"Having reviewed and considered all these matters, and having considered and weighed the evidence presented by the Plaintiff in its case in-chief, as well as the evidence adduced through cross-examination of the Plaintiff's witnesses, the Court hereby grants Defendants motion and directs that judgment shall be entered in favor of the Defendant, and against Plaintiff, as set forth below."
"In addition, Dr. Sampson admitted to having done absolutely no investigation concerning Defendants' specific products. He admitted to no real knowledge as to their ingredients and acknowledged that he had not seen any of the products prior to the trial."
C. Credibility of Plaintiff's experts
"Furthermore, the Court finds that both Dr. Sampson and Dr. Barrett are biased heavily in favor of the Plaintiff and thus the weight to be accorded their testimony is slight in any event....
...Based on this fact alone, the Court may infer that Dr. Barrett and Sampson are more likely to receive fees for testifying on behalf of NCAHF in future cases if the Plaintiff prevails in the instant action and thereby wins funds to enrich the litigation fund described by Dr. Barrett. It is apparent, therefore, that both men have a direct, personal financial interest in the outcome of this litigation. Based on all of these factors, Dr. Sampson and Dr. Barrett can be described as zealous advocates of the Plaintiff's position, and therefore not neutral or dispassionate witnesses or experts. In light of these affiliations and their orientation, it can fairly be said that Drs. Barrett and Sampson are themselves the client, and therefore their testimony should be accorded little, if any, credibility on that basis as well.
~~~~~~~~~~~
IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF CALIFORNIA IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES
NATIONAL COUNCIL AGAINST HEALTH FRAUD, INC.,
Plaintiff
v.
KING BIO PHARMACEUTICALS, INC.; FRANK J. KING, JR.; and DOES 1-50,
Defendants ________________________________ CASE NO. BC 245271
Assigned for all purposes to Judge Haley J. Fromholz, Dept. 20
REVISED STATEMENT OF DECISION
Pursuant to the Court's order dated December 3, 2001 Defendants King Bio Pharmaceutical, Inc. and Dr. Frank J. King, Jr. hereby submit the following proposed revised statement of decision which incorporates the Court's revisions to that document.
I. Overview of Proceedings
The trial in this action was held commencing on October 22, 2001 in Dept. 20 of the above-entitled court, Hon. Haley J. Fromholz, Judge, presiding. Plaintiff National Council Against Health Fraud, Inc. ("Plaintiff" or "NCAHF") was represented by Morse Mehrban, Esq. Defendants King Bio Pharmaceutical, Inc. and Dr. Frank J. King, Jr. ("Defendants") were represented by Scott D. Pinsky, Esq.
Following opening statements by the parties, Defendants moved for a non-suit pursuant to Code of Civil Procedure § 631.8 on the grounds that the Plaintiff had not identified in its opening statement evidence sufficient to establish a prima facie case. The Court heard argument by counsel for the parties on Defendants' motion and denied the motion without prejudice. Thereafter, NCAHF presented its case, which began with the testimony of two proffered experts, Wallace I. Sampson, M.D. and Stephen Barrett, M.D. Plaintiff also offered brief testimony by its counsel, Mr. Mehrban, and called Defendant Frank J. King as a witness. By stipulation of the parties, the expert witness designated by Defendants, Jacquelyn J. Wilson, M.D., was called by Defendants to testify out of order and during the presentation of the Plaintiff's case due to scheduling reasons. Cross examination was permitted as to all of the above witnesses. In addition to the foregoing evidence, both sides filed extensive trial briefs and supplemental trial briefs both prior to and during the course of the trial, and also submitted further authorities during the course of the proceedings for the Court's consideration.
Following the close of Plaintiff's presentation of evidence, Defendants renewed their motion for judgment pursuant to Code of Civil Procedure § 631.8. The Court again heard argument by counsel for the parties on Defendants' motion. The Court also considered and weighed the evidence presented by the above-stated witnesses for the parties. Moreover, the Court considered the various trial briefs and supplemental trial briefs and supporting authorities submitted and argued by the parties on the issues before the Court. Having reviewed and considered all these matters, and having considered and weighed the evidence presented by the Plaintiff in its case in-chief, as well as the evidence adduced through cross-examination of the Plaintiff's witnesses, the Court hereby grants Defendants motion and directs that judgment shall be entered in favor of the Defendant, and against Plaintiff, as set forth below. The reasons for the Court's ruling are as follows.
II. Plaintiff's claims and elements thereof
Plaintiffs' claims are brought principally under certain provisions of the Cal. Business and Professions ("B & P") Code, specifically B & P Code §§ 17200, 17500 and 17508. Sections 17500 and 17508 of the Code prohibit false or misleading advertising. A violation of these false advertising prohibitions may also constitute a separate, parallel violation of the unfair business practices bar under B & P Code § 17200. Section 17200 also permits an action based on any business practice that is unlawful, fraudulent or unfair. The principal allegations in the Complaint and the focus of the Plaintiff's evidence at trial indicate that the primary violation of law alleged by NCAHF against the Defendants is false advertising, i.e. some form of false, deceptive or misleading statements or representations in the labeling or advertising used by Defendants in marketing their products. The plaintiff did not strongly assert that the Defendants have violated the other prongs of B & P Code § 17200, which prohibit business practices that are unlawful, fraudulent or unfair. Plaintiff did make an attempt to argue that the evidence adduced at trial could be viewed as supporting a finding that Defendants' actions were unlawful, fraudulent or unfair within the meaning of § 17200. But the only evidence offered by Plaintiff concerned the alleged falsity of Defendant's advertising.
