Bush - coward during Vietnam
Mike777
Guard, he is a proven coward who used his Daddy's pull to get out of Vietnam.
Some poor schlep died in Vietnam so this rich piece of shit wouldn't have to go.
Unlike the allegations against Kerry, all of the allegations against Bush are
true.
The anti-Kerry swift boat vets were a political hit done by Bush. Too bad most
of America is too dumb to understand they were had. And the press should be
ashamed of themselves for letting all these lies reach the national news without
verifying any of the details. I don't blame Bush, because he is just like a
monkey throwing feces at the zoo. How can you get mad at a monkey, because he is
just being the monkey he is. But the press owes us better than they have
delivered.
Jerry Okamura
that time?
"Mike777" <mik...@nomailattbi.com> wrote in message
news:yEQXc.193911$8_6.138058@attbi_s04...
Lee K
> But the press owes us better than they have
> delivered.
The ONLY thing you have ever posted that everyone can agree with.
Corse
into the National Guard to try to avoid being drafter and sent to fight in
Vietnam. Back then Guard units rarely were activated for combat and the
unit that Bush got into never was. There were long waiting lists to get
into Guard units. GW Bush used his family connections to get to the top of
the list and to get in.
Corse
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:rtRXc.18311$Qa4....@twister.socal.rr.com...
Mitchell Holman
$Qa4....@twister.socal.rr.com:
> Why would anyone needs their parents to get into the National Guard during
> that time?
Parents tend to have more political
connections than their children.
Mitchell Holman
"I do -- I do -- I do -- I do -- what any normal person
would do at that age. You call home. You call home to
mother and father and say, ``I'd like to get into the
National Guard.''
- Senator Dan Quayle, 8/19/88, regarding his draft letter.
Jerry Okamura
the military. Some even went to Canada as I recall. Besides, why would
anyone needs their parents to get into the National Guard during that time?
or yearly basis?
"Corse" <Esr...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:93ZXc.12649$9O3....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
Jerry Okamura
"Mitchell Holman" <ta2eene...@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95535166C...@204.127.199.17...
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in news:rtRXc.18311
> $Qa4....@twister.socal.rr.com:
>
> > Why would anyone needs their parents to get into the National Guard
during
> > that time?
>
>
> Parents tend to have more political
> connections than their children.
>
into the National Guard?
Mitchell Holman
$Bt5....@twister.socal.rr.com:
Now they don't. In the 1960's when there
were long waiting lists for the guard you
needed "connections" to jump to the head of
the line. It is fitting that Gore could have
used his Daddy-the-US-senator to easily get
a guard slot, but choose to go to Vietnam
instead. For those of lessor backbone a parent
that knew someone who knew someone was needed.
Even Colin Powell was disgusted at how the sons
of the wealthy ducked service via the Guard
route.
Mitchell Holman
"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful
and well-placed... managed to wangle slots in Reserve
and National Guard units...Of the many tragedies of
Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as
the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are
created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country."
(Colin Powell, My American Journey, p. 148)
Mitchell Holman
mack
> So? A heck of a lot of people did all kinds of things to avoid going into
> the military. Some even went to Canada as I recall. Besides, why would
> anyone needs their parents to get into the National Guard during that
time?
> Was there a maximum number that the National Guard would accept on a
monthly
> or yearly basis?
bingo.
Corse
waiting list for the National Guard through political influence. GW Bush's
father was rich and well connect in the Republican party. He used his
influence to get GW put on the top of the waiting list so he could get into
the National Guard rather than being drafted and sent to Vietnam. Get it?
Corse
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:OI2Yc.13875$Bt5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
Richard
>Have you had your IQ checked lately? People got themselves bumped up on the
>waiting list for the National Guard through political influence. GW Bush's
>father was rich and well connect in the Republican party. He used his
>influence to get GW put on the top of the waiting list so he could get into
>the National Guard rather than being drafted and sent to Vietnam. Get it?
>
Kind of like how Kerry, a frigging Lieutenant for God's sakes got
to testify before Congress????
Reminded me of that part in the movie with James Woods about
Roy Cohn where he introduced his gay lover to the Secretary of
Defense, and the guy was a private.
-Rich
Jerry Okamura
"mack" <mack...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:10j1p3p...@corp.supernews.com...
did the National Guard decide who they would accept and who they would not.
Jerry Okamura
"Corse" <Esr...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:xK5Yc.13360$Mi1....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
Corse
books and articles written on the subject. Do a search with Google. It's
common knowledge by the way. I feel like I"m reinventing the wheel here.
Corse
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Oj9Yc.20864$Qa4...@twister.socal.rr.com...
Corse
By George Lardner Jr. and Lois Romano
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, July 28, 1999; Page A1
Fourth of seven articles
Two weeks before he was to graduate from Yale, George Walker Bush stepped
into the offices of the Texas Air National Guard at Ellington Field outside
Houston and announced that he wanted to sign up for pilot training.
It was May 27, 1968, at the height of the Vietnam War. Bush was 12 days away
from losing his student deferment from the draft at a time when Americans
were dying in combat at the rate of 350 a week. The unit Bush wanted to join
offered him the chance to fulfill his military commitment at a base in
Texas. It was seen as an escape route from Vietnam by many men his age, and
usually had a long waiting list.
Bush had scored only 25 percent on a "pilot aptitude" test, the lowest
acceptable grade. But his father was then a congressman from Houston, and
the commanders of the Texas Guard clearly had an appreciation of politics.
Bush was sworn in as an airman the same day he applied. His commander, Col.
Walter B. "Buck" Staudt, was apparently so pleased to have a VIP's son in
his unit that he later staged a special ceremony so he could have his
picture taken administering the oath, instead of the captain who actually
had sworn Bush in. Later, when Bush was commissioned a second lieutenant by
another subordinate, Staudt again staged a special ceremony for the cameras,
this time with Bush's father the congressman – a supporter of the Vietnam
War – standing proudly in the background.
______________________
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Oj9Yc.20864$Qa4...@twister.socal.rr.com...
Jerry Okamura
"Corse" <Esr...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:gO9Yc.13434$d23....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
Jerry Okamura
not does not necessarily mean that they would be a bad President. And if
you want to compare the shenanegans that Bush played in getting into the
National Guard, I might point out that there were many people who played the
same game. Some were successful at the game and some were not. Kerry for
example "gamed the system" by getting out of dodge when he was wounded
(three times as I recall), while there were a whole lot of others who could
have also gotten out of Dodge for the same reason, but chose to stay and
fight.
"Corse" <Esr...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:XT9Yc.13436$%_2....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
> this time with Bush's father the congressman - a supporter of the Vietnam
> War - standing proudly in the background.
Peter Pan
whole bull out of the water doesn't it... :)
"Corse" <Esr...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:xK5Yc.13360$Mi1....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
Corse
Vietnam. You're dumb but not entirely unteachable.
