Don't breastfeed in Walmart...
The Aimster
leave as she was BF'ing her baby. Isn't there are new law that passed in a
majority of the states that says it is legal to BF in public? I thought
there was. I plan of BF'ing but I would have gone in the dressing room or
restroom.
Just wondered what you guys thought of all of this....Am interested in
hearing the outcome...
--
~Amy Gossett
CoolP...@worldnet.att.net
http://home.att.net/~coolpotter/pottery/potsx.html
AOL Instant Messenger: BADBEAMER
Located in "Peachy" Albany, Georgia alongside the Flint River.
"Television does not make a perfectly sane man go out and kill 5
people. Not even "must see TV"."----Fox Mulder, The Xfiles
Melanie
Wal-Mart. The woman I think you are talking about was nursing on a bench
next to the dressing rooms. That part of the store was virtually empty. An
employee (I think a security guard) told her to take it into the bathroom or
leave. When she first lodged a complaint, representatives of Wal-Mart said
they would give her special permission to nurse in their stores. The woman
thought this was not quite good enough and decided to sue. IMHO, any
private business should be allowed to set their own BF policy. *BUT* as
consumers with a voice, we can choose not to patronize those establishments
and shop where BF is welcomed and encouraged (Like Target :-)).
Just my $.02
Melanie
The Aimster wrote in message <7etljo$mi1$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
Larry McMahan
The Aimster (coolp...@worldnet.att.net) writes:
: My DH was telling me about a lady who is suing Wal-mart bc they asked her to
: leave as she was BF'ing her baby. Isn't there are new law that passed in a
: majority of the states that says it is legal to BF in public? I thought
: there was. I plan of BF'ing but I would have gone in the dressing room or
: restroom.
'Scuse me, but what a wuss out! :-) Whether there is a law in your state
that breastfeeding in public is protected, the store management needs to
get the message that policies such as theirs are no longer tractable.
Why don't you post the address of the Walmart so some nice ladies can
organize a nurse in and call the local media. :-)
: Just wondered what you guys thought of all of this....Am interested in
: hearing the outcome...
Nurse-in, nurse-in, nurse-in! Where's the store?
: --
: ~Amy Gossett
: CoolP...@worldnet.att.net
Larry,
a supportive husband of
a breastfeeding mother!
Heidi Carr
meal in a public restroom? I think not! I can hardly stand to even use
most restrooms for what they are intended for because of the shape most of
them are in. I certainly wouldn't want to subject my baby to those germs
etc., especially when eating.
And this comes from a mom who breastfed #1 for only 5 weeks, but has been
breastfeeding #2 for 15.5 months. And I am a very self-conscious person and
DON'T like people watching me breastfeed, but I have found that it can be
done very discreetly in the open.
My understanding of the laws here in Ohio (where the current Wal-Mart law
suit is occuring here in my hometown) are that you cannot LEGALLY be asked
to stop breastfeeding or to leave a public shop because of it. But I'm not
sure. I've never had to investigate it thoroughly because I've never been
asked to stop or leave.
~-~-~-~-~~-~-~-~-~~-~-~-~-~~-~-~-~-~~-~-~-~-~
Heidi Carr <hm_...@nospam.donet.com>
Mom to Chris 10/87, Courtney 12/97 and Cameron (looks like it's a
boy!)/Cathryn due 08/99
Sorry for the annoyance, but if you wish to e-mail me please removed
"nospam." from my address. Thanks.
~-~-~-~-~~-~-~-~-~~-~-~-~-~~-~-~-~-~~-~-~-~-~
The Aimster <coolp...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7etljo$mi1$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...
> My DH was telling me about a lady who is suing Wal-mart bc they asked her
to
> leave as she was BF'ing her baby. Isn't there are new law that passed in
a
> majority of the states that says it is legal to BF in public? I thought
> there was. I plan of BF'ing but I would have gone in the dressing room or
> restroom.
>
> Just wondered what you guys thought of all of this....Am interested in
> hearing the outcome...
>
Tolleman and Rachel
Heidi Carr wrote in message ...
>Why should you go to the bathroom to feed your baby? Would you eat your
>meal in a public restroom? I think not! I can hardly stand to even use
>most restrooms for what they are intended for because of the shape most of
>them are in. I certainly wouldn't want to subject my baby to those germs
>etc., especially when eating.
I love JCPenney for this. Every JCPenney's I've been in (granted, that's
limited to central CA and some southern CA locations) has an area outside
the restrooms with a couch. This is ideal for me when breastfeeding. I'm
not squeamish about nursing in semi-public situations like that (kind of
tucked away, but clean and airy, and I can still chat with my husband while
I nurse), but I don't think I'd do it in, say, the center court of the mall
on a busy day.
In most places you can find SOMEthing like this, although not always this
nice. Our Wal-Mart has a separate room for layaway, with restrooms coming
off it, and it has a few benches in it. If I were to try to nurse in
Wal-Mart, I'd probably sit there and do it. (Usually, though, I admit that
if the baby got hungry in a place like this I'd give him his pacifier till
we got to the car. Disclaimer: This did not in any way inhibit his desire or
ability to nurse; he nursed happily and well for a year).
The fact that Wal-Mart would tell a woman she had to leave rather than nurse
on the premises is rather odd. Wal-Mart seems to go in for the whole family
values thing pretty heavily. I wonder if she was not being discreet at all?
I could see how it would bother a business owner to have a woman just sit
down in a public area in his store, pull out a breast for all to see, and
proceed to use it for its intended purpose.
Rachel
Colette
> The fact that Wal-Mart would tell a woman she had to leave rather than nurse
> on the premises is rather odd. Wal-Mart seems to go in for the whole family
> values thing pretty heavily. I wonder if she was not being discreet at all?
> I could see how it would bother a business owner to have a woman just sit
> down in a public area in his store, pull out a breast for all to see, and
> proceed to use it for its intended purpose.
Once we have got things going, say, after the first few months, usually
nothing shows at all when I nurse, except to me and my baby. From anyone
else's perspective it's the back of my baby's head and a loose shirt
draped down by the face. Okay, it's true that for a very large breasted
woman it might be a little more difficult (I have been at most a D cup).
And with a toddler it's possible for them to latch off and look around
faster than the mother can cover up. It's happened to me. No biggie. I
just pulled my shirt back down if it didn't fall down on its own.
If you want to hide to nurse, that's your peragative. Doesn't bother me
one bit if that's what you prefer. However, many of the so-called
'designated nursing areas' I've seen are uncomfortable, and sometimes
dirty. Then there are some nice secluded sitting areas that I have
gladly nursed in, especially during the more distractable ages (say, 4-
8 months) when every little sound causes their little latched-on heads
to turn: ouch!
I never used a pacifer, never even owned one. I had a very tentative
hold on my milk supply and in my case a pacifier probably would have
hurt breastfeeding. So when my kids were little babies I really did need
to nurse right away. If anyone ever asked me to leave, I would really,
honestly laugh at them. No one has.
Breastfeeding is feeding and nurturing a baby. People who associate sex
with nursing have a problem that they need to deal with themselves. I
don't see bottlefeeding moms shrouding themselves in secrecy. I say
wherever a baby could be bottlefed, a baby could be breastfed and
vice-versa.
--
Colette, mom to 2 beautiful homebirthed children
The remarkable 4 year old Amy
and the magnificent 2 year old Jake
Come visit my updated site!
Home Birth and Midwives Support Network for Illinois
http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/5510
Jessica Leng
is the last straw.
Colette <lnrp...@ripco.com> wrote in message
news:37128F...@ripco.com...
The Aimster
I'll say it again in Layman's terms :
I cannot believe someone asked this lady to leave while BF'ing.....
I asked if there was a law where public BF'ing could be banned in certain
stores.
And I AM planning on BF'ing...and that I probably would prefer to go
somewhere discreet. I said a "bathroom or dressing room with a bench" where
myself and baby would not be distracted. I am modest BUT that does not mean
I am ASHAMED to breastfeed or whatever you got out of that.
And secondly...how can I know where the best places to go and BF if I have
NEVER BF before?...I guess I will learn as I go...you know some of us do
things like that, learning by trial and error.
Please read postings carefully...
Thank you,
--
~Amy Gossett
CoolP...@worldnet.att.net
http://home.att.net/~coolpotter/pottery/potsx.html
AOL Instant Messenger: BADBEAMER
Located in "Peachy" Albany, Georgia alongside the Flint River.
"Television does not make a perfectly sane man go out and kill 5
people. Not even "must see TV"."----Fox Mulder, The Xfiles
Jessica Leng wrote in message <3713...@news1.jps.net>...
Steel Magnolia
>Why don't you post the address of the Walmart
>so some nice ladies can organize a nurse in
>and call the local media. :-)
>Nurse-in, nurse-in, nurse-in! Where's the store?
--
OO! OO!! Can I come?
Doesn't necessarily have to be *just* that Wal-Mart either...
heh heh
Steel Magnolia
who's probably one of, like, *3* BF moms in this whole dinky town, but
ready for a nurse-in anyway <snort>
OT: Is Vermont still Wal-Mart-less? I'd heard a rumor a few years back
that they were the only state that didn't have a WM. RESIST I SAY,
RESIST!!
Colette
each law, go here http://www.lalecheleague.org/LawBills.html There
appears to be no legislation in Georgia at this time.
However, read this exerpt from the page explaining the legal theory
behind breastfeeding in public:
===========begin quoted material============
BREASTFEEDING IN PUBLIC
Mothers have a right to breastfeed where they have a right to be with
their baby. After all, how can someone tell a mother how to feed her
baby? Then why do we have legislation? To clarify that right, in the
hopes that it will stop the social ostracism that can take place when
women breastfeed in public. Underlying this, is the goal to increase the
rates and duration of breastfeeding recognizing that this is an
important health choice that must be encouraged.
It is important to remember that women have a right to breastfeed in
public whether there is a law or not. The purpose of legislation is NOT
to legalize it, but to clarify the fact the fact that women have the
right to breastfeed in public, or that it is not a criminal offense,
such as indecent exposure. Thus, if you are in a state that does not
have legislation, you still have the right to feed your baby where you
go.
Some of the legislation has merely exempted breastfeeding from the
criminal statutes, such as making it perfectly clear that breastfeeding
is not indecent exposure. Other states have gone further and clearly set
forth that a woman has a right to breastfeed any place she has the right
to be. Some of the laws provide mothers with legal recourse if they are
told to stop breastfeeding. The strongest law in the nation was enacted
by New York, which created a right to breastfeed as one of a person's
civil rights.
Not only have states enacted legislation, but various cities and
counties have amended ordinances, or enacted laws that protect
breastfeeding. One of the most notable is the City of Philadelphia,
which submitted an ordinance in 1996 that not only prohibited
discriminating against breastfeeding mothers, but also prohibited
segregating breastfeeding mothers. In response to other states
considering allowing establishments to tell mothers where they can
breastfeed, they enacted this law to make it clear that such acts are
segregation.
===========end quoted material=============
The benches in changing rooms are usually not very comfortable for
nursing. Often bathrooms are just stalls/toilets and sinks, and of
course there's the smell factor. A much better option in a department
stores is usually to go to the furniture department and try out a nice
couch or recliner. "But how can I know if I would even consdier buyin
this if I didn't try to nurse in it? I'm going to be doing a lot of that
for many months to come <beautific smile."
towery
>I could see how it would bother a business owner to have a woman just sit
>down in a public area in his store, pull out a breast for all to see, and
>proceed to use it for its intended purpose.
I was wondering the samething...I have on several occations seen women
nursing there babies most of which no one knows what they are doing but I
have seen women just whip out there boob for all to see and not even use a
security blanket to cover themselves.
I know though that most women do cover themselves well enough to breastfeed
anywhere...and only those who also breastfeed or who have been around
breastfeeding even have an idea of what the women is doing...if you are good
at it no one should even know what you are doing it will look like your
child is just simply covered up.
I remember once when I was about 13 years old...my mom was breastfeeding my
baby sister and a women came up to say something about having a little baby
and the women proceded to pull back the blanket to see my mom breastfeeding
a newborn...that lady looked quite suprized..I bet she won't do that
again...but that goes to show you that most people are clueless to the fact
that breastfeeding is what is going on under that blanket...
I am a firm believer that women should be allowed to breastfeed in
public...as long as it is done so that she is covered there should be no
problem.
Best Wishes,
Castle
Tolleman and Rachel wrote in message <37127...@news.sierratel.com>...
>
>Heidi Carr wrote in message ...
>>Why should you go to the bathroom to feed your baby? Would you eat your
>>meal in a public restroom? I think not! I can hardly stand to even use
>>most restrooms for what they are intended for because of the shape most of
>>them are in. I certainly wouldn't want to subject my baby to those germs
>>etc., especially when eating.
>
>
>I love JCPenney for this. Every JCPenney's I've been in (granted, that's
>limited to central CA and some southern CA locations) has an area outside
>the restrooms with a couch. This is ideal for me when breastfeeding. I'm
>not squeamish about nursing in semi-public situations like that (kind of
>tucked away, but clean and airy, and I can still chat with my husband while
>I nurse), but I don't think I'd do it in, say, the center court of the mall
>on a busy day.
>
>In most places you can find SOMEthing like this, although not always this
>nice. Our Wal-Mart has a separate room for layaway, with restrooms coming
>off it, and it has a few benches in it. If I were to try to nurse in
>Wal-Mart, I'd probably sit there and do it. (Usually, though, I admit that
>if the baby got hungry in a place like this I'd give him his pacifier till
>we got to the car. Disclaimer: This did not in any way inhibit his desire
or
>ability to nurse; he nursed happily and well for a year).
>
>The fact that Wal-Mart would tell a woman she had to leave rather than
nurse
>on the premises is rather odd. Wal-Mart seems to go in for the whole
family
>values thing pretty heavily. I wonder if she was not being discreet at all?
>I could see how it would bother a business owner to have a woman just sit
>down in a public area in his store, pull out a breast for all to see, and
>proceed to use it for its intended purpose.
>
>Rachel
>
>
>
>
Colette
>
> >I wonder if she was not being discreet at all?
> >I could see how it would bother a business owner to have a woman just sit
> >down in a public area in his store, pull out a breast for all to see, and
> >proceed to use it for its intended purpose.
>
> I was wondering the samething...I have on several occations seen women
> nursing there babies most of which no one knows what they are doing but I
> have seen women just whip out there boob for all to see and not even use a
> security blanket to cover themselves.
> I know though that most women do cover themselves well enough to breastfeed
> anywhere...and only those who also breastfeed or who have been around
> breastfeeding even have an idea of what the women is doing...if you are good
> at it no one should even know what you are doing it will look like your
> child is just simply covered up.
> I remember once when I was about 13 years old...my mom was breastfeeding my
> baby sister and a women came up to say something about having a little baby
> and the women proceded to pull back the blanket to see my mom breastfeeding
> a newborn...that lady looked quite suprized..I bet she won't do that
> again...but that goes to show you that most people are clueless to the fact
> that breastfeeding is what is going on under that blanket...
> I am a firm believer that women should be allowed to breastfeed in
> public...as long as it is done so that she is covered there should be no
> problem.
Castle,
I understand you're not saying all women must use a blanket over the
baby, but I'd like to point out why I have never done this. Both of my
kids get heated up when nursing -- it's hard work! So I would never want
to cover them up. Plus I would be paranoid about a very young baby
getting enough fresh air for 20 or 30 minutes covered up. I know this
works for some, but in my two experiences it would not have been
practical.
I also have no problem with the whip-it-out method. I don't do that, nor
would I recommend it, but I don't think it's horrible, either. If the
same person were in an open-air market selling fruit on a National
Geographic movie you wouldn't think twice about the whip-it-out method,
would you? Why? Because breasts are for feeding babies! Some people have
a harder time latching on the baby. Maybe she forgot a blanket, is too
tired to get up out of her seat to turn away from people, or maybe she's
from a culture that has not warped the breast's function.
Ken & Andrea Mraz
I have to post! :).....I have been lurking for awhile, thought that I would
come out of the wood work like everyone else.
I think that this is ridiculous, to put it bluntly. If everyone would realize
what mammary glands are for....sheesh. (Oh, really I thought my breasts were
there for decoration.) :) We wouldn't have this problem would we? or rather,
that Wal place wouldn't have this problem.
Sorry, had to vent.
Andrea
The Aimster wrote:
> My DH was telling me about a lady who is suing Wal-mart bc they asked her to
> leave as she was BF'ing her baby. Isn't there are new law that passed in a
> majority of the states that says it is legal to BF in public? I thought
> there was. I plan of BF'ing but I would have gone in the dressing room or
> restroom.
