Re: Anthrax or Snail Pellets? (nooz)
la guerra es la paz
> Tests on the white powder contained in the envelope
> are likely to be completed on Thursday. It is already known to
> be a bacterium that is present in a range of products
> from snail pellets to anthrax. The embassy will remain closed.
I hate AIDS and I always like to put things like this in perspective
by asking "well what if it had been AIDS?" or "well what if instead
of killing a pedestrian while driving drunk he had given everyone
in the city AIDS?" While not condoning anthrax letters, I also have
to notice the hysteria surrounding anthrax (which kills almost
nobody), while HIV is almost promoted as being cool. The HIV+ are
allowed to roam the streets to infect others, and not only don't
health authorities do anything about it, the activist groups go out
of their way to make HIV seem like just another lifestyle option for
the differently-abled, not a deadly contagious plague like anthrax.
My opinion is that if protesters had delivered a barrel of live HIV
to the Indonesian embassy, that instead of evacuation, quarantine,
hazmat teams, etc. they would have had a parade to celebrate the
diversity of the differently-abled HIV+ community.
Oh, and just a little something to think about... 5 or 10 years ago
I recall hearing about postal bioterrorism involving some of the
radical animal rights activists. They were sending ordinary letter
envelopes with a razor blade strategically positioned inside so
when the receiver likely tears it open with his finger that he will
be cut and the blade is purported to be coated with HIV-infected
blood. I'm too buzzed to do a google right now, but I'm sure this
is what I remember having read and if you don't remember it I'm sure
it is no accident, as the media deeply buried the story. Infecting
someone with HIV is no crime at all...
PaulKing
is that all studies have shown it cannot be transmitted by any proven
means.
It is really hard to kill people with a myth unless they believe it.
If 'AIDS' was the real disease or syndrome caused by 'HIV', as it is
presented to the public, it would be in full scale production at Porton
Down and the U.S.
Bio. weapons research facilities.
It is not.
Myths can kill but not by dropping them from F19's.
GMCarter
<b...@minipax.gov> wrote:
snip...> I'm too buzzed to do a google right now, but I'm sure this
>is what I remember having read ...
That explains a lot of that dithering nonsense.
GMCarter
<aim...@aimultimedia.com> wrote:
>The reason why 'HIV' has never been considered as having weapons potential
>is that all studies have shown it cannot be transmitted by any proven
>means.
LOL. Nonsense. HIV is transmitted and has been demonstrated to be
transmissible through re-use of syringes and through vaginal and anal
sex and, to a lesser degree, oral sex.
Being that it is not an aerosol-borne infection, it makes it a
non-candidate for a bioterror weapon. Other agents would work far
more devastatingly, which is why there is concern over agents like
anthrax, smallpox, etc. Even Ebola or Marburg viruses aren't all that
good as biologic agents. Dissemination would have to be through say a
crop-duster or a "suicide" infector. Now there's a grisly thought.
Of course, the big issue with a very effective biologic agent as a
weapon of mass destruction is that it is as likely to return to the
perpetrators' home and wipe them out too.
George M. Carter
Iconoclaster
transmissible through re-use >of syringes and >through vaginal and anal
sex >and, to a lesser degree, oral sex.
LOL? Yes, I can understand you cannot present your own nonsense with a
straight face, Mr. Carter.
You are <sigh> again, after all these many years repeating all the
tiresome lies that keep the AID$ myth going. There is absolutely no proof
that HIV (if it exists at all, which has never been demonstrated) can be
transmitted by dirty syringes or any kind of sex.
You don't believe me? Then bring me the 'virus'. I'll take it (by
syringe, please!), provided you take the fine medications that are
supposed to be so beneficial for 'AIDS patients'.
Alternatively, you could also present to all of us the scientific papers
that provide proof for the transmission of an infectious agent causing
AIDS.
We will not believe it, just because you say so.
GMCarter
wrote:
>>LOL. Nonsense. HIV is transmitted and has been >demonstrated to be
>transmissible through re-use >of syringes and >through vaginal and anal
>sex >and, to a lesser degree, oral sex.
>
>LOL? Yes, I can understand you cannot present your own nonsense with a
>straight face, Mr. Carter.
Of course not. I'm a queer. My face ain't straight, silly anonymous
person!
But nonsense? By all means! What do you consider nonsense?
>You are <sigh> again, after all these many years repeating all the
>tiresome lies that keep the AID$ myth going. There is absolutely no proof
>that HIV (if it exists at all, which has never been demonstrated) can be
>transmitted by dirty syringes or any kind of sex.
There is a great DEAL of evidence that HIV exists and is spread by
these vectors.
>You don't believe me?
Not in the slightest!
>Then bring me the 'virus'. I'll take it (by
>syringe, please!), provided you take the fine medications that are
>supposed to be so beneficial for 'AIDS patients'.
Terrific! Please provide your name and address.
>Alternatively, you could also present to all of us the scientific papers
>that provide proof for the transmission of an infectious agent causing
>AIDS.
>We will not believe it, just because you say so.
Those papers have been presented repeatedly insofar as isolation of
HIV as well as epidemological data.
LOL! Indeed, you can't seem to present your own bullshit and sign your
own name!
George M. Carter
Iconoclaster
Actually, I am not all that anonymous. I am known as "Iconoclaster" on a
Dutch AIDS forum, but even a small effort would easily identify me as none
other than Dr. Wilhelm Godschalk. Besides, my e-mail address is clearly
visible next to my nickname.
I have a habit of going into various discussion groups, pick out the
dumbest comment I can find, and rip it apart. After that, I wipe my blade
clean and go on to the next sucker. And this time, your slavish repeating
of all the lies you've been told by the people who make all the money off
them made you an easy target.
All those papers reporting isolation of HIV, and epidemiological data...
are you hiding them under your mattress? I know how to do a thorough
library search, but they simply are not there. Even Luc Montagnier, the
first bloke who was supposed to have discovered (actually invented) HIV,
later admitted that he had not found a single virus particle. All that was
isolated was some cellular debris, showing an enzymatic activity (reverse
transcriptase) that can be found in any human cell. And the epidemic data?
Nothing is easier than falsifying statistical numbers. And they have done
that extensively by changing the definition of 'AIDS', and by
extrapolating small samples to long-term mortality expectations. If these
epidemiological data were correct, then most of us would be dead now,
after 21 years of fear mongering.
So feel free to bring on your beloved 'HIV' My immune system can take on
anything. Dr. Robert Willner injected himself on Spanish TV with the
blood of a seropositive man. Nothing bad happened. After that, Dr.
Willner repeated this stunt another six times. Now I am not that
generous; I expect a counter-effort from the challenger. He should take
the HAART medicine. And as a token of my good intentions, I shall attend
his funeral. (I won't promise, though, I won't say "I told you so").
Just between the two of us: Are you really gay? Then you're one of the
victims of this whole scam. Let's face it: You've been had. This whole
swindle began with a homophobic scoundrel named Michael Gottlieb, who had
five (!) gay patients (including one by telephone and one who was already
dead), and fabricated a whole epidemic. And what started as a simple
gay-bashing excercise, progressed to a massive money-grabbing operation by
the pharmaceutical companies. But alas, most of the victims will never
learn.
GMCarter
wrote:
>Terrific, Mr. Carter Challenge accepted!
>Actually, I am not all that anonymous. I am known as "Iconoclaster" on a
>Dutch AIDS forum, but even a small effort would easily identify me as none
>other than Dr. Wilhelm Godschalk. Besides, my e-mail address is clearly
>visible next to my nickname.
Really? LOL. So you say.
>I have a habit of going into various discussion groups, pick out the
>dumbest comment I can find, and rip it apart. After that, I wipe my blade
>clean and go on to the next sucker.
Nah, you're more like W. You make the dumbest comment imaginable,
claim the white is green and womble off into the night.
>And this time, your slavish repeating
>of all the lies you've been told by the people who make all the money off
>them made you an easy target.
LOL. Fire away, dearie....
>All those papers reporting isolation of HIV, and epidemiological data...
>are you hiding them under your mattress?
Nope. They do fill a number of file drawers around here....
>I know how to do a thorough
>library search, but they simply are not there.
Really? I suspect it has more to do with your inability to comprehend
what you read?
>Even Luc Montagnier, the
>first bloke who was supposed to have discovered (actually invented) HIV,
>later admitted that he had not found a single virus particle.
An amazing claim! I'm sure well cited.
>All that was
>isolated was some cellular debris, showing an enzymatic activity (reverse
>transcriptase) that can be found in any human cell.
LOL...nonsense. Full length transcripts of the HIV genome have been
available for many years. You're telling me nef, vif, vpr, rev,
tat--these are all endogenous proteins? p24 and gp160?
>And the epidemic data?
Yes?
> Nothing is easier than falsifying statistical numbers.
I see. So people are dying with CD4 counts below 50 because you forgot
to wear your aluminum hat one day?
>And they have done
>that extensively by changing the definition of 'AIDS', and by
>extrapolating small samples to long-term mortality expectations.
Nonsense. The definition of AIDS merely includes the types of
infections likely to arise when, the central element of the
definition, CD4+ T lymphocyte numbers plunge toward zero in the
peripheral blood.
>If these
>epidemiological data were correct, then most of us would be dead now,
>after 21 years of fear mongering.
The species ACTUALLY went extinct back in 1176 due to lethal
infectious diseases but people persist in believing they're still
here, right?
>So feel free to bring on your beloved 'HIV' My immune system can take on
>anything. Dr. Robert Willner injected himself on Spanish TV with the
>blood of a seropositive man. Nothing bad happened.
He died of a heart attack.
>After that, Dr.
>Willner repeated this stunt another six times. Now I am not that
>generous; I expect a counter-effort from the challenger.
Ah...already with the goal-post shifting. Lying coward.
>He should take
>the HAART medicine. And as a token of my good intentions, I shall attend
>his funeral. (I won't promise, though, I won't say "I told you so").
>Just between the two of us: Are you really gay? Then you're one of the
>victims of this whole scam. Let's face it: You've been had. This whole
>swindle began with a homophobic scoundrel named Michael Gottlieb, who had
>five (!) gay patients (including one by telephone and one who was already
>dead), and fabricated a whole epidemic. And what started as a simple
>gay-bashing excercise, progressed to a massive money-grabbing operation by
>the pharmaceutical companies. But alas, most of the victims will never
>learn.
Yep. I'm gay. And I lost a LOT of friends before any antivirals were
available. Gay ones, bi ones, straight ones. People that used
recreational drugs, people that never touched them.
My dear, you're full of shit.
George M. Carter
Ash
news:6cOne.14635$w21....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Vang-wang-a-boogpoontang" <jellyo...@hotmail.com> wrote...
