrors and no
actual proof.
Yes there is an occasional, so-called " cult crime". But more often
than not it is a small group, not the centuries-old organized satanic
cults claim. And yes child molestation does happen. But guess what?
You don't have to be a " satanist" to be a child molester. In fact the
Catholic Church, among other Christian churches, has a number of
ministers who are pedophiles.
Moe
Eternal FOREVER KNIGHT fan
" A vampire cop? REALLY?"
http://home.earthlink.net/~19ranger57/blies.htm
>
> It's very minor. Most have come to realize that those who were
> abused in a manner consistent with SRA were the victims of individual
> psychos and not a grand conspiracy.
>
> --
> A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting.
> Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)?
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
childadvocate
abuse to find support and heal from these crimes.
Like this list, there are plenty of debate forums on the web.
It is interesting to see the repeated claims of no evidence, when I
have presented the evidence over and over again.
I will present the data again.
Recent worldwide survey of ritual abuse - The Extreme Abuse Survey
final results are online with findings,questionnaires and
presentations for download as pdf-files. More than 750 pages of
documentation http://extreme-abuse-survey.net/
Peer reviewed articles proving ritual abuse exists:
http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/studies/satanic-ritual-abuse-evidence-with-information-on-the-mcmartin-preschool-case/
Lists of legal cases:
Believe the children (1997). “Conviction List: Ritual Child Abuse”.
http://www.ra-info.org/resources/ra_cases.shtml
The Satanism and Ritual Abuse Archive” This archive contains 92 cases
as of February 12, 2008. http://www.endritualabuse.org/ritualabusearchive.htm
Web pages proving the existence of ritual abuse:
Noblitt, PhD, J. R. - An Empirical Look at the Ritual Abuse
Controversy (2007)
http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/an-empirical-look-at-the-ritual-abuse-controversy-randy-noblitt-phd/
Ritual Abuse Bibliography http://www.ra-info.org/library/articles/ra_arti1.shtml
Ritual Abuse Statistics & Research http://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/ra-stats.htm
Searchable releases on satanic ritual abuse http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psnews/
Frequently Asked Questions about Ritual Abuse and Mind Control
http://www.survivorship.org/faq.html
Satanic Ritual Abuse: The Evidence Surfaces By Daniel Ryder, CCDC, LSW
http://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/ra-evidence-surfaces.htm
2008 Publications on Ritual Abuse and Mind Control
http://www.endritualabuse.org/citation 2.htm
Lacter, E (2008-02-11). “Brief Synopsis of the Literature on the
Existence of Ritualistic Abuse”. http://endritualabuse.org/BriefSynopsis.htm
Kent Wills
<smar...@aol.com> wrote:
>The conference is not a debate forum. It is for survivors of ritual
>abuse to find support and heal from these crimes.
>
In other words, anyone who doesn't accept the premise that SRA is
a massive conspiracy that's been going on for centuries isn't welcome.
>
>Like this list, there are plenty of debate forums on the web.
>
>It is interesting to see the repeated claims of no evidence, when I
>have presented the evidence over and over again.
>
CREDIBLE evidence.
What you present offers nothing in the way of actual proof that
SRA exists as you present it.
>I will present the data again.
>
It will be every bit as invalid as it was before.
--
Bless me, Father, for I have committed an original sin.
I poked a badger with a spoon.
childadvocate
Satanic Ritual Abuse evidence with information on the McMartin
Preschool Case
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Reed Publishers.
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Archaeological Investigations of the McMartin Preschool Site
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http://web.archive.org/web/20010123212200/members.cruzio.com/~ratf/McMartin.html/
Awareness Center Information on Ritual Abuse http://theawarenesscenter.org/ritualabuse.html
Ball, T.M. (2008). The Use of Prayer for Inner Healing of Memories and
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first Century: Psychological, Forensic, Social and Political
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Bandon, Oregon: Robert D. Reed Publishers.
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e.V.:Sexuelle Gewalt - Aktuelle Beitraege aus Theorie und Praxis.
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field] on cousellors and counselling)
Becker, T., Karriker, W., Overkamp, B. Rutz, C. (2008). The Extreme
Abuse Survey: preliminary findings regarding dissociative identity
disorder. In A. Sachs & G. Galton (Eds.), Forensic Aspects of
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Becker, T. (2008). “Organisierte und rituelle Gewalt” (”Organized and
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Becker, T. (2008). Re-Searching for New Perspectives: Ritual Abuse/
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237-260. Bandon, Oregon: Robert D. Reed Publishers.
Becker T. & Woywodt, U. (2007). Ritueller Mißbrauch: Auswirkungen der
Arbeit auf die Beraterinnen und die Beratung. In: Wildwasser
e.V.:Sexuelle Gewalt - Aktuelle Beitraege aus Theorie und Praxis.
Berlin: Selbstverlag. (Ritual Abuse: Consequences of working [in this
field] on cousellors and counselling)
Becker, Thorsten (2008). Rituelle Gewalt in Deutschland. (Ritual
Violence in Germany). In: Froehling Ulla: Vater unser in der Hoelle.
Bergisch-Gladbach: Lübbe
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surveys: Preliminary findings regarding dissociative identity
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Karnac Books, 32-49. ISBN 1-855-75596-3.
Believe the children (1997). “Conviction List: Ritual Child Abuse”.
http://www.ra-info.org/resources/ra_cases.shtml
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Braun, B. (1986). “Issues in the Psychotherapy of Multiple Personality
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Brown, J.B. (2008). A Therapeutic Relationship: Shifting Boundaries in
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Reed Publishers.
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Reed Publishers.
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training of mental health professionals and the reporting of ritual
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ritual abuse: The current state of knowledge. pp. 233-238.
Bybee, D. & Mowbray, C. (1993). An analysis of allegations of sexual
abuse in a multi-victim day-care center case. Child Abuse and Neglect.
17(6): 767-783.
Calof, D. L. “From the editor’s desk: Regarding the credibility of
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Government - CIA Mind Control Operations in America (1997) Feral House
Pub., ISBN 0-922915-45-8 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psnews/message/222
Constantine, Alex - Ray Buckey’s Press Corps and the Tunnels of
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psnews/message/226
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psnews/message/227
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psnews/message/228
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Craighead, W. E.; Corsini, R.J.; Nemeroff, C. B. (2002) The Corsini
Encyclopedia of Psychology and Behavioral Science Published by John
Wiley and Sons ISBN 0471270830 - The SRA Controversy (p.1435 - 1438)
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Disorder, pp. 62-78. London: Karnac.
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Extreme Abuse Surveys (2007): 750 pages of data on pdf files:
http://extreme-abuse-survey.net EAS for survivors of extreme abuse, P-
EAS for professionals who work with survivors of extreme abuse, C-EAS
for caregivers who work with children who report extreme/ritual abuse.
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Organized Abuse)
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D. Robert D. Reed Publishers.
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(1993). Children’s patterns of disclosures and recantations of sexual
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IVAT conference in San Diego, California, includes a 4-hour workshop,
Wednesday, September 17, 1:00 to 5:00pm, entitled: Torture-Based mind
Control: Empirical Research, Programmer Methods, Effects & Treatment,
by Wanda Karriker, Ph.D., Randy Noblitt, Ph.D., H. Jane Wakefield, MA
(replacing Eileen Schrader, MSW), and Ellen P. Lacter, Ph.D.
http://www.ivatcenters.org/Conferences/13th-InternationalBooklet.pdf
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Child Abuse Negl. 21(11) 1997 pp. 1109-10
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of three surveys in The Netherlands.” Child Abuse and Neglect 21(6)
1997 pp. 541-56
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results of three surveys in the Netherlands.” Child Abuse & Neglect 21
(6):541-556
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2043971
http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=EJ429991&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ429991
Jonker, Fred. “Safe behind the screen of ‘mass hysteria:’ A closing
rejoinder to Benjamin Rossen.” Special Issue: “Satanic ritual
abuse:The current state of’ knowledge.” Psychology and Theology, 20(3)
1992 pp. 267-70.
Jons, D. P. H. “Ritualism and child sexual abuse,” Child Abuse and
Neglect Vol. 15, 1991
Juhasz, Susan “Coping skills of ritual abuse survivors: An exploratory
study.” Smith College Studies in Social Work 65(3) 1995 pp. 255-267
Kagy, L. “Ritualized abuse of children.” Recap Winter 1986
Kail, T.M. (2008). Magico-Religious Groups and Ritualistic Activities:
A Guide for First Responders. CRC.
Kail, T.M. (2008). Magico-Religious Groups and Ritualistic Activities:
A Guide for First Responders. CRC.
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Today Vol. 32 1988 pp. 52-4
Karriker, Wanda (November, 2007). “Helpful healing methods: As rated
by approximately 900 respondents to the “International Survey for
Adult Survivors of Extreme Abuse (EAS).”
http://www.endritualabuse.org/Karriker%20ISSTD%20Paper%20November%2012,%202007.pdf
Karriker, Wanda (2003). Morning, Come Quickly. Catawba, NC: Sandime,
LTD. ISBN 0-9717171-0-9.
Karriker, W. (2008, September). Torture-based mind control as a global
phenomenon: Preliminary data from the 2007 series of Extreme Abuse
Surveys. In Torture-based mind control: Empirical research, programmer
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forevernitefan
> The conference is not a debate forum. It is for survivors of ritual
> abuse to find support and heal from these crimes.
Where is the proof of these alleged crimes? I know more about this
subject than you think. There are many CLAIMING to be " ritually
abused" and over and over again their stories fail honest scrutiny.
Lauren Stratford claimed she was a breeder and was ritually abused.
She lied.
If the abuse is real there would be proof, not just horror stories.
Tell, me, since " ritual abuse" is a better BS term that " satanic
ritual abuse" which years ago were synonymous, show me " survivors"
who were CHRISTIAN " ritually abused".
An FBI profiler Ken Lanning, did a study of the " Satanic ritual
abuse" claims and found them to be without concrete proof.
Take what you just said and put in " UFO abductees". " Ritual abuse
survivors" are in the same credibility category as UFO abductees. Both
have shared mythologies and shared beliefs and both require " believe
the stories" rather than legal and concrete proof.
>
> Like this list, there are plenty of debate forums on the web.
>
> It is interesting to see the repeated claims of no evidence, when I
> have presented the evidence over and over again.
And I can present books and web sites that are cirtical of " satanic
ritual abuse claims". Were you honest about this you would know about
false memories, about the fiasco the McMartin Preschool case was, how
children are manipulated by " interviewers" to believe they were
abused when in fact they were not and many of those who were the
spokespeople claiming they were ritually abuse turned out to be of
questionable credibility. And had you actually studied this honestly,
you would know that when the SRA hysteria started, certain groups with
their own biased agendas jumped in. And people who were accused of
ritual abuse were convicted without physical evidence. Surely you know
of the case where a retarded, poor couple was accused of being the
center of a child porn ring when they didn't even know how to use a
computer, much less own one.
Or are you looking for anything that confirms your biases, not for
the truth?
>
> I will present the data again.
>
> Recent worldwide survey of ritual abuse - The Extreme Abuse Survey
> final results are online with findings,questionnaires and
> presentations for download as pdf-files. More than 750 pages of
> documentationhttp://extreme-abuse-survey.net/
>
> Peer reviewed articles proving ritual abuse exists:http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/studies/satanic-ritual-abuse-eviden...
>
> Lists of legal cases:
>
> Believe the children (1997). “Conviction List: Ritual Child Abuse”.http://www.ra-info.org/resources/ra_cases.shtml
>
> The Satanism and Ritual Abuse Archive” This archive contains 92 cases
> as of February 12, 2008.http://www.endritualabuse.org/ritualabusearchive.htm
>
> Web pages proving the existence of ritual abuse:
>
> Noblitt, PhD, J. R. - An Empirical Look at the Ritual Abuse
> Controversy (2007)http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/an-empirical-look-at-the-r...
>
> Ritual Abuse Bibliographyhttp://www.ra-info.org/library/articles/ra_arti1.shtml
>
> Ritual Abuse Statistics & Researchhttp://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/ra-stats.htm
>
> Searchable releases on satanic ritual abusehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/psnews/
>
> Frequently Asked Questions about Ritual Abuse and Mind Controlhttp://www.survivorship.org/faq.html
>
> Satanic Ritual Abuse: The Evidence Surfaces By Daniel Ryder, CCDC, LSWhttp://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/ra-evidence-surfaces.htm
>
> 2008 Publications on Ritual Abuse and Mind Controlhttp://www.endritualabuse.org/citation2.htm
>
> Lacter, E (2008-02-11). “Brief Synopsis of the Literature on the
> Existence of Ritualistic Abuse”.http://endritualabuse.org/BriefSynopsis.htm
>
How about what I cited? Care to comment on those sources?
And I have one more question for you. What religion are you? I can
guess, but I want your answer.
forevernitefan
> On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 17:55:25 -0800 (PST), childadvocate
>
> >The conference is not a debate forum. It is for survivors of ritual
> >abuse to find support and heal from these crimes.
>
> In other words, anyone who doesn't accept the premise that SRA is
> a massive conspiracy that's been going on for centuries isn't welcome.
>
>
>
> >Like this list, there are plenty of debate forums on the web.
>
> >It is interesting to see the repeated claims of no evidence, when I
> >have presented the evidence over and over again.
>
> CREDIBLE evidence.
> What you present offers nothing in the way of actual proof that
> SRA exists as you present it.
>
> >I will present the data again.
>
> It will be every bit as invalid as it was before.
>
Exactly my point. There are a lot of CLAIMS and stories but no
credible proof to back up those stories. Kerr Cuhulain in his articles
on the claims and people making the claims shows that credibility is a
big problem with these folks
And bear in mind WHEN the stories if ritual abuse started coming
out. If "childadvocate" was honest he/she would know that this started
with " Miichelle Remembers" and Lauren Stratford. An actual scholarly
analysis of the SRA claims and hysteria includes the fact that " child
welfare advocates" became obsessed with " proof" of sexual abuse such
as a child's anus " winking", and add to them the Christian self-
proclaimed experts on " cult crime" that had seminars misleading
police officers to see " occult crime" everywhere.
I was a Pagan during that era and my concern over the hysteria made
it necessary for me to look at this from various angles.
"Childadvocate" as you know, just because there are web sites on it
does not mean the content of the web sites are on the up and up. I
noticed the sites you mentioned are all of one view, hardly objective.
You didn't mention False Memory Syndrome or other aspects of this
subject that disagree with your claims.
Moe
Eternal FOREVER KNIGHT fan
" A vampire cop? REALLY?"
"http://home.earthlink.net/~19ranger57/blies.htm
> --
>
> Bless me, Father, for I have committed an original sin.
> I poked a badger with a spoon.
>
>
>
> >Recent worldwide survey of ritual abuse - The Extreme Abuse Survey
> >final results are online with findings,questionnaires and
> >presentations for download as pdf-files. More than 750 pages of
> >documentationhttp://extreme-abuse-survey.net/
>
> >Peer reviewed articles proving ritual abuse exists:
> >http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/studies/satanic-ritual-abuse-eviden...
>
> >Lists of legal cases:
>
> >Believe the children (1997). “Conviction List: Ritual Child Abuse”.
> >http://www.ra-info.org/resources/ra_cases.shtml
>
> >The Satanism and Ritual Abuse Archive” This archive contains 92 cases
> >as of February 12, 2008.http://www.endritualabuse.org/ritualabusearchive.htm
>
> >Web pages proving the existence of ritual abuse:
>
> >Noblitt, PhD, J. R. - An Empirical Look at the Ritual Abuse
> >Controversy (2007)
> >http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/an-empirical-look-at-the-r...
>
> >Ritual Abuse Bibliographyhttp://www.ra-info.org/library/articles/ra_arti1.shtml
>
> >Ritual Abuse Statistics & Researchhttp://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/ra-stats.htm
>
> >Searchable releases on satanic ritual abusehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/psnews/
>
> >Frequently Asked Questions about Ritual Abuse and Mind Control
> >http://www.survivorship.org/faq.html
>
> >Satanic Ritual Abuse: The Evidence Surfaces By Daniel Ryder, CCDC, LSW
> >http://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/ra-evidence-surfaces.htm
>
> >2008 Publications on Ritual Abuse and Mind Control
> >http://www.endritualabuse.org/citation2.htm
>
> >Lacter, E (2008-02-11). “Brief Synopsis of the Literature on the
> >Existence of Ritualistic Abuse”.http://endritualabuse.org/BriefSynopsis.htm
forevernitefan
I get it you DON'T know the details about that case. The mother who
first came out claiming her son was sexually abused later died of
cirrosis of the liver. IOW she was an alcoholic.
Lauren Stratford claimed she knew the McMartin Preschool case was
real ritual abuse. She lied. Her real name was Laurel Rose and for
decades she altered her sob story of beingr aped to being a victim of
incest to being ritually abused since she was a child. Her claims in
her book " Satan's Underground" turned out to be lies. Her mother,
which she claimed sold her to satanists and pedophiles, was a devout
Christian and Stratford forgot to mention she had a sister. After the
truth about her came out she went into hiding and reappeared years
later as a claimed " holocaust survivor" when she never was one.
The children claimed there were tunnels under the school. The site
was excavated. No tunnels.
The tapes of the interviews of the children showed suggestion and
manipulation. The interviewers,even with good intentions, were
leading the children to believe event happened when in fact they did
not.
Hysterical parents were adding to the clouding of the facts by
passing among each other stories they in effect pestered their
children to tell.
" Childadvocate", if you were honest in researching this,you know
about false memory syndrorme, about the Erika case, about how some
children who on the stand claimed they were abused later recanted
their abuse and reveqled how they were coerced. You would have added
in your list web sites and sources that are critical of the ritual
abuse claims. And yet I noticed the well-known critical sources are
not on your list.
I did some study over the years on this subject. Part of my study
was based on certain Christians like Bob Larson, so I know their
influence on this subject.
Where are the baby remains? Where are the child porn videos? If they
used knives to draw blood, where are the knives? If there was a
chalice that contained blood, where are these chalices? Do you expect
me to believe these claims when you have no evidence other that
stories?
Your cry is" believe the victims". Even a rape victim has proof of
the assault. And BTW, way back in 1692 Salem " believed the victims"
didn't they, and 19 people were killed for being " witches". And gee
they weren't wrong were they?
Deadrat
dfa66b...@k19g2000yqg.googlegroups.com:
<snip/>
> Your cry is" believe the victims". Even a rape victim has proof of
> the assault. And BTW, way back in 1692 Salem " believed the victims"
> didn't they, and 19 people were killed for being " witches". And gee
> they weren't wrong were they?
They just didn't know about ergot.
<snip/>
Kent Wills
<fvr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Nov 16, 7:55 pm, childadvocate <smartn...@aol.com> wrote:
>> The conference is not a debate forum. It is for survivors of ritual
>> abuse to find support and heal from these crimes.
>
> Where is the proof of these alleged crimes? I know more about this
>subject than you think. There are many CLAIMING to be " ritually
>abused" and over and over again their stories fail honest scrutiny.
>
> Lauren Stratford claimed she was a breeder and was ritually abused.
>She lied.
>
> If the abuse is real there would be proof, not just horror stories.
In the minds of some, like CA, the lack of proof is the proof. In
their minds, the conspiracy is so great that there is no proof, which,
of course, proves all the claims true.
>
> Tell, me, since " ritual abuse" is a better BS term that " satanic
>ritual abuse" which years ago were synonymous, show me " survivors"
>who were CHRISTIAN " ritually abused".
>
> An FBI profiler Ken Lanning, did a study of the " Satanic ritual
>abuse" claims and found them to be without concrete proof.
>
>Take what you just said and put in " UFO abductees". " Ritual abuse
>survivors" are in the same credibility category as UFO abductees. Both
>have shared mythologies and shared beliefs and both require " believe
>the stories" rather than legal and concrete proof.
>
>
>>
>> Like this list, there are plenty of debate forums on the web.
>>
>> It is interesting to see the repeated claims of no evidence, when I
>> have presented the evidence over and over again.
>
> And I can present books and web sites that are cirtical of " satanic
>ritual abuse claims". Were you honest about this you would know about
>false memories, about the fiasco the McMartin Preschool case was,
The tunnel that excavation PROVED wasn't there.
I actually read a site that claimed the lack of a tunnel proved it
had been backfilled.
Again, the lack of proof is the proof.
>how
>children are manipulated by " interviewers" to believe they were
>abused when in fact they were not and many of those who were the
>spokespeople claiming they were ritually abuse turned out to be of
>questionable credibility. And had you actually studied this honestly,
>you would know that when the SRA hysteria started, certain groups with
>their own biased agendas jumped in.
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Bob Lar$on... and a host of
others.
>And people who were accused of
>ritual abuse were convicted without physical evidence. Surely you know
>of the case where a retarded, poor couple was accused of being the
>center of a child porn ring when they didn't even know how to use a
>computer, much less own one.
>
> Or are you looking for anything that confirms your biases, not for
>the truth?
The sad truth is, they'll look for *anything* that might support
the claims. It doesn't matter how far fetched. It doesn't matter
that it's later discredited (the conspiracy made it appear to be
discredited, which, of course, proves it's credibility).
>>
>> I will present the data again.
>>
>> Recent worldwide survey of ritual abuse - The Extreme Abuse Survey
>> final results are online with findings,questionnaires and
>> presentations for download as pdf-files. More than 750 pages of
>> documentationhttp://extreme-abuse-survey.net/
>>
>> Peer reviewed articles proving ritual abuse exists:http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/studies/satanic-ritual-abuse-eviden...
>>
>> Lists of legal cases:
>>
>> Believe the children (1997). “Conviction List: Ritual Child Abuse”.http://www.ra-info.org/resources/ra_cases.shtml
>>
>> The Satanism and Ritual Abuse Archive” This archive contains 92 cases
>> as of February 12, 2008.http://www.endritualabuse.org/ritualabusearchive.htm
>>
>> Web pages proving the existence of ritual abuse:
>>
>> Noblitt, PhD, J. R. - An Empirical Look at the Ritual Abuse
>> Controversy (2007)http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/an-empirical-look-at-the-r...
>>
>> Ritual Abuse Bibliographyhttp://www.ra-info.org/library/articles/ra_arti1.shtml
>>
>> Ritual Abuse Statistics & Researchhttp://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/ra-stats.htm
>>
>> Searchable releases on satanic ritual abusehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/psnews/
>>
>> Frequently Asked Questions about Ritual Abuse and Mind Controlhttp://www.survivorship.org/faq.html
>>
>> Satanic Ritual Abuse: The Evidence Surfaces By Daniel Ryder, CCDC, LSWhttp://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/ra-evidence-surfaces.htm
>>
>> 2008 Publications on Ritual Abuse and Mind Controlhttp://www.endritualabuse.org/citation2.htm
>>
>> Lacter, E (2008-02-11). “Brief Synopsis of the Literature on the
>> Existence of Ritualistic Abuse”.http://endritualabuse.org/BriefSynopsis.htm
>>
>
> How about what I cited? Care to comment on those sources?
You must realize that your cites will, in CA's mind, further
prove that the whole SRA conspiracy must be correct. That you would
dare to offer evidence that counters the claims of SRA will be seen as
proof of the existence of SRA.
>
> And I have one more question for you. What religion are you? I can
>guess, but I want your answer.
>
I think we can all guess :)
--
When cryptography is outlawed,
bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
childadvocate
have done, but for some people, there will never be enough evidence.
To, those that are impartial and can look at both sides of the
research, visit the following sites and see the research below:
http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/
List of Satanic Ritual Abuse references -
http://ritualabusearticles.wordpress.com/category/satanic-ritual-abuse-evidence/
What is Ritual Abuse?
“…is methodical abuse, often using indoctrination, aimed at breaking
the will of another human being. In a 1989 report, the Ritual Abuse
Task Force of the L.A. County Commission for Women defined ritual
abuse as: “Ritual Abuse usually involves repeated abuse over an
extended period of time. The physical abuse is severe, sometimes
including torture and killing. The sexual abuse is usually
painful,humiliating, intended as a means of gaining dominance over the
victim.The psychological abuse is devastating and involves the use of
ritual indoctrination. It includes mind control techniques which
convey to the victim a profound terror of the cult members …most
victims are in a state of terror, mind control and dissociation” (Pg.
