Lifting for fat loss - high reps/low weight? low reps/high weight?
Brian Link
can't bring myself to it. Stair masters, ellipticals, bikes, etc. Way
too boring. The best I can do is a brisk 2 mile walk around the lake
every night.
On the other hand, I love lifting. So, accepting that I'm not gonna
see huge fat losses lifting alone, what would be the best way to
maximize fat loss by resistance training? It's my understanding that
the whole "more lean mass means more fat burning" has been deflated
here, so I'm just concentrating on the workout itself.
Thanks as always for any tips.
BLink
--------------------------
"The worst thing about censorship is [redacted]"
Jason Earl
> Yes, I know, the best exercise for fat loss is cardio, but I just
> can't bring myself to it. Stair masters, ellipticals, bikes,
> etc. Way too boring. The best I can do is a brisk 2 mile walk around
> the lake every night.
A two mile walk is cardio. If it happens to be cardio that you enjoy,
then more power to you.
> On the other hand, I love lifting. So, accepting that I'm not gonna
> see huge fat losses lifting alone, what would be the best way to
> maximize fat loss by resistance training? It's my understanding that
> the whole "more lean mass means more fat burning" has been deflated
> here, so I'm just concentrating on the workout itself.
More lean mass hasn't been deflated here, it simply hasn't been
over-inflated. You will burn more calories at rest as you add more
lean mass, and you will also burn more calories when you are
exercising as you add more muscle.
Muscle is good. In fact, if you diet without lifting weights you will
undoubtedly lower your metabolism. Lifting was definitely the "secret
sauce" in my own weight loss success.
I think that strength training combined with a two mile walk and a
good diet is probably a good plan. You also might try working in some
high repetition one arm snatches or swings, and you can also take a
look and see if some sort of Tabata interval sounds interesting, but
you could do worse than weight training and walking for exercise.
> Thanks as always for any tips.
Keep good notes...
Jason
Steve Freides
news:7el9e2li81t0rbgo2...@4ax.com...
> Yes, I know, the best exercise for fat loss is cardio, but I just
> can't bring myself to it. Stair masters, ellipticals, bikes, etc. Way
> too boring. The best I can do is a brisk 2 mile walk around the lake
> every night.
>
> On the other hand, I love lifting. So, accepting that I'm not gonna
> see huge fat losses lifting alone, what would be the best way to
> maximize fat loss by resistance training? It's my understanding that
> the whole "more lean mass means more fat burning" has been deflated
> here, so I'm just concentrating on the workout itself.
>
> Thanks as always for any tips.
The DragonDoor site does promise fat loss "without the dishonor of dieting
and aerobics." The usual formula is high-rep kettlebell swings (once you've
got the technique down, of course). I'm pretty sure DD just came out with
their first DVD targeted specifically at fat loss. Again, poke around on
their site, if you can't find it but are interested, let me know.
http://www.dragondoor.com/?kbid=1022 is a link that uses my affiliate ID.
Curt James
> Yes, I know, the best exercise for fat loss is cardio, but I just
> can't bring myself to it. Stair masters, ellipticals, bikes, etc. Way
> too boring. The best I can do is a brisk 2 mile walk around the lake
> every night.
Brisk is good. :o)
If you're no fan of cardio, what's your opinion on nutrition? Have you
seen any of my mentions of The Abs Diet? Available online at
http://theabsdiet.com/ or at your local Wal-Mart for a pittance. And if
you read what Zinczenko has to say about aerobic exercise versus weight
training I believe you'll be a happy camper. "Muscle eats fat," the
author states enthusiastically.
(Okay, those are just three words on paper, but I feel guilt-free
characterizing those words as having been issued "enthusiastically.")
> On the other hand, I love lifting. So, accepting that I'm not gonna
> see huge fat losses lifting alone,
Don't be so sure.
> what would be the best way to maximize fat loss by resistance
> training? It's my understanding that the whole "more lean mass
> means more fat burning" has been deflated here, so I'm just
> concentrating on the workout itself.
Cool.
> Thanks as always for any tips.
Buy the book.
> BLink
--
Curt
Bill Eitner
Brian Link wrote:
> Yes, I know, the best exercise for fat loss is cardio, but I just
> can't bring myself to it.
Deep down you may have the same apprehension
about it that I do. It's may be more likely
that it's best for scale weight loss, but
not necessarily fat loss while sparing hard
earned muscle in the case of drug-free trainees.
> Stair masters, ellipticals, bikes, etc. Way
> too boring. The best I can do is a brisk 2 mile walk around the lake
> every night.
>
> On the other hand, I love lifting. So, accepting that I'm not gonna
> see huge fat losses lifting alone, what would be the best way to
> maximize fat loss by resistance training?
How about low reps/high weight/low rest.
That's what I'm doing currently while
dieting. It's a hybrid of circuit
training and mass training. It's as
far as I'm willing to go in the direction
of aerobic work. Minimal rest cranks
up the heart rate, respiration, and
perspiration plenty. It's also very
efficient in that it's over with quickly.
The only drawback is that it doesn't
provide for the use of maximum poundages.
That's the concession that has to be
accepted in exchange for the cardio-like
benefits.
> It's my understanding that
> the whole "more lean mass means more fat burning" has been deflated
> here, so I'm just concentrating on the workout itself.
