your opinion please (re: baby traveling away from mom)
oregonchick
US). He travels back there for business trips about once a year, and this
year it will probably be in August. He wants to take the baby with him to
drop off at his parents while he is there on business for a whole week.
Emily will be 8 months at that time. My husband will not be staying at the
house for that time period. He assures me that his mother will take perfect
care of Emily, but I feel sooo uncomfortable with this on so many levels.
Regardless of whether or not she takes perfect care, I can't imagine her
being gone for a whole week, being so far away, etc. Of course his parents
will have very limited opportunities to see their ONLY grandchild, so I feel
a little guilty.
Opinions?
Betsy
Beth Kevles
Hi --
Can you go too? It *is* reasonable to make sure that grandparents and
grandkids spend time together. But it's NOT reasonable for such a young
child to spend that kind of time without parents present as well, and
you say your husband won't be around for most of the week.
I vote that you and the baby travel together to Germany and spend a week
bonding with the grandparents *together* if at all possible. If it's
not possible, invite the grandparents to visit you in the US.
In the meantime, send lots of photos and videos, and phone often!
--Beth Kevles
bethk...@aol.com
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.
NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.
Rebecca Jo
If you can't go too, I definitely would not do this. I can't imagine leaving
my child with anyone for that long without a parent around.
rj
Sidheag McCormack
He wants to leave the baby with his parents, who are presumably not well
known to the baby, without either parent, for a week? My opinion of that is
untypable in a family newsgroup. Let's settle for "no way". And also, let's
remark that it may be much harder then than it would be now, because she
may be getting into separation anxiety by then (it seems to vary a lot from
child to child, both in timing and in severity, though).
If you can possibly go too, that sounds like the obvious better answer -
but presumably if you could this wouldn't be being proposed in the first
place?
Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003
toypup
"oregonchick" <not_...@comcat.net> wrote in message
news:yc-dnbcF4op...@comcast.com...
Same as everyone else. I vote for going with the baby or bringing the
grandparents over. No way would I leave the baby with strangers (and they
are strangers to the baby) for that period of time. They may also have a
different parenting style than you that you may not agree with. I find
grandparents sometimes have been without kids so long, they forget how kids
can be. MIL left a hot curling iron out withing reach of DS when he was a
toddler and he burned his hand on it. They just forget.
Workingmom
I would never do it. Never.
Listen to your feelings - that's what you have them for. We're not
taught to be parents - we only have our feelings to go by. They're made
that way to protect our kids.
Can't you go with them? Wouldn't you be nursing still at that time
(hint: so it will be 'impossible')?
Tine, Denmark (not so far from Germany)
Jess
> US). He travels back there for business trips about once a year, and this
> year it will probably be in August. He wants to take the baby with him to
> drop off at his parents while he is there on business for a whole week.
> Emily will be 8 months at that time. My husband will not be staying at
> the house for that time period.
Not a prayer's chance in hell. Leave her with someone she doesn't know for a
week while you stay stateside and he's out doing business? I think not.
Check up on Eurail passes.
Jess
Sarah Barnett
No way. I am from Europe and live in the States and there's no way I would
do that. Apart from the fact that I was still nursing at 8 months old
there's no way I would ship my baby off so far so spend a week with people
she had never met even if it was family. Your daughter won't understand that
these are her grandparents and everything's ok. All she will know is that
Mama and Daddy aren't there.
Sarah
Katheryn 01.28.02
EDD 09.16.06
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Show your support for breastfeeding
http://www.cafepress.com/breastbenefits
http://www.cafepress.com/bmiab
Irrational Number
> My husband is from Germany. All his family is still there (We're in the
> US). He travels back there for business trips about once a year, and this
> year it will probably be in August. He wants to take the baby with him to
> drop off at his parents while he is there on business for a whole week.
> Emily will be 8 months at that time.
No.
-- Anita --
Jo
Heck no. That is too young. I would never do it.
My husbands mother flew over from the UK to see Ronnie and would have
never have considered asking me to seperate myself from my child.
We are very different in opinions about feeding, sleeping and
everything, but that is one issue that she is against. I think a lot of
it has to do with WW2 and many families sending their kids off with
other people in the country to keep them safe. (Southern English) and
the thought of a mother being away from her child horrifies her.
I feel bad you have a hard choice. If you can go, I would say do it.
Europe is lovely and you will have a good time.
Jo
hoof...@hotmail.co.uk
Personally I wouldn't agree and just live with a little guilt. Even
though ds (9 mths) has spent many Sundays with his grandparents he has
started to get separation anxiety in the last few weeks. He is fine
when we leave him and has a lovely time but cries when we return and
immediately wants to cuddle and nurse. On Saturday I left him for the
first time with his dad and other granny (my mum) to go and see Cats,
and worried like hell over that. Even when he was being held by my mum
he was looking around for me. I can't begin to imagine what a week away
from him would be like and I wouldn't leave him with strangers that
long (which is what your dh's parents are to Emily). I reckon go with
your gut. Yes she is their grandchild, but she is your baby. I do
sympathise with your dilema, sometimes you just can't please everyone
can you.
Jeni
peggy-o
Especially if the baby had never been with them before. I would see if
you guys could splurge and have you go as well. It would be nice if you
could all be together. Im sure that his parents would never do anything
to harm the baby but depending on how old they are and how old
fashioned they are they might handle situations differently. I mean
when was that last time they cared for an infant that young 24hrs day???
oregonchick
"Beth Kevles" <kev...@mit.edu> wrote in message
news:44537f91$0$560$b45e...@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu...
>
> Hi --
>
> Can you go too?
Well, we've been trying to be more frugal since I've opted not to go back to
work for a while longer with a new baby at home. Summer airfare to Germany
is astronomical...
We may be going back this Christmas, if things go well.
oregonchick
"Sidheag McCormack" <avoid.spa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:m38xpo7...@geilo.lan...
> oregonchick writes:
>
> > My husband is from Germany. All his family is still there (We're in the
> > US). He travels back there for business trips about once a year, and
> > this year it will probably be in August. He wants to take the baby with
> > him to drop off at his parents while he is there on business for a whole
> > week. Emily will be 8 months at that time. My husband will not be
> > staying at the house for that time period. He assures me that his mother
> > will take perfect care of Emily, but I feel sooo uncomfortable with this
> > on so many levels. Regardless of whether or not she takes perfect care,
> > I can't imagine her being gone for a whole week, being so far away, etc.
> > Of course his parents will have very limited opportunities to see their
> > ONLY grandchild, so I feel a little guilty.
>
> He wants to leave the baby with his parents, who are presumably not well
> known to the baby, without either parent, for a week? My opinion of that
> is
> untypable in a family newsgroup. Let's settle for "no way".
I understand your strong reaction, but for me there's no need to react like
this as my husband supports my decision no matter what it is. But my gut
said the same thing that you did.
oregonchick
"peggy-o" <sherris...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1146441145....@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Um, like 40 years ago... and lets face it, things were alot different back
then, especially in Europe (compared to the US)
>
Mum of Two
I wouldn't do that now, with my 22 month old. She's breastfeeding, but
regardless of that it would upset her no end. There would have to be a hell
of a more important reason than 'giving the grandparents time with the
kids'. They must take an extremely naive view, or just don't want to see
that the reality of the situation is that they'll have an upset, unsettled,
disturbed child for most of the time who won't love them anymore for it.
My daughter was gradually accustomed to spending longer periods of time away
from me when she was 11 months and I went back to work part time. And then,
it was with the grandparents she knew.
--
Amy
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
http://www.freewebs.com/carlos2002/
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/ana%5Fj%5F2004/
My blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/querer-hijo-querer-hija/
oregonchick
"Mum of Two" <don't_sp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:445563df$1...@clear.net.nz...
> "oregonchick" <not_...@comcat.net> wrote in message
> news:yc-dnbcF4op...@comcast.com...