Let's see. Kerry actually went to Vietnam although he too could have avoided
going. He got shot and wounded but not killed through the grace of god.
Yep, I can see why you think that Kerry gamed the system. I can see it
since I already know you are a dickhead.
Corse
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:xsaYc.14161$Bt5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
Chris
> OK. So at least now you understand what Bush did to avoid the draft and
> Vietnam. You're dumb but not entirely unteachable.
>
> Let's see. Kerry actually went to Vietnam although he too could have
avoided
> going. He got shot and wounded but not killed through the grace of god.
> Yep, I can see why you think that Kerry gamed the system. I can see it
> since I already know you are a dickhead.
Bush took shots during Vietnam. OK they were Tequila in Texas but why
quibble.
>
>
>
Pam or C. Wayne Owens
sheriff of Springfield, Mo (and former failed professional baseball player)
had N.G. list positions for sale. It was well known that politicians could
arrange it for you. It was offered to me, but I didn't take it. Now...can we
please talk about movies!!!!!!!!!!!!
wayne
ElaineJ
> So was I. I personally know of it happening to several people. Mickey Owens,
> sheriff of Springfield, Mo (and former failed professional baseball player)
> had N.G. list positions for sale. It was well known that politicians could
> arrange it for you. It was offered to me, but I didn't take it. Now...can we
> please talk about movies!!!!!!!!!!!!
> wayne
Very interesting. So all this sorry b.s. is the radical right
flooding the *entire* net with cheap lies and phony history. Figures.
They need us tightly focused on 35+ years ago, so we don't look at
BushCo's stupid mismanagement.
Sorry to intrude on your newsgroups, folks. Stocks and films
aren't my topics, so I'm gone, but you might want to think about
whether you want a radright Sneaks & Liars disinfo campaign to burn
down the whole country's political house.
> > I was of draft age in the 60's.
> > "Corse" <Esr...@pobox.com> wrote in message
> > news:gO9Yc.13434$d23....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
> > > If you had lived in the 60s you would have read about it. There's
> > > been many books and articles written on the subject. Do a search
> > > with Google. It's common knowledge by the way. I feel like I"m
> > > reinventing the wheel here.
-snip-
ElaineJ
> If you had lived in the 60s you would have read about it. There's been many
> books and articles written on the subject. Do a search with Google. It's
> common knowledge by the way. I feel like I"m reinventing the wheel here.
> Corse
You are. It's not an accident. "Reinventing the wheel" keeps us
focused on their pointing finger instead of BushCo's miserable joke of
a record.
Corse
By Michael Kinsley
Sunday, August 29, 2004; Page B07
LOS ANGELES -- Veterans of George W. Bush's National Guard unit charged
today that the president has misrepresented his military service during the
Vietnam War. The veterans allege that during a period when the future
president was supposed to be serving in the Texas Air National Guard, he was
actually fighting in Vietnam.
"For more than 30 years we have remained silent," said the head of the
group, which calls itself "Stiff Drink Veterans for Kerry, Whoops We Mean
for Brewsky, Whoops We Mean for Truth." But, he added, "We want to be on
Larry King just as much as those Swift Vote guys."
Two members of the group claim to be eyewitnesses. "It was a typical night
at the Guard offices," one of them recalled at a press conference yesterday.
"Okay, I'd had a few. But I personally saw George parachute down from a
B-52, kill a dozen Cong with his bare hands, leap into one of those Swift
boat thingies and stick his tongue out at John Kerry."
The White House yesterday strongly denied the Stiff Drink version of events.
"As has been his policy throughout his entire life," a spokesman said, "the
president never left the continental United States during the entire Vietnam
era -- well, except for a few weekends in Tijuana. These Stiff Drink fellows
are nothing more than a front for the Kerry campaign, which would like to
convince the American people that George W. Bush is responsible for the
Vietnam War."
The Stiff Drink story is not easy to confirm or refute. On one side,
claiming that Bush has been lying, are two obscure drunks with close ties to
the Democratic Party and longstanding grudges against the Bush family, which
they claim cooperated with space aliens who kidnapped them to Crawford,
Tex., or possibly Mars ("Who can tell?") and examined their genital areas.
On the other side, confirming Bush's version of events, are 143 fellow
reservists who have signed affidavits attesting that they saw the future
president popping a Bud in the Guard offices at a time when the Stiff Drink
group alleges he was on a secret mission to Hanoi, where he personally
arm-wrestled Ho Chi Minh.
There is no documentary evidence supporting the view that Bush was in
Vietnam. However, there is an extensive collection of speeding tickets from
several Southern states, issued throughout the period in question to someone
whose description resembles that of George W. Bush. This person, whose
identity cannot be firmly established, called himself George W. Bush. He was
driving a car registered to Bush and was carrying Bush's driver's license.
In addition, there are
photographs of Bush at the time in Texas papers, accompanying stories such
as "Bush Son Seeks Own Way" (Houston Chronicle, March 28, 1969) and "Bush
Son Still Seeking Own Way" (Dallas Morning News, Dec. 12, 1972).
Bush also kept a diary throughout this period. Supplied to reporters
yesterday by the Bush-Cheney campaign, the diary contains multiple entries
along the lines of, "Woke up. Terrible hangover. But at least I'm not in
Vietnam. Thanks, Dad!"
Bush signed up for the Texas Air National Guard in 1968, to defend the state
of Texas against the Viet Cong. In 1972 -- having decided, sources say, that
Texas was now secure from communist infiltration -- he transferred his
allegiance to a Guard unit in Alabama.
There has long been mystery and controversy about what exactly Bush did in
Alabama and whether he fulfilled his reservist's obligation to show up and
sharpen pencils for 45 minutes every other weekend. This is different from
today's National Guard and Army Reserve policy, under which a recruiting
officer leads young people to believe they are signing up for
pencil-sharpening duty and then, as soon as they've signed, shouts "Aha!
Gotcha!" and ships them off to a distant war.
"Look, Larry," the president told Barbara Walters in a recent interview,
"just because I got away with it is no reason they should get away with it."
Although Bush has never said what he was doing when he was supposed to be
sharpening pencils for his country, he has not denied published hypothesizes
that he spent the period drinking, sleeping and watching sports on TV. "It
sounds easy," said one Bush friend from that era, "but keep in mind that in
those days there might be only one game on the tube at any given time."
The Stiff Drink group, however, insists that Bush was actually flying
sorties over Hanoi. And doing it without a plane. In the end, it is their
word against his. The truth probably lies somewhere in between. And the full
story of George Bush's secret war in Vietnam will never be known.
Mitchell Holman
news:632e2a29.04082...@posting.google.com:
> "Pam or C. Wayne Owens" <pnwo...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:<1JdYc.14635$rI6....@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>...
