Merchant fabricates Customer's Order Record
Power Tan
dispute against the charge with the credit card company. Both sides
of the dispute provide reason for its own legitimacy. The credit card
company will make the final decision. But in order to justify the
charge, the merchant placed false information onto my order record.
It then sent the record to the credit card company, which in turn
passed it to me as the merchant's explanation.
I have solid evidence for the fabrication, and like to bring this
matter to court. My questions are: 1. is this a worthy case for a
lawsuit? 2. if yes, which specialty of lawyers deals with this type
of cases?
I am living in Orlando, FL, so like to find a lawyer in this city.
Thank for your expertise and help.
PT
richard
Depending on the value of the item, you could simply file for a hearing in
a small claims court. If that is a local merchant you would file in HIS
jurisdiction. That's to ensure the decision is binding.
If it is internet based, then you will definitely require an attorney.
Talk to an attorney and ask about "fraud" and "larceny by trick".
If the CC company decides with the merchant, and you still feel this is an
improper charge, then you should contact the US Secret Service. Anything to
do with money is their jurisdiction.
Deadrat
news:s5swkaqnot6t.z...@40tude.net:
Be sure to do that so the Secret Service can put your name next to
richard's on its all-time worst ignoramus list.
> Anything to do with money is their jurisdiction.
They investigate counterfeiting. Notice that money isn't even involved in
this tale of woe.
richard
Oh? Perhaps you'd like to tell that to Steve Ford.
Son of Pres. Gerald Ford. He hosted a show for 2 years about the US SS.
They do in fact investigate credit card fraud. Counterfeiting is but one
item of many.
richard
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:50:08 -0700, richard <mem...@newsguy.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Depending on the value of the item, you could simply file for a hearing in
>>a small claims court. If that is a local merchant you would file in HIS
>>jurisdiction. That's to ensure the decision is binding.
>
> Has nothing to do with 'binding', it has to do with the proper venue.
>
>>If it is internet based, then you will definitely require an attorney.
>
> Umm.. Sure. Great logic there.
>
>>Talk to an attorney and ask about "fraud" and "larceny by trick".
>>If the CC company decides with the merchant, and you still feel this is an
>>improper charge, then you should contact the US Secret Service. Anything to
>>do with money is their jurisdiction.
>
> Only if that money happens to be printed in someones basement.
>
> Where did you pull that one out of?
Deadrat
news:bo788z2o80gc$.ybtf9f01...@40tude.net:
And if you follow your link, you know what you get? Advice from the
Secret Service about what to do if you're the victim of credit card
fraud, starting with *contacting your local police*
The Secret Service investigates crimes that affect the integrity of the
US financial system. Counterfeiting, obviously, but also computer-
related financial crimes and credit card fraud. But by the latter they
mean large-scale crimes like operating skimming devices that steal
numbers from readers.
The OP described a situation that might not even be a crime, just a
dispute with a merchant.
Deadrat
news:m1asf5prk6968chi0...@4ax.com:
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:35:38 -0700, richard <mem...@newsguy.com>
> wrote:
>
>>http://www.secretservice.gov/faq.shtml
>>
>>http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS300&=&q=se
>>cret+service+credit+card+fraud&aq=0&oq=secret+service+credit&aqi=g2
>
> What the OP described isn't credit card 'fraud', it's a credit card
> dispute.
>
> Credit card fraud would be someone making a copy of his credit card
> and going on a shopping spree.
Or, to be fair, a merchant placing phony charges on a customer's card. But
the Secret Service wouldn't investigate either of those.
> Thanks for playing however.
Please. Don't encourage him.
richard
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:35:38 -0700, richard <mem...@newsguy.com>
> wrote:
>
>>http://www.secretservice.gov/faq.shtml
>>
>>http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS300&=&q=secret+service+credit+card+fraud&aq=0&oq=secret+service+credit&aqi=g2
>
> What the OP described isn't credit card 'fraud', it's a credit card
> dispute.
>
> Credit card fraud would be someone making a copy of his credit card
> and going on a shopping spree.
>
> Thanks for playing however.
Suggest you look up "larceny by trick".
richard
Let's say you live in Cincinnati.
You go across the river into Kentucky and buy something from a store.