>> My husband is from Germany. All his family is still there (We're in the
>> US). He travels back there for business trips about once a year, and
>> this year it will probably be in August. He wants to take the baby with
>> him to drop off at his parents while he is there on business for a whole
>> week. Emily will be 8 months at that time. My husband will not be
>> staying at the house for that time period. He assures me that his mother
>> will take perfect care of Emily, but I feel sooo uncomfortable with this
>> on so many levels. Regardless of whether or not she takes perfect care, I
>> can't imagine her being gone for a whole week, being so far away, etc.
>> Of course his parents will have very limited opportunities to see their
>> ONLY grandchild, so I feel a little guilty.
>>
>> Opinions?
>
> I wouldn't do that now, with my 22 month old. She's breastfeeding, but
> regardless of that it would upset her no end. There would have to be a
> hell of a more important reason than 'giving the grandparents time with
> the kids'. They must take an extremely naive view, or just don't want to
> see that the reality of the situation is that they'll have an upset,
> unsettled, disturbed child for most of the time who won't love them
> anymore for it.
> My daughter was gradually accustomed to spending longer periods of time
> away from me when she was 11 months and I went back to work part time. And
> then, it was with the grandparents she knew.
Well, I guess I didn't include enough details. It was my husband's idea,
not the grandparents. I don't even think they know that he had considered
it. And he only brought it up to see how I felt about it - he has never had
children before, and is kind of naive to what would really be involved in
doing this. But he does now!
Mum of Two
> Well, I guess I didn't include enough details. It was my husband's idea,
> not the grandparents. I don't even think they know that he had considered
> it. And he only brought it up to see how I felt about it - he has never
> had children before, and is kind of naive to what would really be involved
> in doing this. But he does now!
Oh, well that makes more sense! Most new fathers wouldn't understand the
effect something like that could have on a child, unless they'd had a lot of
contact with young children. For that matter, I don't think a lot of new
mothers would either; I was very naive about that while pregnant.
Amy
Absolutely not. I think the very suggestion is hideous. If they are
so hot to see the baby, they can come visit YOU for a week, and see
their only grandchild in her home, where she's with her mother and
won't be traumatized by being separated from you for that long. Or, if
you want to travel, you can go with her and stay with her at his
parents for a week, but there is NO way that I would allow my daughter
to go anywhere for that long without me. None. Not under any
circumstances in the world. Not even if I were in the hospital or
something. Good God...
My daughter is 8.5 months right now, and she is having major stranger
anxiety (and, related to your daughter or not, these people are
strangers to her!). If I am out of sight, she screams. My mom (who
she knows well, and has seen on a regular basis since she was born)
tried to take her in another room to show her off today, and the minute
I was out of her sight, DD was throwing her body in the direction of
the room where I was and screaming. There is no way on earth that I
would let her out of the building I was in for a day, much less out of
the country for a week.
You shouldn't feel guilty for one minute. I think your husband is
insane for suggesting it. And if your MIL went along with it, or
suggested it in any way, I think it is very telling... I wouldn't
trust someone who thinks it's ok for a child that young to be away from
her mother for a week to watch my kid for an hour. Even if your
husband were going to be there, it wouldn't be ok. It is not ok until
she's old enough to understand what's going on. Think of it from her
point of view, with her limited ability to understand the world. What
would she think had happened? All of a sudden, she's in a strange
house, with strange people, and strange smells, speaking a strange
language that she doesn't understand, with nothing that reminds her of
home? Oh my God, it's a horrible thought. Do NOT do it. And don't
feel guilty at all - that's ridiculous. You are her MOTHER. You're
her world right now. She doesn't care about anything but having you
with her. You are the source of all safety and comfort and happiness
in her tiny little world. Don't do this to her.
Amy
Workingmom
> I wouldn't do that now, with my 22 month old. She's breastfeeding, but
> regardless of that it would upset her no end. There would have to be a hell
> of a more important reason than 'giving the grandparents time with the
> kids'. They must take an extremely naive view, or just don't want to see
> that the reality of the situation is that they'll have an upset, unsettled,
> disturbed child for most of the time who won't love them anymore for it.
> My daughter was gradually accustomed to spending longer periods of time away
> from me when she was 11 months and I went back to work part time. And then,
> it was with the grandparents she knew.
>
>
Their view can be influenced by the fact that most mothers work in
Europe, so most kids of age 8 mos is in some kind of daycare all day.
That doesn't mean it's a good idea, and 8 mos is a delicate age.
Tine, Denmark
Workingmom
Maybe if the GP would like to see you they could invite you (read: pay
your ticket). It would be cheaper than having both of them travel, and
probably nicer for them to be at home.
Airfares are MUCH cheaper if you decide and book (and pay) 6 mos in
advance. The few cheap tickets there usually are on each plane are gone
fairly quickly. Also if you book on the internet it can occationally be
cheaper to book it as if you lived in Germany (as two single tickets if
necessary). Let the GPs send the ticket to you. Check out the prices as
US resident and DE resident.
Tine, Denmark, employee of a European airline for the last 7 years.
Jan Moes
"Workingmom" <ditmar-...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:EIh5g.12519$LN....@news.get2net.dk...
>
> Their view can be influenced by the fact that most mothers work in
> Europe, so most kids of age 8 mos is in some kind of daycare all day.
>
Not in Germany. Germany is as old-fashioned as The Netherlands in these.
Jan
Sue
> Absolutely not. I think the very suggestion is hideous. If they are
> so hot to see the baby, they can come visit YOU for a week, and see
> their only grandchild in her home, where she's with her mother and
> won't be traumatized by being separated from you for that long.
The grandparents did not make the suggestion. Hubby did and in the last
post, hubby didn't realize what a traumatic experience it could be.
>Or, if
> you want to travel, you can go with her and stay with her at his
> parents for a week, but there is NO way that I would allow my daughter
> to go anywhere for that long without me. None. Not under any
> circumstances in the world. Not even if I were in the hospital or
> something. Good God...
Sometimes life gets in the way. I am glad that you don't have any
circumstances in your life to ever be away. I hope it stays that way. I had
to be away from my kids during some points of their lives because of DD1
special needs and being in the hospital for months at a time. Middle daugher
was around 8 months when DD1 had to be in the hospital. I had to have
strangers/family/friends/husband keep her. It wasn't the end of the earth
for her because I have made sure that my kids are exposed to other people
for this very reason. Then I had to be away when DD3 was 4 and DD2 was 5 for
three months, again for a hospitalization. It was harder because they were
older, but again since I have exposed them to other people, they did fine.
And of course dad was with them as much as he could. I think your untrusting
of people is really OTT. Sometimes a person just cannot help situations. The
OP situation is of course optional, but still I have left my girls with my
mom so hubby and I could go on a trip. I trust my family and I trust the
people that cared for my kids when I couldn't be there.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
Leslie
I think it would be traumatic for the baby, not to mention to you! One
day, when she is ten or eleven or twelve, and SHE wants to go, it will
be a great adventure for her.
Leslie
hoof...@hotmail.co.uk
Mum of Two wrote:
> "oregonchick" <not_...@comcat.net> wrote in message
> news:2JGdnf56PsO09cjZ...@comcast.com...
>
> > Well, I guess I didn't include enough details. It was my husband's idea,
> > not the grandparents. I don't even think they know that he had considered
> > it. And he only brought it up to see how I felt about it - he has never
> > had children before, and is kind of naive to what would really be involved
> > in doing this. But he does now!
>
> Oh, well that makes more sense! Most new fathers wouldn't understand the
> effect something like that could have on a child, unless they'd had a lot of
> contact with young children. For that matter, I don't think a lot of new
> mothers would either; I was very naive about that while pregnant.
