IRANIAN WOLF-PACK DOWNS TWA 800 WHILE P-3 & ATTACK SUBS SEARCH (3/18)
nob...@nsm.htp.org
TWO SUBMARINES TRACK ONE MILE N.W. OF TWA 800 FLIGHT PATH AND
DIRECTLY IN LINE OF MISSILE DEBRIS PATH
-------------------------------------------------------------
Two unknown tracks (upper left corner) are within one mile of the
triangulated launch site above. Note that radar-tracked debris stream
from the crash lines up with the launch site.
Susan Smith saw a naval warship about three miles offshore several
hours before the crash. Steward, an eight-year Navy vet, said the ship
was an Aegis Ticonderoga-class cruiser.... Barbara Pacholk, reports
that she saw a surfaced submarine and two Navy ships at crash time.
The Village Voice (03/13/98)
http://www.erols.com/igoddard/twa-core.htm
TWO U.S. SUB-HUNTER SUBMARINES TRACK AT 14 KNOTS SUBMERGED BELOW
TWA 800 FLIGHT PATH
----------------------------------------------------------------
One watercraft disappears and then
reappears as if it were a submarine submerging and then
surfacing. It appears in a location at crash time within
a few miles of the spot from which many witnesses saw a
rocket shoot from the water and takedown TWA Flight 800
(location from which witnesses saw an rocket launch:
http://www.erols.com/igoddard/twa-core.htm ).
This watercraft travels parallel to another craft, as if
they are traveling in formation (military craft travel in
formation!). Around the same time another watercraft is
tracked heading away from the crash site very quickly:
You can see the radar plot at the TWA 800 Case Files:
http://www.webexpert.net/rosedale/twacasefile/boat.html
.. The two sub-like craft are heading SE, out to deep sea.
TWA 800 CRASH UPDATE, Ian Goddard
IRAN HAS CAPABILITY TO PERFORM THIS OPERATION
---------------------------------------------
2 Jan 97 -- Source: U.S. Department of Defense
The third and last Project 877EKM SSK ordered by Iran back in 1994 has
finally departed its shipyard for the Persian Gulf under tow in
mid-December. It arrived in Iran on 6 Jan 97, according to ITAR-TASS.
http://webcom.com/~amraam/curritem.html
SSK KILO CLASS (TYPE 877EKM)
The Russian Kilo Class submarine first entered service in the early
1980's. It was designed by the Rubin Central Maritime Design
Bureau, St Petersburg. Subsequent developments have led to the
current production versions, the Type 877EKM and most recently,
Type 636. The submarine was originally built at the Komsomolsk
shipyard but is now constructed at the Admiralty Shipyard in St
Petersburg. 24 Kilo Class submarines are in service in the
Russian Navy (most of the older designs) and are based in the
Black Sea, the Baltic, the Northern Fleet and the Pacific. A
number have also been exported to Iran, China, India, Poland,
Romania and Algeria. Of these China has two Type 877EKM, India
has eight Type 877EKM, and Iran has three Type 877EKM.
MISSILES
The submarine has a launcher for eight Strela-3 or Igla
surface-to-air missiles. These missiles are manufactured by the
Fakel Experimental Design Bureau, Kaliningrad. Strela- 3 has the
NATO Designation SA-N-8 Gremlin and has a cooled infrared seeker,
rocket motor and an HE-FRAG (High Explosive Fragmentation) warhead
weighing 2 kg. Maximum range is 6 km and speed is Mach 1.7. Igla
(NATO designation SA-N-10 Gimlet) is also infrared-guided but
heavier, with a maximum range of 5 km and speed of Mach 1.65.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/kilo877/index.html
SA-16 GIMLET Man-portable Surface-to-air Missile System
The SA-16 GIMLET (Igla-1 9K310) is a further development from
the SA-7 & SA-14 series of manportable SAMs. The SA-16, which actually
an improved version of the SA-18 GROUSE, which was introduced in 1983,
three years before the SA-16. The SA-16 has been improved over the
SA-18 through the addition of a new seeker and modified launcher nose
cover. Whereas the 9M39 missile is fitted with an aerodynamic spike on
the nose, the 9M310 missile of the SA-16 has the spike replaced with
an aerodynamic cone which is held in place with a wire tripod. The
protective covers of the new seekers differ: on the SA-18 it is
conical shaped cover, while on the SA-16 it is tubular with a
prominent lip at the forward edge. The 9M313 missile of the SA-16
employs an IR guidance system using proportional convergence logic,
and an improved two-color seeker, presumably IR and UV). The seeker is
sensitive enough to home in on airframe radiation, and the two-color
sensitivity is designed to minimize vulnerability to flares. The SA-16
has a maximum range of 5000 meters and a maximum altitude of 3500
meters.
http://users.aol.com/threatmstr/airdef.htm
Type 636 has a displacement of 2,350 tons. Maximum diving depth is
300 m. Speed is 11 knots when surfaced and 20 knots when
submerged. Sea endurance is 45 days. Range is 7,500 miles when
snorkelling at 7 knots and 400 miles when submerged at 3 knots.
