School (elementary) question
blue
years. I am curious as to how much things have changed since *I* was in
school. Also have an advice-needed question.
What do kids do these days in each grade? Here is what is was for me--
Kindergarten: we took a nap on a mat each day, no gym class, we had a play
area with kitchen stuff, dolls, and blocks, and we learned to write the
alphabet and count. We wrote our names on that big lined paper.
First grade: we learned to add and subtract, started gym class 3 days a
week.
Second grade: We had homework for the first time. It included putting lists
of words in alphabetical order, and writing words 5 times ("repetitions")
and putting words into sentences- we would have a vocabulary list. I
specificially remember spending an afternoon in class learning the word
"serendipity".
Third grade: We started learning the branches of government and social
studies for the first time.
Fourth grade: We learned long division and I think this is when we started
learning our state capitals ...
Fifth grade: We learned some multiplication tables but not all the way to
12x12. Reading was more complex, and there was also a "higher" math class--
they were starting to separate kids by level, IOW.
Sixth grade: We started to learn very very very basic prealgebra- very
simple equations. The highest reading group had to answer really long
paragraphs of critical thinking questions and we memorized the
multiplication tables up to 12x12.
7th grade was prealgebra, 8th was algebra, 9th was geometry and biology etc.
So what do kids these days do? I have heard some say that kids are given
homework in kindergarten. And for sure, lots more homework than we were, and
are learning math much earlier etc. I'm sure there's computer stuff too...we
had Apple IIe in about 4th or 5th grade that we played games like Number
Munchers on.
And: for stay at home moms...if my kid is NOT in daycare or preschool, will
she be behind in kindergarten?? Should I get her into a pre-k program at 4,
or preschool at 3?? Even just a couple days a week? I asked a friend and she
said her daycare just changed diapers and fed the kids and played with them,
and did not teach them ABCs or numbers or anything, that everything her kid
learned he learned at home from her. Another friend is adamant that daycare
had her kid counting to 30, knowing all the colors, reciting the alphabet
and spelling/reading basic words like cat etc before school and therefore
was an advantage. I know it depends on the daycare but what about the kids
who don't go to anything?? I can teach her what I can, but I am worried
about the structure of school. I am concerned about my kid learning a set
schedule without me being there, being away from me, coping with suddenly
being only 1 out of about 30 kids, and not adjusting to kindergarten. Any
advice?
Clisby
My observations are based on:
(1) a 10-year-old who was in private school from kindergarten-half of
3rd grade; then in public school
(2) a 4.5-year-old who's in a Montessori primary class (ages 3-6)
Just in general, if you move what you've described down a year, you'll
be approximating what kids do these days. In other words, what you
describe as kindergarten is done in preschool, what you describe as
first grade is done in kindergarten, etc. I would expect homework in
kindergarten, and I'd expect social studies to start by 1st grade (if
not kindergarten). I'm surprised that you listed long division in 4th
grade and multiplication tables in 5th. I would have expected
multiplcation tables to come no later than 3rd grade and long division
early in 4th grade. That's how it was when I was in school (I'm almost
53); it was similar for my daughter, except that she started
multiplication in 2nd grade.
I don't know for sure about middle school. I took Algebra I in 8th
grade, Algebra II in 9th grade, geometry in 10th grade, advanced
algebra/trigonomeetry in 11th grade, and something called Senior Math in
12th grade (basically, it was pre-calculus.)
> And: for stay at home moms...if my kid is NOT in daycare or preschool, will
> she be behind in kindergarten?? Should I get her into a pre-k program at 4,
> or preschool at 3?? Even just a couple days a week? I asked a friend and she
> said her daycare just changed diapers and fed the kids and played with them,
> and did not teach them ABCs or numbers or anything, that everything her kid
> learned he learned at home from her. Another friend is adamant that daycare
> had her kid counting to 30, knowing all the colors, reciting the alphabet
> and spelling/reading basic words like cat etc before school and therefore
> was an advantage. I know it depends on the daycare but what about the kids
> who don't go to anything?? I can teach her what I can, but I am worried
> about the structure of school. I am concerned about my kid learning a set
> schedule without me being there, being away from me, coping with suddenly
> being only 1 out of about 30 kids, and not adjusting to kindergarten. Any
> advice?
>
>
I would not worry about a child being behind academically without
preschool, unless the child lives in a really deprived environment.
That is, if your child has no idea what a book is for (no, I'm not
kidding), preschool probably is a real good idea.
I think preschool was great for my children, but mostly for social
development, not academics.
Clisby
Ericka Kammerer
> What do kids do these days in each grade? Here is what is was for me--
> Kindergarten: we took a nap on a mat each day, no gym class, we had a play
> area with kitchen stuff, dolls, and blocks, and we learned to write the
> alphabet and count. We wrote our names on that big lined paper.
Things vary dramatically from state to state and school
district to school district. You won't know without checking
your local schools. That said, I'll answer based on my experience
and what I've heard others from other places say.
Kindy is stepped up quite a bit. Naps seem rare.
Kitchen/dolls/blocks/etc. seem rare. They aren't generally
expected to be able to read going in, but they are expected
to be reading and writing going out.
> First grade: we learned to add and subtract, started gym class 3 days a
> week.