35-36) “Safe Passage to Healing”, by Chrystine Oksana, 1994,
HarperCollins, which is an excellent source for survivor and co-
survivors on the topic, though there is a newer edition out by
iuniverse.com (2001)
Lists of legal cases:
Believe the children (1997). “Conviction List: Ritual Child Abuse”.
http://www.ra-info.org/resources/ra_cases.shtml
The Satanism and Ritual Abuse Archive contains 92 cases as of February
12, 2008. http://www.endritualabuse.org/ritualabusearchive.htm
Web pages proving the existence of ritual abuse:
Noblitt, PhD, J. R. - An Empirical Look at the Ritual Abuse
Controversy (2007)
http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/an-empirical-look-at-the-ritual-abuse-controversy-randy-noblitt-phd/
Ritual Abuse Bibliography http://www.ra-info.org/library/articles/ra_arti1.shtml
Ritual Abuse Statistics & Research
http://web.archive.org/web/20071210161357/http://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/ra-stats.htm
Searchable releases on satanic ritual abuse http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psnews/
Frequently Asked Questions about Ritual Abuse and Mind Control
http://www.survivorship.org/faq.html
Satanic Ritual Abuse: The Evidence Surfaces By Daniel Ryder, CCDC, LSW
http://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/ra-evidence-surfaces.htm
2008 Publications on Ritual Abuse and Mind Control
http://www.endritualabuse.org/citation 2.htm
Lacter, E (2008-02-11). “Brief Synopsis of the Literature on
theExistence of Ritualistic Abuse”. http://endritualabuse.org/BriefSynopsis.htm
Bottoms, Shaver and Goodman in their 1993 study to evaluate ritual
abuse claims found that in 2,292 alleged ritual abuse cases, 15% of
the perpetrators in adult cases and 30% of the perpetrators in child
cases confessed to the abuse. Data from Brown, Scheflin and Hammond
(1998).”Memory, Trauma Treatment, And the Law” (W. W. Norton) ISBN
0-393-70254-5 (p.62) Bottoms, B. Shaver, P. & Goodman, G. (1993)
Profile of ritual abuse and religion related abuse allegations in the
United States. Updated findings provided via personal communication
from B. Bottoms. Cited in K.C. Faller (1994), Ritual Abuse; A Review
of the research. The American Professional Society on the Abuse of
Children Advisor , 7, 1, 19-27
On Page 170 (first edition), of Cult and Ritual Abuse - Noblitt and
Perskin(Praeger, 1995) states “One of the best sources of evaluative
research on ritual abuse is the article “Ritual Abuse: A Review of
Research” by Kathleen Coulborn Faller (1994)….in a survey of 2,709
members of the American Psychological Association, it was found that
30 percent of these professionals had seen cases of ritual or religion-
related abuse (Bottoms, Shaver & Goodman, 1991). Of those
psychologists who have seen cases of ritual abuse, 93 percent believed
that the reported harm took place and 93 percent believed that the
alleged ritualism occurred. This is a remarkable finding. Mental
health professionals are known to be divergent in their thinking and
frequently do not agree with one another regarding questions of the
diagnosis and etiology of psychiatric problems…this level of
concurrence in a large national sample of psychologists…would be
impressive….the similar research of Nancy Perry (1992) which further
supports (the previous findings)…Perry also conducted a national
survey of therapists who work with clients with dissociative disorders
and she found that 88 percent of the 1,185 respondents
indicated”belief in ritual abuse, involving mind control and
programming” (p.3).”
Recent worldwide survey of ritual abuse
The Extreme Abuse Survey final results are online with
childadvocate
http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/studies/ritual-abuse-diagnosis-research-2/
The following is an excerpt from a chapter in: Lacter, E. & Lehman, K.
(2008). Guidelines to Differential Diagnosis between Schizophrenia and
Ritual Abuse/Mind Control Traumatic Stress. In J.R. Noblitt & P.
Perskin (Eds.), Ritual Abuse in the Twenty-first Century:
Psychological, Forensic, Social and Political Considerations, pp.
85-154. Bandon, Oregon: Robert D. Reed Publishers.
this page describes ritual abuse crimes
01. Leavitt and Labott (2000) compared Rorschach results of three
groups of patients; 1) patients reporting child sexual abuse within
Satanic cults; 2) patients reporting child sexual abuse without ritual
abuse; and 3) non-abused patients. The first two groups had histories
of amnesia for their sexual trauma, memory recovery after the age of
18 years, and an absence of psychotic or neurologic symptoms. Groups
were compared for frequency of 41 Rorschach content responses related
to Satanic ritual abuse, selected by four experts in ritual trauma.
The group of patients reporting abuse within Satanic cults gave
significantly more Rorschach responses with Satanic content. The
following specific percepts significantly differentiated the groups:
robe, mask, body mutilated, babies damaged, ritual ceremony,
threatening eyes, blood everywhere, special knife, goat reference,
bondage, torture, sacrifice, hooded figure, altar, blood rituals, and
circle. A second study revealed that these results were unrelated to
patients’ degree of media and hospital milieu exposure to the subject
of Satanic ritual abuse. In fact, less media exposure was associated
with production of more Satanic content in patients reporting ritual
abuse, evidence that reports of ritual abuse are not primarily the
product of exposure contagion.
In an earlier study, Leavitt and Labott (1998a) found that patients
reporting Satanic ritual abuse provided more Satanic-content responses
in a word association test than patients reporting non-ritual sexual
abuse. They also provided fewer normative responses, understandable
given the pervasive nature of ritual trauma and the paucity of normal
childhood experience for so many of these victims.
Mangen (1992) performed approximately 25 psychological evaluations
with patients already identified as having been victimized within
Satanic cults, including the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale-Revised
(WAIS-R), Rorschach, Thematic Apperception Test (TAT) or other story-
telling test, a human figure drawings, and more.
Mangen found that the “testing” situation itself often induced great
fear in these patients, related to the frequent “tests” of abilities
within ritual abuse. Test stimuli, even benign or familiar stimuli,
often acted as trauma reminders and precipitated trauma reactions and
dissociative “switching” of personalities. He observed that “many
responses given by these patients sound blatantly psychotic” (p. 154),
but closer scrutiny revealed that these were derived from the ritual
abuse and the traumatized level of functioning. He explains the
importance of understanding ritual abuse practices, symbols, holidays,
etc., as emphasized above.
Mangen found these individuals were of at least average intelligence.
However, signs of cognitive slippage and inefficiency occurred as
trauma impinged on thought processes. Idiosyncratic, personalized, and
even bizarre responses to test stimuli were common. E.g., intelligence
tests involving numbers, and in particular, having to repeat series of
numbers backwards, often disorganized patients’ responses, since
numbers and reversal of numbers and letters are common in ritual
practices and programming. Mangen noted that words often lost their
meaning as symbols, and were perceived as dangerous in themselves,
related to abusers communicating deadly messages with words, and
punishment by abusers for incorrect verbal responses. Visual images
also disorganized thought processes. E.g., one woman froze when given
puzzle pieces of a human figure to assemble. When asked what had
happened, she “switched” into a young personality who explained that
she had participated in rituals involving people being cut into
pieces, but had never been told to try to put the people back
together.
Mangen emphasized that such disorganized episodes are frequent, but
exist side-by-side with trauma-free spheres of cognitive functioning.
He suggests that the traumatized thought processes are state-
dependent, and that these patients readily enter states of traumatized
functioning.
Mangen’s Rorschach observations are especially revealing. Patients
tended to provide images that were perceptually accurate (good form);
i.e., they were largely consistent with shapes in the inkblot. In
contrast, patients with Schizophrenia often have poor perceptual
accuracy (poor form) on the Rorschach, a sign of more impaired
perceptual and thought processes.
Though form was generally adequate, associations to the blots were
replete with traumatic imagery. E.g., a perception of a person might
fit the blot, but the associations might include themes of cutting and
murdering babies, eating flesh, evil, etc., additions that would
appear bizarre if not for the ritual trauma. Such trauma-driven
associations might be made with flat affect or flooded affect. In some
cases, perceptual distortions (poor form) were more central, but even
these were often resolved in light of the abuse. For example, one
patient perceived a person with women’s breasts and a penis, an
incongruous combination (INCOM) that might indicate psychosis, if not
for the fact that some sexual rituals involve people costumed to
appear bi-gender. Yellow was perceived by an other patient as angry
and as urine “poured all over me”. This response becomes
understandable if the clinician knows that abusers often urinate on
the victim, in some cases with the intent to dominate the spirit of
the victim with their own spirits.
Mangen explains that drawings also contain elements that would appear
bizarre without an understanding of the underlying trauma. For
example, trees may contain eyes, hidden people, and blood dripping
from severed limbs. Moore (1994) notes that in human figure drawings
of ritual abuse victims, arms often abruptly end, appear torn off or
jagged, or have unusual endings unlike hands. Ritual acts, symbols,
candles, pentagrams, inverted crosses, robes, dripping blood, etc.,
may be graphically represented, particularly if the abuse is
conscious. Cohen and Cox (1995) include a series of drawings depicting
the unfolding of memories of an adult woman ritually abused as a
child, replete with graphic memories of abusive rituals, ritual
artifacts, her terror, phallic symbols of sexual abuse, and
dissociative responses, such as multiple self-representations in one
drawing, and changes in developmental level across drawings in
relation to the age of the personality making the picture.
Mangen reports that ritual abuse victims demonstrate a damaged
experience of self on projective tests, such as the Rorschach and TAT.
Responses demonstrate a lack of self-agency, that is, a sense of lack
of control over one’s life and actions. Figures are often perceived as
helpless or passive. Body integrity is often impaired; figures are
seen as broken, devoured, harmed, etc. Self affect is inconsistent and
incongruent. For example, a figure may be described as frightened and
laughing, evil and good, etc. Dissociative processes are evident in
illogical shifts and transpositions. TAT stories include confusion in
regard to time, states of waking and sleeping, life and death, here
and not here, and sudden changes in what characters know, think, and
want.
TAT stories reflect interpersonal estrangement and malevolence. Themes
of caring and kindness tend to be fleeting. Themes of deception and
betrayal are common; “things are not what they seem”. Kind adults turn
threatening. Child figures may feign compliance, but are described as
actually pretending or escaping in their minds (dissociating).
Responses are consistent with the devastating and pervasive abuse
these victims have experienced, so often including immediate family
members.
Affect dysregulation and emotional intensity pervade test responses.
Primitive violent imagery related to ritual trauma is common in
Rorschach responses and TAT stories. There is a paucity of positively
tinged affective experiences, such as love and hope. Terror and
despair dominate. Fear of annihilation and abandonment are more common
than fear of loss of love. Some responses may reflect identification
with aggressors.
Dissociative responses are observed throughout the evaluation process.
Blocking of affect may occur as trauma is described. Overwhelming
stimuli can precipitate switching of personalities. There may be
obvious changes in vocal presentation and general demeanor.
Personalities may identify themselves by name. They may relay accounts
of horrible abuse unknown to the host and the host may return with
complete amnesia for the event. Or dissociative episodes may be more
subtle, and not distinguished unless the evaluator looks for amnestic
gaps, such as the repetition of test questions later in the evaluation
process to determine if prior responses are recalled.
Mangen explains that the patient may not be able to reveal the
“secret” of the abuse and that personalities who identify with the
cult experience tend not to present themselves. Thus the clinician
must work with the patient to “help make the invisible visible” (p.
155). However, he states that much more research is needed on the use
of psychological testing in identifying severe trauma, dissociation,
and in particular ritual trauma, to help clinicians to recognize
patients who are still preserving the “secret” and not yet revealing
their ritual abuse.
References
Cohen, B.M., & Cox, C.T. (1995). Telling without talking: Art as a
window into the world of multiple personality. New York: Norton.
Leavitt F., & Labott, S. M.(1998a). Revision of the Word Association
Test for assessing associations of patients reporting Satanic ritual
abuse in childhood. Journal of Clinical Psychology, 54(7), 933-943.
Leavitt, F., & Labott, S.M. (2000). The role of media and hospital
exposure on Rorschach response patterns by patients reporting satanic
ritual abuse. American Journal of Forensic Psychology, 18(2), 35-55.
Mangen, R. (1992). Psychological testing and ritual abuse. In D.K.
Sakheim & S.E. Devine (Eds.), Out of darkness: Exploring Satanism and
ritual abuse (pp. 147-173). New York: Lexington.
Moore, M.S. (1994). Common characteristics in the drawings of ritually
abused children and adults. In V. Sinason (Ed.), Treating survivors of
satanic abuse (pp. 221-241). London, and NY, NY: Routledge.
Kent Wills
<smar...@aol.com> wrote:
>I could present numerous peer reviewed studies and legal cases, like I
>have done, but for some people, there will never be enough evidence.
I'd be happy with any credible evidence.
All available credible evidence shows that there was and is no
massive conspiracy in regards to SRA.
That you had to cite McMartin Pre-School, in which the accusations
were PROVED false, shows how you have nothing.
--
Bless me, Father, for I have committed an original sin.
I poked a badger with a spoon.
>
forevernitefan
> I could present numerous peer reviewed studies and legal cases, like I
> have done, but for some people, there will never be enough evidence.
>
> To, those that are impartial and can look at both sides of the
> research, visit the following sites and see the research below:
(( crap snipped for brevity))
How about answering MY questions? I mentioned the disaster of the
McMartin Preschool case, the critical books like Jeffrey Victor's "
Satanic Panic" AND I mentioned FBI profiler Ken Lanning's report on
the SRA claims. I can name a number of other sources that are
skeptical of this " ritual abuse" organized cult crime" claim, but
its obvious now you have no intention of acknowledging the errors in
your claims.
And I honestly DOUBT you read EVERY ONE of the reports, ad nauseum,
you cut and pasted.
I only just came across your posts and I can see you are a " true
believer" who can't stand to critically analize what you have
swallowed as fact.
If you actually believe this is a widespread phenomenon and that with
no physical evidence whatsoever " proves" this is a conspiracy of
sneaky and devious abusers, I'll come out and say this. You're
frigging stupid.
One of my many interests is true crime. IF this was as widespread as
you CLAIM, the alleged perpetrators could not eliminate ALL of the
evidence EVERY time.. Like Is ad, you might as well believe the UFO
abductees stories. They all have similar lack of evidence and secret
coverups.
And hell, why not go one step further? Why not believe anti-semetic
people who claim Jews abduct Gentile babies and eat them? Oh, did you
manage to NOT see that little hysteria tidbit in your " research" on "
ritual abuse"?
And how about the ZOG crap ( " zionist" controlled government)?
" Childadvocate", my point is simple. There are a number of groups who
are obsessed with conspiracies, and if you bothered to actually DO
some scholarly study, you would see how the "SRA" " ritual abuse" "
underground conspiracy" stuff has a lot in common with the conspiracy
theories you may not believe.
As I said before, I know aspects about this subject you may not have
been exposed to. Instead of me doing the cut and paste spam like you
did and wasting badwidth, I reccomend a few books and one series on a
web site. Victor's book, OC, and then there is " Satan's Silence".
Online go to witchvox and look up articles by Kerr Cuhulain. He
examines some of the SRA and " ritual abuse survivors" claims and as a
police officer he makes some very good points about your " no
evidence" as proof of a conspiracy clams.
But I'll bet you'll never even bother to read his articles online.
You might as well advocate the hollow earth claims, or Atlantis, or
whatever.
forevernitefan
> On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:54:19 -0800 (PST), childadvocate
>
> >I could present numerous peer reviewed studies and legal cases, like I
> >have done, but for some people, there will never be enough evidence.
>
> I'd be happy with any credible evidence.
> All available credible evidence shows that there was and is no
> massive conspiracy in regards to SRA.
> That you had to cite McMartin Pre-School, in which the accusations
> were PROVED false, shows how you have nothing.
>
the accusations ( typical of SRA claims) to be false and without
proof.
Kindly note that I mentioned a FEW of the problems with that case,
including the childrens' story of underground tunnels. I can name a
number of other cases where overzealous law enforcement and panic
stricken parents have claimed SRA or ritual abuse and the FACTS prove
none existed. Lauren Stratford aka Laurel Rose Wilson is a NOTORIOUS
case of a so-called ritual abuse survivor who LIED.
" Childadvocate" is trying to toss in so many references in order to
make it APPEAR there is proof this exists as she/he claims. IOW there
are so many horse apples there MUST be a pony hidden in the pile.
Anyone can pile on alleged catalogs of references to " prove" their
claims but not prove in DETAIL anything specific.
I made specific references, " childadvocate". You can view the
Lanning report online. You can visit the False Memory web sites.
Google " Kerr Cuhulain" and you will see his articles on claims or SRA
and supposed ritual abuse survivors.
But I'm betting you are way too fanatical to risk doing that.
Any damn fool can cut and paste. Reality check / Aka Prof. Jonez does
that crap all the time. I want to see specific cases where actual
concrete EVIDENCE shows SRA or ritual abuse took place.
And BTW if this is a wide underground conspiracy, are you aware of
human nature where the more people are in something, the MORE LIKELY
the alleged " hidden" plans will be exposed? And human nature being
what it is, not EVERYONE who disposes of the " evidence" does a
COMPLETE job of it. And yet to expect people to believe these alleged
abusers EVERY TIME cover their tracks and leave no evidence.
You know what I say to that? Bullshit.
BTW keep avoiding my points. Your fanaticism reeks through.
Also I see you use AOL. Did you ever manage at night to look through
some of the " private" chat rooms on AOL? You want find some child
predators, take a REAL GOOD look at the titles of some of those
private chat rooms at night. Instead of immersing yourself in the
hysteria of " ritual abuse" , MAYBE if you are so damned concerned for
the children you'll get off your butt and CATCH THOSE molesters who
use AOL.
Oops no " conspiracy" there. Just sicko predators.
And since THOSE kids are not being lured by SRA or ritual abuse, gee
they don't count, RIGHT?
Fanatics like you piss me off. You pose yourself as caring foildren
but you get obsessed on something like SRA and instead of dealing with
" mundane" child abuse and incest and pedophilia, you focus on your
damn boogeymen of ritual abusers.
I know your type. You are blind to the actual need while you feed
your imaginations and fears with things you have no concrete proof of
and waste energy on wild goose chases while the children you pretend
to care about suffer.
Greegor
What is your underlying motivation?
Do YOU claim to be a survivor of Ritual Satanic Child Abuse?
Did this spring out of your religious beliefs?
What got you started in this?
richard
<fvr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Nov 21, 3:52 pm, Kent Wills <compu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:54:19 -0800 (PST), childadvocate
>>
>> <smartn...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >I could present numerous peer reviewed studies and legal cases, like I
>> >have done, but for some people, there will never be enough evidence.
>>
>> I'd be happy with any credible evidence.
>> All available credible evidence shows that there was and is no
>> massive conspiracy in regards to SRA.
>> That you had to cite McMartin Pre-School, in which the accusations
>> were PROVED false, shows how you have nothing.
>>
> EXACTLY!! Any HONEST study of the McMartin Preschool case would show
>the accusations ( typical of SRA claims) to be false and without
>proof.
>
> Kindly note that I mentioned a FEW of the problems with that case,
>including the childrens' story of underground tunnels. I can name a
>number of other cases where overzealous law enforcement and panic
>stricken parents have claimed SRA or ritual abuse and the FACTS prove
>none existed. Lauren Stratford aka Laurel Rose Wilson is a NOTORIOUS
>case of a so-called ritual abuse survivor who LIED.
>
And the person who should have been investigated and prosecuted never
was.
Geraldo Rivera simply used the situation to make a name for himself
even though he had no tangible proof.
The kids in the case got sick and tired of the questions, most of them
just gave the investigators a bunch of shit just to make them stop the
questioning. One girl who was shown being questioned, finally told her
caseworked that she had been penetrated front and rear. Years lalter
the girl said no she was not. That was to please the investigators and
give them what they wanted to hear.
While sadistic ritual abuse may exist, it is by no means an epidemic
thing. You might have 1 case in 1,000,000 that is true.
Kent Wills
wrote:
>On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 07:21:38 -0800 (PST), forevernitefan
><fvr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Nov 21, 3:52 pm, Kent Wills <compu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:54:19 -0800 (PST), childadvocate
>>>
>>> <smartn...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> >I could present numerous peer reviewed studies and legal cases, like I
>>> >have done, but for some people, there will never be enough evidence.
>>>
>>> I'd be happy with any credible evidence.
>>> All available credible evidence shows that there was and is no
>>> massive conspiracy in regards to SRA.
>>> That you had to cite McMartin Pre-School, in which the accusations
>>> were PROVED false, shows how you have nothing.
>>>
>> EXACTLY!! Any HONEST study of the McMartin Preschool case would show
>>the accusations ( typical of SRA claims) to be false and without
>>proof.
>>
>> Kindly note that I mentioned a FEW of the problems with that case,
>>including the childrens' story of underground tunnels. I can name a
>>number of other cases where overzealous law enforcement and panic
>>stricken parents have claimed SRA or ritual abuse and the FACTS prove
>>none existed. Lauren Stratford aka Laurel Rose Wilson is a NOTORIOUS
>>case of a so-called ritual abuse survivor who LIED.
>>
>
>
>And the person who should have been investigated and prosecuted never
>was.
When all of the evidence showed everything law enforcement was
being told was bogus, there is no point in prosecuting.
Unless you mean Lauren. IMO, she should have been charged with,
at least, filing a false police report.
>
>Geraldo Rivera simply used the situation to make a name for himself
>even though he had no tangible proof.
Geraldo was already quite famous due to his segments on 20/20.
>
>The kids in the case got sick and tired of the questions, most of them
>just gave the investigators a bunch of shit just to make them stop the
>questioning. One girl who was shown being questioned, finally told her
>caseworked that she had been penetrated front and rear. Years lalter
>the girl said no she was not. That was to please the investigators and
>give them what they wanted to hear.
>
>While sadistic ritual abuse may exist, it is by no means an epidemic
>thing. You might have 1 case in 1,000,000 that is true.
It may not be as common as that. Though your numbers are far
more realistic than CA's.
--
-... .- -.. .-- --- .-.. ..-
Greegor
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 07:21:38 -0800 (PST), forevernitefan
>
>
>
>
>
> <fvrn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Nov 21, 3:52 pm, Kent Wills <compu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:54:19 -0800 (PST), childadvocate
>
> >> <smartn...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >I could present numerous peer reviewed studies and legal cases, like I
> >> >have done, but for some people, there will never be enough evidence.
>
> >> I'd be happy with any credible evidence.
> >> All available credible evidence shows that there was and is no
> >> massive conspiracy in regards to SRA.
> >> That you had to cite McMartin Pre-School, in which the accusations
> >> were PROVED false, shows how you have nothing.
>
> > EXACTLY!! Any HONEST study of the McMartin Preschool case would show
> >the accusations ( typical of SRA claims) to be false and without
> >proof.
>
> > Kindly note that I mentioned a FEW of the problems with that case,
> >including the childrens' story of underground tunnels. I can name a
> >number of other cases where overzealous law enforcement and panic
> >stricken parents have claimed SRA or ritual abuse and the FACTS prove
> >none existed. Lauren Stratford aka Laurel Rose Wilson is a NOTORIOUS
> >case of a so-called ritual abuse survivor who LIED.
richard wrote
> And the person who should have been investigated and prosecuted never
> was.
>
> Geraldo Rivera simply used the situation to make a name for himself
> even though he had no tangible proof.
>
> The kids in the case got sick and tired of the questions, most of them
> just gave the investigators a bunch of shit just to make them stop the
> questioning. One girl who was shown being questioned, finally told her
> caseworked that she had been penetrated front and rear. Years lalter
> the girl said no she was not. That was to please the investigators and
> give them what they wanted to hear.
>
> While sadistic ritual abuse may exist, it is by no means an epidemic
> thing. You might have 1 case in 1,000,000 that is true.
Stats from the FBI and others would make it even more
obscure than that. People asserting RSCA used to
point to Charles Manson but even the FBI wrote off
most such cases as more about mental illness, drugs,
manipulation and criminal enterprise.
One problem is that there are always vested interests
who want to take a one in a million thing and pretend
that it's hiding behind every other door.
After all, the population of the US alone is over
300 Million, so one in a million would make for 300 cases!
Consider that with a population that size, damn
near every stupid thing imagineable will happen
from time to time.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/us.html
[ US ] Population: 303,824,640 (July 2008 est.)
If you use those obscure things as a
basis to direct public policy, it leads
to massive waste and assenine overbearing
government intrusions.
Munchausens By Proxy is a very similar
problem in that it's actually extremely rare
and it got so caseworkers (NOT qualified!)
were accusing people of it left and right.
It got so that 99% of the accusations were BS.
The Brit doctor who created the diagnosis
was caught telling lies ABOUT STATISTICS
in court to vilify innocent parents.
When they went to look up his groundbreaking
research that lead to the MBP diagnosis,
it was discovered that he had SHREDDED
the research. This is HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS
because usually such stuff ends up in
a university archive. I think part of the ZEAL
for diagnosing this illness is similar to the
ZEAL some people have about RCSA.
It's psychologically "catchy" for amateurs
and college students to learn about!
Hell, both of these have been the basis of
motion picture dramatizations.
Even funnier is that these dramatizations
are commonly used as part of so-called
""professional training"".
Michael Dobony
This does not explain the many independent reports that share many common
features. For the most part therapists are being careful to not lead or
create memories, but the reports continue to come in. You are correct, it
is not an epidemic, but it is definitely more than 1 case in 1,000,000.
These victims have elevated symptoms of PTSD, much like soldiers in fierce
combat, seeing partners die in extreme ways. SOMETHING caused this. SRA
would reasonably explain it. The problem is there is rarely any physical
proof.
Mike D.
jacq...@aol.com
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 07:21:38 -0800 (PST), forevernitefan
>
>
>
> <fvrn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Nov 21, 3:52 pm, Kent Wills <compu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:54:19 -0800 (PST), childadvocate
>
> >> <smartn...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >I could present numerous peer reviewed studies and legal cases, like I
> >> >have done, but for some people, there will never be enough evidence.
>
> >> I'd be happy with any credible evidence.
> >> All available credible evidence shows that there was and is no
> >> massive conspiracy in regards to SRA.
> >> That you had to cite McMartin Pre-School, in which the accusations
> >> were PROVED false, shows how you have nothing.
>
> > EXACTLY!! Any HONEST study of the McMartin Preschool case would show
> >the accusations ( typical of SRA claims) to be false and without
> >proof.