>> So was I. I personally know of it happening to several people. Mickey
>> Owens, sheriff of Springfield, Mo (and former failed professional
>> baseball player) had N.G. list positions for sale. It was well known
>> that politicians could arrange it for you. It was offered to me, but I
>> didn't take it. Now...can we please talk about movies!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> wayne
>
> Very interesting. So all this sorry b.s. is the radical right
> flooding the *entire* net with cheap lies and phony history. Figures.
> They need us tightly focused on 35+ years ago, so we don't look at
> BushCo's stupid mismanagement.
Modern Conservative: Someone who can take time out
from complaining about Kerrys antiwar protests and
testifying before Congress to remind us that Bush's
arrests and drunk driving in the same time period is
"irrelevant","stale news", and "ancient history".
James Chamblee
(ElaineJ) wrote:
> You are. It's not an accident. "Reinventing the wheel" keeps us
> focused on their pointing finger instead of BushCo's miserable joke of
> a record.
As is starting to be reveled now, Bush's National Guard unit was unique. It
was designed to be a haven for all Texans with sufficient clout to avoid
Vietnam service, includin Gov. Connelly's son, and several football players
employed by the Dallas Cowboys.
Jerry Okamura
> OK. So at least now you understand what Bush did to avoid the draft and
> Vietnam. You're dumb but not entirely unteachable.
>
> Let's see. Kerry actually went to Vietnam although he too could have
avoided
> going. He got shot and wounded but not killed through the grace of god.
> Yep, I can see why you think that Kerry gamed the system. I can see it
> since I already know you are a dickhead.
>
>
going to Vietnam. But let me also point out that Kerry had lost his draft
deferment and found himself in a postion that he could have been drafted.
So, like some, he choose to volunteer, so that he could make a choice of
which branch of the service he would serve. He could have joined the army,
and tried to become a special service officier, and that surely would have
been a whole lot more dangerous that being on a river patrol. Or he could
have joined the marines.
Jerry Okamura
"ElaineJ" <cornu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:632e2a29.04082...@posting.google.com...
Here is my bet. In about four years, if Kerry is elected, there will be
some on the other side, making the same statements about Kerry.
Mike777
record, when his record is incredibly thin or nonexistent. Years from now,
historians will look back on this time in history and laugh themselves silly
about how the free press, like Fox News, are in fact nothing but a propaganda
network for the republican party.
"Mike777" <mik...@nomailattbi.com> wrote in message news:...
> Not only does Bush constantly lie about his service in the Alabama National
> Guard, he is a proven coward who used his Daddy's pull to get out of Vietnam.
> Some poor schlep died in Vietnam so this rich piece of shit wouldn't have to
go.
>
> Unlike the allegations against Kerry, all of the allegations against Bush are
> true.
>
> The anti-Kerry swift boat vets were a political hit done by Bush. Too bad most
> of America is too dumb to understand they were had. And the press should be
> ashamed of themselves for letting all these lies reach the national news
without
> verifying any of the details. I don't blame Bush, because he is just like a
> monkey throwing feces at the zoo. How can you get mad at a monkey because he
is
> just being a monkey. But the press owes us better than they have
> delivered.
>
> http://www.glcq.com/trans.htm
>
>
Richard
>George Bush's Secret War
>By Michael Kinsley
>Sunday, August 29, 2004; Page B07
>
>LOS ANGELES -- Veterans of George W. Bush's National Guard unit charged
>today that the president has misrepresented his military service during the
>Vietnam War. The veterans allege that during a period when the future
>president was supposed to be serving in the Texas Air National Guard, he was
>actually fighting in Vietnam.
>
>"For more than 30 years we have remained silent," said the head of the
>group, which calls itself "Stiff Drink Veterans for Kerry, Whoops We Mean
>for Brewsky, Whoops We Mean for Truth." But, he added, "We want to be on
>Larry King just as much as those Swift Vote guys."
>
>Two members of the group claim to be eyewitnesses. "It was a typical night
>at the Guard offices," one of them recalled at a press conference yesterday.
>"Okay, I'd had a few. But I personally saw George parachute down from a
>B-52, kill a dozen Cong with his bare hands, leap into one of those Swift
>boat thingies and stick his tongue out at John Kerry."
Ah, poor Mike Kinsley. Goes from being hyper reactive commentator on
CNN's Crossfire to being czar of some e-zine, now he's reduced to
trying to become a junior Art Buchwald. His mother (who wanted him
to be a doctor) must be SO proud.
-Rich
Jim
Don't feed the damn trolls!
zach
Hmm. Bush is not running on a record of his being arrested for DWI.
Kerry is running on a record of committing war atrocities, saying he
was sorry about it (note: he never paid for his crimes). If this is
Leftist penultimate moral standing, I shudder to think what is beyond
that--- perhaps killing and mass slaughter that Leftists are so good
at, like the type Kerry helped facilitate when he sold out our
Vietnamese comrades and was instrumental in comdemning millions of
people to slaughter, imprisonment, oppression and diaspora. Bush paid
the price for his transgressions. When will Kerry? Or will he continue
to be proud of them?
Mitchell Holman
news:f7fbe28c.04082...@posting.google.com:
> Mitchell Holman <ta2eene...@comcast.com> wrote in message
> news:<Xns95545400A...@204.127.204.17>...
>> cornu...@yahoo.com (ElaineJ) wrote in
>> news:632e2a29.04082...@posting.google.com:
>>
>> > "Pam or C. Wayne Owens" <pnwo...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>> > news:<1JdYc.14635$rI6....@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>...
>> >> So was I. I personally know of it happening to several people.
>> >> Mickey Owens, sheriff of Springfield, Mo (and former failed
>> >> professional baseball player) had N.G. list positions for sale. It
>> >> was well known that politicians could arrange it for you. It was
>> >> offered to me, but I didn't take it. Now...can we please talk about
>> >> movies!!!!!!!!!!!! wayne
>> >
>> > Very interesting. So all this sorry b.s. is the radical right
>> > flooding the *entire* net with cheap lies and phony history.
>> > Figures.
>> > They need us tightly focused on 35+ years ago, so we don't look at
>> > BushCo's stupid mismanagement.
>>
>>
>> Modern Conservative: Someone who can take time out
>> from complaining about Kerrys antiwar protests and
>> testifying before Congress to remind us that Bush's
>> arrests and drunk driving in the same time period is
>> "irrelevant","stale news", and "ancient history".
>
> Hmm. Bush is not running on a record of his being arrested for DWI.
No, but his followers seem to deem irrelevant
anything he did prior to 1992.