Expect homework, and perhaps significant homework, by
first grade. Gym varies. Some schools have done away with it
all together. Daily gym is rare. In our elementary school
it's two days a week for every grade. Expect more math and
perhaps more advanced reading and writing than you had (not
to mention science and social studies). Most seem to be doing
journals by then, if they didn't start in kindy.
> Second grade: We had homework for the first time. It included putting lists
> of words in alphabetical order, and writing words 5 times ("repetitions")
> and putting words into sentences- we would have a vocabulary list. I
> specificially remember spending an afternoon in class learning the word
> "serendipity".
Mine were doing multiplication and division in 2nd grade,
along with graphing and basic statistics and that sort of thing.
They were in more advanced math groups. There was significant
science and social studies as well.
> Third grade: We started learning the branches of government and social
> studies for the first time.
For us, third grade social studies is mostly ancient
history (Greece, Rome, Egypt, Mali).
>
> Fourth grade: We learned long division and I think this is when we started
> learning our state capitals ...
This would be late for long division from my experience.
For us, fourth grade is state history.
> Fifth grade: We learned some multiplication tables but not all the way to
> 12x12. Reading was more complex, and there was also a "higher" math class--
> they were starting to separate kids by level, IOW.
>
> Sixth grade: We started to learn very very very basic prealgebra- very
> simple equations. The highest reading group had to answer really long
> paragraphs of critical thinking questions and we memorized the
> multiplication tables up to 12x12.
>
> 7th grade was prealgebra, 8th was algebra, 9th was geometry and biology etc.
>
> So what do kids these days do? I have heard some say that kids are given
> homework in kindergarten.
Yes, many kindergarteners have homeowrk.
> And for sure, lots more homework than we were, and
> are learning math much earlier etc.
Yep.
> I'm sure there's computer stuff too...we
> had Apple IIe in about 4th or 5th grade that we played games like Number
> Munchers on.
Most schools I'm aware of have computer labs that
the kids start using early, and probably some computers in
the classroom. By 5th grade my kids had lots of assignments
they had to do on the computer (computer based research,
PowerPoint presentations, most major assignments typed, etc.)
> And: for stay at home moms...if my kid is NOT in daycare or preschool, will
> she be behind in kindergarten?? Should I get her into a pre-k program at 4,
> or preschool at 3??
*Must* you? Certainly not. I'm sure if you're motivated
you can provide all the academic and social experiences she
wouldn't otherwise get. *Should* you? Well, that depends on
you. I certainly did/do. My kids have absolutely loved preschool.
DD started at 2yo, not because I thought she had to in order to
be ready for school, but because she was dying to go. She had
a blast, learned a lot (at a developmental preschool, not an
academic one), and pouted all summer because school wasn't in
session. She's thrilled to be back now.
> Even just a couple days a week? I asked a friend and she
> said her daycare just changed diapers and fed the kids and played with them,
> and did not teach them ABCs or numbers or anything, that everything her kid
> learned he learned at home from her.
Hogwash. A good preschool (or daycare, for that matter)
will be working on pre-literacy skills and numeracy skills, but
many parents don't recognize that as "teaching ABCs and numbers"
and dismiss it as unimportant. Your friend's daycare may not have
been doing either (in which case shame on them), but a good
developmental preschool program will be teaching lots of great
skills but will look like "just play" to many parents. That's
a strength, not a weakness.
> Another friend is adamant that daycare
> had her kid counting to 30, knowing all the colors, reciting the alphabet
> and spelling/reading basic words like cat etc before school and therefore
> was an advantage.
That daycare probably wasn't any better if they were
pounding that sort of stuff into the kids, ready or not.
And it is not necessary in most districts for kids to go into
kindergarten knowing reading, writing, and doing 'rithmetic
already.
> I know it depends on the daycare but what about the kids
> who don't go to anything?? I can teach her what I can, but I am worried
> about the structure of school. I am concerned about my kid learning a set
> schedule without me being there, being away from me, coping with suddenly
> being only 1 out of about 30 kids, and not adjusting to kindergarten. Any
> advice?
One of the huge benefits of a good preschool is that
they *do* teach all those social skills in a less demanding
situation. You can try to replicate that with your structure
at home and by getting her involved in activities where she
has those other interactions with children and learns to
take direction from other adults. It's just that a good preschool
is an easy way to make all that happen, and it gives you a
little time to attend to other things to boot. Kindergarten
teachers clearly can tell the difference between kids who've
been in preschool or daycare in most situations. Most of the
kids that your child goes to kindy with will have been in
daycare or preschool. As a result, there is a strong
tendency for classes to be geared towards kids who have that
experience because those are the overwhelming majority of the
kids. Kids who have not had preschool or daycare generally
catch on quickly, but it can make for a more bumpy transition.
Personally, if you have access to a high quality preschool,
the only reason I can see to avoid it is cost. If you do not
have access to a high quality preschool, that's a different
story.
Best wishes,
Ericka
Ericka Kammerer
> I don't know for sure about middle school. I took Algebra I in 8th
> grade, Algebra II in 9th grade, geometry in 10th grade, advanced
> algebra/trigonomeetry in 11th grade, and something called Senior Math in
> 12th grade (basically, it was pre-calculus.)
Here, a few take Algebra I in 7th grade (or something
even higher--generally the center-based GT kids who are strong
in math), the "honors level" kids tend to take it in 8th grade,
and the rest in 9th grade. I think all the high schools around
here offer at least through calculus for the more advance
high school math students, but people take a variety of
paths depending on their level of ability and interest in
math and which diploma program they're pursuing.