>> Tests on the white powder contained in the envelope
>> are likely to be completed on Thursday. It is already known to
>> be a bacterium that is present in a range of products
>> from snail pellets to anthrax. The embassy will remain closed.
>
> I hate AIDS and I always like to put things like this in perspective
> by asking "well what if it had been AIDS?" or "well what if instead
> of killing a pedestrian while driving drunk he had given everyone
> in the city AIDS?" While not condoning anthrax letters, I also have
> to notice the hysteria surrounding anthrax (which kills almost
> nobody), while HIV is almost promoted as being cool. The HIV+ are
> allowed to roam the streets to infect others, and not only don't
> health authorities do anything about it, the activist groups go out
> of their way to make HIV seem like just another lifestyle option for
> the differently-abled, not a deadly contagious plague like anthrax.
>
what? since when is HIV cool? i dont know anyone who thinks its cool? have
you met anyone who thinks its cool?
and since when is it a lifestyle 'option'. do all the women and children in
africa opt for aids?
the health authorities monitor aids very closely in australia... im saddened
that they dont wherever your from!
> My opinion is that if protesters had delivered a barrel of live HIV
> to the Indonesian embassy, that instead of evacuation, quarantine,
> hazmat teams, etc. they would have had a parade to celebrate the
> diversity of the differently-abled HIV+ community.
you must be mad. this would not happen.
>
> Oh, and just a little something to think about... 5 or 10 years ago
> I recall hearing about postal bioterrorism involving some of the
> radical animal rights activists. They were sending ordinary letter
> envelopes with a razor blade strategically positioned inside so
> when the receiver likely tears it open with his finger that he will
> be cut and the blade is purported to be coated with HIV-infected
> blood. I'm too buzzed to do a google right now, but I'm sure this
> is what I remember having read and if you don't remember it I'm sure
> it is no accident, as the media deeply buried the story. Infecting
> someone with HIV is no crime at all...
it is a crime. as for the rest of this paragraph... whats your point?
Ash
news:p8c0a11p44gucuu6a...@4ax.com...
yes please do get some sleep. we are quite worried about you.
la libertad es la esclavitud
> what? since when is HIV cool? i dont know anyone who thinks its cool? have
> you met anyone who thinks its cool?
> and since when is it a lifestyle 'option'. do all the women and children in
> africa opt for aids?
> the health authorities monitor aids very closely in australia... im saddened
> that they dont wherever your from!
I'm in the USA and my brother has AIDS. Since then, all I really have
heard (or at least chosen to remember) is if not "cool," HIV really
isn't so terrible. It is not contagious (or not easily transmissable),
at least that's what the new infectees preech at you when you resist
shaking their hand (they all are such fuckin' experts on HIV contagion
when they all managed to catch it). And now there all those fabulous
new drug cocktail treatments that keep infectees so healthy that HIV
becomes nothing more than an inconvenience, perhaps no worse that a
cold sore (and no worse to transmit). And I can tell you from personal
observation that they DO continue to engage in sex and infect others
after beginning drug treatment. And no, there is absolutely NO effort
by U.S. federal, state, or local health authorities to contain the
epidemic - the issue is a political radioactive potato that nobody will
touch and the result is you have healthy-looking HIV patients going
around and infecting unsuspecting partners for 10 or 20 or more years,
so the new infection rate (plus the new infection/already-drug-resistant)
infection rate is beginning to increase dramatically (exponentially, I
suspect). I can't imagine ultraradlib Australia would do anything
differently. Like us, instead of defining HIV/AIDS as a deadly contagious
plague, you might define it as a "differently-abled lifestyle option" (or
whatever catchphrase the left uses now) where instead of quarantine the
special differently-abled HIV community now enjoys a plethora of civil
rights plus guaranteed free medical treatment for the rest of their
unnaturally-extended lives).
>> My opinion is that if protesters had delivered a barrel of live HIV
>> to the Indonesian embassy, that instead of evacuation, quarantine,
>> hazmat teams, etc. they would have had a parade to celebrate the
>> diversity of the differently-abled HIV+ community.
>
> you must be mad. this would not happen.
I was being a bit sarcastic, the parade probably wouldn't happen but
neither would the hazmat swat team. To whoever pointed out that
HIV is less contagious than anthrax, I respond by saying HIV infects
so many more people than anthrax each year (thus a bigger health
problem), and anyway I could have added that the guy was filling
syringes from the barrel of AIDS and going around stabbing people
with them and it still likely wouldn't constitute a crime (or at
least no crime authorities would be willing to enforce).
>> Oh, and just a little something to think about... 5 or 10 years ago
>> I recall hearing about postal bioterrorism involving some of the
>> radical animal rights activists. They were sending ordinary letter
>> envelopes with a razor blade strategically positioned inside so
>> when the receiver likely tears it open with his finger that he will
>> be cut and the blade is purported to be coated with HIV-infected
>> blood. I'm too buzzed to do a google right now, but I'm sure this
>> is what I remember having read and if you don't remember it I'm sure
>> it is no accident, as the media deeply buried the story. Infecting
>> someone with HIV is no crime at all...
>
> it is a crime. as for the rest of this paragraph... whats your point?
Read my last sentence in my last paragraph above. It is a crime but
not one authorities are willing to enforce. Whoever infected my
brother infected thousands of others before and after, and my brother
infected thousands before and after testing HIV+. No, I can't prove
it, it just is very probable given my observation of his and his
trashy friends' sexual activities (wild meth orgies etc.). In all my
years living in Nevada I only saw its law against "deliberate"
transmission of HIV to an "unconsenting" partner enforced only ONCE,
and that was a very high-profile case where the 16yo son of popular
conspiracy/ufo/etc. radio talk-show host Art Bell was anally raped by
an adult man who was HIV+ (and on HIV drugs so it was definitely
deliberate). That's it, that was the single case that I remember
hearing, and while every year social services whined for more money
in the HIV budget, they never devoted a penny to tracking down those
who were causing such a costly rise in new HIV infections. I can
safely say that in Clark County, Nevada, USA (Las Vegas and surrounding
metro area), that almost ALL new HIV infections can be directly traced
back to perhaps half a dozen gay bars - the epidemic could be stopped
almost overnight if authorities raided those half dozen bars, forcibly
tested all patrons, and quarantined those testing positive. It may
sound harsh, but that is how you stop the epidemic and if it were
anything less politically-correct like anthrax or smallpox then you
would see authorities put a stop to it immediately whatever it takes
(or maybe because I have smallpox I am now protected by the Americans
with Disabilities Act (ADA) and have a civil right to go around giving
smallpox to everyone around me).
Dave Garrett
b...@miniprod.gov says...
> In all my
> years living in Nevada I only saw its law against "deliberate"
> transmission of HIV to an "unconsenting" partner enforced only ONCE,
> and that was a very high-profile case where the 16yo son of popular
> conspiracy/ufo/etc. radio talk-show host Art Bell was anally raped by
> an adult man who was HIV+ (and on HIV drugs so it was definitely
> deliberate).
Sure, that's the official story, but we know better. He was really
abducted by aliens and subjected to the nameless terrors of the Anal
Probe.
Dave
la libertad es la esclavitud
> Sure, that's the official story, but we know better. He was really
> abducted by aliens and subjected to the nameless terrors of the Anal
> Probe.
Kids: "Chef, what's an anal probe?"
Chef: "That's when they stick a big metal
hoopajoob up your butt!"
-- South Park; "Cartman Gets an Anal Probe"
Iconoclaster
of those papers out of your drawers, scan it and post it? Just posting a
link is OK too, of course. The whole world is anxious to see at long last
a paper describing the isolation of HIV.
Oh... And did I forget to cite Montagnier? How negligent of me. (Just a
moment; let me check my "Get Carter" file):
PARIS--Luc Montagnier, whose group here at the Pasteur Institute first
isolated HIV in 1983, surprised the world of AIDS research last week by
revealing ...
www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/276/5313/672
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/dtinterviewlm.htm
http://free-news.org/montag01.htm
http://aids-info.net/micha/hiv/aids/montagnier.htm
Will this do? All Montagnier had was some reverse transcriptase activity,
banding at 1.16 g/ml. But of course he didn't know yet that all host
cells have that.
What else do I see?
>"Full length transcripts of the HIV genome have >been available for many
years."
Eh... full length transcripts of WHAT? In those lab cultures you can grow
just any kind of genetic material, so it's anybody's guess what it is.
Those sequences vary all over the map, anyway.
Now if we just had the virus itself, to compare it with...
And yes, I am telling you that nef, vif, vpr, rev,
tat, p24, and gp160 are all endogenous proteins, and they react with
autoimmune antibodies. So much for those wonderful specific "tests for
HIV".
Just in case you'll hint again that I don't cite anybody:
Bermas BL, Petri M, Bergofsky JA, Walsman A, Shearer GM, Mozes E. Binding
of Glycoprotein 120 and Peptides from the HIV-1 Envelope by Autoantibodies
in Mice with Experimentally Induced Systemic Lupus Erythematosus and in
Patients with the Disease. AIDS Res. Human Retroviruses 10:1071-1077
(1994).
Tan EM: Autoantibodies to nuclear antigens (ANA): Their immunology and
medicine. Adv. Immunol. 1982; 33:167-240.
Tan EM: Antinuclear antibodies: Diagnostic markers for autoimmune diseases
and probes for cell biology. Adv. Immunol. 1989; 44:93-151.
Abu-Shakra A, Shoenfeld. Chronic infections and autoimmunity. Immunol.
Ser. 1991; 55:285-313.
Matsiota P, Chamaret S, Montagnier L. Avrameas S. Detection of natural
autoantibodies in the serum of anti-HIV-positive individuals. Ann. Inst.
Pasteur/Immunol 1987; 138:223-233.
Calabrese LH. Autoimmune manifestations of human immune deficiency virus
(HIV) infection. Clinics Lab. Med. 1988; 8:269-279.
Papadopulos-Eleopulos E, Turner VF, Papadimitriou JM. Is a positive
Western blot proof of HIV infection? Bio/Technol. 1993; 11:696-707.
Krieg AM, Steinberg AD: Retroviruses and autoimmunity. J. Autoimmunity
1990; 3:137-166.
Levy JA: The Retroviridae Vol 4 (Ed0 in the Viruses: Series Eds
Fraenkel-Conrat H and Wagner RR. New York Plenum 1995.
Roitt OI, Brostoff J, Male D: Immunology, 4th ed. London: Mosby 1996.
Rozendaal L, Pals ST, Gleichmann E, Melief CJM. Persistence of
allospecific helper T cells is required for maintaining autoantibody
formation in lupus-like graft-versus-host disease. Clin. exp. Immunol.
1990; 82:527-532.