> Kerry is running on a record of committing war atrocities, saying he
> was sorry about it (note: he never paid for his crimes). If this is
> Leftist penultimate moral standing, I shudder to think what is beyond
> that--- perhaps killing and mass slaughter that Leftists are so good
> at, like the type Kerry helped facilitate when he sold out our
> Vietnamese comrades and was instrumental in comdemning millions of
> people to slaughter, imprisonment, oppression and diaspora. Bush paid
> the price for his transgressions.
What "price" did Bush pay for what transgression?
He has been lying his ass off for 30 years and you
guys love him for it. The candidate of "What Would
Jesus Do" is the candidate of "I don't owe anyone
an explanation for anything".
Mitchell Holman
"Gov. George W. Bush, who acknowledged Thursday that
he pleaded guilty in 1976 to a drunken driving charge,
told The Dallas Morning News two years ago that he had
not been arrested after 1968."
Dallas Morning News, 11/4/00
DonnieM1073
> flooding the *entire* net with cheap lies and phony history.
You mean like all the stupid pro-Michael Moore bullshit you PC nazis flooded
the newsgroups with last month?
I suggest you look in your own backyard first before you condem the other
side.
DonnieM1073
> from complaining about Kerrys antiwar protests and
> testifying before Congress to remind us that Bush's
> arrests and drunk driving in the same time period is
> "irrelevant","stale news", and "ancient history".
>
Modern Liberal: Someone who can take time out from listening to fat
windbags like Michael Moore to remind us that it's ok to commit atrocities
in Viet-Nam while focusing on George Bush's DWI.
DonnieM1073
Kerry did a lot of sorry things back in the late-60s, early 70s. It's now
coming back to bite him in the ass.
You can't deal with that? Too bad. Tough...
Tom Betz
news:f7fbe28c.04082...@posting.google.com:
> Bush is not running on a record of his being arrested for DWI.
Bush, like Kerry, run on their entire record, whether or not
they -- or you -- are happy with that fact.
Don't pretend otherwise.
--
Where was AWOL George W. Bush?
<http://www.glcq.com/bush_at_arpc1.htm>
Any government will waste money.
Only the worst waste lives.
Chris
"DonnieM1073" <Don...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cgtfu...@news4.newsguy.com...
Ok let talk about the atrocities in Iraq
>
>
Jerry Okamura
Cambodia. He said the memory of that time was "seared in his memory"
because it was Xmas. Did he tell the truth, or did he lie.
"Mike777" <mik...@nomailattbi.com> wrote in message
news:1AoYc.203252$8_6.182193@attbi_s04...
deer...@mindspring.com
Yup. Along with nitpicking and insisting that everyone else but them
adhere to exact process/the letter of the law, it's a prime
time-wasting strategy.
C.
**
deer...@mindspring.com
Jerry Okamura wrote:
> Yes, Kerry could have done the same thing as Bush and reduced his odds of
> going to Vietnam. But let me also point out that Kerry had lost his draft
> deferment and found himself in a postion that he could have been drafted.
> So, like some, he choose to volunteer, so that he could make a choice of
> which branch of the service he would serve. He could have joined the army,
> and tried to become a special service officier, and that surely would have
> been a whole lot more dangerous that being on a river patrol. Or he could
> have joined the marines.
Um...river patrol _was_ one of the most dangerous tours of duty. Do
you know anything about this time period or are you too lazy to look
it up, or...?
C.
**
(who figures this guy is your standard Repub. "blather, rinse,
repeat talking-points" drone)
Richard
<okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>Was Kerry in Cambodia? That is part of his "war record"? He said he was in
>Cambodia. He said the memory of that time was "seared in his memory"
>because it was Xmas. Did he tell the truth, or did he lie.
This is very hard to believe. I just finished a book written by
a general about activities on the Cambodian border during
the years 1964-1971 and the restrictions against transgressing
the border were so severe you couldn't pursue the enemy even
during full firefight. While there were some incursions into
Cambodia (bombing for sure) the people that went in were
Special Forces or CIA, neither of which Kerry was. Still, he did
get two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star so maybe he was
a secret agent during his long 4-month stint?
-Rich
Richard
Saddams gone. There are far fewer now I'm sure.
-Rich
DonnieM1072
<deer...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:41326E31...@mindspring.com...
Yup. And when your side does exactly just that, then you'll have something
to talk about.
Driftwood
> I presume by your reply the answer is yes. If that is the case, then how
> did the National Guard decide who they would accept and who they would
not.
>
>
Waiting list and a test. When Bush got in, he only scored on the 25th
percentile of the tests and the waiting list for all national guard units
in the country was 100000 men long. He skipped the entire waiting list.
Rumpelstiltskin
wrote:
Saddam was OK. Just think how much better off the
Iraqi people were under him than they would be under
Satan. Saddam's a good guy, therefore.
Rumpelstiltskin
You should step back and note, certainly not with admiration
but with appreciation, that they're actually pulling it off. Are the
American people really such suckers as to allow this stuff to
keep them from thinking about how they have fared under the
Bush administration? Apparently so. Cicero complained that
all that the people want is bread and circuses, but apparently
just the circuses are enough nowadays.
Rumpelstiltskin
<okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>Was Kerry in Cambodia? That is part of his "war record"? He said he was in
>Cambodia. He said the memory of that time was "seared in his memory"
>because it was Xmas. Did he tell the truth, or did he lie.
Oh, we've beat this one to death. Let's talk about Laura
Bush running down and killing her ex-boyfriend instead.
It may be the reason GWBush has been scared to leave her,
which casts doubt on the motive behind his "traditional
values". Surely that's just as legitimate a political topic:
(And I certainly will just laugh off any of the Swift Boat
supporters hypocritically attacking me for being tasteless
in the above.)
uncleward
>Are you really that ignorant about the Vietnam War? Men were trying to get
>into the National Guard to try to avoid being drafter and sent to fight in
>Vietnam. Back then Guard units rarely were activated for combat and the
>unit that Bush got into never was. There were long waiting lists to get
>into Guard units. GW Bush used his family connections to get to the top of
>the list and to get in.
>
>
>Corse
Clearly Jerry does not even read his local paper -- the Honolulu
Advertiser of Sunday had an item from a man who had formerly served on
a draft board in Texas who regretted that he had participated in the
ugly charade of getting the sons of the rich and powerful out of the
shadow of Vietnam.b Page five or six of the first section.
ward
-----------------------------------------------------
"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful
and well-placed... managed to wangle slots in Reserve
and National Guard units...Of the many tragedies of
Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as
the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are
created equal and owe equal allegiance to their
country."
Colin Powell’s autobiography,
My American Journey, p. 14
-----------------------------------------------------
>
>"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:rtRXc.18311$Qa4....@twister.socal.rr.com...
>
>Why would anyone needs their parents to get into the National Guard during
>that time?
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------
"Had we had to do it over again, we would look at the
consequences of catastrophic success, being so successful
so fast that an enemy that should have surrendered or
been done in escaped and lived to fight another day."