Another thing I forgot to mention is that many
school systems or state education boards have websites
where they list the standards of learning for each
grade and subject and also the graduation requirements
for high school. It should also cover the standardized
testing they do.
Best wishes,
Ericka
toto
wrote:
>a good developmental preschool program will be teaching lots of great
>skills but will look like "just play" to many parents. That's a strength, not
>a weakness.
Absolutely. This is one handout I gave to parents.
What Children Learn during Play
Painting Easel: The painting area provides children with the
opportunity to develop fine motor skills and eye-hand coordination.
Children may express their thoughts and ideas through drawing and
painting and experiment with color, form and texture. Problem solving
skills, planning and organizing are also emphasized. The children
have a chance to expand their oral language skills as they talk
about their paintings.
Creative Art Area: The primary purpose of the creative art area is to
stimulate imagination and creativity The children have the
opportunity to develop fine motor skills through manipulating
scissors, crayons, markers and other materials. Children are
encouraged to plan and organize the materials they will use and to
problem solve and difficulties which may come up. Working in this
center allows the children to experiment with a variety of materials
and to become aware of balance, form, color and texture.
Drama Area: .The drama area provides children with the opportunity to
role play and express thoughts and ideas through dramatic play.
Children may release and explore emotionsin their play and work
cooperatively with other children in the group. Children learn to
share materials and develop a sense of responsibility through caring
for and cleaning up the materials
Water Center: Playing in the water area helps to stimulate
creativity, fosters sensory exploration and develops math and science
concepts. Children may explore the concepts of water - wet, warm,
cold, etc.) and estimate and measure using standard and non-standard
measues. The idea of volume and conservation of volume are explored
in this center as well.
Reading Area: The book center fosters an appreciation of books in
children. Children experience a variety of print materials and learn
to handle books properly. They are exposed to new vocabulary words
and develop language and listening skills. Children learn to enjoy
books both independently and as a group. Opportunities are presented
for exploring ideas and emotions as well as acquiring new information.
Writing Area: The writing area helps children to develop early
printing skills and letter recognition skills. Children have the
opportunity to experiment with a wide variety of wrting materials. In
this area, children practice such skills as printing from left to
right, distinguishing lower and upper case letters and letter
formation.
Sand area: The sand area provides a place for children to engage in
sensory exploration. Children may explore the properties of sand
(wet/dry) and measure using both standard and non-standard measures.
Once again volume and conservation of volume are explored. Working
with sand also improves eye-hand coordination and small muscle
control.
Cognitive - Floor Toy Area: The cognitive area gives children
opportunities to sort, classify and sereate materials. Children's
problem solving skills are encouraged through the use of puzzles and
manipulative toys. Children develop the ability to share and
cooperate with others through the use of group games and activities.
Science Area: The science area encourages children to actively
explore with all their senses. Children are encouraged to explore
objects and focus on the where, what, why, when and how questions
while doing so. Materials in this area stimulate problem solving and
analytical skills.
Block Area: The block area provides opportunities for children to
design and create large structures. Children have the chance to
engage in role play as well, as they build structures and engage in
play which is personally meaningful. Working in this area helps
develop spatial awareness and promotes early math concepts (bigger,
smaller, more, less). Unit blocks also promote the idea of 1/4, 1/2,
etc. as the child sees that the small block can be compared to the
larger ones. It also develops the idea of estimating as the child
builds structures as tall as his head and needs to see how many more
blocks he might need.
--
Dorothy
There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
The Outer Limits
Mommy of 2
I didn't read all the posts, so my reply could already be here. I have
a daughter who spent 2 years in preschool, and just went into
kindergarten 2 weeks ago. She came out of pre k knowing her numbers,
alaphabet, reading and writing them, colors, shapes, name, address,
phone number, some adding, lots of friends, and they had some homework.
This week in school, they are learning their colors. (I called the
school, sort of mad) The teacher wants to know what level her students
are on. I was told they will start their reading groups in early
october, math later in the year. They are expected to come out knowing
at least 37 sight words (I think that's the right number). Homework
books will go home mon-thur starting next week. One child at our bus
stop still has a hard time with her letters. So I think the teachers
work hard to help each child. (She's going to work with my daughter and
2 other students on a first grade level.)
In my opinion, preschool depends on the ability of each child. My
daughter could have done fine without preschool. She gets along great
with people, has amazing speech, and vocabulary, and is a very fast
learner. I'm sure her leap frog toys were a big help too. My son on the
other hand, has a real hard time with other people, speech is
developing slowly, and if the topic is not cars, he walks away. Ex. He
doesn't like to listen to a story if there is no car in the picture.
Nikki
"blue" <noemai...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZL2dnQQXH8Q8E5TY...@ctc.net...
> What do kids do these days in each grade?
I can only answer for my school and only through first grade.
Here is what is was for me--
> Kindergarten: we took a nap on a mat each day, no gym class, we had a play
> area with kitchen stuff, dolls, and blocks, and we learned to write the
> alphabet and count. We wrote our names on that big lined paper.
