ISIS / PIS comparison
Stephanie and Tim
out of my right breast at 1:00pm. This is an UNHEARD OF amount for my right
at this time of day. Usually I get drops, if that.
Just curious if anyone else has an experience to share.
S
New York Jen
"Stephanie and Tim" <stowevtcanne...@sover.net> wrote in message
news:Aowqb.237$Re.1...@newshog.newsread.com...
> ANyone ever done one? I just used my ISIS for the first time. I got 1
ounce
> out of my right breast at 1:00pm. This is an UNHEARD OF amount for my
right
> at this time of day. Usually I get drops, if that.
I used the Medela small electric pump (can't think of the name of it, but
it's small and can run on batteries). I assumed that I'd get more milk with
the electric more expensive pump than with a manual one. I heard so many
great things about the Isis that I decided to invest and check it out. I
got WAY more milk with the Isis than I ever did with the Medela electric
one. I was shocked and so very pleased!
I think you'll find similar stories because I remember reading similar
things when I first had the realization.
:-)
- Jen
Anne Rogers
I use an ISIS and an Ameda purely yours, I tend to get a good flow rate
quicker with the ISIS, so I can get around and ounce very quickly. With
the double pump it's slower to start flowing, but one I get going it's
better at emptying the breast, I sometimes get over 4 oz per breast, which
I've never managed with the ISIS.
Lara
Different pumps for different folks. I've used an Isis out and about, on
aeroplanes, etc and the most I've ever pumped with it (both sides) is
about 120 ml. In contrast the most I've ever pumped with a Symphony
(both sides) is well over 600 ml. The Isis always left me sore because
of the tiny "standard" flange (with or without the insert); with the 30
mm Medela flanges I do just fine. YBMV.
Lara
EPing for Luke, Twelve months and twenty eight days
Sandeep
We decided to rent the Medela Symphony for my wife who is expecting on
Dec 24, 2003 primarily based on your posts on Google. I was wondering
if you would give us any tips or tricks in using this pump for a first
time mother who is thinking of using it exclusively rathar than in
combination with breastfeeding.
thanks,
Sandeep
Lara
Tip One: breastfeed. As someone who has been through the wringer with
grief because my baby won't latch, I just can't put myself in the shoes
of anyone doing this by choice, so I'm probably not the best person to
advise you. Exclusive pumping, like formula feeding, is to me a tragic
outcome of something gone horribly wrong with breastfeeding.
Feel free not to read on (just skip to the appended pumping tips) if
you're going to be offended by plain talk. Go join the yahoo groups
pumpmoms, which does have one or two EPers-by-choice (at least it used
to; I don't know how long they lasted).
I can't help but think your wife has had some appallingly bad advice if
she's making an "informed" choice to exclusively pump without even
trying to breastfeed. Not to mince words, if it's a psychological/trauma
issue, get therapy _now_ from someone breastfeeding-friendly.
Breastfeeding can be a wonderfully healing way of learning to love your
body again, if this is the issue; but she'll need support.
Exclusive pumping has all of the inconvenience of bottle-feeding
(washing bottles, parts etc in an endless spiral of drudgery), plus all
of the inconvenience of pumping (tied to the pump, what happens in a
blackout? Bunches of gear to take absolutely everywhere unless you'll
definitely be home within two hours), plus enormous expense, plus all of
the difficulty calibrating supply, plus usually needing someone else to
take care of your baby while you pump, plus none of the bonding/warm
fuzzies/positive feedback of breastfeeding from the tap. Breastfeeding
gets much easier after the first few weeks. Pumping becomes slightly
less awful, but never easy. Hooking up to a cold machine every two to
three hours day and night for months or years on end is no picnic. It
can be done, but it's bloody hard work every single step of the way.
Lara
===
Lara's Top Ten EPing Tips:
1) A good quality hospital-grade double electric pump. Some mums EP with
a PIS or Purely Yours, but many will be more comfortable and/or get a
better milk yield with a hospital-grade pump. If you're having trouble
with supply using a retail pump, se if you can get a rental for a few
weeks to test this out.
2) A hands free bra. This is essential in my opinion, so that you can
double pump while tending to your baby or getting work done. Extra
length tubing will let you move around a little, feed the baby a bottle,
change a nappy while you're pumping. Throw a big shirt over your set-up
and stay at your desk (or aeroplane seat, or wherever) - no one will see
anything they shouldn't.
Which brings me to
3) Your pump is the way you feed your baby. You can pump anywhere you
could breastfeed. Don't let yourself feel tied to the house or the desk
- get a portable pump too (PIS with battery/car adapter, Isis, Harmony)
and pump wherever you happen to be when it's pumping time. Don't be shy
- if you lock yourself in a closet every time you pump, you'll feel
isolated from the world. It doesn't take long to learn to stick an Isis
or Harmony up your shirt modestly. Floppy shirts help; use a nursing
canopy or muslin if you like.