Although Plaintiff did not present evidence specifically pertaining to the labeling of Defendants' products, there was no dispute between the parties that the labels affixed to Defendants' products contained substantively the same information as was contained in the advertising which formed the basis for the Plaintiff's claims. The parties further agreed that the products in question are homeopathic drugs regulated under numerous provisions of federal and state law. See 21 U.S.C. §§ 321 et seq.; B & P Code §§ 13 and 4025; Cal. Health & Safety Code §§ 11014, 109985, 111225 and 111235. Plaintiff also admitted that there is no evidence of a violation of such state or federal drug laws by Defendants; Plaintiff offered no evidence or legal authority respecting any such possible violation. Plaintiff further did not dispute that Defendants' products fall squarely within the definition of legal, non-prescription homeopathic "drugs" under both federal and state laws. Id.
Nonetheless, Plaintiff argued and attempted to offer testimony to the effect that the claims stated in Defendants' advertising are scientifically unsupportable and is therefore allegedly false.
III. Burden of proof
The Plaintiff's initial trial brief argued that the burden of proof in this action should be shifted to the Defendants, citing several California and federal administrative cases. The Plaintiff's trial brief seemed implicitly to concede that the Plaintiff could not meet its burden of proof--i.e. the establishment of Defendants' liability by a preponderance of the evidence-if the burden were not so shifted to Defendants. The Defendants filed a supplemental brief responding to the Plaintiff's arguments and asserted that the burden lies with NCAHF and that the cases it cited to the contrary are inapposite or do not govern in California. The Court finds that the authorities cited by the Plaintiff do not support Plaintiff's position on this issue. There appears to be no case in California to support the shifting of the burden of proof to the Defendant in a case of this type. The burden of establishing each element of its claims therefore lies with Plaintiff NCAHF. Cal. Evid. Code § 500.
In a subsequent, supplemental brief, the Plaintiff next argued that even if the burden lies initially with the plaintiff in a false advertising case, only slight evidence is required to then shift the burden to the defendant. This argument was based on several federal appellate opinions from appeals of administrative hearings before the U.S. Federal Trade Commission. No authority was presented to suggest that these decisions are applicable to the issues at bar, namely who has the burden of proof and to what degree in a civil action brought in state Court. Since Plaintiff has failed to demonstrate through appropriate authorities that the burden of proof is in any way transferred or modified by any of the authorities it cited, the Court finds that the burden is on the Plaintiff NCAHF to prove its case by establishing each element of its various causes of action by a preponderance of the evidence.
IV. Analysis and evaluation of evidence
The Court now reviews the evidence presented by the parties.
A. Wallace I. Sampson, M.D.
Dr. Sampson was offered apparently to testify concerning the scientific method generally, standards of clinical medical research the nature of homeopathic medical science, and the nature of the information upon which much of homeopathic science may be said to rest. The thrust of his testimony appeared directed to the conclusion that the
...
>From: il...@san.rr.com (Ilena Rose) >Date: 1/1/02 10:47 AM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <ilena-0101021046220...@dt011n65.san.rr.com> >Another Huge Loss for the Quack Team ...
YEA! Wonder if they will get the message that *THEY* don't control the world,,,,,,,,and QUIT wasting the courts time?????
>"Having reviewed and considered all these matters, and >having considered and weighed the evidence presented by the Plaintiff in its >case in-chief, as well as the evidence adduced through cross-examination of >the Plaintiff's witnesses, the Court hereby grants Defendants motion and >directs that judgment shall be entered in favor of the Defendant, and >against Plaintiff, as set forth below."
>"In addition, Dr. Sampson admitted to having done absolutely no investigation >concerning Defendants' specific products. He admitted to no real knowledge >as to their ingredients and acknowledged that he had not seen any of the >products prior to the trial."
>C. Credibility of Plaintiff's experts
>"Furthermore, the Court finds that both Dr. Sampson and Dr. Barrett are >biased heavily in favor of the Plaintiff and thus the weight to be accorded >their testimony is slight in any event....
>...Based on this fact alone, the Court may infer that Dr. >Barrett and Sampson are more likely to receive fees for testifying on behalf >of NCAHF in future cases if the Plaintiff prevails in the instant action and >thereby wins funds to enrich the litigation fund described by Dr. Barrett. >It is apparent, therefore, that both men have a direct, personal financial >interest in the outcome of this litigation. Based on all of these factors, >Dr. Sampson and Dr. Barrett can be described as zealous advocates of the >Plaintiff's position, and therefore not neutral or dispassionate witnesses >or experts. In light of these affiliations and their orientation, it can >fairly be said that Drs. Barrett and Sampson are themselves the client, and >therefore their testimony should be accorded little, if any, credibility on >that basis as well.
>~~~~~~~~~~~
> IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF CALIFORNIA >IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES
>NATIONAL COUNCIL AGAINST HEALTH FRAUD, INC.,
>Plaintiff
>v.
>KING BIO PHARMACEUTICALS, INC.; FRANK J. KING, JR.; and DOES 1-50,
>Defendants ________________________________ > CASE NO. BC 245271
>Assigned for all purposes to Judge Haley J. Fromholz, Dept. 20
>REVISED STATEMENT OF DECISION
>Pursuant to the Court's order dated December 3, 2001 Defendants King Bio >Pharmaceutical, Inc. and Dr. Frank J. King, Jr. hereby submit the following >proposed revised statement of decision which incorporates the Court's >revisions to that document.