>
> Just wondered what you guys thought of all of this....Am interested in
> hearing the outcome...
>
angela
Steel Magnolia <UnSp...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:23996-37...@newsd-133.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> Larry wrote:
>
> >Why don't you post the address of the Walmart
> >so some nice ladies can organize a nurse in
> >and call the local media. :-)
>
> >Nurse-in, nurse-in, nurse-in! Where's the store?
> --
>
> OO! OO!! Can I come?
>
> Doesn't necessarily have to be *just* that Wal-Mart either...
What I haven't seen anybody say yet is this:
Maybe that manager/security guard had a stick up his butt, and the store had
no such "policy". It's perfectly ordinary for employees to misunderstand or
misinterpret the rules of the business where they work, with the "best of
intentions".
Example: one day I watched a poor, distraught cashier at Fred Meyers keep
her mouth shut even though her customer, the man in line in front of me, was
permitting (read: ignoring) his screaming 3-yr old kid who was standing up
in the cart seat. The child fell out on his head on the tile-over-concrete
floor, snapping his head back all the way to his back. I couldn't catch the
kid in time because I was trying to settle my own baby, upset by the child's
constant screaming both before and after the fall. The father scooped the
kid up, dumped him back in the cart, and ignored him while he finished his
transaction. The cashier had a right, and a responsibility IMO, to call
security. But she didn't, because she *thought* she was forbidden by store
policies. I know this because I talked to the management about it later.
I have no idea if the child was all right. He wasn't bleeding, but he
landed on his forehead from 5 or 6 feet in the air. I was traumatized by it
for days. I'm sure the cashier was, too.
I made sure the management of the store helped the cashier understood what
the rules really were, so she wouldn't feel so powerless the next time. But
she *thought* she was following the rules.
--angela
Ymajc97
>meal in a public restroom?
I applaud this! It is just as gross for the babies to eat in a bathroom as it
would be for us! I don't even bring a drink in my own bathroom and it is so
clean in there!
Amy
mommy to C.J. (Christian James) born 7-1-97 by unnecessary c-section...
CathieArms
agree with you 100% on this issue! You took the words right out of my mouth!
snootchie
Any mother, can/should breastfeed her baby anywhere, anytime anyway. We are
talking about nourishment and comfort for the youngest and most fragile
here. There is not enough consumer pressure on the pro-breastfeeding side.
There is no feeling that breastfeeding women are an economic force to be
reckoned with. I have known only 2 women who breastfed beyond three months
(besides myself of course). That would indicate a rather small contingent
of women who breastfeed regularly and in public.
Melanie <m...@recombinant.com> wrote in message
news:7etope$go5$1...@news.ncal.verio.com...
Lpshafer
I agree with Colette. My daughters *hated* having their heads covered. I
usually lifted my shirt from the bottom so that most everything was hidden, but
latching on often necessitated a "flash" for those watching. I must admit that
by the time I weaned my second daughter I really didn't care whether anyone was
bothered by my nursing. I figured that breasts are for feeding babies and
anyone who was bothered just needed to grow up.
Ivy, mama to Martha (8/7/92), Molly (2/21/97) and ? (due 7/31/99)
Colette wrote:
<snip>
Daryl & Tina
The Aimster <coolp...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7etljo$mi1$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...
to
> leave as she was BF'ing her baby. Isn't there are new law that passed in
a
> majority of the states that says it is legal to BF in public? I thought
> there was. I plan of BF'ing but I would have gone in the dressing room or
> restroom.
>
> Just wondered what you guys thought of all of this....Am interested in
> hearing the outcome...
>
> --
>
> ~Amy Gossett
> CoolP...@worldnet.att.net
>
> http://home.att.net/~coolpotter/pottery/potsx.html
> AOL Instant Messenger: BADBEAMER
>
> Located in "Peachy" Albany, Georgia alongside the Flint River.
>
> "Television does not make a perfectly sane man go out and kill 5
> people. Not even "must see TV"."----Fox Mulder, The Xfiles
>
>
I heard about this happening at a Wal-mart in our area when my son was born
(16 months ago). Since then, I saw a lady discreetly nursing her baby in
the McDonald's at our Wal-mart. Nothing was ever said to her. One of our
state representatives has introduced a bill to our state legislature that
would allow nursing mothers to nurse in public without harrassment. I'm all
for it!
Rachel
>
>
> Why don't you post the address of the Walmart so some nice ladies can
> organize a nurse in and call the local media. :-)
>
Wow, a Nurse-in, what a brilliant idea!
Rache.
Michelle DeFelice
probably would have had to kick him where it counts just too
see how he liked being hurt. Poor little thing.
Kim
angela wrote:
>
> Steel Magnolia <UnSp...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:23996-37...@newsd-133.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> > Larry wrote:
> >
> > >Why don't you post the address of the Walmart
> > >so some nice ladies can organize a nurse in
> > >and call the local media. :-)
> >
Michelle DeFelice
with a toddler with one hand and nursing her baby in the
other at my sons t-ball game. I gave her the biggest smile
and thought my god how does she keep him latched. but then
my Dad turned to my Stepmom and said "how come you wont do
that to me?" To that I just cringed. Its attitudes like
that which make everyone associate breasts with sex. Im
sure these men who are sickened by seeing the breast of a
nursing mom would feel a lot different if they saw Pamela
Anderson with a silicone breast sticking out in there face.
I hate Walmart anyway, I find them to be extremely rude to
me lately and Ive chosen to shop elsewhere!
rc
you all really have these kind of problems with breastfeeding in public? I
have been doing this on and off for almost 10 years now and have never been
confronted about it--even in Wal-Mart. : ) (seriously, I have nursed in
Wal-Mart)
Maybe it's just where I live? I don't know. It IS NOT that I don't
believe these reports--please do not misunderstand me. It is just so
contrary to my personal experiences. The other thing is that in my
experience, the people most easily "offended" by nursing in public are the
ones who are clueless that that is what I am doing! I have actually had a
few people come over to "see the baby" or bring thier todlers up to me
while I was nursing and realize it at the last minute--that that was what I
was doing!
Anyway...just curious, maybe it is regional or I have been very fortunate
in not having to deal with this.
Rebecca
Oh, I live near Washington, D.C.
& I nurse in the sanctuary at church too! If I go to the nursery how will
I hear the sermon? : )
Melanie <m...@recombinant.com> wrote in article
<7etope$go5$1...@news.ncal.verio.com>...
> I've heard of several women being asked to leave while breastfeeding at
> Wal-Mart. The woman I think you are talking about was nursing on a bench
> next to the dressing rooms. That part of the store was virtually empty.
An
> employee (I think a security guard) told her to take it into the bathroom
or
> leave. When she first lodged a complaint, representatives of Wal-Mart
said
> they would give her special permission to nurse in their stores. The
woman
> thought this was not quite good enough and decided to sue. IMHO, any
> private business should be allowed to set their own BF policy. *BUT* as
> consumers with a voice, we can choose not to patronize those
establishments
> and shop where BF is welcomed and encouraged (Like Target :-)).
> Just my $.02
> Melanie
>
> The Aimster wrote in message <7etljo$mi1$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
ElusivHigh
>Oh, I live near Washington, D.C.
> & I nurse in the sanctuary at church too! If I go to the nursery how will
>I hear the sermon? : )
That's funny about the church I used to attend. They make a lot of not missing
a service -- but they want you to leave the sanctuary while you're nursing. In
fact, going just outside doesn't work. You'd better go downstairs to the
nursery (and man do I mean *downstairs* -- it's in the basement.) I thought
hearing everything was supposed to be important? Not as important as offending
people, I guess... but you know, I find their entire view of the situation
*far* more offensive!
----
It's my Difference, my Hurt, that makes you whole...
...searching for Serenity, in the Halls of Discontent;
pieces of my Sanity,
my Will,
my Hope --
have left.
I don't understand where this all began.
Are you my enemy?
My lover?
My ruin?
angela
the store, despite a pacifier in his mouth. The father was angry, clearly,
or embarrassed. I *did* ask him to settle the kid down because he was
making *my* baby scream, and he ignored *me*. That was when the kid stood
up. The man had his back to me. I half-shouted "Sit!" to the kid - too
late, of course - and anyway, after he finished his transaction he left the
store damn quick. Another lady followed him out, but he was simply *gone*.
I wasn't the only witness, and *none* of us thought we had a right to
interfere with how this guy treated his kid.
I just felt so badly for the kid. Because if the father could ignore an
obviously injurious fall, he could ignore anything - or quite possibly
inflict anything - and the poor kid was helpless. I had nightmares for
days.
--angela
Michelle DeFelice <blo...@TTLC.NET> wrote in message
news:3713126B...@TTLC.NET...
Pamela A. O'Keefe
>BF needs to be legislated.
I disagree. (Circle gets the square. ;-))
No, seriously. Bf'ing doesn't need to be legislated. People just need
to use their God-given brains to figure out the difference between
bf'ing and indecent exposure.
Later,
Pam
Daryl & Tina
Pamela A. O'Keefe <pam...@pol.org> wrote in message
news:msg295043.thr...@pol.org...
We currently have a state representative that has introduced a bill into our
state legislature. This bill excludes breastfeeding women from the "public
indecency" law.
Goraidders
>nursery (and man do I mean *downstairs* -- it's in the basement.) I thought
>hearing everything was supposed to be important? Not as important as
>offending
>people, I guess... but you know, I find their entire view of the situation
>*far* more offensive!
I would have to agree. Thankfully we have a nursing area that I can use for
privacy and still be able to listen. Or if I wanted I could feed in the main
area, but I doubt I do that as the nursing area is so convenient.
Pamela A. O'Keefe
>I agree with Colette. My daughters *hated* having their heads covered.
> I
>usually lifted my shirt from the bottom so that most everything was
>hidden, but
>latching on often necessitated a "flash" for those watching. I must
>admit that
>by the time I weaned my second daughter I really didn't care whether
>anyone was
>bothered by my nursing. I figured that breasts are for feeding babies
>and
>anyone who was bothered just needed to grow up.
Yep. I freaked out my MIL, and half the employees of a Pamida
(*really* small town version of a Wal-mart/ K-mart) when I sat down and
nursed. ::sigh:: Boy did the MIL and I get into a row over that.
As far as covering up, my daughter would actually pull the blanket down
over herself, but my sons *hated* it. If I forced it, they'd either
not nurse at all, or get totally overheated. Not worth it.
Later,
Pam
PKM
Walmart. I assume that if someone thought I was hurting their image or
disturbing someone, that I would have been asked to stop. (I nursed
outside, not because I didn't want to inside, but because there was more
room and fresh air).
A neat/funny story about nursing in church. I have no problems nursing in
the sanctuary of our church and the minister is supportive - doesn't hurt
that my minister is a woman who also bf'd. Anyway, once my husband made
the statement that I nursed in church "in front of God and everyone else."
I said - Who better?
pk
rc <rc...@sprintmail.com> wrote in article
<01be84a9$d3296f00$5dd9bfa8@default>...
> Ok. I will accept it if the concensus is that I am "missing" it. But do
> you all really have these kind of problems with breastfeeding in public?
I
> have been doing this on and off for almost 10 years now and have never
been
> confronted about it--even in Wal-Mart. : ) (seriously, I have nursed
in
snip
> Rebecca
>
> Oh, I live near Washington, D.C.
> & I nurse in the sanctuary at church too! If I go to the nursery how
will
> I hear the sermon? : )
>
>
snip
Julia Ream
heard it on NPR (national public radio) that two women were walking the
aisles at Walmart while nursing, and were thrown out by security. The two
women are now suing wal mart.
The only experience I've had with seeing a woman breastfeed in public was at
a bridal shower. The baby was pretty new, and the mom sat way in the back
and she had this bib like thing that went over her blouse that covered her
up, but it looked like it made a little tent for the baby. At first, all
the women were getting pissy that she wasn't sharing her baby with
everyone...but really, I think she was trying to find some peace and quiet
for the baby to nurse, as well as keep the youngster away from curious hands
(and germs). I really appreciated her tact....she did a really great job at
not being at all uncomfortable, while not making anyone else
uncomfortable...AND she still got to enjoy the shower!
I don't know what that bib type thing was...but my mother saw it and thought
it was the neatest thing! She was never encouraged to breastfeed, and it
was actually supposed to be a bad thing to do back then (yeah, and smoking
while pregnant was okay!). So, my mom thinks it's pretty neat that there
are things out there (and people out there) that can make breastfeeding
easier than popping a bottle out of a bag.
Julia Ream
Heather Shafer
In my town I heard of a woman being asked to nurse her baby somewhere
else while she was visiting a museum. In my opinion, anywhere a mother
is bottlefeeding a baby a woman should be allowed to breastfeed her
baby. And Certainly not in the bathroom!! Ughhh!! I tried that when my
son was very tiny, but gave that up after attending Laleche League
meetings. I think wherever this lawsuit is going on there should be a
group of breastfeeding women having a "nurse in" (or whatever you call
that) as someone mentioned in their post.
Heather, mom to Garrett 12-24-96, breastfed for 13 mos.,
RNR
In article <23996-37...@newsd-133.iap.bryant.webtv.net>, UnSp...@webtv.net
(Steel Magnolia) wrote:
>Steel Magnolia
>who's probably one of, like, *3* BF moms in this whole dinky town, but
>ready for a nurse-in anyway <snort>
Well, that's you and me and who else? We could go to the one on 81st and
Lewis.
Regards,
Ranee
"The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth vengeance; he shall
wash his feet in the blood of the wicked."
--Psalms, Ch.58, V.10
RNR
----------
In article <16zQ2.1421$Z33....@news7.ispnews.com>, "angela"
<cho...@theglobe.com> wrote:
>What I haven't seen anybody say yet is this:
>
>Maybe that manager/security guard had a stick up his butt, and the store had
>no such "policy". It's perfectly ordinary for employees to misunderstand or
>misinterpret the rules of the business where they work, with the "best of
>intentions".
DH pointed out that if it hadn't been store policy, the store wouldn't have
offered her special priveleges to keep her quiet.
Steel Magnolia
>Steel Magnolia
>who's probably one of, like, *3* BF moms in this
>whole dinky town, but ready for a nurse-in
>anyway <snort>
Then Ranee wrote:
> Well, that's you and me and who else? We
>could go to the one on 81st and Lewis.
> Regards,
> Ranee
Hi there! Yep, good idea heh heh. I have a friend due May
3rd...that's 3!! LOL
I think we (as in *all* of us) should *seriously* consider this if
Wal-Mart doesn't make good. BF moms UNITE!!! :)
Steel Magnolia
(feeling particularly patriotic today)
LMSCULLY88
infants and that should not be deemed as "dirty" or "sexual". However, I
breastfed my little girl without ever making anyone feel uncomfortable, because
I was always conscience of being covered up and not exposing myself. Keep in
mind that I am VERY busty and this is hard to do when you have large breasts.
I just believe that breastfeeding can be done in a tasteful manor anytime,
anywhere. How would you like to be told that no matter how good your table
manners are, you must go in the public bathroom to eat your lunch.....yuk.
Lana Scully ---------<mommy to Maddie 15 mos.>
Round Rock, TX
Red Sonja
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/living/HealthyWoman/healthywoman.html
I just forwarded it to my LLL group leader saying "I'd like to see
someone at the WalMart here tell me to go nurse in the bathroom!" It
was sort of appropriate because I just ran into her at Walmart a few
days before I sent it to her, and at the time I first saw her in there
Sean was nursing in the sling. I've nursed him in WalMart countless
times in his 14 weeks of life and never had anyone look twice, let
alone try to send me to the restroom. In fact, one employee at a more
distant WalMart, that I visit on ocassion because a friend of mine
works there, commented on how handy the sling was to nurse in, and
still leave both hands free. I had just gotten Sean latched on, while
standing by the dressing rooms waiting for my friend to answer me
having her paged.
cmuhe...@webtv.net (Heather Shafer) sayeth thusly:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sonja M. Cannon in Myrtle Beach, SC USA
SPAMTRAPPED! Email: redsonja at bigfoot dot com
Red Sonja
>I don't know what that bib type thing was...but my mother saw it and thought
>it was the neatest thing! She was never encouraged to breastfeed, and it
>was actually supposed to be a bad thing to do back then (yeah, and smoking
>while pregnant was okay!). So, my mom thinks it's pretty neat that there
>are things out there (and people out there) that can make breastfeeding
>easier than popping a bottle out of a bag.
