FingerPrint Database Search
bt196...@gmail.com
it takes to search them. I think this question is relevant to this
moderated newsgroup.
My question particularly relates to biometric passports which I think
are going to have fingerprints encoded in them, so when you visit the
USA the border control can check your actual fingerprints against your
passport.
Can US border control also check your actual fingerprints against a
central database to verify your identity, or am I being paranoid? They
would have to do that within a few seconds so it would require vast
computing power, which I am guessing they cannot do for all the tens
of thousands of people who go into the USA on Visa Waiver or
Canadian/Mexican status every day.
In other words, for the USA, how much time would it take to check your
actual fingerprints against a central database? or do they just check
it against your biometric passport?
Robert Bonomi
In article <ke5rj5l71aevds03m...@4ax.com>,
<bt196...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I have a question about large scale fingerprint databases and how long
>it takes to search them. I think this question is relevant to this
>moderated newsgroup.
>
[. snip question detail re: checking fingerprints against a central database .]
>In other words, for the USA, how much time would it take to check your
>actual fingerprints against a central database? or do they just check
>it against your biometric passport?
Short answer, "it depends on how it's done." <grin>
*AND* what you're trying to accomplish.
If you're just trying to verify that the prints recorded in the passport
chip match the ones on file _FOR_THAT_PASSPORT_ in the central repository,
the answer is 'it can be done _very_ quickly'. circa 0.05 seconds is
probably on the high side.
If you have a set of 'unknown' fingerprints, and want to find a match in
the database, that's a _very_ different proposition. probably a minimum of
6-12 _hours_, *assuming* that this search is the _only_ use of the database
that is occurring for that period.
Checking the prints of a person in front of you with the information stored
in the passport takes a relatively small amount of time -- to pick a number
out of thin air, say 10 seconds. _In_parallel_ to that one can query the
master database, to verify the passport hasn't been tampered with. If the
query originates from the far side of the world from the database location,
one -might- have as much as 1-2 seconds of communications latency (round trip).
plus around 50-100 milliseconds for the actual database query. So, you can
verify the accuracy of the recorded-in-the-passport fingerprint data a good
10-12 seconds *before* you have completed the comparison of the real print
against the passport data.
OTOH, trying to find a match for some 'random' prints -- from a crime scene,
say -- *somewhere* in the database, well, you can do somewhere around _three_
such queries =per=day=, using a copy of the database that is entirely dedicated
to that purpose. The 'bad news' is that the dedicated database copy probably
only needs less than $20,000 of hardware/software. if a governmental org
can spring $1 million for the job, one can find a match (*assuming* it exists
in an average of a bit over 20 minutes). Establishing conclusively that the
prints are _not_ in the database takes around 40-45 minutes.
Amortize it over 3 years, and, not counting the 'human labor' costs, it works
out to around $15 for each set of prints that are 'identified', and about $30
for each set that fails identification. "Worth it?" Who knows. <wry grin>
Dan Lanciani
| I have a question about large scale fingerprint databases and how long
| it takes to search them. I think this question is relevant to this
| moderated newsgroup.
|
| My question particularly relates to biometric passports which I think
| are going to have fingerprints encoded in them, so when you visit the
| USA the border control can check your actual fingerprints against your
| passport.
|
| Can US border control also check your actual fingerprints against a
| central database to verify your identity, or am I being paranoid? They
| would have to do that within a few seconds so it would require vast
| computing power, which I am guessing they cannot do for all the tens
| of thousands of people who go into the USA on Visa Waiver or
| Canadian/Mexican status every day.
If I understand your question correctly I believe it is based on a false
technical premise. If Mr. Smith presents his credentials and finger
prints at the border and the authorities wish to confirm his identity
they would access Mr. Smith's record in whatever database contains the
information and then compare the recorded fingerprint statistics with
those of (the alleged?) Mr. Smith (or more likely with those contained
within his passport). There would be no computationally-intensive search
as you suggest. Of course, it may not be a given that the US has real-time
access to the databases of other countries.