The fact that one doesn't do cardio doesn't
negate the effect of a diet with a negative
calorie balance. My philosophy is to never
stop trying to get stronger and build more
muscle--even while trying to lose fat. I
use dietary adjustments to slowly decrease
the bodyfat percentage. The low rest
training is an additional optional component.
--
Jason Earl
When I said lots of one arm snatches and swings, this is what I really
meant. I just didn't want to be the guy that brought up Pavel :).
Interestingly enough I just tested my 1.5 mile run and it was faster
than it had been in some time despite the fact that I no longer run on
a regular basis.
Not that I was ever very fast, but improvement at running without
having to actually run is a pretty big bonus in my book.
You could probably swing and snatch a dumbbell instead, but kbells are
more fun. I certainly am glad that I took Steve's advice and picked
one up.
Jason
ranieri
> can't bring myself to it. Stair masters, ellipticals, bikes, etc. Way
> too boring. The best I can do is a brisk 2 mile walk around the lake
> every night.
>
> On the other hand, I love lifting. So, accepting that I'm not gonna
> see huge fat losses lifting alone, what would be the best way to
> maximize fat loss by resistance training? It's my understanding that
> the whole "more lean mass means more fat burning" has been deflated
> here, so I'm just concentrating on the workout itself.
>
> Thanks as always for any tips.
>
Brian, you haven't been paying attention - prolly spent too much time
spouting your political vitriol. Fat loss is much more a function of diet
than any rep / % scheme. Lift to get strong, diet to get lean.
Jason Earl
> Brian Link wrote:
>> Yes, I know, the best exercise for fat loss is cardio, but I just
>> can't bring myself to it. Stair masters, ellipticals, bikes,
>> etc. Way too boring. The best I can do is a brisk 2 mile walk
>> around the lake every night.
>
> Brisk is good. :o)
>
> If you're no fan of cardio, what's your opinion on nutrition? Have
> you seen any of my mentions of The Abs Diet? Available online at
> http://theabsdiet.com/ or at your local Wal-Mart for a pittance. And
> if you read what Zinczenko has to say about aerobic exercise versus
> weight training I believe you'll be a happy camper. "Muscle eats
> fat," the author states enthusiastically.
>
> (Okay, those are just three words on paper, but I feel guilt-free
> characterizing those words as having been issued
> "enthusiastically.")
OK, that's like the 10th time I have seen you suggest "The Abs Diet"
(and no, I didn't google to see how many times you have actually
mentioned this book). I honestly thought you were kidding.
So what's the deal. I checked out the website and this is
representative of the sort of claims made.
Simply put, The Abs Diet is a scientifically proven food plan that
turns on your metabolic fat furnaces and puts the resulting energy
to work building muscle. Within 2 weeks, you'll lose up to 12
pounds of fat--from your belly first! From there, you'll convert
fat to muscle with a sensible exercise (30 minutes three times a
week) and eating (six meals a day!) plan that will give you your
best physique and keep you at optimal health for life. This is a
diet plan anyone can stick to: The portions are man-size, the
instructions are simple, and the results will be food that even
Archie Bunker would love!
This sort of ad copy rings my alarm bells, and it is not the worst of
it either. Heck, there are several places on the website where the
diet promises to "turn fat into muscle."
So what's the deal with this book?
Jason
Curt James
[...]
> OK, that's like the 10th time I have seen you suggest "The Abs Diet"
> (and no, I didn't google to see how many times you have actually
> mentioned this book).
Hmm...
(Googles)
"26 results for curt , abs diet"
...
I was curious.
> I honestly thought you were kidding.
No joke. :o)
> So what's the deal. I checked out the website and this is
> representative of the sort of claims made.
>
> Simply put, The Abs Diet is a scientifically proven food plan that
> turns on your metabolic fat furnaces and puts the resulting energy
> to work building muscle. Within 2 weeks, you'll lose up to 12
> pounds of fat--from your belly first! From there, you'll convert
> fat to muscle with a sensible exercise (30 minutes three times a
> week) and eating (six meals a day!) plan that will give you your
> best physique and keep you at optimal health for life. This is a
> diet plan anyone can stick to: The portions are man-size, the
> instructions are simple, and the results will be food that even
> Archie Bunker would love!
>
> This sort of ad copy rings my alarm bells, and it is not the worst of
> it either. Heck, there are several places on the website where the
> diet promises to "turn fat into muscle."
Some I'm sure would say it smacks of hucksterism, but I see it as an
entertaining style of writing. References to pop culture in Archie
Bunker, enthusiasm-building visual imagery in "fat furnaces" and, yes,
a BUY NOW! TODAY! directive in "you'll lose up to 12 pounds of
fat--from your belly first!" But the information is rock solid.
I know I'm a cheerleader for this book and, yes, biased, so check out
what Publishers Weekly has to say:
Eat everything. Concentrate on whole grains. Drink milk. Balance
protein with carbohydrates. Avoid processed sugars. Do some exercise.