>
> > Kindly note that I mentioned a FEW of the problems with that case,
> >including the childrens' story of underground tunnels. I can name a
> >number of other cases where overzealous law enforcement and panic
> >stricken parents have claimed SRA or ritual abuse and the FACTS prove
> >case of a so-called ritual abuse survivor who LIED.
>
> And the person who should have been investigated and prosecuted never
> was.
>
> Geraldo Rivera simply used the situation to make a name for himself
> even though he had no tangible proof.
>
> The kids in the case got sick and tired of the questions, most of them
> just gave the investigators a bunch of shit just to make them stop the
> questioning. One girl who was shown being questioned, finally told her
> caseworked that she had been penetrated front and rear. Years lalter
> the girl said no she was not. That was to please the investigators and
> give them what they wanted to hear.
>
> While sadistic ritual abuse may exist, it is by no means an epidemic
> thing. You might have 1 case in 1,000,000 that is true.
We asked Geraldo why he was interested in this topic and he told us
he had a personal experience with it. Knowing Geraldo, though that was
probably a lie to get us to cooperate with us. He can be very
persuasive.
Copernicus was jailed for his theory that the sun revolved around the
earth rather than the other way. People at that time did not want to
believe that the sun was more important than earth.
Until about 10 years ago there was an active group called "The Flat
Earth Society" who believed the earth is flat. There are still some
people who want to convince us that the Holocaust didn't happen, that
we didn't really land on the moon. They are the Kooks!
Nay sayers of the prevalence child abuse, who site pseudo experts
like: the False Memory Syndrome Foundation, which used to be called
"VICTIMS of Child Abuse Legislation"-literally -in case it isn't
obvious that means people who are accused of child abuse-the original
founders, Holida Wakefield and Dr Underwager both admitted to being
pedophiles, Debbie Nathan-ZERO credentials, Dorothy Rabinowitz-also
Zero credentials other that a freelance entertainment reviewer, Paul
and Shirley Eberle, editors of FINGER-a kiddie porn newspaper.....to
name a few....
I agree there is some what you call "hysteria." How could there not
be with a topic as volitle as this . One guy said it aptly. It
involves three elements that trigger strong emotion, Children, sex and
satanism.
My quandry is WHY do a few "VOCAL" (pun intended) people INIST on
trying to convince everyone that this doesn't exist? It does. A huge
world conspiracy? I don't know about that...but it DOES exist.
Someone who has done the compilation of all of the papers and articles
that Childadvocate quotes has done a tremendous job. I have met any of
those experts and I know first hand that they DO have valid
credentials.
What is your reason for knocking yourself out trying to disprove
something that is obviously real?
JM (a mom and child advocate)
childadvocate
that there was evidence of child abuse at McMartin, only that the
prosecution didn't adequately prove their case.
See http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/mcmartin-preschool-case-what-really-happened-and-the-coverup/
for more info. There were many hung juries and split decisions.
Behind the Playground Walls - Sexual Abuse in Preschools by Jill
Waterman, Robert J. Kelly, Mary Kay Oliveri and Jane McCord - The
Guilford Press - New York, London 1993 “In the most well-known case,
involving the McMartin Preschool in Manhattan Beach, California, two
juries from successive trials became hopelessly deadlocked and failed
to agree on a verdict after 7 years of investigation and trial. At the
press conference following the trial, 9 of the 11 jurors who agreed to
be interviewed indicated that they believed the children had been
molested, but they felt that the evidence presented did not enable
them to state beyond a reasonable doubt who had perpetrated the
abuse.” (p. vii) (Source: Los Angeles Times, January 19, 1990, pp. A1
and A22) “Tapes of Children Decided the Case for Most Jurors” Tracy
Wilkinson and James Rainey - Los Angeles Times p.A1 and A2 - 1/19/1990
And I will present even more evidence that ritual abuse exists in
significant numbers below.
I hope that those neutral to the topic will fully read both sides of
the argument and make their own decisions about this.
Understanding ritual trauma: A comparison of findings from three
online surveys - Handout for Karriker, Wanda. (2008, November).Paper
presented at the meeting of the International Society for the Study of
Trauma and Dissociation, Chicago, IL.
10 Extreme Abuse Survey Findings Helpful to Understanding Ritual
Trauma
1. Ritual abuse/mind control (RA/MC) is a global phenomenon.
2. A diagnosis of Dissociative Identity Disorder is common for persons
who report histories of RA/MC. (84% of EAS respondents who answered
that they have been diagnosed with DID [N=655] reported that they are
survivors of RA/MC).
3. Ritual abuse (RA) is not limited to SRA, i.e., satanic ritual
abuse, sadistic abuse, satanist abuse.
4. RA is reported to involve mind control techniques.
5. Some extreme abuse survivors report that they were used in
government-sponsored mind control experimentation (GMC).
6. RA/MC is reported to be involved in organized "known" crime.
7. RA/MC is reported to be involved in clergy abuse.
8. Most often reported memories of extreme abuse are similar across
all surveys.
9. Most often reported possible aftereffects of extreme abuse are
similar across all surveys.
10. In rating the effectiveness of healing methods, therapists tend to
favor stabilization techniques; survivors are more open to alternative
ways to cope with indoctrinated belief systems.
childadvocate
"Someone who has done the compilation of all of the papers and
articles that Childadvocate quotes has done a tremendous job."
see http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/mcmartin-preschool-case-what-really-happened-and-the-coverup/
for a good collection of articles on McMartin
Dan Sullivan
> Don't have time to answer all of the questions above. But I will say
> that there was evidence of child abuse at McMartin, only that the
> prosecution didn't adequately prove their case.
What credible evidence are you referring to?
Kent Wills
<smar...@aol.com> wrote:
>Don't have time to answer all of the questions above.
What questions above? You didn't quote anything in your reply.
>But I will say
>that there was evidence of child abuse at McMartin,
There may have been abuse. However, the initial claim was Satanic
Ritual Abuse. There was and is no evidence to support such an
accusation.
>only that the
>prosecution didn't adequately prove their case.
When there is zero credible evidence of a crime having been
committed, this is the expected outcome.
I'm surprised the cases were ever taken to trail.
>
>See http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/mcmartin-preschool-case-what-really-happened-and-the-coverup/
>for more info. There were many hung juries and split decisions.
There is no credible evidence of any SRA occurring at the school.
There's a lot of misdirection and carefully worded distractions.
By way of example, here is a C&P of part of the page:
The parents wondered, like everyone else, at the incredibility of the
charges - some said the children were lying - yet they had to question
Peggy McMartin’s testimony that she only worked at the school for a
short time, when payroll records showed that she had been employed
there for years.
Whether Peggy worked for the school for years or not has NO
bearing on the truth that there was and is ZERO credible evidence of
SRA.
Also, there is nothing to support the claim that she ever worked
for the school at all. The page is short on citations.
The page is full of this type of distraction. They are included
to confuse the reader.
>
>Behind the Playground Walls - Sexual Abuse in Preschools by Jill
>Waterman, Robert J. Kelly, Mary Kay Oliveri and Jane McCord - The
>Guilford Press - New York, London 1993 “In the most well-known case,
>involving the McMartin Preschool in Manhattan Beach, California, two
>juries from successive trials became hopelessly deadlocked and failed
>to agree on a verdict after 7 years of investigation and trial. At the
>press conference following the trial, 9 of the 11 jurors who agreed to
>be interviewed indicated that they believed the children had been
>molested, but they felt that the evidence presented did not enable
>them to state beyond a reasonable doubt who had perpetrated the
>abuse.” (p. vii) (Source: Los Angeles Times, January 19, 1990, pp. A1
>and A22) “Tapes of Children Decided the Case for Most Jurors” Tracy
>Wilkinson and James Rainey - Los Angeles Times p.A1 and A2 - 1/19/1990
>
>And I will present even more evidence that ritual abuse exists in
>significant numbers below.
>
>I hope that those neutral to the topic will fully read both sides of
>the argument and make their own decisions about this.
Back in 1993, I bought the SRA con hook, line and sinker.
Upon checking the facts, I found that the accusations were false.
There was never an organized conspiracy of Satanists abusing children.
It's amazing how quickly people come to realize SRA was and is
bunk once they actually examine all available evidence.
>
>
>Understanding ritual trauma: A comparison of findings from three
>online surveys - Handout for Karriker, Wanda. (2008, November).Paper
>presented at the meeting of the International Society for the Study of
>Trauma and Dissociation, Chicago, IL.
>
>http://ritualabuse.us/mindcontrol/eas-studies/understanding-ritual-trauma-a-comparison-of-findings-from-three-online-surveys
>
>10 Extreme Abuse Survey Findings Helpful to Understanding Ritual
>Trauma
>
>1. Ritual abuse/mind control (RA/MC) is a global phenomenon.
Abuse does occurred in every culture. Some of it may be seen as
ritualistic. As such, I'll give you this one, though you don't
actually offer any proof.
>
>2. A diagnosis of Dissociative Identity Disorder is common for persons
>who report histories of RA/MC. (84% of EAS respondents who answered
>that they have been diagnosed with DID [N=655] reported that they are
>survivors of RA/MC).
>
Many in the world of psychiatry question if DID even exists.
That aside, point number two fails as evidence. One can have DID
without having been a victim of SRA.
More often than not, they will be a victim of abuse, but said
abuse doesn't need to be ritualistic in nature.
>3. Ritual abuse (RA) is not limited to SRA, i.e., satanic ritual
>abuse, sadistic abuse, satanist abuse.
All evidence shows that it's not.
The cases of real abuse where the abuse could be called
ritualistic have no religious overtures included.
>
>4. RA is reported to involve mind control techniques.
>
Now we're getting into the Lar$on area.
I wish I still had my copies of Dead Air and Abadon. I could
then quote some of the tripe he presented as being reality.
>5. Some extreme abuse survivors report that they were used in
>government-sponsored mind control experimentation (GMC).
Um... alt.conspiracy is over there ----------->
>
>6. RA/MC is reported to be involved in organized "known" crime.
It may be so reported. Even if it is, this isn't evidence that
SRA (I note you've dropped the Satanic angle) actually exists.
An accusation is not evidence. It's simply an accusation.
By way of example:
I could claim the every morning at 7:35 you run into your
neighbor's home and flatulate in the kitchen. You then run home and
giggle about it.
Is this evidence? No. If not for it's being a hypothetical, it
would be nothing more than an accusation.
>
>7. RA/MC is reported to be involved in clergy abuse.
It's been proved some Roman Catholic Priests sexually abused
children. I've not heard of any other denominations or faiths having
done so, but probability states that this is not exclusive to RC.
There's nothing to indicate the abuse was or is ritualistic.
>
>8. Most often reported memories of extreme abuse are similar across
>all surveys.
Gee, they hear several people tell the same story and repeat it.
I can repeat the story of Hansel and Grettle. It will be very
similar to another's telling.
Does this mean there's an evil witch living in a ginger bread
house deep in the woods?
>
>9. Most often reported possible aftereffects of extreme abuse are
>similar across all surveys.
They have to live with some hypnotherapist having messed with
their minds in his/her attempt to convince them abuse that never
occurred did occur.
Denying one was/is a victim is absolute proof that they were/are,
right?
>
>10. In rating the effectiveness of healing methods, therapists tend to
>favor stabilization techniques; survivors are more open to alternative
>ways to cope with indoctrinated belief systems.
>
>
Gee, that's the way ALL therapists and victims are. The
therapists will uniformly favor stabilization techniques, while the
victims of trauma will resist.
This isn't exclusive to victims of abuse.
Out of 10 points, you managed only one with which I can agree.
So much for your claim, "And I will present even more evidence that
ritual abuse exists in significant numbers below."
One is not a significant number.
--
-... .- -.. .-- --- .-.. ..-.
Kent Wills
CA didn't say *credible* evidence. That's the catch.
What little evidence there is has been proved false. As such, it
can't be called credible.
childadvocate
numbers than previously known.
http://ritualabuse.us
http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/
http://ritualabuse.us/mindcontrol/eas-studies/
Quotes from the data below :
"in a survey of 2,709 members of the American Psychological
Association, it was found that 30 percent of these professionals had
seen cases of ritual or religion-related abuse"
"Bottoms, Shaver and Goodman in their 1993 study to evaluate ritual
abuse claims found that in 2,292 alleged ritual abuse cases, 15% of
the perpetrators in adult cases and 30% of the perpetrators in child
cases confessed to the abuse."
"Perry also conducted a national survey of therapists who work with
clients with dissociative disorders and she found that 88 percent of
the 1,185 respondents indicated ”belief in ritual abuse, involving
mind control and programming” (p.3).”
"Satanic cult 55% (986 persons in extreme abuse survey replied yes)"
References
List of Satanic Ritual Abuse references -
http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/studies/satanic-ritual-abuse-evidence-with-information-on-the-mcmartin-preschool-case/
Lists of legal cases:
Believe the children (1997). “Conviction List: Ritual Child Abuse”.
http://www.ra-info.org/resources/ra_cases.shtml
The Satanism and Ritual Abuse Archive contains 92 cases as of February
12, 2008. http://www.endritualabuse.org/ritualabusearchive.htm
Web pages proving the existence of ritual abuse:
Noblitt, PhD, J. R. - An Empirical Look at the Ritual Abuse
Controversy (2007)
http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/an-empirical-look-at-the-ritual-abuse-controversy-randy-noblitt-phd/
Ritual Abuse Bibliography http://www.ra-info.org/library/articles/ra_arti1.shtml
Ritual Abuse Statistics & Research
http://web.archive.org/web/20071210161357/http://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/ra-stats.htm
Searchable releases on satanic ritual abuse http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psnews/
Frequently Asked Questions about Ritual Abuse and Mind Control
http://www.survivorship.org/faq.html
Satanic Ritual Abuse: The Evidence Surfaces By Daniel Ryder, CCDC, LSW
http://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/ra-evidence-surfaces.htm
2008 Publications on Ritual Abuse and Mind Control
http://www.endritualabuse.org/citation 2.htm
Lacter, E (2008-02-11). “Brief Synopsis of the Literature on the
Existence of Ritualistic Abuse”. http://endritualabuse.org/BriefSynopsis.htm
Ritual abuse diagnosis research - excerpt from a chapter in: Lacter,
E. & Lehman, K. (2008).Guidelines to Differential Diagnosis between
Schizophrenia and Ritual Abuse/Mind Control Traumatic Stress. In J.R.
Noblitt & P. Perskin(Eds.), Ritual Abuse in the Twenty-first Century:
Psychological, Forensic, Social and Political Considerations, pp.
85-154. Bandon, Oregon: Robert D. Reed Publishers. quotes: A second
study revealed that these results were unrelated to patients’ degree
of media and hospital milieu exposure to the subject of Satanic ritual
abuse. “In fact, in a survey of 2,709 members of the American
Psychological Association, it was found that 30 percent of these
professionals had seen cases of ritual or religion-related abuse .”
Responses are consistent with the devastating and pervasive abuse
these victims have experienced, so often including immediate family
members. http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/studies/ritual-abuse-diagnosis-research-2/
Understanding ritual trauma: A comparison of findings from three
online surveys - Handout for Karriker, Wanda. (2008, November).
Understanding ritual trauma: A comparison of findings from three
online surveys. Paper presented at the meeting of the International
Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation, Chicago, IL.
10 Extreme Abuse Survey Findings Helpful to Understanding Ritual
Trauma
1. Ritual abuse/mind control (RA/MC) is a global phenomenon.
2. A diagnosis of Dissociative Identity Disorder is common for persons
who report histories of
RA/MC. (84% of EAS respondents who answered that they have been
diagnosed with DID [N=655] reported that they are survivors of RA/MC).
3. Ritual abuse (RA) is not limited to SRA, i.e., satanic ritual
abuse, sadistic abuse, satanist abuse.
4. RA is reported to involve mind control techniques.
5. Some extreme abuse survivors report that they were used in
government-sponsored mind control experimentation (GMC).
6. RA/MC is reported to be involved in organized “known” crime.
7. RA/MC is reported to be involved in clergy abuse.
8. Most often reported memories of extreme abuse are similar across
all surveys.
9. Most often reported possible aftereffects of extreme abuse are
similar across all surveys.
10. In rating the effectiveness of healing methods, therapists tend to
favor stabilization techniques; survivors are more open to alternative
ways to cope with indoctrinated belief systems.
quotes:
"Extreme Abuse Survey (EAS) for Adult Survivors (An International
Online Survey for Adult Survivors of Extreme Abuse) January 1 – March
31, 2007 - 2337 persons viewed the survey"
"Numbers in parentheses represent total number of respondents for each
category of ritually abusive groups presented on the EAS. Percents
represent the frequencies of “yes” responses to each category.
(Respondents were not given an opportunity to write in other groups.)
Satanic cult 55% (986)
Gnostic-occult 14% (969)
Child pornography group 48% (977)
Religious sect 39% (993)
*Fascist group 22% (998)
Uncertain ideology 47% (994)
Witchcraft cult 23% (971)
Voodooism 7% (966)"
"987 persons responded to the question. Listed below are the
categories and the number and percent of survivors who chose each
category.
Ritual Abuse (RA) ……………………………………. 191 (19%)
Mind Control (MC) …………………………………… 69 (07%)
Ritual Abuse and Mind Control (RA-MC) …………..513 (52%)
Other Extreme Abuse (EA) …………………………..214 (22%)"
"EAS: 257 respondents reported that secret mind control experiments
were used on them as children."
MEDIA PACKET - Torture-based, Government-sponsored Mind Control
Experimentation on Children - Documentation that torture-
based,government-sponsored mind control (GMC) experimentation was
conducted on children during the Cold War. Data from two international
surveys that give voice, visibility, and validation to survivors of
these crimes against humanity….SURVEYS - EAS: Extreme Abuse Survey for
Adult Survivors (An International Online Survey for Adult Survivors of
Extreme Abuse) January 1 - March 30, 2007 with 1471 respondents from
31 named countries. P-EAS: Professional - Extreme Abuse Survey (An
International Online Survey for Therapists, Counselors, Clergy, and
Other Persons Who Have Worked Professionally with at Least One Adult
Survivor of Extreme Abuse) April 1 - June 30 2007 with 451 respondents
from 20 named countries. Contact: Wanda Karriker, PhD
san...@twave.net http://my.dmci.net/~casey/GovernmentSponsoredMindControlExperiments-MediaPacket.pdf
Kent Wills
<smar...@aol.com> wrote:
>The data below cannot be denied.
Yet it's denied every day by those who have examined the evidence.
Odd that.
>Ritual abuse exists in far greater
>numbers than previously known.
>
>http://ritualabuse.us
>http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/
>http://ritualabuse.us/mindcontrol/eas-studies/
>
>
>Quotes from the data below :
>
>"in a survey of 2,709 members of the American Psychological
>Association, it was found that 30 percent of these professionals had
>seen cases of ritual or religion-related abuse"
Ritualized abuse and religion-related abuse aren't necessarily the
same thing. As such, your figures are already in trouble.
[snip of the same old stuff that's been refuted more times than I care
to count]
Dan Sullivan
> The data below cannot be denied. Ritual abuse exists in far greater
> numbers than previously known.
>
>
> Quotes from the data below :
>
> "in a survey of 2,709 members of the American Psychological
> Association, it was found that 30 percent of these professionals had
> seen cases of ritual or religion-related abuse"
A survey!
> "Bottoms, Shaver and Goodman in their 1993 study to evaluate ritual
> abuse claims found that in 2,292 alleged ritual abuse cases, 15% of
> the perpetrators in adult cases and 30% of the perpetrators in child
> cases confessed to the abuse."
Confessed to abuse...
> "Perry also conducted a national survey of therapists who work with
> clients with dissociative disorders and she found that 88 percent of
> the 1,185 respondents indicated ”belief in ritual abuse, involving
> mind control and programming” (p.3).”
A survey???
This is supposed to be credible evidence?
There was a time everyone thought the world was flat and the sun
revolved around the earth.
jacq...@aol.com
> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:22:45 -0800 (PST), childadvocate
>
> >that there was evidence of child abuse at McMartin,
>
> Ritual Abuse. There was and is no evidence to support such an
> accusation.
>
> >only that the
>
> When there is zero credible evidence of a crime having been
> committed, this is the expected outcome.
> I'm surprised the cases were ever taken to trail.
The jurors themselves said that the prosecution did not prove their
case. Most people have no idea what is involved until they find
themselves involved in a case/trial. Do you believe Robert Blake,
Michael Jackson and OJ Simpson were "proven innocent" because they
were all acquitted?The prosecution in all of those cases didn't prove
their cases, either. Does that mean here was "zero evidence in those
cases either?
Funny how I told you why the so called experts who are making up all
the lies like; there was zero evidence, the first mother was mentally
ill, the one therapist implanted ALL of the stories and conspired with
the district attorney, sheriff, parents and police, there were no
tunnels... are not only not professional experts but, worse, have a
hidden agenda...which in a way, I guess, does make them experts-
experts on protecting pedophiles.
Not many of those who were involved in the real case (Not one of those
who say it was just hysteria was involved first hand) will speak out
because people like those who post here will just wear them down.
You really have no idea what the evidence in the case was. It was not
a "satanic ritual abuse " case but a child molestation case. There is
no law against satanism, but there is against child sexual abuse.
The physical evidence was prevalent. One young girl had an std
. Not much was known about the effects of sex abuse back then but
there was one expert Dr Bruce Woodling, MD. He compiled a stack of
reports from other MDs who had recorder their experiences with
sexually abused children over many years.
The Culposcope was new. Scarring was recorded in the case (using that
instrument) by Dr Astrid Heger.MD, a prominent pediatrician at USC.
You can just keep parroting those idiots or do your own research. It
seems that you are too lazy to do that though.
Ho Hum....I can't waste my time arguing with you if you won't believe
the people who were involved. Someday the world will be ready to see
the truth. I can wait.
Though I was there, and you weren't, you'd still argue with me.
jacq...@aol.com
> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:22:45 -0800 (PST), childadvocate
>
> >Don't have time to answer all of the questions above.
>
> What questions above? You didn't quote anything in your reply.
>
> >But I will say
> >that there was evidence of child abuse at McMartin,
>
> There may have been abuse. However, the initial claim was Satanic
> Ritual Abuse. There was and is no evidence to support such an
> accusation.
>
WRONG, Kent, The "initial claim" in the case was CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE!
Satanism was and is not against the law. Having sex with small
children IS and the charges were based on that.
You could easily look that one up.
jm
jacq...@aol.com
I knew her and her family.
She was drinking a lot toward the end. Her father told me she was
allergic to alcohol.
She had no other coping tools. She was "divorce poor"- that means she
and her kids had no money after her husband left her for another
woman. She had the house and a beat up VW bus. No cash flow, FYI
jacq...@aol.com
> On Nov 21, 3:52 pm, Kent Wills <compu...@gmail.com> wrote:> On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:54:19 -0800 (PST), childadvocate
> I made specific references, " childadvocate". You can view the
> Lanning report online. You can visit the False Memory web sites.
> Google " Kerr Cuhulain" and you will see his articles on claims or SRA
> and supposed ritual abuse survivors.
>
> But I'm betting you are way too fanatical to risk doing that.
> Moe
> Eternal FOREVER KNIGHT fan
> " A vampire cop? REALLY?"
> "http://home.earthlink.net/~19ranger57/blies.htm
Hi Moe:
I know Laning and I liked his report. I quoted form it all the time
when I was asked to speak on the case.
We have already given you the history of the FMSF and you continue to
point to them as the experts that "know" what happened in the case.
NONE of them were even there or involved in any way first hand.
And, really Kerr "Wiccan Warrior" Cululain? Don't ya think he may have
a small agenda to protect his fellow wiccans from accusations of child
abuse?
childadvocate
In regard to Lanning's "research":
"To my surprise, [Lanning] admits he has never talked to a ritual
abuse survivor" ... (several weeks later, Lanning revised his story to
say that he had spoken with 'several dozen' survivors on an unofficial
basis). (from "Nightmares on Main Street" by Leslie Bennetts, Vanity
Fair, June, 1993, pp 42 62, quote from Pg. 47)
How authoritative can a source be that first admits it didn't
interview anyone alleging they were ritually abused and then revises
their story to say they talked to a small sample size unofficially?
And Lanning only speaks for himself, not the FBI. And the FBI was
probably the last group to admit the mafia existed.
--
In regard to the comment: "Yet it's denied every day by those who
have examined the evidence. Odd that."
Actually it has been primarily been denied by those that have defended
alleged and convicted pedophiles, including child pornographers and
those with pro-pedophilia philosophies. In other words, it is has been
denied by those with a special interest to do so.
--
In regard to the comment:
> "in a survey of 2,709 members of the American Psychological Association, it was found that 30 percent of these professionals had seen cases of ritual or religion-related abuse" A survey!
Yes, it was published in the APSAC Advisor, a professional journal.
This is from Bottoms, Shaver & Goodman, 1991 paper presented at the
APA.