George W Bush (who else?)
------------------------------------------------------
uncleward
wrote:
>On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:34:17 -0700, "Chris" <c...@zero.com> wrote:
INDEED! There are fewer -- but this time they are OURS!
ward
uncleward
wrote:
In the late 60s he brought back the news that we were embroiled in a
hopeless ATROCIOUS war and one that was unwinnable, a quagmire
By reason of his testimony there can be little doubt that THOUSANDS of
American and Vietnamese were saved from death!
uncleward
<Marc...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>You are such a friggen idiot.. There was **NO** waiting list. Blows your
>whole bull out of the water doesn't it... :)
Nope!
ward
>
>"Corse" <Esr...@pobox.com> wrote in message
>news:xK5Yc.13360$Mi1....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
>> Have you had your IQ checked lately? People got themselves bumped up on
>the
>> waiting list for the National Guard through political influence. GW
>Bush's
>> father was rich and well connect in the Republican party. He used his
>> influence to get GW put on the top of the waiting list so he could get
>into
>> the National Guard rather than being drafted and sent to Vietnam. Get
>it?
>>
>>
>> Corse
>>
>>
>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:OI2Yc.13875$Bt5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
>> So? A heck of a lot of people did all kinds of things to avoid going into
>> the military. Some even went to Canada as I recall. Besides, why would
>> anyone needs their parents to get into the National Guard during that
>time?
>> Was there a maximum number that the National Guard would accept on a
>monthly
>> or yearly basis?
>>
>> "Corse" <Esr...@pobox.com> wrote in message
>> news:93ZXc.12649$9O3....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
>> > Are you really that ignorant about the Vietnam War? Men were trying to
>> get
>> > into the National Guard to try to avoid being drafter and sent to fight
>in
>> > Vietnam. Back then Guard units rarely were activated for combat and
>the
>> > unit that Bush got into never was. There were long waiting lists to get
>> > into Guard units. GW Bush used his family connections to get to the top
>> of
>> > the list and to get in.
>> >
>> >
>> > Corse
>> >
>> >
>> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>> > news:rtRXc.18311$Qa4....@twister.socal.rr.com...
>> >
>> > Why would anyone needs their parents to get into the National Guard
>during
>> > that time?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
-------------------------------------------------------
Richard
wrote:
Is this supposed to be a surprise? How many rich people (Repubs or
Demos) don't use their influence or connections to get things
for their daughters or sons? How many of us wouldn't were we
in the same position? Fact is, it's been a few years since armies
were composed mainly of the nobility, like 800 years or so.
-Rich
Jerry Okamura
<deer...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:41326F08...@mindspring.com...
>
>
> Jerry Okamura wrote:
>
> > Yes, Kerry could have done the same thing as Bush and reduced his odds
of
> > going to Vietnam. But let me also point out that Kerry had lost his
draft
> > deferment and found himself in a postion that he could have been
drafted.
> > So, like some, he choose to volunteer, so that he could make a choice of
> > which branch of the service he would serve. He could have joined the
army,
> > and tried to become a special service officier, and that surely would
have
> > been a whole lot more dangerous that being on a river patrol. Or he
could
> > have joined the marines.
>
> Um...river patrol _was_ one of the most dangerous tours of duty. Do
> you know anything about this time period or are you too lazy to look
> it up, or...?
>
dangerous tours of duty. Compared to what?
Jerry Okamura
"Rumpelstiltskin" <PleaseDoNot...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:6v95j0d7chhamiq27...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 23:45:42 GMT, "Jerry Okamura"
> <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >Was Kerry in Cambodia? That is part of his "war record"? He said he was
in
> >Cambodia. He said the memory of that time was "seared in his memory"
> >because it was Xmas. Did he tell the truth, or did he lie.
>
>
>
> Oh, we've beat this one to death. Let's talk about Laura
> Bush running down and killing her ex-boyfriend instead.
> It may be the reason GWBush has been scared to leave her,
> which casts doubt on the motive behind his "traditional
> values". Surely that's just as legitimate a political topic:
Laura Bush is not running for President. But if you want to discuss her
life, that is okay with me. If that is important to some voters, I see no
reason why it should not be discussed.
Jerry Okamura
"uncleward" <uncl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bgu5j05d5t1tajn6t...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 10:24:05 GMT, "Corse" <Esr...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> >Are you really that ignorant about the Vietnam War? Men were trying to
get
> >into the National Guard to try to avoid being drafter and sent to fight
in
> >Vietnam. Back then Guard units rarely were activated for combat and the
> >unit that Bush got into never was. There were long waiting lists to get
> >into Guard units. GW Bush used his family connections to get to the top
of
> >the list and to get in.
> >
> >
> >Corse
>
>
> Clearly Jerry does not even read his local paper -- the Honolulu
> Advertiser of Sunday had an item from a man who had formerly served on
> a draft board in Texas who regretted that he had participated in the
> ugly charade of getting the sons of the rich and powerful out of the
> shadow of Vietnam.b Page five or six of the first section.
>
the Maui News is my "local" nespaper. The Oahu based newspapers are about
as local to me as the San Franscico Examiner or the Orange County
Register(?) would have been to me when I lived in Los Angeles.
DonnieM1072
> On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:01:57 -0400, "DonnieM1073" <Don...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"ElaineJ" <cornu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:632e2a29.04082...@posting.google.com...
> >> "Corse" <Esr...@pobox.com> wrote in message
> >news:<gO9Yc.13434$d23....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>...
> >> > If you had lived in the 60s you would have read about it. There's
been
> >many
> >> > books and articles written on the subject. Do a search with Google.
> >It's
> >> > common knowledge by the way. I feel like I"m reinventing the wheel
> >here.
> >> > Corse
> >>
> >> You are. It's not an accident. "Reinventing the wheel" keeps us
> >> focused on their pointing finger instead of BushCo's miserable joke of
> >> a record.
> >
> >Kerry did a lot of sorry things back in the late-60s, early 70s. It's
now
> >coming back to bite him in the ass.
> >
> >You can't deal with that? Too bad. Tough...
> >
>
> In the late 60s he brought back the news that we were embroiled in a
> hopeless ATROCIOUS war and one that was unwinnable, a quagmire
Oh my. How 'profound'. (yawn...)
>
> By reason of his testimony there can be little doubt that THOUSANDS of
> American and Vietnamese were saved from death!
>
Sarcasm alert?
Or are you really that delusional?
I suspect the latter...
/cluster-fuck\
> <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >Was Kerry in Cambodia? That is part of his "war record"? He said he was
in
> >Cambodia. He said the memory of that time was "seared in his memory"
> >because it was Xmas. Did he tell the truth, or did he lie.
>
>
>
> Oh, we've beat this one to death. Let's talk about Laura
> Bush running down and killing her ex-boyfriend instead.