>I. Overview of Proceedings
>The trial in this action was held commencing on October 22, 2001 in Dept. 20 >of the above-entitled court, Hon. Haley J. Fromholz, Judge, presiding. >Plaintiff National Council Against Health Fraud, Inc. ("Plaintiff" or >"NCAHF") was represented by Morse Mehrban, Esq. Defendants King Bio >Pharmaceutical, Inc. and Dr. Frank J. King, Jr. ("Defendants") were >represented by Scott D. Pinsky, Esq.
>Following opening statements by the parties, Defendants moved for a non-suit >pursuant to Code of Civil Procedure § 631.8 on the grounds that the >Plaintiff had not identified in its opening statement evidence sufficient to >establish a prima facie case. The Court heard argument by counsel for the >parties on Defendants' motion and denied the motion without prejudice. >Thereafter, NCAHF presented its case, which began with the testimony of two >proffered experts, Wallace I. Sampson, M.D. and Stephen Barrett, M.D. >Plaintiff also offered brief testimony by its counsel, Mr. Mehrban, and >called Defendant Frank J. King as a witness. By stipulation of the parties, >the expert witness designated by Defendants, Jacquelyn J. Wilson, M.D., was >called by Defendants to testify out of order and during the presentation of >the Plaintiff's case due to scheduling reasons. Cross examination was >permitted as to all of the above witnesses. In addition to the foregoing >evidence, both sides filed extensive trial briefs and supplemental trial >briefs both prior to and during the course of the trial, and also submitted >further authorities during the course of the proceedings for the Court's >consideration.
>Following the close of Plaintiff's presentation of evidence, Defendants >renewed their motion for judgment pursuant to Code of Civil Procedure § >631.8. The Court again heard argument by counsel for the parties on >Defendants' motion. The Court also considered and weighed the evidence >presented by the above-stated witnesses for the parties. Moreover, the Court >considered the various trial briefs and supplemental trial briefs and >supporting authorities submitted and argued by the parties on the issues >before the Court. Having reviewed and considered all these matters, and >having considered and weighed the evidence presented by the Plaintiff in its >case in-chief, as well as the evidence adduced through cross-examination of >the Plaintiff's witnesses, the Court hereby grants Defendants motion and >directs that judgment shall be entered in favor of the Defendant, and >against Plaintiff, as set forth below. The reasons for the Court's ruling >are as follows.
>II. Plaintiff's claims and elements thereof
>Plaintiffs' claims are brought principally under certain provisions of the >Cal. Business and Professions ("B & P") Code, specifically B & P Code §§ >17200, 17500 and 17508. Sections 17500 and 17508 of the Code prohibit false >or misleading advertising. A violation of these false advertising >prohibitions may also constitute a separate, parallel violation of the >unfair business practices bar under B & P Code § 17200. Section 17200 also >permits an action based on any business practice that is unlawful, >fraudulent or unfair. The principal allegations in the Complaint and the >focus of the Plaintiff's evidence at trial indicate that the primary >violation of law alleged by NCAHF against the Defendants is false >advertising, i.e. some form of false, deceptive or misleading statements or >representations in the labeling or advertising used by Defendants in >marketing their products. The plaintiff did not strongly assert that the >Defendants have violated the other prongs of B & P Code § 17200, which >prohibit business practices that are unlawful, fraudulent or unfair. >Plaintiff did make an attempt to argue that the evidence adduced at trial >could be viewed as supporting a finding that Defendants' actions were >unlawful, fraudulent or unfair within the meaning of § 17200. But the only >evidence offered by Plaintiff concerned the alleged falsity of Defendant's >advertising.
>Although Plaintiff did not present evidence specifically pertaining to the >labeling of Defendants' products, there was no dispute between the parties >that the labels affixed to Defendants' products contained substantively the >same information as was contained in the advertising which formed the basis >for the Plaintiff's claims. The parties further agreed that the products in >question are homeopathic drugs regulated under numerous provisions of >federal and state law. See 21 U.S.C. §§ 321 et seq.; B & P Code §§ 13 and >4025; Cal. Health & Safety Code §§ 11014, 109985, 111225 and 111235. >Plaintiff also admitted that there is no evidence of a violation of such >state or federal drug laws by Defendants; Plaintiff offered no evidence or >legal authority respecting any such possible violation. Plaintiff further >did not dispute that Defendants' products fall squarely within the >definition of legal, non-prescription homeopathic "drugs" under both federal >and state laws. Id.
>Nonetheless, Plaintiff argued and attempted to offer testimony to the effect >that the claims stated in Defendants' advertising are scientifically >unsupportable and is therefore allegedly false.
>III. Burden of proof
>The Plaintiff's initial trial brief argued that the burden of proof in this >action should be shifted to the Defendants, citing several California and >federal administrative cases. The Plaintiff's trial brief seemed implicitly >to concede that the Plaintiff could not meet its burden of proof--i.e. the >establishment of Defendants' liability by a preponderance of the evidence-if >the burden were not so shifted to Defendants. The Defendants filed a >supplemental brief responding to the Plaintiff's arguments and asserted that >the burden lies with NCAHF and that the cases it cited to the contrary are >inapposite or do not govern in California. The Court finds that the >authorities cited by the Plaintiff do not support Plaintiff's position on >this issue. There appears to be no case in California to support the >shifting of the burden of proof to the Defendant in a case of this type. The >burden of establishing each element of its claims therefore lies with >Plaintiff NCAHF. Cal. Evid. Code § 500.