Full days. No nap but there is short quiet time after lunch for reading,
listening to music, etc. and if a child wants to sleep I think they are
permitted. They do have a play area that includes all the items you
mentioned and a play post office. They have center time that includes
various games, play dough, etc. They learn numbers/counting, ABC's, spell
color words, a bunch of site words (many kids are reading but not all),
shapes, introduced to counting money, name, address, phone, introduced to
writing although not all kids write, lots of crafty stuff that teaches them
things, lots of songs and movement, lots of stories and reading out loud,
describing things etc. They have gym, music, and computers but not every
day. They had feild trips where they learned about real life stuff like the
post office, traffic rules, etc. No homework but we were suppose to read at
home.
> First grade: we learned to add and subtract, started gym class 3 days a
> week.
Add, subtract, count money, learn more site words, be able to read, science
stuff, gym, music, computers, library, art, writing, and maybe a very small
amount of spelling. They started workbooks. Reading out loud and center
time are still around. There was 10-20 minutes of reading homework each
night.
--
Nikki, mama to
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Brock 4/06
Ben 4/06
mym...@gmail.com
> Kindergarten: we took a nap on a mat each day, no gym class, we had a play
> area with kitchen stuff, dolls, and blocks, and we learned to write the
> alphabet and count. We wrote our names on that big lined paper.
This sounds like my DS's 2YO pre-school curriculum.
> And: for stay at home moms...if my kid is NOT in daycare or preschool, will
> she be behind in kindergarten?? Should I get her into a pre-k program at 4,
> or preschool at 3?? Even just a couple days a week? I asked a friend and she
> said her daycare just changed diapers and fed the kids and played with them,
> and did not teach them ABCs or numbers or anything, that everything her kid
> learned he learned at home from her.
Sounds like she's getting ripped off. Even the home based
daycare/pre-schools that I looked into do more than that. That sounds
unbelievably archaic and sad. I can't believe that ANY state would
allow such a facility to exist without horrible ratings.
>Another friend is adamant that daycare
> had her kid counting to 30, knowing all the colors, reciting the alphabet
> and spelling/reading basic words like cat etc before school and therefore
> was an advantage. I know it depends on the daycare but what about the kids
> who don't go to anything??
My friend's DD that just started Kindy last year was dramatically
behind the kids that went to full time daycare. She went to pre-school
2 days a week from 2YO on. However, she was able to catch up very
fast.
>I can teach her what I can, but I am worried
> about the structure of school. I am concerned about my kid learning a set
> schedule without me being there, being away from me, coping with suddenly
> being only 1 out of about 30 kids, and not adjusting to kindergarten. Any
> advice?
My DS is hyperlexic so he knew his alphabet and has loved letters,
numbers, words and books from a very young age. But just because he
can read way ahead of his age, didn't mean that there weren't things he
could learn at pre-school. Plus he was (and still is some) clingy and
desperately needed socialization with other little ones on a more
structured level. No matter how much he learned at home with me there
was nothing I could do to replicate him playing with and interacting
with his peers. Plus he LOVES it!!
dragonlady
mym...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Kindergarten: we took a nap on a mat each day, no gym class, we had a play
> > area with kitchen stuff, dolls, and blocks, and we learned to write the
> > alphabet and count. We wrote our names on that big lined paper.
>
> This sounds like my DS's 2YO pre-school curriculum.
>
> > And: for stay at home moms...if my kid is NOT in daycare or preschool, will
> > she be behind in kindergarten?? Should I get her into a pre-k program at 4,
> > or preschool at 3?? Even just a couple days a week? I asked a friend and she
> > said her daycare just changed diapers and fed the kids and played with them,
> > and did not teach them ABCs or numbers or anything, that everything her kid
> > learned he learned at home from her.
>
> Sounds like she's getting ripped off. Even the home based
> daycare/pre-schools that I looked into do more than that. That sounds
> unbelievably archaic and sad. I can't believe that ANY state would
> allow such a facility to exist without horrible ratings.
Really? When my kids were in day care, that's what I wanted: someone
who would change them, feed them, and play with them. "Play", done
well, will also, incidentally, include learning, since it will include
LOTS of reading to them, and playing with blocks (learning,
incidentally, colors and numbers) and, coloring (and probably writing
their names) and -- well, all kinds of things. I dind't particularly
WANT them someplace (at the age where they still needed diapers changed)
where there was going to be some formal "curriculum".
What's more, when I was home full time with my kids, I didn't do a lot
of "formal" curriculum sorts of things with them -- but they started
kindergarten just fine; they knew the alphabet, and could count (and
add and subtract), and knew a handful of sight words, and knew all their
colors and shapes, and had great vocabularies. A "formal" academic
program is really not necessary for any of that -- and if the state had
insisted that my day care provider have some sort of "formal" academic
program, it would have really, really pissed me off,
>
> >Another friend is adamant that daycare
> > had her kid counting to 30, knowing all the colors, reciting the alphabet
> > and spelling/reading basic words like cat etc before school and therefore
> > was an advantage. I know it depends on the daycare but what about the kids
> > who don't go to anything??
>
> My friend's DD that just started Kindy last year was dramatically
> behind the kids that went to full time daycare. She went to pre-school
> 2 days a week from 2YO on. However, she was able to catch up very
> fast.
My kids did not go to much preschool (the two younger ones went two days
a week for a year, partly because I'd gone back to work part time) --
and they did NOT start behind. Parents who are home full time with
their kids and don't send them to preschool tell me that their kids do
just fine, provided they pay attention to stuff like reading to them,
and general education.
