AB Dick 360 - 4 color halftone - Is it possible?
David Shapiro
I am the editor, reporter, printer and bindery guy in charge of producing a
magazine for the enjoyment and education of approximately 2000 City of
Richmond employees. I acquired a print shop at a very attractive price from
a fellow who because of geographic location could not make his AB Dick 360
profitable. I have never printed offset before, but my background was in
screen-printing and I have a good understanding of prepress, darkroom and
basic concepts of photolithography. I have struggled to produce eight
editions of my magazine on this AB Dick 360 and I believe I am now at a
point in my quest for quality printing on a shoestring, that I must
overcome some troubling problems that I have encountered.
I have a number of questions?
1) Does anyone have first hand experience with a device manufactured by the
Wiser Company, call "Perfecto Registration" which seems to be a device for
jogging the paper to the right and forward to achieve two point
registration. The illustration shows that it rides on the vacuum manifold
and consists of an arm with a sponge rubber finger that pulls the top sheet
towards the right until the grippers grab hold and pull it into the
forwarding rollers. At the same time you run the left hand spring guides
loose or not at all so the paper easily floats to the right and forward.
2) Is it possible to print four color halftone work on the 360? with or
without the "Perfecto Registration" device? What percentage of wasted
sheets is to be expected?
3) The press has a T-head. Can four-color halftones be successfully printed
using the T-head and only running the paper through twice?
4) The press has the conventional aquamatic water system with the smooth
copper roller. I have read various options for up-grading the water system
of the AB Dick. Most of them expensive, (Kompac, Crestline) and I have also
heard that the press can be converted to alcohol (still expensive). Why can
you not just add some alcohol to the fountain solution on the factory
system? Is there an inexpensive way to upgrade the water system, with the
goal being rich dense ink coverage and less paper waste?
5) Is it possible to have the form rollers rebuilt? Is there any cost
saving over new rollers?
I understand that four color halftone is probably pushing the capability of
this press, but having said that, I want to push the capability, at least
with duotone halftone reproduction and spot color using the T-head. I must
admit that I do want to try to do 4-color work, primarily for the challenge.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
David Shapiro
dsha...@istar.ca
-------------------------------------------------------------
misc.industry.printing is a moderated newsgroup. Postings
are archived and available from PrinterSpace at
http://www.PrinterSpace.com
-------------------------------------------------------------
llprint
>
> Help, anyone using an AB Dick 360 for 4-color halftone work?
>
little 4/c on a 360 without a T-head but wouldn't do so on a routine
basis. The results I saw looked ok for the type of job the customer
wanted, but it was a small run and there was a lot of waste. The job
took about 10 times longer on the 360 than it would have on a press with
better capabilities.
>
> I have a number of questions?
>
> 1) Does anyone have first hand experience with a device manufactured by the
> Wiser Company, call "Perfecto Registration" which seems to be a device for
> jogging the paper to the right and forward to achieve two point
> registration.
I made the mistake of buying one. IMHO it's a piece of JUNK!!! Call
someone at Wizer and ask if they actually ever tested the unit on a
press. I did and was told that they thought it would work but weren't
really sure (so much for R&D). It is useless for flat sheets, but it
does seem to help with envelopes if you modify it a little. If anyone
else reading this knows how to make the thing work, please post it
here. I'd love to know how. They also make an inexpensive powder spray
unit - it broke the first time I used it. Got about 75¢ worth of brass
fittings at the hardware store and replaced the really flimsy plastic
fittings and it's better now. I now have serious doubts about buying
anything from Wizer at this point.
> 2) Is it possible to print four color halftone work on the 360? with or
> without the "Perfecto Registration" device? What percentage of wasted
> sheets is to be expected?
Yes, anything is possible. Is it practical? Not in my opinion.
Percentage of waste = too much. (not just paper, but of your time)
> 3) The press has a T-head. Can four-color halftones be successfully printed
> using the T-head and only running the paper through twice?
Same answer as above.
> 4) The press has the conventional aquamatic water system with the smooth
> copper roller. I have read various options for up-grading the water system
> of the AB Dick. Most of them expensive, (Kompac, Crestline) and I have also
> heard that the press can be converted to alcohol (still expensive). Why can
> you not just add some alcohol to the fountain solution on the factory
> system? Is there an inexpensive way to upgrade the water system, with the
> goal being rich dense ink coverage and less paper waste?
The 360 I've got has an alcohol system. I've used several 360's with
alcohol systems and have been pleased with them. One of the last 360's
I bought needed to be converted to alcohol from conventional. The cost
is around $300 total and takes only a few minutes to install yourself.
The other dampeners do cost a lot more but are probably worth it
depending on your volume.
> 5) Is it possible to have the form rollers rebuilt? Is there any cost
> saving over new rollers?
New form rollers are around $55 +/- a little depending on where you get
them. San Diego Printing Parts list them (Syn Tac brand) at $49.80
upper and $54.05 lower. A set of 5 rubber rollers 2 forms, 2
distributor, ink ductor is $162.00
Their toll free number is 800-845-0537. The other mail order parts
houses are in the same general price range.
>
> I understand that four color halftone is probably pushing the capability of
> this press, but having said that, I want to push the capability, at least
> with duotone halftone reproduction and spot color using the T-head. I must
> admit that I do want to try to do 4-color work, primarily for the challenge.
No doubt about it, it will be a challenge. If you've got the time, go
for it, but don't expect that it can be a profitable or practical way of
printing 4/c. Spot color isn't a problem. We all do that, and even
decent close registration isn't much of a problem assuming your press is
in good condition and the adjustments are correct.
Hope this helps.
Ron Cohen
llp...@virtualhosts.net
Charlie Fred
>Help, anyone using an AB Dick 360 for 4-color halftone work?
David - another problem with running duotones or 4-color on a T-head
is that you will get cross-contamination of your inks on runs much
longer than 500. Laying ink on ink on your blanket will cause the
image to be muddy - then the ink mixture will migrate back up through
your rollers. That is why you would run one color at a time - with
much registration problems.
Yes, it can be done - but expect a lot of waste paper and stock. And
there's nothing quite so exciting as seeing the last color of a 4
color job - and seeing the whole thing as totally out of color
balance (such as people with pink, yellow, or green faces).
Charlie
Willy Pichler
not reasonable to expect high quality, especially with the T-51.
If the separations are done specifically for the AB Dick T-51 (GCR / UCR) to
minimize ink coverage and trapping problems you should be able to run some
forms as 2-pass (KY / MC) and some forms as 3-pass (KY / M / C) Depending
on the quality requirements, I think it's reasonable to expect 25% or more
waste. I had the AB Dick register system on the machine I ran (more than 25
years ago!)
I knew someone in Toronto who did lots of 4-colour process on his AB Dick,
printing buttons, but the quality requirement was low (0% waste) and usually
only a few buttons on the sheet were true 4-col. Most of the sheet was spot
process col. (e.g. "Smiley" in YK)
I don't know anything about the new technology. AFAIK, Wizer, Kompac etc.
didn't even exist when I ran the "Dick".
Willy Pichler
Ottawa, Ontario
mailto:wpic...@bigfoot.com
ICQ 1052931
Ki Ayker
couple of points to consider;
1. The Hamada with a good operator will register soooooooooo much beter then a
360
2. Even though the Hamada was a two color I found I could do much beter work
with less waste running process in four passes, one color at a time.
Having (begrudgingly) worked on 360's the very thought of trying to run
process on one of those just makes me want to break out in hysterical laughter!
Don't waste your time even trying.
Scott