>In a subsequent, supplemental brief, the Plaintiff next argued that even if >the burden lies initially with the plaintiff in a false advertising case, >only slight evidence is required to then shift the burden to the defendant. >This argument was based on several federal appellate opinions from appeals >of administrative hearings before the U.S. Federal Trade Commission. No >authority was presented to suggest that these decisions are applicable to >the issues at bar, namely who has the burden of proof and to what degree in >a civil action brought in state Court. Since Plaintiff has failed to >demonstrate through appropriate authorities that the burden of proof is in >any way transferred or modified by any of the authorities it cited, the >Court finds that the burden is on the Plaintiff NCAHF to prove its case by >establishing each element of its various causes of action by a preponderance >of the evidence.
Jan wrote in message <20020101153226.17104.00000...@mb-cv.aol.com>... >>From: il...@san.rr.com (Ilena Rose) >>Date: 1/1/02 10:47 AM Pacific Standard Time >>Message-id: <ilena-0101021046220...@dt011n65.san.rr.com>
>>Another Huge Loss for the Quack Team ...
>YEA! Wonder if they will get the message that *THEY* don't control the >world,,,,,,,,and QUIT wasting the courts time?????
In my opinion the court erred in assuming that there is nothing special about medical claims. Nearly all countries have laws specific to health products requiring those making major health claims to produce evidence for them. The defendant in this case made major claims for his company's remedies, but was not required to show that any of them did what was claimed. The case was dismissed for legalistic reasons.
Are alternative supporters all entirely happy that any old fraud or charlatan can peddle any old snake oil to anyone? Many on this list apparently assume that they can tell the "real thing", but there are a great many less informed (?) people out there, and the sophistication of many scams has moved far beyond what most people can sort out by themselves.
>Subject: Re: Barrett/NCAHF LOSE Again In California >From: "P Moran" pjmo...@gil.com.au >Date: 1/1/02 12:29 PM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <xypY7.102150$li3.1224...@ozemail.com.au>
>Jan wrote in message <20020101153226.17104.00000...@mb-cv.aol.com>... >>>From: il...@san.rr.com (Ilena Rose) >>>Date: 1/1/02 10:47 AM Pacific Standard Time >>>Message-id: <ilena-0101021046220...@dt011n65.san.rr.com>
>>>Another Huge Loss for the Quack Team ...
>>YEA! Wonder if they will get the message that *THEY* don't control the >>world,,,,,,,,and QUIT wasting the courts time?????
>In my opinion the court erred in assuming that there is nothing special >about medical claims. Nearly all countries have laws specific to health >products requiring those making major health claims to produce evidence for >them. The defendant in this case made major claims for his company's >remedies, but was not required to show that any of them did what was >claimed. The case was dismissed for legalistic reasons.
Good.
>Are alternative supporters all entirely happy that any old fraud or >charlatan can peddle any old snake oil to anyone?
I can't speak for all, but anytime Stephen Barrett loses a case, that makes me happy. He is sue happy and has a control problem. Fraud, chalatan, and snake oil are favorite words of *organized medicine*. IMHO Stephen Barrett is a fraud, when he claims to be protecting the public,,,,,,,,,,,but does NOT mention the biggests killers of all.
He needs to QUIT wasting the courts time.
> Many on this list apparently assume that they can tell the "real thing", but there are a great >many less informed (?) people out there, and the sophistication of many >scams has moved far beyond what most people can sort out by themselves.
**Are alternative supporters all entirely happy that any old fraud or **charlatan can peddle any old snake oil to anyone?
You obviously missed the content of the Ruling.
The Judge clearly illustrated that these old frauds and charletans were not "experts" and had no viable cause of action against the defendent ... who had complied to the rules required.
Perhaps a re-reading might illustrate that the Quack Regime pays itself to further its slanted viewpoint ... and for way too many years, have pretended to be experts in matters in which they have a clear and profitable agenda.
"Dr. Barrett's purported legal and regulatory knowledge is not apparent."
The Doctors Sue fabricated a case against this defendent, hired themselves as "experts" ... yet fortunately, fooled no one but themselves in this case.
Another victim of these homeopathic lawsuits contacted me after being sued ... he let me know how Barrett was pushing him to "settle" and even admitted something like they intended to use any monies collected to go after his "competitors."
il...@san.rr.com (Ilena Rose) wrote: >Another victim of these homeopathic lawsuits contacted me after being sued >... he let me know how Barrett was pushing him to "settle" and even >admitted something like they intended to use any monies collected to go >after his "competitors."
Careful, Ilena. You just admitted to being part of a conspiracy.
** **>Another victim of these homeopathic lawsuits contacted me after being sued **>... he let me know how Barrett was pushing him to "settle" and even **>admitted something like they intended to use any monies collected to go **>after his "competitors." ** **Careful, Ilena. You just admitted to being part of a conspiracy. **
in your hallucinations.
i merely re-iterated a phone conversation, Desperado.
Jan wrote in message <20020101162805.08802.00003002@mb- >I can't speak for all, but anytime Stephen Barrett loses a case, that makes me >happy. He is sue happy and has a control problem. Fraud, chalatan, and snake >oil are favorite words of *organized medicine*. IMHO Stephen Barrett is a >fraud, when he claims to be protecting the public,,,,,,,,,,,but does NOT >mention the biggests killers of all.