It is entirely possible to teach your kids what they'll need to know to
start school without paying someone else to do it.
Heck, it's entirely possible to teach your kids everything they need to
know IN elementary school (and even further) without sending them away
or paying someone else to do it. Though I didn't do it, many folks home
school quite successfully.
I think there's WAY too much anxiety about sending kids to preschool
these days. Yes, for kids in disadvantaged households where their
parents don't read to them, and don't interact with them in a way that
encourages them to learn their colors and numbers and shapes and all
that stuff, preschool really helps.
>
> >I can teach her what I can, but I am worried
> > about the structure of school. I am concerned about my kid learning a set
> > schedule without me being there, being away from me, coping with suddenly
> > being only 1 out of about 30 kids, and not adjusting to kindergarten. Any
> > advice?
>
> My DS is hyperlexic so he knew his alphabet and has loved letters,
> numbers, words and books from a very young age. But just because he
> can read way ahead of his age, didn't mean that there weren't things he
> could learn at pre-school. Plus he was (and still is some) clingy and
> desperately needed socialization with other little ones on a more
> structured level. No matter how much he learned at home with me there
> was nothing I could do to replicate him playing with and interacting
> with his peers. Plus he LOVES it!!
I agree that finding ways for kids to interact with other kids before
sending them off to school is important -- but preschool is not the only
way to do it.
I'm NOT oppossed to preschool. Many kids enjoy it, many families find
it helpful in many, many ways.
I'm AM oppossed to the pressure -- and to the message that kids who
aren't sent off to preschool are going to be at a disadvantage.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care
Ericka Kammerer
> and if the state had
> insisted that my day care provider have some sort of "formal" academic
> program, it would have really, really pissed me off,
Just to pick a nit: a formal curriculum does not mean
an academic preschool. In fact, the new NAEYC standards *require*
a written curriculum, but they do not require (or even really
support the notion of) academics for preschoolers. *ANY*
preschool should have a curriculum. That's how you figure
out whether you're doing the stuff you're supposed to be
doing with preschoolers. The best quality daycares, preschools,
and home care situations will have them.
> My kids did not go to much preschool (the two younger ones went two days
> a week for a year, partly because I'd gone back to work part time) --
> and they did NOT start behind. Parents who are home full time with
> their kids and don't send them to preschool tell me that their kids do
> just fine, provided they pay attention to stuff like reading to them,
> and general education.
It is certainly possible to have them ready to go
academically. It is more challenging to have them ready
to go socially, though that is also possible for those who
keep it in mind as something that needs to be done. Things
have changed significantly since your kids were kindergarten-
aged. Since so few kids haven't been in preschool or
daycare, there is less time and energy spent on learning
how to cope with all the stuff like lines and directions
and classroom rules and staying on task and being one of
many kids and so on and so forth. None of this is rocket
science, and there are certainly ways to provide a child
with other opportunities to be in a group led by another
adult, so I'm not saying that preschool or daycare is
necessary. I'm just saying that a child who has never
been in those sorts of situations will be at more of a
disadvantage in kindergarten today than twenty or more
years ago. So, it's not so much about whether you choose
*preschool* per se, but whether a child has had those
sorts of social opportunities. I certainly would argue
that the child who hasn't will have a rougher transition
to kindy (and who needs that?) than one who has had some
of those experiences.
Best wishes,
Ericka
blue
"Ericka Kammerer" <e...@comcast.net> wrote So, it's not so much about whether
> *preschool* per se, but whether a child has had those
> sorts of social opportunities. I certainly would argue
> that the child who hasn't will have a rougher transition
> to kindy (and who needs that?) than one who has had some
> of those experiences.
>
> Best wishes,
> Ericka
This is how I feel..I thought about it some more, and I am not worried about
the academic part- colors, shapes, alphabet etc.
I am much more worried about the social structure of things...this was 25
years ago and would be very different from now, AND I went to a very very
small rural public school...but I never had babysitters or organized
anything and to this day I remember a lot of anxiety over my first day of
kindergarten. I grew to love school, but I was terrified of the teacher
because I had never been in a situation before where I couldn't "go potty"
when I needed to, and had to wait an hour for lunch if I was hungry at 11am
instead of noon, and had to wait in line etc. I was extremely shy for the
first few weeks. That's what I remember about kindergarten! Having just a
few minutes to eat lunch...not being allowed to get up from the table until
the teacher lined us up...being allowed to talk quietly only or the
cafeteria monitors would scold...having to sit at a desk until I had
permission to get up.
I adjusted obviously. I did feel behind (socially) to those who had been in
structured group environments before. I was always head of the class as far
as brightness/reading and math. I loved to read.
I don't feel the pressure to make my DD ahead academically (sheesh, it's
grade school!) but I do worry about her adjustment and transitioning. I
agree though--I don't need preschool or a paid environment, I can just look
for other alternatives. Any ideas? I am planning to join a mom's group which
will be informal but should still teach DD more about group dynamics and
play. Church is another idea..we've attended Catholic Mass where there is a
cry room, I want to switch to another denomination that has earlier aged
Sunday school classes...perhaps a preschool program at the library? (maybe
she won't sit still or quiet yet enough for this one! but it's free to take
her to story hour...)....baby gym such as Gymboree can be expensive. There's
a local mall that has a huge padded play area with things to climb on
(indoors) and is swarming with kids...can't remember if I mentioned it, took
DD there last week and was shocked at how SHY she was- it was a zoo, but
there were kids under 1 there who were in the flow and DD shied way back
until DH and I got out there with her, and still stuck to us.