> It may be the reason GWBush has been scared to leave her,
> which casts doubt on the motive behind his "traditional
> values". Surely that's just as legitimate a political topic:
And so's flying saucers landing in my back yard.
>
> (And I certainly will just laugh off any of the Swift Boat
> supporters hypocritically attacking me for being tasteless
> in the above.)
I'm already laughing my ass off at you if that's the best you can come with.
Rumpelstiltskin
<okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
>"Rumpelstiltskin" <PleaseDoNot...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
>news:6v95j0d7chhamiq27...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 23:45:42 GMT, "Jerry Okamura"
>> <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Was Kerry in Cambodia? That is part of his "war record"? He said he was
>in
>> >Cambodia. He said the memory of that time was "seared in his memory"
>> >because it was Xmas. Did he tell the truth, or did he lie.
>>
>>
>>
>> Oh, we've beat this one to death. Let's talk about Laura
>> Bush running down and killing her ex-boyfriend instead.
>> It may be the reason GWBush has been scared to leave her,
>> which casts doubt on the motive behind his "traditional
>> values". Surely that's just as legitimate a political topic:
>
>Laura Bush is not running for President. But if you want to discuss her
>life, that is okay with me. If that is important to some voters, I see no
>reason why it should not be discussed.
>
>
Well, I spoke (in black and tasteless jest) of the effect
the situation would have on GWBush, so it is relevant.
deer...@mindspring.com
Jerry Okamura wrote:
>
> <deer...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:41326F08...@mindspring.com...
> >
> >
> > Jerry Okamura wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, Kerry could have done the same thing as Bush and reduced his odds
> of
> > > going to Vietnam. But let me also point out that Kerry had lost his
> draft
> > > deferment and found himself in a postion that he could have been
> drafted.
> > > So, like some, he choose to volunteer, so that he could make a choice of
> > > which branch of the service he would serve. He could have joined the
> army,
> > > and tried to become a special service officier,
Um, Special Services folks usually escorted USO tours around. If you
meant Special Forces, well, the soldier whose life Kerry saved was
SF...:)
> What does it mean when we say that the river patrol was one of the most
> dangerous tours of duty. Compared to what?
Compared to asking for reassignment to a large ship for a second
tour of duty, which Kerry easily could have done. Do you have _any_
idea what river patrol entailed? You are talking small boats manned
by five, six crewmembers tops, who had to patrol densely-wooded,
sniper-laden shores and isolated river inlets looking for enemy
forces/securing perimeters in a war during which the boundaries were
always changing. What, did you think Kerry spent his time rescuing
surfers or aiding long-boats or something?
C.
**
(Man, go read some damm history. If your ignorance isn't deliberate,
it's embarrasing.)
deer...@mindspring.com
CyberDroog wrote:
>
> Well, we *thought* he spent some time in Cambodia... so God only knows
> what the truth is.
So in other words if Kerry is lying about being in Cambodia (which
is not likely, given that river patrols also assisted in black-ops),
he's lying about river patrol being dangerous? And all those men who
served with him are lying that he was there and it was a dangerous
gig too?
C.
**
(Ah, the hell with it. Not a _one_ of you right-wing talking drones
would have the guts to serve in the Army, yet you are questioning
someone who did and demonstrably earned his medals? The day you ship
out for Najaf, please let us all know. :P)
com...@webtv.net
original "minutemen" the communists just hate them for that !
HAHAHHAHAA they really do.....
"The real WMD's in Iraq are the Terrorists we are fighting. N erve gas,
nukes,poison are all worthless without a Terrorist to use them"
zach
If I could sweat, I'd be there. But I don't question Kerry earning his
medals (that's for the Swift Boat dudes), I question someone who
admitted to comitting war atrocities calling everyone else who served
war criminals (which he has yet to repudiate), while calling himself a
"war hero." Kerry is a piece of sh*t.
Jim
wrote:
You are right about the man. Do something in your community! Get on
TV or the radio on the 12. Call five other Vietnam Vets and have them
each call 5. Rally somewhere if not the Kerry campaign office. Make
some damn noise and make our communities know just how Kerry fucked us
over with his lies. You owe it to your own service and those serving
today. They are going be lied about as some have been already.
Do something in the public that will make the point partner. I will
be attending my first protest ever.
deer...@mindspring.com
zach wrote:
> If I could sweat, I'd be there.<
Huh? Come on, what kind of "girlie-man" excuse is that? :)
But I don't question Kerry earning his
> medals (that's for the Swift Boat dudes), I question someone who
> admitted to comitting war atrocities calling everyone else who served
> war criminals (which he has yet to repudiate), while calling himself a
> "war hero." Kerry is a piece of sh*t.
So he should have _not_ protested a war he knew was immoral because
he was actually _there_ and committed atrocities? Boy, I'd love to
know what you think of corporate/government whistle-blowers who
expose the people they work with who are doing wrong. Should they
not say anything either? And what do you call Bush, Cheney, and any
number of this administration's leaders who avoided serving at
_all_?
C.
**
deer...@mindspring.com
Jim wrote:
> You are right about the man. Do something in your community! Get on
> TV or the radio on the 12. Call five other Vietnam Vets and have them
> each call 5. Rally somewhere if not the Kerry campaign office. Make
> some damn noise and make our communities know just how Kerry fucked us
> over with his lies. You owe it to your own service and those serving
> today. They are going be lied about as some have been already.
While you are at it, why don't you ask why the Bush twins aren't
doing some kind of military service? (And, no, fighting the Battle
of Nobu and 23rd Street doesn't count--g!0 It's a sin and a shame
those girls get to swan around New York like sorority princesses
when poor kids their age are coming home crippled or dead. At the
least, they should be visiting injured vets at Walter Reed. Or
_something_.
>
> Do something in the public that will make the point partner. I will
> be attending my first protest ever.
Exactly _how_ did he fuck you over--by protesting a war he (and any
solider with sense) knew was bad news? You all really should just
'fess up--you hate Kerry because he had the guts to say that war was
wrong--a fact you still haven't admitted to yourselves.
C.
**
Not your business
When that was denied, he enlisted in the Reserves, just like Bush in
the Guard. Kerry's unit, unlike Bush's, was called up. Kerry then
applied for and got the safest duty in the Navy, Swift Boats. Then
the mission changed, and he had to serve on the rivers until his third
Purple Heart (and his commanders) sent him home.
In short, Kerry did not enlist for active duty, he did not say "take
me", he tried to stay out of harm's way. That's not bad, it's smart,
but don't try to make it look like he signed up to do duty in country
and volunteered for hazardous duty.
deer...@mindspring.com
Not your business wrote:
>
> Then I guess Kerry was a coward, too? He tried to get a deferment.