The submarine is equipped with advanced ventilation and air
conditioning and a high capacity refrigeration system. Crew
accommodation for a complement of 52 men includes cabins, galley,
showers, medical bay and officer's wardroom.
SSK KILO CLASS (TYPE 636)
The Russian Kilo Class submarine first entered service in the early
1980's. It was designed by the Rubin Central Maritime Design
Bureau, St Petersburg. Subsequent developments have led to the
current production versions, the Type 877EKM and most recently,
Type 636. A successor which incorporates an air-independent
propulsion (AIP) system also designed by Rubin is being
developed.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/kilo/index.html
NAVY P-3 & ATTACK SUBS LOOKING IN WRONG AREA
--------------------------------------------
Around the same time another watercraft is
tracked heading away from the crash site very quickly:
.. The watercraft that races away from the crash site heads
away in a SW direction, out to sea away from Long Island,
but toward the East Coast.
Barbara Pacholk interviewed by Tom Stalcup on 1/28/98. She saw two
objects rise from the water or land. The first object exploded near
the tail and the second near the nose. She also saw a black submarine
and its periscope. According to Ms. Pacholk, the periscope was looking
in the direction of the plane, rotated about a 3/4 turn and saw her,
then left the area. She believes that it is possible that at least one
missile came from this sub. She also notice two large navy vessels in
the ocean. One of which quickly left the area after the tragedy.
http://members.aol.com/bardonia/eyewitn.htm
U.S. NAVY ATTACK SUBS HUNT IN SAME AREA HAVING 'ENEMY'
SUBS 1/2 MILE ON SAME TRACK BEHIND THEM
------------------------------------------------------
The three submarines were identified by the U.S. Navy sources as Fast
Attack Submarine USS Albuquerque, Attack Submarine USS Trepang, and
Ballistic Missile Submarine USS Wyoming. Below, are photographs of the
three submarines.(source: U.S.Navy)
http://www.webexpert.net/rosedale/twacasefile/newsthr.html
Attack submarine, designed to seek and destroy enemy submarines and
surface ships...
A number of Third World countries are acquiring modern
state-of-the-art non-nuclear submarines. Countering this threat is the
primary mission of U.S. nuclear attack submarines. Their other
missions range from intelligence collection and special forces
delivery to anti-ship and strike warfare.
http://www.defensedaily.com/progprof/navy/factfile/ships/ship-ssn.html
U.S. NAVY SUB HUNTING & AIR-DEFENSE ASSETS IN SAME AREA
-------------------------------------------------------
1. NAVY: The ALBUQUERQUE, attack sub sub-hunter at-site
2. NAVY: The TREPANG, attack sub sub-hunter at-site
3. NAVY: The WYOMING, ICBM sub sub-hunter-able at-site
4. NAVY: P-3 Orion aircraft sub-hunter at-site
AEGIS 5. NAVY: The NORMANDY, missile cruiser sub-hunter-able 200 mi-S.
6. USCG: The ADAK, CG patrol boat
7. NYANG: HC-130 aircraft logistics 10 mi
8. NYANG: HH-60 helicopter general 3-10 mi
AEGIS 9. NAVY: USS TICONDEROGA (CG-47) air-defense at-site
http://www.erols.com/igoddard/1year.htm#TERRORISTS
http://www.subasekb.navy.mil/742char.htm
http://websrv1.spear.navy.mil/ships/cg60/cg60_facts.html
http://www.spear.navy.mil/ships/cg47_mission.html
http://www.spear.navy.mil/ships/cg47_facts.html
U.S. NAVY SURFACE SHIPS SEARCHING SEVERAL DAYS EARLIER
------------------------------------------------------
August 9, 1996 The Seattle Times.
According to a report in Newsday, the theory that a missile downed
the jet .... remains alive because investigators have chronicled an
"unusual" amount of radar use among slow-moving ships along the coast
for several days before the crash ....
http://members.aol.com/bardonia/2project.htm
ISLAMIC CELL SHOWS SOME KNOWLEDGE ABOUT OPERATION
-------------------------------------------------
.. the letter, which was presented
to members of the Senate Intelligence and Armed Services
Committees, not only claimed credit for the downing of TWA 800,
but gave the serial number of the Stinger missile which was used.
The letter was written after the downing and gave enough reliable
information to lend credibility to its claim...
According to the letter, the Stinger was fired from a boat.