You come to find out the store made another entry on your card.
You call the Cincinnati cops. Guess what they're gonna tell you? It's not
our jurisdiction. We don't handle disputes. Contact your bank.
Your remaining alternative is to return to the merchant's police
jurisdiction and file criminal charges. Now how ya gonna prove your case?
Deadrat
news:jt5pj1sue1e$.94h4qef5...@40tude.net:
The Secret Service still isn't going to investigate it.
Power Tan
Orlando, Florida. The merchant company is in Cincinnati, Ohio. The
amount involved is not big, only $79.90. Following I am telling the
whole story which is rather long. Thanks in advance for you patience.
On August 10, 2009, I made order of a $5.95 medical supplement online
in response to an advertisement. A fact I like to mention is that
unlike all other orders I made online, this merchant didn't send me
email to confirm the order, though I provided as requested on the
order sheet.
After a few days, the product came, but there was no invoice or any
papers in the envelope listing the drug's name, price, company name
and contact information. After about a month, another shipment
arrived in mid-September, again no invoice was enclosed. I knew there
had to be a price, but didn't know how much it was. I wanted to return
it, but had no idea its return policy.
Then came the credit card statement which indicated the price was
$79.90. But the merchant's contact information, phone number
included, was not list in it. I was unable to contact it to cancel
the order, thus immediately disputed the transaction with the CC
company.
Some days after, the CC company mailed me a letter from the merchant
in response to my dispute. Only at this time I became aware of the
merchant's contact information from the letter.
Wasting no time, I called the merchant on Nov. 3, to cancel the
order. An Account Specialist did it accordingly, and sent an email to
my address to confirm the cancellation with a reference number.
Please note this event and the date, as they will be critically
important for the story. The next day, I mailed the product back to
the company.
In the letter, the merchant claimed that I had been notified of and
agreed to purchase the product with $79.90 every two months, and would
follow its policy on cancellation and return. I wrote back that the
merchant had no evidence of having notified me of its policy. It did
not confirm the order with email, because it would have to confirm not
only the $5.95 order, but also my agreement to pay the bi-monthly
$79.90 which it didn't tell me anything about.
Now come to the point of fraud. The merchant states in a page of the
letter that I canceled the order on October 8, which I surely didn't.
Please open the following page to see what the merchant did:
http://www.pinyinology.com/vianda/cancel.html
The above page is a fabrication. As said earlier, I didn't became
aware of the contact phone number until Nov. 2, thus was unable to
call and cancel the order or shipment on Oct. 8.
If, as the merchant says, I did cancel the order on Oct. 8, he must
have sent me an email to confirm it, together with a cancellation
number, as he did on Nov. 3. I bet he is not able to produce such
email, as the page is a falsification.
Then, why did the merchant make the fabrication? He wanted to prove
that from the very beginning I knew the $79.90 bi-monthly shipment
policy, the requirement for return and cancellation, and his contact
phone number. But I just didn't call until Nov. 3.
This also explains why the merchant didn't send me email to confirm
the order. He would have to not only to confirm the $5.95 order, but
also my $79.90 bi-monthly commitment, my knowledge of his cancellation
and return policy, and of the contact information. As I said, I was
not told about all this at all. Therefore, it was easy for the
merchant to send email to confirm the order, but intentionally did not
do it.
Thanks for coming to this point. Your opinions and advices are greatly
appreciated.
McGyver
"Power Tan" <tan...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:71c78c75-35e4-45da...@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
If your "solid evidence" really is solid evidence, then yes, you have a good
basis for a lawsuit for fraud. Fraud is an intentional tort, meaning
punitive damages can properly be applied. The potential recovery amount
could be large enough to interest a contingency fee attorney.
Fraud cases are handled by personal injury attorneys. Use the phone book or
any such source. Call and ask if the attorney handles contingency cases.
If the answer is "yes", "maybe" or "sometimes", make an appointment and
discuss the matter with the attorney. If three or four say it is too small,
then it is. That would mean that is not only is too small for the attorney,
it is also too small for you to pursue using an attorney on an hourly fee
basis. The fees would likely exceed the recovery.
If no contingency fee attorney will take it, take it the case to small
claims court.