> When that was denied, he enlisted in the Reserves, just like Bush in
> the Guard. Kerry's unit, unlike Bush's, was called up. Kerry then
> applied for and got the safest duty in the Navy, Swift Boats.
Why the dickens do folks think "swift boating" was safe? Do you
think these guys were towing surfers around the Mekong Delta or
something? If Kerry wanted a safe gig, he would have opted for duty
on one of the big ships/carriers or escorting USO tours. Instead he
signed up to patrol unsecured shores, help ferry Special
Forces/black ops. guys into hostile territory, and face snipers
every single day. If you aren't getting your information from
history books, you are repeating GOP talking points with no
knowledge to back them up.
C.
**
(Or the sense to check what his duties actually entailed yourself.
But since that would involve _thinking_ and possibly learning to
read for yourself, well...g!)
Jerry Okamura
<deer...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4136A8CA...@mindspring.com...
>
>
> Not your business wrote:
> >
> > Then I guess Kerry was a coward, too? He tried to get a deferment.
> > When that was denied, he enlisted in the Reserves, just like Bush in
> > the Guard. Kerry's unit, unlike Bush's, was called up. Kerry then
> > applied for and got the safest duty in the Navy, Swift Boats.
>
> Why the dickens do folks think "swift boating" was safe? Do you
> think these guys were towing surfers around the Mekong Delta or
> something? If Kerry wanted a safe gig, he would have opted for duty
> on one of the big ships/carriers or escorting USO tours. Instead he
> signed up to patrol unsecured shores, help ferry Special
> Forces/black ops. guys into hostile territory, and face snipers
> every single day. If you aren't getting your information from
> history books, you are repeating GOP talking points with no
> knowledge to back them up.
>
people in a swift boat. But a switft boat is a lot safer than say being in
one of those isolated outposts, acting like flypaper, waiting for someone to
attack you, with no easy way out.
Belmont
>
> Not your business wrote:
>
>>Then I guess Kerry was a coward, too? He tried to get a deferment.
>>When that was denied, he enlisted in the Reserves, just like Bush in
>>the Guard. Kerry's unit, unlike Bush's, was called up. Kerry then
>>applied for and got the safest duty in the Navy, Swift Boats.
>
>
> Why the dickens do folks think "swift boating" was safe?
Senator Kerry joined the Navy Reserve and did not expect to go to
Vietnam. When Kerry did go to Vietnam the swift boats were not
doing river patrols. They were doing coastal patrols and were not in
much danger. That is when he volunteered to join the Swiftee's.
The assignment of those boats was changed after he was accepted
for the duty. Surprise, he got action and the rest is disputed history.
As Kerry has admitted in "Tour of Duty", he was ordered against his will
to Coastal Division ELEVEN in An Thoi in December 1968.
Tedd Peck recalls Kerry's constant griping about the transfer. In "Tour
of Duty", Brinkley writes that both Kerry and Peck were opposed to their
assignment. Following Kerry's account, Brinkley quoted Peck telling his
men, "There was no way I was leaving Cam Ranh Bay voluntarily to go up
the rivers. That was a suicide mission."
William Franks echoes Peck's explanation.
Kerry vigorously protested being transfered to An Thoi, arguing that he
had volunteered only for coastal patrol and not for the far more
hazardous duty of missions within the inland waterways.
Bushsucks
Are you in Special Ed?
Jerry Okamura wrote:
>
> "mack" <mack...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
> news:10j1p3p...@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:OI2Yc.13875$Bt5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
> > > So? A heck of a lot of people did all kinds of things to avoid going
> into
> > > the military. Some even went to Canada as I recall. Besides, why would
> > > anyone needs their parents to get into the National Guard during that
> > time?
> > > Was there a maximum number that the National Guard would accept on a
> > monthly
> > > or yearly basis?
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > bingo.
Not your business
>
>
>Not your business wrote:
>>
>> Then I guess Kerry was a coward, too? He tried to get a deferment.
>> When that was denied, he enlisted in the Reserves, just like Bush in
>> the Guard. Kerry's unit, unlike Bush's, was called up. Kerry then
>> applied for and got the safest duty in the Navy, Swift Boats.
>
>Why the dickens do folks think "swift boating" was safe? Do you
>think these guys were towing surfers around the Mekong Delta or
>something? If Kerry wanted a safe gig, he would have opted for duty
>on one of the big ships/carriers or escorting USO tours. Instead he
>signed up to patrol unsecured shores, help ferry Special
>Forces/black ops. guys into hostile territory, and face snipers
>every single day. If you aren't getting your information from
>history books, you are repeating GOP talking points with no
>knowledge to back them up.
Hey idiot...check your own history. These aren't talking points, they
are Kerry's own account and supported by his Navy records, at least
the one's he has seen fit to release. He said he signed up for duty
off the coast, out of harm's way. He did not sign up to "patrol
unsecured shores, help ferry Special Forces/black ops. guys into
hostile territory, and face snipers every single day," although that
is what he ended up assigned to. The point you Dems seem to ignore in
your "anyone but Bush" hatred is that Kerry did everything he could to
avoid combat...not once, but three times: deferment, reserves, off
shore duty.
Chris
"Not your business" <noone...@home.com> wrote in message
news:0lmfj09qgcaae5uha...@4ax.com...
Then volunteered for Brown water duty Twice.
deer...@mindspring.com
Not your business wrote:
> Hey idiot...check your own history. These aren't talking points, they
> are Kerry's own account and supported by his Navy records, at least
> the one's he has seen fit to release.
No, that is your biased "gotta prove Kerry is a coward"
interpretation of them. And I doubt you've read any of these
first-hand, in any case.
> He said he signed up for duty
> off the coast, out of harm's way. He did not sign up to "patrol
> unsecured shores, help ferry Special Forces/black ops. guys into
> hostile territory, and face snipers every single day," although that
> is what he ended up assigned to. The point you Dems seem to ignore in
> your "anyone but Bush" hatred is that Kerry did everything he could to
> avoid combat...not once, but three times: deferment, reserves, off
> shore duty.
1) A reserve commission (which all Army ROTC and OCS officers got,
btw) _meant_ active duty.
2) His first choice was Swift Boat, which meant combat. And you
still haven't answered the question as to why he didn't ask to be
assigned to a destroyer or to do intelligence work, both of which
would have been less hazardous.
3) And why did he sign up for Swift Boat duty two more times after
the "mission changed?" And "coastal" patrols during wartime is still
hazardous duty, especially when you are patrolling unsecured
shoreline on which snipers routinely set up shop.
C.
**
Jerry Okamura
"Chris" <c...@zero.com> wrote in message
news:4137e032$0$64851$a32e...@news.nntpservers.com...
He may have, but he also "gamed the system" by getting the hell out of Dodge
by using the three purple heart escape route, while many other soldiers who
"could have" taken advantage of that loophole did not.
