** Saddam Capture Changes Exactly ZERO in Iraq ! **
** Vox Dei ©
Janes Defense Weekly
Although the capture of ousted Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein has provided a
welcome political boost for the Bush administration, few intelligence
professionals believe that the fallen president had been playing an active role
in directing continuing attacks against Coalition troops and foreign diplomats
in Iraq. Then there is the prospect of a public trial during which the USA's
past policies in the region may come under unwelcome scrutiny. JID assesses
whether this particular prize was worth taking alive.
Although he may have been captured 'like a rat in a hole', the more appropriate
analogy for Saddam's capture is that of the proverbial 'can of worms'. At first
glance, the capture of the fugitive former president was a great moment for the
US-led Coalition. While lesser henchmen had been detained or handed themselves
in in the months following the invasion, the number-one target had managed to
elude capture for so long - despite Washington's offer of an enormous bounty -
that senior members of the US military had started falling back on such clichés
as the hunt was "like looking for a needle in a haystack". The fact that this
particular needle was worth a cool US$25m made the Coalition's failure to get
their man all the more embarrassing.
However, despite the carefully choreographed announcement by US civilian
administrator Paul Bremer of the fallen dictator's discovery in a concealed
cellar close to his home town of Tikrit, there are some leading figures within
the Bush administration who would have preferred Saddam to have gone down
fighting to the death in the same way as his sons Uday and Qusay did in late
July. A dead dictator would have dispensed with the need for a public trial -
the prospect of which is deeply troubling for some within the Bush
administration.
Few are naïve enough to believe that international politics is anything but a
dirty business that may require co-operation with repressive and sordid regimes.
However, putting Saddam on trial for crimes committed throughout his long term
of office is likely to invite the defence to raise a whole raft of awkward
questions about the West's role - and particularly that of the USA - in bringing
Saddam to power in the Iraqi coup d'etat of 1968 and in sustaining him, often
covertly, during the Iran-Iraq war of 1981-1988.
As the ongoing trial of former Yugoslav president Slobodan Milosevic is
demonstrating, judicial proceedings in the full glare of international publicity
can prove extremely taxing for Western politicians and generals who have had
past dealings with fallen regimes. And the Milosevic circus is very far from
being concluded.
435 of 932 words
Kevin
Challiss McDonough
Baghdad
01 Jan 2004, 16:34 UTC
A car bomb exploded outside a Baghdad restaurant on New Year's Eve, killing
at least eight Iraqi civilians. It is just one of a string of attacks that
have killed far more Iraqis than coalition troops. The civilian death toll
is starting to turn Iraqi public opinion against the anti-coalition
insurgency.
Six months ago, most of the insurgent attacks in Iraq targeted coalition
troops. At that time, most of the casualties were American soldiers, who at
one point were being killed at a rate of more than one a day.
Iraqi civilians, fed up with the U.S.-led occupation, called them resistance
attacks. Even if they did not actually support the insurgency, many people
here sympathized with the attackers.
Some, like 45-year-old Mohammed Ahmed Jasim, still do. He says the
occupation forces claim that these are terrorists. Maybe there are some
terrorists, he says, but most of them are national resistance fighters.
But in recent months, the insurgents have changed their tactics. Massive car
bombs exploded outside the U.N. building and the International Red Cross, as
well as embassies and Iraqi police stations. Hotels housing western
journalists have been bombed, or attacked with rockets and mortars.
The U.S. military says attacks specifically targeting Iraqi civilians have
increased from one or two a day to three or four. Those attacks have gotten
deadlier, and as the civilian death toll rises, so does public anger toward
the insurgents.
A man living near the bombed restaurant, who gave his name only as Saef,
expressed his anger over the deliberate targeting of civilians.
"We, too, we are surprised," he said. "All the Iraqi people are surprised.
Why they do something like this? Why? They killing Iraqi people. Why they do
something like this? Why?"
At the same time, attacks against coalition troops are now just as likely,
if not more so, to kill Iraqi bystanders as they are to hurt the soldiers,
who wear body armor and travel in armored vehicles.
More and more Iraqi civilians now use the word terrorist to describe the
attacks, not resistance.
Earlier this week, a roadside bomb aimed at a U.S. military convoy killed
two Iraqi children and an American soldier in the Baghdad neighborhood of
Karrada. Two days after that, another roadside bomb in the same neighborhood
again killed and wounded Iraqi civilians, but no Americans.
On the streets of Karrada after the second bombing, Abbas Mahmoud said the
insurgents have crossed the line. He said, no Americans have been hurt. This
is not resistance. The resistance should not attack poor, innocent people,
or kill his Iraqi brothers. He says if they want to fight the Americans, let
them do it face to face.
The U.S. military would probably prefer that, too. American troops with
their high-tech gear are generally considered much better at open combat
than they are at anti-insurgency operations.