Hässig A, Liang Wen-Xi, Stampfli K. Ueberlegungen zur Pathogenese und
Prävention von AIDS. Schweiz.Zschr.GanzheitsMed 1995; Nr. 6:298-306.
Schaffner A, Rager-Zismann B: Virus-induced autoimmunity, Rev. Infect.
Dis. 1990; 12:204-222.
Clifford BD, Donahue D, Smith L et al. High prevalence of serological
markers of autoimmunity in patient with chronic hepatitis. Hepatol. 1995;
21:613-619.
Goldman M, Druelt P, Gleichmann E. TH-2 cells in systemic autoimmunity:
insights from allogeneic diseases and chemically induced autoimmunity.
Immunol. Today 1991; 12:223-227.
Venables P, Brookes S. Retroviruses: Potential aetiological agents in
autoimmune rheumatic disease. Brit. J. Rheumatol. 1992; 31:841-846.
Hässig A, Liang WX, Stampfli K. Stress-induced suppression of the cellular
immune reactions. Med. Hypothes. 1995; im Druck.
Lehner CF: Zellteilungen in mehrzelligen Organismen. Wie viele, wann und
wo? Neue Zürcher Zeitung, 15 November 1995; Nr. 266:65.
Clerici M, shearer GM. Is HIV associated with a Th-1 to a Th-2 switch?
Immunol. Today 1993; 14:107-110.
Pinter A, Honnen WJ, Tilley SA et al. Oligomeric structure of gp41, the
transmembrane protein of human immunodeficiency virus type 1. J. Virol.
1989; 63:2674-2679.
But of course you have these papers already in your drawers. They show
clearly that most of that wasted research money should have been given to
the immunologists, not to virologist with their ridiculous quest for
cancer- and AIDS viruses.
>"The definition of AIDS merely includes the types >of infections likely
to arise when, the central >element of the definition, CD4+ T lymphocyte
>numbers plunge toward zero in the peripheral >blood."
Well, that's a smart virus! After it has done its number on the CD4+
T-cells, it dictates to the human body exactly which infectious diseases
it can get. No common cold, no flu, no typhus or dysenteria. Only one or
more items on the list of 29 AIDS indicator diseases. Even an "infection"
such as cervical cancer. Oh, give me a break!
Oh yes, Dr. Willner died of a heart attack, some time after he had taken
on all comers with their "infected blood". Pity the CDC didn't see his
death coming, otherwise they would have added heart attacks to the list of
AIDS diseases. Talk about goal post moving... At least I told you right
off the bat that I would only take the "virus" if you would take the HAART
drugs.
I'm sorry about the friends you lost. But didn't we all? Mortality is a
built-in feature of life, and there are many different causes of death.
I am not gay myself, but I do have gay friends. And none of them are as
gullible as you are. Scientific papers on AIDS/HIV read like fairy tales
without anybody living happily ever after. And you believe all THAT crap?
You even help spread the myth for the people who are making all the
money, as a good flunky should. See what they will do for you when you
need back-up.
fungus
> "Ash" <n...@email.com> writes:
>
>>what? since when is HIV cool? i dont know anyone who thinks its cool?
> that has this attitude. Grope in the news for "gift givers", I think
> the term is...
>
And "Bug Chasers" are the ones who want to
have AIDS.
--
fungus
GMCarter
wrote:
>OK Mr. Carter <sigh>, not under your mattress. But could you then pull one
>of those papers out of your drawers, scan it and post it? Just posting a
>link is OK too, of course. The whole world is anxious to see at long last
>a paper describing the isolation of HIV.
How about the technique proposed by denialists as the so-called "gold
standard" for isolation? That's a rich one. They quote a paper from
the 70s (as if the world hasn't changed any)....and one of the AUTHORS
of that paper is Francoise Barre-Sinoussi. A primary discoverer of
HIV-1.
HIV exists. Even your denialist buddy Duesberg recognizes that.
>Oh... And did I forget to cite Montagnier? How negligent of me. (Just a
>moment; let me check my "Get Carter" file):
Go for it.
>PARIS--Luc Montagnier, whose group here at the Pasteur Institute first
>isolated HIV in 1983, surprised the world of AIDS research last week by
>revealing ...
>www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/276/5313/672
tbe rest of the above sentence is "...hat he intends to team up with
an American entrepreneur to create a new research institute in cell
and molecular biology--focusing principally on AIDS."
Are you trying to say Luc doesn't think HIV exists??
>Will this do? All Montagnier had was some reverse transcriptase activity,
>banding at 1.16 g/ml. But of course he didn't know yet that all host
>cells have that.
Wow. You're STILL arguing that bullshit? Have you seen the BMJ debates
where the "Perth group" has been utterly discredited and sent packing,
tails between their foolish legs?
>What else do I see?
>>"Full length transcripts of the HIV genome have >been available for many
>years."
>Eh... full length transcripts of WHAT? In those lab cultures you can grow
>just any kind of genetic material, so it's anybody's guess what it is.
Really? Just how does that happen? Most fascinatng! I look forward to
being edified.
>Those sequences vary all over the map, anyway.
Really? In what way? They're not just sequences--they encode proteins
with pretty well-characterized activity!
>Now if we just had the virus itself, to compare it with...
We do. Even Duesberg recognizes that!
>And yes, I am telling you that nef, vif, vpr, rev,
>tat, p24, and gp160 are all endogenous proteins, and they react with
>autoimmune antibodies. So much for those wonderful specific "tests for
>HIV".
Amazing!
>Just in case you'll hint again that I don't cite anybody:
>
>Bermas BL, Petri M, Bergofsky JA, Walsman A, Shearer GM, Mozes E. Binding
>of Glycoprotein 120 and Peptides from the HIV-1 Envelope by Autoantibodies
>in Mice with Experimentally Induced Systemic Lupus Erythematosus and in
>Patients with the Disease. AIDS Res. Human Retroviruses 10:1071-1077
>(1994).
Yes? The article does not dispute the existence of HIV. To the
contrary, it recognizes that gp120 exists as part and parcel of HIV.
>Tan EM: Autoantibodies to nuclear antigens (ANA): Their immunology and
>medicine. Adv. Immunol. 1982; 33:167-240.
>
>Tan EM: Antinuclear antibodies: Diagnostic markers for autoimmune diseases
>and probes for cell biology. Adv. Immunol. 1989; 44:93-151.
>
>Abu-Shakra A, Shoenfeld. Chronic infections and autoimmunity. Immunol.
>Ser. 1991; 55:285-313.
>
>Matsiota P, Chamaret S, Montagnier L. Avrameas S. Detection of natural
>autoantibodies in the serum of anti-HIV-positive individuals. Ann. Inst.
>Pasteur/Immunol 1987; 138:223-233.
>
>Calabrese LH. Autoimmune manifestations of human immune deficiency virus
>(HIV) infection. Clinics Lab. Med. 1988; 8:269-279.
The above articles are interesting and I read them back then. They
underscore that there are autoimmune problems in a portion of the HIV+
population. This is true of people infected with Hepatitis C.
It certainly doesn't mean these viruses don't exist. But that certain
epitopes may trigger autoimmune responses.
And the clinical manifestations of autoimmunity are also well
characterized. They don't arise when HIV isn't there.
>Papadopulos-Eleopulos E, Turner VF, Papadimitriou JM. Is a positive
>Western blot proof of HIV infection? Bio/Technol. 1993; 11:696-707.
Ah--the idiot from the Perth group. Again--this is the group that has
long since been discredited.
snip....
>
>But of course you have these papers already in your drawers. They show
>clearly that most of that wasted research money should have been given to
>the immunologists, not to virologist with their ridiculous quest for
>cancer- and AIDS viruses.
Oh, hey, I agree that more resources for immunology are an excellent
idea.
>>"The definition of AIDS merely includes the types >of infections likely
>to arise when, the central >element of the definition, CD4+ T lymphocyte
>>numbers plunge toward zero in the peripheral >blood."
>
>Well, that's a smart virus! After it has done its number on the CD4+
>T-cells, it dictates to the human body exactly which infectious diseases
>it can get.
LOL. Apparently your love for immunologists has not extended to an
even cursory understanding of immunology.
>No common cold, no flu, no typhus or dysenteria. Only one or
>more items on the list of 29 AIDS indicator diseases. Even an "infection"
>such as cervical cancer. Oh, give me a break!
How about some HIV-infected blood instead?
Then you'll learn from the inside out what Immunology is all about!
>Oh yes, Dr. Willner died of a heart attack, some time after he had taken
>on all comers with their "infected blood".
LOL. No, he didn't even do that. From what iI hear, he barely
scratched his skin with one syringe and ran away from other
challenges.
>Pity the CDC didn't see his
>death coming, otherwise they would have added heart attacks to the list of
>AIDS diseases. Talk about goal post moving... At least I told you right
>off the bat that I would only take the "virus" if you would take the HAART
>drugs.
No--you agreed to the challenge and then reneged. I know what ARV
does. I will take the drugs if I have HIV and my CD4 count drops below
350.
>I'm sorry about the friends you lost. But didn't we all? Mortality is a
>built-in feature of life, and there are many different causes of death.
Yep. But mortality doesn't just happen to people in their 20s and 30s
and 40s. Nor does CMV reitnitis, fulminant Kaposi's sarcoma or
Pneumocystis jirovecii.
>I am not gay myself, but I do have gay friends. And none of them are as
>gullible as you are.
Intersting and irrelevant anecdote. I think you're lying.
>Scientific papers on AIDS/HIV read like fairy tales
>without anybody living happily ever after. And you believe all THAT crap?
Ah--you seem to believe all that crap. You posted a long list of
citations (that had nothing to do with your contention that HIV hasn't
been isolated, by and large).
> You even help spread the myth for the people who are making all the
>money, as a good flunky should. See what they will do for you when you
>need back-up.
HIV is not a myth. AIDS is not a myth. Antivirals do work--with
serious side effects among many users.
That doesn't justify the pharmaceutical industry's outrageous and
murderous--nay, positively genocidal--greed in denying access to
generic medications, in charging outrageous sums for their drugs and
devices and diagnostics.
George M. Carter
Gary Stein
wonder how you plan on showing that they are deadly if George were to take
them?
As to your claim that the HIV/AIDS epi data is simply a matter of falsified
numbers could you explain how it is that such a fraud was coordinated on a
world wide scale? I would love to hear you explain how the national health
services of just about every nation on the planet that has one were all
recruited into your vast conspiracy to falsify the data regarding HIV and
AIDS? Who is the ring leader and what did that person or agency use as
leverage to force the rest of worlds medical/epidemiological communities
(many from countries that have never cooperated at any level what so ever)
to take part in your posited conspiracy?
Gary Stein
"Iconoclaster" <wg...@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:795604441415b4e1...@localhost.talkabouthealthnetwork.com...