The idea that a diet book making such proposals comes as a pleasant
surprise shows just how far afield we've gone in the search for new
ways to be fit. The only thing new about this diet by the
editor-in-chief of Men's Health is its name, and this, one can presume,
is because nowadays, a book simply called "Sensible Eating" wouldn't
sell. The book's title is indeed misleading; only the final chapter
deals solely with abs. The rest is full of rational recommendations for
a realistic diet plan: eat more and smaller meals; have oatmeal in the
morning for a nourishing breakfast; don't starve yourself; drink plenty
of water; and stay away from sodas and foods that contain high-fructose
corn syrup. Whether readers will, in the end, walk away with abs of
steel is not really the point. They'll control their weight in a
healthy way, without counting calories, cutting out whole food groups
or supporting the beef futures market. Best of all, this book tells
readers why it works: increase your body's metabolism, gain some muscle
and fat burns away. The authors make this seem like a fresh and very
attainable ideal.
/quote from
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1579549985/104-4021844-4537547?v=glance&n=283155
aka http://tinyurl.com/pmykv
The Amazon link or TinyURL link will take you to Amazon's Abs Diet page
which, along with book specifics, offers 146 customer reviews not all
of which are especially glowing, but that might dull your alarm bells a
bit.
> So what's the deal with this book?
It's Harley orange! What can I say?
Seriously, I was first introduced to the book courtesy of Amazing Abs,
a just-less-than-magazine-size book from Men's Health and the good
people at Rodale Inc.
Amazing Abs has much the same info as The Abs Diet but with a lot more
pictures. The cover screams "LOSE YOUR GUT! Exclusive! Abs Diet
Excerpt" and has a pic of a guy displaying a cover model six-pack.
I liked the humor and no-nonsense approach used in that book. Diet and
exercise plans, visually appealing with tons of pics of male and female
models demonstrating correct exercise performance. Amazing Abs is a
collection of bits and pieces of other Rodale books edited together in
a truly artful way, imo. Informative, attractive, accessible.
Enjoying that book piqued my interest in The Abs Diet. Fwiw, it's a New
York Times bestseller. It's written in an engaging manner,
straightforward, intelligent, and, yes, again, with humor. Early in the
book, the message "Changing the Way You Think About the Word Diet" is
offered as a headline. The book does just that. The writers say it
better than I ever could:
"For years - or maybe for all your life - you've probably had one
notion about what dieting needs to be. Restrict your foods, eat like a
supermodel, sweat on the treadmill, and you'll lose fat. In reality,
those could be the very reasons why you couldn't lose weight. It's why
you gained back what you lost. It's the reason why your steamboat
metabolism may have geared down to that of an anchored barge. It's why
you don't see much progress when you try new weight-loss programs. And
it's why the only real recipe many diet plans offer is a recipe for
pecan-encrusted failure."
That's some visual imagery. I like it. A lot. Yeah, it could probably
be boiled down to five or ten pages of text, but for ten bucks, this
book and its philosophy, imo, can't be beat.
And, yes, David Zinczenko (with Ted Spiker) has a good bit of P.T.
Barnum or carnival barker in him, but, imo, this book is not for
suckers*. Zinczenko's enthusiasm leaps from the page. Good information,
visually appealing, right price, and a motivational writing style all
equal a book I'm glad I purchased. Ymmv. ;o)
AGAIN, YMMV! HOWEVER ~*I*~ FOUND IT INTERESTING! :o)
I also picked up The Abs Diet Eat Right Every Time Guide which includes
789 of what the authors call the best on-the-go food choices. It's
offered as a complete supermarket survival guide and contains 60
six-minute meals for a six-pack.
> Jason
*bonus trivia wrt the suckers quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There's_a_sucker_born_every_minute
9 out of 10 small coteries of sycophants approve of this post.
--
Curt
http://curtjames.com/
Steve Freides
news:Uc6Fg.10328$kO3....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
This is a sensible approach, IMHO. It's not my first choice for myself,
that's all.
Bill Eitner
Just as kettlebell training isn't mine.
I'm with Pete when it comes to "cattlebells."
--
Jason Earl
> Jason Earl wrote:
> [...]
>
>> OK, that's like the 10th time I have seen you suggest "The Abs Diet"
>> (and no, I didn't google to see how many times you have actually
>> mentioned this book).
>
> Hmm...
>
> (Googles)
>
> "26 results for curt , abs diet"
>
> ...
>
> I was curious.
I'm basically never that curious. Unlike some folks around here, I am
more than happy to simply estimate, or even invent stuff on the spot.
If I am wrong (which seems to happen quite frequently) then someone
else is almost always willing to point that out.
In fact, it is quite possible that stating blatant mistruths on MFW is
the easiest form of research on the planet. All you have to do is say
something ridiculous and stand back and watch folks come out of the
wood work to correct your error :).
It's actually quite heartwarming.
>> I honestly thought you were kidding.
>
> No joke. :o)
Sometimes it is hard to tell.
>> So what's the deal. I checked out the website and this is
>> representative of the sort of claims made.
>>
>> Simply put, The Abs Diet is a scientifically proven food plan
>> that turns on your metabolic fat furnaces and puts the resulting
>> energy to work building muscle. Within 2 weeks, you'll lose up
>> to 12 pounds of fat--from your belly first! From there, you'll
>> convert fat to muscle with a sensible exercise (30 minutes three
>> times a week) and eating (six meals a day!) plan that will give
>> you your best physique and keep you at optimal health for
>> life. This is a diet plan anyone can stick to: The portions are
>> man-size, the instructions are simple, and the results will be
>> food that even Archie Bunker would love!