The commander of U.S. troops in Baghdad, Brigadier General Martin Dempsey of
the First Armored Division, says the roadside bombs are part psychological
weapon, designed to demoralize and cause confusion.
"To people like me, it seems to be anathema to the way we would choose to
fight a war ourselves, because it is also indiscriminate," he said. ". So,
it is truly a weapon of terror. Why have they chosen a weapon of terror? I
do not know the answer to that. Unfortunate, isn't it? I will tell you what
it does to my soldiers, it makes them all the more eager to find them [the
insurgents]." Military leaders and the Iraqi police believe there may
actually be two insurgencies operating side by side in Iraq, with different
methods and only vaguely similar goals. They think a lot of the attacks
against U.S. troops and coalition targets, such as the roadside bombs in
Karrada, are largely being carried out by remnants of Saddam Hussein's
regime or other Iraqi insurgents.
But they think suicide bombings like the New Year's Eve restaurant attack,
are probably the work of foreign fighters, possibly linked to al-Qaida or
other international terrorist organizations.
But both kinds of attacks are increasingly having the same deadly impact on
Iraqi civilians. And the rising death toll is gradually eroding the
insurgents' support among the Iraqi people.
Military officials and Iraqi police commanders say they are getting an
increasing number of tips from Iraqi civilians about the location of
possible roadside bombs, as well as the whereabouts of the anti-coalition
fighters. They think cooperation with coalition forces is increasing partly
because people are just tired of violence, and partly because they no longer
believe Saddam Hussein will return to power, now that he is in coalition
custody.
"** Vox Dei ©" <v...@dei.rex> wrote in message
news:QCqJb.651$6%5.5...@news.uswest.net...
Bernardz
> Saddam - the can of worms
>
> Janes Defense Weekly
>
> Although the capture of ousted Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein has provided a
> welcome political boost for the Bush administration, few intelligence
> professionals believe that the fallen president had been playing an active role
> in directing continuing attacks against Coalition troops and foreign diplomats
> in Iraq.
Well the documents that were captured with him show that he did play an
active role. Then there have been his recordings.
> Then there is the prospect of a public trial during which the USA's
> past policies in the region may come under unwelcome scrutiny.
Why?
--
Democracy is more important then justice.
26th saying of Bernard
Free Palestine Information Agency
>
> Rising Iraqi Civilian Death Toll Dampens Public Opinion Toward Insurgency
> Challiss McDonough
> Baghdad
> 01 Jan 2004, 16:34 UTC
>
> A car bomb exploded outside a Baghdad restaurant on New Year's Eve, killing
> at least eight Iraqi civilians. It is just one of a string of attacks that
> have killed far more Iraqis than coalition troops. The civilian death toll
> is starting to turn Iraqi public opinion against the anti-coalition
> insurgency.
> Six months ago, most of the insurgent attacks in Iraq targeted coalition
> troops. At that time, most of the casualties were American soldiers, who at
> one point were being killed at a rate of more than one a day.
LOL, they still do, foo.
>
> Iraqi civilians, fed up with the U.S.-led occupation, called them resistance
> attacks. Even if they did not actually support the insurgency, many people
> here sympathized with the attackers.
>
> Some, like 45-year-old Mohammed Ahmed Jasim, still do. He says the
> occupation forces claim that these are terrorists. Maybe there are some
> terrorists, he says, but most of them are national resistance fighters.
>
> But in recent months, the insurgents have changed their tactics.
SOME insurgents did.
Massive car
> bombs exploded outside the U.N. building
Mostly foreigners.
and the International Red Cross,
These were actually criticized by many resistance groups. It is only
the Saddam loyalists doing that.
as
> well as embassies
Possibly supported by lot of the population I would imagine. How many
Iraqis work in these Embassies?
and Iraqi police stations.
Lot more controversial. They are hardly civilians anyway.
Hotels housing western
> journalists have been bombed, or attacked with rockets and mortars.
I would imagine many Iraqis would say that Iraqis should not go to those
hotels. How many Iraqis are in these hotels anyway? They are full of
Westerners.
>
> The U.S. military says attacks specifically targeting Iraqi civilians have
> increased from one or two a day to three or four.
Idiots. It is probably that many in Abu Gharaib alone.
Those attacks have gotten
> deadlier, and as the civilian death toll rises, so does public anger toward
> the insurgents.
>
> A man living near the bombed restaurant, who gave his name only as Saef,
> expressed his anger over the deliberate targeting of civilians.
You must understand that this neighborhood consists of very wealthy
Iraqi comprador class businesspeople, and most of them are pro-US.
Which is why the restaurant was attacked.
>
> "We, too, we are surprised," he said. "All the Iraqi people are surprised.
> Why they do something like this? Why? They killing Iraqi people. Why they do
> something like this? Why?"
Because you live in a neighborhood full of traitors.