FWIW, I have a friend whose 3 and a half year old kid hates ChuckECheez and
crowds. She's shy...I've just never thought, ever, that my DD is shy until I
see her in these situations. The pther kid is shy 100% of the time. I am a
little (but not overly) concerned that my DD is just at a loss in new
situations because she's not accustomed.
mym...@gmail.com
This is the sort of thing that even a few days of pre-school a week
could easily help with. She will be used to sitting down as a group,
getting in line to go outside or to lunch and listening to the teacher
etc.. ;-)
> I don't feel the pressure to make my DD ahead academically (sheesh, it's
> grade school!) but I do worry about her adjustment and transitioning. I
> agree though--I don't need preschool or a paid environment, I can just look
> for other alternatives. Any ideas? I am planning to join a mom's group which
> will be informal but should still teach DD more about group dynamics and
> play. Church is another idea..we've attended Catholic Mass where there is a
> cry room, I want to switch to another denomination that has earlier aged
> Sunday school classes...perhaps a preschool program at the library? (maybe
> she won't sit still or quiet yet enough for this one! but it's free to take
> her to story hour...)....baby gym such as Gymboree can be expensive. There's
> a local mall that has a huge padded play area with things to climb on
> (indoors) and is swarming with kids...can't remember if I mentioned it, took
> DD there last week and was shocked at how SHY she was- it was a zoo, but
> there were kids under 1 there who were in the flow and DD shied way back
> until DH and I got out there with her, and still stuck to us.
Sunday school would probaby be the closest thing to a school-type
social environment. But that is for such a short time and is only once
a week. The other things you mentioned, I'm not so sure they would
help ease her transition into a structured achool environment but and
interaction with other kids is always helpful.
If you are aprehensive about putting her in, most places will allow you
to come in at any time (with or without your child) and see if it's for
you. Then if you find one you like, go online and see if it's rated
well by your state. I am in AZ and it took some time online to find
the page but I'm willing to bet that most states offer this online.
I think this is good for the child and mom. I know it's a nice break
for me as well as a real treat for my DS. (now that he's used to it
that is :-)
> FWIW, I have a friend whose 3 and a half year old kid hates ChuckECheez and
> crowds. She's shy...I've just never thought, ever, that my DD is shy until I
> see her in these situations. The pther kid is shy 100% of the time. I am a
> little (but not overly) concerned that my DD is just at a loss in new
> situations because she's not accustomed.
My DS also hated crowded situations like CEC or a wild play area but
pre-school has helped him immensely in these situations. Although CEC
still intimidates him and I like to take him there as early as possible
on weekdays so it's not so in his face and crazy. He has much more fun
that way and is more eager to go out on his own.
Caledonia
I think that ChuckECheez is horrible -- loud, overwhelming, all 'too
much,' and wouldn't use that as an example of a crowd situation.
Caledonia
Ericka Kammerer
> I don't feel the pressure to make my DD ahead academically (sheesh, it's
> grade school!) but I do worry about her adjustment and transitioning. I
> agree though--I don't need preschool or a paid environment, I can just look
> for other alternatives. Any ideas?
Well, it is challenging to find opportunities for preschoolers
to learn to transition to being in a group with another adult in
charge and no parents without paying something for it ;-) There
are opportunities, though.
> I am planning to join a mom's group which
> will be informal but should still teach DD more about group dynamics and
> play.
Yes, if the group is right for you it can be a good
opportunity to play with groups of kids.
> Church is another idea..we've attended Catholic Mass where there is a
> cry room, I want to switch to another denomination that has earlier aged
> Sunday school classes...
That can help. My kids have always gone to nursery
during church once they got to the squirmy stage (after the
children's sermon). Between nursery, Sunday School, Godly
Play, Vacation Bible School, and various other church programs,
that can add up to a lot of opportunities, and they're generally
free.
> perhaps a preschool program at the library? (maybe
> she won't sit still or quiet yet enough for this one! but it's free to take
> her to story hour...)
Sure. Those usually don't involve a lot of interaction,
but they're still opportunities.
> ....baby gym such as Gymboree can be expensive.
Yep, but kids tend to love it.
> There's
> a local mall that has a huge padded play area with things to climb on
> (indoors) and is swarming with kids...can't remember if I mentioned it, took
> DD there last week and was shocked at how SHY she was- it was a zoo, but
> there were kids under 1 there who were in the flow and DD shied way back
> until DH and I got out there with her, and still stuck to us.
That might just be her personality, but you won't really
know unless she has opportunities to get used to those sorts of
situations.
There are all kinds of other classes for preschoolers
that can be fun, some with parental involvement and some without.
I have a preschooler who just turned 3yo. Last year (at 2yo),
she went to preschool two half days a week, took some dance
classes (with a parent), and went to nursery and Sunday School.
Last summer she did Vacation Bible School (love that). This
year she's doing three half days of preschool a week, dance
class (no parent) once a week, and nursery & Sunday School.