Me too. Dp and I talked a bit before he was born about going abroad
without ds . As soon as he arrived we both realised practically and
emotionally this wouldn't work and we wouldn't want to do it even if it
would. In the early days it took a while for dp to 'get' things. Like
why I was upset when one family member suggested I wasn't doing the
right thing to get ds to nap - (turns out I was!). It wasn't until he
spent more than a couple of days with ds over Christmas (excluding his
2 weeks paternity leave) that he really understood why it was so
important ds nap and how a change of environment and routine upset
that. I did an awful lot of reading when trying to sort his sleeping
and so am aware earlier of things like separation anxiety. Dp only saw
it first hand the first time when we picked ds from his grans and he
cried. I knew instantly what the problem was and how to deal with it.
But sometimes I forget that things that seem obvious to me simpy might
not occur to dp. Being at work he just doesn't spend nearly the same
amount of time with ds or much of that thinking about ds. I guess it's
the same for many working dad's (or mum's for SAH dad's) so as Amy
said, most might have thought it ok too.
Jeni
oregonchick
"Jan Moes" <jan...@bestaatnietes.invalid> wrote in message
news:4455f812$0$5023$e4fe...@dreader27.news.xs4all.nl...
that's my impression too
Amy
Sue wrote:
> "Amy" <amyea...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > Absolutely not. I think the very suggestion is hideous. If they are
> > so hot to see the baby, they can come visit YOU for a week, and see
> > their only grandchild in her home, where she's with her mother and
> > won't be traumatized by being separated from you for that long.
>
> The grandparents did not make the suggestion. Hubby did and in the last
> post, hubby didn't realize what a traumatic experience it could be.
I use google groups - it didn't show up right away that it was her
husband's idea.
> >Or, if
> > you want to travel, you can go with her and stay with her at his
> > parents for a week, but there is NO way that I would allow my daughter
> > to go anywhere for that long without me. None. Not under any
> > circumstances in the world. Not even if I were in the hospital or
> > something. Good God...
>
> Sometimes life gets in the way. I am glad that you don't have any
> circumstances in your life to ever be away. I hope it stays that way. I had
> to be away from my kids during some points of their lives because of DD1
> special needs and being in the hospital for months at a time. Middle daugher
> was around 8 months when DD1 had to be in the hospital. I had to have
> strangers/family/friends/husband keep her. It wasn't the end of the earth
> for her because I have made sure that my kids are exposed to other people
> for this very reason. Then I had to be away when DD3 was 4 and DD2 was 5 for
> three months, again for a hospitalization.
There is a gigantic difference between leaving your child in the care
of people who are known to her because another child is in the hospital
(especially when they are 4 and 5 and able to understand what's going
on) and sending an infant to a foreign country to be cared for for a
long period of time by people she has never met. To compare the two is
absurd.
> It was harder because they were
> older, but again since I have exposed them to other people, they did fine.
You imply that my daughter isn't exposed to other people - like the two
of us are holed up in the house all day with the curtains drawn - which
is complete and utter bullshit. She goes to WORK with me every single
day, and is exposed to a wide variety of people - from other people who
work in our building, to the UPS man, to the servers at restaurants,
etc. She goes out among people more than any other baby I know!
> And of course dad was with them as much as he could.
> I think your untrusting of people is really OTT.
Well, Sue, I think we've proven in other threads that our parenting
philosophies differ, and since you have three kids to my one, you've
decided that you're the lord high poobah of child rearing, and I know
nothing, but we'll see in 20 years whose kids are happier, ok?
I think your judgmentalism and superiority are OTT, so I guess we're
even.
> Sometimes a person just cannot help situations. The
> OP situation is of course optional,
...and so vastly different from the situation you describe that the two
are practically incomparable...
> but still I have left my girls with my
> mom so hubby and I could go on a trip.
As infants? I think that's wrong. I'm not afraid to say it.
> I trust my family and I trust the
> people that cared for my kids when I couldn't be there.
I trust my family. But they're not her mother. There is nothing I
have to be and nowhere I have to be that is more important than being
with her right now. When she's 4 or 5, I will gladly ship her off to
my hometown (90 minutes away) for overnights with her grandparents, but
right now she's a baby, and she deserves to be treated like one.
Amy
Sue
> of people who are known to her because another child is in the hospital
> (especially when they are 4 and 5 and able to understand what's going
> on) and sending an infant to a foreign country to be cared for for a
> long period of time by people she has never met. To compare the two is
> absurd.
It was a reaction to you saying that you wouldn't even if you were in the
hospital. That was in correlation with my response about DD1 being in the
hospital and me having to have other caregivers. It had nothing to do with
the OP and her trip.
> You imply that my daughter isn't exposed to other people - like the two
> of us are holed up in the house all day with the curtains drawn - which
> is complete and utter bullshit. She goes to WORK with me every single
> day, and is exposed to a wide variety of people - from other people who
> work in our building, to the UPS man, to the servers at restaurants,
> etc. She goes out among people more than any other baby I know!
Nope, I wasn't implying anything. You are reading too much into what I was
saying. I did imply that you don't use sitters like I did though and that
you won't leave her with anyone. I get from your messages that you don't
trust too many people and that was what I am responding to. I find your
mistrust kind of worrisome, but maybe I am too trusting. Who knows. I did
leave my kids and/or babies with sitters to people I have come to trust and
know. I compare my three kids because two were left with my mom when I
needed her to or even if I just needed a break and my third child was not
left with anyone because my mom died and I didn't have anyone else. DD3 is
definitely more reluctant to stay with caregivers or other people. So I
concluded in my own little study that I did the other two girls a favor by
exposing them more to other people. That's it. Nothing more.
> Well, Sue, I think we've proven in other threads that our parenting
> philosophies differ, and since you have three kids to my one, you've
> decided that you're the lord high poobah of child rearing, and I know
> nothing, but we'll see in 20 years whose kids are happier, ok?
Sounds like you are the one on the high horse. I have never professed to
have this parenting thing down. But, I definitely believe that children (or
at least mine) do better when they are exposed to others (my little study
again). I do have more experience than you do though and I am more relaxed
with parenting than when I was a new mother. So maybe that's what you are
picking up on.
Sue wrote:
> > but still I have left my girls with my
> > mom so hubby and I could go on a trip.
Amy wrote:
> As infants? I think that's wrong. I'm not afraid to say it.
Yep as infants. And no it wasn't horrible. The kids and my mom had a blast
together and I got a much needed break. There was another time my best
freind kept the kids (I think DD3 was about a year old). It's hard caring
for a special needs child and when you do it day in and day out with no
breaks, it grinds on a person. So having a trip here and there or a night
out, was a much needed break.
>I trust my family. But they're not her mother. There is nothing I
>have to be and nowhere I have to be that is more important than being
>with her right now.
I guess that's where we differ, because I carried on with my life and went
back to work when I could because it didn't bother me to have the girls in
the care of people who loved her too.
oregonchick
"Sue" <sburk...@wideopenwest.com> wrote in message
news:BL6dnZkUba1...@wideopenwest.com...
> Amy wrote:
>> As infants? I think that's wrong. I'm not afraid to say it.
>
> Yep as infants. And no it wasn't horrible. The kids and my mom had a blast
> together and I got a much needed break. There was another time my best
> freind kept the kids (I think DD3 was about a year old). It's hard caring
> for a special needs child and when you do it day in and day out with no
> breaks, it grinds on a person. So having a trip here and there or a night
> out, was a much needed break.
I have been leaving Emily with a close friend since she was about 6 wks old
to go skiing. I do NOT regret this, and credit my breaks away with pulling
me out of ppd. I took alot of flack for it here, but still feel it was best
for me. People get so damned opinionated...
toypup
"Workingmom" <ditmar-...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:EIh5g.12519$LN....@news.get2net.dk...
> Their view can be influenced by the fact that most mothers work in Europe,
> so most kids of age 8 mos is in some kind of daycare all day.