>
>Julia Ream
>
It sounds like a "nursing shawl." And would you believe, they sell
them at WalMart!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sonja in Myrtle Beach, SC USA
Mom to Samuel Alexander, 3/16/95
m/c blighted ovum at 10 weeks lmp 2/22/98
And announcing Sean Thomas, born 1/6/99!!!!
EdelBarb
>in
>mind that I am VERY busty and this is hard to do when you have large breasts.
>
When I nursed I was careful also, but what about when they are nursing and
suddenly stop, pull away, and sort of arch and look behind their back, smiling
to see what is going on behind them? That could leave a mom exposed without
intending to.......it didn't happen a lot, but it was funny. They aren't
always done when they do this, but sometimes and sometimes they do it when they
are done. Usually my shirt would just fall down, covering the breast, but it
is a possible embarassing situation. My point is that even though you try to be
decent and careful, accidents do happen. Oh well......
angela
EdelBarb <edel...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990415085553...@ng112.aol.com...
> >I was always conscience of being covered up and not exposing myself.
Keep
> >in
> >mind that I am VERY busty and this is hard to do when you have large
breasts.
> >
>
> When I nursed I was careful also, but what about when they are nursing and
> suddenly stop, pull away, and sort of arch and look behind their back,
smiling
> to see what is going on behind them? That could leave a mom exposed
without
It does happen, of course. It's happened to me - in a public place, of
course, where there were lots of distractions going on, and my daughter
wanted to see all of them despite being hungry. BUT I figured, if anybody
saw anything, they would also see that I was struggling with the kid, and
hoped they'd have compassion rather than be offended. At any rate, nobody
ever came up to me and said anything negative (or positive) so it must have
been okay.
However, I live in the greater Seattle area, and it's a pretty liberal area
here, both politically and socially. It's "politically acceptable" to wear
Birkenstocks, shorts, a tank-top you can breastfeed in, and not shave any
part of your body. You might get some glances, but nobody's going to freak
out at you. I understand that other areas of my country and the world will
not be this accepting.
--angela
Pamela A. O'Keefe
>However, I live in the greater Seattle area, and it's a pretty liberal
>area
>here, both politically and socially. It's "politically acceptable" to
>wear
>Birkenstocks, shorts, a tank-top you can breastfeed in, and not shave
>any
>part of your body. You might get some glances, but nobody's going to
>freak
>out at you. I understand that other areas of my country and the world
>will
>not be this accepting.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't in, at one point, in Hong Kong, or
do I have you confused w/ someone else?
Later,
Pam
angela
You must be thinking of somebody else. I've never been to Hong Kong. Though
I wouldn't mind visiting. :)
--angela
Nyoka Koleda
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/HealthyWoman/healthywoman.html
Also:
http://members.aol.com/Momsdotnet/Page1.html
Nyoka
(mom to Trevor (b 8/8/95)
and Lauren 10/11/98
7# 2oz at birth
8# 10oz at 1mo
10# 3oz at 2 mos)
(reply to wannabelc at mediaone dot net)
Julia Ream
Red Sonja wrote in message <371e32a9...@news.sccoast.net>...
>"Julia Ream" <Julia...@worldnet.att.net> sayeth thusly:
>
>
>>I don't know what that bib type thing was...but my mother saw it and
thought
>>it was the neatest thing! She was never encouraged to breastfeed, and it
>>was actually supposed to be a bad thing to do back then (yeah, and smoking
>>while pregnant was okay!). So, my mom thinks it's pretty neat that there
>>are things out there (and people out there) that can make breastfeeding
>>easier than popping a bottle out of a bag.
>>
>>Julia Ream
>>
>
>It sounds like a "nursing shawl." And would you believe, they sell
>them at WalMart!
>
Heee Heee! that's quite funny!
Julia Ream
Tracybob1
<hm_...@nospam.donet.com> writes:
>Why should you go to the bathroom to feed your baby? Would you eat your
>meal in a public restroom? I think not!
No, but I wouldn't eat on a bench outside the Wal-Mart dressing room, either.
:-P
Tracy
--
My address is a spam block... remove the word "remove" to email me :-)
judy }|{
IS a group for discussion, I feel the need to give my opinion, even
though it is different than the general consensus of this thread.
I do not agree with the woman who is suing Walmart for asking her to not
breastfeed so publicly, and I do not feel that it is something that is
necessary to do in public. In other words, I'm on Walmart's side.
For one thing, in an ideal world, yes, the breast is there for the sole
purpose of feeding a child, and should be looked upon as a functional
part of the body. However, in the real world, at least in the U.S.,
it's also viewed as a symbol of eroticism, and is thought of as being
related to sex. That's just the way it is, and no matter how much you
try to convince yourself that people are liberal enough to view it as
purely functional, there are going to be people who are not in that mind
frame. For example, do you really expect an adolescent boy to see a
woman's breast and be that adult about it? Or many men, for that
matter. How about it you were that boy's mother, or man's wife, or even
that man's daughter? A while back, there was a post about a woman who's
16 son got aroused by seeing her breastfeed a baby, and that woman got
totally chastised for doing it in front of him. Why isn't that ok, if
it's ok to do it in Walmart?
Many people, including women, are uncomfortable with other people's
nudity, regardless of how necessary the nudity is. Many of these posts
have said it themselves- that people have come up to them not knowing
they are breast feeding and then being obviously embarrassed when they
find out. I think if there's one breastfeeding woman, and ten
uncomfortable customers, it's in Walmart's best interest to act on
behalf of the ten uncomfortable customers.
Also, if it should be looked upon as a natural and necessary thing, then
shouldn't it be ok for a man to pee in public if there are no facilities
around? For example, from ages 10 to 16 I played softball for the
community league, and at our field there were no bathrooms whatsoever.
No porta-potties, nothing. So let's say a man has to go to the
bathroom, should he be allowed to just walk over to a tree and take a
wiz? In the company of 2 girls softball teams? Even if he can be
discreet? After all, it IS just as natural and necessary as
breastfeeding (I'd even argue more necessary and natural, but that's not
the point), and it IS a public place. What's the difference?
judy }|{
Any way, many have also made the point that we wouldn't eat our meals
in a bathroom, so why should babies? Well, for one thing, we eat our
meals off of plates and use utensils, and our food 'touches' the air the
whole time it's on our plate. But babies who are breastfeeding are
getting their food from a breast, which is up to the mother to keep
sanitary. And, their food goes directly from breast into mouth, no
lingering in the germ-ridden bathroom air. I don't think it poses any
risk as far as germs are concerned to feed a baby in the bathroom.
Also, if the bathroom is too dirty, then THAT should be the complaint
with Walmart. And since most people drive to Walmart, there's always
the perfectly good option of doing it in the car. Why is it such a big
deal to just comply?? Sure it may be more convenient to just do it
right there in the store, but that doesn't mean that it therefore should
be a right. Life isn't always fair to everybody, some things we just
have to accept. I don't think it's fair to force people to witness
something they don't want to see. And I certainly don't think that the
privelage of breastfeeding Walart is worth whatever the amount she is
suing for. And for those who say the sole function of the breast is
for feeding a baby, have you never been pleased with the way you look in
a certain outfit that maybe shows off a little cleavage? When your
husband/lover first discovered them, did you slap his hand away and get
offended that he was aroused? Why do you wear a bra? To keep from
sagging? Who cares what they look like- they're not for show anyway,
right? Would you prefer to walk around in a society where women are
topless? A comparison was made that those cultures you see in National
Geographic don't think twice about a woman's breasts, so why should we?
This is such an bad comparisson, because there are too many differeces
to draw valid parallels.
It's not fair to send mixed messages, and while some people ARE smart
enough to determine what's sexy and what's not, it's not, as I said
before, the REAL world. As long as women are posing for Playboy, as
long as women are wearing sexy lingerie, as long as women are
discovering their sex appeal, it's going to be viewed partially as a
sexual thing. We can't force the world to be ideal.
And lastly, I think the woman is just sue-happy, and just wants
something to crow about. This is the thing that I don't think society
should tolerate.
I know my opinions are bold, but I really believe in them, and I know
I'm not the only one, although I may be the only one here to speak up
about it. Before you slam me with flames, try to respond to what I
SAID, and not ME.
And if you got this far, thanks for your attention!
For the record, I DO plan on breastfeeding, but see no reason to make
other's uncomfortable in the process. I wouldn't go to a friend's
dinner party and just do it in the middle of the living room amidst
everyone. That would be rude, and therefore I wouldn't do it in the
middle of Walmart.
And as for the idea of staging a "nurse-in", I think that's just
childish.
(donning flame-guard attire...)
-Judy
CathieArms
First of all, let me state that I am a HUGE proponent of breastfeeding. I
think that there is absolutely nothing wrong with breastfeeding in
public...EVER. I breastfed my daughter everywhere I went.
At the same time, however, I think that those who do breastfeed should be
considerate of those around you. I'm not saying cover with a blanket...I
couldn't do that most of the time because my daughter would suffocate. What
*I* did was wear big, loose tops. I actually had to physically pull my top up,
but the rest of it would flow back down, modestly covering the other side. I
placed a blanket over my midsection to ensure it was covered, and pulled the
rest of my blouse (on my nursing side) down such that the only thing that
showed was the baby's face...no visible breast. My husband said that nobody
would guess I was nursing.
I think, as nursing moms, we should try to be considerate to the feelings of
others and try to be as discreet as possible. But, I don't think that means
that we should be "banned" to the ladies room to nurse.
We can't change the world overnight, but if we are discreet and stand up for
what we believe in, we can begin to erode at the foundation.
Cathie
Mom to Amber (3)
Linda Bowerman
Judy-
I was much more conservative in my views before I started nursing. I
expect your views will change once you get used to breastfeeding. Linda
P.S. I have breastfed in Wal Mart plenty of times, and no one has ever said
a word.
RNR
----------
In article <16365-37...@newsd-153.iap.bryant.webtv.net>, saf...@webtv.net
(judy }|{) wrote:
(snip)
>For one thing, in an ideal world, yes, the breast is there for the sole
>purpose of feeding a child, and should be looked upon as a functional
>part of the body. However, in the real world, at least in the U.S.,
>it's also viewed as a symbol of eroticism, and is thought of as being
>related to sex. That's just the way it is, and no matter how much you
>try to convince yourself that people are liberal enough to view it as
>purely functional, there are going to be people who are not in that mind
>frame. For example, do you really expect an adolescent boy to see a
>woman's breast and be that adult about it? Or many men, for that
>matter. How about it you were that boy's mother, or man's wife, or even
>that man's daughter?
Not necessarily, no, depends on the person. But what _nobody_ was being
exposed to (the only person who saw was the security guard) was her breast, just
the sight of her with a baby under her shirt (IIRC), sitting down on a bench.
A while back, there was a post about a woman who's
>16 son got aroused by seeing her breastfeed a baby, and that woman got
>totally chastised for doing it in front of him.
Actually, she was chastised for being a troll. We all assumed it was a one
handed typer who was looking for erotic stories.
Why isn't that ok, if
>it's ok to do it in Walmart?
If she pulled out her naked breast and did it, yes, I would agree. But most
people (I won't say all, although I've never seen the other) breastfeed without
showing anything. When I breastfeed, like at Rich's work party, most people
don't even know that I am doing it, they think the baby is napping. When they
ask if he's asleep, I respond that he's eating, and they seem surprised.
(snip)
>Also, if it should be looked upon as a natural and necessary thing, then
>shouldn't it be ok for a man to pee in public if there are no facilities
>around? For example, from ages 10 to 16 I played softball for the
>community league, and at our field there were no bathrooms whatsoever.
>No porta-potties, nothing. So let's say a man has to go to the
>bathroom, should he be allowed to just walk over to a tree and take a
>wiz? In the company of 2 girls softball teams? Even if he can be
>discreet? After all, it IS just as natural and necessary as
>breastfeeding (I'd even argue more necessary and natural, but that's not
>the point), and it IS a public place. What's the difference?
>
Urinating and eating are very different things. Vegetarians might be
offended by the sight of someone eating meat, does that mean we should ban
public steakhouses? Also, in the case of the peeing men, I'd say, yes, go ahead
and pee behind a tree. As it is a _bathroom_ activity, it isn't degrading to do
it elsewhere. Since feeding one's baby is not only natural and necessary, but
_not_ gross, dirty or sexual, it _is_ degrading to be told to do it elsewhere.
I am not averse to saying that the breast shouldn't be exposed, but sending
nursing mothers away is assinine. If a bottle can be there, which is artificial
and less adequate, the nursing mother can be there.
I thin kthe reason people are uncomfortable with seeing a woman breastfeed
is because it forces them to realize that _they_ are sexualizing nursing and
that makes _them_ feel dirty, gross, etc. Fault lies with the observer, not the
mother.
Regards,
Ranee
As a wise person once said:
When the facts are on your side, argue the facts.
When the law is on your side, argue the law.
When neither is on your side, bang the table and insult your opponents.
Hamilton
saf...@webtv.net (judy }|{) wrote:
> I pressed "send" too early... sorry, I still have points to make...
>
> Any way, many have also made the point that we wouldn't eat our meals
> in a bathroom, so why should babies? Well, for one thing, we eat our
> meals off of plates and use utensils, and our food 'touches' the air the
> whole time it's on our plate. But babies who are breastfeeding are
> getting their food from a breast, which is up to the mother to keep
> sanitary. And, their food goes directly from breast into mouth, no
> lingering in the germ-ridden bathroom air. I don't think it poses any
> risk as far as germs are concerned to feed a baby in the bathroom.
> Also, if the bathroom is too dirty, then THAT should be the complaint
> with Walmart. And since most people drive to Walmart, there's always
> the perfectly good option of doing it in the car. Why is it such a big
> deal to just comply??
Where exactly do you think a breast feeding woman should sit in a
bathroom to feed her baby? The toilets have no seat lids -- And of course
it is pretty rude to occupy a stall for half an hour when there are
people who might wish to use the toilet for its intended purpose.
There is no place to nurse a baby in a typical public bathroom. Some
stores have 'lounges' with couches etc -- and when they do, that is
generally where Moms go to feed their babies.
>
> I know my opinions are bold, but I really believe in them,
The fervor of your prejudice does not give it special status in
the world.
Rachel & Bill
>
> And since most people drive to Walmart, there's always
this is not an option in many situations - summer in the south, winter
in the north, if you took the bus/cab to walmart.... we live in texas,
and there have already been 80+ degree days, where it is much hotter in
the car.
also, generally a screaming hungry baby attracts more attention than a
breastfeeding one.
> Sure it may be more convenient to just do it
> right there in the store, but that doesn't mean that it therefore should
> be a right. Life isn't always fair to everybody, some things we just
> have to accept. I don't think it's fair to force people to witness
> something they don't want to see.
first of all, every woman i have seen breastfeeding has been very
discrete, and i have never seen breasts shown in public. and i have
breastfed all over the place.
secondly, check out http://www.lalecheleague.org/LawBills.html for laws
that protect the legal right of women to breastfeed in public. most
women find a secluded spot so the baby won't be distracted. if you
don't want to see it, walk away.
> It's not fair to send mixed messages, and while some people ARE smart
> enough to determine what's sexy and what's not, it's not, as I said
> before, the REAL world. As long as women are posing for Playboy, as
> long as women are wearing sexy lingerie, as long as women are
> discovering their sex appeal, it's going to be viewed partially as a
> sexual thing. We can't force the world to be ideal.
agreed. but have you ever seen a woman bf in public???? there is
rarely, if ever, breast exposed except during latch-on. and most women
turn away or use a sling or t-shirt to cover any exposed breast or nipple.
> For the record, I DO plan on breastfeeding, but see no reason to make
> other's uncomfortable in the process. I wouldn't go to a friend's
> dinner party and just do it in the middle of the living room amidst
> everyone. That would be rude, and therefore I wouldn't do it in the
> middle of Walmart.
at first, i felt similarly. but then i decided to tell friends that
mackenzie does not eat from a bottle, she nurses. if that is a problem,
we don't go to those people's houses. and i'll do whatever i want at my
house, although i am *much* more discrete if we have company.
however, i was always convinced i'd bf in public, and not in a restroom.
i don't like hanging out in bathrooms, and i like to have clean hands
when i latch on my daughter. also, it isn't comfortable, and i can't
chat with whomever i am out with. finally, if i don't feed my daughter
when she's hungry, she gets upset. even my conservative in-laws say
they'd rather see me feed her in the restraunt than have her cry.