Why this "thing" about Stephen Barrett? A very wide range of people, including journalists and politicians in some countries are concerned about the explosion of "anything that I can get away with" claims regarding often patently useless health care products, especially when the seriously ill are being targeted. They would see this case as encouraging more of the same. Or, do you not see anything to be worried about?
You have not answered my question as to whether you are content to be bombarded with new unsubstantiated health care claims every day. If you are unfortunate enough to get cancer you will be urged to try a combination of up to sixty different very dubious treatments, or spend thousands of dollars at clinics that are never required to reveal their results .
Until persons WITHIN alternative medicine refuse to accept garbage (read unverifiable anecdotal material), garbage is mostly all they will get.
>Subject: Re: Barrett/NCAHF LOSE Again In California >From: "P Moran" pjmo...@gil.com.au >Date: 1/1/02 3:23 PM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <k6sY7.46$lt4.3...@ozemail.com.au>
>Jan wrote in message <20020101162805.08802.00003002@mb- >>I can't speak for all, but anytime Stephen Barrett loses a case, that makes >me >>happy. He is sue happy and has a control problem. Fraud, chalatan, and >snake >>oil are favorite words of *organized medicine*. IMHO Stephen Barrett is a >>fraud, when he claims to be protecting the public,,,,,,,,,,,but does NOT >>mention the biggests killers of all.
>Why this "thing" about Stephen Barrett?
I have told you what numerous times. Did I mention ALL the REAL diseases he denies??
>A very wide range of people, >including journalists and politicians in some countries are concerned about >the explosion of "anything that I can get away with" claims regarding often >patently useless health care products,
An even wider range of people are concerned about *organized medicine* Who claim that ANYTHING alternative is useless. They are also concerned with getting NO answers. They are TIRED of being told nothing is worng,,,,,,,it's all imagined.
>, especially when the seriously ill are >being targeted.
INDEED,,,,,,,,,,,,,and told they are mentally ill.
They would see this case as encouraging more of the same.
>Or, do you not see anything to be worried about?
Of course. There will always be shams. I am MORE worried about what we know are BIG problems.
>You have not answered my question as to whether you are content to be >bombarded with new unsubstantiated health care claims every day.
Sure I have. I am MORE concerned about the close mindedness of *organized medicine* Many of the *unsubstantiated* health claims will REMAIN unsubstantiated, as long as *organized medicine* stays in *control*. In the meantime many are suffering because of this DENIAL.
> If you are >unfortunate enough to get cancer you will be urged to try a combination of >up to sixty different very dubious treatments, or spend thousands of dollars >at clinics that are never required to reveal their results .
That's where one needs to do their own research. Just as I did. I was one of those *unfortunate* people to get both mercury poisoning and peripheral neuropathy,,,,,,,,,both caused by heavy metals. EVEN though *organized medicine AND dentistry* denies it can happen from metal in the mouth. EVEN though there are tons of studies, documents and evidence proving the dangers!!!!!
>Until persons WITHIN alternative medicine refuse to accept garbage (read >unverifiable anecdotal material), garbage is mostly all they will get.
>Peter
This person WITHIN alternative medicine REFUSED to believe all the *organized medicine and dentistry* GARBAGE,,,,,,,,,,,found my problem and am regaining my health. Had I NOT done my own research and learned which is GARBAGE and which is not,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I shudder to think where I would be right now.
jdrew63...@aol.com (Jan) wrote: >>From: il...@san.rr.com (Ilena Rose) >>Date: 1/1/02 10:47 AM Pacific Standard Time >>Message-id: <ilena-0101021046220...@dt011n65.san.rr.com>
>>Another Huge Loss for the Quack Team ...
>YEA! Wonder if they will get the message that *THEY* don't control the >world,,,,,,,,and QUIT wasting the courts time?????
>Thanks IIena!
>Jan
Good on you, Jan. Why should anyone try to stop people from making false claims in business?
After all, it was just someone trying to be a control freak who wrote in Leviticus 19:35 "Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment, in measures of length, of weight, or of quantity" (That's the American Standard Bible - the KJV says "Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment, in meteyard, in weight, or in measure".)
>Subject: Re: Barrett/NCAHF LOSE Again In California >From: Peter Bowditch pet...@ratbags.com >Date: 1/1/02 8:41 PM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <m9353ucvscvc65bn07u335qh0dapora...@4ax.com>
>>>From: il...@san.rr.com (Ilena Rose) >>>Date: 1/1/02 10:47 AM Pacific Standard Time >>>Message-id: <ilena-0101021046220...@dt011n65.san.rr.com>
>>>Another Huge Loss for the Quack Team ...
>>YEA! Wonder if they will get the message that *THEY* don't control the >>world,,,,,,,,and QUIT wasting the courts time?????
>>Thanks IIena!
>>Jan
>Good on you, Jan. Why should anyone try to stop people from making >false claims in business?
While they are busy making false claims themselves.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
>After all, it was just someone trying to be a control freak who wrote >in Leviticus 19:35 "Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment, in >measures of length, of weight, or of quantity" (That's the American >Standard Bible - the KJV says "Ye shall do no unrighteousness in >judgment, in meteyard, in weight, or in measure".)
You are comparing Stephen Barrett to someone who wrote the bible??
** **>>From: il...@san.rr.com (Ilena Rose) **>>Date: 1/1/02 10:47 AM Pacific Standard Time **>>Message-id: <ilena-0101021046220...@dt011n65.san.rr.com> **> **>>Another Huge Loss for the Quack Team ... **> **>YEA! Wonder if they will get the message that *THEY* don't control the **>world,,,,,,,,and QUIT wasting the courts time????? **> **>Thanks IIena! **> **>Jan ** **Good on you, Jan. Why should anyone try to stop people from making **false claims in business? **
Great ...