>>
>> This sort of ad copy rings my alarm bells, and it is not the worst
>> of it either. Heck, there are several places on the website where
>> the diet promises to "turn fat into muscle."
>
> Some I'm sure would say it smacks of hucksterism, but I see it as an
> entertaining style of writing. References to pop culture in Archie
> Bunker, enthusiasm-building visual imagery in "fat furnaces" and,
> yes, a BUY NOW! TODAY! directive in "you'll lose up to 12 pounds of
> fat--from your belly first!" But the information is rock solid.
If there is one thing that I have learned in my career it is that a
good product is worthless without marketing. I don't mind a little
hucksterism if the product isn't crap.
That's why I don't get hung up over Pavel's stuff either. This book
is at least far more reasonably priced.
> I know I'm a cheerleader for this book and, yes, biased, so check
> out what Publishers Weekly has to say:
Believe it or not, I trust you more that I trust Publisher's Weekly.
> Eat everything. Concentrate on whole grains. Drink milk. Balance
> protein with carbohydrates. Avoid processed sugars. Do some
> exercise. The idea that a diet book making such proposals comes as
> a pleasant surprise shows just how far afield we've gone in the
> search for new ways to be fit. The only thing new about this diet by
> the editor-in-chief of Men's Health is its name, and this, one can
> presume, is because nowadays, a book simply called "Sensible Eating"
> wouldn't sell. The book's title is indeed misleading; only the final
> chapter deals solely with abs. The rest is full of rational
> recommendations for a realistic diet plan: eat more and smaller
> meals; have oatmeal in the morning for a nourishing breakfast; don't
> starve yourself; drink plenty of water; and stay away from sodas and
> foods that contain high-fructose corn syrup. Whether readers will,
> in the end, walk away with abs of steel is not really the
> point. They'll control their weight in a healthy way, without
> counting calories, cutting out whole food groups or supporting the
> beef futures market. Best of all, this book tells readers why it
> works: increase your body's metabolism, gain some muscle and fat
> burns away. The authors make this seem like a fresh and very
> attainable ideal. /quote from
<snip long url>
> aka http://tinyurl.com/pmykv
OK, that makes a lot more sense. "The Abs Diet" title makes it sound
like a fad diet.
> The Amazon link or TinyURL link will take you to Amazon's Abs Diet
> page which, along with book specifics, offers 146 customer reviews
> not all of which are especially glowing, but that might dull your
> alarm bells a bit.
Yeah, the book sounds interesting. I did the 5-6 healthy meals a day
thing for a while, and there is no question that it works.
>> So what's the deal with this book?
>
> It's Harley orange! What can I say?
Is that what they call that color? I can never tell. The only color
names that I recognize are the 8 colors that came in the package of
fat Crayolas I had in the first grade. Don't talk to me of
periwinkle, sage, or ochre. I have no idea what they mean.
> Seriously, I was first introduced to the book courtesy of Amazing
> Abs, a just-less-than-magazine-size book from Men's Health and the
> good people at Rodale Inc.
I used to be a subscriber to Bicycling. I love the guys at Rodale.
> Amazing Abs has much the same info as The Abs Diet but with a lot
> more pictures. The cover screams "LOSE YOUR GUT! Exclusive! Abs Diet
> Excerpt" and has a pic of a guy displaying a cover model six-pack.
>
> I liked the humor and no-nonsense approach used in that book. Diet
> and exercise plans, visually appealing with tons of pics of male and
> female models demonstrating correct exercise performance. Amazing
> Abs is a collection of bits and pieces of other Rodale books edited
> together in a truly artful way, imo. Informative, attractive,
> accessible.
Sounds interesting.
> Enjoying that book piqued my interest in The Abs Diet. Fwiw, it's a
> New York Times bestseller. It's written in an engaging manner,
> straightforward, intelligent, and, yes, again, with humor. Early in
> the book, the message "Changing the Way You Think About the Word
> Diet" is offered as a headline. The book does just that. The writers
> say it better than I ever could:
>
> "For years - or maybe for all your life - you've probably had one
> notion about what dieting needs to be. Restrict your foods, eat like
> a supermodel, sweat on the treadmill, and you'll lose fat. In
> reality, those could be the very reasons why you couldn't lose
> weight. It's why you gained back what you lost. It's the reason why
> your steamboat metabolism may have geared down to that of an
> anchored barge. It's why you don't see much progress when you try
> new weight-loss programs. And it's why the only real recipe many
> diet plans offer is a recipe for pecan-encrusted failure."
Pecan encrusted failure sounds nice. I love Pecans.
> That's some visual imagery. I like it. A lot. Yeah, it could
> probably be boiled down to five or ten pages of text, but for ten
> bucks, this book and its philosophy, imo, can't be beat.
Hey, I like to read.
> And, yes, David Zinczenko (with Ted Spiker) has a good bit of P.T.
> Barnum or carnival barker in him, but, imo, this book is not for
> suckers*. Zinczenko's enthusiasm leaps from the page. Good
> information, visually appealing, right price, and a motivational
> writing style all equal a book I'm glad I purchased. Ymmv. ;o)
Once again, I don't have any problems with hucksterism as long as the
information is decent.