> And as for the idea of staging a "nurse-in", I think that's just
> childish.
i disagree. it's like a march. it is a way to draw attention to a problem.
rachel
--
Rachel, sah, AP mom to Mackenzie Leigh (may 3, '98)
- she's now officially a toddler!
bi...@flash.net http://www.flash.net/~bira (updated 2/99)
RNR
----------
>and i'll do whatever i want at my
>house, although i am *much* more discrete if we have company.
I am too, although, for me, that means putting on a shirt! I never show any
skin when we're in front of other people, but at home, it's my space.
Michelle Haines
On 17 Apr 1999, CathieArms wrote:
> couldn't do that most of the time because my daughter would suffocate.
> What *I* did was wear big, loose tops. I actually had to physically
> pull my top up, but the rest of it would flow back down, modestly
> covering the other side.
I've foudn nursing shirts to be really useful for that, too. It has the
flap button on one side, then a vertical opening underneath. Undo the
flap, reach through the opening, open up the nursing bra, plug baby in,
and then the opening covers most everything and the flap covers up the
rest, really. I also try to keep a blanket at the ready and tucked aroudn
the baby for when I'm undoing/doing up all the contraptions, or if I'm
wearing a button down shirt or whatever. I tend to cover up more securely
in places like church, and I also requested that we have a nursing area
placed in teh nurse for moms who just don't feel as comfortable nursing in
public even as discreetly as this. They decided they would put a screened
area in teh vestibule along with a couple of chairs, and Sr. Therese would
politely inform any nursing others in case they wanted to use it. I was
supposed to go shopping with her to find a good screen, but then Xander
got sick and it kind of fell by the way-side.
Michelle
Flutist
SEAN O'KEEFE
judy }|{ <saf...@webtv.net> wrote in article
<16365-37...@newsd-153.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
<snip> So let's say a man has to go to the
> bathroom, should he be allowed to just walk over to a tree and take a
> wiz? In the company of 2 girls softball teams? Even if he can be
> discreet? After all, it IS just as natural and necessary as
> breastfeeding (I'd even argue more necessary and natural, but that's not
> the point), and it IS a public place. What's the difference?
The difference is that bathrooms are not usu. considered appropriate places
to feed babies.
Later,
Pam
towery
yourself well....the only people who know what you are doing are the people
that breastfeed also or that are around breastfeeding regularly...everyone
that may be offended by it would be clueless to the fact that breastfeeding
is what is going on under that bib or security blanket....the breast should
not be exposed at all.....not even while un hooking the bra....
if you do it correctly no one else will know what is going on except for
people that have breastfed also or who are around breastfeeding
regularly.....so I do not see what the problem is with women breasfeeding
there child in public places.
You said something about going to your car to breastfeed...well...what if is
is storming outside or very hot or very cold...or even if it is a perfectly
nice day out...you are in the Wal Mart parking lot at this time and people
can easily see into your car parked in the parking lot....if some one is
totally offended by this(the same people who have a problem with it is the
store will havew a problem with it is the car outside the store)
what would stop that person form complaining to management just as they
would if you were in the store...where would it end are we going to have to
stay at home with our children until we are not longer breastfeeding
them....oh okay I see, so we can not go anywhere until our child will not
have to eat while we are out.....
Geez there should be no problem with breastfeeding as long as the mother is
being responseable and NOT showing her boobs to everyone.....ans as I said
there is no reason that she should expose herself to anyone.....
I have noticed no one says a word to the woman wearing a skimpy bathingsuit
top in wal mart...but if you stay covered and breastfeed your baby you must
leave tht is rediculous.....
The people that have a problem with it are the same people that do not
understand breastfeeding and how it is done...and I am sure those people
have sat beside someone breastfeeding and never knew that was what was going
on....
Castle
judy }|{ wrote in message
<16361-371...@newsd-153.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
I pressed "send" too early... sorry, I still have points to make...
Any way, many have also made the point that we wouldn't eat our meals
in a bathroom, so why should babies? Well, for one thing, we eat our
meals off of plates and use utensils, and our food 'touches' the air the
whole time it's on our plate. But babies who are breastfeeding are
getting their food from a breast, which is up to the mother to keep
sanitary. And, their food goes directly from breast into mouth, no
lingering in the germ-ridden bathroom air. I don't think it poses any
risk as far as germs are concerned to feed a baby in the bathroom.
Also, if the bathroom is too dirty, then THAT should be the complaint
with Walmart. And since most people drive to Walmart, there's always
the perfectly good option of doing it in the car. Why is it such a big
deal to just comply?? Sure it may be more convenient to just do it
right there in the store, but that doesn't mean that it therefore should
be a right. Life isn't always fair to everybody, some things we just
have to accept. I don't think it's fair to force people to witness
something they don't want to see. And I certainly don't think that the
privelage of breastfeeding Walart is worth whatever the amount she is
suing for. And for those who say the sole function of the breast is
for feeding a baby, have you never been pleased with the way you look in
a certain outfit that maybe shows off a little cleavage? When your
husband/lover first discovered them, did you slap his hand away and get
offended that he was aroused? Why do you wear a bra? To keep from
sagging? Who cares what they look like- they're not for show anyway,
right? Would you prefer to walk around in a society where women are
topless? A comparison was made that those cultures you see in National
Geographic don't think twice about a woman's breasts, so why should we?
This is such an bad comparisson, because there are too many differeces
to draw valid parallels.
It's not fair to send mixed messages, and while some people ARE smart
enough to determine what's sexy and what's not, it's not, as I said
before, the REAL world. As long as women are posing for Playboy, as
long as women are wearing sexy lingerie, as long as women are
discovering their sex appeal, it's going to be viewed partially as a
sexual thing. We can't force the world to be ideal.
And lastly, I think the woman is just sue-happy, and just wants
something to crow about. This is the thing that I don't think society
should tolerate.
I know my opinions are bold, but I really believe in them, and I know
I'm not the only one, although I may be the only one here to speak up
about it. Before you slam me with flames, try to respond to what I
SAID, and not ME.
And if you got this far, thanks for your attention!
For the record, I DO plan on breastfeeding, but see no reason to make
other's uncomfortable in the process. I wouldn't go to a friend's
dinner party and just do it in the middle of the living room amidst
everyone. That would be rude, and therefore I wouldn't do it in the
middle of Walmart.
And as for the idea of staging a "nurse-in", I think that's just
childish.
(donning flame-guard attire...)
-Judy
SEAN O'KEEFE
judy }|{ <saf...@webtv.net> wrote in article
<16361-371...@newsd-153.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
<snip>
> I wouldn't go to a friend's
> dinner party and just do it in the middle of the living room amidst
> everyone. That would be rude, and therefore I wouldn't do it in the
> middle of Walmart.
And I'll bet a friend wouldn't ask you to go nurse your baby in the
bathroom, either.
And, exactly where in that bathroom would you propose a mother sit to nurse
an infant? On a toilet? In our Wal-Mart, that's the only place available
to sit in the bathroom.
I would nurse a baby in our Wal-Mart in the cafeteria. I would sit in a
corner, w/ my back toward the store, facing a wall as much as possible. I
would likely have five other children w/ me, creating a diversion.
Later,
Pam
>
Mette Sabram
> woman's breast and be that adult about it?
The thing is however, the context in which the naked breast appear. If it is
in playboy, most men and young guys cannot be "adult" about it, if it is on
a breastfeeding woman most guys can - bc they don't see it as a sexual act.
in fact, if they have kids themselves they even approve and smile to
themselves! (My experience).
A woman's breast has several roles and most men know the difference between
those. my dh is NOT sexually aroused when I bf, but he might be by the sight
of them later in a different situation...
Just like I don't think men go to the museum and look at sculptures and
paintings of 1700 naked women and become erected! Look at the context. bf is
not erotic and men know that.
If you ask me I think the people who would be offended are in fact elderly
ladies...
> Even if he can be
> discreet? After all, it IS just as natural and necessary as
> breastfeeding (I'd even argue more necessary and natural, but that's not
> the point), and it IS a public place. What's the difference?
The same difference between food and urin!!
bf is NOT dirty or elimination of garbage from the body, as is urin.
How can you even compare those two??/
You said you didn't think the woman should have fed her baby. Great - just
let the baby starve so we don't offend anybody who has a screwed up look on
the body.
Better to hear hunger cries all over the store!
--
*************
Mette Sabram
Mom to Rebekka Marie (4 weeks)
Http://www.sabram.com/site/rebekka.html
*************
Colette
slits in them to wear under a bigger shirt. That way my belly was
already covered. It's very discreet that way. With an older kid or very
hot days I might skip it.
If I ever have another baby, especially, I would _never_ go to sit on a
toilet with my two older kids running around the bathroom because
someone is too immature just to look away if they happen to catch the
odd glimpse of <gasp> flesh, or worse because of what they imagine is
going on under my teeshirt.. Nor would I trek out in possibly bad
weather to the car while the baby screams. Older kids and adults need to
learn to accomodate the smallest members of our society, b/c little
babies are least able to cope with having things like feeding being put
off.
Jake only occaisionally nurses in public now, and when he does it's b/c
we're out around his nap time. Usually I go to a food-serving area where
I can sit down. It's too hard to walk and nurse a two-year-old, so
sitting down is the best option. Then I can also get a snack and drink
for me and Amy. At the park I just nurse him wherever. And ya know what?
If anyone ever asked me to leave I would laugh in their face. They'd
have a hard time throwing me out! I'm a pretty big girl at 6 feet. My
son and I together weigh over 200 lbs.
I would never go to a dinner party where I would be made to feel weird
because of choosing the best possible comforting measure and nourishment
for my baby. If it's an adult-only party my children wouldn't be there.
If it's a mixed age party, then where a woman would bottlefeed, I would
breastfeed, period. That's the criteria I use. Is this an appropriate
place for a mother to give a baby a bottle? Then it's an appropriate
place to breastfeed. It's that simple, really.
The immature people are not those who stage a nurse-in. The immature
ones are those who would be offended at a woman providing such a
wonderful gift to her child as mother's milk and the best and safest
pacifer ever designed in the history of humankind.
--
Colette, mom to 2 beautiful homebirthed children
The remarkable 4 year old Amy
and the magnificent 2 year old Jake
Come visit my updated site!
Home Birth and Midwives Support Network for Illinois
http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/5510
Colette
>
> On Sat, 17 Apr 1999 00:06:28 -0400 (EDT), saf...@webtv.net (judy }|{)
> wrote:
> >For one thing, in an ideal world, yes, the breast is there for the sole
> >purpose of feeding a child, and should be looked upon as a functional
> >part of the body. However, in the real world, at least in the U.S.,
> >it's also viewed as a symbol of eroticism, and is thought of as being
> >related to sex. That's just the way it is, and no matter how much you
> >try to convince yourself that people are liberal enough to view it as
> >purely functional, there are going to be people who are not in that mind
> >frame. For example, do you really expect an adolescent boy to see a
> >woman's breast and be that adult about it? Or many men, for that
> >matter. How about it you were that boy's mother, or man's wife, or even
> >that man's daughter?
>
> woman bfing. In fact, my parents' neighbor comes over all the time and
> she almost always has a nursling with her (she has baby after baby).
> Some men can get past the sexualization of the female breast, believe
> it or not.
I don't go to malls very often -- hardley ever, really. But the one time
I did nurse Jake in a mall I was sitting in the middle of Gurnee Mills
in Illinois. and in each family that passed by, the woman (usually in
the front) would get hyper, and look back several times to see if the
husband would notice me sitting there nursing (usually they didn't). IME
it's women who usually seem to have a bad attitude. I've never had
anyone say anything, except one time I think maybe someone was
scandalized when I was 8 months pregnant and still nursing There was a
slight change in pitch of a woman talking to her friends at another
table in the restaurant, and she was scowling in my direction. But I
just smiled.
angela
Hamilton <hami...@htljn.com> wrote in message
news:hamilton-170...@host-209-214-117-8.bna.bellsouth.net...
> Where exactly do you think a breast feeding woman should sit in a
> bathroom to feed her baby? The toilets have no seat lids -- And of course
> it is pretty rude to occupy a stall for half an hour when there are
> people who might wish to use the toilet for its intended purpose.
>
> There is no place to nurse a baby in a typical public bathroom. Some
> stores have 'lounges' with couches etc -- and when they do, that is
> generally where Moms go to feed their babies.
I have looked in some of the so-called 'mommy areas' in bathrooms,
particularly on public ferries and so on. They consist of a chair. Usually
with big solid hard arms, such that it's nearly impossible to position a
baby for comfort - yours or baby's. Alternatively, the chair is a folding
metal chair.
However, *if* there were a comfortable lounge with a couch, it'd be the
first place I'd choose to sit. I don't like nursing on benches when I can
sit somewhere nicely padded. But most businesses do NOT provide any such
facilities.
--angela
Hamilton
<sp...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> judy }|{ <saf...@webtv.net> wrote in article
> <16365-37...@newsd-153.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
>
> <snip> So let's say a man has to go to the
> > bathroom, should he be allowed to just walk over to a tree and take a
> > wiz? In the company of 2 girls softball teams? Even if he can be
> > discreet? After all, it IS just as natural and necessary as
> > breastfeeding (I'd even argue more necessary and natural, but that's not
> > the point), and it IS a public place. What's the difference?
>
> The difference is that bathrooms are not usu. considered appropriate places
> to feed babies.
>
> Later,
> Pam
What are the odds that a person who equates peeing and feeding a baby
is going to listen to any sense anyway?
Daryl & Tina
Heather Shafer <cmuhe...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:4523-37...@newsd-173.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> Where at in Ohio is this lawsuit taking place? I live in Ohio as well.
> In my town I heard of a woman being asked to nurse her baby somewhere
> else while she was visiting a museum. In my opinion, anywhere a mother
> is bottlefeeding a baby a woman should be allowed to breastfeed her
> baby. And Certainly not in the bathroom!! Ughhh!! I tried that when my
> son was very tiny, but gave that up after attending Laleche League
> meetings. I think wherever this lawsuit is going on there should be a
> group of breastfeeding women having a "nurse in" (or whatever you call
> that) as someone mentioned in their post.
> Heather, mom to Garrett 12-24-96, breastfed for 13 mos.,
>
nancy
> I know I'll unfortunately probably get flamed for this, but since this
> IS a group for discussion, I feel the need to give my opinion, even
> though it is different than the general consensus of this thread.
I won't flame you but I'll disagree with you.
I see you point but society changes and it takes some women putting
themselves on the line to get people to change their attitudes. Maybe
some people are offended now by public breastfeeding, just as some people
30 years ago were offended by women wearing bikinis at the beach, but they
will get used to it and breastfeeding in public will be a normal thing
just like wearing bikinis at the beach is now. I have been in public
places with my husband and other male friends where there were
breastfeeding women and it didn't bother either me or my huband. It
bothered one of our male friends but we all thought it was his issue that
he had to deal with if he was embarrassed by the sight of a woman giving
sustenance to a baby.
As for the following:
> For one thing, in an ideal world, yes, the breast is there for the sole
> purpose of feeding a child, and should be looked upon as a functional
> part of the body. However, in the real world, at least in the U.S.,
> it's also viewed as a symbol of eroticism, and is thought of as being
> related to sex. That's just the way it is, and no matter how much you
> try to convince yourself that people are liberal enough to view it as
> purely functional, there are going to be people who are not in that mind
> frame.
Well, as I said, things change. People used to say "that's just the way
it is" when women, blacks, etc got discriminated against but that didn't
make it OK and therefore (most of ) society has changed, although there
are still some racist and sexist bastards out there. But racism and
sexism are now frowned upon. So society will continue to change...if
there is a demand by women to be able to breastfeed in public, it will
become possible.
Finally,
> Also, if it should be looked upon as a natural and necessary thing, then
> shouldn't it be ok for a man to pee in public if there are no facilities
> around? For example, from ages 10 to 16 I played softball for the
> community league, and at our field there were no bathrooms whatsoever.
> No porta-potties, nothing. So let's say a man has to go to the
> bathroom, should he be allowed to just walk over to a tree and take a
> wiz? In the company of 2 girls softball teams? Even if he can be
> discreet? After all, it IS just as natural and necessary as
> breastfeeding (I'd even argue more necessary and natural, but that's not
> the point), and it IS a public place. What's the difference?
I've seen dozens of male friends pee and it never offended me, so I don't
have a preblem with it....hell, I've even peed by a tree when there was
no other choice and there were guys around.
Now, as for your statement that peeing is more necessary and natural than
breastfeeding...I don't see your point. Isn't feeding a child necessary?
Sure as hell ain't gonna feed itself is it?
On a final note, in case you are not aware, most women do not "let it all
hang out" when they breastfeed. There are discreet ways of doing it. You
even mentioned people going up to a breasfeeding woman without knowing.
