Subject: [NEWS/SOC+] Re: Fat and Body Image (was: Re: [CTTS] ...But she was only being kind)
Noreen Cooper
: Noreen, I don't know your age, but maybe you're too young
: to remember Twiggy - the 60's phenom who would make Kate Moss
: look like one of the buxom women in a Rapheal painting.
: Within my lifetime (I'm 39) thinness has always been IN.
: (Note to Beth: they also called me the Cambodian refugee
: when I was a kid)
:
Sure, I remember Twiggy but I don't remember her being much thinner than
Kate Moss. But Twiggy was a flash in the pan. When I was a young woman
in the seventies, the ideal was to be physically fit. Now the ideal is
zero body fat.
I was in the doctor's office today with my son and paged through a fashion
magazine while waiting. I swear, one model was so thin that you could see
two inch indentations of ribs on her chest. This absolutely infuriates me
that someone two steps away from the hospital is held out as an icon of
beauty. And much as you folks think I shouldn't, I pointed her out to my
son and told her that this woman was too skinny. Frankly, I'd love to see
a national billboard ad which features a similar model with some
accompanying motto which debunks this image as beautiful. By doing so,
I'm not trying to target females who are naturally that way. I once dated
a man who had a 150mph metabolism and I know the struggles he went through
to gain weight. What I object to is the media holding out an ideal which
is dangerous to attempt for *most* females. And young girls are bombarded
with these super thin images and made to feel inadequate unless they diet
down to a bone.
: I don't know where you live, but the statistics don't bear this
: out. The last survey that I heard about (about a year ago) said
: that, in the US, 1/3 of the adults were obese, and that obesity
: was rising among children too.
I'm mostly talking about teenage girls and young women here. For the life
of me, I swear the numbers of super skinny teens when I went to school was
nothing in comparison to the numbers today. It doesn't surprise me that
obesity is on the rise. After years of deprivation during the teen years,
it certainly could guarantee some excess on the other side.
: One thing that hasn't been addressed in this thread is why
: girls and women are so susceptible to images about ideal
: weight. It's not that boys and men aren't inundated with
: this sort of thing as well (remember the 99-lb weakling
: getting sand kicked in his face by the muscly beach bully?).
: Why is it that girls feel the pressure so much more strongly
: than boys? Or do boys also feel pressure to achiev an
: ideal body image?
Part of it, has to do with what is held out as beautiful for boys and
girls, men and women. The fashion and cosmetic industry benefits by
parading unordinary builds (notice, I didn't use the word "freaks" ;-) as
the ideal. Gee, if the average build was lauded as the ideal, what reason
would females have to spend billions of dollars on clothes and cosmetics
to compensate for never matching the current beauty ideal?
The next part of it has to do with the medium of film and television. The
camera is said to add ten pounds to an actor's frame. So the trend has
always been for actresses to diet down lower than the normal standard.
The third part of it has to do with a socialized and genetic component
where females place much importance on relationship. And with kids
watching these super-thin beauties before they can even talk (take a look
at some of the young girl models on commercials these days), both boys and
girls buy into this as the ideal. But, most importantly, the boys buy
into it and the girls follow.
I also believe there is a smoking connection. Rupert Murdoch, who owns
20th Century Fox and Fox T.V., is also on the Board of a very large
tobacco company. It's no coincidence that you see more and more people
smoking in film and television and more super-thin actresses, with
smoking being one of the best appetite suppressants.
And the only way I can see any of this changing is either for some top
film executive to lose a daughter to anorexia or for us to ridicule this
image as beautiful. Since I've never been one to leave things to chance,
I'm starting to tend the flowers in my own back yard.
Noreen Cooper Heavlin
ange...@my-dejanews.com
c...@eos.ucsd.edu wrote:
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.990402...@wahoo.sjsu.edu>,
> Noreen Cooper <nco...@wahoo.sjsu.edu> wrote:
>
> > Part of it, has to do with what is held out as beautiful for boys and
> > girls, men and women. The fashion and cosmetic industry benefits by
> > parading unordinary builds (notice, I didn't use the word "freaks" ;-) as
> > the ideal. Gee, if the average build was lauded as the ideal, what reason
> > would females have to spend billions of dollars on clothes and cosmetics
> > to compensate for never matching the current beauty ideal?
>
> incredibly good-looking, yet men don't succumb to the pressure to
> look like them.
What everyone seems to be missing here is that men and boys ARE NOT immune
to this. I have said it once and I will say it again, eating disorders in
males are just as prevelant as in females, just not as well recognized.
The next time you hear of a young man having to "make weight" for sports
such as wrestling, football, track, etc., I suggest you watch what he
puts himself through. Then watch what he does to get back to the weight
he wants to be. If that isn't an eating disorder, after 20+ years of
dealing with them in myself, I don't know what is.