> AGAIN, YMMV! HOWEVER ~*I*~ FOUND IT INTERESTING! :o)
>
> I also picked up The Abs Diet Eat Right Every Time Guide which
> includes 789 of what the authors call the best on-the-go food
> choices. It's offered as a complete supermarket survival guide and
> contains 60 six-minute meals for a six-pack.
That actually sounds useful. I don't eat 6 times a day, and I don't
plan on eating that way for some time, but nutritious foods that you
can eat on the go is always a bonus.
>> Jason
>
> *bonus trivia wrt the suckers quote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There's_a_sucker_born_every_minute
>
> 9 out of 10 small coteries of sycophants approve of this post.
Nice ending, well done.
Jason
Jason Earl
> Jason Earl <je...@xmission.com> wrote:
>> If there is one thing that I have learned in my career it is that a
>> good product is worthless without marketing.
>
> that reminded me of this in a bizarre opposite sort of way -
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/15/science/15math.html?ei=5070&en=2c56676c791ddd1f&ex=1156305600&emc=eta1&pagewanted=all
Yeah, it would appear that academics are somewhat of a special case
:).
Jason
Peter K.
"Brian Link" <bl...@visi.com> wrote:
> Yes, I know, the best exercise for fat loss is cardio, but I just
> can't bring myself to it. Stair masters, ellipticals, bikes, etc. Way
> too boring. The best I can do is a brisk 2 mile walk around the lake
> every night.
Do you have any type of landmark that surrounds the lake at regular
intervals? The reason I ask is that I've had very good results with walking
two miles at a very brisk pace with an all out sprint thrown in at regular
intervals. Basically I act like I'm being chased by a pissed off bear for
about 200m and then return to walking. I do this about four times for every
mile I cover at regular intervals. If you don't have a reliable distance
indicator you could always go with a stopwatch and bolt 30 seconds and then
walk briskly for a couple of minutes or something to that effect.
I think I've heard this referred to as HIIT (High Intensity Interval
Training) but I'm not sure that I'm working hard enough to be considered in
that category. Thanks to the army (any my stupidity for not going into the
air force) I can no longer run any appreciable distance without my knees
acting up. Squats and deads are no problem though.
> On the other hand, I love lifting. So, accepting that I'm not gonna
> see huge fat losses lifting alone, what would be the best way to
> maximize fat loss by resistance training? It's my understanding that
> the whole "more lean mass means more fat burning" has been deflated
> here, so I'm just concentrating on the workout itself.
>
> Thanks as always for any tips.
I can't help you here except to say keep lifting. As an anecdote I do a 5x5
workout in addition to the walk/run routine above. Squats, deadlifts,
dumbbell military press, weighted dips, weighted pullups, weighted chinups
with each exercise performed once a week using five sets of five reps. I
normally spread these among two or three workout days. This week I'm lifting
with a 60 second rest in between each set and by the time the fifth set has
arrive if I'm not at failure I'm damned close. It works for me (for now).
PK
dan...@esc.net.au
Jen
"Peter K." <bitb...@dev.null> wrote in message
news:C10CC3C6.551E%bitb...@dev.null...
What's the difference between dips, pull-ups, and chin-ups?
Jen
Brian Link
Well, watching current events on a daily basis has some thermogenic
properties for me..
Yes, I'm eating at a calorie deficit. My "resting metabolism" burns
2500 cals a day, if the trainer-tots can be believed. I shoot for 2000
a day or slightly less. 2200/2300 is a good level I can maintain
without pain. I'll send you my spread sheet, if you like.
I'd like to accelerate the fat loss without simultaneously losing what
lean mass I have. I see my wife and her friends exulting over the loss
of sheer poundage, and given their routines and diet I just figure
they're losing lean mass. They wonder why their dress sizes don't keep
collapsing with all those pounds they're taking off.
Bill Eitner
So would I and so would others, but we all know
the consequences. It sounds like you understand
the program. Create a 500 calorie per day deficit
(a pound a week weight loss), mass train to spare
muscle, don't skimp on the protein, and stay the
course until you arrive. If you want to try to
push it a bit, you can employ a low-carb diet,
low-rest training, and wind sprints during your
walks around the lake. Those options are especially
useful when one has quite a bit of fat to lose.
In that situation you can bump the weight loss
up to say 2 pounds a week for awhile and still
not lose too much lean mass. But still, as hard
as it is to build muscle, you have to ask yourself
what the rush is and think it through.
> I see my wife and her friends exulting over the loss
> of sheer poundage, and given their routines and diet I just figure
> they're losing lean mass. They wonder why their dress sizes don't keep
> collapsing with all those pounds they're taking off.
It sounds like you're feeling some angst. You
know what's best, but you're being tempted by
the short term gratification of fast scale weight
loss. You need to get your goals and values
straight in your mind. Something else that
might be helpful would be to focus on measures
of progress other than scale weight.
--
Steve Freides
news:8764gqr...@workhorse.earlhome...
This is know on the DragonDoor forum as the "what the heck" effect.
Welcome to the Party, Comrade!
:)
> You could probably swing and snatch a dumbbell instead, but kbells are
> more fun. I certainly am glad that I took Steve's advice and picked
> one up.
It is not the same. (I know you know that.) Close in some ways, not so
close in others. Whether the difference is important to you depends on
your goals. A traditional snatch is done either "dead" from the floor
or from hang, both of which are possible with a kettlebell and good
movements, but the basic kb snatch is the swing style, and swings are
where the kb and the db really differ.