>
> At the same time, attacks against coalition troops are now just as likely,
> if not more so, to kill Iraqi bystanders as they are to hurt the soldiers,
> who wear body armor and travel in armored vehicles.
>
> More and more Iraqi civilians now use the word terrorist to describe the
> attacks, not resistance.
LOL, see how many people say that in Samarra, Tikrit, Rawah,
Fallujah.......
>
> Earlier this week, a roadside bomb aimed at a U.S. military convoy killed
> two Iraqi children and an American soldier in the Baghdad neighborhood of
> Karrada. Two days after that, another roadside bomb in the same neighborhood
> again killed and wounded Iraqi civilians, but no Americans.
Hey, it's a war. Stay away from US soldiers! The rebels have warned
you a million times.
>
> On the streets of Karrada after the second bombing, Abbas Mahmoud said the
> insurgents have crossed the line.
Karrada = largely traitor neighborhood.
He said, no Americans have been hurt. This
> is not resistance. The resistance should not attack poor, innocent people,
> or kill his Iraqi brothers. He says if they want to fight the Americans, let
> them do it face to face.
>
> The U.S. military would probably prefer that, too. American troops with
> their high-tech gear are generally considered much better at open combat
> than they are at anti-insurgency operations.
>
> The commander of U.S. troops in Baghdad, Brigadier General Martin Dempsey of
> the First Armored Division, says the roadside bombs are part psychological
> weapon, designed to demoralize and cause confusion.
>
> "To people like me, it seems to be anathema to the way we would choose to
> fight a war ourselves, because it is also indiscriminate," he said.
LOL, you stupid lying war criminal turd. You don't fight that way
because with high-tech weapons, you don't need to, idiot. Roadside
bombs are for those who have no F-16's.
". So,
> it is truly a weapon of terror. Why have they chosen a weapon of terror? I
> do not know the answer to that. Unfortunate, isn't it? I will tell you what
> it does to my soldiers, it makes them all the more eager to find them [the
> insurgents]."
Stupit foos. Roadside bomb is not a weapon of terror at all, and it is
hardly indiscriminate. True, there is collateral damage.
Military leaders and the Iraqi police believe there may
> actually be two insurgencies operating side by side in Iraq, with different
> methods and only vaguely similar goals.
There are more than that.
They think a lot of the attacks
> against U.S. troops and coalition targets, such as the roadside bombs in
> Karrada, are largely being carried out by remnants of Saddam Hussein's
> regime or other Iraqi insurgents.
>
> But they think suicide bombings like the New Year's Eve restaurant attack,
> are probably the work of foreign fighters, possibly linked to al-Qaida or
> other international terrorist organizations.
Well, maybe foreign fighters plus Saddam loyalists.
>
> But both kinds of attacks are increasingly having the same deadly impact on
> Iraqi civilians.
It's called WAR.
And the rising death toll is gradually eroding the
> insurgents' support among the Iraqi people.
I doubt it. My word from inside Iraq is that support for the
insurgency, and the insurgency itself, grows by the day.
>
> Military officials and Iraqi police commanders say they are getting an
> increasing number of tips from Iraqi civilians about the location of
> possible roadside bombs, as well as the whereabouts of the anti-coalition
> fighters.
Hmmmmm, guess these traitors have not gotten the message yet. Message =
you spy for the enemy, you DIE. Got it, traitors.
How long has this mysterious "increase in tips" been going on anyway? I
have been reading about this for 6 months now.
They think cooperation with coalition forces is increasing partly
> because people are just tired of violence,
I doubt if it is increasing. Anyway, if it is, so is support the
insurgency. ;)
and partly because they no longer
> believe Saddam Hussein will return to power,
A factor which is leading to a dramatic growth in the insurgency itself,
especially the Islamists.
Bernardz
> Hotels housing western
> > journalists have been bombed, or attacked with rockets and mortars.
>
> I would imagine many Iraqis would say that Iraqis should not go to those
> hotels. How many Iraqis are in these hotels anyway? They are full of
> Westerners.
>
A lie. More Iraqis are killed then Western in those hotel bombings.
--
It took me a day to figure out how to make a web site. Since then it has
taken me weeks and I still have not figured out what I want to put in
it.
27th observation of Bernard
Free Palestine Information Agency
>
> In article <3FF66A3D...@internet.con>, FP...@internet.con says...
> > Hotels housing western
> > > journalists have been bombed, or attacked with rockets and mortars.
> >
> > I would imagine many Iraqis would say that Iraqis should not go to those
> > hotels. How many Iraqis are in these hotels anyway? They are full of
> > Westerners.
> >>
> A lie. More Iraqis are killed then Western in those hotel bombings.
>
anyone, the others just left mostly wounded. That would be the
attempted bombing of the Baghdad (CIA and Mossad) Hotel. Re: the Iraqi
civilians who were killed in that attack, my comment would be the same
as a Palestinian woman in Iraq:
"Well, they should not have been working at the CIA Hotel."