List of Satanic Ritual Abuse references -
http://ritualabusearticles.wordpress.com/category/satanic-ritual-abuse-evidence/
Lists of legal cases:
Believe the children (1997). “Conviction List: Ritual Child Abuse”.
http://www.ra-info.org/resources/ra_cases.shtml
The Satanism and Ritual Abuse Archive contains 92 cases as of February
12, 2008. http://www.endritualabuse.org/ritualabusearchive.htm
Web pages proving the existence of ritual abuse:
Noblitt, PhD, J. R. - An Empirical Look at the Ritual Abuse
Controversy (2007)
http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/an-empirical-look-at-the-ritual-abuse-controversy-randy-noblitt-phd/
Ritual Abuse Bibliography http://www.ra-info.org/library/articles/ra_arti1.shtml
Ritual Abuse Statistics & Research
http://web.archive.org/web/20071210161357/http://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/ra-stats.htm
Searchable releases on satanic ritual abuse http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psnews/
Frequently Asked Questions about Ritual Abuse and Mind Control
http://www.survivorship.org/faq.html
Satanic Ritual Abuse: The Evidence Surfaces By Daniel Ryder, CCDC, LSW
http://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/ra-evidence-surfaces.htm
2008 Publications on Ritual Abuse and Mind Control
http://www.endritualabuse.org/citation 2.htm
Lacter, E (2008-02-11). “Brief Synopsis of the Literature on the
Existence of Ritualistic Abuse”. http://endritualabuse.org/BriefSynopsis.htm
Ritual abuse diagnosis research - excerpt from a chapter in: Lacter,
E. & Lehman, K. (2008).Guidelines to Differential Diagnosis between
Schizophrenia and Ritual Abuse/Mind Control Traumatic Stress. In J.R.
Noblitt & P. Perskin(Eds.), Ritual Abuse in the Twenty-first Century:
Psychological, Forensic, Social and Political Considerations, pp.
85-154. Bandon, Oregon: Robert D. Reed Publishers. quotes: A second
study revealed that these results were unrelated to patients’ degree
of media and hospital milieu exposure to the subject of Satanic ritual
abuse. “In fact, less media exposure was associated with production of
more Satanic content in patients reporting ritual abuse, evidence that
reports of ritual abuse are not primarily the product of exposure
contagion.” Responses are consistent with the devastating and
pervasive abuse these victims have experienced, so often including
immediate family members. http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/studies/ritual-abuse-diagnosis-research-2/
Bottoms, Shaver and Goodman in their 1993 study to evaluate ritual
abuse claims found that in 2,292 alleged ritual abuse cases, 15% of
the perpetrators in adult cases and 30% of the perpetrators in child
cases confessed to the abuse. Data from Brown, Scheflin and Hammond
(1998).”Memory, Trauma Treatment, And the Law” (W. W. Norton) ISBN
0-393-70254-5 (p.62)
The Extreme Abuse Survey final results are online with
childadvocate
quotes:
a physician’s report that one of the children suffered “blunt force
trauma” of sexual areas.6 The parents were left to ponder why some of
the toddlers in the care of the McMartins had chlamydia, a sexually-
transmitted infection.7
6. McMartin trial record, evidentiary exhibit one. 7. Interviews with
parents.
August 12, 1983 Judy was shopping at a grocery store with her son in
the cart when he complained again of severe pain. Judy checked his
diaper and found blood. She went to yet another respected local
pediatrician and he diagnosed the boy as having been sodomized. The
doctor, mandated to report cases of child sexual abuse, reports the
case to authorities.
“In August 1982, a mother claimed she noticed blood in her son’s
diaper and an irritation around his rectum. A hospital exam confirmed
her worst fears her son has been sodomized. Asked who was responsible,
the toddler said, “Mr. Ray.” “Mr. Ray” was…a teacher at the McMartin
preschool, which the boy had –been attending. Later, when the boy was
questioned by local police, he named other children whom he claimed
also were present during the sexual abuse.”
November 1983 Children's Institute International interviewers begin
diagnosing former students of the McMartin Preschool as having been
sexually abused. Dr. Astrid Heger does medical examinations with an
innovative diagnostic tool called the culposcope. This microscopic
examination technique allows slide pictures to be taken of minute
scarring caused by penetration.
April 2, 1984 The L. A. Times reports that students at McMartin have
been fondled, raped, drugged, photographed nude, forced to witness
animals being slaughtered and threatened to keep silent.
April May, 1990 Tunnels are found under the foundation of the McMartin
preschool building by a team of Archaeologists headed by Dr. Gary
Stickel. Ground Penetrating Radar recently developed by the U.S. Army
is used to define the location of anomalies under ground. Three
segments of tunnel, one over 45 feet in length with a 9' x 9' room
area are found exactly where the children said they were.
Kent Wills
>On Nov 23, 4:02 pm, Kent Wills <compu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:22:45 -0800 (PST), childadvocate
>>
>> <smartn...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >Don't have time to answer all of the questions above.
>>
>> What questions above? You didn't quote anything in your reply.
>>
>> >But I will say
>> >that there was evidence of child abuse at McMartin,
>>
>> There may have been abuse. However, the initial claim was Satanic
>> Ritual Abuse. There was and is no evidence to support such an
>> accusation.
>>
>> >only that the
>> >[MCMARTIN] prosecution didn't adequately prove their case.
>>
>> When there is zero credible evidence of a crime having been
>> committed, this is the expected outcome.
>> I'm surprised the cases were ever taken to trail.
>
>
>
>The jurors themselves said that the prosecution did not prove their
>case.
That's what an acquittal means.
> Most people have no idea what is involved until they find
>themselves involved in a case/trial. Do you believe Robert Blake,
>Michael Jackson and OJ Simpson were "proven innocent" because they
>were all acquitted?
Have I ever claimed they were proved innocent? Ever?
Cite just one time I've claimed any were proved innocent. Go on.
Just one is all I ask.
>The prosecution in all of those cases didn't prove
>their cases, either. Does that mean here was "zero evidence in those
>cases either?
When did I claim zero evidence?
If you can't read, well, you can't read.
I wrote, as can be seen above, "When there is zero CREDIBLE
evidence..." (emphasis added)
Maybe in your fantasy world a lack of credible evidence equates
to a total lack of evidence, but for those of us in the real world,
the two are not the same thing.
I'm starting to see why you are able to blindly accept bogus
claims of abuse at the school. You ignore that which won't support
your pre-conceived ideas.
>
>Funny how I told you why the so called experts who are making up all
>the lies like; there was zero evidence, the first mother was mentally
>ill, the one therapist implanted ALL of the stories and conspired with
>the district attorney, sheriff, parents and police, there were no
>tunnels... are not only not professional experts but, worse, have a
>hidden agenda...which in a way, I guess, does make them experts-
>experts on protecting pedophiles.
In order for your claim to have any merit, then the people doing
the excavation must have been in on it too. They dug and found no
tunnels.
>
>Not many of those who were involved in the real case (Not one of those
>who say it was just hysteria was involved first hand) will speak out
>because people like those who post here will just wear them down.
Truth does have a way of wearing down lies.
>You really have no idea what the evidence in the case was. It was not
>a "satanic ritual abuse " case but a child molestation case.
But the claims were of Satanic Ritual Abuse.
If you'd like, I could find all sorts of credible links to the
reports.
>There is
>no law against satanism,
No one has claimed there is.
>but there is against child sexual abuse.
Yes.
Does arguing a point not in contention bring you some sort of
satisfaction?
>The physical evidence was prevalent. One young girl had an std
Can you offer a credible cite?
It's quite possible children were molested. However, there was
no credible evidence that any molestation occurred at the school.
>. Not much was known about the effects of sex abuse back then but
>there was one expert Dr Bruce Woodling, MD. He compiled a stack of
>reports from other MDs who had recorder their experiences with
>sexually abused children over many years.
Much was known. Documentation regarding the effects of
molestation can be found as far back as the 1960's.
>The Culposcope was new. Scarring was recorded in the case (using that
>instrument) by Dr Astrid Heger.MD, a prominent pediatrician at USC.
>You can just keep parroting those idiots or do your own research. It
>seems that you are too lazy to do that though.
I've done it. That's why I know the claims were false.
At one time I bought the whole SRA con. I believed there was a
massive conspiracy involving people at nearly every level.
When I started to examine the actual evidence, it turned out to be
bogus. The very few cases that could be made to fit the pattern of
SRA weren't done by any organized group.
>Ho Hum....I can't waste my time arguing with you if you won't believe
>the people who were involved.
So I should ignore the evidence that shows no one was molested at
the school and believe people who may or may not have been lying?
I hope you'll understand if I accept actual evidence over
testimony that may not be accurate.
If you wish to wear blinders to the truth, that's your right.
But don't expect everyone else to be so willing to ignore the truth.
>Someday the world will be ready to see
>the truth. I can wait.
>
The world has seen it and stated no one was molested at the
school.
>
>Though I was there, and you weren't, you'd still argue with me.
If you were there, then you are either lying, or you've helped to
hide the molestation. Which is it?
--
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons...
for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Kent Wills
I've done so. All credible evidence shows there was no sexual
abuse at the school.
Remain blinded to the truth if doing so makes your life easier.
Ultimately, it does me no harm.
Kent Wills
[...]
>Hi Moe:
>I know Laning and I liked his report. I quoted form it all the time
>when I was asked to speak on the case.
>We have already given you the history of the FMSF and you continue to
>point to them as the experts that "know" what happened in the case.
>NONE of them were even there or involved in any way first hand.
>And, really Kerr "Wiccan Warrior" Cululain? Don't ya think he may have
>a small agenda to protect his fellow wiccans from accusations of child
>abuse?
This is a new one to me.
When have Wiccans (you should capitalize the word, ya know) been
accused of child abuse?
Statistics state that there will be some child abusers who will
be Wicca, but the way you word it presents that most, if not all, are.
--
Political Correctness
A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority and
rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Kent Wills
<smar...@aol.com> wrote:
>http://ritualabuse.us
>
>In regard to Lanning's "research":
>
>"To my surprise, [Lanning] admits he has never talked to a ritual
>abuse survivor" ... (several weeks later, Lanning revised his story to
>say that he had spoken with 'several dozen' survivors on an unofficial
>basis). (from "Nightmares on Main Street" by Leslie Bennetts, Vanity
>Fair, June, 1993, pp 42 62, quote from Pg. 47)
>
>How authoritative can a source be that first admits it didn't
>interview anyone alleging they were ritually abused and then revises
>their story to say they talked to a small sample size unofficially?
>And Lanning only speaks for himself, not the FBI. And the FBI was
>probably the last group to admit the mafia existed.
>
The FBI has admitted the existence of the Mafioso for a very long
time. Think Eliot Ness era.
>--
>
>In regard to the comment: "Yet it's denied every day by those who
>have examined the evidence. Odd that."
>
>Actually it has been primarily been denied by those that have defended
>alleged and convicted pedophiles, including child pornographers and
>those with pro-pedophilia philosophies. In other words, it is has been
>denied by those with a special interest to do so.
Nice try, but as is the case with each of your posts, the truth
is the opposite of what you claim.
I have no interest in the case beyond the truth.
I am very much against pedophiles, and child pornography. No
amount of your dishonestly claiming I support either will work.
Why, exactly, have you been reduced to lying about me? Have I
managed to destroy your arguments so completely that you have nothing
left?
>
>--
>
>In regard to the comment:
>> "in a survey of 2,709 members of the American Psychological Association, it was found that 30 percent of these professionals had seen cases of ritual or religion-related abuse" A survey!
>
>Yes, it was published in the APSAC Advisor, a professional journal.
>This is from Bottoms, Shaver & Goodman, 1991 paper presented at the
>APA.
I'll let Dan handle this one, since you're quoting him.
Kent Wills
<smar...@aol.com> wrote:
>http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/mcmartin-preschool-case-what-really-happened-and-the-coverup/
>
>quotes:
>
>a physician’s report that one of the children suffered “blunt force
>trauma” of sexual areas.6 The parents were left to ponder why some of
>the toddlers in the care of the McMartins had chlamydia, a sexually-
>transmitted infection.7
>6. McMartin trial record, evidentiary exhibit one. 7. Interviews with
>parents.
[...]
You've been reduced to arguing points not in contention.
Whether any of the children were molested is acceptable, though
questionable. That it was SRA, as you initially claimed, is not.
You've yet to offer anything to support your claim of SRA.
Does you recent removal of yourself from your earlier claim mean
you accept that there was no Satanic activity involved at the school?
--
"Hail imp," shouted Vlad, the Imp Hailer.
Kent Wills
>On Nov 23, 4:02 pm, Kent Wills <compu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:22:45 -0800 (PST), childadvocate
>>
>> <smartn...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >Don't have time to answer all of the questions above.
>>
>> What questions above? You didn't quote anything in your reply.
>>
>> >But I will say
>> >that there was evidence of child abuse at McMartin,
>>
>> There may have been abuse. However, the initial claim was Satanic
>> Ritual Abuse. There was and is no evidence to support such an
>> accusation.
>>
>
>WRONG, Kent, The "initial claim" in the case was CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE!
UPDATE
CA's initial claim was of SRA. That you have to lie about
his/her claim only goes to prove how desperate you are.
--
Vegetarian: Indian word for lousy hunter.
childadvocate
Ritual abuse is defined in the Dictionary of Psychology as “A method
of control of people of all ages consisting of physical, sexual, and
psychological mistreatment through the use of rituals” (Corsini, 1999,
p. 848).
Young, Sacks, Braun & Watkins (1991) use the term “satanic ritual
abuse” to describe ritual abuse associated with satanic worship.
Becker and Fröhling (1998) caution that (1) a ritual can be staged to
make a victim believe that the ideological background is real, i.e., a
child is made to think she has murdered a baby as a sacrifice to Satan
or another deity, (2) that whether or not a ritual is staged, the
victim is bound into the real or faked belief system of the perpetrator
(s).
A June 2007 review of psychological and medical peer-reviewed journals
yielded 47 empirical studies
http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/studies/empirical-studies-related-to-ritual-abuse-june-2007/
of the RA phenomenon.
Bottoms, Shaver, and Goodman (1996) indicate that the majority of
surveyed therapists who have treated at least one alleged survivor
believe their clients’ claims of ritual abuse. Schmuttermaier and Veno
(1999) report that none of the counselors in their Australian study
believe that their clients intentionally fabricated claims of ritual
abuse.
Bottoms et al. constructed a prototype of 386 cases from the decade of
the 1980’s based on the particular features of abuse that clinical
psychologists had heard from their clients. They found the following:
The most common feature of ritual cases was “forced sex.” The next
most common was “repeated practices.” . . . Also common, however, were
abuse by a member of a cult-like group; abuse related to symbols
associated with the devil; abuse involving sacrifice or torture of
animals; abuse involving excrement or blood; and abuse involving
knives, altars, and candles. . . . The least common features of
ritualistic cases were abuse related to the breeding of infants for
ritual sacrifice, abuse involving cannibalism, child pornography, and
amnesic periods or preoccupation with dates. (p. 10)
Young et al. (1991) describe 37 adult patients, all diagnosed with
multiple personality disorder (MPD) or dissociative disorder not
otherwise specified who reported similar abuses by satanic cults.
Apparently, most of the data were collected while the patients were in
treatment with the authors. The article lists ten types of ritual
abuse and the percentage of subjects who reported each type: sexual
abuse (100%), witnessing and receiving physical abuse/torture (100%),
witnessing animal mutilation/killings (100%), death threats (100%),
forced drug usage (97%), witnessing and forced participation in human
adult and infant sacrifice (83%), forced cannibalism (81%), marriage
to Satan (78%), buried alive in coffins or graves (72%), forced
impregnation and sacrifice of own child (60%).
Shaffer and Cozolino (1992) interviewed 19 women and one man who
reported types and aftereffects of ritualistic abuse consistent with
those reported by Young et al. All subjects reported witnessing the
murder of animals, infants, children and/or adults. All reported
suicidal ideation and half reported suicide attempts. The majority
reported severe and sadistic forms of abuse by multiple perpetrators.
Some reported continued recontact/revictimization into their adult
years.
Satanic Ritual Abuse is an international phenomenon. Van der Hart,
Boon, and Heijtmajer (1997) describe reports of SRA in the
Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Norway, Spain, South Africa,
Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and the United States; Kent (1997),
in Canada; and Schmuttermaier and Veno (1999), in Australia. An
organization, Advocates for Survivors of Child Abuse (2006), also
includes reports of SRA in Australia.
In Ritual Abuse in the Twenty-First Century, German journalist, Ulla
Fröhling (2008), writes about her study that was published as a book
in 1996 titled Vater unser in der Hölle (Our Father Who Art in Hell).
Reprinted in 2008, it is about the life of a German woman with a
background of satanic ritual abuse:
The book had an impact: victims found a corroboration of their
experiences in it, and doctors and trauma therapists who work with
dissociative patients use it for workshops and training courses. A
parliamentary inquiry examined the topic of ritual abuse, as did the
Parliamentary select committee “Sects and Psycho-Groups,” which
mentions the book several times in its concluding report. Three
surveys on ritual abuse were carried out. Together with Michaela
Huber’s textbook Multiple Personlichkeiten (Multiple Personalities),
it changed the German public’s perception of one of the darkest areas
of organized violence. (p. 355)
Becker (2008) reported unpublished data from one of the above
mentioned surveys, a 1997 study by Fröhling and German psychotherapist
Michaela Huber. Of 354 cases in treatment for the aftereffects of
ritual abuse by 126 therapists and counselors from 61 locations in
Germany, 58% reported that they had been ritually abused in a satanic
cult.
Results from the 2007 International Extreme Abuse Surveys
http://extreme-abuse-survey.net/ offered in English and German
indicate that ritual abuse (including SRA) is widespread. More than
2000 persons from 40 countries responded to one or more of the surveys
for adult survivors of extreme abuse in childhood (EAS), for
professionals who work with survivors who report extreme abuse (P-
EAS), and for caregivers of children who disclose ritual abuse and its
associated mind control. SRA related data are reported by Becker,
Karriker, Overkamp, and Rutz (2008):
On the EAS, 543 respondents reported that they were ritually abused in
a satanic cult: 360 from the United States, 33 from Canada, 97 from
Europe, and 53 from other countries. (p. 41)
Respondents on the P-EAS were asked to report the approximate number
of their adult clients who had reported memories consistent with the
abuses/tortures listed. Of 219 professionals who responded to the
item: “Ritual abuse in a satanic cult,” 20 reported none, 56 reported
1, 74 reported between 2 and 10; 28 reported between 11 and 20; 41
reported more than 20. (p. 44)
On the C-EAS, 55 caregivers reported that the child or children under
their care had alleged a satanic cult as their perpetrator group. (p.
43)
References
Advocates for Survivors of Child Abuse. (2006). Ritual abuse & torture
in Australia. Online at http://www.asca.org.au/pdf_public/brochure_ritualabuse040201.pdf
Becker, Th. & Fröhling, U. (1998). Handout: Rituelle Gewalt (Ritual
Violence). Kult-und Ritual-Trauma-Institut. Lueneburg.
Becker, Th. (2008). Re-searching for new perspectives: Ritual abuse/
ritual violence as ideologically motivated crime. In R. Noblitt & P.
Noblitt (Eds.), Ritual abuse in the twenty-first century (pp.
237-260). Bandon, OR: Robert D. Reed.
Becker, Th., Karriker, W., Overkamp, B., & Rutz, C. (2008). The
Extreme Abuse Surveys: Preliminary findings regarding dissociative
identity disorder. In A. Sachs & G. Galton (Eds.), Forensic aspects of
dissociative identity disorder (pp. 32-49). London: Karnac.
Bottoms, B. L., Shaver, P. R., & Goodman, G. S. (1996). An analysis of
ritualistic and religion-related child abuse allegations. Law and
Human Behavior
Corsini, R. J. (1999). The dictionary of psychology. Philadelphia:
Brunner/Mazel.
Fröhling, U. (1996). (2008). Vater unser in der Hölle
http://www.vaterunserinderhölle.de/ (Our Father Who
Art in Hell). Bergisch-Gladbach: Luebbe.
Kent, S. (1997). Assessment of the satanic abuse allegations in the
(name deleted) case. Online at http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/~skent/satanic.html
Schmuttermaier, J., & Veno, A. (1999). Counselors’ beliefs about
ritual abuse: An Australian study. Journal of Child Sexual Abuse, 8
(3), 45-63. Abstract obtained from PsycINFO. No. 2000-13414-003.
Shaffer, R. E., & Cozolino, L.J. (1992). Adults who report childhood
ritualistic abuse. Journal of Psychology & Theology, 20(3), 188-193.
van der Hart, O., Boon, S., & Heijtmajer J. O. (1997). Ritual abuse in
European countries: A clinician’s perspective. In G. A. Fraser (Ed.),
The dilemma of ritual abuse: Cautions and guides for therapists (pp.
137-163). Washington, DC: American Psychiatric Press.
Young, W. C., Sachs, R. G., Braun, B. G., & Watkins, R. T. (1991).
Patients reporting ritual abuse in childhood: a clinical syndrome.
Report of 37 cases. Child Abuse and Neglect, 15(3), 181-189.
Greegor
Professional WHAT? APSAC is slightly biased in favor
of believing EVERYBODYabuses their child.
jacq...@aol.com
My gosh, Mr--or is it Dr.?- Williams. I didn't realize you were an
credited expert. Or why would I quote you? I didn't address you
personally. Where do I find your quotes? Did you write a book? Or are
you just an expert n this list? What is your reason for such heated
involvement with this issue? I am not interested in a discussion about
what "you" said. Thanks
> >The prosecution in all of those cases didn't prove
> >their cases, either. Does that mean here was "zero evidence in those
> >cases either?
>
> When did I claim zero evidence?
I don't know (or think it is important to a public discuaaion) what
"you" said. I won't argue that. I wasn't addressing just "you."
> If you can't read, well, you can't read.
I have read more on this issue than most people--in the form of legal
papers, thesis, and Medical reports. I have also read tons of FMSF
originated articles.
> I wrote, as can be seen above, "When there is zero CREDIBLE
> evidence..." (emphasis added)
> Maybe in your fantasy world a lack of credible evidence equates
> to a total lack of evidence, but for those of us in the real world,
> the two are not the same thing.
> I'm starting to see why you are able to blindly accept bogus
> claims of abuse at the school. You ignore that which won't support
> your pre-conceived ideas.
>
Yes, I "blindly" accepted the complaints of the children..firsthand.
Helped them through their pain, night terrors and fears. Where do you
get your experience with this?
Were you or do you know someone that was falsely accused???
>
> >Funny how I told you why the so called experts who are making up all
> >the lies like; there was zero evidence, the first mother was mentally
> >ill, the one therapist implanted ALL of the stories and conspired with
> >the district attorney, sheriff, parents and police, there were no
> >tunnels... are not only not professional experts but, worse, have a
> >hidden agenda...which in a way, I guess, does make them experts-
> >experts on protecting pedophiles.
>
> In order for your claim to have any merit, then the people doing
> the excavation must have been in on it too. They dug and found no
> tunnels.
>
The experts that were hired in 1985 and the ones hired in 1989 were in
agreement.
It is documented in the addendum of the formal report of 1990.
Cite for us exactly where you are reading or hearing "there were no
tunnels"? The first place I heard that was form Debbie Nathan (who has
a background in psychic phone lines, movie reviewer and freelance
reporter of human interest stories) It has been repeated by others.
It is patently untrue. there were tunnels at one time under the
foundation of the school building. I was there...were you?
>
> >Not many of those who were involved in the real case (Not one of those
> >who say it was just hysteria was involved first hand) will speak out
> >because people like those who post here will just wear them down.
>
> Truth does have a way of wearing down lies.
No, really it just is frustrating to argue with misinformed, closed
minded people.
>
> >You really have no idea what the evidence in the case was. It was not
> >a "satanic ritual abuse " case but a child molestation case.
>
> But the claims were of Satanic Ritual Abuse.
> If you'd like, I could find all sorts of credible links to the
> reports.
Go for it. You should include transcripts from the trial.
> >There is
> >no law against satanism,
>
> No one has claimed there is.
You are by insinuating that the perps were charged with SRA-they
weren't---they were charged with child molestation.
Duh, they (they being not the D.A.-but the public-specifically the
media-it sells papers) added the word "satanic" to the kind of abuse
the kids suffered. It was NEVER part of the initial accusations. You'd
have to read some court transcripts instead of FMSF propaganda-I doubt
you would go to the trouble.
>
> >but there is against child sexual abuse.
>
> Yes.
> Does arguing a point not in contention bring you some sort of
> satisfaction?
We can ask you the same question....
>
> >The physical evidence was prevalent. One young girl had an std
>
> Can you offer a credible cite?
> It's quite possible children were molested. However, there was
> no credible evidence that any molestation occurred at the school.
500 police reports to the MBPD. They could not have known each other
and plotted this. Most of the kids were under 5.
Nope, I can't offer a credible site on that child. The family dropped
out of the trial and moved away. They were devistated and did not want
to publicly embarrass their child, they told me. I will not reveal
their names publicly.
>
> >. Not much was known about the effects of sex abuse back then but
> >there was one expert Dr Bruce Woodling, MD. He compiled a stack of
> >reports from other MDs who had recorder their experiences with
> >sexually abused children over many years.
>
> Much was known. Documentation regarding the effects of
> molestation can be found as far back as the 1960's.
I meant not much was known by the public/media.
>
> >The Culposcope was new. Scarring was recorded in the case (using that
> >instrument) by Dr Astrid Heger.MD, a prominent pediatrician at USC.
> >You can just keep parroting those idiots or do your own research. It
> >seems that you are too lazy to do that though.
>
> I've done it. That's why I know the claims were false.
> At one time I bought the whole SRA con. I believed there was a
> massive conspiracy involving people at nearly every level.
> When I started to examine the actual evidence, it turned out to be
> bogus. The very few cases that could be made to fit the pattern of
> SRA weren't done by any organized group.
>
> >Ho Hum....I can't waste my time arguing with you if you won't believe
> >the people who were involved.