However, no one from your Team, ever wants to stop Barrett and his Quack Bu$ine$$ from making false claims in business.
Barrett & Sampson & the rest of the Quack Team have been peddling their phony "Expert" biz for years ... look at these names ... they appear over & over & over ... in NCAHF, ACSH, the accurately named "HealthFraud" list ... they have their cheering teams infiltrated into every discussion and newsgroup on the Internet which discussed alternative therapies and other topics for which they claim false expertise.
They interrogate and make up stories about their non Praisors like me ... yet QuackWatch answers no questions about their "non profit" and refuses to admit their very, very close relationship with ACSH.
This Judge got their game.
EXCERPT from Ruling:
"Furthermore, the Court finds that both Dr. Sampson and Dr. Barrett are biased heavily in favor of the Plaintiff and thus the weight to be accorded their testimony is slight in any event....
...Based on this fact alone, the Court may infer that Dr. Barrett and Sampson are more likely to receive fees for testifying on behalf of NCAHF in future cases if the Plaintiff prevails in the instant action and thereby wins funds to enrich the litigation fund described by Dr. Barrett. It is apparent, therefore, that both men have a direct, personal financial interest in the outcome of this litigation. Based on all of these factors, Dr. Sampson and Dr. Barrett can be described as zealous advocates of the Plaintiff's position, and therefore not neutral or dispassionate witnesses or experts. In light of these affiliations and their orientation, it can fairly be said that Drs. Barrett and Sampson are themselves the client, and therefore their testimony should be accorded little, if any, credibility on that basis as well.
>>After all, it was just someone trying to be a control freak who wrote >>in Leviticus 19:35 "Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment, in >>measures of length, of weight, or of quantity" (That's the American >>Standard Bible - the KJV says "Ye shall do no unrighteousness in >>judgment, in meteyard, in weight, or in measure".)
>You are comparing Stephen Barrett to someone who wrote the bible??
No, Jan. I am pointing out that the writer of Leviticus didn't like people who lied about the measurements of things they sold. I am just saying that chasing after liars who sell distilled water and claim that it contains some magic ingredient is supported by what the Bible says about how business should be conducted.
Are you seriously suggesting that pointing out that someone is acting in accordance with principles set out in the Bible is comparing them with the authors of the Bible? By that reasoning, you should not tell children not to steal because the writers of the Bible said in Exodus 20:15 "Thou shalt not steal" and living by that principle would be comparing yourself with the writers.
>Subject: Re: Barrett/NCAHF LOSE Again In California >From: Peter Bowditch pet...@ratbags.com >Date: 1/1/02 10:12 PM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <dj853uc31uo5iqdelb75uk8o1j291c7...@4ax.com>
>>>After all, it was just someone trying to be a control freak who wrote >>>in Leviticus 19:35 "Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment, in >>>measures of length, of weight, or of quantity" (That's the American >>>Standard Bible - the KJV says "Ye shall do no unrighteousness in >>>judgment, in meteyard, in weight, or in measure".)
>>You are comparing Stephen Barrett to someone who wrote the bible??
>No, Jan. I am pointing out that the writer of Leviticus didn't like >people who lied about the measurements of things they sold.
I think it has been suggested we not discuss the bible or religious subjects. Yet it seems to be those who suggest it to keep bringing it up.
The title of this thread is Barrett/NCAHF LOSE Again in California.
>. I am just >saying that chasing after liars who sell distilled water and claim >that it contains some magic ingredient is supported by what the Bible >says about how business should be conducted.
Oh........so now you are comparing Stephen Barrett's chasing all over after liars to be supported by the bible.
Wonder what it says about those who make claims of protecting the public,,,,,,,,,yet leave out the BIGGEST killers of all???
Or those who DENY REAL diseases that researchers has proven are indeed VERY real?
Or *organizations* that are untruthful and try to control other peoples' choices??
>From: Peter Bowditch pet...@ratbags.com >Date: 1/1/02 10:12 PM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <dj853uc31uo5iqdelb75uk8o1j291c7...@4ax.com>
Ooops, forgot to address this point.
>Are you seriously suggesting that pointing out that someone is acting >in accordance with principles set out in the Bible is comparing them >with the authors of the Bible?
You surly aren't suggesting that someone acting in accordance with the bible is Stephen Barrett??
>By that reasoning, you should not tell >children not to steal because the writers of the Bible said in Exodus >20:15 "Thou shalt not steal" and living by that principle would be >comparing yourself with the writers.
Lord have mercy!
What lengths one puts forth to try and protect the beloved Stephen Barrett.
Jan wrote in message <20020101220347.01106.00001...@mb-mk.aol.com>...
>>Why this "thing" about Stephen Barrett?
>I have told you what numerous times. Did I mention ALL the REAL diseases he >denies??
If you are claiming that every patient claiming to suffer from GWS, CFS, MCS, Amalgam toxicity etc has a purely organic illness, you don't have just Barrett to deal with. Most doctors observe, and a large slice of alternative practice believes, and indeed a lot of research shows, that there are prominent psychosomatic elements in many of those purported to be suffering from these "diagnoses" (if a small few have ALS then it is ALS they have, not "GWS").
And if you want have a piece of someone for being too eager to look for psychological causes of illnesses, I wish you would go after those in the AM camp who insist that even cancer is caused by bad thoughts, and that if you don't get well it is your own fault. I can tell you where to go.