I work part-time, and my kids are in daycare the whole day I'm gone. I
would never let them go spend time with grandparents they don't know in
Europe, and they are 4 & 2 yo.
Notchalk
> My husband is from Germany. All his family is still there (We're in
> the US). He travels back there for business trips about once a year,
> and this year it will probably be in August. He wants to take the baby
> with him to drop off at his parents while he is there on business for a
> whole week. Emily will be 8 months at that time. My husband will not
> be staying at the house for that time period. He assures me that his
> mother will take perfect care of Emily, but I feel sooo uncomfortable
> with this on so many levels. Regardless of whether or not she takes
> perfect care, I can't imagine her being gone for a whole week, being so
> far away, etc. Of course his parents will have very limited
> opportunities to see their ONLY grandchild, so I feel a little guilty.
>
> Opinions?
>
> Betsy
hmm, it's making me feel sick in the stomach just thinking about it.
It's stressing me out! Don't do it. That's my pretty strong gut
instinct.
Jo
--
Woman, Wife, Mother, Midwife
Amy
Sue wrote:
> "Amy" <amyea...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > There is a gigantic difference between leaving your child in the care
> > of people who are known to her because another child is in the hospital
> > (especially when they are 4 and 5 and able to understand what's going
> > on) and sending an infant to a foreign country to be cared for for a
> > long period of time by people she has never met. To compare the two is
> > absurd.
>
> It was a reaction to you saying that you wouldn't even if you were in the
> hospital. That was in correlation with my response about DD1 being in the
> hospital and me having to have other caregivers. It had nothing to do with
> the OP and her trip.
She's nursing. I'm pump resistant. She won't take bottles. Until
she's a year old, if I have to be hospitalized, she would come with me.
In fact, I already spoke to the doctor about this, back when I had
bronchitis and I was afraid I might be hospitalized, and he agreed with
me.
Even if those factors weren't an issue, though, it would still require
something more dire than hospitalization to keep me away from her for
more than an hour or two. Over the course of her entire life, I have
spent 20 hours away from her - cumulative. I don't feel that anything
else is responsible mothering - unless a family's financial situation
truly won't allow a mother to be at home for the first year. YMMV.
> > You imply that my daughter isn't exposed to other people - like the two
> > of us are holed up in the house all day with the curtains drawn - which
> > is complete and utter bullshit. She goes to WORK with me every single
> > day, and is exposed to a wide variety of people - from other people who
> > work in our building, to the UPS man, to the servers at restaurants,
> > etc. She goes out among people more than any other baby I know!
>
> Nope, I wasn't implying anything. You are reading too much into what I was
> saying. I did imply that you don't use sitters like I did though and that
> you won't leave her with anyone.
She has stayed at home with a friend of mine and with my mother while
DH and I went out - each time we were gone for less than two hours (in
other words, we were home in time for the next nurse).
I think you're pissed that your daughter can't find babysitting jobs,
and you've decided that every mother everywhere is overprotective as a
result, which just isn't true.
> I get from your messages that you don't
> trust too many people and that was what I am responding to. I find your
> mistrust kind of worrisome, but maybe I am too trusting. Who knows.
I trust others just fine, but they are not her MOTHER. I think it's
sad that you think that your role in your children's life is so mundane
that you can be replaced by any paid substitute. I'm not sure if that
reflects low self-esteem or what, but it's sad.
> I did
> leave my kids and/or babies with sitters to people I have come to trust and
> know. I compare my three kids because two were left with my mom when I
> needed her to or even if I just needed a break and my third child was not
> left with anyone because my mom died and I didn't have anyone else. DD3 is
> definitely more reluctant to stay with caregivers or other people. So I
> concluded in my own little study that I did the other two girls a favor by
> exposing them more to other people. That's it. Nothing more.
I find it interesting that you think that "able to be left with others"
is a skill that needs to be developed at 8.5 months old. I don't think
so. In fact, I probably won't really leave her with anyone until she's
2, at which time she'll start pre-school 4 hours a day (because studies
have shown that up to 20 hours of pre-school/daycare per week is
actually beneficial for social development). I believe that my
availability and consistency in her early two years will cause her to
be MORE confident and independant later on. Read Sears - I'm not going
to rewrite his whole philosophy. I believe in attachment parenting.
It's the way I was raised (although they didn't call it that, then),
and my mom and I are close, and I am successful and independant.
That's what I want for my daughter.
> > Well, Sue, I think we've proven in other threads that our parenting
> > philosophies differ, and since you have three kids to my one, you've
> > decided that you're the lord high poobah of child rearing, and I know
> > nothing, but we'll see in 20 years whose kids are happier, ok?
>
> Sounds like you are the one on the high horse.
Now who's reading what in? I am saying that NO ONE knows whether or
not their parenting style works until 20 years later. You do what you
can live with, and I'll do what I can live with. If I want to sit here
and be appalled that you think it's ok for oregonchick to let her
husband take their child out of the country and leave her with
strangers for a week while he's running all over Europe, it doesn't
hurt you any. She asked for opinions, and I gave mine.
> I have never professed to
> have this parenting thing down. But, I definitely believe that children (or
> at least mine) do better when they are exposed to others (my little study
> again).
My daughter is exposed to "others" every single day.
>I do have more experience than you do though and I am more relaxed
> with parenting than when I was a new mother. So maybe that's what you are
> picking up on.
No, I think I'm picking up on your superior attitude, in general.
> Sue wrote:
> > > but still I have left my girls with my
> > > mom so hubby and I could go on a trip.
>
> Amy wrote:
> > As infants? I think that's wrong. I'm not afraid to say it.
>
> Yep as infants. And no it wasn't horrible.
My mileage varies.
> The kids and my mom had a blast
> together and I got a much needed break. There was another time my best
> freind kept the kids (I think DD3 was about a year old). It's hard caring
> for a special needs child and when you do it day in and day out with no
> breaks, it grinds on a person. So having a trip here and there or a night
> out, was a much needed break.
In that situation, I would have left the older two and taken the baby
with me.
> >I trust my family. But they're not her mother. There is nothing I
> >have to be and nowhere I have to be that is more important than being
> >with her right now.
>
> I guess that's where we differ, because I carried on with my life and went
> back to work when I could because it didn't bother me to have the girls in
> the care of people who loved her too.
I just LOVE it when mothers say "my life went on," or talk about their
"me" time... This IS my life. I want it this way. Nothing makes me
happier or more fulfilled than raising my little girl. It is the
single most important thing I have ever done, or will ever do. I had
30 years of "me time" before I had her, and I'll have plenty when she's
running around with her friends, or when she leaves home. These first
two years, though, when she needs me so much, when I am the center of
her little world - they don't last, and I am going to enjoy it and be
present for it and make sure that I am there for her in every way that
I can be. I am going to be responsive to her needs, and I am not going
to let her cry. The days when I can fix all of her problems with a
cuddle and a nurse don't last - why would I want to push her out of my
arms?
I have a very balanced life - I work. I have friends. I do things
that I enjoy. But I do them with her around - she comes to work with
me. She comes out with me. Yeah, I've missed a few late parties and
meetings, but so what? It is infinitely more important that I be here
to tuck her into bed than it is that I go to a stupid party. There
will be plenty of time for parties when she's bigger.
I do not have a bucket baby - the kind who are in their car seat 24/7 -
with a bottle propped up on a blanket and plugged into their mouth. My
daughter is, and has been since day one, up in my arms or in the Baby
Bjorn and looking at people in the eye. She is engaged in the world
around her. She is signing already, and talking, and she's going to
walk any minute. Everyone who sees her comments on how intelligent she
looks, and how she seems more "plugged in" to the world than other
babies - and indeed, we spent time with 5 other babies over the
weekend, and the difference between my kid and the others was
remarkable. A friend of mine asked why she doesn't have a flat spot on
the back of her head like my friend's daughter has - I replied,
"Because I don't put her down." My friend's daughter spends the bulk
of her time in the stroller, the car seat, the pack and play - my kid
won't stand for that. It's exhausting keeping her busy. It is tiring
to keep her entertained 24/7, and it would be INFINITELY easier if I
could just stick her in her carseat, leave her with a sitter, and go
out and play. But I didn't sign up for motherhood because the brochure
said it was easy.