Jerry Okamura
<deer...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4137E583...@mindspring.com...
>
>
>
> 2) His first choice was Swift Boat, which meant combat. And you
> still haven't answered the question as to why he didn't ask to be
> assigned to a destroyer or to do intelligence work, both of which
> would have been less hazardous.
Because being a fan of John Kennedy, we wanted that ability to run on a
platform that indicated he was a hero perhaps?
>
> 3) And why did he sign up for Swift Boat duty two more times after
> the "mission changed?" And "coastal" patrols during wartime is still
> hazardous duty, especially when you are patrolling unsecured
> shoreline on which snipers routinely set up shop.
>
>
Yep, and he also "bugged out" when he found that he could be killed, ruining
his political goals after the war perhaps? Dead people cannot run for
office.
Rumpelstiltskin
<okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>He may have, but he also "gamed the system" by getting the hell out of Dodge
>by using the three purple heart escape route, while many other soldiers who
>"could have" taken advantage of that loophole did not.
Even if true, do you think that would make Bush or Cheney
stack up as well as Kerry? Do you really think the American
people are such suckers? ... oh, wait. Never mind.
Jerry Okamura
And I am only pointing out that Kerry is not without his flaws.
Rumpelstiltskin
<okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
>"Rumpelstiltskin" <PleaseDoNot...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
>news:kpdhj0d1vae3ct4e3...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 17:22:22 GMT, "Jerry Okamura"
>> <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >He may have, but he also "gamed the system" by getting the hell out of
>Dodge
>> >by using the three purple heart escape route, while many other soldiers
>who
>> >"could have" taken advantage of that loophole did not.
>>
>>
>>
>> Even if true, do you think that would make Bush or Cheney
>> stack up as well as Kerry? Do you really think the American
>> people are such suckers? ... oh, wait. Never mind.
>>
>No it is not "if true". It is "true". What did I say that was not "true"?
>And I am only pointing out that Kerry is not without his flaws.
>
It is true that he got out. It's "if true" that he "gamed the
system". I'd be inclined to agree with you that he was glad
to get out, but I "don't know that" as Bob Thomas might say.
Nor do I know he was "gaming the system" all along. I
suspect killing a guy, in combination with his doubts about
the reasons for war, really weighed on his mind, but I'm
just conjecturing there. He could likely just have gotten into
a country-club national guard outfit or gotten a series of
deferments if didn't want to "do his part" - he was a Boston
Brahmin so he probably had connections.
You're getting desperate, Jerry. If that's a general feeling,
it might indicate the Republicans are very fearful of losing
this election, which is a good thing IMV.
Jerry Okamura
> On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 23:36:37 GMT, "Jerry Okamura"
> <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Rumpelstiltskin" <PleaseDoNot...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
> >news:kpdhj0d1vae3ct4e3...@4ax.com...
> >> On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 17:22:22 GMT, "Jerry Okamura"
> >> <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >He may have, but he also "gamed the system" by getting the hell out of
> >Dodge
> >> >by using the three purple heart escape route, while many other
soldiers
> >who
> >> >"could have" taken advantage of that loophole did not.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Even if true, do you think that would make Bush or Cheney
> >> stack up as well as Kerry? Do you really think the American
> >> people are such suckers? ... oh, wait. Never mind.
> >>
> >No it is not "if true". It is "true". What did I say that was not
"true"?
> >And I am only pointing out that Kerry is not without his flaws.
> >
>
>
> It is true that he got out. It's "if true" that he "gamed the
> system". I'd be inclined to agree with you that he was glad
> to get out, but I "don't know that" as Bob Thomas might say.
> Nor do I know he was "gaming the system" all along
You do not have to "game the system" all along. To get the hell out of
Dodge you only have to "game the system" once.
> You're getting desperate, Jerry. If that's a general feeling,
> it might indicate the Republicans are very fearful of losing
> this election, which is a good thing IMV.
>
I am not desparate at all. As I have said many times before, I am a pretty
happy camper. Heck, I am lucky to still be around after my heart attacks.
Besides, why should I be desparate given the new polling numbers. Now if I
was supporting the other candidate, I "may be" getting desparate, but since
I am not, I have no reason to be "desparate".
Jim
<Impeachth...@moron.com> wrote:
>He explained it three fuckin' times! POLITICAL CONNECTIONS.
>
> Are you in Special Ed?
Now you drag children with learning disabilities into political
competition. Shame on you for your insensitivity.
Belmont
>
> Not your business wrote:
>
>>Hey idiot...check your own history. These aren't talking points, they
>>are Kerry's own account and supported by his Navy records, at least
>>the one's he has seen fit to release.
>
>
> No, that is your biased "gotta prove Kerry is a coward"
> interpretation of them. And I doubt you've read any of these
> first-hand, in any case.
>
>
>> He said he signed up for duty
>>off the coast, out of harm's way. He did not sign up to "patrol
>>unsecured shores, help ferry Special Forces/black ops. guys into
>>hostile territory, and face snipers every single day," although that
>>is what he ended up assigned to. The point you Dems seem to ignore in
>>your "anyone but Bush" hatred is that Kerry did everything he could to
>>avoid combat...not once, but three times: deferment, reserves, off
>>shore duty.
>
>
> 1) A reserve commission (which all Army ROTC and OCS officers got,
> btw) _meant_ active duty.
>
> 2) His first choice was Swift Boat, which meant combat.
According to a Kerry biography written by Boston Globe reporters, Swift
Boats were considered safe at the time: "Kerry also believed a swift
boat assignment would keep him away from the frontlines of combat."
Kerry confirmed it in 1986 when he wrote, "At the time, the boats had
very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling
and that's what I thought I was going to be doing. Although I wanted to
see what was going on, I didn't want to get involved in the war."
Kerry spent his first month at Cam Rahn Bay, a French tourist town with
a well protected deep-water harbor and beautiful white beaches, the
safest place in all of Vietnam.
The Swift Boat's mission changed, Kerry was transferred and was stuck in
an assignment he did not want. Kerry did not volunteer to go into combat
and tried everything he could to avoid going.
Come join us in DC September 12th. and learn more about Kerry.
CJT
The folks who "gamed the system" never found themselves being shot at
like Kerry did. Cheney -- deferments; Bush -- champagne unit.
>
>> You're getting desperate, Jerry. If that's a general feeling,
>>it might indicate the Republicans are very fearful of losing
>>this election, which is a good thing IMV.
>>
>
> I am not desparate at all. As I have said many times before, I am a pretty
> happy camper. Heck, I am lucky to still be around after my heart attacks.
> Besides, why should I be desparate given the new polling numbers. Now if I
> was supporting the other candidate, I "may be" getting desparate, but since
> I am not, I have no reason to be "desparate".
>
>
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