This answer must not be relied on as legal advice for the reasons posted
here: http://mcgyverdisclaimer.blogspot.com . And I am not your attorney.
McGyver
Power Tan
>
> If your "solid evidence" really is solid evidence, then yes, you have a good
> basis for a lawsuit for fraud. Fraud is an intentional tort, meaning
> punitive damages can properly be applied. The potential recovery amount
> could be large enough to interest a contingency fee attorney.
>
> Fraud cases are handled by personal injury attorneys. Use the phone book or
> any such source. Call and ask if the attorney handles contingency cases.
> If the answer is "yes", "maybe" or "sometimes", make an appointment and
> discuss the matter with the attorney. If three or four say it is too small,
> then it is. That would mean that is not only is too small for the attorney,
> it is also too small for you to pursue using an attorney on an hourly fee
> basis. The fees would likely exceed the recovery.
>
> If no contingency fee attorney will take it, take it the case to small
> claims court.
>
suggest I go to local police or US Secret Service.
My understanding is that those organizations deal with criminal
activities.
Thanks again.
PT.
McGyver
Fraud is a crime as well as the basis of a civil suit. But you should
consider your priorities. You might decide that your priorities are in this
order:
1. Convince the bank not to allow the charge to your account. If you
succeed, you have no damages and no civil case for fraud.
2. If you fail with the bank, then sue the merchant for fraud.
3. After steps 1 and 2, you can file a complaint with the police. That
probably won't get you any payment by the merchant, but it is possible. The
merchant might decide to settle with you because (a) restitution might
convince the prosecutor to treat the case as a misdemeanor rather than a
felony or to drop the case, or (b) the merchant might decide that a
conviction might influence the bank to cancel the credit card services
contract.
There is one dangerous temptation you should avoid. It is a crime to
threaten to file a criminal complaint in an attempt to get the merchant to
pay you. If you even mention to the merchant that you intend to file a
criminal complaint, you are taking the risk that you could be charged with
blackmail or extortion.
richard
The crime of fraud has been committed, regardless of your actions.
If during an investigation the police find the item, they don't even need
your input.
Whether or not you request your bank not to charge is incidental. The crime
is still a crime. Regardless of what the bank does.
Advising a business of a possible suit or criminal charges is no more a
crime than a collection agency or a debtor advising you that failure to pay
your debt will be acted upon.
Deadrat
news:1hp8075wxf1z7$.4ev0mdcfrcre$.d...@40tude.net:
One man's advice is another man's threat. You may advise someone (in
either sense) of your intention to sue, but threatening to accuse someone
of a crime unless they pay you money, even money they owe you, is
extortion.
Suppose you say, "Let me give you a little free legal advice. It is a
crime not to pay me." You're right on the edge and may find yourself
trying to convince a jury that no reasonable person would interpret the
"advice" as a threat to go to police.
richard
So any time a creditor or collection agency sends me a letter stating I
have to pay the amount due or legal action will be taken, I can have them
charged with extortion. Yeah I can see where the judge will rule in my
favor for sure. NOT!
Deadrat
news:cvz9i26ss7ur$.16xzmdai5tatt$.d...@40tude.net:
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 13:45:27 -0600, Deadrat wrote:
>
>> richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote in
>> news:1hp8075wxf1z7$.4ev0mdcfrcre$.d...@40tude.net:
>>
>>> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 06:39:37 -0800, McGyver wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Power Tan" <tan...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:fb3a679f-f970-447f...@p28g2000vbi.googlegroups.c
>>>> om ...
Of course not, you ignoramus. They mean they'll sue you in civil court
to obtain a judgment against you in the amount of your debt. If they say
that they'll report you to the police for criminal fraud unless you pay,
*that* would be extortion.
Power Tan
> richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote innews:cvz9i26ss7ur$.16xzmdai5tatt$.d...@40tude.net:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 13:45:27 -0600, Deadrat wrote:
>
> >> richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote in
> >>news:1hp8075wxf1z7$.4ev0mdcfrcre$.d...@40tude.net:
>
> >>> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 06:39:37 -0800, McGyver wrote:
>
My thanks to all of you for your advices come too late, but hopefully
better than none. Thanks a million again.
PT