>
> So I should ignore the evidence that shows no one was molested at
> the school and believe people who may or may not have been lying?
You show us that evidence that shows no one was molested at the
school. Someone else besides FMSF.
> I hope you'll understand if I accept actual evidence over
> testimony that may not be accurate.
> If you wish to wear blinders to the truth, that's your right.
> But don't expect everyone else to be so willing to ignore the truth.
>
> >Someday the world will be ready to see
> >the truth. I can wait.
>
> The world has seen it and stated no one was molested at the
> school.
The world? Seriously? Not the 500 families families that initally
filed police reports with the MBPD. BTW-of course the town of MB does
not want the McMartin legacy. They didn't want the Bruce's Beach
legacy either. That is an area between 26th and 27th street where the
(prevalent at that time) KKK drove the blacks out of town.
>
>
> >Though I was there, and you weren't, you'd still argue with me.
>
> If you were there, then you are either lying, or you've helped to
> hide the molestation. Which is it?
>
Some are surely helping to hide the molestation. We parents formed a
group (Children' s Defense Fund) that passed a law (SB47) to allow
closed circuit testimony for severely abused children. It stood up in
Superior court and is now law. How is that hiding the molestation of
the children?
> --
> Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons...
> for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Yep, it is the affairs of dragons you are defending. But the truth
DOES always win out.
Your arguments are all very weak be cause your experts are just not
credible.
List them for us.
jacq...@aol.com
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:51:45 -0800 (PST), jacque...@aol.com wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >Hi Moe:
> >I know Laning and I liked his report. I quoted form it all the time
> >when I was asked to speak on the case.
> >We have already given you the history of the FMSF and you continue to
> >point to them as the experts that "know" what happened in the case.
> >NONE of them were even there or involved in any way first hand.
> >And, really Kerr "Wiccan Warrior" Cululain? Don't ya think he may have
> >a small agenda to protect his fellow wiccans from accusations of child
> >abuse?
>
> This is a new one to me.
> When have Wiccans (you should capitalize the word, ya know) been
> accused of child abuse?
Yep...satanist should be capitolized, too. Are you Wiccan?
> Statistics state that there will be some child abusers who will
> be Wicca, but the way you word it presents that most, if not all, are.
>
> --
No, I know Wiccan members/groups that I don't think are child
molesters.I do not believe they are "all child molesters" I have read
lots of their literature.
I still probably would not leave my small child with them.
> Political Correctness
>
> A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority and
> rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
> which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
> to pick up a turd by the clean end.
I agree--the media promoted the satanism thing. And now those who
would be 'experts' quote that same media. Go to the source for the
truth.
Kent Wills
It is neither, as the attribution lines show.
>I didn't realize you were an
>credited expert. Or why would I quote you?
You quoted me because that how Usenet works. You quote the person
to whom you are replying.
>I didn't address you
>personally.
If you're going to lie, make certain the proof of your lie isn't
included in your posts.
As can be seen in the attributions above, you replied to me. Note
the bit that states, "On Nov 23, 4:02 pm, Kent Wills
<compu...@gmail.com> wrote:"
>Where do I find your quotes?
In the post to which you replied.
>Did you write a book?
A few. None worthy of publishing.
>Or are
>you just an expert n this list?
What list?
>What is your reason for such heated
>involvement with this issue?
It's not heated. I'm calmly exposing the deception being
presented about SRA.
>I am not interested in a discussion about
>what "you" said. Thanks
>
Then why, exactly, did you waste time asking so many questions?
Is this what you do anytime someone exposes the flaws in your
statements? Dismiss them by claiming you don't want a discussion with
you?
If doing so is what you need to believe the lie of SRA, so be it.
--
"Hail imp," shouted Vlad, the Imp Hailer.
>
jacq...@aol.com
Kent,
What do you mean by CA? The people of California? Or did you mean
D.A.? Either way, the charges were child abuse. the word satanic was
not anywhere in the charges. This is such basic research that you
should be able to figure it out. The media at the time even got that
one right.
Hey, just what is your background and interest in this?
Your vegetarian comment made me wonder.
The kids I know that are now grown up are mostly vegetarian.
jacq...@aol.com
Oh, Greegor, really..EVERYBODY abuses their child?
If you can say that then I can say FMSF believes no child is EVER
abused.
Kent Wills
>On Nov 24, 9:18 pm, Kent Wills <compu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:51:45 -0800 (PST), jacque...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> >Hi Moe:
>> >I know Laning and I liked his report. I quoted form it all the time
>> >when I was asked to speak on the case.
>> >We have already given you the history of the FMSF and you continue to
>> >point to them as the experts that "know" what happened in the case.
>> >NONE of them were even there or involved in any way first hand.
>> >And, really Kerr "Wiccan Warrior" Cululain? Don't ya think he may have
>> >a small agenda to protect his fellow wiccans from accusations of child
>> >abuse?
>>
>> This is a new one to me.
>> When have Wiccans (you should capitalize the word, ya know) been
>> accused of child abuse?
>
>
>Yep...satanist should be capitolized, too.
Correct. I see your ignorance knows no bounds.
>Are you Wiccan?
>
No.
>
>> Statistics state that there will be some child abusers who will
>> be Wicca, but the way you word it presents that most, if not all, are.
>>
>> --
>
>
>No, I know Wiccan members/groups that I don't think are child
>molesters.
I wrote abusers. Molestation is a form of abuse, but it's not
the only one.
>I do not believe they are "all child molesters" I have read
>lots of their literature.
> I still probably would not leave my small child with them.
Do you ask the sitter what his/her religious views are?
>
>> Political Correctness
>>
>> A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority and
>> rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
>> which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
>> to pick up a turd by the clean end.
>
>I agree--the media promoted the satanism thing. And now those who
>would be 'experts' quote that same media. Go to the source for the
>truth.
You would do well to follow that advice, and check the
credibility of the source.
--
Bless me, Father, for I have committed an original sin.
I poked a badger with a spoon.
Kent Wills
>On Nov 24, 9:28 pm, Kent Wills <compu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:37:42 -0800 (PST), jacque...@aol.com wrote:
>> >On Nov 23, 4:02 pm, Kent Wills <compu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:22:45 -0800 (PST), childadvocate
>>
>> >> <smartn...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >> >Don't have time to answer all of the questions above.
>>
>> >> What questions above? You didn't quote anything in your reply.
>>
>> >> >But I will say
>> >> >that there was evidence of child abuse at McMartin,
>>
>> >> There may have been abuse. However, the initial claim was Satanic
>> >> Ritual Abuse. There was and is no evidence to support such an
>> >> accusation.
>>
>> >WRONG, Kent, The "initial claim" in the case was CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE!
>>
>> UPDATE
>>
>> CA's initial claim was of SRA. That you have to lie about
>> his/her claim only goes to prove how desperate you are.
>>
>> --
>> Vegetarian: Indian word for lousy hunter.
>
>Kent,
>What do you mean by CA?
ChildAdvocate, obviously.
You should pay attention to the attribution lines and previous
posts. 10 seconds or less of looking would have made my reference
quite clear.
"On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:22:45 -0800 (PST), childadvocate..."
Since I, and others, have been referring to him/her as CA for a
while, you should have been able to figure it out.
If something so easy to check is beyond your means, why should
anyone accept your claims about that which requires more work?
>The people of California? Or did you mean
>D.A.? Either way, the charges were child abuse.
CA's initial claim was of SRA. You can deny this truth as often as
you want. The truth will remain the truth.
>the word satanic was
>not anywhere in the charges.
In MID
0f05fc5a-5456-4922...@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com CA
wrote, "PRESS RELEASE Wikipedia “Satanic Ritual Abuse” article
promotes PEDOPHILIA"
That post is what started the discussions.
Further, I've not written about the charges. CA's claims are not
charges.
By claiming the topic of charges was being discussed, when 100%
of the evidence shows claims, only serves to further damage your
credibility.
>This is such basic research that you
>should be able to figure it out. The media at the time even got that
>one right.
>
Please prove that CA did not claim SRA. Go on. You're presenting
that I'm wrong, so you should be able to offer something to support
your position.
Oh wait, I quoted him/her and included the MID so that my quote
can be verified.
Do you have to work at being so wrong, or does it come naturally
to you?
>
>
>Hey, just what is your background and interest in this?
My background consists of having bought into the whole SRA con
back in '93 and '94. When I actually started checking the facts, I
found the claim to be without merit.
My interest comes from CA sending the post with MID
0f05fc5a-5456-4922...@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com
which caught my attention.
>Your vegetarian comment made me wonder.
>The kids I know that are now grown up are mostly vegetarian.
I'm a vegetarian. That's what makes the sig funny, IMO. You'll
probably see the humor, lame as it is, now as well.
Greegor
> My gosh, Mr--or is it Dr.?- Williams. I didn't realize you were an
> credited expert. Or why would I quote you? I didn't address you
> personally. Where do I find your quotes? Did you write a book? Or are
> you just an expert n this list? What is your reason for such heated
> involvement with this issue? I am not interested in a discussion about
> what "you" said. Thanks
He's Kent Bradley Wills DOB Jan 8, 1969
of Little Rock, Arkansas.
Convicted in Iowa (2005) for Garage Burglary
His LOSING appeal argued that an attached
garage is not part of a residence for the
purpose of a "residential burglary" conviction.
My name is Greg Hanson and I've got
two 14 year old misdemeanor Domestic
Violence convictions.
Kent and I are in strong opposition most of the time.
Not this time.
Jaque, you posted 43 times, all in November?
No posting for 20 MONTHS prior to that?
All related to mind control and RSCA?
Are you Catholic, Jaque?
How ABOUT that clergy sex scandal, eh?
Ever heard of Haut De Guerrine?
Wenatchee WA? Savage/Shakopee MN?
In MN a caseworker told me "They're all guilty, we just can't prove
it.".
The reality was a crazy prosecutor projecting her
own psychosis/experience onto the subject kids.
Interestingly, I asked a caseworker at that time
and she said "They're all guilty, we just can't prove it.".
She broke many rules, like one that says
she should not bribe kids with toys/teddy bears
to tell the sordid stories she wanted to hear.
The MN witch hunt there was brought to an end
when a Sheriff refused to honor any more of her
arrest warrants.
BTW, I saw footage of parents digging at
the McMartin preschool site, and even though
highly motivated to find tunnels, they certainly
did not find any evidence of any tunnels.
Tell me, Jaque, do you think we should
direct public policy and courts based on
your web of beliefs surrounding RSCA
and ""mind control"" ?
Most of the time I am arguing not about the
criminal child abuse witch hunts, but about
the even LESS constitutional doings of
the Juvenile courts, where caseworkers
make up nightmares and fairy tales to
justify the very real nightmares they bring
upon innocent families every day.
Do you think we should run our legal
process even MORE like a witch hunt?
Should rumors, beliefs and hysteria rule the courts?
How would you honor the Constitution?
Or would you?
Dan Sullivan
> jaque wrote
>
> > My gosh, Mr--or is it Dr.?- Williams. I didn't realize you were an
> > credited expert. Or why would I quote you? I didn't address you
> > personally. Where do I find your quotes? Did you write a book? Or are
> > you just an expert n this list? What is your reason for such heated
> > involvement with this issue? I am not interested in a discussion about
> > what "you" said. Thanks
>
> He's Kent Bradley Wills DOB Jan 8, 1969
> of Little Rock, Arkansas.
> Convicted in Iowa (2005) for Garage Burglary
> His LOSING appeal argued that an attached
> garage is not part of a residence for the
> purpose of a "residential burglary" conviction.
>
> My name is Greg Hanson and I've got
> two 14 year old misdemeanor Domestic
> Violence convictions.
For abusing his mentally ill wife.
Not to forget that in 2001 you caused the police to remove your
girlfriend's seven year old daughter due to your inappropriate
behavior and you are listed on the Iowa State Child Abuse Registry.
Kent Wills
<Gree...@gmail.com> wrote:
> jaque wrote
>> My gosh, Mr--or is it Dr.?- Williams. I didn't realize you were an
>> credited expert. Or why would I quote you? I didn't address you
>> personally. Where do I find your quotes? Did you write a book? Or are
>> you just an expert n this list? What is your reason for such heated
>> involvement with this issue? I am not interested in a discussion about
>> what "you" said. Thanks
>
>He's Kent Bradley Wills DOB Jan 8, 1969
Wrong.
>of Little Rock, Arkansas.
Wrong.
>Convicted in Iowa (2005) for Garage Burglary
Wrong.
>His LOSING appeal argued that an attached
>garage is not part of a residence for the
>purpose of a "residential burglary" conviction.
I realize your various mental defects have you believing that an
attached garage is not a part of the residence under Iowa law but
you're wrong. You may recall I even offered cites to applicable
statute showing you that it is a part of the residence.
No amount of your expressing your delusions will ever alter this
very simple truth.
>
>My name is Greg Hanson and I've got
>two 14 year old misdemeanor Domestic
>Violence convictions.
>
You also are on Iowa's Child Abuse Registry for the various ways
you abused Lisa Watkin's six or seven year old girl.
You have a sick attraction to pre and early pubescent girls.
[snip of items for which I have no comment]
"My family's case is for Neglect, but we are treated
in virtually every regard as child abusers, marked on
the Child Abuse registry, for example."
-- Gregory Scott Hanson, inmate 1104135, wife and child abuser.
Message-ID: <35120b16.04011...@posting.google.com>
Greegor
KW > into the whole SRA con back in '93 and '94.
KW > When I actually started checking the facts,
KW > I found the claim to be without merit.
Is that before or after you established the Kent Wills brain trust?
Greegor
Dan himself was similarly listed on at least 5 occasions.
Possibly 15 or more if they track unfounded/undetermined
cases on their registry.
That registry is a matter of caseworker opinion, not a court.
He's hoping you'll confuse it with the sex offender registry.
Why do you suppose Dan didn't tell you that
he was on the same kind of registry for
at least 5 different investigations?
LOL
PS - Both dan and I had ex-wives who were bipolar.
I never made babies with my mental case ex wife.
Dan did.
Ask Dan to tell you about the Puppet bear condom he used on his
daughter.
Dan's criminal record is secret, mine is not.
Dan tends to attack in one liners, Kent tends to
speachify, talk in circles, and distract with semantics
and other knit picking stupidity.
Did you notice that Dan hasn't said word ONE about RSCA itself?
Dan's like a cowardly sniper.
Greegor
G > garage is not part of a residence for the
G > purpose of a "residential burglary" conviction.
Check out the appeal, Jacque, and see
if the argument style doesn't look like "our Kent"!
LOL
Kent Wills
Outside of you most recent proof that you can't be honest about
anything at any time, ever, no matter what, there is no such brain
trust.
What, exactly, forces you to lie in every post? This is a
serious question you've yet to answer. Heck, you've yet to
acknowledge it any of the numerous times I've asked.
Is honesty so difficult for you?
http://www.stalkingbehavior.com/definiti.htm
Stalking is defined as "the willful, malicious and repeated
following and harassing of another person" (Meloy, 1998).
-- Gregory Scott Hanson, inmate 1104135, wife and child abuser,
posting a definition of stalking so that he could accuse others of
stalking him.
Message-ID: <1150922197.4...@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Kent Wills
Your Fregoli Delusion is showing again. In a reply to my post,
you address Jacque.
You do this sort of thing frequently. Are you really as mentally
screwed up as you present, or are you laying the ground work for a
future insanity defense? I'm very curious.
childadvocate
Ritual Abuse Statistics & Research
NUMBERS OF SURVIVORS A single survivor advocate reports direct contact
with more than 3,000 survivors. [ StarDancer as quoted by David
McCulley, Satanic Ritual Abuse: A Question of Memory, 1993]
CORRECTION: During Personal conversation with StarDancer for update
and verification, she stated, "I would feel comfortable saying I’ve
met or spoken with more than 1,000 people who identify themselves as
survivors…Our estimate of the people who have read and used
Survivorship is 3,000."
I talked to one of the leaders in the Los Angeles County Task Force on
Ritual Abuse, who estimate that there have been more than a hundred
California preschools implicated in ritual abuse. [James Friesen,
Uncovering the Mystery of MPD, 1991]
Among 2,709 members of the American Psychological Association who
responded to a poll, 2,292 cases of ritual abuse were reported.
[Bottoms, Shaver, & Goodman, 1993]
At a 1991 Utah workshop, thirty-two mental health therapists reported
treating 360 separate survivors of ritual abuse. By early 1992 the
following statement had been signed by sixty-six Utah therapists: "We,
the undersigned mental health professional, have each heard memories
of ritual abuse recounted by some patients, as have therapists across
the nation. We believe these patients’ allegations to have basis in
fact. We are dismayed by accusations that therapists brainwash their
patients or collude to create a mental health problem where none
existed. We urge our public officials to take appropriate actions to
counter ritual crimes." The names on the signed petition, affirming
the above statement, are given in the 1992 report of the Utah
Governor’s Task Force on Ritual Abuse. [A. Horton, B. Harrison & B.
Johnson, editors, Confronting Abuse, 1993]
Of the sixty victims with whom I have met, fifty-three are female and
seven are male. Eight are children. The abuse occurred in the
following places: Utah (37), Idaho (3), California (4), Mexico (2),
and other places (14). Fifty-three victims are currently living in the
state of Utah . All sixty individuals are members of the Church. Forty-
five victims allege witnessing and/or participating in human
sacrifice. The majority were abused by relatives, often their parents.
All have developed psychological problems and most have been diagnosed
as having multiple personality disorder or some other form of
dissociative disorder. [Bishop Glenn L. Pace, " LDS Church Report to
the Strengthening Church Members Committee," 1990]
In 1992 alone, Childhelp USA logged 1,741 calls pertaining to ritual
abuse, Monarch Resources of Los Angeles logged approximately 5,000,
Real Active Survivors tallied nearly 3,600, Justus Unlimited of
Colorado received almost 7,000, and Looking Up of Maine handled around
6,000. Even allowing for some of these calls to have been made by
people who assist survivors but are not themselves survivors, and for
some survivors to have called more than one helpline or made multiple
calls to the same helpline, these numbers suggest that at a minimum
there must be tens of thousands of survivors of ritual abuse in the
United States. [Catherine Gould, Cultural and Economic Barriers to
Protecting Children from Ritual Abuse and Mind Control, 1995]
Published results of a nationwide study of substantiated reports of
sexual abuse in day care involving 1,639 young child victims. Thirteen
percent of these cases were found to involve ritual abuse. [Finkelhor,
William and Burns, 1988] An ‘ad hoc’ study on Ritual Abuse in Germany
done by Ulla Fröhling, journalist and author of "Vater unser in der
Hoelle" - "Our father which art in hell" - called the "first in-depth
German study of a DID-patient with a background of severe home abuse,
child prostitution, and sadistic ritual abuse;" and Michaela Huber in
1997. They sent 355 questionnaires throughout Germany , 126 returned
and 113 have been evaluated. Every 'maybe' or 'perhaps' was excluded,
which led to a total of 354 cases in treatment -- 299 in current
treatment – of Ritual Abuse in Germany. These patients or clients were
treated at 61 locations in Germany . [Thorsten Becker, "Ritual Abuse:
A German Cult-Counsellors Perspective," Presentation at the Symposium
on Psychic Trauma and Dissociation, Utrecht [ Netherlands ], October
28. 1999]
In 1993, Boon and Draijer described the clinical phenomena of 71 Dutch
DID patients. Follow up data on this cohort of patients indicate that
38.8% of the patients (N = < 27) had mentioned some form of SRA in the
course of treatment (Boon & Draijer, 1993b). These patients lived in
different regions in the Netherlands and they were treated by 19
different clinicians (Boon and Draijer 1993b). In this study,
spontaneously given accounts of SRA and drawings on the subject showed
a striking resemblance to those of North American patients (cf Young
et al. 1991). [Onno van der Hart, "Reports on Ritual Abuse in European
Countries: A Clinician’s Perspective," 1998]
A survey done in June 2000, at the National Victim Assistance Academy
in Fresno , CA , 82 questionnaires given out, 44 criminal justice
professionals responded to the questions, "Have you or a co-worker
ever worked with a client/victim that claimed to be a victim of
satanic ritual abuse?" Seventeen, 38% of respondents, had worked with
clients who claimed to be victims of satanic ritual abuse or had co-
workers who had worked with these clients. [Dawn Mattox, Butte
County , CA , District Attorney’s Office, 2000]
MEMORY REPRESSION
Traumatic memories, which typically are engraved in the sensorimotor
processes, are not subject to the same kinds of contamination that can
affect normal memory. Traumatic amnesia, described in the DSM-IIIR as
psychogenic amnesia, is a phenomenon which has been known to mental
health professionals for more than 100 years. [Dr. Bessel van der
Kolk, Harvard Medical School , as quoted by David McCulley, Satanic
Ritual Abuse: A Question of Memory, 1993] Two disparate responses to
trauma have been noted by researchers. In some instances the memory is
hyper-potentiated and the event remains unforgettably vivid. When
severe, repeated trauma occurs early in life, the stress of the
experience may overload the circuitry of the brain’s limbic system,
preventing the information from reaching the hippocampus. Instead, the
trauma is engraved in the sensorimotor processes and is dissociated
from the victim’s conscious awareness. [van der Volk as quoted by
David McCulley, Satanic Ritual Abuse: A Question of Memory, 1993]
Only when a triggering circumstance breaks through the amnestic
barrier does the person retrieve, often it bits and pieces, the memory
of the traumatic event…When the suspended encounter is triggered, the
threatening event is experienced as happening now, in full present
time. [Ivor Browne as quoted by David McCulley, Satanic Ritual Abuse:
A Question of Memory, 1993]
In a 1991 informal survey, 93% of APA therapists who have personal
experience with adult SRA survivors stated they believe the memories
of SRA are accurate. Contrary to accusations, many have been skeptical
at first. [James Quan, Consolidation of SRA and False Memory Data,
1996]
Blisters and scars sometimes reappear and fresh blood may flow from
tissues ravaged long ago. Clinicians who witness these abreactive
episodes are not likely to challenge van der Volk’s dictum that the
body cannot lie. [van der Volk as quoted by David McCulley, Satanic
Ritual Abuse: A Question of Memory, 1993]
A new McLean Hospital study suggests that contrary to popular belief,
psychotherapy does not frequently play a role in recalling forgotten
memories of childhood abuse. Moreover, the study found that there is
often independent corroboration of the abuse memories. In addition,
most study participants believed that they recovered memories without
any suggestion by therapists or others. [Associated Press, Belmont ,
MA , June 2, 1999 ]
FMSF
There is no diagnosis of "false memory syndrome" in the Diagnostic and
Statistical Manual. It is a term created for maximum media impact,
serving those who have the most to lose if the truth is revealed.
[Anne Hart, California Therapist]
What percentage involve false accusations of familial abuse, and which
are merely the self-serving protestations of pedophiles and ritual
abusers? No one knows. Further, all of the research they cite, such as
the experiments of Elizabeth Loftus, deal not with traumatic memory
but with normal, or explicit memory. What studies of normal memory
demonstrate is a high degree of malleability and potential distortion
over time. [David McCulley, Satanic Ritual Abuse: A Question of
Memory, 1993]
MEMORY REPRESSION STUDIES
129 women with documented histories of childhood sexual assault
participated in extensive individual interviews. The most significant
finding was that 38% of the women in the sample reported no
recollection of the index event, even though it was firmly documented
by hospital records. Children who had a close relationship with the
perpetrator were more likely to develop psychogenic amnesia than those
abused by strangers. [Linda Meyer Williams, University of New
Hampshire as quoted by David McCulley, Satanic Ritual Abuse: A
Question of Memory, 1993]
In a sample of 53 women who disclosed memories of abuse for which they
had been amnestic, 74% of the subjects were able to find independent
confirmation from family members, pornographic photos or diaries.
[Judith Herman and Emily Schatzow as quoted by David McCulley, Satanic
Ritual Abuse: A Question of Memory, 1993]
DID/MPD
Current research shows that DID(MPD) may affect 1% of the general
population and perhaps as many as 5-20% of people in psychiatric
hospitals, many of whom have received other diagnoses. The incidence
rates are even higher among sexual abuse survivors and individuals
with chemical dependencies. These statistics put DID(MPD)/DD in the
same category as schizophrenia, depression, and anxiety, as one of the
four major mental health problems today. [Sidran Foundation, DID/MPD
Brochure, 1994]
The typical alters that are found in a person with MPD include: a
depressed, depleted host; a strong, angry protector; a scared, hurt
child; a helper; and, an embittered internal persecutor who blames (or
persecutes) one or more alters for the abuse that has been suffered.
While there may be other types of alters in any given MPD individual,
most of them will be variations on the theme of these 5 alters.