If we didn't have conflicts, she'd be doing the church music
and movement class (can't beat what is essentially a free
Kindermusik class, but I just can't make the schedule work!).
She's having a grand old time. She's very social, so frankly,
she'd do more if she could. For her, it's all a blast. Everything
is at church (the preschool is run by the church) or at the
dance studio, both of which she's spent extensive time at
since she was in utero, so they're second homes for her. I
think having lots of other adults she is comfortable with and
being used to different situations has made it much easier for
her than it was for my first, who didn't get out as much.
> FWIW, I have a friend whose 3 and a half year old kid hates ChuckECheez and
> crowds. She's shy...I've just never thought, ever, that my DD is shy until I
> see her in these situations. The pther kid is shy 100% of the time. I am a
> little (but not overly) concerned that my DD is just at a loss in new
> situations because she's not accustomed.
Wouldn't you be? I think most of us (except for maybe
the most adventurous) are a bit hesitant in unfamiliar situations
where we don't know all the social rules.
Best wishes,
Ericka
toto
wrote:
>> I don't feel the pressure to make my DD ahead academically (sheesh, it's
>> grade school!) but I do worry about her adjustment and transitioning. I
>> agree though--I don't need preschool or a paid environment, I can just look
>> for other alternatives. Any ideas?
>
> Well, it is challenging to find opportunities for preschoolers
>to learn to transition to being in a group with another adult in
>charge and no parents without paying something for it ;-) There
>are opportunities, though.
Depending on the age of your child and what other parents in your area
do, you might be able to organize a playgroup. My ds and dd both had
one though they were between 18 months and 3 at the time. They both
went to half-day preschools at 3.
Here's how ours worked. We had 4 of us with children of about the
same age in our neighborhood. We started with a regular playdate
rotating houses with all moms staying for about an hour or two. We
did this once a week. We then began having two of the moms leave and
having two of the moms stay. After a while, we began to have the
three moms who were visiting leave and just the mom whose house it was
at staying So, by the time the kids were two, we each had 3 days a
month where the kids separated from us with a familiar mom and had
activities at the other mom's house. Each of us had different things
we liked to do, so we each planned our sessions according to our
strengths, but there were always some special activities involved
though it was mostly supervised free play. In good weather, we might
have water activities in the back yard. In the fall, we might rake
leaves into piles and jump in them. In the winter, we might play in
snow if there was any (my yard in particular was good for this as it
had a *small* hill the kids liked to slide down on saucers or just on
their bottoms. We often did some messy craft like finger painting or
playing with playdough.(again this might be outside if the weather was
nice so that cleanup was not as much of a problem). We used
recyclables to make art stuff (the kids did these any way they liked,
of course, we never did crafts, but more free form art).
Good luck!
npa...@indiana.edu
a 'play-based' kindergarten, though I was reading a bit before I
started first grade ... I'd pretty much taught myself.
The elementary school Shaina went to had mixed grade classes, so it
really affected the way subjects were taught. Her kindy class, for
example, was K/1 (and there are also K/1/2 classes in the school.) So
it was quite academic, but at the same time there was no pressure to
perform especially early. Shaina was reading before she started
kindergarten but there were plenty of kids who weren't. Most of those
were reading by the time they finished kindergarten, however. The mixed
grade arrangement made it easier for the more advanced students (like
Shaina) to work ahead of grade level, while other less advanced
students got what THEY needed. And, while some subjects (like math and
reading) were, of necessity, taught in a fairly rigid sequence (so the
3rd graders, for example, from ALL the mixed 3/4 classes got together
to learn whatever it was 3rd graders usually learned in math. THough,
if a child did get ahead, he would be moved to a more advanced
class), subjects like social studies and science were taught on a 2
year rotating cycle. So some kids would have, say, U.S. history as
fifth graders and world history as 6th graders, and vice versa.
To address the 'preschool' question, Shaina went to two different
preschools. The first, run by the city, was quite unstructured and very
small, but they certainly had games and activities with numbers and
letters and colors. (Though I recall the teacher being surprised that
Shaina, when she started at just-turned-3, knew her numbers.) The
second was definitely more academic, (and much larger) with kids
divided by age and more focus on letters and numbers. Though even there
is was mostly of the 'recognizing letters and the sounds they make'
type, not 'you'll be reading Shakespeare by the time you hit
kindergarten' type.)
I also worked at a preschool for a couple of years just a few years
ago. Same basic idea, lots of 'learning' of many types went on, but
the kids weren't expected to (and only a few of them learned to) read
or write anything more than their own names before moving on to
kindergarten.
I agree that an enriched home environment with plenty of books and
games will provide the same sort of academics that would be found in
any decent preschool or daycare. The main thing it provides is
socialization and an introduction to being in a structured setting with
other kids.
(Oh, and Shaina is now in high school and studying [this trimester,
anyway], English (they just read "To Kill a Mockingbird" and did a unit
on prejudice), Biology (studying biomes and raising algae), Algebra (so
far mostly review of last year's pre-algebra class but I think that all
8th graders didn't take pre-algebra, so the review is necessary),
Japanese, and Drawing. Later this year she'll take PE (2 trimesters
required for Freshmen then no more is required, though elective PE
classes are available for upperclassmen) and Journalism. The school
calendar is weird, with the school on a trimester system, but
individual classes are either one (drawing), two (biology, japanese,
journalism, PE) or three (English, Algebra) trimesters long. Results in
quite a jigsaw puzzle of classes and, for the most part, she has
different teachers each trimester even for the 2-3 trimester classes.