Again, I think it's really sad that you think you're so easily replaced
in your babies' lives. I don't know what kind of relationship you
have with your mother, but I know how I was raised and what kind of
relationship I have with mine, and I know that I want the same for my
daughter and me. As a parent, I am doing what works for my child and
me and our family. That's the bottom line.
Amy
Amy
oregonchick wrote:
> I have been leaving Emily with a close friend since she was about 6 wks old
> to go skiing. I do NOT regret this, and credit my breaks away with pulling
> me out of ppd. I took alot of flack for it here, but still feel it was best
> for me. People get so damned opinionated...
I had PPD too, and I didn't have to go skiing to fix it. I told you in
the beginning that I thought that was a bad idea.
Look, you asked for OPINIONS so don't get huffy if people get
OPINIONated. You don't have to listen to me. But I think you're
really disconnected from your daughter. I've been trying to decide
whether or not to point this out for a long time - but this skiing
business, the fact that you've said that you had her for your husband
(you were done having kids, but he didn't have any, so you had her for
him - God I hope you never tell HER that!), the refusal to nurse
because you don't want her to depend on you, and now that you have to
even ask about this Germany thing? Let's just say that I think you
should really spend some time thinking about how you can plug in to
her. I think you still have PPD, and it has been and is interfering
with your ability to appopriately bond with your daughter. I think you
owe it to her, and to yourself, to look into the possibility that maybe
your feelings toward her aren't normal.
I know you're going to get pissed, and it's going to hurt to read that,
but someone needs to say it.
Amy
oregonchick
>
> oregonchick wrote:
>
>> I have been leaving Emily with a close friend since she was about 6 wks
>> old
>> to go skiing. I do NOT regret this, and credit my breaks away with
>> pulling
>> me out of ppd. I took alot of flack for it here, but still feel it was
>> best
>> for me. People get so damned opinionated...
>
> I had PPD too, and I didn't have to go skiing to fix it. I told you in
> the beginning that I thought that was a bad idea.
>
> Look, you asked for OPINIONS so don't get huffy if people get
> OPINIONated.
I don't mind that you are opinionated. I come here for the different
viewpoints. I don't have all the answers. But what bothers me is that
people actually believe there is only one right way to raise a child.
You don't have to listen to me. But I think you're
> really disconnected from your daughter.
That's fine that you think that. It's not true, but you're not here with me
so can't possibly really have a solid clue what's really going on.
I've been trying to decide
> whether or not to point this out for a long time - but this skiing
> business,
Oh, I'm mountain biking too. Once a week, I spend the day doing something
for me. The other 6 days, it's almost 100% one on one.
the fact that you've said that you had her for your husband
> (you were done having kids, but he didn't have any, so you had her for
> him - God I hope you never tell HER that!),
Just because I decided to have another child based on my husband's desire to
have a child of his own doesn't mean I don't want and love my daughter.
the refusal to nurse
> because you don't want her to depend on you,
No, what I said was that I didn't want her to be 100% dependant on me for
every feeding.
and now that you have to
> even ask about this Germany thing?
Hey, it was my husband's idea. What made you think I considered it? I said
that I felt guilty for not wanting her to go, like I was being selfish
wanting to keep her with me. I like the fucking way you twist my words. I
guess THIS is the part that sucks about newsgroups.
> I know you're going to get pissed, and it's going to hurt to read that,
> but someone needs to say it.
Amy
Sure, it pisses me off to read this, but it doesn't hurt. I just have to
accept your total ignorance to my situation, and know that your level of
understanding of my family is so low, you are speaking out of your ass.
Betsy
oregonchick
"Notchalk" <notc...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:e37o14$2773$1...@otis.netspace.net.au...
Yeah, the "sick in the stomach" feeling was what I was feeling too. I just
didn't want to feel guilty when I told my hubby NO. But, I did say no, and
he is fine with it. Now we just have to figure out how to get the whole
family over there for Christmas.
Betsy
Sue
> she's a year old, if I have to be hospitalized, she would come with me.
> In fact, I already spoke to the doctor about this, back when I had
> bronchitis and I was afraid I might be hospitalized, and he agreed with
> me.
There is no way I would bring a healthy child to stay in the hospital with
me, if that were my situation. There is so much they could catch at such an
early age, that I wouldn't be able to live with myself. I would much rather
the baby be in the care of loving relatives that will dote on them for the
time being until the situation resolved. Also, if I was sick and/or injured
it would be imperative that I get better to be able to take care of them
again.
> I think you're pissed that your daughter can't find babysitting jobs,
> and you've decided that every mother everywhere is overprotective as a
> result, which just isn't true.
You just think you know everything don't you. I don't care actually if she
finds sitting jobs or not. She is happy with her paper route, choir, getting
ready to go on tour, finishing up 7th grade, and being with friends. She is
frustrated because she loves babies so much and she wants to be with them,
but, she has found another way to get to know the families in the
neighborhood. She goes and plays with them so that way the parents get to
know her better. To me, that's a win/win situation rather than giving her
that much responsibility right off the bat.
> I trust others just fine, but they are not her MOTHER. I think it's
> sad that you think that your role in your children's life is so mundane
> that you can be replaced by any paid substitute. I'm not sure if that
> reflects low self-esteem or what, but it's sad.
I don't think it reflects anything to be honest. It's just my parenting
style. I am a very flexible, open-minded person. I don't like any hard and
fast rules because life has a way of changing the rules and I find that it's
better to roll with the punches. I love the fact that my girls have many
people in their lives that they can count on and trust and love. I actually
picked this up from Ericka Krammer (spelling?) and she is someone that I
totally respect as a parent and I try to model my parenting with hers
because I think she is a fantastic mother.
> I find it interesting that you think that "able to be left with others"
> is a skill that needs to be developed at 8.5 months old.
It was prudent for our family.
>I don't think so. In fact, I probably won't really leave her with anyone
until she's
> 2, at which time she'll start pre-school 4 hours a day (because studies
> have shown that up to 20 hours of pre-school/daycare per week is
> actually beneficial for social development). I believe that my
> availability and consistency in her early two years will cause her to
> be MORE confident and independent later on.
What makes you think I wasn't available for those early years? It just goes
to show you that you nothing about my parenting or what I did or even do
now. You know nothing about my life when my kids were babies or even now as
they are 13, 11, and 9 yrs old. I work at home and have ever since the kids
were babies (except when A was sick and in the hospital in the early years).
My kids have never been in daycare. I am and was pretty much a homebody and
my kids were with me all the time, except on occasions when I did have a
sitter (my mom) and then as they got older, I had teens as sitters. To help
make ends meet, I babysat, but took my daughter with me. You know jack shit
about me Amy so don't make assumptions.
>Read Sears - I'm not going to rewrite his whole philosophy. I believe in
>attachment parenting.
I think Sears is an idiot and a money-making doctor trying to peddle his
ideas. I was an attachment parent (didn't call it that though) even before
this fool decided to make money off his ideas.
> It's the way I was raised (although they didn't call it that, then),
> and my mom and I are close, and I am successful and independent.
> That's what I want for my daughter.
I think that goes without saying that everyone does. Everyone goes about it
different though and you can have the same outcome. There is no right way to
be a parent, that's what frustrates me so much about this group. So far, my
three girls and I are very close. My girls are very independent and so far
successful with school. There have been some rough patches with schooling
and/or parenting, but I don't think you can go through life and not have any
problems at all. They still climb in my lap and sit there for as long as
they need to. We love to do things with each other. This summer we are
taking a trip to Mackinaw Island with just me and the girls. They seem to
like me and they seem to respect me. And finally DD3 is maturing and getting
through some of her sensory issues that I am finally able to see light at
the end of the tunnel and she is turning out to be a wonderful little girl.