Nuff said.
There is a war on. Civilians are collateral damage. Get used to it.
Jez
"Free Palestine Information Agency" <FP...@internet.con> wrote in message
news:3FF80EDB...@internet.con...
> Bernardz wrote:
> >
> > In article <3FF66A3D...@internet.con>, FP...@internet.con says...
> "Well, they should not have been working at the CIA Hotel."
>
> Nuff said.
>
> There is a war on. Civilians are collateral damage. Get used to it.
Killing civilians is a war-crime.
--
Ho hum
Jez
"Few of us can easily surrender our belief that
society must somehow make sense. The thought
that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so
many innocent people is intolerable. And so the
evidence has to be internally denied."
- Arthur Miller
Jay T. Beatty
"Jez" <iced_...@AwaySPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:3ff9c0e5$0$11175$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
>
> "Free Palestine Information Agency" <FP...@internet.con> wrote in message
> news:3FF80EDB...@internet.con...
> > Bernardz wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <3FF66A3D...@internet.con>, FP...@internet.con says...
>
> > "Well, they should not have been working at the CIA Hotel."
> >
> > Nuff said.
> >
> > There is a war on. Civilians are collateral damage. Get used to it.
>
> Killing civilians is a war-crime.
>
Make sure you tell you terrorist buddies in Baghdad that too, they have a
hard time not killing innocents.
Free Palestine Information Agency
>
> "Free Palestine Information Agency" <FP...@internet.con> wrote in message
> news:3FF80EDB...@internet.con...
> > Bernardz wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <3FF66A3D...@internet.con>, FP...@internet.con says...
>
> > "Well, they should not have been working at the CIA Hotel."
> >
> > Nuff said.
> >
> > There is a war on. Civilians are collateral damage. Get used to it.
>
> Killing civilians is a war-crime.
>
I am not sure suicide-bombing the CIA Hotel is a war crime.
Iskandar Baharuddin
"Jez" <iced_...@AwaySPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:3ff9c0e5$0$11175$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
>
> news:3FF80EDB...@internet.con...
> > Bernardz wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <3FF66A3D...@internet.con>, FP...@internet.con says...
>
> > "Well, they should not have been working at the CIA Hotel."
> >
> > Nuff said.
> >
> > There is a war on. Civilians are collateral damage. Get used to it.
>
> Killing civilians is a war-crime.
The deliberate targeting of civilians is a war crime.
Izzy
Free Palestine Information Agency
>
> "Jez" <iced_...@AwaySPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
> news:3ff9c0e5$0$11175$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
> >
> > "Free Palestine Information Agency" <FP...@internet.con> wrote in message
> > news:3FF80EDB...@internet.con...
> > > Bernardz wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article <3FF66A3D...@internet.con>, FP...@internet.con says...
> >
> > > "Well, they should not have been working at the CIA Hotel."
> > >
> > > Nuff said.
> > >
> > > There is a war on. Civilians are collateral damage. Get used to it.
> >
> > Killing civilians is a war-crime.
> >>
> Make sure you tell you terrorist buddies in Baghdad that too, they have a
> hard time not killing innocents.
>
that are killing a lot of civilians are being heavily criticized by
other factions.
Greg Hennessy
<bren...@mcpc.net.au> wrote:
>> > There is a war on. Civilians are collateral damage. Get used to it.
>>
>> Killing civilians is a war-crime.
>
>The deliberate targeting of civilians is a war crime.
>
>Izzy
>
Which will go in one ear and out the other.
Our friend Jez here is not the brightest spanner in the box.
greg
--
You do a lot less thundering in the pulpit against the Harlot
after she marches right down the aisle and kicks you in the nuts.
=> Vox Populi ©
Hiroshima ... Nagasaki ...Dresden ...
>
> Izzy
--
"Naturally, the common people don't want war;
neither in Russia nor in England nor in America,
nor for that matter in Germany.
That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders
of the country who determine the policy and
it is always a simple matter to drag the people
along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist
dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist
dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can
always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them
they are being attacked and denounce the
pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing
the country to danger. It works the same way
in any country."
- Hermann Goering, Nazi Reichsmarshall
Iskandar Baharuddin
"=> Vox Populi ©" <v...@popu.li> wrote in message
news:dU1Mb.103$NR6....@news.uswest.net...
> Iskandar Baharuddin wrote:
> > "Jez" <iced_...@AwaySPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
> > news:3ff9c0e5$0$11175$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
> >>
> >> "Free Palestine Information Agency" <FP...@internet.con> wrote in
> >> message news:3FF80EDB...@internet.con...
> >>> Bernardz wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> In article <3FF66A3D...@internet.con>, FP...@internet.con
> >>>> says...
> >>
> >>> "Well, they should not have been working at the CIA Hotel."