Iconoclaster
you DON'T have a paper demonstrating the isolation of HIV?
Yes, Peter Duesberg believes HIV exists. Small wonder: His whole career
is based on retroviruses.
And of course Luc Montagnier also believes in it; it made him famous.
Yet, he admitted in an interview that he had not really isolated a virus,
only what he saw as a marker for a virus.
I won't go as far as Stefan Lanka, who doesn't believe in the existence of
any retrovirus. I'm even willing to change my mind and start believing
HIV exists, if anybody finally proves it. But after 21 years, fat
chance!
I don't think you can explain the ridiculous idea that someone with a
depressed CD4+ T-cell level becomes vulnerable only to a set of 29 disease
(of which several are not even infectious), by just saying I don't even
have a cursory understanding of immunology. I even cited some
immunological papers, to educate you. But it was a wasted effort, I see.
Yes, I think more resources for the immunologists are in order, but
contingent upon scrapping the useless spending on virus research related
to cancer and AIDS.
"They underscore that there are autoimmune problems in a portion of the
HIV+ population. This is true of people infected with Hepatitis C. "
Oh yes, things look different when you put them upside down. Could it be
that people with autoimmune problems happen to react positive on the tests
that don't test for HIV, but just for certain antibodies? Lupus patients
are a shining example.
And by the way (this will come as a shock): Hepatitis C doesn't exist
either. But of course you swallowed that also, line, hook, and sinker.
Any little stinkin' piece of genetic material can be made to reproduce.
I'm sure you are familiar with the PCR technique.
"They're not just sequences--they encode proteins
with pretty well-characterized activity!"
You don't say! In the early days of this tinkering (early sixties), some
over-ambitious (in a Gallo sort of way) colleagues of mine were studying
protein biosynthesis. They used polynucleotides as messengers. They were
very excited when they found protein-like material in their soup. I was
very underwhelmed by their results and predicted they would get similar
results by using an old shoe as a messenger. It's a few years later now,
and I'm still not impressed. The 'old shoe theory' still stands. I guess
the world has not really changed since 1970.
I can't imagine how you could possibly get the idea that I'm reneging on
my challenge. In my first post on this thread I wrote clearly:
"You don't believe me? Then bring me the 'virus'. I'll take it (by
syringe, please!), provided you take the fine medications that are
supposed to be so beneficial for 'AIDS patients'."
But hey, what can I expect? You also call me a liar when I tell you I
have gay friends who are a lot smarter than you are, by not believing
every myth that comes their way. They know this whole so-called 'AIDS
epidemic' was a thinly disguised attack on the gay community, before it
became the cash cow for Big Pharma. But if you want to contribute to your
own demise, I am unable to stop you.
David Canzi -- non-mailable
Iconoclaster <wg...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>So feel free to bring on your beloved 'HIV' My immune system can take on
>anything. Dr. Robert Willner injected himself on Spanish TV with the
>blood of a seropositive man. Nothing bad happened.
What type of bad thing do you think could have happened?
>After that, Dr.
>Willner repeated this stunt another six times.
What Dr. Willner did was to jab a needle very quickly in and out of
the hand of an HIV+ man, then jab the needle into himself. In the
brief instant that the needle was in the hand of the HIV+ "donor",
very little blood would seep out of the capillaries in the tissues
around the needle. Then, as the needle penetrated Willner's hand,
much of that infected blood would get wiped off the needle's surface
onto the surface of Willner's skin. After the needle was pulled out,
the slight bleeding of Willner's wound would rinse out much of whatever
infected blood wss in there.
When people hear you describe what Willner did as an "injection",
this kind of nanoliter-level screwing around is not what they think
you mean. What they think you mean is that the syringe actually gets
used, rather than just being along for the ride. Calling Willner's
stunt an "injection" is misleading.
If Willner was as confident of his beliefs as he pretended to be,
he would have been willing to take 5cc of HIV+ blood.
--
David Canzi
GMCarter
wrote:
>Mr. Carter, are you trying to postpone the moment you'll have to confess
>you DON'T have a paper demonstrating the isolation of HIV?
Nope.
>Yes, Peter Duesberg believes HIV exists. Small wonder: His whole career
>is based on retroviruses.
Yep. We agree at least that he is wrong.
>And of course Luc Montagnier also believes in it; it made him famous.
>Yet, he admitted in an interview that he had not really isolated a virus,
>only what he saw as a marker for a virus.
Depends on what you mean by isolation. By reasonable standards and
among virologists of all stripes, HIV has been isolated.
>I won't go as far as Stefan Lanka, who doesn't believe in the existence of
>any retrovirus.
Well, bravo! You're not that stupid. FIV, EIAV, CAEV...
>I'm even willing to change my mind and start believing
>HIV exists, if anybody finally proves it. But after 21 years, fat
>chance!
It exists.
>I don't think you can explain the ridiculous idea that someone with a
>depressed CD4+ T-cell level becomes vulnerable only to a set of 29 disease
>(of which several are not even infectious), by just saying I don't even
>have a cursory understanding of immunology. I even cited some
>immunological papers, to educate you.
A list of citations hardly means you understand anything that you
cited.
Indeed, why would someone develop CMV retinitis? Or PML? Or fulminant
forms of Kaposi's sarcoma? Or pneumocystis jirovecii?
>But it was a wasted effort, I see.
Yes. So far, you've said nothing.
>Yes, I think more resources for the immunologists are in order, but
>contingent upon scrapping the useless spending on virus research related
>to cancer and AIDS.
Lovely. So where would you spend it? What causes AIDS?
I'd written:
>"They underscore that there are autoimmune problems in a portion of the
>HIV+ population. This is true of people infected with Hepatitis C. "
You go on...
>Oh yes, things look different when you put them upside down. Could it be
>that people with autoimmune problems happen to react positive on the tests
>that don't test for HIV, but just for certain antibodies? Lupus patients
>are a shining example.
Many people DON'T have autoimmune disease show up HIV+ and Hep C+.
>And by the way (this will come as a shock): Hepatitis C doesn't exist
>either. But of course you swallowed that also, line, hook, and sinker.
LOL...get out the aluminum hats, kids!
>Any little stinkin' piece of genetic material can be made to reproduce.
>I'm sure you are familiar with the PCR technique.
And NASBA, bDNA....
I'd written:
>"They're not just sequences--they encode proteins
>with pretty well-characterized activity!"
You write:
>You don't say!
I do say.
>In the early days of this tinkering (early sixties),
It's 2005, dearie.
>some
>over-ambitious (in a Gallo sort of way) colleagues of mine were studying
>protein biosynthesis. They used polynucleotides as messengers. They were
>very excited when they found protein-like material in their soup. I was
>very underwhelmed by their results and predicted they would get similar
>results by using an old shoe as a messenger.
My! Did they try your experiment?
>It's a few years later now,
>and I'm still not impressed. The 'old shoe theory' still stands. I guess
>the world has not really changed since 1970.
Apparently not in your world. Sad, really.
>I can't imagine how you could possibly get the idea that I'm reneging on
>my challenge. In my first post on this thread I wrote clearly:
>"You don't believe me? Then bring me the 'virus'. I'll take it (by
>syringe, please!), provided you take the fine medications that are
>supposed to be so beneficial for 'AIDS patients'."
Perhaps you did. I don't really give a shit.
>But hey, what can I expect? You also call me a liar when I tell you I
>have gay friends who are a lot smarter than you are, by not believing
>every myth that comes their way.
Who? Like David Pasquarelli?
Oh. Wait. He died of AIDS, buying your brand of delusion.
>They know this whole so-called 'AIDS
>epidemic' was a thinly disguised attack on the gay community, before it
>became the cash cow for Big Pharma. But if you want to contribute to your
>own demise, I am unable to stop you.
We all die. So I look forward to hearing about your experiment with
getting infected.
George M. Carter
red...@alltel.net
>On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 19:51:19 -0400, "Iconoclaster" <wg...@xs4all.nl>
>wrote:
>
>>Mr. Carter, are you trying to postpone the moment you'll have to confess
>>you DON'T have a paper demonstrating the isolation of HIV?
>
>Nope.
Postponed.
red...@alltel.net
dmc...@remulak.ads.uwaterloo.ca (David Canzi -- non-mailable) wrote:
>In article <795604441415b4e1...@localhost.talkabouthealthnetwork.com>,
>Iconoclaster <wg...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>So feel free to bring on your beloved 'HIV' My immune system can take on
>>anything. Dr. Robert Willner injected himself on Spanish TV with the
>>blood of a seropositive man. Nothing bad happened.
>
>What type of bad thing do you think could have happened?
>
>>After that, Dr.
>>Willner repeated this stunt another six times.
>
>What Dr. Willner did was to jab a needle very quickly in and out of
>the hand of an HIV+ man, then jab the needle into himself.
Forget Wilner.
Remember the tens of thousands of hemophiliacs who regularly
injected HIV-infected clotting factor and didn't get infected.
Fact: 100% of the clotting factor in the early 1980s was
contaminated with HIV, yet around 50% of the hemophiliacs
who injected the factor became infected, based on the antibody test.
If you substitute the term "HIV" with "Marburg virus", then
suspicion MUST arise as to the pathogenesis via blood.
That experiment is over, ladies and gentlemen.
What remains is an artifact of flat-world neurotics.
GMCarter
>On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 03:35:26 +0000 (UTC),
>dmc...@remulak.ads.uwaterloo.ca (David Canzi -- non-mailable) wrote:
>
>>In article <795604441415b4e1...@localhost.talkabouthealthnetwork.com>,
>>Iconoclaster <wg...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>>So feel free to bring on your beloved 'HIV' My immune system can take on
>>>anything. Dr. Robert Willner injected himself on Spanish TV with the
>>>blood of a seropositive man. Nothing bad happened.
>>
>>What type of bad thing do you think could have happened?
>>
>>>After that, Dr.
>>>Willner repeated this stunt another six times.
>>
>>What Dr. Willner did was to jab a needle very quickly in and out of
>>the hand of an HIV+ man, then jab the needle into himself.
>
>Forget Wilner.
>
>Remember the tens of thousands of hemophiliacs who regularly
>injected HIV-infected clotting factor and didn't get infected.
>
>Fact: 100% of the clotting factor in the early 1980s was
>contaminated with HIV, yet around 50% of the hemophiliacs
>who injected the factor became infected, based on the antibody test.
Where did you obtain these "facts"?
>If you substitute the term "HIV" with "Marburg virus", then
>suspicion MUST arise as to the pathogenesis via blood.
What? This statement is bizarre even for you, frodlet.
>That experiment is over, ladies and gentlemen.
>
>What remains is an artifact of flat-world neurotics.
What remains of what? Your mind? Denialist thinking?