Just because you don't make yourself puke or starve yourself does not mean
you do not have eating disorders...just that you don't have the *extreme*
disorders that make the news and psychology texts. Perhaps women take it
to the extremes more; however, with more and more media attention on types
such as Fabio, the soloflex type ads and Lucky whatever his name is, the
Diet Coke guy, I suspect that more and more males will be taking it to
extremes before long.
Ask your husband would you rather fit into a size smaller relaxed fit or a
a size larger regular fit and see what he says. I do not believe that men
are somehow immune to all this in the least. They just aren't as vocal.
>
> > The next part of it has to do with the medium of film and television. The
> > camera is said to add ten pounds to an actor's frame. So the trend has
> > always been for actresses to diet down lower than the normal standard.
>
> But this should hold for actors as well as actresses.
It does. Look at all the criticism Stallone came under for "having" to gain
all that weight for the movie _Copland_. All the critics could talk about was
the weight and not the character he plays in the movie. Look at all the
male stars that come under scrutiny if they gain weight. Why is it no one
called "foul" when Brando was portrayed as a mountain of mashed potatoes but
people were outraged at John Belushi's portrayal of an obese Elizabeth Taylor
on SNL?
As far as men having it easier, I have one word, "HAH!" Think about all
those hair club for men and five minute hair color commercials on the
air waves. Plastic surgeons are reporting that up to half of their
business is now coming from men who feel that they need to look younger
in order to be effective in the work place. I hear so much about the mommy
track but I've watched fathers passed over time and time again for
promotions and partnerships because they are active parents. The daddy
track exists but try fighting that and see how far you get.
We do have a double standard. We are teaching our children double
standards. The next time you complain about why do women feel this need
to be unnecessarily thing in front of your kids, think about what you have
really just taught them.
karla
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dawn....@drake.edu
ange...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <7eb077$60l$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> c...@eos.ucsd.edu wrote:
> > In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.990402...@wahoo.sjsu.edu>,
> > Noreen Cooper <nco...@wahoo.sjsu.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Part of it, has to do with what is held out as beautiful for boys and
> > > Gee, if the average build was lauded as the ideal, what reason
> > > would females have to spend billions of dollars on clothes and cosmetics
> > > to compensate for never matching the current beauty ideal?
> >
> > True, but the men in GQ are also not the average build. They're
> > incredibly good-looking, yet men don't succumb to the pressure to
> > look like them.
>
> What everyone seems to be missing here is that men and boys ARE NOT immune
> to this. I have said it once and I will say it again, eating disorders in
> males are just as prevelant as in females, just not as well recognized.
Where do you get that information? The National Association for Anorexia
Nervosa and Other Disorders says that 90 percent of the 8 million anorexia/
bulemia victims in the US are women. Check out:
http://healthtouch.com/level1/leaflets/anad/anad001.htm
The info says "male cases are being reported with increasing frequency"
but that is not the same as saying eating disorders are "just as prevalent..."
> The next time you hear of a young man having to "make weight" for sports
> such as wrestling, football, track, etc., I suggest you watch what he
> puts himself through. Then watch what he does to get back to the weight
> he wants to be. If that isn't an eating disorder, after 20+ years of
> dealing with them in myself, I don't know what is.
I disagree. Having worked as a residence hall director on a college campus
with a student population that included wrestlers, football players, track
athletes and basketball players, along with numerous women with eating
disorders, I *have* seen both phenomena and IME they are very different.
First off, I never, ever, saw a male athlete other than a wrestler try to lose
weight. Just the opposite. Now, *female* track athletes and some other
*female* athletes were encouraged to lose weight, but not the men. And even
in the wrestlers, the goal was never to achieve a physical ideal, but to
compete at a specific level. They left with *no* long-term desire/manic need
to be at their wrestling weight. Their habits were far from healthy, but
devoid of the emotional dynamic that characterzes anorexia/bulimia.
Contrast that with the women who were obsessed with staying a specific
weight because they believed it defined *who they were.*
The male anorexics/bulemics I have seen tend to be gay. *They* were
falling for that same sort of idealized body image. But they were rare.
When you talk about a relatively small subset of the male gay population,
you are not talking about "just as many" men as women.
So, while I would caution *all* parents of older kids to watch for eating
disorders, I would *not* support the idea that parents of boys need
to be just as concerned. That isn't my experience, and the research doesn't
show it.
As the parent of a boy, then, my role in the "war on eating disorders" will
lean much more toward teaching about a healthy attitude toward *all* body
types (including the very thin and the very heavy) in the hopes that my son
will be a part of the solution.
----------
Dawn Price
Mom to Henry, 6