> Now who's reading what in? I am saying that NO ONE knows whether or
> not their parenting style works until 20 years later.
Exactly. But, you seem to think you got it down pat. I am very happy so far
at how my girls are turning out. I get compliments all the time on what
wonderful girls they are. Once we have figured out our last child's
personality and what she needs, parenting has been much easier. I must be
doing something right.
>If I want to sit here and be appalled that you think it's ok for
oregonchick to let >her husband take their child out of the country and
leave her with
> strangers for a week while he's running all over Europe, it doesn't
> hurt you any. She asked for opinions, and I gave mine.
LOL. Again, just goes to show you, you think you know everything. Go back
and read through the posts. You will see that I didn't answer Betsy. I have
only responded to you. You have no idea where I stand on this issue.
> No, I think I'm picking up on your superior attitude, in general.
Nope, parenting is a humbling experience. But, I do know what is best for my
kids and what I have done with them has worked so far. They are happy,
healthy, social, independent, creative. I could go one, but you get the
picture.
> In that situation, I would have left the older two and taken the baby
> with me.
Vegas isn't a place for babies or kids. They had much more fun with my
friend. The other trips were not places for children either and one trip was
an anniversary trip we needed some time to ourselves.
> I just LOVE it when mothers say "my life went on," or talk about their
> "me" time... This IS my life. I want it this way. Nothing makes me
> happier or more fulfilled than raising my little girl. It is the
> single most important thing I have ever done, or will ever do.
Me too. I am the same way. Except that I had a break every now and then. I
see nothing wrong with it.
>I had 30 years of "me time" before I had her, and I'll have plenty when
she's
> running around with her friends, or when she leaves home. These first
> two years, though, when she needs me so much, when I am the center of
> her little world - they don't last, and I am going to enjoy it and be
> present for it and make sure that I am there for her in every way that
> I can be. I am going to be responsive to her needs, and I am not going
> to let her cry. The days when I can fix all of her problems with a
> cuddle and a nurse don't last - why would I want to push her out of my
> arms?
Yep, that was and is the same way for me.
> Again, I think it's really sad that you think you're so easily replaced
> in your babies' lives.
I don't look at it as being replaced. I look at it like it is in addition to
the love their parents give them.
>I don't know what kind of relationship you have with your mother, but I
know >how I was raised and what kind of relationship I have with mine, and I
know that >I want the same for my daughter and me. As a parent, I am doing
what works >for my child and me and our family. That's the bottom line.
My mom had a mental illness, so it was rocky growing up. She couldn't help
it though. But, as I grew up and understood what was going on with her, we
were very close. She was my best friend and the best grandmother kids could
have. I was there with her the day she died and I am very honored to have
been with her and watch her slip through this life that was very hard for
her. She is in peace now and I am very happy about that.
oregonchick
Sue, my hats off to you for handling this so very diplomatically. I'm
afraid I get my dander up much easier...;-)
Betsy
hoof...@hotmail.co.uk
> Sue, my hats off to you for handling this so very diplomatically. I'm
> afraid I get my dander up much easier...;-)
>
> Betsy
I think you have been pretty polite considering what you have been
accused of. Some of the responses to your question are exactly what
I've been talking about in the forumla thread. You asked people's
*opnion* on what they thought of the idea of Emily going to Germany,
making it clear you weren't happy with the idea. You recieved
*judgements* on how you are as a mother and how you handled your ppd. I
wouldn't speak to my closest friend the way you have been spoken to ,so
you have every right imo to get your dander up.
Jeni
cjra
Amy wrote:
> I believe that my
> availability and consistency in her early two years will cause her to
> be MORE confident and independant later on.
Maybe. Maybe not. I've seen both happen - parents who claim their kids
will be independent because their parents never left their side as
infants but the adult children end up being clingy and needy and afraid
of their own shadow. I've also seen kids who were given some autonomy
early on end up being very independent and confident.
All depends on the kid's personality, IMO. What may seem like love and
attention to one may seem like smothering to another, even at early
ages.
> It is the
> single most important thing I have ever done, or will ever do. I had
> 30 years of "me time" before I had her, and I'll have plenty when she's
> running around with her friends, or when she leaves home. These first
> two years, though, when she needs me so much, when I am the center of
> her little world - they don't last, and I am going to enjoy it and be
> present for it and make sure that I am there for her in every way that
> I can be.
Since you like honesty, this comment really sounds like you are
fulfilling *your* needs. Your need to be the 'center of her world" is a
little disturbing, frankly.
cjra
oregonchick wrote:
> Hey, it was my husband's idea. What made you think I considered it? I said
> that I felt guilty for not wanting her to go, like I was being selfish
> wanting to keep her with me.
FWIW - I totally get how you feel. DH will be going to Europe on
business, then will see his family in CH when the baby will be about
12-16 weeks old (for one week, but the timing isn't set yet). Initially
we wanted to schedule it while I was still on leave so we could take
the baby to meet its grandparents (who are elderly, can't travel, and
who knows when if ever they'll get a chance to meet the bub). But for
work purposes he has to go later, whenI'll be back at work. I found
myself feeling selfish and guilty for 'saying' no to the idea of him
taking the baby with him. Like, why am *I* so important that I get to
keep the bub to myself and keep him from the grandparents? And DH
didn't even bring it up as a possibility because he knew it wasn't!!!
Neither of us ever seriously considered it, it was just a quick passing
thought, but enough to make me feel bad for the grandparents. So, I
hear ya.
A side note, 15 yrs ago my sister was a new mom and struggling (PPD was
likely but not diagnosed). Another sister, living in another state gave
birth to a baby with severe defects who died after one month (when they
finally recognised all the problems and decided to let her go). During
that time, sister #1 left her 3 month old baby in the care of his other
grandparents for one week and flew out to be with sister #2 during her
difficulties. Bringing a healthy baby would have been the opposite of
comforting to sister #2 then, and sister #1 *really* needed that break.
It helped both of them. And that 3 month old is now a 15 yr old
impressive teenager, with no abandonment issues whatsoever.
cjra
Sue wrote:
> "Amy" <amyea...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > She's nursing. I'm pump resistant. She won't take bottles. Until
> > she's a year old, if I have to be hospitalized, she would come with me.
> > In fact, I already spoke to the doctor about this, back when I had
> > bronchitis and I was afraid I might be hospitalized, and he agreed with
> > me.
>
> There is no way I would bring a healthy child to stay in the hospital with
> me, if that were my situation. There is so much they could catch at such an
> early age, that I wouldn't be able to live with myself.
I'm kind of shocked a physician would even consider this, or be allowed
to do this by the higher ups in the hospital, at least in the US (in
some countries, the issues are a bit different). Most hospitals have
*very* stringent rules about not allowing kids, esp. babies, into a
hospital - at least into areas housing ill patients. Not only is a
hospital full of sick people a risk for a healthy child, kids carry
their own sets of germs that are high risk for patients already ill.
There would be HUGE liability issues in the US to go against such
rules.
It would be incredibly irresponsible to bring a baby into such a
situation!
Sue
until she's
> 2, at which time she'll start pre-school 4 hours a day (because studies
> have shown that up to 20 hours of pre-school/daycare per week is
> actually beneficial for social development).
Sorry folks, one more thing.
Actually, I disagree with this. I think going to preschool at 2 yrs old is
too young and at four hours a day is a long time for a little one.
Preferable age for preschool for us is 4 yrs old. Having said that though,
DD1 and DD2 went to preschool at 3 years old. DD1 because of her disability
and DD3 because she begged to go to school and be like her sisters. So she
went at 3 yrs old and it was fine.