Also, if a woman is shopping, where do you expect her to feed her
child...in the bathroom??? Would you eat in the bathroom with those awful
smells surrounding you? Didn't think so.
Nancy
future mom of Jacob or Nora who will be breastfed anywhere I damn well
please
nancy
yes, I mentioned in my relpy to the first par tof your message that people
wouldn't eat i bathrooms... I'm not worried about germs though, bu tabout
the smell. Most public bathrooms contain a stench of death and baby's do
in fact have a sense of smell.
You say in this message that it isn't fair to force people to see things
they don;t want to see...is it fair that when we walk down the street we
are forced to see ads with semi-naked barbi doll look-alikes? or signs
for strip clubs with actual naked women on them? Some people would say no
and are offended by these things (although I'm not) and yet big companies
with MONEY are allowed to keep displaying these things. So if they can
display, why can;'t a woman breastfeed at Walmart's? If someone doesn;'t
like it they have the option of looking away. besides, I assume most
women wopuld be wise enough to do this in the women's clothing section or
something... not by the entrance where there is a draft and everyone comes
in and out so not that many people will need to see this "awful sight"
By the way, I owuld love to live in a society where women walk around
topless...wow! the ultimate freedom! As for whoever said that those
societies don;t think twice about breasts...as an anthropologist myself,
I can tell you that that is a generalisation and that every culture sees
breasts differently. Some don;'t think about them but some do. Cultures
cannot be compared as their views on the body are relative to the rest of
their cultural views.
Myself, I don't see the breast as solely for breastfeeding.. I think
breasts are wonderfully sexy. However, when your feeding, your feeding.
Some people may find it arousing and that's fine but it can be controlled.
Since I am bisexual, I have, in fact, been aroused by the sight of
breastfeeding women (althought I knew them personally) but I would never,
ever, let that interfere with her action.
And again you talk about the real world versus the ideal world. And again
I will say that society is capable of growing up. It has to or it won;t
survive.
In any case, you are allowed to your opinions and I don;'t want tothrow
flames at you. As you can see, I did in fact, reply to what you SAID. I
respect your thoughts even though I don;t agree.
Good luck with your pregnancy and with the breastfeeding, regardless of
where you choose to do it:)
nancy
future mom of Nora or Jacob
P.S. Up here in Canada, a woman who was breastfeeding on a park bench was
told by security guard that she couldn't. She sued and won. Noone had
complained to the guard, by the way, he was just having a power trip.
Guess US and Canadian mentality i really different, eh?
Take care
> other's uncomfortable in the process. I wouldn't go to a friend's
> dinner party and just do it in the middle of the living room amidst
> everyone. That would be rude, and therefore I wouldn't do it in the
> middle of Walmart.
EdelBarb
>16 son got aroused by seeing her
>breastfeed a baby, and that woman got
to do it in Walmart?
In my opinion, the post about the 16 year old boy was bull. I breast fed my
daughter for 11 months, anywhere, and no one ever saw any part of my breast. I
did, however, pick places that were decent and not heavily populated. If I did
have to do it at a retaurant or where there was a lot of mixed company, I was
very careful. You can adjust your shirt and the baby so that no one even knows
what you are doing, except by the position of the baby. There is no reason to
have to expose your breast or even your nipple. C'mon, if you really knew about
breast feeding you would realize this. I think a woman should be considerate
not to expose herself though and this is very easily accomplished.
Anita S. Lanterman
>
> I have nursed many, many times on the bench just outside the door of
> Walmart. I assume that if someone thought I was hurting their image or
> disturbing someone, that I would have been asked to stop. (I nursed
> outside, not because I didn't want to inside, but because there was more
> room and fresh air).
>
> A neat/funny story about nursing in church. I have no problems nursing in
> the sanctuary of our church and the minister is supportive - doesn't hurt
> that my minister is a woman who also bf'd. Anyway, once my husband made
> the statement that I nursed in church "in front of God and everyone else."
> I said - Who better?
>
> pk
>
> rc <rc...@sprintmail.com> wrote in article
> <01be84a9$d3296f00$5dd9bfa8@default>...
> > Ok. I will accept it if the concensus is that I am "missing" it. But do
> > you all really have these kind of problems with breastfeeding in public?
> I
> > have been doing this on and off for almost 10 years now and have never
> been
> > confronted about it--even in Wal-Mart. : ) (seriously, I have nursed
> in
> snip
>
> > Rebecca
> >
> > Oh, I live near Washington, D.C.
> > & I nurse in the sanctuary at church too! If I go to the nursery how
> will
> > I hear the sermon? : )
> >
> >
> snip
Hello,
When my son was nursing I breastfed him in Wal-Mart and no one said a
word to me. I went to the bench near layaway, which is by the bathrooms
and breastfed him when ever he was hungry and when we were there. I did
get some looks but that was all, and I am planning on breastfeeding
Hunter when she is born and if she gets hungry when we are out in public
or at a store, I will breastfeed. I look at it this way, when I get
hungry I am going to eat and if my child get hungry I will feed her, no
matter where we are. I refuse to go to the bathroom, I don't eat in the
bathroom and I don't expect my child to either.
Take care,
Anita
Proud Mommy of:
Tommy,Michael,Jackie,Andrew and Hunter(she is due in April)
Click here to see our family:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/1807/
Tecia
>
>For one thing, in an ideal world, yes, the breast is there for the sole
>purpose of feeding a child, and should be looked upon as a functional
>part of the body. However, in the real world, at least in the U.S.,
>it's also viewed as a symbol of eroticism, and is thought of as being
>related to sex. That's just the way it is, and no matter how much you
>try to convince yourself that people are liberal enough to view it as
>purely functional, there are going to be people who are not in that mind
>frame.
Of course, but their sexual hang-ups aren't our problem. There are men
who are turned on by the sight of scantily-clad children, too, but does that
mean I can't take my little ones to the beach in their swimsuits?
>For example, do you really expect an adolescent boy to see a
>woman's breast and be that adult about it?
I don't really care: no, he probably won't be adult about it, but so what?
He may get an erection. AFAIK [never having been one!] adolescent
boys get erections all the time. Completely normal and natural. As he
grows up and matures, he will learn what breasts are actually for.
>Or many men, for that
>matter. How about it you were that boy's mother,
Well, I sincerely hope that my son would know what breasts are for -
he's seen them in action often enough! And if he involuntarily got
aroused by the sight of a woman breastfeeding, well OK. That's a fact
of life about being an adolescent!
>or man's wife,
No way would I be married to a man who gawped at womens breasts
while they were breastfeeding! Unlike adolescent boys, who can be
excused, men are adults, and if they (involuntarily) became aroused by
the sight of a woman breastfeeding (after all, we can't control what
arouses us) I would expect them not to look.
> or even
>that man's daughter? A while back, there was a post about a woman who's
>16 son got aroused by seeing her breastfeed a baby, and that woman got
>totally chastised for doing it in front of him. Why isn't that ok, if
>it's ok to do it in Walmart?
I'm certain you'll find that woman was a troll, and that almost everyone
realised that. And if I was breastfeeding, and found it aroused a 16 year
old son, I would tell him that maybe he should go elsewhere while I was
nursing.
That's the key: it *isn't* the fault of the man if they find the sight of
women nursing erotic or disturbing. But its *their* sexual hang-up, and
they need to either get over it or look the other way.
[Note: I just asked my husband whether he would find it arousing to see a
woman breastfeed in public. He said "no more arousing than seeing a
woman in a short skirt or a low-cut top. And I wouldn't feel I had the
right to go up to them and tell them they should wear different clothes"]
I rest my case.
--
C
Mama to Peter (2.5), Isabel (13 months)
Georgia and Anna (12 weeks)
Mary Conner
>Well like I said before if you are good at breastfeeding and you cover
>yourself well....the only people who know what you are doing are the people
>that breastfeed also or that are around breastfeeding regularly...everyone
>that may be offended by it would be clueless to the fact that breastfeeding
>is what is going on under that bib or security blanket....the breast should
>not be exposed at all.....not even while un hooking the bra....
Sorry, but I don't give a damn if breasts get exposed at all. With
my first I did my best to be "discreet", but now I'm just tired at
these oppressive restrictions on women who breastfeed. I shouldn't
*have* to try to hide my breast at all. I suspect the warped American
view of the breast is a great deal responsible for the abysmal
breastfeeding rate in this country. So many women either don't
breastfeed at all or give it up early because they're uncomfortable
about trying to do it while out, and they don't want to stay cooped
up at home.
Things change, and I certainly will do everything I can to get women
the same rights to expose their breasts and nipples that men have.
Salmonamie
I didn't want to copy the entire post, but I have some comments also.
First, I don't understand why having a baby makes it OK to do anything you
want. Someone said they use this judgement - is this a place that I can feed a
baby a bottle? I think that is a great line of reasoning. I have never fed my
children or myself in a department store, even if it is a pathetic Walmart. I
use this reasoning - if no food or drink is allowed, this applies to anyone. I
have seen so many situations where a parent decides that the rules don't apply
to their child. They give their child a sipper cup of juice, crackers, you
name it...all while sitting right under the sign requesting no food. I just
don't get this attitude.
When my children are hungry, I don't shop. They get their food at home, in a
restaurant, or in the car. How many people rip open bags of cookies in a
grocery store because their poor child needs food now? It just doesn't make
any sense to me. We're talking consideration for the store and the public.
Not only is it wrong in my mind to feed a child where food and drink is not
allowed, there are the uncomfortable feelings surrounding breast-feeding. It
just really saddens me that people feel they have the right to embarrass
others. Yes, it is natural. Yes, it is nourishment. Yes, you can probably do
it almost anywhere legally. But why? Doesn't it even enter your mind to be
considerate of others? It is really sad.
Changing diapers is another thing I've seen parents do in the most
inappropriate places. It is just common decency to think of others before
doing something in public.
You cannot compare fighting for breast-feeding rights to race, religion,...
rights. That is just such a far stretch. I try to be incredibly considerate
to all human beings and just would never feed my child where others won't
accept it or rules are written. I see it as being a compassionate human being.
I'm sure some people assume because I try to do what I can reasonably do to
make others feel comfortable, that I am a push-over. Nothing could be farther
from the truth. I would fight until I collapsed, and I have, to right a wrong.
If there was a rule or law that said only blue-eyed women could breast-feed,
then I would be in the front of the protest. I am over the top when it comes
to equality for all human beings. If someone felt uncomfortable because there
was a handicapped individual working as a salesman at a store and a customer
complained, then this is a case where I would say - deal with it! This person
is a human being! I just don't see the comparison to breast-feeding and those
human rights. People equate it to nudity, get embarrassed, and supposedly
others feel men may get their kicks out of watching it. Then why in the heck
should you do it just to prove something - like staging a nurse-in? I just
don't get it. Then again, I don't understand why men wear shirts too small
that won't cover their beer bellies, or wear pants that show their cracks when
they sit down. I can't look at men who do that. No, there is no law against
it. It also makes me uncomfortable when people sneeze without covering their
mouths, talk with their mouths full, or floss their teeth at the table in a
restaurant. Should we have rules protecting those rights too?
I really believe that women should have the right to feed their babies anywhere
that a person could eat. In emergencies, where there is nowhere else to go,
then they have no choice. I refuse to accept telling a woman to go to the
bathroom. That is really disgusting. I don't even want to take my children in
a public restroom to go to the bathroom - the last thing I would want to do is
take them in there to eat. Public restrooms are a health hazard. The point I
just don't get is why people don't give a flip if others are uncomfortable with
something and just don't care. It's just not an attitude I will ever be able
to accept. I wonder what kind of example parents are setting for their
children by saying - if they don't like it, lump it! I have to believe that
this attitude will come to haunt the parents in the future. I prefer to teach
my children to care about others' feelings. I like to think that they will use
continue to have that attitude towards me and the rest of the world in the
future.
For those of you who are very discreet, go to the car to breast-feed, won't do
it among friends or acquaintances who are uncomfortable with it, those are the
people I want to share this world with. Those are the considerate,
compassionate, and caring people that help make this world a special place. I
imagine those are the same parents who refuse to let their children in theaters
or restaurants if they can't keep their mouths shut, and won't rip open the bag
of cookies in the grocery store unless they or their children are diabetic and
will go into a coma if they don't - which is what I prefer to assume if I see
that, as I like to believe that people do have the correct judgement. So,
thanks for caring about others. I can't wait to see what your children
accomplish when they become adults.
Jeff Kenwell & Steph Land
"let it all hang out", or cover up I really don't think that should make any
difference in whether my breastfeeding is acceptable or not. The fact is
that each mother and child needs to work out what is acceptable to them
societal pressures be damned.
Lets face it, this obsession with breasts is an American/Canadian thing.
When Ontario got the right to be topless (regardless of whether there was
anything productive going on) people predicted the sky would fall and the
fabric of society would crumble...so far we are still standing. I see a
great many things that disturb me on a regular basis. However I see that as
being my problem generally and don't see why I should involve others who are
doing something that does not disturb them...barring illegal activities of
course.
Since breastfeeding is not in that category...breastfeed however you
want...discreetly or not. No difference in the flexibility of other peoples
necks...just turn away if something bothers you.
Steph
Mary Conner wrote in message <7fdkm2$l9s$0...@199.201.191.2>...
kerri
saf...@webtv.net says...
>
>For example, do you really expect an adolescent boy to see a
>woman's breast and be that adult about it?
If he's my son? AbsoLUTEly.
> Many people, including women, are uncomfortable with other people's
>nudity, regardless of how necessary the nudity is.
Since when does breastfeeding involve nudity?
>Many of these posts
>have said it themselves- that people have come up to them not knowing
>they are breast feeding and then being obviously embarrassed when they
>find out. I think if there's one breastfeeding woman, and ten
>uncomfortable customers, it's in Walmart's best interest to act on
>behalf of the ten uncomfortable customers.
Well, many states don't believe so. Dozens of states now have laws on the books
that make it very clear. If you have the legal right to be somewhere, and your
baby has the legal right to be there, too, then you have the legal right to
breastfeed that baby there. If someone does not allow you to take advantage of
this law...if someone denies you the right that the state has granted, then
the harmed person has every right to sue. Her rights have been violated,
according to law.
>Also, if it should be looked upon as a natural and necessary thing, then
>shouldn't it be ok for a man to pee in public if there are no facilities
>around?
If he's doing it in a jar and taking it with him, sure. It may be natural and
necessary, and I may see it that way, but it IS against the law.
>For example, from ages 10 to 16 I played softball for the
>community league, and at our field there were no bathrooms whatsoever.
>No porta-potties, nothing. So let's say a man has to go to the
>bathroom, should he be allowed to just walk over to a tree and take a
>wiz? In the company of 2 girls softball teams? Even if he can be
>discreet? After all, it IS just as natural and necessary as
>breastfeeding (I'd even argue more necessary and natural, but that's not
>the point), and it IS a public place. What's the difference?
The difference is, it's NOT legal to squirt breastmilk all over the store.
--kerri
Rosenugga
public. I was afraid of someone creating a scene. The first time I BF her in
public was at our local Walmart. Caity was just over two weeks old and we were
trying to take her picture. She started getting hungry and the girl doing the
photos said go ahead and feed her we have time. When I told her Caity didn't
take bottles she said no problem. I sat in a chair in the corner of the
studio. No one noticed even though the studio is right next to the front door.
I just went back to Walmart yesterday for two month old pictures and I asked
the girl about it. She was shocked that a Walmart would do something like
that. She said many women ask if they can BF in the studio and she is more
than happy ro let them. She also said as far as she knows Walmart as a whole
has no policy against BF. Now granted this is just the Photo girl and not
management but if she allowed mothers to BF and the store had a policy against
it I would ahve thought something would have been said to her.
This is just my experience. YMMV.
--
Rose mother to Caitlynn Joy 2/13/99 (Daddy's best birthday present)
Visit my site to see the latest pics of our pretty girl!
http://members.aol.com/Rosenugga/index.html
kerri
says...
>When my children are hungry, I don't shop.
So, then, if the grocery store is a half hour away, and it takes you an hour to
shop, AND you have a toddler who needs to eat lunch, but it's 11 a.m., and you NEED
to go grocery shopping now, because the toddler's going to need a nap soon, and the
baby needs to eat every two hours...
Let me tell you, even with just ONE kid, if I didn't go shopping just because I
thought he'd get hungry or have a dirty diaper, well, I'd have to do ALL my
shopping on the internet...I'd never be allowed out of the house.