You're now asserting that HIV doesn't exist? Or doesn't cause AIDS?
Is that what you told your friend Pasquarelli?
Are you over your alcoholism yet? Have you finished stabbing ersatz
"patients" illegally? Have you taken a bath in DNCB??
George M. Carter
red...@alltel.net
wrote:
>As someone who has been taking Antiviral medications for a decade now I
>wonder how you plan on showing that they are deadly if George were to take
>them?
Interestingly, Mr. Carter and Mr. Stein both arise from verizon.com.
Oh, my! What a coincidence!
I wonder how many newgroupers would be surprised to learn that
George Stein has been on pharmaceutical payrolls for all these years?
Oh, did I say "George Stein" (lol) ??????
I'm sorry ... I must have mistaken George Carter with his Gary Stein
personality which has remained in the employ of the pharmaceutical
public relations machine... not much different than the George
Carter wiho was paid by Arkopharma France for his busy-work
in the public relations promotion of SPV-30 as its US distributor
of about, oh .... a decade ago (gee, another coincidence!)
Now didn't Mr. "Stein" claim to be on these "antiviral" drugs for
about a decade (yet another coincidence!)
[NOTE: for those interested, please see the POZ magazine
promos for SPV-30, the Boxwood extract - all of the articles
and claims were authored by George Carter].
GMCarter
>On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 20:39:29 GMT, "Gary Stein" <ge.s...@verizon.net>
>wrote:
>
>>As someone who has been taking Antiviral medications for a decade now I
>>wonder how you plan on showing that they are deadly if George were to take
>>them?
>
>Interestingly, Mr. Carter and Mr. Stein both arise from verizon.com.
>
>Oh, my! What a coincidence!
>
>I wonder how many newgroupers would be surprised to learn that
>George Stein has been on pharmaceutical payrolls for all these years?
>
>Oh, did I say "George Stein" (lol) ??????
Hahahaha! Aw, frodlet, ya haven't changed a bit.
You poor sot! I still hope you find healing for your misery, dearest!!
George M. Carter
Brian Mailman
> I'm sorry ... I must have mistaken George Carter with his Gary Stein
> personality...
I thought George was Martin Delaney.
B/
David Canzi -- non-mailable
This is like learning that two seemingly unrelated individuals
ACTUALLY LIVE ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE MISSISSIPPI!!!
>Oh, my! What a coincidence!
--
David Canzi
red...@alltel.net
Unfortunately, Mr. Mailman, in your many years of promoting failed
drug regimens that have resulted in the early deaths of thousands,
and in contradiction to todays standard of care, you have failed to
actually conjure an actual original thought.
David Canzi -- non-mailable
--
David Canzi
red...@alltel.net
dmc...@remulak.ads.uwaterloo.ca (David Canzi -- non-mailable) wrote:
>Change of subject duly noted.
Wrong. I was present during one of Dr. Wilner's HIV-injection stunts.
He's dead now (not related to HIV) and nobody cares.
All of that is irrelevant, however, when one examines the
HUGE body of evidence from the hemophiliac experience,
which, like the rest of the science, is of little interest to the
pharmaceutical public relations scammers such as Canzi, Stein,
Carter, and others on this newsgroup who stoop to the
lowest forms of discourse.
GMCarter
>On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 15:53:35 -0700, Brian Mailman
><bmai...@sfo.invalid> wrote:
>
>>red...@alltel.net wrote:
>>
>>> I'm sorry ... I must have mistaken George Carter with his Gary Stein
>>> personality...
>>
>>I thought George was Martin Delaney.
Activist syncytia?
>Unfortunately, Mr. Mailman, in your many years of promoting failed
>drug regimens that have resulted in the early deaths of thousands,
>and in contradiction to todays standard of care, you have failed to
>actually conjure an actual original thought.
Gosh, Frodlet, I thot it was you pressing Pasquarelli to follow his
denialist line, refuse to take ARV and subsequently die that was
directly involved with killing someone.
Does he haunt your dreams, frodlet?
George M. Carter
Iconoclaster
You asked: "I wonder how you plan on showing that they are deadly if
George were to take them?"
Well, that's very simple. I don't have to show you at all. George would
show you. As soon as you hear the sound of a bucket being kicked, you
will know he fared with your nice, not to mention lucrative ARVs.
You also posed another interesting question:
"As to your claim that the HIV/AIDS epi data is simply a matter of
falsified numbers could you explain how it is that such a fraud was
coordinated on a world wide scale? I would love to hear you explain how
the national health services of just about every nation on the planet that
has one were all recruited into your vast conspiracy to falsify the data
regarding HIV and AIDS?"
Wow! That's a long question, while the answer is so short: Have you ever
heard of WHO? And UNAIDS?
Iconoclaster
experiment that was really performed live. If Dr. Willner did take too
little of the "infected" blood, the how come everybody makes such a
hullabaloo about nurses who accidentally stick themselves with a needle?
GMCarter
wrote:
>Hi Mr. Stein, good to see you here too.
>
>You asked: "I wonder how you plan on showing that they are deadly if
>George were to take them?"
>Well, that's very simple. I don't have to show you at all. George would
>show you. As soon as you hear the sound of a bucket being kicked, you
>will know he fared with your nice, not to mention lucrative ARVs.
Say I dropped dead (which, like you, I will at some point). What does
that say about ARV? An individual death means little.
Yet, where ARV is available and when people take several different
toxic medications, mortality from AIDS declines. That doesn't seem to
affect your worldview much, does it?
Gary, as he's pointed out, is one of those folks. If you live by
anecdotes, than he should be enough.
By contrast, if you take the HIV challenge, foolishly decide to get
infected, you can watch your magicaly mystery T cells go away. And
you'll die of AIDS.
Like David Pasquarelli did. He was HIV+. He believed you and the Frod
Show. And he died for it.
George M. Carter
GMCarter
wrote:
Needlestick injuries that arouse the greatest concern are those that
are deep and/or draw blood.
And there's a hullaballoo because healthcare workers and homecare
attendants face great risks with a needlestick. With those diseases
you figure don't exist. Was the Holocaust also some kind of figment in
your world? Just curious.
George M. Carter
Iconoclaster
>you DON'T have a paper demonstrating the isolation of HIV?"
"Nope."
OK, so then why the hell ARE you postponing it?
Come with some solid material, or shut up and slither of, all the way to
the bank.
"By reasonable standards and among virologists of all stripes, HIV has
been isolated."
Not of all stripes, of course. Only yellow stripes. And the papers where
they report their 'isolation' will be presented soon, during the next
press conference of GlaxoSmithKline.
Mr. Carter, has the idea STILL not penetrated your skull that nobody will
believe HIV has been properly isolated, just because you say so?
And by the way, when you post those EM pictures of 'HIV', do me a couple
of 'Hep-C' too...
I don't really think 'HCV' is a proper name for this virus anyway. They
should call it 'AliBV' (for 'Alibi Virus') It was only invented to cover
up the hepatic damage that is done by those fine (and lucrative) ARVs.
I never knew Mr. Pasquarelli. All I know is he died. Maybe he secretly
took some of your fine (and lucrative!) ARVs
Iconoclaster
female) who are not taking any of those poisons, and who are in good
health. Oh well, in a hudred years they will all be dead, I know.
The toxicity of the ARVs has at least been demonstrated. The
pharmaceutical companies even cover their asses by mentioning it on their
package inserts. And the Concorde study showed long ago that nobody lives
a day longer because of these infernal treatments.
Should we then believe the bogeyman, in the form of a 'virus' that nobody
can find, will get us if we don't take your fine (and lucrative!)
poisons?
I admit, you do a good sales job. You're even better than the snake oil
merchant I heard some time ago.
Iconoclaster
No, I never denied the holocaust, because it really happened. I do know,
because I was there.
red...@alltel.net
wrote:
>No, that won't wash. I know too many 'HIV+' individuals (both male and
>female) who are not taking any of those poisons, and who are in good
>health. Oh well, in a hudred years they will all be dead, I know.
Careful - you too are on the verge of being accused of child
molestation ... actually, a high point of discourse for
the Carter - Stein - Canzi persona...
red...@alltel.net
dmc...@remulak.ads.uwaterloo.ca (David Canzi -- non-mailable) wrote:
>In article <uqnha15bemb08crhh...@4ax.com>,
> <red...@alltel.net> wrote:
>>Interestingly, Mr. Carter and Mr. Stein both arise from verizon.com.
>
>This is like learning that two seemingly unrelated individuals
>ACTUALLY LIVE ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE MISSISSIPPI!!!
And drink from the same glass ... and feed from the same
pharmaceutical trough.
red...@alltel.net
>On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 11:09:29 -0700, red...@alltel.net wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 03:35:26 +0000 (UTC),
>>dmc...@remulak.ads.uwaterloo.ca (David Canzi -- non-mailable) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <795604441415b4e1...@localhost.talkabouthealthnetwork.com>,
>>>Iconoclaster <wg...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>>>So feel free to bring on your beloved 'HIV' My immune system can take on
>>>>anything. Dr. Robert Willner injected himself on Spanish TV with the
>>>>blood of a seropositive man. Nothing bad happened.
>>>
>>>What type of bad thing do you think could have happened?
>>>
>>>>After that, Dr.
>>>>Willner repeated this stunt another six times.
>>>
>>>What Dr. Willner did was to jab a needle very quickly in and out of
>>>the hand of an HIV+ man, then jab the needle into himself.
>>
>>Forget Wilner.
>>
>>Remember the tens of thousands of hemophiliacs who regularly
>>injected HIV-infected clotting factor and didn't get infected.
>>
>>Fact: 100% of the clotting factor in the early 1980s was
>>contaminated with HIV, yet around 50% of the hemophiliacs
>>who injected the factor became infected, based on the antibody test.
>
>Where did you obtain these "facts"?
The true tragedy is that Carter has never, ever had an
interest in the actual facts.
He isn't paid for that.
>Have you taken a bath in DNCB??
While mocking, nobody would be surprised that you were
one of the chief salesmen for DNCB over the past decade.
No different than SPV-30.
LOL!
red...@alltel.net
wrote:
>Ah, we're finally there, Mr. carter! The holocaust.
>No, I never denied the holocaust, because it really happened. I do know,
>because I was there.
Unfortunately, Mr Carter's fondness for labels such as "child
molester" or "denialist" has never waned.
Perhaps the designation "George M. Carter, Defendant" will
change his outlook, but I doubt it.
GMCarter
wrote:
>"Mr. Carter, are you trying to postpone the moment you'll have to confess
>>you DON'T have a paper demonstrating the isolation of HIV?"
>
>"Nope."
>
>OK, so then why the hell ARE you postponing it?
Postponing what?