I'm just back from serving as an assistant instructor at an RKC
instructor certification weekend - a full report at some point in the
next few days, perhaps.
Jason Earl
Thanks. I feel like I have honestly been given an extra couple of
hours per week. I liked the feeling that I got from running, but I
didn't like running. I like it even less now that I typically work
out with my children. They can't keep up with me when I run, but they
like counting reps when I do swings or snatches. When it is their
turn they do deadlifts with the bell.
I've considered getting lighter bells for my wife and kids, but I
think Zac would likely kill someone if he had a bell that he could
swing. That boy is too fearless for his own good.
>> You could probably swing and snatch a dumbbell instead, but kbells
>> are more fun. I certainly am glad that I took Steve's advice and
>> picked one up.
>
> It is not the same. (I know you know that.) Close in some ways,
> not so close in others. Whether the difference is important to you
> depends on your goals. A traditional snatch is done either "dead"
> from the floor or from hang, both of which are possible with a
> kettlebell and good movements, but the basic kb snatch is the swing
> style, and swings are where the kb and the db really differ.
The real problem is that dumbbells are just too wide to safely swing
between your legs, and the handle is too narrow for two hands and too
awkward for switching hands in mid air. Dumbbell snatches are nice,
especially if you like the classic snatch where the weight stays close
to the body. I think that swing snatches are easier, and you don't
bend your elbow so you aren't tempted to turn it into some sort of
upright row variant.
The more I use my kbell the more I am convinced that it really is
somewhat magical and it isn't just an expensive gimmick. I mostly
purchased it for aesthetic reasons (I thought it would look good in my
office), but I'm becoming more of a believer all the time. I think
that you would be hard pressed to come up with a better "assistance"
exercise than the kbell snatch.
I have switched back to dumbbells for overhead presses though. The
kbell is easier to press (you can safely leave your hand wide open as
an example), but my 24kg kbell is just not heavy enough. I still warm
up at the start of my kettlebell practice with a set of 5 overhead
presses, but it's just a warmup. The only other "kettlebell"
non-ballistic kbell drill I do is the windmill. I don't know if it
helps anything, but it's a nice stretch, and it freaks out my
co-workers.
Oh, I also do the occasional halo, but I don't know where that fits
in...
> I'm just back from serving as an assistant instructor at an RKC
> instructor certification weekend - a full report at some point in
> the next few days, perhaps.
I'd certainly like to hear about it.
Jason
Steve Freides
They come in all sorts of small sizes now - 4, 6, 8 kg that are rubber
coated. Don't know what age/size your kids are. My kids did a kb
competition in 2003 along with me and my wife. My youngest was 6 years
old then and he used 4 kg bells, and my oldest, who was 10, used 12 kg.
>>> You could probably swing and snatch a dumbbell instead, but kbells
>>> are more fun. I certainly am glad that I took Steve's advice and
>>> picked one up.
>>
>> It is not the same. (I know you know that.) Close in some ways,
>> not so close in others. Whether the difference is important to you
>> depends on your goals. A traditional snatch is done either "dead"
>> from the floor or from hang, both of which are possible with a
>> kettlebell and good movements, but the basic kb snatch is the swing
>> style, and swings are where the kb and the db really differ.
>
> The real problem is that dumbbells are just too wide to safely swing
> between your legs, and the handle is too narrow for two hands and too
> awkward for switching hands in mid air. Dumbbell snatches are nice,
> especially if you like the classic snatch where the weight stays close
> to the body. I think that swing snatches are easier, and you don't
> bend your elbow so you aren't tempted to turn it into some sort of
> upright row variant.
You actually do bend the elbow doing kb snatches, at least most folks
do, and they are now teaching a kb-specific high pull as a learning tool
along the way to mastering the snatch. But, having said that, you're
really right. The elbow bend is completely different - it's still
basically a swing but you "tame the arc" to keep it closer to your body
in the interest of efficiency. At least you can do that, and most do.
My point is that you're just slightly redirecting the force, which comes
from hip snap and not elbow/trap pull. Some do train dead and hang
snatches with kettebells - they very much resemble the dumbbell versions
IMHO.
> The more I use my kbell the more I am convinced that it really is
> somewhat magical and it isn't just an expensive gimmick.
I won't argue with you there. FWIW, I've been counting on the "magic"
factor to help me DL a new PR in December. I quit DL'ing a couple of
months ago and won't pick it up again for another couple of months. My
substitute is the kb snatch for high reps, which for me means a 1-3 sets
of 20-30 reps each side with a 24 kg, done towards the end of my
workout. I've done this before and it's worked out for me well, but as
my 1RM gets higher, I'm not sure if it's going to keep working.
> I mostly
> purchased it for aesthetic reasons (I thought it would look good in my
> office), but I'm becoming more of a believer all the time. I think
> that you would be hard pressed to come up with a better "assistance"
> exercise than the kbell snatch.
>
> I have switched back to dumbbells for overhead presses though. The
> kbell is easier to press (you can safely leave your hand wide open as
> an example), but my 24kg kbell is just not heavy enough. I still warm
> up at the start of my kettlebell practice with a set of 5 overhead
> presses, but it's just a warmup. The only other "kettlebell"
> non-ballistic kbell drill I do is the windmill. I don't know if it
> helps anything, but it's a nice stretch, and it freaks out my
> co-workers.