4) If you can manage longer pump sessions (the hands free bra helps), do
it - extra let-downs mean more milk, and more lovely fatty hindmilk.
5) Stop pumping after ten or fifteen minutes, and massage-stroke-shake
youre breasts. Compress and massage your breasts while you're pumping.
"Power pump" - go back to the pump several times over the course of an
hour or two, for five or ten minute sessions at a time.
6) Extra pump parts, so you're not forever rinsing and washing. You
don't need to sterilise the parts unless you have an immunosuppressed or
special-needs baby; just rinse immediately after use with hot water and
air dry. Wash in hot soapy water or a dishwasher once a day, being sure
to get all the milk out from the yellow & white valve & flap. Forget
antibacterial wipes and all that other gubbins people will try to sell
you. You don't need antibacterial chemicals to have a healthy baby;
they'll just create more resistant "superbugs" in the environment, and
they might eliminate the "good bacteria" (probiotic bacteria) that the
baby needs.
7) Rest, relax, plenty of calories and fluids. Guilt and stress are
big-time supply busters. Get counselling if you need it, antidepressants
if you need them. Talk to your midwife, counsellor, LC, doctor, partner,
friends.
8) The right size flanges for you may make an enormous difference to
your comfort. Experiment with the difference sizes available to find out
what works best. Don't muck about trying to work out how many
millimetres across your nipples are; these guides are dodgy at best.
Just try it, and use what works and is comfortable.
9) Lube the flanges with olive oil - much, much better than horn burn.
10) If any health care professional ever suggests you pump and dump,
research the medication/procedure independently first (kellymom.com,
MOBI, and misc.kids.breastfeeding are good places to start). Nine times
out of ten, they're wrong.
11) Above all, love and enjoy your baby.
Sandeep
Thanks for your prompt reply and tips. We were, however, looking for
some details on adjusting setpoints on the Symphony rather than
general guidelines for using breastpumps. Since you have been a user
of the Symphony for quite some time I was hoping you may have fiddled
with the settings enough to know what works best. Maybe we are
mistaken and you just hook it up and push start? I understand that
"best" will vary but if you could outline what setpoints you adjusted
that may have improved the yield using the symphony or comfort that's
what we are looking for (so that we don't have to experiment as much
once we get the pump). For example, What setpoints should we use
initally in the first week? And what do we change as the weeks
progress? Since we have already chosen to get this pump, we are not
looking for comparisons to other products.
Please note that we have never seen the Symphony except in pictures
(it's not availaibe in our area) and never seen a breast pump operate
(no time to go look) but from your posts it seemed to us that the
Symphony would give us the best chance to meet the baby's requirements
with minimum discomfort to my wife.
I understand your first comment about Breastfeeding. It is difficult
to tell what will happen after the baby is born. Maybe she will
breastfeed or maybe he will go on the bottle after one week with
formula. I can't predict. I think it's inappropriate to judge my
wife's metal condition or our desire to pump exclusively. We want to
provide for the baby what is universally considered good for the baby
and it seems to me that with products like the Symphony more moms (and
dads) who might normally want to (or have to) go to the bottle as soon
as possible (for whatever reason) can provide the baby with breastmilk
for a longer period of time.
I appreciate your help and advise.
thanks again,
Sandeep
Lara
> Thanks for your prompt reply and tips. We were, however, looking for
> some details on adjusting setpoints on the Symphony rather than
> general guidelines for using breastpumps. Since you have been a user
> of the Symphony for quite some time I was hoping you may have fiddled
> with the settings enough to know what works best.
Ah. Optimal settings vary _dramatically_ from woman to woman, so there
is no point me telling you "do this, it worked for me". It really is
trial and error to find out what works for you.
> Maybe we are
> mistaken and you just hook it up and push start?
Pretty much. Push start, wait for let-down, adjust vacuum until
comfortable. If it hurts, turn it down. If you can't feel it and no milk
is coming out, turn it up. Get flanges that fit correctly. All the other
stuff I put in my "pumping tips". Your rental supplier or LC should be
able to show you all of the controls and equipment, and how they work.
> We want to
> provide for the baby what is universally considered good for the baby
> and it seems to me that with products like the Symphony more moms (and
> dads) who might normally want to (or have to) go to the bottle as soon
> as possible (for whatever reason) can provide the baby with breastmilk
> for a longer period of time.
I maintain that your Symphony rental money would be almost certainly
better spent on an IBCLC. But if you won't tell us the whole story, you
can expect advice that might not suit you.
More breastfeeding support (both individual and community) would be a
much better use of anyone's money than throwing more dollars at
breastpumps. And I'm sorry, but asking me for advice on exclusively
pumping by choice when you have a baby who is very likely to be able to
breastfeed, is like asking an trauma amputee for advice on how to chop
off your own leg for fun.
Lara
--
This email address is for mailing list mail only.