>Come with some solid material, or shut up and slither of, all the way to
>the bank.
There's lots out there. I'm sure you're intimately familiar with it.
Frod (redrum, as she likes to coyly call herself) will of course agree
with you to the point of actually saying that HIV exists or
not....he'll remain sorta vague on that point.
>"By reasonable standards and among virologists of all stripes, HIV has
>been isolated."
>
>Not of all stripes, of course. Only yellow stripes.
What a clever riposte!
>And the papers where
>they report their 'isolation' will be presented soon, during the next
>press conference of GlaxoSmithKline.
Ah--lots of labs have isolated HIV. Not just GSK.
>Mr. Carter, has the idea STILL not penetrated your skull that nobody will
>believe HIV has been properly isolated, just because you say so?
Mr. Anonymous fellow, has it STILL not penetrated your brain that most
people don't buy your delusions?
>And by the way, when you post those EM pictures of 'HIV', do me a couple
>of 'Hep-C' too...
Why should I bother? You'll just run like a worm orobouros after your
own tail.
>I don't really think 'HCV' is a proper name for this virus anyway. They
>should call it 'AliBV' (for 'Alibi Virus') It was only invented to cover
>up the hepatic damage that is done by those fine (and lucrative) ARVs.
>
>I never knew Mr. Pasquarelli. All I know is he died. Maybe he secretly
>took some of your fine (and lucrative!) ARVs
Oh, no secret. He got desperate and tried them a little bit. A few
weeks. He suffered from a variety of opportunistic infections because
he believe deluded assholes like you.
George M. Carter
GMCarter
wrote:
>No, that won't wash. I know too many 'HIV+' individuals (both male and
>female) who are not taking any of those poisons, and who are in good
>health. Oh well, in a hudred years they will all be dead, I know.
A lot of people can stay healthy for long periods without ARV...at
least until their CD4 drops below 200.
>The toxicity of the ARVs has at least been demonstrated. The
>pharmaceutical companies even cover their asses by mentioning it on their
>package inserts. And the Concorde study showed long ago that nobody lives
>a day longer because of these infernal treatments.
LOL. Concorde showed AZT monotherapy sucks. Big surprise.
And yes, ARV is pretty toxic.
>Should we then believe the bogeyman, in the form of a 'virus' that nobody
>can find, will get us if we don't take your fine (and lucrative!)
>poisons?
I think you should believe the evidence both of experience and a whole
hell of a lot of research. I watched many friends die. ARV came along
and a number of friends who I was pretty sure would be dead soon are
still alive.
>I admit, you do a good sales job. You're even better than the snake oil
>merchant I heard some time ago.
When? 1910?
By all means, tho, dear. If you're stupid enough to really believe
your own bullshit, get yourself infected.
George M. Carter
GMCarter
snip...
>>>Fact: 100% of the clotting factor in the early 1980s was
>>>contaminated with HIV, yet around 50% of the hemophiliacs
>>>who injected the factor became infected, based on the antibody test.
>>
>>Where did you obtain these "facts"?
>
>The true tragedy is that Carter has never, ever had an
>interest in the actual facts.
To the contrary! I am intrigued by what you claim to be facts. And yet
when a request is made for you to back them up, you retreat into
insult.
>He isn't paid for that.
>
>>Have you taken a bath in DNCB??
>
>While mocking, nobody would be surprised that you were
>one of the chief salesmen for DNCB over the past decade.
I was never a 'chief salesman" of anything.
>No different than SPV-30.
Not that either.
Actually, I think SPV-30/Buxus sempervirens may work as part of a
botanical combo to help slow disease progression among people with
higher CD4 counts. A clinical study to evaluate the possibility is in
the works.
So what's your next line of insulting attack, frodlet? Carry on! But
dear, you're getting a bit long in the tooth and I fear you may give
yourself a stroke.
George M. Carter
GMCarter
wrote:
>Ah, we're finally there, Mr. carter! The holocaust.
>No, I never denied the holocaust, because it really happened. I do know,
>because I was there.
Well, it's certainly nice that you don't deny THAT happened.
wilyretrovirus
He also died. Those two things are true. I'm sure many people could test
"positive" on an "HIV" test and eventually die. "HIV" tests react to a
few proteins, or maybe several (depending on where you take it).
So-called "HIV" tests are worthless for their supposed purpose, but
excellent as money-makers for pharmaceutical companies.
David Canzi -- non-mailable
Everybody? Hullabaloo? Methinks you exaggerate.
The average probability of infection is "only" 0.3%, according to
the link below. Most of the factors mentioned at the link below
that increase the risk of infection above 0.3% are present for,
say, a nurse who draws blood samples, and absent for Dr. Willner's
self-inflicted jab.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9366579&dopt=Citation
You said earlier that "nothing bad happened" after Willner's stunt.
I asked you what bad thing you thought could have happened, and you
didn't answer. I still want to know. I don't intend to forget this
question until I finally understand clearly why you thought it was
important to mention that "nothing bad happened" to Dr. Willner.
--
David Canzi
GMCarter
<purf...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
>Pasquarelli at some point in his life tested "positive" on an "HIV" test.
Yes.
>He also died. Those two things are true.
Yes. He developed AIDS. He developed various opportunistic infections,
like cryptococcal meningitis.
>I'm sure many people could test
>"positive" on an "HIV" test and eventually die.
Very often sooner than normal and usually related to various otherwise
unlikely opportunistic infections.
>"HIV" tests react to a
>few proteins, or maybe several (depending on where you take it).
Yes. Proteins used by HIV.
>So-called "HIV" tests are worthless for their supposed purpose, but
>excellent as money-makers for pharmaceutical companies.
No, they are not worthless at all. That is a lie.
Yes, companies have moved in to make huge profits--to the point where
they will DENY huge populations that cannot pay their exorbitant
costs.
That is a form of economic genocide, in my view.
But that's because they see a market where they can make money.
Not because HIV doesn't exist or cause AIDS.
You are entitled to believe it does not. You may believe any nonsense
you wish. You may discover for yourself, like Pasquarelli, the truth
of the matter if you are HIV+. And, like him, you will probably die of
complications due to opportunistic infections.
George M. Carter
wilyretrovirus
death by opportunistic infections resulting from "HIV" infection. Sorry,
bud. I'm way beyond being able to be hexed by the dreaded, mythical
"HIV". All I had to do was read about Gallo's supposed "isolation" of
"HIV" and the "tests" configured from that "isolation" to know that
HIV=AIDS is a farce from it's very genesis. Yawn. Try another scare
tactic, because fear is what gives HIV=AIDS its momentum, not credible
science.
Brian Mailman
> ... I don't intend to forget this question until I finally understand
> clearly why you thought it was important to mention that "nothing bad
> happened" to Dr. Willner.
Well. He wasn't hit by an ice cream truck.
B/
Brian Mailman
Brian Mailman
> I'm way beyond being able to be hexed by the dreaded, mythical "HIV".
Was it the eye of newt?
B/
red...@alltel.net
>On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 20:57:20 -0400, "Iconoclaster" <wg...@xs4all.nl>
>wrote:
>
>LOL. Concorde showed AZT monotherapy sucks. Big surprise.
>
Interestingly, at the time the Concorde study was published,
Mr. Carter was among the loudest in the choir of pharmaceutical
stooges who were denouncing it as flawed.
Thats what the ACT UP goonsquad was paid to do. And
yes, Mr. Carter was among the sociopaths belonging to
the ACT UP New York.
And there is so much more about Mr. Carter that
newgroup readers will come to learn...
red...@alltel.net
<purf...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
>Pasquarelli at some point in his life tested "positive" on an "HIV" test.
>He also died. Those two things are true. I'm sure many people could test
>"positive" on an "HIV" test and eventually die.
Pasquarelli fought the system and was jailed thanks to the tireless
efforts of the pharmaceutical stooges like Martin Delaney, his
Project Inform goonsquad in cooperation with ACT UP goonsquads
like ACT UP New York (surprise! George Carterwas a member of
that sordid collection of drug addicts, ex-addicts and misfits.
Delaney et al was behind the fraudulent restraining order that
ultimately led to Pasquarelli's jailing for his protest activities
against the pharmaceutical HIV scams.
Pasquarelli was a danger to no one other than the pharmaceutical
industry and its army of shills, stooges and public relations
boiler rooms that you see present on the usenet newsgroups
(by now you can tell who they are here).
Always remember: Pasquarelli died while using the "antiviral" drugs.
No matter how the pharmagoons insist on spinning it, this is
the final fact about Pasquarelli's early demise.
red...@alltel.net
<bmai...@sfo.invalid> wrote:
>red...@alltel.net wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 15:53:35 -0700, Brian Mailman
>> <bmai...@sfo.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>red...@alltel.net wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm sorry ... I must have mistaken George Carter with his Gary Stein
>>>> personality...
>>>
>>>I thought George was Martin Delaney.
>>
>> Unfortunately, Mr. Mailman, in your many years of promoting failed
>> drug regimens that have resulted in the early deaths of thousands,
>> and in contradiction to todays standard of care, you have failed to
>> actually conjure an actual original thought.
>
>My ironical meter just broke.
A typical sociopathic response of yet another pharma stooge.
red...@alltel.net
Carter loves to throw the denialist label around.
I'm surprised Carter hasn't called you a (gulp) ... liberal.
red...@alltel.net
>On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 21:22:47 -0700, red...@alltel.net wrote:
>
>snip...
>
>>>>Fact: 100% of the clotting factor in the early 1980s was
>>>>contaminated with HIV, yet around 50% of the hemophiliacs
>>>>who injected the factor became infected, based on the antibody test.
>>>
>>>Where did you obtain these "facts"?
>>
>>The true tragedy is that Carter has never, ever had an
>>interest in the actual facts.
>
>To the contrary! I am intrigued by what you claim to be facts. And yet
>when a request is made for you to back them up, you retreat into
>insult.
These facts were published here long ago.
You refused to read or consider them then.
Why on earth would you now?
Sadly, Mr. Carter failed to obtain even a lowly Bachelor's degree,
and remains resistant to every notion of education.
Gary Stein
"Brian Mailman" <bmai...@sfo.invalid> wrote in message
news:11ahi3h...@news.supernews.com...
> red...@alltel.net wrote:
>
>> I'm sorry ... I must have mistaken George Carter with his Gary Stein
>> personality...
>
> I thought George was Martin Delaney.
No that was in the 1990's then Frod had his breakdown and went somewhere to
be cured for several years. Now his delusions have switched and he thinks
George and I are the same person. Even though anyone with just a bit of
knowledge on running IP number trace routes would be able to see that my IP
comes from a West Coast block of numbers while Georges comes from the East
Coast. Oh well it's just the Frod show not much need to pay it any attention
other then to get the occasional laugh from the absurdities he rambles on
about.