> >>>
> >>> Nuff said.
> >>>
> >>> There is a war on. Civilians are collateral damage. Get used to
> >>> it.
> >>
> >> Killing civilians is a war-crime.
> >
> > The deliberate targeting of civilians is a war crime.
>
> Hiroshima ... Nagasaki ...Dresden ...
>
London, Coventry....
What is your point?
That war is not nice?
Perhaps you are unable to see the distinction between bombing a city
containing a rail hub, armaments factories, oil refineries etc, and setting
off a bomb on a bus.
I can.
Izzy
Phoenix Rising
>"Free Palestine Information Agency" <FP...@internet.con> wrote in message
>news:3FF80EDB...@internet.con...
>
>
>>Bernardz wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <3FF66A3D...@internet.con>, FP...@internet.con says...
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>"Well, they should not have been working at the CIA Hotel."
>>
>>Nuff said.
>>
>>There is a war on. Civilians are collateral damage. Get used to it.
>>
>>
>
>Killing civilians is a war-crime.
>
>
IV Geneva (1949) Art. 28: "The presence of a protected person [a
civilian] may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from
military operations."
Admittedly, this is supposed to apply unequivocally both ways but
instead generally gets perverted and politicized both ways, but the fact
remains that the laws of war recognize the inevitability of collateral
damage.
--Phoenix Rising
Ken Smith
> "=> Vox Populi Š" <v...@popu.li> wrote in message
If I recall my history correctly, Dresden had virtually no military
value. If anything could be said about Hiroshima and Nagasaki,
it is that nuclear ordnance was far too indiscriminate -- it would
be like carpet-bombing Baghdad. All three could be said to be
"war crimes," at least as we define them in the relative luxury of
the 21st century.
Every city has "economic value," and throughout the history of
war, economic targets have been valid ones. The problem with
so-called "popular insurgencies" is that they don't have the laser-
guided missiles and stealth bombers they need to conduct con-
ventional warfare and as such, have to resort to crude methods
and less-fortified targets. The 'object' of war is and always has
been to win, and they don't have the luxury of debating the finer
points of martial ethics. As Sun-Tzu teaches, the relative strength
of the combatants dictates tactics, and guerilla warfare is the only
available option for a side so thoroughly outmatched. (Of course,
Sun-Tzu never mentioned guerilla warfare because it wasn't even
practical then; this is Mao's practical application of it.)
The object of the Iraqi insurgency is to make the place totally
ungovernable. It was obvious that Saddam had this in mind all
along, and any competent military strategist would have known
it going in. And they're doing a bang-up job of it....
War is not nice, and not healthy for the planet in general, but
unless we can find an alternative for settling disputes, it is what
we have to [if you will pardon the expression] look forward to.
Gentlemen, how do you propose to deal with the problem of
the hopeless mismatch?
Iskandar Baharuddin
"Ken Smith" <Rang...@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:40013D98...@concentric.net...
> Iskandar Baharuddin wrote:
>
> > "=> Vox Populi ©" <v...@popu.li> wrote in message
Are you not aware that more Japanese were killed in the fire bombing of
Tokyo than in either of the two atomic blasts?
>
> Every city has "economic value," and throughout the history of
> war, economic targets have been valid ones. The problem with
> so-called "popular insurgencies" is that they don't have the laser-
> guided missiles and stealth bombers they need to conduct con-
> ventional warfare and as such, have to resort to crude methods
> and less-fortified targets. The 'object' of war is and always has
> been to win, and they don't have the luxury of debating the finer
> points of martial ethics. As Sun-Tzu teaches, the relative strength
> of the combatants dictates tactics, and guerilla warfare is the only
> available option for a side so thoroughly outmatched. (Of course,
> Sun-Tzu never mentioned guerilla warfare because it wasn't even
> practical then; this is Mao's practical application of it.)
>
> The object of the Iraqi insurgency is to make the place totally
> ungovernable. It was obvious that Saddam had this in mind all
> along, and any competent military strategist would have known
> it going in. And they're doing a bang-up job of it....
A punner is the lowest form of human.
>
> War is not nice, and not healthy for the planet in general, but
> unless we can find an alternative for settling disputes, it is what
> we have to [if you will pardon the expression] look forward to.
> Gentlemen, how do you propose to deal with the problem of
> the hopeless mismatch?
>
The bad guys give up?
Izzy
Matt A.00 01 is Matthew Ackerman
> Iskandar Baharuddin wrote:
>
Mismaths check Ken's doctored header.