For individual email please send to
waawa at iinet dot net dot au
Sandeep
> Ah. Optimal settings vary _dramatically_ from woman to woman, so there
> is no point me telling you "do this, it worked for me". It really is
> trial and error to find out what works for you.
>
breastfeeding class at our local hospital did not suggest that the
optimal setting varies dramatically from woman to woman? My wife did
give her 5/5 on all categories in her review after the 4 hr class
though. Personally I thought she's a sweet lady who loves kids.
> Pretty much. Push start, wait for let-down, adjust vacuum until
> comfortable. If it hurts, turn it down. If you can't feel it and no milk
> is coming out, turn it up. Get flanges that fit correctly. All the other
> stuff I put in my "pumping tips". Your rental supplier or LC should be
> able to show you all of the controls and equipment, and how they work.
I thought the Symphony has programs on a card that simulates letdown
and expression? Are there multiple programs or just one? It would be
nice if it had many programs you could choose from or make your own
custom program depending on what suited you? I was thinking that you
might adjust the vacuum more than once since you need more to get the
last drops out?
> I maintain that your Symphony rental money would be almost certainly
> better spent on an IBCLC. But if you won't tell us the whole story, you
> can expect advice that might not suit you.
>
It's not expensive to rent. It's like not going out on one Friday
night! I did not say that we did not or would not spend money on what
you are suggesting. Ahh the whole story, it's not all that
complicated as you imagine but I am thinking that I aught not to post
all the personal details that have resulted in our decision to pump
exclusively since much of it is theory and we will see what happens in
practice. If you really want to review our theory then I'll be glad
to post it but I would think that it's a waste of your time? There
are plenty of moms that need real support from problems they are
facing now!
>
> More breastfeeding support (both individual and community) would be a
> much better use of anyone's money than throwing more dollars at
> breastpumps. And I'm sorry, but asking me for advice on exclusively
> pumping by choice when you have a baby who is very likely to be able to
> breastfeed, is like asking an trauma amputee for advice on how to chop
> off your own leg for fun.
>
I was not aware that you were so traumatized by the pumping? I
thought you enjoyed pumping and have been doing so for a long time? I
also did not realize that pumping was such a heinous act?
thanks,
Sandeep
Lara
> > And I'm sorry, but asking me for advice on exclusively
> > pumping by choice when you have a baby who is very likely to be able to
> > breastfeed, is like asking an trauma amputee for advice on how to chop
> > off your own leg for fun.
> >
> I was not aware that you were so traumatized by the pumping? I
> thought you enjoyed pumping and have been doing so for a long time? I
> also did not realize that pumping was such a heinous act?
In the interests of me not getting really, really bloody angry at
someone who is possibly not being deliberately stupid, can someone else
please answer this?
Ta
Lara
--
reply to waawa at waawa dot cx
Mary W.
Lara wrote:
I haven't exclusively pumped, and I think Lara summed up the downside
of pumping in her first email. If you read stories about the women who try so
hard to nurse and for some reason can't and must pump, you'd see how
heartbreaking it is for them and the incredible dedication it takes to keep at
it.
I was able to nurse my baby. I pumped at work so she could have expressed milk
and to keep my supply up. Pumping was a hassel. From set up of the pump, to
cleaning the parts, to finding time and space and privacy to pump. The feeling
of being hooked up to a machine.
Ugh. None of it was pleasant, but I'd do it again in a second. And I responded
very well to the pump with an ample supply. Many women really struggle with
pumping and trying to produce adequate output for thier baby. This is much
harder when a baby isn't nursing because nursing stimulates the breast more
effectively than the pump.
Having pumped and nursed, I would never exclusively pump by choice. Lara has my
utmost respect for the amazing feat she accomplished.
Mary
Sandeep
Please accept my apology. The only purpose of my first post was to
learn about the Symphony Breast Pump and not about "pumping
exclusively". There are 1000s of posts about pumping and some very
nice FAQs too thanks to all the moms and some nice responses from men
too.
We basically have two options, use a breast pump or bottle feed with
formula. It seems to me that bottle feed with formula will be best
from the reaction I have gotton from Lara.
thanks,
Sandeep
Lara
> We basically have two options, use a breast pump or bottle feed with
> formula. It seems to me that bottle feed with formula will be best
> from the reaction I have gotton from Lara.
Acting like a manipulative twerp isn't the best way to access
information and support, Sandeep.
You know as well as I do that long term expressing is possible; you know
the substantial health risks to your baby of formula feeding, including
but not limited to infections, hospitalisations, cancer, diabetes and
death. Your wife's decision is her responsibility, not mine - and not
yours, believe it or not. You want bottle-feeding support, don't ask for
it in mkb. Here the choice is between breastfeeding and expressing, not
breastmilk and formula.
All you were told here is BREASTFEEDING IS FAR FAR EASIER THAN EXCLUSIVE
PUMPING. Full stop.
Lara