Sue
> afraid I get my dander up much easier...;-)
Well thank you. I'm proud of you too. She said some pretty nasty things to
you. You are a good mom and don't let anyone tell you different.
--
Cheri Stryker
> Yeah, the "sick in the stomach" feeling was what I was feeling too. I just
> didn't want to feel guilty when I told my hubby NO. But, I did say no, and
> he is fine with it. Now we just have to figure out how to get the whole
> family over there for Christmas.
Betsy -
I was too far behind to respond to your question when it was timely, and
I'm glad to hear it's all resolved. Since you're still planning on
going over there, I'm gonna mention what came up when I read your first
posting (well, aside from the immediate, "Oh, >hell< no!" [grin]):
Yikes! I don't envy anyone taking an infant on a transatlantic flight -
from the West Coast, no less. Bleah. We took our first with us to New
Orleans from Oakland when he was two, and it was miserable! The flight
was a pain, but the "Airline flu" that DS1 and I got lasted for almost
the entire trip, as well. If Emily gets sick easily, that might be
something you want to factor into your decision.
--
Cheri Stryker
mom to DS1 - almost 7!, and DS2 - 2.5 months
Caledonia
I know of *zero* hospitals in the metropolitan Boston area that would
permit this (encourage a 'well' infant/toddler to stay with a
sick/infectious mom), and took it as hyperbole.
Maybe we've just stumbled across why Indiana now has a mumps
outbreak....
Caledonia
Cheri Stryker
[snip}
> the refusal to nurse
> because you don't want her to depend on you,
[snip]
> I know you're going to get pissed, and it's going to hurt to read that,
> but someone needs to say it.
Amy -
you're really on a roll, today. Firstly, I don't know if it was
obviously stated, but I recall Betsy/oregonchick saying something about
how nursing (and pumping, to a lesser extent) produced waves of
overwhelming nausea for her. Can everyone please acknowledge that it's
amazing she's persisted? PPD, psychological reasons for nausea,
whatever, if I wanted to barf everytime my milk came out, my little one
would have been formula-fed a long time ago, and I can't think of very
many people who wouldn't agree.
I think at this point someone needs to say, chill out everyone, there's
lots of very heated stuff going on right now.
I remember when I first started using Usenet, after years of small
BBS's. Not everyone reads straight text the same way, and even with
smileys, etc., what one person thinks is a flat statement, or even a
worried, supportive kind of message, another one sees as an attack or
judgment.
--
Cheri Stryker
mom to DS1 - almost 7!, and DS2 - 2.5 months
hoping her flame-resistant suit still works....
emilymr
> My daughter is, and has been since day one, up in
> my arms or in the Baby Bjorn and looking at people
> in the eye... <snip>
> Everyone who sees her comments on how intelligent she
> looks, and how she seems more "plugged in" to the world than other
> babies - and indeed, we spent time with 5 other babies over the
> weekend, and the difference between my kid and the others was
> remarkable.
WELL, *I* abandoned my son to day care twice a week for 5 hours a pop
when he was 8 months old while I taught a summer session class, and now
he's an affectionate, loving kid who gives lots of hugs and kisses,
plays independently at the park, climbs higher than any of the other
kids in our playgroup, flushes the toilet for me, and randomly folds
his hands, bows his head, whispers unintelligible 'prayers' and says
"AH-men." *Obviously,* his experience in daycare taught him to love
his mama even more, gave him the extra jolt he needed to learn to climb
fences and drawer handles, got him interested in potty training before
he can say 'penis', and, as an extra bonus, served as the vehicle for
his precocious conversion experience. ;)
Sorry for the sarcasm/exaggeration, but I find this line of thinking
almost as implausible as the idea that my post-false-negative-PT
winetasting trip gave my 1/4-Japanese child red hair and blue eyes. :P
Don't get me wrong; I *do* believe there are many things we as parents
can do to screw up our kids. I also think most of these things fall
into pretty well-defined categories of abuse - categories that
everyone on this board would agree with. I'm NOT as convinced that
detailed parenting choices we make will (automatically) result in
independent, loving, self-disciplined, attached, spiritual, [fill in
your desired characteristic] child. I think we can (and should) try
and foster these characteristics, but we're dealing with individual
children with their own personalities and propensities - not blank
slates.
Unfortunately, these discussions often seem to devolve into a contest
to prove who loves their kid the most, or alternatively, who's
sending their kid the fastest down the road to expensive therapy and
familial estrangement. I don't think that's deliberate, obviously,
but perhaps if we accept as a given that we all love our kids and are
trying to do our best for them, the judgementalism that people have
objected to might not be so prevalent. Not that we shouldn't be
giving each other advice and opinions - but it might be more
productive to couch them in "this works for me and my family"
language. Other people's different choices don't automatically
prove that they're bad parents or are taking out their own neuroses
on their kids - and we shouldn't assume that to be the case, since,
as many people on this and other threads have pointed out, we don't
have all the information. Someone might make a different parenting
choice than mine because [gasp] they're a different person, they have
a different family situation, they have a different child with a
different personality and different needs, etc. etc. etc. -- rather
than because they're selfish, lazy, and don't really care about their
kid.
I love the advice and perspectives and information I get here (and on
mkp and mk). You all got me through a horrible bout with plugged
ducts, and I've changed, refined, and reinforced my own thinking on
many things because of people's personal stories and discussions.
And I do think there is a place for saying, "Hey, I've noticed this
and this and this in your posts and I'm a little worried about you
- have you considered this??" But I *personally* think it should
end there.
OK, sermon over. I knew I shouldn't have typed this is Word first;
it makes me feel free to go on longer! :)
Em
mama to Micah, 11/14/04
emilymr
> Yeah, the "sick in the stomach" feeling was what I was feeling too. I just
> didn't want to feel guilty when I told my hubby NO. But, I did say no, and
> he is fine with it. Now we just have to figure out how to get the whole
> family over there for Christmas.
Chiming in late, like Cheri -- but I just wanted to say, I totally
understand that guilty feeling!! I personally have a problem with
feeling so guilty about other people (like grandparents) that I can be
hesitant to stand up for Micah ("no, we aren't going to drag him out
way past his bedtime so you can bond with him"). Luckily, DH is not
afflicted with inappropriate guilt, so he balances me out. ;) I'm
glad you and your DH are on the same page about the trip! :)
And BTDT with the 'airline flu', too many times. :P Blech. By the
time he's 2, Micah will have been on 12 plane trips, most of them
cross-country. It's been difficult for us to come to a good balance
between family obligations/bonding and traveling disequilibrium/plane
germs.
oregonchick
<hoof...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1146589656.5...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Well, gosh darn, I hate getting ticked off. I mean, we all come here
presumably because we want to do what's best for our kids. I sure as heck
don't know everything about raising them up, but I sure do the best I can.
I love my kids. I know that a stranger on Usenet is not going to be able to
give me the best advice for ME, but if I get enough ideas, hopefully I'll be
able to do a good job in the long run.
Jess
> I know you're going to get pissed, and it's going to hurt to read that,
> but someone needs to say it.
And I think all three of you need to chill the hell out and either learn to
ignore each other or take this into email. I'm not interested in watching
people flame each other back and forth.
Jess
Anne Rogers
funny little things, you need to know them, they are hard work even if you
do know them and if you don't it's a total nightmare. Heck, I suggested
leaving Ada with my parents for 4hrs yesterday and they weren't keen! This
from parents who are fairly hands on grandparents and very keen to do stuff
with the children and have had DS overnight and would like to have him for
longer.
That aside, I think you are well within your rights to say NO, baby needs
her mummy,
Anne
Anne Rogers
> so most kids of age 8 mos is in some kind of daycare all day.
huh?
most countries in Europe are more different from each other than 2 US
states, you just cannot generalise like that. I don't have exact statisics,
but I think it is 70% of mothers in the UK return to work before there child
is 1 year, but I suspect the vast majority of that is part time, but with
partners, family, etc sharing childcare, it's only a relatively small number
that are in daycare all day, and definitely not "most".