From: Ken Smith <Rang...@concentric.net>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups:
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,us.politics
Subject: Re: Baghdad Hotel attacks
References: <QCqJb.651$6%5.5...@news.uswest.net>
<q96dnYjSm4L...@comcast.com> <3FF66A3D...@internet.con>
<67b0b4f047248a20...@news.teranews.com>
<3FF80EDB...@internet.con>
<3ff9c0e5$0$11175$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com>
<3ff9ea86$1...@news.highway1.com.au> <dU1Mb.103$NR6....@news.uswest.net>
<4000ba56$1...@news.highway1.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lines: 71
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:11:39 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.234.181.211
X-Complaints-To: ab...@earthlink.net
X-Trace: newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net 1073823099 67.234.181.211 (Sun, 11
Jan 2004 04:11:39 PST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 04:11:39 PST
Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net
Note a conentric message id (can be forged and accepted by servers if they
do not check.
and hte fields put in only by the Network Server called X-Trace and
X-Complaints to.
That shows he is trying to forge his headers. Now what kind of person feels
like he needs to tod that?
Frauds, liars, slanderers, what? I am not saying what Ken is just
questioning why his header is a mismatched set of fields that cannot be
explained other than an attempt was made to hide tracks by forging the
header.
--
MattA
mailto:mat...@comcast.net?subject=HepatitusC-Objectives
Matt's Hep-C Story web pages are back at a home. No more drop down ads
to get in your way. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/matta00
Truth about Howard Aubrey AKA madyan67:
http://www.geocities.com/lord_haha_libeler/
Ken Smith
Any person who doesn't want to receive unwanted e-mail from
people who are just dying to tell me the amazing things little Suzy
has been doing with farm animals. :)
I just left an expired e-mail address in my browser for the bots
to harvest. Required no effort! And guess what? I haven't had
a single one ooze into my box in the past three months!
What a "scandal," eh, Matt?
Ken Smith
Bombing was pretty indiscriminate in those days. You did what
you had to do to win, which is how war has always been fought.
> > Every city has "economic value," and throughout the history of
> > war, economic targets have been valid ones. The problem with
> > so-called "popular insurgencies" is that they don't have the laser-
> > guided missiles and stealth bombers they need to conduct con-
> > ventional warfare and as such, have to resort to crude methods
> > and less-fortified targets. The 'object' of war is and always has
> > been to win, and they don't have the luxury of debating the finer
> > points of martial ethics. As Sun-Tzu teaches, the relative strength
> > of the combatants dictates tactics, and guerilla warfare is the only
> > available option for a side so thoroughly outmatched. (Of course,
> > Sun-Tzu never mentioned guerilla warfare because it wasn't even
> > practical then; this is Mao's practical application of it.)
> >
> > The object of the Iraqi insurgency is to make the place totally
> > ungovernable. It was obvious that Saddam had this in mind all
> > along, and any competent military strategist would have known
> > it going in. And they're doing a bang-up job of it....
>
> A punner is the lowest form of human.
Lower than even lawyers and televangelists? :)
> > War is not nice, and not healthy for the planet in general, but
> > unless we can find an alternative for settling disputes, it is what
> > we have to [if you will pardon the expression] look forward to.
> > Gentlemen, how do you propose to deal with the problem of
> > the hopeless mismatch?
> >
> The bad guys give up?
But sometimes, the bad guys are the good guys. More often
than not, I am afraid.
I'm not trying to address question this in regard to specific facts
but rather, in the abstract sense. What *do* you do to win back
your country from a ruthless invader, if you are outclassed? What
is permissible, and what is not? Afghanistan in the 1980s comes
to mind.
Iskandar Baharuddin
> Iskandar Baharuddin wrote:
>
> > "Ken Smith" <Rang...@concentric.net> wrote in message
> > news:40013D98...@concentric.net...
> > > Iskandar Baharuddin wrote:
permissible, such as blowing up school buses.
Izzy
E. Barry Bruyea
wrote:
The '48 war between Israel & the Arab states was a 'hopeless'
mismatch, but history tells us who was the victor, or, at least, who
was the loser. The unfettered operations of Germany's Luftwaffe
against England, (at least in numbers and manpower) was another
'hopeless' mismatch, but again, the 'power' failed to achieve its
goal.
Matt A.00 01 is Matthew Ackerman
Funny I do nothing at all to hide my identity. I do run sort of a
proxiserver (software) that actively deletes most spam. I would say from
checking the trace log I ran from it. That it and the fire wall catches 99%
of it at minum and I never see them. OE and all mail readers have a feature
called fitlers or rules I test them out diverting mail to a folder called
"Spam" When I am sure it is doing its thing and not unexpected deleations I
modify it to delete the messages insead.
Basically if you are not known to my rules or the subject is not known to
them (after the spam check or sorting mail to folders [move to folder]) and
simply keep rule (only action is to stop executing rules then leaves it in
the invbox) you do not get your emails to me. Some people here know they
are welcome to email me. I make it easy for them to use repy to sender or
put me in the CC: field. Then there is the last rule executed if nothing
else matches the email. moves it fo folder unknown. Unknowns get added to
keep or set as SPAM then when the rule seems to be working I change it to
delete.