All you need is a heavier kettlebell - problem solved. What sort of
weight are you using for dumbbell presses, and what sort of press are
you doing?
> Oh, I also do the occasional halo, but I don't know where that fits
> in...
That's a very cool drill that's only a recent addition for me. I tend
to do them with a light weight as a warmup or cooldown.
>> I'm just back from serving as an assistant instructor at an RKC
>> instructor certification weekend - a full report at some point in
>> the next few days, perhaps.
>
> I'd certainly like to hear about it.
One story - I watched a professional handball player from Slovenia who
weighs around 90 kg (200 lbs.) at 6'3" or so, clean and press a 48 kg
kettlebell while standing on one foot - he broke a bone in his foot a
few days ago and was in a cast up to his knee. One-legged clean,
one-legged press, 106 lbs. - pretty awesome. The kettlebell looked like
a slightly smaller basketball.
> Jason
Jason Earl
My kids are 7, 5, and 3 (girl, boy, girl). The two oldest are the
ones that practice with me. Now that I think about it Zac is plenty
respectful of my other weights. If I left the kbells in my "fort" so
that he didn't play with it when he was unsupervised I think some
smaller kbells for the wife and kids might just work.
It's possible that I am just doing kb snatches wrong. My arm stays
pretty straight. On second thought. I just watched the 24kg Snatch x
20-20 video on your site, and your elbow doesn't bend much either.
Thanks for the video, by the way.
>> The more I use my kbell the more I am convinced that it really is
>> somewhat magical and it isn't just an expensive gimmick.
>
> I won't argue with you there. FWIW, I've been counting on the
> "magic" factor to help me DL a new PR in December. I quit DL'ing a
> couple of months ago and won't pick it up again for another couple
> of months. My substitute is the kb snatch for high reps, which for
> me means a 1-3 sets of 20-30 reps each side with a 24 kg, done
> towards the end of my workout. I've done this before and it's
> worked out for me well, but as my 1RM gets higher, I'm not sure if
> it's going to keep working.
Yikes. 1-3 sets with 20-30 reps each side! That's a lot of snatches.
I'm pretty sure I can't do 30 reps with one hand for a single set,
much less multiple sets.
I would never have guessed that high volume kbell snatches would be
good preparation for max deadlift attempts. That sounds ridiculously
counterintuitive.
>> I mostly purchased it for aesthetic reasons (I thought it would
>> look good in my office), but I'm becoming more of a believer all
>> the time. I think that you would be hard pressed to come up with a
>> better "assistance" exercise than the kbell snatch.
>>
>> I have switched back to dumbbells for overhead presses though. The
>> kbell is easier to press (you can safely leave your hand wide open
>> as an example), but my 24kg kbell is just not heavy enough. I
>> still warm up at the start of my kettlebell practice with a set of
>> 5 overhead presses, but it's just a warmup. The only other
>> "kettlebell" non-ballistic kbell drill I do is the windmill. I
>> don't know if it helps anything, but it's a nice stretch, and it
>> freaks out my co-workers.
>
> All you need is a heavier kettlebell - problem solved. What sort of
> weight are you using for dumbbell presses, and what sort of press
> are you doing?
One armed military press. I've tried the bent press and the side
press, but I can't tell them apart :). I am currently doing sets of 3
with 65 pounds. This trick isn't part of my PTTP workout, but is just
something I do when I walk past the dumbbell. Usually I do it once or
twice a day. I usually follow it with a set of pullups.
Now, theoretically I could get a 32kg kbell (and a 40kg bell while I
am at it), but I just don't think that the kbells are quire as magical
for overhead presses. They are easier to press, without doubt, but
they are also far more expensive.
>> Oh, I also do the occasional halo, but I don't know where that fits
>> in...
>
> That's a very cool drill that's only a recent addition for me. I
> tend to do them with a light weight as a warmup or cooldown.
You're the one that shared the drill with me. I like it. I tend to
do it as a warmup. It's too difficult for me with a 24kg bell after I
have done snatches.
>>> I'm just back from serving as an assistant instructor at an RKC
>>> instructor certification weekend - a full report at some point in
>>> the next few days, perhaps.
>>
>> I'd certainly like to hear about it.
>
> One story - I watched a professional handball player from Slovenia
> who weighs around 90 kg (200 lbs.) at 6'3" or so, clean and press a
> 48 kg kettlebell while standing on one foot - he broke a bone in his
> foot a few days ago and was in a cast up to his knee. One-legged
> clean, one-legged press, 106 lbs. - pretty awesome. The kettlebell
> looked like a slightly smaller basketball.
Stories like that make me want to eat my liver. In a good way...
Jason
oregonchick
"Jen" <anyo...@SPAMbigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:LLTFg.14862
> What's the difference between dips, pull-ups, and chin-ups?
>
> Jen
A dip is a tricep exercise. You are hanging onto handles at your waist
level and "dipping" your body weight down and up with triceps. Pull up is
an overhanded version of the chinup...
Curt James
> "Jen"wrote
> > What's the difference between dips, pull-ups, and chin-ups?