>How many people rip open bags of cookies in a
>grocery store because their poor child needs food now? It just doesn't make
>any sense to me. We're talking consideration for the store and the public.
And how is it inconsiderate to grab a bottle of water and OPEN it while you're
shopping? I mean, I can see if you didn't PAY for it when you left...but people do
it all the time, and I've never known anyone working at a store to complain to a
customer about it.
>It
>just really saddens me that people feel they have the right to embarrass
>others.
Me too. I mean, the fact that someone can actually walk up to a woman who is
feeding her child and make a *spectacle* of her...
>Yes, it is natural. Yes, it is nourishment. Yes, you can probably do
>it almost anywhere legally. But why? Doesn't it even enter your mind to be
>considerate of others? It is really sad.
Yes. It is VERY important to me to be considerate of my child's needs.
>Changing diapers is another thing I've seen parents do in the most
>inappropriate places. It is just common decency to think of others before
>doing something in public.
Yah. I mean, don't these mothers KNOW that children should be trained to ONLY poop
when they're at home?!?!?! Much better to leave the child wallowing in his own
feces, to get a diaper rash or worse, than to discretely change his diaper.
>You cannot compare fighting for breast-feeding rights to race, religion,...
>rights. That is just such a far stretch. I try to be incredibly considerate
>to all human beings and just would never feed my child where others won't
>accept it or rules are written.
Baaaaa.
>I see it as being a compassionate human being.
So, you're more worried about being compassionate to strangers than you are to your
own child?
>The point I
>just don't get is why people don't give a flip if others are uncomfortable with
>something and just don't care.
Because if we all worried so much about other people's hang-ups, we'd never be able
to go out of the house. You know, if I have a cold, but I need some medicine, I'm
going to go to the store and get some. Someone might think it's rude of me to go
out in public and spread my germs...well, sometimes, *I* am more important than
strangers. If someone doesn't want to see me nursing, they can look away...if
someone doesn't want to catch my cold, they can wash their hands. But I'm not going
to tippy-toe around other people when it's a matter that is important...a matter of
eating or getting medicine...
I mean, for crying out loud, men pee in urinals, right next to one another!
>I wonder what kind of example parents are setting for their
>children by saying - if they don't like it, lump it!
But you already said that about the handicapped salesman...what's the difference?
Why is one more noble than the other?
>I have to believe that
>this attitude will come to haunt the parents in the future. I prefer to teach
>my children to care about others' feelings.
But what about when others' feelings are something you'd consider irrational?
Perhaps someone doesn't want to see you in public because you have bad fashion
sense. Does that mean that you should stay home, because you're going to affect the
fashion sensibilities of a few folks?
>For those of you who are very discreet, go to the car to breast-feed, won't do
>it among friends or acquaintances who are uncomfortable with it, those are the
>people I want to share this world with.
Are we a little repressed?
>Those are the considerate,
>compassionate, and caring people that help make this world a special place.
Yeah. The ones who fill their childs noses with the smell of urine while they are
*respecting* the wants of strangers. What about respecting the needs and wants of
your child? How is it considerate, compassionate, and caring to tell me where I can
and cannot feed my child?
>I
>imagine those are the same parents who refuse to let their children in theaters
>or restaurants if they can't keep their mouths shut,
Oh, great. Now boisterous kids aren't allowed to go out to eat? Sheesh. You seem
VERY worried about other people, and have little consideration for the kid-ness of
your kids. This is NOT a world made up of all adults, for adults.
--kerri
Colette
bottlefeed. I would also breastfeed anywhere a mom might put a pacifier
in her babies mouth -- since I never owned one, and my children got all
their comfort sucking from me. Also, given my tenuous hold on milk
supply, any extra artificial nipples could cause me to lose milk; a risk
i'm not willing to take b/c some stranger needs an attitude adjustment
about life. I would also breastfeed anywhere a non-nursing mom might
comfort her baby by any means whatsoever, since that was a very
effective means of comfort for my chilren I used that as soon as I
determined burping or diaper change were not in order.
Since nurisng is more sanitary than bottlefeeding (it just is; don't be
offended; it's true), and once the mom is past the leaking stage (if she
has one) there is no spillage, and there is no bottle that will then
need to be rinsed (or liner disposed of), AND breastmilk digests more
quickly than formula so breastfeed babies tend to need to be fed when
out more often, the criteria if whether or not food is allowed in the
location does not apply. Some breastfed babies, especially during a
growth spurt, can nurse every hour! It's impossible for a mom not to
nurse when out if her baby falls into such a nursing pattern.
Also, in order to hold a baby to bottlefeed, the parent sometimes cannot
continue the tast at hand ... try juggling a baby, a bottle and still
grocery shop. With a sling, a baby is able to nurse while getting
skin-to-skin contact, and the mother can still <insert task here>.
Regarding consideration of other people's feelings: my baby's needs win
out long before older people's needs. I suppose the thinking could go
something like this: "Hrm. That 70 year old woman might be shocked if I
nurse. My baby, who is fed on demand, is expressing a need to eat. It's
10 degrees outside, and there's no place to sit here." None of those
things enter my mind, but if they did they'd quickly be swept aside, b/c
when a baby epxresses a need to eat, most breastfeeding moms feel an
overwhelming physical response (partial let-down, full let-down) that
literally tugs at them to nurse then and there.
And much more importantly: how about society's consideration for my
baby's needs??
Beth Starks
and I cannot NOT feed my child if he is hungry. Sure I can try to work
around going shopping for the "convenience" of other people so that
I won't have to bf in public, but who's to say the baby won't be hungry
sooner than anticipated? Should I then be forced to go to the bathroom
to nurse? I think not. I don't want to flame you because I do see
your point, but since the point is that this is the real world, then people
in
the real world should realize that a woman's breasts are not just sexual.
I nursed my son in public and I always tried to keep it as covered as
possible.
I am sure the woman who was nursing in Walmart wasn't sitting there with
her
shirt off fully exposed. It is only the people who actually stop and stare
that would probably notice anyway. Before I had my son I hardly ever
noticed
anyone nursing in public, but once I was doing it myself I could notice it
a bit
more. I think people have to be looking pretty hard to spot a nursing
mother,
after all we are not exhibitionists!!! (speaking for myself of course!)
As for peeing in public, that is just plain unsanitary! Besides, we are
talking
about adults here. For goodness sake, hold it and run to the Dairy Queen
across
the street! I don't think this is a good comparison to bf in public.
beths and Logan Chicago 9/1/97
judy }|{ wrote:
> For one thing, in an ideal world, yes, the breast is there for the sole
> purpose of feeding a child, and should be looked upon as a functional
> part of the body. However, in the real world, at least in the U.S.,
> it's also viewed as a symbol of eroticism, and is thought of as being
> related to sex. That's just the way it is, and no matter how much you
> try to convince yourself that people are liberal enough to view it as
> purely functional, there are going to be people who are not in that mind
> frame. For example, do you really expect an adolescent boy to see a
> woman's breast and be that adult about it? Or many men, for that
> matter. How about it you were that boy's mother, or man's wife, or even
> that man's daughter?
Sue and Len Familton
I am a mother of soon to be 4 (may 8) but the way i feel may be sooner. I
have been waking up with a pain between my shoulder blades every night a
couple times a night .
talk to you soon. S.F.
Salmonamie
meaning. Then I'm outta here. Most likely anything I say won't change
anyone's mind. I just wanted to add another perspective, which I did. That's
what we are all here for - to hear everyone's sides. I'm not one to criticize
another's way of life, so I will stick to my own.
>>When my children are hungry, I don't shop.
>
>So, then, if the grocery store is a half hour away, and it takes you an hour
>to
>shop, AND you have a toddler who needs to eat lunch, but it's 11 a.m., and
>you NEED
>to go grocery shopping now, because the toddler's going to need a nap soon,
>and the
>baby needs to eat every two hours...
>
>Let me tell you, even with just ONE kid, if I didn't go shopping just because
>I
>thought he'd get hungry or have a dirty diaper, well, I'd have to do ALL my
>shopping on the internet...I'd never be allowed out of the house.
>
Well, that is what I do. When I am shopping and they are too hungry to
continue, I simply stop shopping. I don't sit them in the cart with food while
I continue walking or sit somewhere. I take them to a restaurant or the car,
or I just go home. I just feel very uncomfortable with handing them drinks and
food in a store.
>>How many people rip open bags of cookies in a
>>grocery store because their poor child needs food now? It just doesn't make
>>any sense to me. We're talking consideration for the store and the public.
>
>And how is it inconsiderate to grab a bottle of water and OPEN it while
>you're
>shopping? I mean, I can see if you didn't PAY for it when you left...but
>people do
>it all the time, and I've never known anyone working at a store to complain
>to a
>customer about it.
>
That's your choice. I couldn't possibly do that unless there was a valid
health concern.
>>It
>>just really saddens me that people feel they have the right to embarrass
>>others.
>
>Me too. I mean, the fact that someone can actually walk up to a woman who is
>feeding her child and make a *spectacle* of her...
>
>
Oh, but this is where you read me wrong. I agree. It is very impolite. The
fact that the security guard took it upon himself to embarass that young woman
is very disappointing. The fact that he wasn't even representing the store and
just himself is unforgiveable. I'm sure he has learned a lesson the hard way.
>>Yes, it is natural. Yes, it is nourishment. Yes, you can probably do
>>it almost anywhere legally. But why? Doesn't it even enter your mind to be
>>considerate of others? It is really sad.
>
>Yes. It is VERY important to me to be considerate of my child's needs.
>
>
Please don't go to extremes here. I guess the thing that bothers me the most
is the proposal of a nurse-in. WalMart has already stated that this is not
their policy. We're talking about one misinformed employee who probably is no
longer working there. The point has already been made. Unfortunately, this
country requires legal action to make a point and I can't even chastise the
litigators because they are getting the publicity required to increase the
chance that the employees at WalMart will get the training they need regarding
the store's policy. All a nurse-in will do is annoy customers. It won't make
any points.
>>Changing diapers is another thing I've seen parents do in the most
>>inappropriate places. It is just common decency to think of others before
>>doing something in public.
>
>Yah. I mean, don't these mothers KNOW that children should be trained to ONLY
>poop
>when they're at home?!?!?! Much better to leave the child wallowing in his
>own
>feces, to get a diaper rash or worse, than to discretely change his diaper.
>
>
Again, another extreme. I'm talking about parents who change a child's diaper
in a restaurant that has a changing table in the restroom. If the restroom is
too filthy, then why are they eating there? If they don't mind eating the
filth, but don't want to use the restroom, then I would appreciate that they be
considerate and change the diaper in the car. I try, I really try to not get
annoyed at a parent who changes a diaper in a restaurant. I just can't see any
justification for it and mostly just feel sorry for them and their bad
judgement.
>>You cannot compare fighting for breast-feeding rights to race, religion,...
>>rights. That is just such a far stretch. I try to be incredibly
>considerate
>>to all human beings and just would never feed my child where others won't
>>accept it or rules are written.
>
>Baaaaa.
>
>
>>I see it as being a compassionate human being.
>
>So, you're more worried about being compassionate to strangers than you are
>to your
>own child?
>
I'll try not to laugh at the sarcasm. I try to be equally compassionate to
strangers and my children. I feel making a choice is sending a bad message to
my children. Again, please don't go to extremes. My child's safety is a huge
priority in my life and compassion for another human being is not going to
prevent me from refusing to open my front door when I don't know the person on
the other side and I am alone with my children. I even have to admit that if
there was a fire, I would rescue my children first, but I'd hate myself for it.
I just hope I don't have to make those kinds of choices. This means, if there
was a fire and my children were safe, I would do all I could to get the person
out. I simply could not live with myself if I didn't try.
>>The point I
>>just don't get is why people don't give a flip if others are uncomfortable
>with
>>something and just don't care.
>
>Because if we all worried so much about other people's hang-ups, we'd never
>be able
>to go out of the house. You know, if I have a cold, but I need some medicine,
>I'm
>going to go to the store and get some. Someone might think it's rude of me to
>go
>out in public and spread my germs...well, sometimes, *I* am more important
>than
>strangers. If someone doesn't want to see me nursing, they can look away...if
>
>someone doesn't want to catch my cold, they can wash their hands. But I'm not
>going
>to tippy-toe around other people when it's a matter that is important...a
>matter of
>eating or getting medicine...
>
>I mean, for crying out loud, men pee in urinals, right next to one another!
>
>
Again, extremes. I hear in Japan, it is rude to go out into public with a cold
unless you wear a mask. If I were visiting there, I would do the same. I wish
people would do the same in the US, actually. I'm really confused here. You
place your child's health over others to the point where you don't care if
another child catchs a disease you have? I hope I'm not reading that wrong. I
hope you value my child's health as much as your child's. Again, I'm not
asking anyone to go to extremes. But surely you won't sneeze in my child's
face? Please don't. And as for men using urinals next to each other...I'm
glad I'm not a man. Most of the ones I know prefer to wait until they get home
rather than use public restrooms. Then again, I feel the same way. Icky.
But please, get your medicine and feed your child when necessary.
>>I wonder what kind of example parents are setting for their
>>children by saying - if they don't like it, lump it!
>
>But you already said that about the handicapped salesman...what's the
>difference?
>Why is one more noble than the other?
>
No, you're just pulling my leg. What's the difference between discrimination
and ignoring a rule that most everyone can live with because you just feel like
it? Next you'll be asking why we should help stop ethnic cleansing. No, I
really refuse to believe you require an answer to that question.
>>I have to believe that
>>this attitude will come to haunt the parents in the future. I prefer to
>teach
>>my children to care about others' feelings.
>
>But what about when others' feelings are something you'd consider irrational?
>
>Perhaps someone doesn't want to see you in public because you have bad
>fashion
>sense. Does that mean that you should stay home, because you're going to
>affect the
>fashion sensibilities of a few folks?
>
Well, even if it is irrational, if it is the majority, or a reasonable request,
then I go along. For example, when some of the houses for sale around here are
open, there is a sign that tells us to remove our shoes before entering. I
find that to be unnecessary if my shoes are not muddy. Sometimes I resent the
time needed to remove my shoes and all of my children's shoes. However, I
respect it. If I don't agree, I don't have to go in the house, right? I hope
you aren't suggesting I just ignore the request.
I can't answer why people's fashion preferences are not my concern. I think
that was supposed to be an example to prove your point, right? In that case, I
have no answer. If it makes you feel better, I'll submit my clothing choices
to you before I dress, ha ha.
>>For those of you who are very discreet, go to the car to breast-feed, won't
>do
>>it among friends or acquaintances who are uncomfortable with it, those are
>the
>>people I want to share this world with.
>
>Are we a little repressed?
>
I'm not sure what you mean with that question. I simply like myself better
when I consider other's feelings. I also appreciate others who do that for me.
I've never been criticized for doing that. I have given those same values to
my children. I hope there isn't a flaw in those lessons!
>>Those are the considerate,
>>compassionate, and caring people that help make this world a special place.
>
>Yeah. The ones who fill their childs noses with the smell of urine while they
>are
>*respecting* the wants of strangers. What about respecting the needs and
>wants of
>your child? How is it considerate, compassionate, and caring to tell me where
>I can
>and cannot feed my child?
>
>
Well, I did say I would never tell anyone to feed their child in a bathroom. I
think you overlooked that statement. You know, I am getting the impression
that your questions weren't meant to be answered. Perhaps a question from me
in the same vein will illustrate my point. If you were shopping for furniture
and your child was hungry, would you pull up a chair to the nearest table or
sofa (on sale in the store) and pull out juice and crackers? You see, I can do
it too. I don't think I need anyone to answer this. I prefer to assume the
answer is obvious. I'm starting to get a little punchy from all of these
questions.
>>I
>>imagine those are the same parents who refuse to let their children in
>theaters
>>or restaurants if they can't keep their mouths shut,
>
>Oh, great. Now boisterous kids aren't allowed to go out to eat? Sheesh. You
>seem
>VERY worried about other people, and have little consideration for the
>kid-ness of
>your kids. This is NOT a world made up of all adults, for adults.
>
Oh dear. I see we just have different values. I guess that explains the
"strangeness" of the questions. OK, I'll just tell you what I do. If my
children can't behave like adults in public, they don't go out with me. No
exceptions. I guess I just assumed the same from others. I didn't realize it
was debatable. That explains the kids running around my table the last time I
was eating at a nice restaurant.
Believe me, my kids behave like raving maniacs at home. I just never
considered making others witness it while outside the home.
I think I need to make some more comments about this bf issue. I feel like
this post and questionaire has taken us off track from the original post.