Gary Stein
GMCarter
>On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:31:09 GMT, GMCarter <fi...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 20:57:20 -0400, "Iconoclaster" <wg...@xs4all.nl>
>>wrote:
>>
>
>>LOL. Concorde showed AZT monotherapy sucks. Big surprise.
>>
>
>Interestingly, at the time the Concorde study was published,
>Mr. Carter was among the loudest in the choir of pharmaceutical
>stooges who were denouncing it as flawed.
LOL. I certainly was not. That's just a dead cold lie.
>Thats what the ACT UP goonsquad was paid to do.
ACT UP? We were all volunteers. No one was paid.
>And
>yes, Mr. Carter was among the sociopaths belonging to
>the ACT UP New York.
Yes indeed! And proud of it. I met some of the most incredible people
I've ever had the privilege to know.
>And there is so much more about Mr. Carter that
>newgroup readers will come to learn...
I'm sure you'll make up all kinda shit!
George M. Carter
GMCarter
wrote:
> Now his delusions have switched and he thinks
>George and I are the same person.
Stop, Gary, just STOP! We must face the truth. WE are the same
person!! I'm sure we are!
Gemini
GMCarter
snip delerious dithering...
>Always remember: Pasquarelli died while using the "antiviral" drugs.
>
>No matter how the pharmagoons insist on spinning it, this is
>the final fact about Pasquarelli's early demise.
He did apparently use them intermittently. Because he was desperate
and frightened. Because he was getting illnesses relatively young men
do not get. Because he had AIDS.
Maybe he started to believe the truth. But it was too late. He
listened to lying assholes like you and he died because of it.
George M. Carter
GMCarter
snip...
>>>>>Fact: 100% of the clotting factor in the early 1980s was
>>>>>contaminated with HIV, yet around 50% of the hemophiliacs
>>>>>who injected the factor became infected, based on the antibody test.
snip
>These facts were published here long ago.
Really? I think not.
>You refused to read or consider them then.
LOL. Probably because they weren't?
In short-you're full of shit, eh?
George M. Carter
Iconoclaster
Carter.
So you decided to weasel out of producing the EM evidence on "HIV" and
"HCV" (or rather: AliBV).
"There's lots out there", you say. But no, I'm not intimately familiar
with it. Even Kary Mullis couldn't find it. But he is probably also on
your blacklist of scientists you refuse to read. Funny then that you do
rely on Robert Gallo, who has never done an honest experiment in his
life.
But shucks... Maybe there is lots out there. A lot of things between
heaven and earth that we don't know about. But is it science? I don't
think so.
I personally would hate to be in your position. They must pay you very
well.
I don't know 'redrum' personally, but the name has a nice ring to it.
Like 'The other side of murder', the pharmaceutical corollary to 'The
other side of AIDS' (which movie I warmly recommend). Oh, and one more
thing: Please don't call me 'anonymous' anymore. It hurts my feelings. I
told you clearly who I am. And you did Google me, right?
Do you really think lots of labs have isolated HIV? Naw, of course you
don't. Nobody could be that naïve. The whole world still works with an
immortal cell line originating with Robert Gallo, containing what he
alleges to be HIV. We all know he's a fraud, but business is business.
No, nobody could believe that. You were joking, of course. It's a good
one, that's for sure!
I do feel sad about Mr. Pasquarelli, even though I never knew him. So he
did try the ARVs for a week or so, you say? No wonder then, he's dead.
One or two weeks is usually enough to finish off a cancer patient on
chemotherapy. And AZT, which is used on 'AIDS patients' is not even
allowed in cancer therapy. Too toxic.
As I unconditionally subscribe to the title of this thread: "Hard to kill
with a myth", I think it is necessary to point out that it is very easy
indeed to kill with toxic medications. Because you are closer to the
pharma industry than I am, maybe you could recommend a name change for
HAART. Instead of 'Highly Active Antiretroviral Therapy', it would be
better to call it 'Super High Intensity Therapy'. That is far more
descripive, and it might sell even better.
Iconoclaster
you.
Not much imagination, choosing nicknames, eh? Get some help from 'redrum'
At least that's an original and also very meaningful name.
Iconoclaster
"Careful - you too are on the verge of being accused of child molestation
.. actually, a high point of discourse for the Carter - Stein - Canzi
persona..."
Could I also expect then to be accused of being a bombmaker?
Iconoclaster
toxic substance of them all, so diluting it a little with other chemicals
that are slightly less toxic, is an improvement.
I'm happy to note some of your friends are still alive. They must have
cleaned up their act. That helps, you know.
Well now... Get myself infected? With WHAT??
Oh... I get it! An injection with a hefty bubble of hot air will also
kill you. Sorry. I didn't think of that right away.
GMCarter
wrote:
>Always a pleasure to wake up and find another reaction from you, Mr.
>Carter.
Likewise, I'm sure...
>So you decided to weasel out of producing the EM evidence on "HIV" and
>"HCV" (or rather: AliBV).
Nope. It's just that it's been posted here before and I imagine you're
capable of doing a google search and commenting as you like.
>"There's lots out there", you say. But no, I'm not intimately familiar
>with it.
hmmm...maybe you're not familiar with Google.
>Even Kary Mullis couldn't find it. But he is probably also on
>your blacklist of scientists you refuse to read.
Nope. I'd considered his opinions from nearly a decade ago, looked at
data from a range of other sources and realized he was incorrect.
Does he claim now that HIV doesn't exist?
>Funny then that you do
>rely on Robert Gallo, who has never done an honest experiment in his
>life.
No, I don't rely on Robert Gallo! LOL....in fact, I haven't paid a
heck of a lot of attention to his stuff at all.
>But shucks... Maybe there is lots out there. A lot of things between
>heaven and earth that we don't know about. But is it science? I don't
>think so.
Well, there's also PubMed. You can look there. But you see, you don't
really WANT to look. You want someone else to do the work for you
which leads me to believe your being disingenuous.
>I personally would hate to be in your position. They must pay you very
>well.
Who must pay me what? My salary is pretty dismal actually. So who pays
you? And how much?
>I don't know 'redrum' personally, but the name has a nice ring to it.
Yeah. Try The Shining.
>Like 'The other side of murder', the pharmaceutical corollary to 'The
>other side of AIDS' (which movie I warmly recommend). Oh, and one more
>thing: Please don't call me 'anonymous' anymore. It hurts my feelings. I
>told you clearly who I am. And you did Google me, right?
Nope. I don't believe who you claim to be.
>Do you really think lots of labs have isolated HIV? Naw, of course you
>don't.
Yes, I do.
>Nobody could be that naďve.
Many thousands of folks have worked with HIV in a whole range of
experiments...so when only ONE or two people still insist it hasn't
been isolated...well....
>
>I do feel sad about Mr. Pasquarelli, even though I never knew him. So he
>did try the ARVs for a week or so, you say? No wonder then, he's dead.
LOL. If ARV's killed in a few weeks, then there'd be a LOT of dead
people. Clearly, you don't know the clinical literature either.
>One or two weeks is usually enough to finish off a cancer patient on
>chemotherapy. And AZT, which is used on 'AIDS patients' is not even
>allowed in cancer therapy. Too toxic.
Do you know about dosing?
>As I unconditionally subscribe to the title of this thread: "Hard to kill
>with a myth", I think it is necessary to point out that it is very easy
>indeed to kill with toxic medications. '
Oh, indeed it is! And in fact, the HIV meds CAN kill people with their
toxicities. No question. But the chance of dying on ARV is MUCH less
than of untreated HIV infection.
>Because you are closer to the
>pharma industry than I am,
In what way am I closer to the pharmaceutical industry in your mind?
>maybe you could recommend a name change for
>HAART. Instead of 'Highly Active Antiretroviral Therapy', it would be
>better to call it 'Super High Intensity Therapy'. That is far more
>descripive, and it might sell even better.
LOL. You're awful clever...I didn't realize you WERE taking the drugs
as you do appear to be full of SHIT!
George M. Carter
Iconoclaster
If you're moving in the wrong direction, standing still is already an
improbement.
Iconoclaster
exactly where we come in.
We want to make damn sure that nobody who is willing to listen to reason
has to be frightened into using homicidal drugs anymore. Because we are
there to counter your bullshit and to reveal the truth.
I'm sure that when I mentioned my "Get Carter file", you took it as a
joke. You are the only one.
Iconoclaster
Iconoclaster
that I immediately recognize it when it is happening again. And it is
happening RIGHT NOW.
The cast is different. Instead of the Jews, now gay men everywhere, plus
the whole black African population has taken on the role of the victims.
And instead of ADOLF and his goons, we now have the big pharmaceutical
companies as the perpetrators.
But the script is the same. Mass murder.
And it turns out that, as far as this new holocaust is concerned, YOU are
the denialist.
Iconoclaster
Carter? Very comical. But not surprising, of course. You never seem to
believe simple facts that are staring you in the face.
Do I know about dosing? Yes, I tink so. If you take a very toxic drug,
and you add other drugs that are slightly less toxic, then the final dose
of the most toxic component comes out smaller. That's what you mean,
right?
"If ARV's killed in a few weeks, then there'd be a LOT of dead people."
Actually, there are a lot of dead people. But they're counted as "AIDS
dead", not as "poisoned".
Of course there are also people on ARVs who are still alive after a year
or so, but those are the ones who were perfectly healthy when they were
put on the drugs. They just had been dumb enough to allow themselves to
be 'tested', and they came up 'positive'.
The idea that the chance of dying when you're on ARVs is smaller than when
you remain untreated is one of the bald-faced lies that we're fighting.
If you really think it's only 'a couple' of people who think 'HIV' is a
scam, you'll have a few surprises coming. But obviously, you don't check
websites that don't suit you. There are already more that 2100 (and
counting) persons with academic qualifications on the list at:
http://aras.ab.ca/rethinkers.htm
My name is also on the list, by the way.
I gladly believe there are thousands of scientists working on 'HIV',
doing real experiments. Those people have to eat, and send their kids to
school. Not complying with the 'official' HIV-story will cost them their
reserch grants, if not their job.
But if you read their papers (try it some time!), it turns out that
nothing in their methodology and their data would change if you leave
every reference to 'HIV' out. The "Results and Conclusion" section always
pays tribute to the AIDS/HIV dogma, and should actually end with
"Yes,Massa!"
It's sad, but science is dead. We need a new Renaissance.
GMCarter
wrote:
><Hmpf! Grshtt! Snicker!> So you don't believe I am who I say I am, Mr
>Carter?
Why should I?
>Do I know about dosing? Yes, I tink so. If you take a very toxic drug,
>and you add other drugs that are slightly less toxic, then the final dose
>of the most toxic component comes out smaller. That's what you mean,
>right?