Stinger Missile Shoots Down TWA Flight 800, RMNews Agency, July 19, 1996
http://prophetic.simplenet.com/info/twa-1.txt
Senior Iranian sources close to the fundamentalist regime in Tehran
claimed this weekend that TWA flight 800 was shot down last month by
one of three shoulder-fired Stingers of the type used by Islamic
guerrillas during the Afghanistan war.
The sources said the missiles arrived in America seven months ago
after being shipped from Karachi via Rotterdam and on to the Canadian
port of Halifax. They claimed an Egyptian fundamentalist group backed
by Iran was responsible for smuggling the weapons across the Canadian
border into the United States.
The group, the Gama'a al-Islamiya, comprises followers of Sheikh Omar
Abdel-Rahman, a blind Egyptian cleric jailed in the United States over
the 1993 New York World Trade Center bombing...
Terrorists reportedly smuggle missiles into U.S., Times of London, Aug 25, 1996
http://prophetic.simplenet.com/info/twa-15.txt
Why is it known that the Western states blackout on
July 2 and the downing of TWA Flight 800 are related? For
the simple reasons that the same group gave advance warning
of the incidents to an official body of the U.S. government...
The group, funded by Syria, has promised more
incidents to come, including plane shoot-downs...
Syria and TWA Flight 800, J. Orlin Grabbe, July 28, 1996
http://prophetic.simplenet.com/info/twa-10.txt
EARLY EVIDENCE OF SAM-16 GIMLET MISSILE DAMAGE ON TAIL
------------------------------------------------------
.. A photo of the lower section of the
vertical stabilizer does show, however a crease in the leading edge
and numerous small chips and dings in the surface paint (black & white
photo precludes examination of white undercoat or bare metal in red
surface) that seem to splay backward and upward. This is similar to
the type of damage seen in photos of aircraft struck by small,
shoulder-fired, IR-guided surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) of the
SA-7/14/16/18 GRAIL/GREMLIN/ GIMLET/GROUSE and FIM-92 Stinger types.
How A Missile Might Have Brought Down Twa Flt 800, By: Ron Lewis,
EmergencyNet NEWS Service, July 23, 1996
http://prophetic.simplenet.com/info/twa-9.txt
.. A possible explanation was
provided by a Navy diver who confided to one of the National
Transportation Safety Board investigators that he had seen and reported
evidence of antiaircraft missile parts in the debris field on the very
first day of the video mapping...
FBI covers-up cause of TWA 800 crash?, Strategic Investment, 4-97, p. 2
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Raptor
If you believe any of this, you are a fool. It is apparently intended as
comedy.
nob...@nsm.htp.org wrote:
>
> TWO SUBMARINES TRACK ONE MILE N.W. OF TWA 800 FLIGHT PATH AND
> DIRECTLY IN LINE OF MISSILE DEBRIS PATH
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Two unknown tracks (upper left corner) are within one mile of the
> triangulated launch site above. Note that radar-tracked debris stream
> from the crash lines up with the launch site.
>
> Susan Smith saw a naval warship about three miles offshore several
> hours before the crash. Steward, an eight-year Navy vet, said the ship
> was an Aegis Ticonderoga-class cruiser.... Barbara Pacholk, reports
> that she saw a surfaced submarine and two Navy ships at crash time.
>
> The Village Voice (03/13/98)
> http://www.erols.com/igoddard/twa-core.htm
That's if you want to get your facts from a cartoon someone drew up, instead of
referring to credible sources like Aviation Week, or the NTSB. The radar
summary can be obtained from the NTSB, or you can see a more realistic and
detailed one at
http://www.xmission.com/~lawall/twa.html#RadarTrack.
> TWO U.S. SUB-HUNTER SUBMARINES TRACK AT 14 KNOTS SUBMERGED BELOW
> TWA 800 FLIGHT PATH
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> One watercraft disappears and then
> reappears as if it were a submarine submerging and then
> surfacing. It appears in a location at crash time within
> a few miles of the spot from which many witnesses saw a
> rocket shoot from the water and takedown TWA Flight 800
> (location from which witnesses saw an rocket launch:
> http://www.erols.com/igoddard/twa-core.htm ).
>
> This watercraft travels parallel to another craft, as if
> they are traveling in formation (military craft travel in
> formation!).
American submarines operate independently. Two American subs travelling that
close together will probably interfere with each other's sonar. Travelling so
close together in a hostile environment is not tactically sound.
Around the same time another watercraft is
> tracked heading away from the crash site very quickly:
>
> You can see the radar plot at the TWA 800 Case Files:
> http://www.webexpert.net/rosedale/twacasefile/boat.html
Kilo submarines are not known for their speed, in fact you blow this theory out
of the water with your own data below. Kilos are the only type Iran is
suspected of having. But that URL happens to be another good one from which to
get one's radar data.