>>Until persons WITHIN alternative medicine refuse to accept garbage (read >>unverifiable anecdotal material), garbage is mostly all they will get.
>>Peter
>This person WITHIN alternative medicine REFUSED to believe all the *organized >medicine and dentistry* GARBAGE,,,,,,,,,,,found my problem and am regaining my >health. Had I NOT done my own research and learned which is GARBAGE and which >is not,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I shudder to think where I would be right now.
I am glad for you, except when you think you can prove something with your own interpretation of your illnesses.
"P Moran" <pjmo...@gil.com.au> writes: >Why this "thing" about Stephen Barrett?
Because he is a biased reporter and very selective in the evidence he posts.
>A very wide range of people, >including journalists and politicians in some countries are concerned about >the explosion of "anything that I can get away with" claims regarding often >patently useless health care products, especially when the seriously ill are >being targeted. They would see this case as encouraging more of the same. >Or, do you not see anything to be worried about?
Not at all, homeopathy is well regulated by the FDA, etc. Barrett chose the wrong target.
>You have not answered my question as to whether you are content to be >bombarded with new unsubstantiated health care claims every day.
Every therapy, CM or AM, is unsubstantiated until definitive trials are done by CM researchers.
> If you are >unfortunate enough to get cancer you will be urged to try a combination of >up to sixty different very dubious treatments, or spend thousands of dollars >at clinics that are never required to reveal their results .
Ah Peter, you know my position on this.
>Until persons WITHIN alternative medicine refuse to accept garbage (read >unverifiable anecdotal material), garbage is mostly all they will get.
For every effective therapy, unverifiable anecdotal evidence is all that is available until acceptable trials have been done. And as you have seen here before, only when the therapy is taken up by CM researchers can those trials be done. Some of that 'garbage' may be life saving therapies. You will never know if you reject it from the start. It's like panning for gold, you must examine and discard the dross to find the nuggets. You must examine those dubious therapies and reject those that prove ineffective.
Or is it your contention that there are no nuggets there at all?
As you know I have proposed a mechanism to do this.
"P Moran" <pjmo...@gil.com.au> writes: >In my opinion the court erred in assuming that there is nothing special >about medical claims. Nearly all countries have laws specific to health >products requiring those making major health claims to produce evidence for >them. The defendant in this case made major claims for his company's >remedies, but was not required to show that any of them did what was >claimed. The case was dismissed for legalistic reasons.
One of us is misreading this, Peter. Or are we quibbling over 'legalistic' Judge Haley J. Fromholz "The complexity necessarily involved in the development and interpretation of clinical tests and trials of drug products suggest strongly that questions of enforcement and regulation of drug advertising and labeling requirements should be brought before the agency possessing the expertise and experience most needed to resolve medical and scientific issues involved in drug regulation. That agency, obviously, is the U.S. FDA."
E. Jacquelyn J. Wilson, M.D. She also testified about the general manner in which homeopathic drugs are recognized and regulated by the FDA. Dr. Wilson further explained through her testimony that, according to FDA guidance in this area, the "indications" (i.e., drug effects) that must be placed on the label or package of any homeopathic drug may be taken from the Materia Medica. With respect to the products at issue in this case, Dr. Wilson is the only expert who investigated and evaluated any of the Defendants' products and their ingredients. Based on her review and general knowledge of the field, she offered her opinion that all of the ingredients in Defendants' products are listed in the Homeopathic Pharmacopeia of the United States, which is the federally approved reference guide for all officially recognized homeopathic drugs. She also testified that all of Defendants' labeling was consistent with the information respecting drug indications found in the Materia Medica. Based thereon, Dr. Wilson concluded, the Defendants' products complied with all applicable FDA laws and regulations.
The Judge Furthermore, the Court notes that the logical end-point of Plaintiff's burden-shifting argument would be to permit anyone with the requisite filing fee to walk into any court in any state in the Union and file a lawsuit against any business, casting the burden on that defendant to prove that it was not violating the law. Such an approach, this Court finds, would itself be unfair.
>Are alternative supporters all entirely happy that any old fraud or >charlatan can peddle any old snake oil to anyone? Many on this list >apparently assume that they can tell the "real thing", but there are a great >many less informed (?) people out there, and the sophistication of many >scams has moved far beyond what most people can sort out by themselves.
But this is not 'any old fraud'. The defendents were producing homeopathic 'drugs' to the standards laid down in the Materia Medica and with indications for use as specified in the Materia Medica. The Materia Medica is accepted by the FDA as the authority for this purpose.
P Moran wrote: > If you are claiming that every patient claiming to suffer from GWS, CFS, > MCS, Amalgam toxicity etc has a purely organic illness, you don't have just > Barrett to deal with. Most doctors observe, and a large slice of > alternative practice believes, and indeed a lot of research shows, that > there are prominent psychosomatic elements in many of those purported to be > suffering from these "diagnoses" (if a small few have ALS then it is ALS > they have, not "GWS").
Therefore, it is no surprise that an antidepressant such as Elavil would be a somewhat effective treatment for such disorders.
>Subject: Re: Barrett/NCAHF LOSE Again In California >From: "P Moran" pjmo...@gil.com.au >Date: 1/1/02 10:51 PM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <iGyY7.272$lt4.16...@ozemail.com.au>
>Jan wrote in message <20020101220347.01106.00001...@mb-mk.aol.com>...
>>>Why this "thing" about Stephen Barrett?