What are you dithering about?
>"If ARV's killed in a few weeks, then there'd be a LOT of dead people."
>Actually, there are a lot of dead people. But they're counted as "AIDS
>dead", not as "poisoned".
There are a lot of people dead with AIDS. There are a still
significant number but fewer dying of ARV-related side effects or,
very often, Hepatitis C coinfection.
>Of course there are also people on ARVs who are still alive after a year
>or so,
Oh, crap, you haven't got a fucking clue. I know people who have been
on them for YEARS on end.
George M. Carter
GMCarter
wrote:
>Monotherapy sucks. You're absolutely right, Mr. Carter. AZT is the most
>toxic substance of them all, so diluting it a little with other chemicals
>that are slightly less toxic, is an improvement.
Now I know you're an idiot. The dose of AZT, 600 mg a day, is the same
as it was back in about 1990. It could PROBABLY be 300 mg/day and have
the same benefit--but the only thing that changed was the dose dropped
from 1200 mg/day.
Dearest, who never ever signs his name, you're full of shit.
George M. Carter
GMCarter
wrote:
So are you now threatening me? In which case, I am saving this for
future prosecution, should that be necessary.
If so, I can understand why you are afraid to sign your name. Most
bullies are indeed cowards.
George M. Carter
GMCarter
wrote:
>No, of course the holocaust happened, Mr. Carter. I remember it so well
>that I immediately recognize it when it is happening again. And it is
>happening RIGHT NOW.
>The cast is different. Instead of the Jews, now gay men everywhere, plus
>the whole black African population has taken on the role of the victims.
>And instead of ADOLF and his goons, we now have the big pharmaceutical
>companies as the perpetrators.
Oddly, but not in the way you think, I agree.
>But the script is the same. Mass murder.
>And it turns out that, as far as this new holocaust is concerned, YOU are
>the denialist.
Not in the slightest. People dying in Africa and South and Southeast
Asia and Russia and countries around it are dying from AIDS because
they CANNOT get access to ARV. Nor, often, drugs to treat OIs.
I suppose that makes you happy.
George M. Carter
Iconoclaster
answer the question what I meant by that? Rather obvious, I think. He
didn't come down with AIDS, or anything that even in the warped
imagination of an HIV-pusher could be interpreted as AIDS or one of it
indicator diseases. This was a meaningful experiment to fight the fear
mongering connected with the HIV movement.
You quoted a paper. Here's the last sentence:
"CONCLUSIONS: The risk of HIV infection after percutaneous exposure
increases with a larger volume of blood and, probably, a higher titer of
HIV in the source patient's blood."
A higher titer? That titer is ZERO. And that's exactly the reason why
'HIV' could never be isolated from the blood of a seropositive
individual.
Iconoclaster
Iconoclaster
ARV-poisoning"
Remember: Liver diseases are not part of the 29 AIDS-defining diseases.
So the large number of poor saps who died of liver failure had to be
explained away by inventing another virus: Hep-C. That's why I call it
the Alibi Virus, remember?
I see the day coming when they have invented so many viruses to keep the
myth alive that there won't be time enough in a day to defend them all.
Iconoclaster
Why should I sign my name? Everybody knows who I am.
Iconoclaster
afford the expensive drugs that are supposed to help them die.
There always were a lot of endemic diseases in Africa. Instead of helping
these people fight malaria and tuberculosis, they are sent toxic stuff
like AZT an nevirapine, to make the die even faster.
In my book that is genocide, the holocaust of the 21th century.
Iconoclaster
That would be completely out of character. I never threaten.
And why the whining about not signing my name? I stated my name very
clearly on my post of June 6th.
Besides, my e-mail address (a real POP mailbox, not some hotmail address)
is prominently displayed.
But you never check things. And you are - let's say - a little selective
in what you do and what you don't believe, regardless of the facts.
Iconoclaster
red...@alltel.net
wrote:
>
>"Brian Mailman" <bmai...@sfo.invalid> wrote in message
>news:11ahi3h...@news.supernews.com...
>> red...@alltel.net wrote:
>>
>>> I'm sorry ... I must have mistaken George Carter with his Gary Stein
>>> personality...
>>
>> I thought George was Martin Delaney.
>
>No that was in the 1990's then Frod had his breakdown...
more generous evidence that Carter is Stein and
Stein is Carter...
red...@alltel.net
>On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:56:56 -0700, red...@alltel.net wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:31:09 GMT, GMCarter <fi...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 20:57:20 -0400, "Iconoclaster" <wg...@xs4all.nl>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>LOL. Concorde showed AZT monotherapy sucks. Big surprise.
>>>
>>
>>Interestingly, at the time the Concorde study was published,
>>Mr. Carter was among the loudest in the choir of pharmaceutical
>>stooges who were denouncing it as flawed.
>
>LOL. I certainly was not. That's just a dead cold lie.
Speaking of lies, the Carter-Stein electronic pharma-merger
remains one that cannot be denied.
>ACT UP? We were all volunteers. No one was paid.
Bullshit. No. Amazing and incomprehensible BULLSHIT!
red...@alltel.net
>On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:49:15 GMT, "Gary Stein" <ge.s...@verizon.net>
>wrote:
>
>> Now his delusions have switched and he thinks
>>George and I are the same person.
>
>Stop, Gary, just STOP! We must face the truth. WE are the same
>person!! I'm sure we are!
The Stepford Fags of the pharma set.
True. Very true indeed.
red...@alltel.net
>On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:45:54 -0700, red...@alltel.net wrote:
>
>snip...
>
>>>>>>Fact: 100% of the clotting factor in the early 1980s was
>>>>>>contaminated with HIV, yet around 50% of the hemophiliacs
>>>>>>who injected the factor became infected, based on the antibody test.
>snip
>
>>These facts were published here long ago.
>
>Really? I think not.
You think? THINK?
How very, very sad.
David Canzi -- non-mailable
Iconoclaster <wg...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>"Nothing bad happened to Dr. Willner". Yes, I said that. And I didn't
>answer the question what I meant by that? Rather obvious, I think. He
>didn't come down with AIDS,
And what led you believe that this fact was important enough to
mention?
>This was a meaningful experiment to fight the fear
>mongering connected with the HIV movement.
It's only meaningful if people learn something from it. What do you
think you learned from it?
>You quoted a paper. Here's the last sentence:
>"CONCLUSIONS: The risk of HIV infection after percutaneous exposure
>increases with a larger volume of blood and, probably, a higher titer of
>HIV in the source patient's blood."
>
>A higher titer? That titer is ZERO.
If you're singing from the standard AIDS dissident hymn book, you'll
probably say the blood tests -- all of them -- are measuring nothing,
and you'll distract attention away from the observations showing that
meaningless blood tests on needlestick victims are likelier to detect
"nothing" if the source patient died of AIDS within 2 months than if
the source patient lived longer.
--
David Canzi
red...@alltel.net
wrote:
>I don't know 'redrum' personally, but the name has a nice ring to it.
Actually, my ID is "redrumtza".
Backwards: AZT Murder.
red...@alltel.net
wrote:
Bombthrower.
Something the Carter-Stein-Canzi persona would be proud of ...
along with their promotions for Islamic causes and anti-American
rhetoric.
red...@alltel.net
wrote:
>Monotherapy sucks. You're absolutely right, Mr. Carter. AZT is the most
>toxic substance of them all, so diluting it a little with other chemicals
>that are slightly less toxic, is an improvement.
Remember - AZT was Carter favorite Standard of Care ... that is,
until other additions to the immunosuppressive death squad arrived
just in time...
Even Carter added to the the DeathFest with his paid promos
for SPV-30, NAC and countless other money-making frauds-of-death!
>I'm happy to note some of your friends are still alive.
It is a mistake to confuse Carter with someone who actually
has "friends".
That would be like confusing Jeffrey Dahmer with a really
good "Handburger" ... if you get my drift....
REDRUMTZA
red...@alltel.net
>LOL. If ARV's killed in a few weeks, then there'd be a LOT of dead
>people. Clearly, you don't know the clinical literature either.
Carter laughs while ARVs destroy circulatory systemes.
Isn't that nice?
How about the term FAART = FAiled Anti-Retroviral Therapy?
red...@alltel.net
wrote:
>I'm sure that when I mentioned my "Get Carter file", you took it as a
>joke. You are the only one.
Hilarious!
Since REDRUMTZA arrived, Carter has been incapable of even the
most meager bowel movement...
"Full of shit" doesn't even come close to scumbag Carter's reality!
LOL
red...@alltel.net
wrote:
>George M. Carter - Perpetrator?
George M. Carter, Murderer.
redrumtza
red...@alltel.net
wrote:
>No, of course the holocaust happened, Mr. Carter. I remember it so well
>that I immediately recognize it when it is happening again...YOU are
>the denialist.
How about George M. Carter, Quizzling?
red...@alltel.net
>On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:35:20 -0400, "Iconoclaster" <wg...@xs4all.nl>
>wrote:
>
>><Hmpf! Grshtt! Snicker!> So you don't believe I am who I say I am, Mr
>>Carter?
>
>Why should I?
Mr. Carter is a psychopath. According to psychiatrist Stephen Barrett,
M.D., Carter is known as a "Cleckly Psychopath".
Don't waste time asking a Cleckly Psychopath about your identity.
>Oh, crap, you haven't got a fucking clue. I know people who have been
>on them for YEARS on end.
Carter is also a compulsive liar.
Part of the package, I'm afraid.
redrumtza
red...@alltel.net
>On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 19:22:44 -0400, "Iconoclaster" <wg...@xs4all.nl>
>wrote:
>
>>Monotherapy sucks. You're absolutely right, Mr. Carter. AZT is the most
>>toxic substance of them all, so diluting it a little with other chemicals
>>that are slightly less toxic, is an improvement.
>
>Now I know you're an idiot. The dose of AZT, 600 mg a day, is the same
>as it was back in about 1990.
Wrong, Mr. Carter - the 1990 dose was typically 1200 mg.
What a sad day it is for you and your uneducated pharma-ilk.
red...@alltel.net
>>I'm sure that when I mentioned my "Get Carter file", you took it as a
>>joke. You are the only one.
>
>So are you now threatening me? In which case, I am saving this for
>future prosecution, should that be necessary.
Carter wants your name so he can announce that you are a
molester of children, as he has done here over the past few
days in response to my posts.
What is MOST revealing about Mr. Carter is the FACT that he
has a history of running to the defense of child molesters (as
charged by the Sacramento Police Department), specifically
in the case of Bruce Mirken, an employee and recipient of
AIDS Walk funds collected by the San Francisco AIDS Foundation.
Now THAT will inspire everyone to "walk for AIDS".
NOT !!!! (LOL!!!)