Man all the faking out people to not see an email, must really keep you
bussy when someone figures out yuor real account eventually esp. if yout IP
is static (Broad band and the like need that)
--
MattA
mailto:mat...@comcast.net?subject=HepatitusC-Objectives
Matt's Hep-C Story web pages are back at a home. No more drop down ads
to get in your way. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/matta00
Truth about Howard Aubrey AKA madyan67:
http://www.geocities.com/lord_haha_libeler/
Truth about Dennis C. the liar... and dishonorably discharged marine.
(xxdenisco2 at yahoo dot com)
http://www.geocities.com/dennis_addict01/
Dennis does not know the truth. He has Hep-C and is dying from it in a
jail cell at the moment. No not my doing but his. He got busted trying to
buy his fix of Heroin. Which he still is using even with a liver that is
almost entirely gone now. I am told that is more harmefull to the liver
than drinking was. He is also infected with HEP-C 1A and 1B (two different
strains of the virus which tells doctors usually such got it a diffenent
times and from blood from different poeple. 1B is the one common to the
West Europe area, and the 1A is most common in the US and Canada. Dennis
was never inoculate with the marines that went to Vietnam by the air gun
which means his injections was with syringes and disposable needles. The
miltitary used to use premeasured disposable syringes to admininster that to
soldeirs as they were inducted. Special innoculations was only given using
the air gun with the same needle to everyone just prior to departure. The
main one was made with a live yellow fever virus and only given to those
heading for SE asia.
He did not get it that way he used IV drugs and shared needles with other
addicts. Why becuase thas what an IV Drug addict will do to get it into
themselves. Two different addicts had the virus, and he got blood left in
the needle from them into himself.
He had no other of the so called risk factors. Just a LYING JUNKEY. The
site is not mine but a friend that served 3 tours as a marine in Vietnam
called Gunny by his friends. He now resides in the Galveston area but we
are in constant touch. He did the site because he was mad at the Marine
Coward that dishonors the very meaning of the corps.
If you meet Gunny at Arligton do not call him an ex-marine, or a retired
marine. He might show you some nasty fast moves that put you hard down on
your butt. To him it is old marine traditions, "Once a Marine, Always a
Marine", " A Marine is a Marine till the lay him down in his grave, and then
he is still a Marine just a dead Marine", and his all time favorit "Death
before Dishonor". I actually pitty Dennis if Gunny and he run into each
other.
Ken Smith
My solution's a lot simpler. And it works. Moreover, I'm not
'hiding my identity' at all -- unlike the vast majority of USENET
posters. I'm just making it more difficult for jakes to harass me
electronically -- by simply not bothering to update my browser. :)
Speaking of which, what IS the point of all this, Matt, if your
original message was not intended for purposes of harassment
and/or defamation?
Ken Smith
So, you would rather sacrifice your liberty, your basic human rights,
and any hope you might have had to ensure that your children had a
better life, rather than blow up a school bus?!?
With respect, Izzy, you might be a saint, but I'm not.
It's easy to talk about this with piety in the abstract, but when your
basic human rights have been violated, the equation shifts markedly.
If you took away my rights, I can't say that I wouldn't be inclined to
take away your child's right to live. And until we acknowledge that
stark reality with candor, I don't think we'll ever get a handle on the
"terrorism" problem.
Speaking specifically of Baghdad, where the U.S. screwed up was
in blackballing Ba'athists. Saddam's regime was a reign of terror --
and those who participated did so largely out of fear. Well, the big,
bad, U.S. comes in and proclaims that "if you collaborated, you are
screwed." You've just given a million or so people a reason to fight
the invaders, as they have no vested interest in the new regime. It's
a recipe for insurgency -- and Bush has cooked a veritable souffle.
> Izzy
Ken Smith
I don't know that either of those wars were hopeless mismatches,
as history has borne out that they were not. Stone-throwing teens
versus Apache attack helicopters is a hopeless mismatch, though.
Greg Hennessy
wrote:
>> Perhaps you are unable to see the distinction between bombing a city
>> containing a rail hub, armaments factories, oil refineries etc, and setting
>> off a bomb on a bus.
>>
>> I can.
>
> If I recall my history correctly, Dresden had virtually no military
>value.
Your trite version of 'history' is incorrect.
Matt A.00 01 is Matthew Ackerman
I do not remember that post sir. The one about he man giving bad legal
advice to one Mike C. Shultz a man that libeled and cost me money by doing
so? The part about that I stated that lawyers looked into that person and
found that though he passed the BAR exam, he was denied the right to
practice law at all. The fact that unless someone is stating what a
licenced lawyer or Lawyers state in givig advice for fee or free is
technically acting as a practicing attorney according to laws regarding
such? Is that what your thinking of? I did not post that since the advice
was given sir, and according to real Licenced Lawyers in both states
involved (One is in CA. and we email each other from time to time) and the
others are in NJ and in the US Dept. of Justice Office in Ewing, NJ with
their court on State Street, Trenton, NJ that advice was totally wrong in
libel cases that cross by public medium state lines. It becomes under US
Law, that the Plaintif has the right to choose the state it is held in.