[Divided Hearts Website FAQ, 1999] Studies indicate that approximately
25% of those with MPD in North American have been subjected to SRA,
and SRA is why they developed MPD in the first place. The dissociation
of MPD is the best way children have of dealing with the trauma. In my
discussions with Southern California MPD therapists, I have found a
consensus that 25% is a low estimate. Many of us believe the
percentage is much higher, at least in our own region. I have heard
estimates as high as 50 to 60%. It is hard to believe, but there may
be 100,000 people or more in the United States who were subjected to
SRA as children. [James Friesen, Uncovering the Mystery of MPD, 1991]
The idea that MPD is under-diagnosed is related to the notion that few
mental health professionals know how to make the diagnosis and because
the patients with MPD frequently cope with it through denial. This
argument is similar to the point of view of many alcohol treatment
specialists, who allege that alcoholism is frequently underdiagnosed
because professionals do not typically know how to correctly make the
diagnosis and because most alcoholics are in denial. [Noblitt &
Perskin, Cult and Ritual Abuse, 2000]
Two studies about the early lives of multiples came up with the same
percentages – 97% have been subjected to serious child abuse as
youngsters. Another study found that 88% has been abused sexually,
with 83% having been sexually penetrated as young children. [James
Friesen, Uncovering the Mystery of MPD, 1991]
The onset of multiple personality generally occurs in childhood,
although the condition is not usually diagnosed until adolescence or
early adulthood. The sex incidence is about 85% female…Although
multiple personality was thought to be quite rare, recently it has
been reported to be more common. [Philip Coons, Child Abuse and
Multiple Personality Disorder]
Multiple personality most often presents with depression and
suicidality rather than personality changes and amnesia which are
obvious clues to dissociation…The original personality is usually
amnesiac for the secondary personalities while the secondary
personalities may have varying awareness of one another…Generally the
original personality is rather reserved and depleted of affect. The
secondary personalities usually express affects or impulses
unacceptable to the primary personality such as anger, depression, or
sexuality…Headaches are extremely common as are hysterical conversion
symptoms and symptoms of sexual dysfunction. [Philip Coons, Child
Abuse and Multiple Personality Disorder]
Probably about 25% of children have a Dissociative Ability high enough
to use dissociation for relief from chronic sexual or physical abuse.
When these children grow up they develop MPD if they have been abused.
In comparison, SRA is so much more terrible a kind of abuse that it
causes dissociation in a much higher percentage of its victims, maybe
as high as 75% or even more. [James Friesen, Uncovering the Mystery of
MPD, 1991]
A history of trauma has been found to be an almost universal etiology
of such extreme chronic dissociative disorders as multiple personality
disorder. [D. Spiegal as quoted by David McCulley, Satanic Ritual
Abuse: A Question of Memory, 1993]
Abuse suffered by multiple personality patients tends to be far more
sadistic and bizarre than that suffered by most victims of child
abuse. [Frank Putnam, MD, Diagnosis and Treatment of MPD]
Accepted theory held that multiplicity developed reactively. Infants
or young children used their innate capacity and ingenuity to create a
cluster of "personalities" to cope with the conflicting demands of a
dangerous environment far too overwhelming for one little person.
Pamela Reagor and Steven Ray discovered solid psychological evidence
that besides the above "natural" features of MPD, certain patients
presented some additional critical characteristics. "We saw
sophisticated external implantation, by someone other than the
subject, of hundreds of complex personality fragments," Reagor noted,
in the 1991 sixth issue of Beyond Survival magazine. These external
implantations, including suicidal ones, were arranged in what appeared
to be a complex system. Ray suspected that the programming acted like
DNA, encoding specific dissociative patterns within the MPD system. It
was revolutionary - and sinister – concept. Reagor defined their
discovery as structured MPD as opposed to the commonly understood
reactive MPD. [Craig Lockwood, Other Altars, 1993]
There is a natural progression in the relationship among alters:
The alters learn about one another and learn to recognize one
another.
The alters learn to negotiate with one another, even if there is
mutual dislike.
The alters learn to cooperate with one another for the common good.
The alters appreciate and take care of one another.
The alters come to love one another and recognize that they are part
of one another.
The alters join forces. [C.W. Duncan, The Fractured Mirror, 1994]
Patients in this study who integrated personality states during
treatment became increasingly certain that their reports of ritual
abuse reflected actual memories. The patients who remained fragmented
were less inclined to be certain about what really happened.[Walter C.
Young, MD, "Patients Reporting RA in Childhood: A Clinical Syndrome,
Report of 37 Cases"]
BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER BPD is characterized by deeply
conflicted emotions, running the gamut from rage to terror, from
depressed apathy to turbulent agitation. Patients with BPD often
experience self-loathing that alternates and coexists with self-
absorption and narcissism. Their frequent acts of self-
destructiveness, including self-mutilation and suicide attempts,
bewilder and frighten their families, friends, and caregivers. These
individuals typically have deeply unsatisfying interpersonal
relationships and appear to alienate those who care for them, while at
the same time expressing fears that they will be abandoned. Patients
with this disorder often appear uncooperative in therapy and are
frequently accused of sabotaging their own treatment. The condition of
such patients is considered chronic with intermittent self-destructive
episodes. Curiously, these patients often respond in unusual or
unpredictable ways to psychiatric medications. [Noblitt & Perskin,
Cult and Ritual Abuse, 2000]
CHILDREN
In Europe , Great Britain is the country wherein most reports on SRA
of children are being made. The National Society for the Prevention of
Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) is alarmed about the increasing number of
cases coming to its attention. Towns and areas mentioned are Hull ,
Surrey , Wolverhampton , Telford , Portsmouth , Manchester , and
Shrewsbury , among others (Bartlett 1989; Tate 1991). Reports of SRA
are typically made by social workers involved in ordinary child abuse
cases or by foster parents of child victims of sexual and physical
abuse. Within the context of an enduring relationship with an adult
whom these children trust, they disclose information that, when
recognized as such, points to SRA. Typically, children's reports
include adults carrying candles, wearing robes and masks or dressing
up as clowns, and chanting; children being defecated on, forced to eat
body wastes, locked in cages or boxes, or sexually abused on crosses
or inside stars and circles; drinking blood; sacrificing animals;
torturing, killing, and consuming babies; being filmed by cameras with
lights on; using drugs; and adults threatening children in order to
discourage disclosure. Tate (1991), who examined a number of these
British cases and compared them to North American and Dutch cases
(Hudson 1991; Jonker and Jonker-Bakker 1991; Snow and Sorenson 1990),
was struck by the similarities. Because many of these children
reported SRA without attending adults encouraging them, Tate concluded
that either there exists a worldwide conspiracy among toddlers or the
children are speaking the truth. [Onno van der Hart, "Reports on
Ritual Abuse in European Countries: A Clinician’s Perspective," 1998]
It is very telling that in every case in which the symptomatology of
the ritually abused children was compared to the symptomatology of the
sexually abused children, the ritually abused children showed
considerably more symptoms of trauma…Not only do ritually abused
children appear more disturbed than sexually abused children on the
traditional instruments like the Achenbach, they also demonstrate
symptoms which relate in direct and obvious ways to the abuse
experiences they describe. [Catherine Gould, Cultural and Economic
Barriers to Protecting Children from Ritual Abuse and Mind Control,
1995] From these first few reported cases the symptoms characteristic
of childhood multiple personality begin to emerge and reveal some
marked differences when compared to adults. In the childhood form of
multiple personality the difference between personalities are quite
subtle. In addition the number of personalities is fewer. So far an
average of 4 (range 2-6) personalities have been reported in children,
while the average number of personalities reported in adults is about
13 (range 2 to 100+). Symptoms of depression and somatic complaints
are less common in children but the symptoms of amnesia and inner
voices are not decreased. Perhaps most importantly, the therapy of
children with multiple personality is usually brief and marked by
steady improvement. In adults therapy may last anywhere from 2 to over
10 years, while in children therapy may only last a few months.
[Philip Coons, Child Abuse and Multiple Personality Disorder]
PROGRAMMING
The term programming is sometimes used two ways…Most commonly, the
term refers to any coercive persuasion whether it is experienced in a
destructive, an established religion, the armed services, or any other
group or organization. A second usage for this term is…the
manipulation or traumatization of alter personalities, fragments or
dissociated mental states or entities for the purpose of mind control.
[Noblitt & Perskin, Cult and Ritual Abuse, 2000]
SRA SYMPTOMATOLOGY
Adult survivors I know alternately crave/refuse read meat and sauces.
36 adults (97%) presented survivor guilt, 35 (94%) described
Indoctrinated beliefs, 31 adults (83%) performed "bizarre self-abuse",
and 23 (62%) were involved in substance abuse. [James Quan, A
Consolidation of SRA and False Memory Data, 1996]
EVIDENCE
The definition of "evidence" used herein to support the existence of
ritual abuse is…The presence of the following multiple independent
indicators:
Disclosures with post-traumatic presentation,
Profound similarities between such disclosures in which the
similarities outweigh the normal occurrence of conflicting details,
Occult objects found at the scene consistent with such disclosures,
Structural or decorative details consistent with disclosures, but
unknowable outside the reported abuse scenarios, and/or
Victim descriptions of the video and/or still photography of abuse
scenarios…sometimes including a discovery of child pornography. [James
Quan, A Consolidation of SRA and False Memory Data, 1996]
If one wishes to criticize the arguments supporting the existence of
ritual abuse, then one must accurately identify them. These arguments
may be summarized as follows:
There is ample historical and anthropological evidence that ritual
abuse has occurred in a variety of cultures throughout history. Among
those groups where traumatizing rituals have reportedly been used,
there have also been some accounts of dissociation, amnesia, and
alterations of the individual’s identity.
In modern times, reports of ritual abuse have been made by people who
claim to be survivors of such abuse both in North America and in other
geographic locations…
Some perpetrators of ritual abuse and other criminal activity
associated with cults are self-confessed.
Other witnesses to cult criminal activity have come forward…
There have been convictions in criminal cases in response to
allegations of ritual abuse.
Civil cases won against individuals accused of ritual abuse.
Cases of ritual murder (e.g, at Matamoros ) are a matter of public
record.
The abusive acts of some cults (e.g., the People’s Temple of Guyana ,
Branch Davidians, Order of the Solar Temple , Aum Supreme Truth) are
publicly known.
The great majority of therapists who work with patients reporting
ritual abuse tend to believe that the allegations of ritual abuse are
true…
In a series of workshops and in group and individual professional
supervision conducted by Noblitt, the facilitator has publicly
demonstrated that many of these survivors respond to preprogrammed
cues with switching to alter personalities and trance responses. The
patients were not trained to respond to these cues in therapy, and
videotapes of patients who have never before seen Noblitt show them
responding to these cues (which are alleged by some patients to be
used in cult programming). [Noblitt & Perskin, Cult and Ritual Abuse,
2000]
HISTORY
The worship of Satan, as the symbol of the Judeo-Christian concept of
pure evil, appears to result from the First Century C.E. as a reaction
to Judeo-Christian spiritual domination. The practice of sexual and
sacrificial rites pre-dates that era, however, and eventually extended
to all geographical regions. [Gail Carr Feldman, "SRA: A chapter in
the History of Human Cruelty," Journal of Psychohistory, Winter 1995]
Further back in history yet are the results of a survey conducted by
Hill and Goodwin (1989) of pre-inquisition historical documents
describing Satanism and satanic practices. They compiled a list of 11
elements of satanic ritual: 1) secret nocturnal feasting around a
special table or altar; 2) ritual orgiastic sex involving incest,
homosexuality, and anal intercourse; 3) imitations and reversals of
the Christian mass; 4) ritual use of blood, semen, urine or excrement;
5) sacrifice of embryos and infants often using knives followed by
cooking in a cauldron and/or ritual cannibalism; 6) ritual use of
animals; 7) ritual use of torches, candles and darkness; 8) chanting,
especially of names of demons; 9) drinking a drug or potion; 10)
dancing backwards in a circle or other ritual use of the circle; and
11) dismemberment of corpses and extraction of the heart. [James Quan,
A Consolidation of SRA and False Memory Data, 1996]
Two things are clear from the cases cited. First satanic crimes are
being perpetrated in the U.S. , as well as in other countries. Second,
human sacrifice and cannibalism are still being practiced. As reports
of satanic ritual abuse continue to emerge, ten characteristic
reported abused have been described by Young et al. (19991) and Young
(1992): 1. Childhood sexual abuse, 2. Witnessing and receiving
physical abuse and torture, 3. Witnessing animal mutilations and
killings, 4. Death threats, 5. Forced drug usage, 6. Witnessing and
forced participation in human adult and infant sacrifice, 7. Forced
cannibalism, 8. Ceremonial "marriage" to Satan, 9. Being buried alive
in coffins or graves…and 10. Forced impregnation and sacrifice of own
child. [Gail Carr Feldman, "SRA: A chapter in the History of Human
Cruelty," Journal of Psychohistory, Winter 1995] In some area, there
has not been much need for secrecy. In our country, grown men in long
robes have murdered at night, often in the southern states, with
extraordinary impunity. And the Nazis, who often practiced Satanism,
according to the PBS documentary, "The Occult History of the Third
Reich," made a slaughterhouse out of their country earlier this
century. Cults in Jonestown and Waco , in the present day, demonstrate
that children are being subjected to religious horrors. Numerous
recent convictions of day care abuses with ritual allegations are
documented. This is not a small problem. Nor is it new behavior. [Anne
Hart, California Therapist]
Survivors today are disclosing that abuse occurs in groups that claim
to be Christian, Catholic, Moslem, Jewish, Masonic, Celtic, Druidic,
Nordic occult, Nazi, African- and Afro-Caribbean-based religions.
[Craig Lockwood, Other Altars, 1993] This dramatic rise in disclosures
must be examined within the context of the enormous shifts in the
cultural perceptions of child abuse and the broad acceptance of
counseling. [James Quan, A Consolidation of SRA and False Memory Data,
1996]
MIND CONTROL
Project Monarch could be best described as a form of structured
dissociation and occultic integration, in order to compartmentalize
the mind into multiple personalities within a systematic framework.
During this process, a Satanic ritual, usually including Cabalistic
mysticism, is performed with the purpose of attaching a particular
demon or group of demons to the corresponding alter (s). Of course,
most skeptics would view this as simply a means to enhance trauma
within the victim, negating any irrational belief that demonic
possession actually occurs. Another way of examining this convoluted
victimization of body and soul is by looking at it as a complex
computer program: A file (alter) is created through trauma, repetition
and reinforcement. In order to activate (trigger) the file, a specific
access code or password (cue or command) is required. The victim/
survivor is called a "slave" by the programmer/handler, who in turn is
perceived as "master" or "god." About 75% are female, since they
possess a higher tolerance for pain and tend to dissociate easier than
males. Subjects are used mainly for cover operations, prostitution and
pornography; involvement in the entertainment industry is notable… A
majority of the victims/survivors come from multi-generational Satanic
families (bloodlines) and are ostensibly programmed "to fill their
destiny as the chosen ones or chosen generations" (a term coined by
Mengele at Auschwitz ). Some are adopted out to families of similar
origin. Others used in this neurological nightmare are deemed
"expendable one" (non-bloodliners), usually coming from orphanages,
foster care homes, or incestuous families with a long history of
pedophilia. There also appears to be a pattern of family members
affiliated with government or military intelligence agencies. Many of
the abused come from families who use Catholicism, Mormonism, or
charismatic Christianity as a "front" for their abominable activities
(though members of other religious groups are also involved. Victims/
survivors generally respond more readily to a rigid religious
(dogmatic, legalistic) hierarchical structure because it parallels
their base programming. [Ron Patton, Project Monarch, Nazi Mind
Control, 1996]
MOTIVE
When we understand the fact that ritual abuse is usually perpetrated
by groups which are deeply involved in organized crime, the underlying
incentives of these cult/perpetrators groups becomes clear. While
ritual abuse is certainly an integral part of some kinds of satanism,
it is most likely that the deeper reason for the prevalence of ritual
abuse is that, simply put, it reliably creates a group of people who
function as unpaid slaves to the perpetrator group. [Catherine Gould,
Cultural and Economic Barriers to Protecting Children from Ritual
Abuse and Mind Control, 1995]
SYSTEM RESPONSE
Another interesting fact is the quite clear amount of disinformation.
Take Hamburg for example: the police reported zero cases, therapists
have 47 cases in treatment. The sexual crime unit of the police had
reported about 12 cases; as they told me in a personal conversation,
none of these cases made their official way to the commission. This is
not surprising for those working in the field of Ritual abuse.
[Thorsten Becker, "Ritual Abuse: A German Cult-Counsellors
Perspective," Presentation on the symposium on Psychic Trauma and
Dissociation, Utrecht [ Netherlands ], Oktober 28. 1999]
Kent Wills
<Gree...@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
>> > My name is Greg Hanson and I've got
>> > two 14 year old misdemeanor Domestic
>> > Violence convictions.
>>
>> For abusing his mentally ill wife.
>>
>> Not to forget that in 2001 you caused the police to remove your
>> girlfriend's seven year old daughter due to your inappropriate
>> behavior and you are listed on the Iowa State Child Abuse Registry.
>
>Dan himself was similarly listed on at least 5 occasions.
>Possibly 15 or more if they track unfounded/undetermined
>cases on their registry.
Each claim was unfounded with Dan.
Your presence on Iowa's Child Abuse Registry proves the
complaint(s) against you were valid.
Why did you force that little girl to take cold showers?
Why did you force her to stand outside in February with no coat,
shoes or sock to use as protection from the elements?
Why did you touch her genital area with your bare hands?
Why did you feel the need to ask about one of my friend's under
age daughter?
Why did you ask about one of my former students who was 11 or 12
years of age at the time?
Why did you get so excited about my under age daughter?
You can try to cloud the truth of your abuse of and sexual desires
for underage girls, but I, if no one else, will keep letting people
know.
>
>That registry is a matter of caseworker opinion, not a court.
However, one can go before the courts and get their name removed,
if it shouldn't have been added. What happened when you tried that?
Oh yeah. You just sat around whining about how you got caught.
>
>He's hoping you'll confuse it with the sex offender registry.
Only someone as stupid as you consistently prove yourself to be
would confuse the Child Abuse Registry with the Sex Offender Registry.
While your own posts prove you have a sexual interest in pre and
early pubescent girls, you've so far managed to stay off the SOR.
I'll presume it's because you've gone no further than touching Lisa's
daughter with your hand.
>
>Why do you suppose Dan didn't tell you that
>he was on the same kind of registry for
>at least 5 different investigations?
Because he's not been on one.
Every accusation was unfounded. Do you understand that?
jacq...@aol.com
> jaque wrote
>
> > My gosh, Mr--or is it Dr.?- Williams. I didn't realize you were an
> > credited expert. Or why would I quote you? I didn't address you
> > personally. Where do I find your quotes? Did you write a book? Or are
> > you just an expert n this list? What is your reason for such heated
> > involvement with this issue? I am not interested in a discussion about
> > what "you" said. Thanks
>
> He's Kent Bradley Wills DOB Jan 8, 1969
> of Little Rock, Arkansas.
> Convicted in Iowa (2005) for Garage Burglary
> His LOSING appeal argued that an attached
> garage is not part of a residence for the
> purpose of a "residential burglary" conviction.
>
> My name is Greg Hanson and I've got
> two 14 year old misdemeanor Domestic
> Violence convictions.
>
> Kent and I are in strong opposition most of the time.
>
> Not this time.
>
> Jaque, you posted 43 times, all in November?
> No posting for 20 MONTHS prior to that?
> All related to mind control and RSCA?
>
down. I post because it was my case and I feel all of us should speak
up about what really happened there. I went to court as often as I
could and contacted anyone who knew anything about child abuse to
hopefully answer the millions of questions we had. I have seen a few
others post but they are few and far between. I hope that by speaking
out I can encourage others to do the same.
> Are you Catholic, Jaque?
> How ABOUT that clergy sex scandal, eh?
> Ever heard of Haut De Guerrine?
>
No, not Catholic but met about 25 sign carrying protesters from "SNAP"
our first day in court. So I knew about that scandal in 1984. No, what
is Haut de Guerrine? Googled it-couldn't find anything.
> Wenatchee WA? Savage/Shakopee MN?
>
> In MN a caseworker told me "They're all guilty, we just can't prove
> it.".
>
> The reality was a crazy prosecutor projecting her
> own psychosis/experience onto the subject kids.
>
> Interestingly, I asked a caseworker at that time
> and she said "They're all guilty, we just can't prove it.".
>
> She broke many rules, like one that says
> she should not bribe kids with toys/teddy bears
> to tell the sordid stories she wanted to hear.
>
> The MN witch hunt there was brought to an end
> when a Sheriff refused to honor any more of her
> arrest warrants.
I met the prosecutor form Jordan once. I sort of watched the MN case
back then. It was a family thing, right? Unterwager and Wakefield came
out of that case. They not only have been discredited (Unspeakable
Acts) but are admitted pedophiles (Paedika). I can't say I "know" what
happened in other cases.
>
> BTW, I saw footage of parents digging at
> theMcMartinpreschool site, and even though
> highly motivated to find tunnels, they certainly
> did not find any evidence of any tunnels.
>
You saw footage...I was there. There were remnants of a tunnel
network. The project was cut short when the owner of the property sold
it. We spent almost a month there. The first dig was in 1985 by a
company hired by the D.A office. That crew was not allowed to go onto
the preschool property...just the side play lot owned by another
person (Goldstein). They dug down only a few inches and did not use
any radar devices on the soil. Their report is included in it's
entirety in the 1989 report. Both head archaeologists were in
agreement as to the 1989 findings.
> Tell me, Jaque, do you think we should
> direct public policy and courts based on
> your web of beliefs surrounding RSCA
> and ""mind control"" ?
>
I never said anything about "mindcontrol". I know nothing about
mindcontrol myself.
As far as RSCA (I don't know exactly what that stands for) I don't
have much to say about that either. The term Ritual Abuse was
introdiced to us by Larry Pazder in a parent meeting at my house. I
never liked the term and some of us called it Sadistic Sexual Abuse.
Never caught on. The media just ran with the idea of satanists. It
sold them a lot of papers. To my knowledge no one in our case was ever
proven to be a practicing satanist
A few therapists who worked with our kids insist there was a "ritual
aspect" to the abuse of our kids. I did hear the "satanic" type
stories but kids said there were always cameras present. That makes me
believe they were doing pornography. A few parents believed it was
some sort of satanism (in the Crowley sense I guess) I read a lot on
that subject, too, and did find some references to such things that
were being talked about but I personally never made that leap that the
mcmartins were satanists. It is complicated. I'll bet the source of
the charges against you are not simple, either. It was brave of you to
admit, knowing some may post attacks on you for it.
> Most of the time I am arguing not about the
> criminal child abuse witch hunts, but about
> the even LESS constitutional doings of
> the Juvenile courts, where caseworkers
> make up nightmares and fairy tales to
> justify the very real nightmares they bring
> upon innocent families every day.
>
There are some bad socialworkers, foster families, foster homes, all
that. Unfortunately people that want to prey on small children tend to
look for jobs where they can not only come in contact with them but be
an authority over them. And I know it is too easy for them to put
themselves in those positions. I hate that they take kids out of homes
so readily and put them in usually worse situations. I don't know the
answer of how to reform the justice system. Wish I did.
> Do you think we should run our legal
> process even MORE like a witch hunt?
Of course not.
> Should rumors, beliefs and hysteria rule the courts?
Nope.
> How would you honor the Constitution?
>
> Or would you?
Well, we parents worked hard to pass the law to allow closed circuit
testimony for severely abused children. It was said to be
unconstitutional,(the right to face your accuser) but it is now law.
200+ years ago no one imagined live closed circuit TV. the justice
system can't make it go away. Unfortunately some people just think you
need a guilty VERDICT before you can prove a crime was committed.
Maybe OJ and other such cases prove that wrong.
I wish I had an answer. I cringe to thing children and severely abused
people are abused again by the system. A psychiatrist friend of mine
used to tell me
Greegor
Before or after her BS collapsed?
Jacque > I sort of watched the MN case
Jacque > back then. It was a family thing, right?
They tore up many families.
The only convictions were of state actors
and one bonafide pedo turning "states evidence"
in exchange for immunity.
Jacque > Unterwager and Wakefield came out of that case.
Jacque > They not only have been discredited (Unspeakable
Jacque > Acts) but are admitted pedophiles (Paedika).
Got a reference on this?
What evidence do you have they were discredited?
Jacque > I can't say I "know" what
Jacque > happened in other cases.
Like you "know" about Underwager and Wakefield?
It seems you vilified them. Why?
Do you know who ended up prosecuted in the Jordan case?
> > BTW, I saw footage of parents digging at
> > theMcMartinpreschool site, and even though
> > highly motivated to find tunnels, they certainly
> > did not find any evidence of any tunnels.
> You saw footage...I was there. There were remnants of a tunnel
> network.
Not when the building was demolished.
Concrete floor and walls were intact and no patches
covered any tunnels.
> The project was cut short when the owner of the property sold
> it. We spent almost a month there.
Why would it take a month?
> The first dig was in 1985 by a
> company hired by the D.A office. That crew was not allowed to go onto
> the preschool property...just the side play lot owned by another
> person (Goldstein). They dug down only a few inches and did not use
> any radar devices on the soil. Their report is included in it's
> entirety in the 1989 report. Both head archaeologists were in
> agreement as to the 1989 findings.
Do you deny that you WANT TO BELIEVE it was true?
> > Tell me, Jaque, do you think we should
> > direct public policy and courts based on
> > your web of beliefs surrounding RSCA
> > and ""mind control"" ?
>
> I never said anything about "mindcontrol". I know nothing about
> mindcontrol myself.
I saw that you posted into a newsgroup with that subject.
> As far as RSCA (I don't know exactly what that stands for) I don't
> have much to say about that either. The term Ritual Abuse was
> introdiced to us by Larry Pazder in a parent meeting at my house. I
> never liked the term and some of us called it Sadistic Sexual Abuse.