> MISSILES
>
> The submarine has a launcher for eight Strela-3 or Igla
> surface-to-air missiles. These missiles are manufactured by the
> Fakel Experimental Design Bureau, Kaliningrad. Strela- 3 has the
> NATO Designation SA-N-8 Gremlin and has a cooled infrared seeker,
> rocket motor and an HE-FRAG (High Explosive Fragmentation) warhead
> weighing 2 kg. Maximum range is 6 km and speed is Mach 1.7. Igla
> (NATO designation SA-N-10 Gimlet) is also infrared-guided but
> heavier, with a maximum range of 5 km and speed of Mach 1.65.
>
> http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/kilo877/index.html
The problems with an IR-guided missile being the culprit are illustrated at
http://www.xmission.com/~lawall/twa.html#NoStinger.
> Type 636 has a displacement of 2,350 tons. Maximum diving depth is
> 300 m. Speed is 11 knots when surfaced and 20 knots when
> submerged. Sea endurance is 45 days. Range is 7,500 miles when
> snorkelling at 7 knots and 400 miles when submerged at 3 knots.
And here's why it (probably) wasn't an Iranian sub. There's a helluva lot more
than 7500 miles between Iran and Long Island. I suggest you try to find out
whether Iran has any sub-tending capability.
> Barbara Pacholk interviewed by Tom Stalcup on 1/28/98. She saw two
> objects rise from the water or land. The first object exploded near
> the tail and the second near the nose. She also saw a black submarine
> and its periscope. According to Ms. Pacholk, the periscope was looking
> in the direction of the plane, rotated about a 3/4 turn and saw her,
> then left the area. She believes that it is possible that at least one
> missile came from this sub. She also notice two large navy vessels in
> the ocean. One of which quickly left the area after the tragedy.
If you know the first thing about submarines and their periscopes, you know
almost for certain that this lady (or the interviewer) is lying out her ass!
Any sub far enough out to sea to be at periscope depth is WAY too far from shore
for someone to see the periscope, not to mention see it closely enough to tell
which direction it's looking.
> U.S. NAVY ATTACK SUBS HUNT IN SAME AREA HAVING 'ENEMY'
> SUBS 1/2 MILE ON SAME TRACK BEHIND THEM
Any sub commander stupid enough to let an enemy sub ride 900 yards behind his
sub is incompetent. I suspect that any enemy sub command who gets as close as
900 yards to another sub either has balls of steel or no brains whatsoever.
> U.S. NAVY SUB HUNTING & AIR-DEFENSE ASSETS IN SAME AREA
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> 1. NAVY: The ALBUQUERQUE, attack sub sub-hunter at-site
> 2. NAVY: The TREPANG, attack sub sub-hunter at-site
> 3. NAVY: The WYOMING, ICBM sub sub-hunter-able at-site
Ballistic missile submarines are never risked in a sub-hunting role.
> 4. NAVY: P-3 Orion aircraft sub-hunter at-site
> AEGIS 5. NAVY: The NORMANDY, missile cruiser sub-hunter-able 200 mi-S.
> 6. USCG: The ADAK, CG patrol boat
Probably not ASW capable.
> 7. NYANG: HC-130 aircraft logistics 10 mi
Probably not ASW capable.
> 8. NYANG: HH-60 helicopter general 3-10 mi
Possibly not ASW capable.
> ISLAMIC CELL SHOWS SOME KNOWLEDGE ABOUT OPERATION
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> .. the letter, which was presented
> to members of the Senate Intelligence and Armed Services
> Committees, not only claimed credit for the downing of TWA 800,
> but gave the serial number of the Stinger missile which was used.
> The letter was written after the downing and gave enough reliable
> information to lend credibility to its claim...
> According to the letter, the Stinger was fired from a boat.
>
> Stinger Missile Shoots Down TWA Flight 800, RMNews Agency, July 19, 1996
> http://prophetic.simplenet.com/info/twa-1.txt
RMN stands for "Rumor Mill News" Service: check the URL.
> EARLY EVIDENCE OF SAM-16 GIMLET MISSILE DAMAGE ON TAIL
If you check out the "NoStinger" URL I provide above, you'll see why this is
highly unlikely.
> .. A possible explanation was
> provided by a Navy diver who confided to one of the National
> Transportation Safety Board investigators that he had seen and reported
> evidence of antiaircraft missile parts in the debris field on the very
> first day of the video mapping...
>
> FBI covers-up cause of TWA 800 crash?, Strategic Investment, 4-97, p. 2
This might be worth something, but only if this Navy diver can be found to
verify this claim. The rest of the information you present is just silly.
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
Okay people, reality check time!
http://www.xmission.com/~lawall/reality.html