You know someone compared relieving oneself in a store to bf in a store?
Pretty crazy, huh? Well, in some ways it is similar. Women who bf in public
admit openly that people find it offensive and yet they don't agree. Someone
else posted that they don't find it offensive to relieve oneself in public.
So, in that sense, it is similar. Is either person doing it just to annoy
others or because of another reason? I think those reasons are what most
people use to determine whether to be annoyed or accepting. For example,
suppose a perfectly healthy and sane man came into the WalMart and wet on the
floor. I think I might fall on the floor - not near the mess, of course.
However, if a man entered the store and had a mental or health problem and did
the same thing, I would expect him to be helped and an attempt made to minimize
any embarassment he or his companion(s) may feel. I would do all I could to
help. Two examples with the same effect, but different causes. Makes sense to
me!
Now let's look at the bf mother. Suppose she had options and just shrugged off
the feelings of anybody around and the rules and did whatever she wanted. An
example is a nurse-in. We aren't talking nourishment here. We are talking
about a performance just to shock people and attempt to force them to remove
any ideas about nudity or privacy or whatever hangups they grew up with. Yes,
they are hangups, but I still feel the need to respect other people's feelings.
Now look at the example of an upset mother with an upset baby, or terribly
hungry baby. The mother respects the uncomfortable feelings the people in the
store has and yet has no option as far as a dressing-room or whatever. Well,
my belief is that this second mother deserves my sympathy and understanding,
and the motivation and uncaring of the first mother means that she will get my
disapproval. Not that she cares - she doesn't care about what people think,
remember? So really, the point is moot, which makes all of this discussion a
huge waste of time.
For the record, I don't care what others do in public as long as they respect
my space, eardrums, and health.
Now I think I'll put my head back into the sand. I like it better when I
assume the best in people and ignore the reality that people make decisions
based solely on their own interests. If I cussed even in the company of
children and people who are offended by it, I would cuss right now. My
mistake. I will slink away now and join my family...
>--kerri
>
>
>
>
>
>
Colette
have a food-court and encourage eating while you shop.
towery
kerri wrote in message <7ffc07$c...@cocoa.brown.edu>...
>In article <19990418201924...@ng117.aol.com>,
salmo...@aol.com
>says...
>
>>When my children are hungry, I don't shop.
>
>So, then, if the grocery store is a half hour away, and it takes you an
hour to
>shop, AND you have a toddler who needs to eat lunch, but it's 11 a.m., and
you NEED
>to go grocery shopping now, because the toddler's going to need a nap soon,
and the
>baby needs to eat every two hours...
>
>Let me tell you, even with just ONE kid, if I didn't go shopping just
because I
>thought he'd get hungry or have a dirty diaper, well, I'd have to do ALL my
>shopping on the internet...I'd never be allowed out of the house.
>
>>How many people rip open bags of cookies in a
>>grocery store because their poor child needs food now? It just doesn't
make
>>any sense to me. We're talking consideration for the store and the
public.
>
>And how is it inconsiderate to grab a bottle of water and OPEN it while
you're
>shopping? I mean, I can see if you didn't PAY for it when you left...but
people do
>it all the time, and I've never known anyone working at a store to complain
to a
>customer about it.
>
>>It
>>just really saddens me that people feel they have the right to embarrass
>>others.
>
>Me too. I mean, the fact that someone can actually walk up to a woman who
is
>feeding her child and make a *spectacle* of her...
>
>
>>Yes, it is natural. Yes, it is nourishment. Yes, you can probably do
>>it almost anywhere legally. But why? Doesn't it even enter your mind to
be
>>considerate of others? It is really sad.
>
>Yes. It is VERY important to me to be considerate of my child's needs.
>
>
>>Changing diapers is another thing I've seen parents do in the most
>>inappropriate places. It is just common decency to think of others before
>>doing something in public.
>
>Yah. I mean, don't these mothers KNOW that children should be trained to
ONLY poop
>when they're at home?!?!?! Much better to leave the child wallowing in his
own
>feces, to get a diaper rash or worse, than to discretely change his diaper.
>
>
>>You cannot compare fighting for breast-feeding rights to race,
religion,...
>>rights. That is just such a far stretch. I try to be incredibly
considerate
>>to all human beings and just would never feed my child where others won't
>>accept it or rules are written.
>
>Baaaaa.
>
>
>>I see it as being a compassionate human being.
>
>So, you're more worried about being compassionate to strangers than you are
to your
>own child?
>
>>The point I
>>just don't get is why people don't give a flip if others are uncomfortable
with
>>something and just don't care.
>
>Because if we all worried so much about other people's hang-ups, we'd never
be able
>to go out of the house. You know, if I have a cold, but I need some
medicine, I'm
>going to go to the store and get some. Someone might think it's rude of me
to go
>out in public and spread my germs...well, sometimes, *I* am more important
than
>strangers. If someone doesn't want to see me nursing, they can look
away...if
>someone doesn't want to catch my cold, they can wash their hands. But I'm
not going
>to tippy-toe around other people when it's a matter that is important...a
matter of
>eating or getting medicine...
>
>I mean, for crying out loud, men pee in urinals, right next to one another!
>
>
>>I wonder what kind of example parents are setting for their
>>children by saying - if they don't like it, lump it!
>
>But you already said that about the handicapped salesman...what's the
difference?
>Why is one more noble than the other?
>
>>I have to believe that
>>this attitude will come to haunt the parents in the future. I prefer to
teach
>>my children to care about others' feelings.
>
>But what about when others' feelings are something you'd consider
irrational?
>Perhaps someone doesn't want to see you in public because you have bad
fashion
>sense. Does that mean that you should stay home, because you're going to
affect the
>fashion sensibilities of a few folks?
>
>>For those of you who are very discreet, go to the car to breast-feed,
won't do
>>it among friends or acquaintances who are uncomfortable with it, those are
the
>>people I want to share this world with.
>
>Are we a little repressed?
>
>>Those are the considerate,
>>compassionate, and caring people that help make this world a special
place.
>
>Yeah. The ones who fill their childs noses with the smell of urine while
they are
>*respecting* the wants of strangers. What about respecting the needs and
wants of
>your child? How is it considerate, compassionate, and caring to tell me
where I can
>and cannot feed my child?
>
>
>>I
>>imagine those are the same parents who refuse to let their children in
theaters
>>or restaurants if they can't keep their mouths shut,
>
>Oh, great. Now boisterous kids aren't allowed to go out to eat? Sheesh. You
seem
>VERY worried about other people, and have little consideration for the
kid-ness of
>your kids. This is NOT a world made up of all adults, for adults.
>
>--kerri
>
Mary Conner
Jeff Kenwell & Steph Land <ken...@attcanada.net> wrote:
>Thank you for that point Mary. While I don't know yet if I am the sort to
>"let it all hang out", or cover up I really don't think that should make any
>difference in whether my breastfeeding is acceptable or not. The fact is
>that each mother and child needs to work out what is acceptable to them
>societal pressures be damned.
I wanted to post more earlier, but I had a baby to tend to. :)
Beyond the simple fact that having to hide one's breasts makes
breastfeeding more inconvenient, and leads women to wean earlier,
it has other impacts on breastfeeding.
For instance, one reason why women wean is thrush (yeast) infections.
A lot of them wouldn't have to if they knew how to obtain help, but
the fact remains that one of the great anti-yeast treastments is
sunlight. And yet we require that breasts be hidden in a dark, usually
high humidity environment, something that yeast just love.
Some women have trouble getting a newborn latched on. This is largely
due to ignorance about how to go about it. If breastfeeding were carried
out in the open, the simple modeling would go a long way towards helping
women with latching and positioning problems. Even gorillas learn to
nurse their babies by watching other gorillas---or in the case at one
zoo, watching a human mother feed her baby.
So the warped cultural view that we have against the exposure of the
female breast interferes in a lot of ways with breastfeeding. There's
another thread going on around how so many women say they didn't have
enough milk. I've talked with a lot of women who say that, and with
many of them, it became obvious after talking at length with them that
they had great fears about nursing in public, but they're reluctant
to say that they weaned because of those fears. Instead they say
things like, "I couldn't even get to the store and back before he
was hungry again."
So I encourage all people who are pro-breastfeeding to stop meeting
anti-breastfeeding arguments about breast exposure with the platitude
about no breast exposure being necessary. In most cases this is true,
and it's good to reassure moms who are personally embarrassed about
breast exposure that it is unnecessary. But there are situations
where covering up is difficult to impossible. For instance, my baby
has had to be supplemented using an SNS, a device that delivers extra
food through a tube alongside the nipple as the baby suckles. It's
quite difficult to manage this and attempt to cover up, especially for
a newbie. If I decide I must be covered up, I'm severely restricted
in where I can go. Most women would give bottles instead, and risk
involuntary weaning.
Because this warped culural taboo interferes with breastfeeding, I
choose to oppose it instead of meekly opressing myself and all other
women by accepting it.
naomi pardue
> I didn't want to copy the entire post, but I have some comments also.
>
> First, I don't understand why having a baby makes it OK to do anything you
> want.
No, having a baby doesn't make it ok to do anything you want. Having a
baby DOES mean that it becomes necessary to care for the baby.
Someone said they use this judgement - is this a place that
I can feed a
> baby a bottle? I think that is a great line of reasoning.
Yes, it is a good line of reasoning. And this is why, when I was in an
art museum with a baby, and she got hungry, I went to the lobby to nurse
her. I figured they wouldn't want food and drink around the valuable art
objects...
I have never fed my
> children or myself in a department store, even if it is a pathetic Walmart. I
> use this reasoning - if no food or drink is allowed, this applies to
anyone. I
> have seen so many situations where a parent decides that the rules don't apply
> to their child. They give their child a sipper cup of juice, crackers, you
> name it...all while sitting right under the sign requesting no food. I just
> don't get this attitude.
I think that most public places are very understanding about the needs of
young children. If YOU get hungry while shopping, you can hurry up and finish
your errands and then get something to eat. A very young child or a baby
has little or no sense of time, and only knows that she is hungry NOW, and
will scream and cry until fed. If I were another patron in that store, (or
an employee) I would MUCH rather see a child eating a cracker or drinking
from a sippy cup (neither one of which is likely to make a mess or damage
the merchandaise) or even [*gasp*] breastfeeding, than to have t listen to
the baby/child scream for half an hour.
>
> When my children are hungry, I don't shop.
I rarely found myself having to nurse in a store. I would feed Shaina
before I left, and could usually finish up before she got hungry again.
But it happened. And when it did, I found a place to sit down and I fed her.
And no-one ever said a word to me about it.
They get their food at home, in a
> restaurant, or in the car. How many people rip open bags of cookies in a
> grocery store because their poor child needs food now?
As long as the bag is paid for when they get to the check-out (i.e., make
sure you don't damage the bar-code when opening it) why is this a problem?
I've never done that, but I HAVE gotten Shaina a candy bar at the check-out,
slipped the foil wrapped bar out of the wrapper and handed the outer wrapper
to the clerk to scan. NOT because Shaina was so hungry that she HAD to have
the candy this moment, but because there was no reason to not do it.
It just doesn't make
> any sense to me. We're talking consideration for the store and the public.
> Not only is it wrong in my mind to feed a child where food and drink is not
> allowed, there are the uncomfortable feelings surrounding breast-feeding.
YOU have uncomfortable feelings about breastfeeding. Many other people don't.
It
> just really saddens me that people feel they have the right to embarrass
> others.
Unfortunatley, life being what it is, and people having such radically
different ideas of what is 'embarrassing' to them, it is not possible to
guarantee that no-one will ever be embarassed by someone else's actions.
The needs of MY child unfortunately have to override the remote
possibility that someone else in the room MIGHT be embarrassed and MIGHT
have a bar through their neck making it impossible for them to turn their
head and look the other way....
> Changing diapers is another thing I've seen parents do in the most
> inappropriate places. It is just common decency to think of others before
> doing something in public.
Changing diapers falls under the catagory of 'excretory activities.' Most
public places DO have restrooms for such purposes. But if I was someplace
where there were no restrooms, and I needed to change a diaper, I would do
so. Again, while adults can 'hold it,' if necessary, babies can't, and I
would not feel it necessary to make my baby walk around in a dirty/drenched
diaper because someone else might be offended.
> You cannot compare fighting for breast-feeding rights to race, religion,...
> rights. That is just such a far stretch. I try to be incredibly considerate
> to all human beings and just would never feed my child where others won't
> accept it or rules are written.
How do you live your life at all if you NEVER do anything anywhere that
ANYONE else might take issue with it?
> human rights. People equate it to nudity, get embarrassed, and supposedly
> others feel men may get their kicks out of watching it.
And some people get embarrassed about mixed-race couples. Should such couples
never go out in public? Some men get kicks out of women in high heeled shoes.
Should such shoes be banned?
Then why in the heck
> should you do it just to prove something - like staging a nurse-in? I just
> don't get it.
A nurse in is done to remind BUSINESSES that breastfeeding is NOT nudity,
is NOT sex, and is NOT excretion. That breastfeeding is baby-feeding, and
that any business that would allow the giving of a bottle (and again, even
most businesses that generally don't permit food/drink, make exceptions for
bottles), needs to allow the giving of breastmilk from the source.
Then again, I don't understand why men wear shirts too small
> that won't cover their beer bellies, or wear pants that show their cracks when
> they sit down. I can't look at men who do that. No, there is no law against
> it. It also makes me uncomfortable when people sneeze without covering their
> mouths, talk with their mouths full, or floss their teeth at the table in a
> restaurant. Should we have rules protecting those rights too?
>
No, but then too, we don't have store employees going up to these people and
telling them to go into the bathroom. As you correctly note, if you see
something that makes you uncomfortable, the best response is to look
in the other direction.
> take them in there to eat. Public restrooms are a health hazard. The point I
> just don't get is why people don't give a flip if others are uncomfortable with
> something and just don't care.
We DO give a flip, we would much rather that others were NOT
uncomfortable, but we ALSO have to do what we have to do...
It's just not an attitude I will ever be able
> to accept. I wonder what kind of example parents are setting for their
> children by saying - if they don't like it, lump it!
Nope, that's not the attitude. The attitude is, "Sometimes there are
things we have to do that are important and that we believe in. Sometimes
a few other people may disapprove of those actions, but we must not allow
their disapproval to stop us from doing what we KNOW to be right." I
think that's a pretty GOOD lesson to teach our kids, frankly.
Naomi
angela
naomi pardue <npa...@indiana.edu> wrote in message
news:7fi4fo$40n$1...@jetsam.uits.indiana.edu...
> Salmonamie <salmo...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Changing diapers is another thing I've seen parents do in the most
> > inappropriate places. It is just common decency to think of others
before
> > doing something in public.
>
> Changing diapers falls under the catagory of 'excretory activities.' Most
> public places DO have restrooms for such purposes. But if I was someplace
> where there were no restrooms, and I needed to change a diaper, I would do
> so. Again, while adults can 'hold it,' if necessary, babies can't, and I
> would not feel it necessary to make my baby walk around in a
dirty/drenched
> diaper because someone else might be offended.
Ideally, of course, I'd prefer to change my baby's diaper in a restroom with
a changing table, when I'm out in public. If I'm lucky, they provide a
'diaper changing station' (Koala Kare or other similar). But more often than
not, there's not only not a table, but the counter around the sink is too
small to lay baby on. So what can you do? Sometimes the floor is even too
small to kneel down comfortably.
What do some of you do? Obviously, while a baby *might* stay a bit longer
in a wet diaper, I know from first hand experience that dirty diapers are
not a good thing to leave against baby's skin. Do you....change baby on
your car seat? In the trunk on a blanket? What do you do?
--angela
Michelle
<cho...@theglobe.com> wrote:
> What do some of you do? Obviously, while a baby *might* stay a bit longer
> in a wet diaper, I know from first hand experience that dirty diapers are
> not a good thing to leave against baby's skin. Do you....change baby on
> your car seat? In the trunk on a blanket? What do you do?
>
> --angela
Depends on where you are. In a mall or department store, I usually grab a
fitting room stall.
Restaurants are a bit tougher. In an emergency, I'll go out to the car,
but I am always tempted to change a diaper right there in the dining room
just to make a statement (of course, I wouldn't out of courtesy to other
patrons) and always mention it to the management. I don't expect a
changing table at the Ritz Carlton, but c'mon...even most Burger Kings
don't have them around here. If you're going to bill yourself as a family
restaurant, you should provide the basic amenities!