> Never caught on. The media just ran with the idea of satanists. It
> sold them a lot of papers. To my knowledge no one in our case was ever
> proven to be a practicing satanist
> A few therapists who worked with our kids insist there was a "ritual
> aspect" to the abuse of our kids. I did hear the "satanic" type
> stories but kids said there were always cameras present. That makes me
> believe they were doing pornography. A few parents believed it was
> some sort of satanism (in the Crowley sense I guess) I read a lot on
> that subject, too, and did find some references to such things that
> were being talked about but I personally never made that leap that the
> mcmartins were satanists. It is complicated.
> I'll bet the source of
> the charges against you are not simple, either. It was brave of you to
> admit, knowing some may post attacks on you for it.
Early alzheimers vascular dementia nutcase accusations.
Not charges, Juvenile court BS.
Even worse than criminal court as far as I am concerned.
> > Most of the time I am arguing not about the
> > criminal child abuse witch hunts, but about
> > the even LESS constitutional doings of
> > the Juvenile courts, where caseworkers
> > make up nightmares and fairy tales to
> > justify the very real nightmares they bring
> > upon innocent families every day.
Jacque > There are some bad socialworkers,
Jacque > foster families, foster homes, all that.
More than some.
It's a corrupt subculture.
More of a threat to America than any terrorists or satanists.
Jacque > Unfortunately people that want to prey on
Jacque > small children tend to look for jobs where
Jacque > they can not only come in contact with
Jacque > them but be an authority over them. And I
Jacque > know it is too easy for them to put themselves
Jacque > in those positions. I hate that they take
Jacque > kids out of homes so readily and put them
Jacque > in usually worse situations. I don't know the
Jacque > answer of how to reform the justice system. Wish I did.
Yeah, One of the things that has gone horribly
wrong for the Child Protection INDUSTRY is
their ultraliberal gay friendliness which in many
cases turned out to be PEDERASTS.
There was a guy in Oregon who was a British citizen,
but they send him little boys for quite a while.
He moved to Monterey, California and Oregon
sent him little boys THERE! (Out of state??)
But they knew he was molesting little boys
and kept sending him new ones to indoctrinate.
> > Do you think we should run our legal
> > process even MORE like a witch hunt?
>
> Of course not.
>
> > Should rumors, beliefs and hysteria rule the courts?
>
> Nope.
>
> > How would you honor the Constitution?
>
> > Or would you?
>
> Well, we parents worked hard to pass the law to allow closed circuit
> testimony for severely abused children. It was said to be
> unconstitutional,(the right to face your accuser) but it is now law.
I've got bad news from your perspective, apparently.
The right to face accuser has prevailed again.
Good news from my perspective.
Jacque > 200+ years ago no one imagined live closed circuit TV. the
justice
Jacque > system can't make it go away. Unfortunately some people just
think you
Jacque > need a guilty VERDICT before you can prove a crime was
committed.
That is the promise of the Constitution.
In child protection cases they use a regional
"Child Protection Center" operating as an adjunct
to a hospital. Gynos are done on little girls
as a SCREENING effort.
Immediately after that session the
child is interrogated on video, regardless
of the results of the gyno.
The bad part is that the video interviewer
had no credentials, and had the door open
so the hostile caseworker could feed her questions.
They found nothing, but strongly urged the
mother to do what CPS says.
(Using pretend authority)
Then a caseworker tried a little deception
where she interviewed me at a police station
pretending something sexual had come
out of the interview.
Jacque > Maybe OJ and other such cases prove that wrong.
Or Mike Nifong and the Duke LaCross players?
> I wish I had an answer. I cringe to thing children and severely abused
> people are abused again by the system. A psychiatrist friend of mine
> used to tell me-
There is an even bigger problem with families tore up
without proof, based more on caseworker attitude
and outright LIES, than on truth.
Kid placed with accuser kin, ignoring accuser's mental illness.
Home Study coverup of accuser/cartakers 8+ year Prozac history.
Court and agency refused to check out mentally ill CARETAKER.
Agency listed her as caretaker FULL YEAR after she became vegetative,
Judge recused self for bias but later thought she could "unrecuse"
herself.
Transcript blatantly altered.
Not allowed to have the original tape, on an APPEAL. etc.
Hey, Jacque, have you read up on Dr. Roy Meadows
over in England? Medical license yanked but only
for a short time.
Crusading Doctor Professor Sir Roy Meadows?
Hard core criminal sex abuse cases might be
horrible but are rare compared to the Juvenile
court actions that tear up THOUSANDS of families
needlessly.
Kent Wills
Given that you can't even get it right when dealing with what
claim CA made, there's really no reason to believe anything else you
present. You ignore far too many details.
Heck, you see some sort of meaning to the case in my sig where I
make light of my being a vegetarian.
>I went to court as often as I
>could and contacted anyone who knew anything about child abuse to
>hopefully answer the millions of questions we had. I have seen a few
>others post but they are few and far between. I hope that by speaking
>out I can encourage others to do the same.
>
Speaking out about child abuse is important. However, when you
show that you have nothing credible to present, as you've done, the
cause suffers.
>> Are you Catholic, Jaque?
>> How ABOUT that clergy sex scandal, eh?
>> Ever heard of Haut De Guerrine?
>>
>No, not Catholic but met about 25 sign carrying protesters from "SNAP"
>our first day in court.
I would have expected those who claim to have survived being
abused by priests to be in your corner over this.
>So I knew about that scandal in 1984. No, what
>is Haut de Guerrine? Googled it-couldn't find anything.
It may be something Greg made up.
>
>
>> Wenatchee WA? Savage/Shakopee MN?
>>
>> In MN a caseworker told me "They're all guilty, we just can't prove
>> it.".
>>
>> The reality was a crazy prosecutor projecting her
>> own psychosis/experience onto the subject kids.
>>
>> Interestingly, I asked a caseworker at that time
>> and she said "They're all guilty, we just can't prove it.".
>>
>> She broke many rules, like one that says
>> she should not bribe kids with toys/teddy bears
>> to tell the sordid stories she wanted to hear.
>>
>> The MN witch hunt there was brought to an end
>> when a Sheriff refused to honor any more of her
>> arrest warrants.
>
>I met the prosecutor form Jordan once. I sort of watched the MN case
>back then. It was a family thing, right? Unterwager and Wakefield came
>out of that case. They not only have been discredited (Unspeakable
>Acts) but are admitted pedophiles (Paedika). I can't say I "know" what
>happened in other cases.
>
>>
>> BTW, I saw footage of parents digging at
>> theMcMartinpreschool site, and even though
>> highly motivated to find tunnels, they certainly
>> did not find any evidence of any tunnels.
>>
>
>You saw footage...I was there. There were remnants of a tunnel
>network.
Odd that people who deal with excavation all claimed there was no
indication of any tunnels of any sort.
>The project was cut short when the owner of the property sold
>it. We spent almost a month there. The first dig was in 1985 by a
>company hired by the D.A office. That crew was not allowed to go onto
>the preschool property...just the side play lot owned by another
>person (Goldstein). They dug down only a few inches and did not use
>any radar devices on the soil. Their report is included in it's
>entirety in the 1989 report. Both head archaeologists were in
>agreement as to the 1989 findings.
That there was no sign of any tunnels, right?
BTW, excavation of the school yard was done. It was determined
there were never any tunnels.
Some claimed the tunnels were back filled (without offering
anything to support the claims), which, of course, proved there were
tunnels there at one time.
>
>> Tell me, Jaque, do you think we should
>> direct public policy and courts based on
>> your web of beliefs surrounding RSCA
>> and ""mind control"" ?
>>
>
>I never said anything about "mindcontrol". I know nothing about
>mindcontrol myself.
>As far as RSCA (I don't know exactly what that stands for)
Ritualistic Satanic Child Abuse is my guess.
I've never known anyone, other than Greg, to use the term.
>I don't
>have much to say about that either. The term Ritual Abuse was
>introdiced to us by Larry Pazder in a parent meeting at my house. I
>never liked the term and some of us called it Sadistic Sexual Abuse.
Abuse isn't limited to sexual activities.
>Never caught on. The media just ran with the idea of satanists. It
>sold them a lot of papers. To my knowledge no one in our case was ever
>proven to be a practicing satanist
Yet the claim was that the tunnels lead to a Satanic room.
>A few therapists who worked with our kids insist there was a "ritual
>aspect" to the abuse of our kids. I did hear the "satanic" type
>stories but kids said there were always cameras present. That makes me
>believe they were doing pornography. A few parents believed it was
>some sort of satanism (in the Crowley sense I guess) I read a lot on
>that subject, too, and did find some references to such things that
>were being talked about but I personally never made that leap that the
>mcmartins were satanists.
Since the little evidence that was available was less than
credible, the idea that any Satanic influence would be just as
non-credible.
>It is complicated. I'll bet the source of
>the charges against you are not simple, either.
It's really simple. Greg's own posts show that he's attracted to
young girls, unless he was lying.
He abused Lisa's daughter in various ways, according to his own
posts. Yes, he could have been lying in each. Greg has a very
difficult time being honest. In a little over a year, I've seen an
honest comment from him once. And it was an accident on his part.
>It was brave of you to
>admit, knowing some may post attacks on you for it.
He wants to be attacked. A psychologist determined that Greg has
a psychological need to be seen as a victim, according to Greg. It's
quite possible he lied about what the psychologist determined.
>
>> Most of the time I am arguing not about the
>> criminal child abuse witch hunts, but about
>> the even LESS constitutional doings of
>> the Juvenile courts, where caseworkers
>> make up nightmares and fairy tales to
>> justify the very real nightmares they bring
>> upon innocent families every day.
>>
>
>There are some bad socialworkers, foster families, foster homes, all
>that.
You'll find good and bad in any classification of people.
>Unfortunately people that want to prey on small children tend to
>look for jobs where they can not only come in contact with them but be
>an authority over them.
Fortunately, Greg's name being on Iowa's Child Abuse Registry
means he can't get such a job.
>And I know it is too easy for them to put
>themselves in those positions. I hate that they take kids out of homes
>so readily and put them in usually worse situations. I don't know the
>answer of how to reform the justice system. Wish I did.
>
>
>> Do you think we should run our legal
>> process even MORE like a witch hunt?
>
>Of course not.
>
>> Should rumors, beliefs and hysteria rule the courts?
>
>Nope.
>
>> How would you honor the Constitution?
>>
>> Or would you?
>
>Well, we parents worked hard to pass the law to allow closed circuit
>testimony for severely abused children. It was said to be
>unconstitutional,(the right to face your accuser) but it is now law.
>200+ years ago no one imagined live closed circuit TV. the justice
>system can't make it go away. Unfortunately some people just think you
>need a guilty VERDICT before you can prove a crime was committed.
If that were the case, the justice system wouldn't work. One
needs to be able to prove a crime was committed in order to have a
trial.
>Maybe OJ and other such cases prove that wrong.
OJ was found not guilty. Legally he is innocent of the double
murders.
>I wish I had an answer. I cringe to thing children and severely abused
>people are abused again by the system. A psychiatrist friend of mine
>used to tell me
What?
childadvocate
proof of the existence of the tunnel is at the end
McMartin Preschool Revisited by Alex Constantine 1996
Welcome to Manhattan Beach
Paul Bynum graduated from college in 1972 and joined the Hermosa Beach
police department a year later. At 31 he was promoted to the rank of
chief detective. Bynum was not a traditional investigator. One fellow
detective often thought he was “too bright to be a cop.” Off duty, he
drove an MG and mixed with the ’60s survivors at the Sweetwater Café.
In 1976 Bynum was assigned the investigation of the Karen Klaas
murder. Klaas was the divorced wife of Bill Medley, a vocalist for the
Righteous Brothers. She was raped and murdered one morning about an
hour after dropping her five-year-old son off at the McMartin
preschool in Manhattan Beach.
Neighbors told police they’d been alarmed at the sight of a menacing
stranger before the murder wandering through the neighborhood. Police
later entertained speculation that Klaas had been stalked. Throughout
the week her body was found, this same stranger had popped up several
times on her corner. A neighbor phoned Karen to warn her. She didn’t
answer. When friends entered the back door of the house, concerned for
her safety, they found a Caucasian male with a beard, about 5′7″, 28
years old, dressed in a long olive green coat with a tunic collar and
boots. He was leaving through the front door. Klaas was found naked
and unconscious. She died five days later. Nothing was stolen. Police
had no indication that Klaas knew the man who assaulted her.
In 1984, shortly after indictments were handed to defendants in the
McMartin child molestation case, Gerald Klaas, her husband, drove off
a cliff in Oregon and was killed. Children alleged in a grand jury
hearing that teachers at the preschool had threatened to kill family
members if they talked about abuse, It was rumored around town that
the Klaas deaths and the McMartin case may have been related. But
police said no. “We have no leads, no suspects and we’re not
coordinating with Manhattan Beach,” Hermosa Beach Lt. Mike Lavin told
reporters.1
In 1979, Paul Bynum was forced out of the police department without an
explanation despite an unblemished record. After Bynum had wrapped up
an investigation of a series of murders of teenage girls in nearby
Redondo Beach, culminating in the arrest and conviction of serial
killers Roy Norris and Lawrence Bittaker, police chief Frank Beeson
pressured Bynum to take a stress leave. Bynum was haunted by the
serial murder investigation, but remained confident in his emotional
stability. He refused the leave. The chief obtained an order from the
city manager, and Bynum was forced out on an indefinite disability
leave. He chalked it up to internal politics, “paranoia.” “When the
papers reported that Beeson had shown up apparently drunk at his first
Hermosa council meeting and dropped his revolver on the floor,” Bynum
told reporter Kevin Cody, “he thought we had tipped reporters.” Beeson
was unaware that reporters routinely attended meetings of the city
council.2
Bynum set out on a new career as a private investigator. In March
1984, he was retained by the Buckeys’ defense attorney, Danny Davis,
and in the course of his investigation came to the conclusion that
children had been abused at the preschool. He found the video-taped
interviews of the children by child therapists “credible.” One
afternoon, Cody informed Bynum that hundreds of children had alleged
molestation took place at the preschool. Bynum was shocked. He
stammered he had no idea so many children were involved.
In 1986 he was called to testify at the trial of Ray Buckey by
prosecutor Lael Rubin. The morning he was to appear a juror’s home was
burglarized and Bynum’s testimony was rescheduled for the next
morning. “Neither side is going to like what I have to say,” he told
Cody. For one thing, there was the matter of Bynum’s lost citation
books, records he’d kept while a detective in Hermosa Beach. When the
police arrested Ray Buckey on molestation charges, the “lost” books
were discovered on the preschool attendant’s desk. What were official
police records doing in Buckey’s home? And Prosecutor Rubin had
intended to ask Bynum about a map turned up by DA investigators in
March 1986, pin-pointing the location of turtle shells Bynum had
unearthed at the lot next to the McMartin preschool. (The children
claimed teachers had killed turtles to demonstrate what would happen
to them and their families if they talked about the molestations.
Bynum, while retained by the defense, had managed to corroborate a key
point in the testimony of the children.)
Bynum’s court appearance was preempted by “suicide,” although the
timing left some parents in the case convinced he’d been murdered.3
His body was discovered by his wife at 5:45 in the morning. He died of
a head shot from a .38 caliber pistol. “None of the half dozen people
questioned who were close to Bynum could think of any reason why his
involvement in the case might have driven him to suicide,” reported
the Easy Reader in Manhattan Beach. “Paul was kind of a worrier,” said
Stephen Kay, a deputy district attorney and friend of the Bynum
family, “but there was no hint of suicide. He was very upbeat about
his wife and new daughter, both of whom he adored.”4
The belief that Bynum had been murdered was fueled by the memory of
another odd death, the alcohol toxicity that claimed the life of Judy
Johnson. She was the first mother to speak publicly about child
molestation at McMartin. and sympathizers of the Buckeys in the press
have gone to great lengths to portray Johnson as “crazy.” Her life was
inverted the day her son came home from the McMartin school, bleeding.
Strangers entered her life, intimidated her. She believed she’d been
poisoned. (In 1992, therapists at the L.A. Commission for Women’s
Ritual Abuse Task Force were also poisoned, and corroborated their
allegations with medical reports - the Los Angeles Times was given the
reports, but ignored them and alleged the therapists were paranoid
fantasists.5) She lived in fear, felt it necessary to keep a gun in
the house. Her estranged husband appeared to have joined in the
harassment campaign. She took to alcohol. She was allergic to alcohol.
It poisoned her.
The death of Judy Johnson was met with howls of laughter in greater
Los Angeles. She will be remembered as the delusional paranoiac who
set in motion a wave of “hysteria” carried through Southern California
by a sensational press and out across the plains, contaminating lives
and decimating families everywhere. A groundless witch-hunt. This was
the explanation doled out by “experts” from leading universities.
Nevertheless, children who attended the preschool still insist they
were abused. And the detailed memories of their parents are sharply at
odds with the simple caricature of the case repeated endlessly in the
press. They recall not suggestive questioning, but the long hours of
testimony by dozens of children, the telephoned death threats, how
some of the children suffered deep emotional problems requiring
hospitalization. Knowing child pornography to be a highly lucrative
business, they frown at the snickering over the childrens’ disclosures
that they were forced to play “naked movie-star” games. They haven’t
put aside as anomalous accident the first exhibit in the case, a
physician’s report that one of the children suffered “blunt force
trauma” of sexual areas.6 The parents were left to ponder why some of
the toddlers in the care of the McMartins had chlamydia, a sexually-
transmitted infection.7 Where was the humor in all of this?
Open Season
The parents wondered, like everyone else, at the incredibility of the
charges - some said the children were lying - yet they had to question
Peggy McMartin’s testimony that she only worked at the school for a
short time, when payroll records showed that she had been employed
there for years. To the families, the final verdict of Ray Buckey
meant it was now “open season on children.”
The world was told redundantly that ABC’s Wayne Satz, the reporter who
broke the case (killed by a heart attack in December, 1992 at age 47),
and Kee MacFarlane, a therapist testifying for the prosecution, had an
affair, as if this had any bearing on the allegations of the children.
Even Oliver Stone, perhaps in ignorance, took to the bandwagon with a
film made for HBO, written by Abby Mann, theorizing that hysteria in
Manhattan Beach was kindled when one child returned home from school
one afternoon with “a red bottom” - this would be the son of Judy
Johnson, and he hadn’t been spanked - he was bleeding from the anus.
This hardly constitutes media “spin.” It is conscious participation in
a felony. The account of the case pounded into collective memory by
media repetition goes that far to distort the facts. The widespread
media coverage was, according to Los Angeles Times editor Noel
Greenwood, “a mean-spirited campaign” organized to discredit the
children and their therapists.8 But why should certain members of the
corporate press, and segments of the legal and psychiatric
professions, go to such lengths to suppress evidence of organized
child abuse at McMartin?
The traumatic crimes reported by the toddlers bear an uncanny
resemblance to mind control programming, a specialty of certain
classified federal agencies and cult cut-outs on the black budget
payroll.8 The children are often ridiculed because some of their
charges are impossible. Tunnels under the preschool? Too ludicrous to
consider. But as it happens, there were tunnels, confirmed in 1993 by
a team of five scientists from leading universities.
The unearthing of the tunnels, like much of the critical evidence,
never made it to the courtroom. They have been discreetly excluded
from newspaper accounts. Filling the void, Debbie Nathan, a widely
published skeptic of ritual abuse, heaped ridicule on the tunnel
allegations in the Village Voice in June 1990. She maintained the
McMartin site had already been “painstakingly probed for tunnels. None
were found”9 Nathan’s account is a fabrication. In fact, recalls Dr.
Roland Summit, who contributed to the final report on the tunnel
excavation, parents started digging and prosecutors, reluctantly
forced to a showdown, “commissioned a superficial search of open
terrain.” District Attorney Ira Reiner then declared the tunnel
stories unfounded “without going under the concrete floor of the
preschool.”Once the tunnels were officially discounted, attempts to
explore for an underground reality were instant targets for
ridicule.”10 Archeologist Gary Stickel was retained to lead the
excavation on the re-commendation of Dr. Rainier Berger, chairman of
UCLA’s Interdisciplinary Archeology Program, by parents of McMartin
children.11 Initially Stickel sided with the Buckeys, believing the
abuse allegations to be so much moonlight for hysterics. However, he’d
heard of late homicide detective Paul Bynum, the first to dig at the
site: Bynum apparently conducted his informal digging in February,
1984 (Daily Breeze, 1987). It is significant to note he did unearth
some buried animal remains, “numerous pieces of tortoise shells and
bones” (Daily Breeze, 1987). “There was keen interest at the time
since it was reported that the children testified that tortoises,
rabbits, and other small animals were mutilated to terrorize the
children into keeping silent” (Daily Breeze, 1987).12
But “experts” courted by the press snaffled at the suggestion that
animals were killed to frighten children at McMartin and other
preschools around the country. It was not until 1993 that a study by
the National Center for Child Abuse and Neglect confirmed that
children are not only threatened in day care settings, “most threats
are very specific in terms of what the consequence of disclosure will
be and how the threat will be carried out…. The use of such severe
threats is obviously quite frightening to young children and is
effective in preventing disclosure. In fact, it appears that threats
used in day care center cases may go beyond what is usually needed to
silence victims, and may in some instances be made for purposes of
psychological terror in and of itself.”13
Into the Grotto
Most reporters in Southern California pooh-poohed evidence of
coercion, but there was a great, gaping silence when the tunnels were
found. “I asked my daughter,” recalls Jackie MacGauley, a mother of
two children who attended the preschool, “‘How could they have taken
you to these places without being seen?’ And she answered me as though
I was silly to ask such a question. She said, ‘Through the tunnels, of
course.’”
The Los Angeles Times ran a spate of features poking fun of the
excavation team until actual evidence of tunnels was discovered. Then
the Times ran a brief news item, one paragraph long, dryly noting that
“evidence” of tunnels had been found, and never mentioned the subject
again. The local Beach Reporter covered the story without a blush:
“parents began to dig with shovels, allegedly in an area pointed out
by a nine-year-old former student of the McMartin preschool, who told
them to dig behind a cement planter in the northeast corner. When
parents unearthed several broken turtle shells and a few bones, they
stopped digging and notified the district attorney’s office.”
Once the entrance was exposed, Stickel used remote sensing equipment
to read the terrain conductivity of the empty lot next to the
preschool. The survey was conducted by a respected geophysicist,
Robert Beer, working with an electromagnetic scanner. The tunnel
opening was found precisely where children said it would be. Stickel:
“Some of the children had stated there had been animal cages placed
along that wall and that they had entered a tunnel under the cages.” A
foreign soil deposit was found near the foundation. Clearing the
anomaly with a backhoe, they found the roots of an avocado tree cut to
clear a path for the tunnel. The roots had been cut with a hand saw
and torn away, and shreds dangled on either wall of the tunnel.
That’s the moment editors at the Times chose to pull reporters off the
story. All other news outlets rapidly followed suit. But the
excavators cleared the foreign soil and followed the tunnel anyway. It
“meandered under Classroom No. 4 and then most of Classroom No. 3….
There is no other scenario that fits all of the facts except that the
feature was indeed a tunnel,” they concluded. “The date of the
construction and use of the tunnel was not absolutely established, but
an assessment of seven factors of data all indicate that it was
probably constructed, used and completely filled back in sometime
after 1966 (the construction date of the preschool).”14
Dr. E. Michael, a specialist in forensic geology in Malibu, was called
to examine a cavity in the underground passage. Together with Dr.
Herbert Adams of the geology department at Cal State University, a
ground resistivity reading of the tunnel was followed from the
preschool to a triplex next door, a traversing section parallel to the
north wall of the school, 5 feet away, extending 20 feet eastward, 10
to 15 feet beneath the surface.15
Gerald Hobbs, a local tree surgeon for 25 years, did much of the
actual digging. Hobbs: The children had told two different stories
about this tunnel prior to the dig. One, that they had gone through
the tunnel and came up in the house next door, and two, they had come
up in the garage, which blocked the house from the street. At any
rate, the tunnel went in that direction…. That evening I went to the
house next door and followed the walk between the school and the
house, only about 41/2 feet apart. I went about 30 feet down between
the buildings and found a crawl space under the house. I bellied my
way toward the southwest corner of the house. After going about 20
feet, I found an area inside the west wall of the house where the
floor was cut out. If I remember correctly, the area of floor that was
missing was 36″ X 38″ X 41″.16
A total of 77 animal bones were found buried at the McMartin site, an
assortment of the osteo-remains of domestic cattle, chickens, dogs and
a single rabbit.17 However, Debbie Nathan, the hide-bound “skeptic” of
ritual abuse, a scion of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation, told
another story. The McMartin site, she insisted, had already been
“painstakingly probed for tunnels” by the D.A.’s office. (Not so, as
we’ve seen). “None were found. [The McMartin] parents have invested
years believing in demonic conspiracies and underground nursery
tunnels. (Until recently the parents were still digging. They came up
with Indian artifacts).” No mention of Bynum’s independent findings.
No mention of the dig as it happened in the real world. She reserves
much of her scorn for former FBI agent Ted Gunderson and Jackie
MacGauley. Nathan seems not to realize that Gunderson and MacGauley
brought in Stickel and his geological team to defuse accusations they
were directly engaged in the dig. They weren’t. The search for the
tunnels was independent, and scores of volunteers pitched in.
Nathan’s refrain of “no evidence” is hollow. She has been known to
contort around the facts of ritual abuse in a grotesque parody of
journalism and is frequently blind to critical evidence. Nathan
continues to find “no evidence” of abuse at McMartin despite the
nightmares, the acting-out, medical molestation reports and sexual
infections. The tunnel excavation, she assures with psychic certainty
(and a sniff of condescension), is a “hoax.”