I'd be surprised if there is really that much difference from the US in how
many mothers work. Anecdotally it doesn't seem like it from these
newsgroups.
FWIW I worked from DS being 5 months, but he didn't spend a full day in
daycare until 16 months. I'm planning on leaving DS for a week for the first
time ever, this summer, he turns 3 at the end of the month and I'm only
doing that because I can't face flying him across the atlantic.
Anne
Anne Rogers
> with your ability to appopriately bond with your daughter. I think you
> owe it to her, and to yourself, to look into the possibility that maybe
> your feelings toward her aren't normal.
Amy, sorry to have to say this, but right now I'm a whole lot more concerned
about you than Betsy. I think you are a great parent, but after having read
your exchanges with Sue, I was concerned, then I read this and I'm really
concerned. Nothing Betsy has said has made me at all concerned about her
right now.
You keep saying you had PPD, but PPD like any depressive illness usually
runs a course of 6-9 months, you're just not far enough along now to use the
word "had", are you still on meds, is anyone monitoring you? I really think
you should go back to whoever is caring for you and have a chat.
Cheers
Anne
Anne Rogers
> she's a year old, if I have to be hospitalized, she would come with me.
> In fact, I already spoke to the doctor about this, back when I had
> bronchitis and I was afraid I might be hospitalized, and he agreed with
> me.
you're lucky if your hospital system allows for that, I had DS taken away
from me when he was just 4 months old and I was in hospital, because they
didn't have enough staff, if he was there, he counted as a patient thus had
to have the correct numbers, DH wasn't allowed to stay to be his carer, so
they both had to go.
Anne
Anne Rogers
I've never seen this research, but it seems to me 20hrs from none is a huge
jump.
I would have thought that other activities are as valuable, for example,
toddler groups, family groups that kind of thing. We tend to do something
most mornings, some are activities where the children go to a creche, which
is a structured activity, not just stop the children from crying for 2hrs,
also we go to groups where we sit down and have meal together, do parachute
play, all sorts of things.
Plus, setting down a fixed ages is so arbitraray, DS was so not ready at age
2, now at almost 3, he is desperate to be independent and do something, but
I suspect 20hrs would still be too much. He will go is September 5 mornings
a week 2.5hrs a morning.
Anne
Caledonia
emilymr wrote:
> Sorry for the sarcasm/exaggeration, but I find this line of thinking
> almost as implausible as the idea that my post-false-negative-PT
> winetasting trip gave my 1/4-Japanese child red hair and blue eyes. :P
> Don't get me wrong; I *do* believe there are many things we as parents
> can do to screw up our kids. I also think most of these things fall
> into pretty well-defined categories of abuse - categories that
> everyone on this board would agree with. I'm NOT as convinced that
> detailed parenting choices we make will (automatically) result in
> independent, loving, self-disciplined, attached, spiritual, [fill in
> your desired characteristic] child. I think we can (and should) try
> and foster these characteristics, but we're dealing with individual
> children with their own personalities and propensities - not blank
> slates.
Please -- I *knew* that the choices I made helped DD1 to become the
amazing child that she was and is, and that any, well, misbehavior was
due to something she obviously learned from another kid. But clearly,
everything that was positive was a result of my own efforts.
Then I had baby #2.
Oh. :)
Caledonia
Joybelle
"Caledonia" <MAli...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1146614725.7...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Please -- I *knew* that the choices I made helped DD1 to become the
> amazing child that she was and is, and that any, well, misbehavior was
> due to something she obviously learned from another kid. But clearly,
> everything that was positive was a result of my own efforts.
>
> Then I had baby #2.
>
> Oh. :)
Isn't that the truth. Oh my, and #3 and #4 have really only reinforced what
I learned when #2 came along. :)
--
Joy
Rose 1-99
Iris 2-01
Spencer 3-03
Grant 9-05 www.caringbridge.org/visit/grantphilip
Joybelle
> >Or, if
> > you want to travel, you can go with her and stay with her at his
> > parents for a week, but there is NO way that I would allow my daughter
> > to go anywhere for that long without me. None. Not under any
> > circumstances in the world. Not even if I were in the hospital or
> > something. Good God...
>
> Sometimes life gets in the way. I am glad that you don't have any
> circumstances in your life to ever be away. I hope it stays that way. I
had
> to be away from my kids during some points of their lives because of DD1
> special needs and being in the hospital for months at a time. Middle
daugher
> was around 8 months when DD1 had to be in the hospital. I had to have
> strangers/family/friends/husband keep her. It wasn't the end of the earth
> for her because I have made sure that my kids are exposed to other people
> for this very reason. Then I had to be away when DD3 was 4 and DD2 was 5
for
> three months, again for a hospitalization. It was harder because they were
> older, but again since I have exposed them to other people, they did fine.
> And of course dad was with them as much as he could. I think your
untrusting
> of people is really OTT. Sometimes a person just cannot help situations.
The
> OP situation is of course optional, but still I have left my girls with my
> mom so hubby and I could go on a trip. I trust my family and I trust the
> people that cared for my kids when I couldn't be there.
Coming home from a six day hospital stay, I have to agree with life and
circumstances changing things. I'm awfully grateful for the people in my
life that have come through for us. It's been tough for my kids because
they've been so used to having me here (they are 3, 5 and 7), but they're
making it (so am I!). I feel their (and mine) lives have been enriched by
the generous and loving people who have helped so much. You (general you)
can only do the best with the cards you're dealt, and I think, Sue, that you
are doing a terrific job.
Sue
> Coming home from a six day hospital stay, I have to agree with life and
> circumstances changing things. I'm awfully grateful for the people in my
> life that have come through for us. It's been tough for my kids because
> they've been so used to having me here (they are 3, 5 and 7), but they're
> making it (so am I!). I feel their (and mine) lives have been enriched by
> the generous and loving people who have helped so much. You (general you)
> can only do the best with the cards you're dealt, and I think, Sue, that
you
> are doing a terrific job.
Thank you Joybelle. I think you are doing an awesome job yourself. My kids
too were used to me being around all the time and it was hard for them,
mostly my youngest though because she didn't have the experience of being
with other people. My middle one just rolls with the punches. I am very
grateful that A hasn't had to be in the hospital for a while (knock on
wood). We just celebrated 13 years out from her liver transplant on May 3rd
and I am very grateful for every day that I am allowed to have her with us.
Hang in there Joybelle. :o)
mcm...@cup.hp.com
: My husband is from Germany. All his family is still there (We're in the
: year it will probably be in August. He wants to take the baby with him to
: drop off at his parents while he is there on business for a whole week.
: Emily will be 8 months at that time. My husband will not be staying at the
: house for that time period. He assures me that his mother will take perfect
: care of Emily, but I feel sooo uncomfortable with this on so many levels.
: Regardless of whether or not she takes perfect care, I can't imagine her
: being gone for a whole week, being so far away, etc. Of course his parents
: will have very limited opportunities to see their ONLY grandchild, so I feel
: a little guilty.
: Opinions?
Yes, of course. Oh, you actually wanted someone to tell you what their
opinion is. :-)
It is quite simple. Go along and stay with your husband's parents for
the week. J'espere que tu parle Allemange. Whoops, that's the wrong
language. Ich hoffe dass du Deutsch sprechen. :-)
Now, you might think of all the reasons why it isn't practical for
you to go, (or your DH thinks of all the reasons...), but in this
situation I think it is the only solution that is a win for everybody.
: Betsy
Hope this works,
Larry
oregonchick
<mcm...@cup.hp.com> wrote in message news:445a...@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
Thanks Larry, with all things considered, you are probably right.