Michelle
Chele
>What do some of you do? Obviously, while a baby *might* stay a bit longer
>in a wet diaper, I know from first hand experience that dirty diapers are
>not a good thing to leave against baby's skin. Do you....change baby on
>your car seat? In the trunk on a blanket? What do you do?
>
>--angela
I have changed my two kids when they were babies, in their strollers while
the seat was reclined all the way back, and the hood up. No one even knew
what we were doing. I have also changed them in the backseat of the car,
and believe it or not, once in the trunk, and in every circumstance, with a
blanket. I was quick about it, and it worked out fine.
Chele :-)
lg
Chele <seac...@uswest.net> wrote in article
<sB2T2.14$Eg5....@news.uswest.net>...
>
>
> >What do some of you do? Obviously, while a baby *might* stay a bit
longer
> >in a wet diaper, I know from first hand experience that dirty diapers
are
> >not a good thing to leave against baby's skin. Do you....change baby on
> >your car seat? In the trunk on a blanket? What do you do?
> >
> >--angela
>
I also have changed our baby in the back seat of the car when necessary
and it works well. I think it really takes some consideration for others
around - especially if it is "number 2" :)! My husband was sat behind a
family on the airplane the other day and someone changed a 3 year old's
ponky diaper right there for everyone to get a good whiff! I've never been
on a flight with our baby for more than an hour so didn't get the chance to
check out the facilities but surely there is something in the lavatories to
change diapers???
Marnie
Beth Starks
> So, because I choose to feed my child from my own body I don't get the same
luxury as others have? I can't sit in my own living room with friendsand feed my
child like a mother who bottle feeds because other people
aren't as mature and can't deal with it. This makes no sense.
Also, I know I don't want to live in a society where I have to go to the car
to feed my child!!!! I don't like eating in the car so why would I want my baby
to have to ? All of this talk about being considerate is a crock, what about
people
being considerate to the bf moms? Heck, we seem to be the only ones
who are comfortable enough with our bodies to do what we have to do in order
to feed our children. I don't have hangups about seeing other people's breasts.
I am and adult for god's sake. And if anything I am overly caring! Hell,
I am willing to feed my child whenever and wherever necessary and I choose
to be the only one who can feed him, how can I get more caring than that!
If I am in Walmart, where they sell beverages IN THE STORE, I am definately
not going to deny my child nourishment if others are sucking down their
Pepsis and slushies right next to me.
And, I think my child will accomplish alot because he has loving parents
who are open to others choices and don't get all worked up over someone
trying to feed their child when they are hungry.
I also have to comment on the idea that we shouldn't breastfeed when
the store does not allow food or drink. Now come on. The whole reasoning
behind that is so the clothes or goods don't get food or drink on them and ruin
them. How much of a mess can my bf child make? NONE! My clothes
might get ruined but that would be about as far as it goes.
I do care about other people, but I have to believe that the majority of people
are mature enough to not be freaked out by a bf mom. There are certainly
worse things out there.
beths and Logan Chicago 9/1/97
>
>
Rachel & Bill
My husband was sat behind a
> family on the airplane the other day and someone changed a 3 year old's
> ponky diaper right there for everyone to get a good whiff! I've never been
> on a flight with our baby for more than an hour so didn't get the chance to
> check out the facilities but surely there is something in the lavatories to
> change diapers???
>
> Marnie
depends on the airline. we've flown southwest and american, and there
were *no* diaper changing facilities on any of the planes.
we either changed in the emergency exit on the floor or across a tray
table. but she was only 6.5 months and breastfed, so no smelly dipes.
i think there's a line between consideration for others and being
rediculous. i frequently have to change my daughter in the car
(dashboard even when she was smaller!), and i usually use changing
tables in restrooms, but if there is no changing table you have to get creative!
:) rachel
--
Rachel, sah, AP mom to Mackenzie Leigh (may 3, '98)
- she's now officially a toddler!
bi...@flash.net http://www.flash.net/~bira (updated 2/99)
Beth Starks
Salmonamie wrote:
> Well, that is what I do. When I am shopping and they are too hungry to
> continue, I simply stop shopping. I don't sit them in the cart with food while
> I continue walking or sit somewhere. I take them to a restaurant or the car,
> or I just go home. I just feel very uncomfortable with handing them drinks and
> food in a store.
Your choice, not mine.
>
>
>
> No, you're just pulling my leg. What's the difference between discrimination
> and ignoring a rule that most everyone can live with because you just feel like
> it? Next you'll be asking why we should help stop ethnic cleansing. No, I
> really refuse to believe you require an answer to that question.
What rule? I thought it was stated that Walmart didn't have any rule, so
what should we have to follow here?
> Well, even if it is irrational, if it is the majority, or a reasonable request,
> then I go along.
So you are saying that the majority of America would rather not have
mothers bf in public? I disagree. >and cannot feed my child?
> Well, I did say I would never tell anyone to feed their child in a bathroom. I
> think you overlooked that statement. You know, I am getting the impression
> that your questions weren't meant to be answered. Perhaps a question from me
> in the same vein will illustrate my point. If you were shopping for furniture
> and your child was hungry, would you pull up a chair to the nearest table or
> sofa (on sale in the store) and pull out juice and crackers? You see, I can do
> it too. I don't think I need anyone to answer this. I prefer to assume the
> answer is obvious. I'm starting to get a little punchy from all of these
> questions.
Sure, I always carry crackers,goldfish or some snack and I always have
water with me for my child. If he was hungry, I would feed him. I would
much rather give him a small cracker to eat than have him crying or screaming
and I don't think something small like offering a cracker is cause to go
home and stop doing what we am doing. If nothing else kids are great that
way, give them a cracker and they are happy as clams.
> Oh dear. I see we just have different values. I guess that explains the
> "strangeness" of the questions. OK, I'll just tell you what I do. If my
> children can't behave like adults in public, they don't go out with me. No
> exceptions. I guess I just assumed the same from others. I didn't realize it
> was debatable. That explains the kids running around my table the last time I
> was eating at a nice restaurant.
I don't expect my child to act like an adult since he is only 1 1/2. So, ifmy
child decides he doesn't like what we are doing do I have to get up and
leave or should I do something in order to make him feel better? I think
we have to look at who is the adult here and who is the child. If I left
somewhere everytime my child decided he was tired of being there, I would
spend 24/7 at home. That is why I am the parent!!! I would never of
course stay at a restaurant if my child was a raving maniac. I know the
boundaries
of politeness.
>
>
> Believe me, my kids behave like raving maniacs at home. I just never
> considered making others witness it while outside the home.
So your kids are true angels everytime you go out? Can I have your
kids?
> \You know someone compared relieving oneself in a store to bf in a store?
> Pretty crazy, huh? Well, in some ways it is similar. Women who bf in public
> admit openly that people find it offensive and yet they don't agree. Someone
> else posted that they don't find it offensive to relieve oneself in public.
> So, in that sense, it is similar. Is either person doing it just to annoy
> others or because of another reason?
Hmmm. Did I bf in public just to annoy others? Hmmm. YES! That was
my sole purpose. I thought, what can I do today that would annoy
others...AHHH YES, bf my child in public! Give me a break!
I think the whole point here is that bf mothers bf their children when they
need to. They don't do it to annoy people, they don't do it just so they
can break some rule, and they don't do it for any other reason other than
their baby needs to eat. I would never use bf as a way to make a point
for anything. I bf because I thought it was best for my child. I didn't do
it to spite my mother, piss of people at Walmart or anything else. I did it
to feed my child. I didn't have any other agenda.
RNR
----------
In article <01be8b5e$8601bc80$e311fea9@lg>, "lg" <laurent...@csi.com> wrote:
> I also have changed our baby in the back seat of the car when necessary
>and it works well. I think it really takes some consideration for others
>around - especially if it is "number 2" :)! My husband was sat behind a
>family on the airplane the other day and someone changed a 3 year old's
>ponky diaper right there for everyone to get a good whiff! I've never been
>on a flight with our baby for more than an hour so didn't get the chance to
>check out the facilities but surely there is something in the lavatories to
>change diapers???
>
>Marnie
Nope. There is the area on the floor in the back, or at the flight
attendants' station. Nothing in the bathrooms.
Regards,
Ranee
When the facts are on your side, argue the facts.
When the law is on your side, argue the law.
When neither is on your side, bang the table and insult your opponents.
Juenge6687
>Not only is it wrong in my mind to feed a child where food and drink is not
>allowed, there are the uncomfortable feelings surrounding breast-feeding. It
>just really saddens me that people feel they have the right to embarrass
>others.
The thing I honestly don't understand is, what exactly about breastfeeding
offends people? And if it does, why do they watch?
>You cannot compare fighting for breast-feeding rights to race, religion,...
>rights. That is just such a far stretch.
I see the right to eat as even more basic and justifiable than racial and
religious rights, not that those aren't very important. Especially for an
infant who doesn't understand "you can't eat here, just wait 10 minutes". To
children young enough to breastfeed, 10 minutes seems like a lifetime,
especially when they are suffering from hunger.
>People equate it to nudity, get embarrassed, and supposedly
>others feel men may get their kicks out of watching it. Then why in the heck
>should you do it just to prove something - like staging a nurse-in?
To show that there are a lot of people who support women being allowed to bf in
public. Since we live in a democracy, we have to abide with whatever the
majority decides, *theoretically*. In practice, there are often very vocal
groups with opinions that are not in the majority and yet get their way just
because no one bothers to oppose them in any organized fashion. I would be
very, very upset if that happened with bf, ie, a minority of people who are
offended by it manage to get laws passed restricting the legal ability to bf in
public places. So I would participate in a nurse-in.
>The point I
>just don't get is why people don't give a flip if others are uncomfortable
>with
>something and just don't care. It's just not an attitude I will ever be able
>to accept.
I agree this is an unfortunate fact of life. I am often subjected to cigarette
smoke by just this sort of person and it angers me too. But I try to just
forget it and move away. We will never be able to change these people, only
our reaction to them. So I feel it is best for my own health and peace of mind
not to get upset by them.
Just my view from here....
Cheryl S.
Tracybob1
hami...@htljn.com (Hamilton) writes:
>There is no place to nurse a baby in a typical public bathroom. Some
>stores have 'lounges' with couches etc -- and when they do, that is
>generally where Moms go to feed their babies.
The mall nearest me just built a wonderful family oriented bathroom area that
includes not only a small play area and separate breastfeeding lounge, but
"family style" bathrooms (individual rooms that have an adult toilet and a
child-sized toilet). I think we would do well to not only patronize these
businesses, but let them know how much we appreciate such amenities.
Tracy
--
My address is a spam block... remove the word "remove" to email me :-)
Liana
wrote:
> I also have changed our baby in the back seat of the car when necessary
> and it works well. I think it really takes some consideration for others
> around - especially if it is "number 2" :)! My husband was sat behind a
> family on the airplane the other day and someone changed a 3 year old's
> ponky diaper right there for everyone to get a good whiff! I've never been
> on a flight with our baby for more than an hour so didn't get the chance to
> check out the facilities but surely there is something in the lavatories to
> change diapers???
>
> Marnie
I have never been in an airplane where the restroom was large enough to
change a baby in. However, I have not been on an international flight
and maybe the restrooms are larger.
Liana
angela
Liana <tkd...@itis.com> wrote in message
news:7fiurj$k...@newsops.execpc.com...
> I have never been in an airplane where the restroom was large enough to
> change a baby in. However, I have not been on an international flight
> and maybe the restrooms are larger.
I know that on British Air trans-Atlantic flights there's a little table
that folds down in the bathroom, basically above the toilet. It's not
wonderful, and for somebody my height it puts baby at shoulder-level or so,
but it *is* a changing table of sorts. Not very convenient, and there's
hardly room to get to the sink or to stand up for that matter once it's
folded down, but when your other choices include your lap....
--angela
angela
lg <laurent...@csi.com> wrote in message
news:01be8b5e$8601bc80$e311fea9@lg...
> I also have changed our baby in the back seat of the car when necessary
> and it works well.
Actually, when you've got a wiggly 30" tall toddler, and the car seat has a
wide base and takes up the middle of the back seat, the back seat is maybe
not so easy a place to change a baby. I've sometimes used the front
passenger seat, but even when placed at an angle across the seat, a big
toddler is too long to be comfortable there for long.
My peeves with the fold-down "Koala Kare" diaper changing tables is a)
they're *never* stocked with the things they're supposed to have, like paper
liners b) god alone knows when they were last disinfected c) there's rarely
a garbage disposal within reach, so if you're handling poopy wet-wipes, it
can be hard to juggle and d) even if the straps are there, the buckles often
don't work. And even if they do, I'm scared of my child falling off. But
I'd still rather use a Koala Kare table than kneel on the dirty restroom
floor to do a change.
--angela
kerri
says...
>My peeves with the fold-down "Koala Kare" diaper changing tables is a)
>they're *never* stocked with the things they're supposed to have, like paper
>liners b) god alone knows when they were last disinfected
ANY changing table, I don't care where it is, if it doesn't have liners (and
I've only ever seen ONE that did), I take off my jacket and put it down on the
table under the baby. If it's summer and I have a shirt over a tank (which is
usually), I'll take the shirt off and put it under him.
Rather take the slight chance of getting poop on me (hasn't happened yet!) than
letting his butt/back/head touch someone else's potential poop.
--kerri
Heidi Carr
> My peeves with the fold-down "Koala Kare" diaper changing tables is a)
> they're *never* stocked with the things they're supposed to have, like
paper
rarely
> a garbage disposal within reach, so if you're handling poopy wet-wipes, it
> can be hard to juggle and d) even if the straps are there, the buckles
often
> don't work. And even if they do, I'm scared of my child falling off. But
> I'd still rather use a Koala Kare table than kneel on the dirty restroom
> floor to do a change.
>
> --angela
>
I always carry one of those waterproof changing pads (large enough to
completely cover where she lays...not just under her bottom) in the diaper
bag with me. They even sell the paper disposable ones now. I also use and
antibacterial towelette and wipe the table down first (you know toddlers and
their hands...grabbing at everything within reach).
~-~-~-~-~~-~-~-~-~~-~-~-~-~~-~-~-~-~~-~-~-~-~
Heidi Carr <hm_...@nospam.donet.com>
Mom to Chris 10/87, Courtney 12/97 and Cameron (looks like it's a
boy!)/Cathryn due 08/99
Sorry for the annoyance, but if you wish to e-mail me please removed
"nospam." from my address. Thanks.
~-~-~-~-~~-~-~-~-~~-~-~-~-~~-~-~-~-~~-~-~-~-~
naomi pardue
kerri <ke...@pobox.com> wrote:
> In article <Sm7T2.1749$qj7....@news14.ispnews.com>, cho...@theglobe.com
> says...
>>My peeves with the fold-down "Koala Kare" diaper changing tables is a)
>>they're *never* stocked with the things they're supposed to have, like paper
>>liners b) god alone knows when they were last disinfected
> ANY changing table, I don't care where it is, if it doesn't have liners (and
> I've only ever seen ONE that did), I take off my jacket and put it down on the
> table under the baby. If it's summer and I have a shirt over a tank (which is
> usually), I'll take the shirt off and put it under him.
My diaper bag came with a changing pad in it. I would put this under Shaina
when I was using a public changing table or, (much more often) when I was
having to change her on the floor of the counter of the sink.
Naomi
Colette
thier paper towels and soap to clean it. I agree it's gross not to have
the liners. If there's not changing table, I don't use the floor in the
bathroom. I'd rather go to the car. I often use the trunk of the car or
backseat (our car seat is behind the driver's side and not the middle. I
have also used the front passenger seat with the back all the reclined.
If it's too hot in the car, I use a blandket/sling and go ot a shady
grassy area and do it on the ground.
What do you do with older kids who have to sit on a public toilet? I
clean it top and bottome and rim. (same as with a changing table). I
thought about buying a plastic seat cover, but I figured I'd still want
to wash the seat first so that any germs wouldn't get on my cover, so it
would just be double-duty.
naomi pardue
Colette <lnrp...@ripco.com> wrote:
> What do you do with older kids who have to sit on a public toilet? I
> clean it top and bottome and rim. (same as with a changing table). I
> thought about buying a plastic seat cover, but I figured I'd still want
> to wash the seat first so that any germs wouldn't get on my cover, so it
> would just be double-duty.
Shaina sits on the toilet, just as I do. I don't let her sit on any
toilet seat that is visibly wet or dirty (we go to a different stall),
but then, I don't either. I DO make sure that she washes her hands well
afterwards, since she often places her hands on the edge of the seat to
help her balance. (Or she used to anyway, I no longer observe her actions
in public bathrooms.)
Naomi