>>I have told you what numerous times. Did I mention ALL the REAL diseases he >>denies??
>If you are claiming that every patient claiming to suffer from GWS, CFS, >MCS, Amalgam toxicity etc has a purely organic illness, you don't have just >Barrett to deal with. Most doctors observe, and a large slice of >alternative practice believes, and indeed a lot of research shows, that >there are prominent psychosomatic elements in many of those purported to be >suffering from these "diagnoses" (if a small few have ALS then it is ALS >they have, not "GWS").
Ah yes *organized medicine*. Where are your references for a large slice of alt. practice who believe there are prominent psychosomatic elments?? Do *you* believe Peter that GWS, CFS and MCS are REAL diseases?
>And if you want have a piece of someone
Well no I don't want a piece of anyone.
>for being too eager to look for >psychological causes of illnesses, I wish you would go after those in the AM >camp
I dare say that *organized medicine* are the ones that use ye ole psychosomatic as an explanation for *anything* not in the little scientific recipe book.
Along with ye ole placebo as a explanation of *anything* successful coming from the alt. camp.
>who insist that even cancer is caused by bad thoughts, and that if >you don't get well it is your own fault.
Oh?
> I can tell you where to go.
Just can't resist,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I have been told that many times...............:-).
>>>Until persons WITHIN alternative medicine refuse to accept garbage (read >>>unverifiable anecdotal material), garbage is mostly all they will get.
>>>Peter >>This person WITHIN alternative medicine REFUSED to believe all the >*organized >>medicine and dentistry* GARBAGE,,,,,,,,,,,found my problem and am regaining >my >>health. Had I NOT done my own research and learned which is GARBAGE and >which >>is not,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I shudder to think where I would be right now.
>I am glad for you, except when you think you can prove something with your >own interpretation of your illnesses.
>Peter Moran
You are glad for me. But you just can't bring yourself to believe it. I have regained my health AFTER doing my own research and making a decision. I just happen to be a real live one on this ng. *I* am not the only one Peter. There are MANY others.MY concern is for those*just like me* who are STILL searching.
What good is it to search *within* conventional medicine,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if they are in DENIAL???
I repeat:
>>This person WITHIN alternative medicine REFUSED to believe all the >*organized >>medicine and dentistry* GARBAGE,,,,,,,,,,,found my problem and am regaining >my >>health. Had I NOT done my own research and learned which is GARBAGE and
GARBAGE and which is not,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I shudder to think where I would be right now.
The ADA lies when they say there are only 100 cases of allergies to mercury amalgams. The AMA believes the ADA.
I. DENTAL AMALGAM FILLINGS PAGE- documents high common mercury exposure levels from dental amalgam fillings; and common adverse health effects on people and dental staff; plus results of 60,000 clinical cases of significant improvements to chronic conditions after amalgam replacement and treatment- as followed and documented by doctors; plus environmental effects of amalgam that affect everyone.
(over 1500 peer-reviewed medical study or Gov't Agency references documenting mechanisms by which mercury from amalgam causes over 30
>"P Moran" <pjmo...@gil.com.au> writes: >>Why this "thing" about Stephen Barrett?
>Because he is a biased reporter and very selective in the evidence he posts.
>>A very wide range of people, >>including journalists and politicians in some countries are concerned about >>the explosion of "anything that I can get away with" claims regarding often >>patently useless health care products, especially when the seriously ill are >>being targeted. They would see this case as encouraging more of the same. >>Or, do you not see anything to be worried about?
>Not at all, homeopathy is well regulated by the FDA, etc. Barrett chose the >wrong target.
>>You have not answered my question as to whether you are content to be >>bombarded with new unsubstantiated health care claims every day.
>Every therapy, CM or AM, is unsubstantiated until definitive trials are done >by >CM researchers.
>> If you are >>unfortunate enough to get cancer you will be urged to try a combination of >>up to sixty different very dubious treatments, or spend thousands of dollars >>at clinics that are never required to reveal their results .
>Ah Peter, you know my position on this.
>>Until persons WITHIN alternative medicine refuse to accept garbage (read >>unverifiable anecdotal material), garbage is mostly all they will get.
>For every effective therapy, unverifiable anecdotal evidence is all that is >available until acceptable trials have been done. >And as you have seen here before, only when the therapy is taken up by CM >researchers can those trials be done. >Some of that 'garbage' may be life saving therapies. You will never know if >you reject it from the start. >It's like panning for gold, you must examine and discard the dross to find >the >nuggets. >You must examine those dubious therapies and reject those that prove >ineffective.
>Or is it your contention that there are no nuggets there at all?
>As you know I have proposed a mechanism to do this.
>Subject: Re: Barrett/NCAHF LOSE Again In California >From: Mark Thorson nos...@sonic.net >Date: 1/2/02 10:08 AM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <3C334CDE.4B6FD...@sonic.net>
>P Moran wrote:
>> If you are claiming that every patient claiming to suffer from GWS, CFS, >> MCS, Amalgam toxicity etc has a purely organic illness, you don't have just >> Barrett to deal with. Most doctors observe, and a large slice of >> alternative practice believes, and indeed a lot of research shows, that >> there are prominent psychosomatic elements in many of those purported to >be >> suffering from these "diagnoses" (if a small few have ALS then it is ALS >> they have, not "GWS").
>Therefore, it is no surprise that an antidepressant such as Elavil >would be a somewhat effective treatment for such disorders.
Excellent example of organized medicine talk. If one has amalgam toxicity and a high mercury level,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,just give um an antidpressant.