To come to the point: Nathan’s propaganda, repeated in the New York
Times and a host of other corporate publications, happened to conceal
a classified mind control operation the CIA and Pentagon had
undertaken thirty years before….
End of Part One
——————————————————————————
- Notes -
1. Kevin Cody, “Former HB Officer’s Suicide Adds Questions to McMartin
Mystery,” Easy Reader (Manhattan Beach tabloid news weekly), November
17, 1987.
2. Ibid.
3. The Easy Reader obituary declares, “none of the half dozen people
questioned who were close to Bynum could think of any reason why his
involvement in the case might have driven him to commit suicide. But
the timing of Bynum’s death and the controversy already surrounding
the McMartin case … inevitably spawned speculation that a link existed
between his suicide and his pending testimony.”
4. Cody.
5. The medical reports were reprinted in Alex Contantine, Psychic
dictatorship in the U.S.A. Portland: Feral House, 1995, pp. 97-111.
6. McMartin trial record, evidentiary exhibit one.
7. Interviews with parents.
8. Alex Constantine, “Ray Buckey’s Press Corps and the Tunnels of Mc-
Martin,” pp. 77-96.
9. Debbie Nathan, “What McMartin Started: The Ritual Abuse Hoax,”
Village Voice, June 12, 1990.
10. Roland Summit, M.D., “Introduction,” Archeological Investigations
of the McMartin Preschool Site, Manhattan Beach, California,
unpublished report by archeologist Gary Stickel of the McMartin Tunnel
Project, 1993, p. ii.
11. Gary Stickel, foreword to Archeological Investigations.
12. Ibid.
13. Kelly, Brant and Waterman, “Sexual Abuse of Children in Day Care
Centers,” Journal of Child Abuse & Neglect (17), 1993, p. 74
14. Stickel, Archeological Investigations, p. 95. The assessment of
the tunnel’s age was corroborated by Dr. Jon Michael, a geologist on
the McMartin project.
15. Dr. E. Michael, in a letter to Dr. Gary Stickel, July 2, 1992, pp.
2-3.
16. Gerald Hobbs, “Notes on Investigation of the Neighboring Tri-
plex,”in Archeological Investigations,” p. 176.
17. Charles Schwartz, Ph.D., “The McMartin Preschool Osteological
Remains” (2nd report), Archeological Investigations, June 15, 1990, p.
1.
Kent Wills
<smar...@aol.com> wrote:
>http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/mcmartin-preschool-case-what-really-happened-and-the-coverup/
>
>proof of the existence of the tunnel is at the end
>
[...]
>
>Nathan’s refrain of “no evidence” is hollow. She has been known to
>contort around the facts of ritual abuse in a grotesque parody of
>journalism and is frequently blind to critical evidence. Nathan
>continues to find “no evidence” of abuse at McMartin despite the
>nightmares, the acting-out, medical molestation reports and sexual
>infections. The tunnel excavation, she assures with psychic certainty
>(and a sniff of condescension), is a “hoax.”
>
>To come to the point: Nathan’s propaganda, repeated in the New York
>Times and a host of other corporate publications, happened to conceal
>a classified mind control operation the CIA and Pentagon had
>undertaken thirty years before….
>
>End of Part One
I see no proof.
Did you hope that people would not bother reading and just presume
the proof you claim appears at the end is there?
--
When cryptography is outlawed,
bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
>
Kent Wills
<Gree...@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
>> I'll bet the source of
>> the charges against you are not simple, either. It was brave of you to
>> admit, knowing some may post attacks on you for it.
>
>Early alzheimers vascular dementia nutcase accusations.
So your neighbor suffered it as well, huh? Seems EVERYONE who
witnessed the abuse you inflicted on Lisa's little girl had that
disease.
>Not charges, Juvenile court BS.
>Even worse than criminal court as far as I am concerned.
>
You would know. You have two CRIMINAL convictions because of
your violence against females.
>
>> > Most of the time I am arguing not about the
>> > criminal child abuse witch hunts, but about
>> > the even LESS constitutional doings of
>> > the Juvenile courts, where caseworkers
>> > make up nightmares and fairy tales to
>> > justify the very real nightmares they bring
>> > upon innocent families every day.
>
>Jacque > There are some bad socialworkers,
>Jacque > foster families, foster homes, all that.
>
>More than some.
>It's a corrupt subculture.
>More of a threat to America than any terrorists or satanists.
Yet you've never been able to offer even one cite to support such
a claim.
>
>Jacque > Unfortunately people that want to prey on
>Jacque > small children tend to look for jobs where
>Jacque > they can not only come in contact with
>Jacque > them but be an authority over them. And I
>Jacque > know it is too easy for them to put themselves
>Jacque > in those positions. I hate that they take
>Jacque > kids out of homes so readily and put them
>Jacque > in usually worse situations. I don't know the
>Jacque > answer of how to reform the justice system. Wish I did.
>
>Yeah, One of the things that has gone horribly
>wrong for the Child Protection INDUSTRY is
>their ultraliberal gay friendliness which in many
>cases turned out to be PEDERASTS.
>
>There was a guy in Oregon who was a British citizen,
>but they send him little boys for quite a while.
>He moved to Monterey, California and Oregon
>sent him little boys THERE! (Out of state??)
>But they knew he was molesting little boys
>and kept sending him new ones to indoctrinate.
Please offer a cite for this, unless it's another of your many
lies.
>
>> > Do you think we should run our legal
>> > process even MORE like a witch hunt?
>>
>> Of course not.
>>
>> > Should rumors, beliefs and hysteria rule the courts?
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>> > How would you honor the Constitution?
>>
>> > Or would you?
>>
>> Well, we parents worked hard to pass the law to allow closed circuit
>> testimony for severely abused children. It was said to be
>> unconstitutional,(the right to face your accuser) but it is now law.
>
>I've got bad news from your perspective, apparently.
>The right to face accuser has prevailed again.
>Good news from my perspective.
And you found yourself listed on Iowa's Child Abuse Registry.
That's good news for under-age girls.
>
>Jacque > 200+ years ago no one imagined live closed circuit TV. the
>justice
>Jacque > system can't make it go away. Unfortunately some people just
>think you
>Jacque > need a guilty VERDICT before you can prove a crime was
>committed.
>
>That is the promise of the Constitution.
Once again you offer proof that you are ANTI-American.
Nowhere in the Constitution does it promise that there must be a
guilty verdict before there is proof that a crime was committed.
Why do you hate the U.S. Constitution so much?
>
>In child protection cases they use a regional
>"Child Protection Center" operating as an adjunct
>to a hospital. Gynos are done on little girls
>as a SCREENING effort.
ONLY if there is probable cause to believe the child was sexually
molested.
>
>Immediately after that session the
>child is interrogated on video, regardless
>of the results of the gyno.
Results take more than a few seconds, Greg.
>
>The bad part is that the video interviewer
>had no credentials, and had the door open
>so the hostile caseworker could feed her questions.
The good part is they saw that you had a sexual attraction to
Lisa's daughter.
>
>They found nothing, but strongly urged the
>mother to do what CPS says.
>(Using pretend authority)
According to you, DHS is a law enforcement agency. Yes, I know
you were lying in a pathetic attempt to sell a different lie, but you
did make the claim.
>
>Then a caseworker tried a little deception
>where she interviewed me at a police station
>pretending something sexual had come
>out of the interview.
You hung out in the bathroom while the little girl was showering.
You placed your hand on her genital area.
You admitted to these sexual acts, unless you were lying.
>
>Jacque > Maybe OJ and other such cases prove that wrong.
>
>Or Mike Nifong and the Duke LaCross players?
>
>> I wish I had an answer. I cringe to thing children and severely abused
>> people are abused again by the system. A psychiatrist friend of mine
>> used to tell me-
>
>There is an even bigger problem with families tore up
>without proof, based more on caseworker attitude
>and outright LIES, than on truth.
Fortunately that doesn't apply in your case.
>
>Kid placed with accuser kin, ignoring accuser's mental illness.
Which was never diagnosed outside of your seriously damaged mind.
>
>Home Study coverup of accuser/cartakers 8+ year Prozac history.
>
Again, only within your mind as was proved when you couldn't offer
anything to support the claim.
>Court and agency refused to check out mentally ill CARETAKER.
They checked you out. Unless you LIED, the psychologist stated
you have a NEED to be seen as a victim.
>
>Agency listed her as caretaker FULL YEAR after she became vegetative,
>
>Judge recused self for bias but later thought she could "unrecuse"
>herself.
Even though you weren't charged?
Outside of your continued proof that your drug usage caused
serious damage to your mind, you couldn't have been tried without
being charged.
Or is this in regards to one of your two convictions for beating
your mentally ill (she couldn't control her actions) ex-wife?
>
>Transcript blatantly altered.
Everyone is in on the conspiracy!
>Not allowed to have the original tape, on an APPEAL. etc.
>
>Hey, Jacque, have you read up on Dr. Roy Meadows
>over in England? Medical license yanked but only
>for a short time.
>
>Crusading Doctor Professor Sir Roy Meadows?
>
>Hard core criminal sex abuse cases might be
>horrible
Might be? Only might be, huh?
You really are a sick person.
>but are rare compared to the Juvenile
>court actions that tear up THOUSANDS of families
>needlessly.
You make such claims, yet have been UNABLE to offer anything to
support, let alone prove, the claims.
jacq...@aol.com
OK, no more humor here.
You ignore details and present detailds that never happened because ou
rely on FMSF literature only to present your case.
>
> >I went to court as often as I
> >could and contacted anyone who knew anything about child abuse to
> >hopefully answer the millions of questions we had. I have seen a few
> >others post but they are few and far between. I hope that by speaking
> >out I can encourage others to do the same.
> >
>
> Speaking out about child abuse is important. However, when you
> show that you have nothing credible to present, as you've done, the
> cause suffers.
...and what you have to say helps to protect children???
>
> >> Are you Catholic, Jaque?
> >> How ABOUT that clergy sex scandal, eh?
> >> Ever heard of Haut De Guerrine?
> >>
> >No, not Catholic but met about 25 sign carrying protesters from "SNAP"
> >our first day in court.
>
> I would have expected those who claim to have survived being
> abused by priests to be in your corner over this.
I don't know. Haven't been in contact with them.
No, that there were remnents of a network of tunnels that were filled
in. Fill dirt did not match natural surrounding dirt.
> BTW, excavation of the school yard was done. It was determined
> there were never any tunnels.
No, as I said...no tunnels in the school yard. They were under the
foundation of the building.
> Some claimed the tunnels were back filled (without offering
> anything to support the claims), which, of course, proved there were
> tunnels there at one time.
>
> >
> >> Tell me, Jaque, do you think we should
> >> direct public policy and courts based on
> >> your web of beliefs surrounding RSCA
> >> and ""mind control"" ?
> >>
> >
> >I never said anything about "mindcontrol". I know nothing about
> >mindcontrol myself.
> >As far as RSCA (I don't know exactly what that stands for)
>
> Ritualistic Satanic Child Abuse is my guess.
> I've never known anyone, other than Greg, to use the term.
>
> >I don't
> >have much to say about that either. The term Ritual Abuse was
> >introdiced to us by Larry Pazder in a parent meeting at my house. I
> >never liked the term and some of us called it Sadistic Sexual Abuse.
>
> Abuse isn't limited to sexual activities.
>
> >Never caught on. The media just ran with the idea of satanists. It
> >sold them a lot of papers. To my knowledge no one in our case was ever
> >proven to be a practicing satanist
>
> Yet the claim was that the tunnels lead to a Satanic room.
No-we didn't ever clain that-where exactly did you hear that?
>
> >A few therapists who worked with our kids insist there was a "ritual
> >aspect" to the abuse of our kids. I did hear the "satanic" type
> >stories but kids said there were always cameras present. That makes me
> >believe they were doing pornography. A few parents believed it was
> >some sort of satanism (in the Crowley sense I guess) I read a lot on
> >that subject, too, and did find some references to such things that
> >were being talked about but I personally never made that leap that the
> >mcmartins were satanists.
>
> Since the little evidence that was available was less than
> credible, the idea that any Satanic influence would be just as
> non-credible.
There was enough evidence to pass the Grand Jury and file charges to
go to trial.
> >It is complicated. I'll bet the source of
> >the charges against you are not simple, either.
>
> It's really simple. Greg's own posts show that he's attracted to
> young girls, unless he was lying.
> He abused Lisa's daughter in various ways, according to his own
> posts. Yes, he could have been lying in each. Greg has a very
> difficult time being honest. In a little over a year, I've seen an
> honest comment from him once. And it was an accident on his part.
>
> >It was brave of you to
> >admit, knowing some may post attacks on you for it.
>
> He wants to be attacked. A psychologist determined that Greg has
> a psychological need to be seen as a victim, according to Greg. It's
> quite possible he lied about what the psychologist determined.
>
> >
Yikes!
> >> Most of the time I am arguing not about the
> >> criminal child abuse witch hunts, but about
> >> the even LESS constitutional doings of
> >> the Juvenile courts, where caseworkers
> >> make up nightmares and fairy tales to
> >> justify the very real nightmares they bring
> >> upon innocent families every day.
> >>
> >
> >There are some bad socialworkers, foster families, foster homes, all
> >that.
>
> You'll find good and bad in any classification of people.
Yes.
>
> >Unfortunately people that want to prey on small children tend to
> >look for jobs where they can not only come in contact with them but be
> >an authority over them.
>
> Fortunately, Greg's name being on Iowa's Child Abuse Registry
> means he can't get such a job.
>
Sometimes those registrys are overlooked. Glad we have them now.
> >And I know it is too easy for them to put
> >themselves in those positions. I hate that they take kids out of homes
> >so readily and put them in usually worse situations. I don't know the
> >answer of how to reform the justice system. Wish I did.
> >
> >
> >> Do you think we should run our legal
> >> process even MORE like a witch hunt?
> >
> >Of course not.
> >
> >> Should rumors, beliefs and hysteria rule the courts?
> >
> >Nope.
> >
> >> How would you honor the Constitution?
> >>
> >> Or would you?
> >
> >Well, we parents worked hard to pass the law to allow closed circuit
> >testimony for severely abused children. It was said to be
> >unconstitutional,(the right to face your accuser) but it is now law.
> >200+ years ago no one imagined live closed circuit TV. the justice
> >system can't make it go away. Unfortunately some people just think you
> >need a guilty VERDICT before you can prove a crime was committed.
>
> If that were the case, the justice system wouldn't work. One
> needs to be able to prove a crime was committed in order to have a
> trial.
Hmmmm, I think the purpose of a trial is to try and proove a crime was
committed.....
>
> >Maybe OJ and other such cases prove that wrong.
>
> OJ was found not guilty. Legally he is innocent of the double
> murders.
True, double jeopardy.
>
> >I wish I had an answer. I cringe to thing children and severely abused
> >people are abused again by the system. A psychiatrist friend of mine
> >used to tell me
>
> What?
sorry-my typing skills are not great.
he used to tell me that the justice system was not the answer..
The case was so muddied by the time the pretrial was over we didn't
have much hope of winning. Most of the parents would not allow their
children to testify. It wasn't worth the abuse by the system.
krp
"Greegor" <Gree...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2f10bca5-088e-4565...@k19g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
> Jacque > I met the prosecutor form Jordan once.
>
> Before or after her BS collapsed?
Before or after she was tghrown out of office?
> Jacque > I sort of watched the MN case
> Jacque > back then. It was a family thing, right?
> They tore up many families.
> The only convictions were of state actors
> and one bonafide pedo turning "states evidence"
> in exchange for immunity.
> Jacque > Unterwager and Wakefield came out of that case.
> Jacque > They not only have been discredited (Unspeakable
> Jacque > Acts) but are admitted pedophiles (Paedika).
BULLSHIT. What a despicable LIE.
> Got a reference on this?
> What evidence do you have they were discredited?
> Jacque > I can't say I "know" what
> Jacque > happened in other cases.
> Like you "know" about Underwager and Wakefield?
> It seems you vilified them. Why?
> Do you know who ended up prosecuted in the Jordan case?
>> > BTW, I saw footage of parents digging at
>> > theMcMartinpreschool site, and even though
>> > highly motivated to find tunnels, they certainly
>> > did not find any evidence of any tunnels.
>> You saw footage...I was there. There were remnants of a tunnel
>> network.
Yes there were such claims, ALL discredited.
> Not when the building was demolished.
> Concrete floor and walls were intact and no patches
> covered any tunnels.
>> The project was cut short when the owner of the property sold
>> it. We spent almost a month there.
> Why would it take a month?
The area was/is GEOLOGICALY unsuited to tunnels.
>> The first dig was in 1985 by a
>> company hired by the D.A office. That crew was not allowed to go onto
>> the preschool property...just the side play lot owned by another
>> person (Goldstein). They dug down only a few inches and did not use
>> any radar devices on the soil. Their report is included in it's
>> entirety in the 1989 report. Both head archaeologists were in
>> agreement as to the 1989 findings.
> Do you deny that you WANT TO BELIEVE it was true?
The problem is that the McMartin case imploded because it was based on
BULLSHIT. The videotapes done by Kee MacFarlane of CII interviewing the
children showed the sinister process used to coach and mind poison the kids.
What was laughable was when the kids identified the then governor of
California, the President, the Pope and CLARK KENT as among their molesters.
But STILL the fanatic TRUE BELIEVERS cling to the ideas of there being a
huge conspiracy.
What was MOST sad was the accusations against Peggy Anne Buckey who was a
grad student at Berkeley and who had not been back to southern California
for years. FACTS were not allowed to get in Lael Rubin's way. Maybe I should
note that several assistant DA's QUIT over the way Rubin handled the case
and went public. NEVER allow the TRUTH to deter a good hysterical rant.
Underwager DID do an interview with Paedika (a pedophile publication)
but their quotes were not entirely accurate. Underwager NEVER was a
pedophile or a sympathizer of pedophiles. What he DID say was that they
should admit it and GET HELP.
krp
<jacq...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:691bcb5c-1893-4f0f...@k24g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> >> > My gosh, Mr--or is it Dr.?- Williams. I didn't realize you were an
> >> > credited ?expert. Or why would I quote you? I didn't address you
< OK, no more humor here.You ignore details and present detailds that never
happened because ou
< rely on FMSF literature only to present your case.
You apparently don't like any material the FMSF quotes. Most of which
has been done by prominent researchers at major Universities such as Dr.
Stepohen Ceci at Cornell. To somebody like YOU anyone whoi disagrees with
your position MUST be a pedophile.
> >I went to court as often as I could and contacted anyone who knew
> >anything about child abuse to
> >hopefully answer the millions of questions we had. I have seen a few
> >others post but they are few and far between. I hope that by speaking
> >out I can encourage others to do the same.
> Speaking out about child abuse is important. However, when you
> show that you have nothing credible to present, as you've done, the
> cause suffers.
< ...and what you have to say helps to protect children???
How about protecting the TRUTH?
> >> Wenatchee WA? ? Savage/Shakopee MN?
> >> In MN a caseworker told me "They're all guilty, we just can't prove
> >> it.".
How CONVIIIIIIIIENNNNNNT!
> >> The reality was a crazy prosecutor ?projecting her
> >> own psychosis/experience onto the subject kids.
> >> Interestingly, I asked a caseworker at that time
> >> and she said "They're all guilty, we just can't prove it.".
IBID.
> >> She broke many rules, like one that says
> >> she should not bribe kids with toys/teddy bears
> >> to tell the sordid stories she wanted to hear.
> >> The MN witch hunt there was brought to an end
> >> when a Sheriff refused to honor any more of her
> >> arrest warrants.
>
> >I met the prosecutor form Jordan once. I sort of watched the MN case
> >back then. It was a family thing, right? Unterwager and Wakefield came
> >out of that case. They not only have been discredited (Unspeakable
> >Acts) but are admitted pedophiles (Paedika). I can't say I "know" what
> >happened in other cases.
BULLSHIT.
> That there was no sign of any tunnels, right?
< No, that there were remnents of a network of tunnels that were filled
< in. Fill dirt did not match natural surrounding dirt.
That was a claim that was DISCREDITED.
> BTW, excavation of the school yard was done. It was determined
> there were never any tunnels.
< No, as I said...no tunnels in the school yard. They were under the
foundation of the building.
NOPE discredited.
> >A few therapists who worked with our kids insist there was a "ritual
> >aspect" to the abuse of our kids. I did hear the "satanic" type
> >stories but kids said there were always cameras present. That makes me
> >believe they were doing pornography. A few parents believed it was
> >some sort of satanism (in the Crowley sense I guess) I read a lot on
> >that subject, too, and did find some references to such things that
> >were being talked about but I personally never made that leap that the
> >mcmartins were satanists.
>
> Since the little evidence that was available was less than
> credible, the idea that any Satanic influence would be just as
> non-credible.
< There was enough evidence to pass the Grand Jury and file charges to go to
trial.
You can indict a ham sandwhich.
> He wants to be attacked. A psychologist determined that Greg has
> a psychological need to be seen as a victim, according to Greg. It's
> quite possible he lied about what the psychologist determined.
< Yikes!
You take the word of a convicted felon grarage burglar?
< Hmmmm, I think the purpose of a trial is to try and proove a crime was
committed.....
No, it is to prove WHO committed the crime.
krp
"childadvocate" <smar...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8eb88847-c12c-47d6...@w1g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/mcmartin-preschool-case-what-really-happened-and-the-coverup/
proof of the existence of the tunnel is at the end
SO DISCREDITED.
Greegor
CA > and Pentagon had undertaken thirty years before¡.
Jacque: With bedfellows like this, why would
you need opponents?
Greegor
Why would delusional crap about events you imagine help kids?
Witch hunt cases HURT kids and their families.
> > >> Are you Catholic, Jaque?
> > >> How ABOUT that clergy sex scandal, eh?
> > >> Ever heard of Haut De Guerrine?
>
> > >No, not Catholic but met about 25 sign carrying protesters from "SNAP"
> > >our first day in court.
>
> > I would have expected those who claim to have survived being
> > abused by priests to be in your corner over this.
>
> I don't know. Haven't been in contact with them.
Have you ever noticed that Ritual Child Abuse (Jacque)
is often lumped in with SATANIC Child Abuse, Mind Control
and CIA MIND CONTROL PROGRAMS?
But Jacque, WHO lumps them together? The BELIEVERS THEMSELVES!
Jacque > So I knew about that scandal in 1984. No, what
Jacque > is Haut de Guerrine? Googled it-couldn't find anything.
KW > It may be something Greg made up.
Nah. It's easy to spell the French name of a British orphanage wrong,
That's the one where they found parts of many remains.
Staff abuse and murder go back more than 40 years,
(Child savers!)
Kent is at war with me. Can you tell?
>
> > >It was brave of you to
> > >admit, knowing some may post attacks on you for it.
>
> > He wants to be attacked. A psychologist determined that Greg has
> > a psychological need to be seen as a victim, according to Greg. It's
> > quite possible he lied about what the psychologist determined.
>
> Yikes!
Kent lies constantly. No psychologist determined any such thing.
An attached garage is not part of a residence, he argued.
>
> > >> Most of the time I am arguing not about the
> > >> criminal child abuse witch hunts, but about
> > >> the even LESS constitutional doings of
> > >> the Juvenile courts, where caseworkers
> > >> make up nightmares and fairy tales to
> > >> justify the very real nightmares they bring
> > >> upon innocent families every day.
>
> > >There are some bad socialworkers, foster families, foster homes, all
> > >that.
>
> > You'll find good and bad in any classification of people.
>
> Yes.
>
>
>
> > >Unfortunately people that want to prey on small children tend to
> > >look for jobs where they can not only come in contact with them but be
> > >an authority over them.
>
> > Fortunately, Greg's name being on Iowa's Child Abuse Registry
> > means he can't get such a job.
>
> Sometimes those registrys are overlooked. Glad we have them now.
Which registry are you talking about?
The CPS registry is an extended witch hunt, worthless.
Several states have had to THROW THEM OUT.
They were unconstitutional clap trap.
Done completely without any court.
I am not on any sex offendere registry.
Those are based on CRIMINAL prosecutions, by a court.
> > >And I know it is too easy for them to put
> > >themselves in those positions. I hate that they take kids out of homes
> > >so readily and put them in usually worse situations. I don't know the
> > >answer of how to reform the justice system. Wish I did.
>
> > >> Do you think we should run our legal
> > >> process even MORE like a witch hunt?
>
> > >Of course not.
But you're happy for the CPS registry that is exactly that?
And you're talking about the witness side!
How fair do you think it is to the falsely accused?
Caseworkers LIE their tails off and almost never get perjury charges.
The system protects their own, even as they do horrible wrong.
We experienced a thing where the GAL said stuff
that supposedly came from the therapist, but
then we got a therapist report which said
that issue had NOT been examined at all.
The state actors LIE constantly, and even when
they get caught perverting justice they keep going!
State prosecutors won't prosecute state actors.
I personally cross examined some caseworkers
on the witness stand, and two of them went
pink and red in the face when they got
caught at blatant lies, under oath.
But the Judge was not outraged in the least.
> > "My family's case is for Neglect, but we are treated
> > in virtually every regard as child abusers, marked on
> > the Child Abuse registry, for example."
> > -- Gregory Scott Hanson, inmate 1104135, wife and child abuser.
> > Message-ID: <35120b16.0401111639.6825f...@posting.google.com>