Also the fact of laws in the so called "Disabilities Acts" (Federal Laws) go
overboard to make cases heard at the closest court with that type of venue
to the Disabled party. That superseeds any State laws.
They fact is that as I am under medical tracking (tests performed at the
Hospital semi monthly, high up in a list for Transplant and approved by the
Team to be done, at Newark NJ. I am medically bound to this area of the
nation for the forseeble future.
Add to that a real death threat from Mike that has caused an issue of a
warrant for his arrest here in NJ. if that was one of your friends or
associated posters, well one gets known by the company they choose to keep
and take the side of. Need I send you the posts from then?
Matt A.00 01 is Matthew Ackerman
> "E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:11:39 GMT, Ken Smith <Rang...@concentric.net>
>> wrote:
>>> Iskandar Baharuddin wrote:
Ever read the Military philosophies of Sun?
When overwelmed, retreat; when evenly matched hold your ground; when
advantage is yours, attack!
When teens throw stones, just a reminder from the US Supreme Court and the
Student's parents versus the National Guard of Ohio. Some students threw
rocks at the Ohio National Guardsmen, who then opened fire into the students
and even crippled and killed innocent students going to and returning from
casses in May 1970 at the Kent State Campus.
Parents of the dead and the crippled student sued and the appeals back and
forth reached the Supreme Court. The court ruled that the National Guard
were just defending themselves. They clearly laid the blame on the rock
throwers. People can get killed or crippled by the act of Stoning. It was
an ancient death punishment technique as a matter of fact.
So applying that to the teens there throwing rocks and troops then calling
in air support and getting it. To bad. No intellegent person believes you
fight at equal terms. You use overwhelming force or pull back. Simple
soultion to the appache is to not throw the stones in the first place. Do
you know in NJ and most states a policeman can shoot a person throwing rocks
at him or others if they fail to stop when ordered. They do not want
Appache Coptors to be used against them, then do not throw the rocks. Very
simple, it is caused cause and effect. And if you then say the cause is the
occupation that was caused by the Jordanian Occupation and them joing the
attacks on Israel in the '67 war. The Jordanains lost that war and gave up
the West Bank as did Egypt with Gaza. If you try to say but Israel attacked
and started that war, that war was caused by constant attacks on Israel from
Egypt and Syria for over 7 years with out stop and the illegal Blockade by
Egypt of international water way to starve out Israel. All that were acts
of war. It then can be traced back to the First War where the Arabs did not
obide by the UN resolution and attacked Israel in 1948. And even years
before that when the Arabs masacred most of the 3 thousand+ year Jewish
Community at Hebron in the 1920s. That sir proceeded the over fabled Dier
Yassen by years. Also they murdered half the old Jewish Communtity in Old
Jeruselem at that time with the British inentiolnally looking the other way
in all these cases.
Arabs throwing stones invite being shot at. They get their wish of all those
virgins in Paradise according to their beliefs. To teenaged boys that is
beyond anything life offers them so they try to kill those in uniforms in
Baghdad and in the West Bank.
Cause and effect, throw a rock at me and I have a gun, I will defend myself
from that Felonious assualt on me with overwelming force.
Ken Smith
> Ken Smith wrote:
> > "E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:
> >> On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:11:39 GMT, Ken Smith <Rang...@concentric.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>> Iskandar Baharuddin wrote:
> >>>> "=> Vox Populi Š" <v...@popu.li> wrote in message
At least once a year.
> When overwelmed, retreat; when evenly matched hold your ground; when
> advantage is yours, attack!
A little too simplistic. You've obviously read the Cliff's Notes
version.
> When teens throw stones, just a reminder from the US Supreme Court and the
> Student's parents versus the National Guard of Ohio. Some students threw
> rocks at the Ohio National Guardsmen, who then opened fire into the students
> and even crippled and killed innocent students going to and returning from
> casses in May 1970 at the Kent State Campus.
In a country governed by the rule of law, the rules aren't quite the
same as in a country governed by religious nutters. Protests are at
least possible in the U.S. [snipped the rest of Matt's rant]
Ken Smith
> Ken Smith wrote:
> > "Matt A.00 01 is Matthew Ackerman" wrote:
> >> Ken Smith wrote:
> >>> "Matt A.00 01 is Matthew Ackerman" wrote:
> >>>> Ken Smith wrote:
> >>>>> Iskandar Baharuddin wrote:
> >>>>>> "=> Vox Populi Š" <v...@popu.li> wrote in message
This one [attached], you obsessive-compulsive, lying jackass!
Get on with what little is left with your life, cowboy. Grow up
before you die.