I'm not thrilled with the arrangement, but so far she loves high school
(hated middle school) so as long as she's happy, we're happy.
Naomi
Chookie
"blue" <noemai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What do kids do these days in each grade? Here is what is was for me--
> Kindergarten: we took a nap on a mat each day, no gym class, we had a play
> area with kitchen stuff, dolls, and blocks, and we learned to write the
> alphabet and count. We wrote our names on that big lined paper.
I was in Kindy (here in NSW) in 1975 and we didn't have naps, though we had
the play corner, games/dancing rather than sport, we learnt the alphabet,
numbers etc and used litle cards with words on to make sentences.
Most of DS1's classmates in K this year are learning to read. They use
unlined paper for writing. THey are learning whole adn half-hour time,
> First grade: we learned to add and subtract, started gym class 3 days a
> week.
Phonics. Can't remember about maths, as I had the same teacher and classroom
for two years.
<skipping the rest>
> So what do kids these days do? I have heard some say that kids are given
> homework in kindergarten. And for sure, lots more homework than we were, and
> are learning math much earlier etc. I'm sure there's computer stuff too...we
> had Apple IIe in about 4th or 5th grade that we played games like Number
> Munchers on.
In DS1's classroom they have about 4 computers. As it's a portable classroom,
they don't have internet access. In Term 1 there was no homework. In Term 2,
they started taking home books for reading practice. Additional homework (max
10 mins) was supposed to be set from Term 3, but we've only seen one worksheet
so far, and next week is the last week of Term 3!
> And: for stay at home moms...if my kid is NOT in daycare or preschool, will
> she be behind in kindergarten?? Should I get her into a pre-k program at 4,
> or preschool at 3?? Even just a couple days a week? I asked a friend and she
> said her daycare just changed diapers and fed the kids and played with them,
> and did not teach them ABCs or numbers or anything, that everything her kid
> learned he learned at home from her. Another friend is adamant that daycare
> had her kid counting to 30, knowing all the colors, reciting the alphabet
> and spelling/reading basic words like cat etc before school and therefore
> was an advantage. I know it depends on the daycare but what about the kids
> who don't go to anything??
The school will cope. It's simply that far more children go to preschool and
day care these days. I remember wondering, on my first morning of school, why
all the other kids were crying when there wasn't anything to cry about. I
*had* been to preschool, but for most children, this was the first time they
had been separated from their mothers.
You might want to consider a daycare with a "school readiness" programme, or a
preschool, for a couple of days a week. In Australia, preschools are cheaper
as they keep shorter hours. DS1's day care's preschool readiness programme
included attempts at writing letters of the alphabet in NSW Foundation
Style,learning letters and numbers, learning simple shapes, colours, etc plus
the children ate sandwiches out of lunch boxes in the second half of the year
(cling wrap can be a problem for young children, and here we send kids to
school with sandwiches and fruit for lunch). DS1's day care had a tour of the
school earlier in the year too.
Another thing to look at is child development. IF a child is *ready* to learn
colours/letters/numbers/shapes before school, and they are exposed to them,
they will learn. If they are not ready to learn, they will not -- and the
average child learns their letters at about 5yo. Your friend's child learnt
because he was ready to learn.
> I can teach her what I can, but I am worried
> about the structure of school. I am concerned about my kid learning a set
> schedule without me being there, being away from me, coping with suddenly
> being only 1 out of about 30 kids, and not adjusting to kindergarten. Any
> advice?
Why should she not adjust, even if it takes longer than average? I do know
where you are coming from -- after a difficult transition to day care the
previous year, I was bracing myself for tears at the school gate. It didn't
happen -- DS1 *loves* every bit of school. Remember that most children *like*
routine and respond well to it, and that they like other people too -- we're
made for relationship, after all.
One suggestion: expect that your kid will like school, and she will. Keep
your fears private, and talk about the friends you made and the things you did
at school (I still have a friend I met in 1st grade!). Secondly, attend the
orientation sessions with your child so that they become familiar with the
school and the staff. Of course playgroups, library book-readings and so on
are good too, if you cannot afford preschool. There are plenty of ways you
can introduce structured groups to your child.
--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)
"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue
Chookie
"blue" <noemai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I adjusted obviously. I did feel behind (socially) to those who had been in
> structured group environments before. I was always head of the class as far
> as brightness/reading and math. I loved to read.
My feeling is that a child who is ahead on the academics has some slack where
any social deficit can be made up, and vice versa. OTOH it is bound to be
hard if you come from an unstimulating, socially limited environment.
> There's
> a local mall that has a huge padded play area with things to climb on
> (indoors) and is swarming with kids...can't remember if I mentioned it, took
> DD there last week and was shocked at how SHY she was- it was a zoo, but
> there were kids under 1 there who were in the flow and DD shied way back
> until DH and I got out there with her, and still stuck to us.
That's not a crime. Those places are rather less orderly than a school! When
DS1 was littler he was like that in strange places or crowds. I always told
him to stay with me until he felt happy to play with the other children (note
the assumption that he *would* eventually feel comfortable to do so). At
five, you would never guess that this was once necessary!