Now I suppose that if (the alleged) Mr. Smith has fingerprints which do
not match the statistics in his record in the central database the
authorities could then do a search for a matching fingerprint in the
computationally-intensive way you suggest. I doubt that this would be
their first response, though, for both technical and political reasons.
N.B. If Mr. Smith does indeed have an apparently valid passport with
fingerprint statistics that match him but those statistics do not
match those in a central database something _really bad_ has happened.
At best the central database has been compromised. Much worse, the
key(s) used to cryptographically sign the passport data may have been
leaked or there is a flaw in the crypto protocol or a weakness in the
underlying crypto itself. In any case, I suspect Mr. Smith is in for
a world of trouble.
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Deadrat
4ax.com:
> I have a question about large scale fingerprint databases and how long
> it takes to search them. I think this question is relevant to this
> moderated newsgroup.
If you're interested, there is a Fingerprint Verification Competition.
Google is your friend. A little noodling around finds that five years
ago a PC could run software to examine about 70K fingerprints per second.
The US keeps in excess of 50M fingerprints in its databases.
>
> My question particularly relates to biometric passports which I think
> are going to have fingerprints encoded in them, so when you visit the
> USA the border control can check your actual fingerprints against your
> passport.
>
> Can US border control also check your actual fingerprints against a
> central database to verify your identity, or am I being paranoid?
It's impossible for me to evaluate your mental health on a newsgroup, but
such verification doesn't appear to be that difficult. US passports
currently encode identification, including your picture but not your
fingerprints, in a chip. I don't believe they have the ability to
automatically match the information in the chip to your person.
> They
> would have to do that within a few seconds so it would require vast
> computing power, which I am guessing they cannot do for all the tens
> of thousands of people who go into the USA on Visa Waiver or
> Canadian/Mexican status every day.
It wouldn't even require a half-vast amount of computing power.
Especially considering that they can increase the speed by decreasing the
accuracy. They could afford to come up with "false drops," erroneous
matches that they could eliminate with other information. For example,
if you're male and the algorithm matches your prints to a woman's.
> In other words, for the USA, how much time would it take to check your
> actual fingerprints against a central database? or do they just check
> it against your biometric passport?
You're assuming that the gov would want to match your fingerprints
against their entire collection. Why would they do that? That would
mean checking against the fingerprints of the incarcerated.
I suppose it would be useful to match fingerprints to passports so as to
identify criminals attempting to flee the country on valid passports.
How many people do you suppose we're talking about?
Remember, the US doens't fingerprint all its citizens. The US doesn't
even fingerprint applicants for passports.
Yet.
Doug McCrary
<bt196...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ke5rj5l71aevds03m...@4ax.com...
>I have a question about large scale fingerprint databases and how long
> it takes to search them. I think this question is relevant to this
> moderated newsgroup.
>
> My question particularly relates to biometric passports which I think
> are going to have fingerprints encoded in them, so when you visit the
> USA the border control can check your actual fingerprints against your
> passport.
>
> Can US border control also check your actual fingerprints against a
> central database to verify your identity, or am I being paranoid? They
> would have to do that within a few seconds so it would require vast
> computing power, which I am guessing they cannot do for all the tens
> of thousands of people who go into the USA on Visa Waiver or
> Canadian/Mexican status every day.
>
This assumes a no match. It should only happen rarely, if ever.
> In other words, for the USA, how much time would it take to check your
> actual fingerprints against a central database?
This could be done in a few seconds to verify a match, if they wanted to.
If they don't match, you're either under arrest or denied entry.
or do they just check
> it against your biometric passport?
I'd expect it's a bit of both. E.g.,
Routine traffic stop. You show your D/L and registration. CHP (California)
can verify both by number almost as fast as they can say it. They have a
terminal where they can see your d/l picture and thumbprint.
Don't have your d/l with you? That's an offense by itself, but CHP can look
you up by name and address, too.
No registration? CHP can look up your vehicle by VIN.
What happens next depends on what those checks find.
So, what are you worried about?