> >
> > Jen
>
> A dip is a tricep exercise. You are hanging onto handles at
> your waist level and "dipping" your body weight down and up
> with triceps.
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/ASTriDip.html
> Pull up is an overhanded version of the chinup...
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/LatissimusDorsi/AsPullup.html
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/LatissimusDorsi/AsUnderhandChinup.html
--
Curt
Jen
"Curt James" <curt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1156227570.9...@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
Thanks. I did actually know them, just couldn't picture them.
Curt James
> "Curt James" wrote
> > oregonchick wrote:
> >> "Jen"wrote
> >> > What's the difference between dips, pull-ups, and chin-ups?
> >>
> >> your waist level and "dipping" your body weight down and up
> >> with triceps.
> >
> > http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/ASTriDip.html
> >
> >> Pull up is an overhanded version of the chinup...
> >
> > http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/LatissimusDorsi/AsPullup.html
> > http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/LatissimusDorsi/AsUnderhandChinup.html
>
> Thanks. I did actually know them, just couldn't picture them.
Cool.
(looks at clock)
It's almost 3 a.m. here.
This is my huge problem with extended periods of time off.
...
If I have no reason to get up early in the a.m. Say, oh, I don't know,
WORK! I tend to stay up until the wee hours of the morning. Grrr.
Recuperation and rest are as important as the exercise and diet part,
right? I keep telling myself just that.
Ahem.
By way of trivia.
Hmm. And, speaking of trivia, Snakes on a Plane kicked some major
booty. More comedy than anything else, but good stuff. Fun.
Not for the kiddies due to nudity and language and disturbing images
and animal cruelty and... never mind. This is a HORRIBLE film.
The @#$%er #@%^&ing quote by Samuel L. Jackson, though, is worth the
cost of admission, imo.
--
Curt
Steve Freides
Ah, OK, here's what you need to know. In martial arts, there is usually
a distinction made between internal and external styles, the former
often called "soft" and the latter "hard." A hard style martial art is
one where at the beginning you focus on being really tough/tight/strong,
and as you improve, you learn to turn the tension on and off more, when
to relax, etc. Tae Kwon Do is an example of a hard style martial art -
I studied that for two years and got about halfway to a black belt.
A soft or internal style is usually started with standing meditation
practice and walking, and gradually evolves into something that could
hurt someone. That old David Carradine TV series, Kung Fu, is about an
internal style. Some internal styles do just the soft parts and don't
become "martial", like the Tai Chi classes you see around.
The snatches you see me doing in the 20+20 video are from a few years
ago and in the hard style of kb lifting. That's what we teach everyone
first, it's what I learned first, and I feel it's the right way to
start - the weight is heavy enough cause injury with improper technique,
and you want to master the hard style before trying it another way
unless you're willing to use a very light weight.
If you look at the very next link on the home page, the 20-15-10-5
snatch video, that's in the soft or Girevoy Sport style. My technique
is far from perfect but you will clearly get the difference - the effort
is only what's required, the bell sort of wraps around the hand at the
top, and the pace is slower. That's what I do now almost exclusively
because I still hope to do some more GS competitions, and that's what
you need if you expect to do 5 minutes each arm non-stop, which is what
you strive for in competition - you're given 10:00 and allowed only a
single arm switch, and you never put the bell down.
> Thanks for the video, by the way.
No problemo, dude.
>>> The more I use my kbell the more I am convinced that it really is
>>> somewhat magical and it isn't just an expensive gimmick.
>>
>> I won't argue with you there. FWIW, I've been counting on the
>> "magic" factor to help me DL a new PR in December. I quit DL'ing a
>> couple of months ago and won't pick it up again for another couple
>> of months. My substitute is the kb snatch for high reps, which for
>> me means a 1-3 sets of 20-30 reps each side with a 24 kg, done
>> towards the end of my workout. I've done this before and it's
>> worked out for me well, but as my 1RM gets higher, I'm not sure if
>> it's going to keep working.
>
> Yikes. 1-3 sets with 20-30 reps each side! That's a lot of snatches.
> I'm pretty sure I can't do 30 reps with one hand for a single set,
> much less multiple sets.
>
> I would never have guessed that high volume kbell snatches would be
> good preparation for max deadlift attempts. That sounds ridiculously
> counterintuitive.
There is nothing DL-specific in kb snatches, but both are exercises that
focus on the "posterior chain" and I think that's why it works for me.
My lower back is always pleasantly tight after a set of kb snatches, and
I could say the same thing about a set of DL's. Same thing goes for
glutes and hamstrings - lots of work for both in either movement. It is
possible, if you don't take advantage of the swing to really load the
posterior chain and do more of a hang snatch, to not have the focus be
quite so much on the posterior chain and get more quad involvement, but
that's not the way I do them. I make an effort, with each snatch rep,
to think of the back swing like I'm a center in American football, and I
"hike" the kettlebell.
>>> I mostly purchased it for aesthetic reasons (I thought it would
>>> look good in my office), but I'm becoming more of a believer all
>>> the time. I think that you would be hard pressed to come up with a
>>> better "assistance" exercise than the kbell snatch.
>>>
>>> I have switched back to dumbbells for overhead presses though. The
>>> kbell is easier to press (you can safely leave your hand wide open
>>> as an example), but my 24kg kbell is just not heavy enough. I
>>> still warm up at the start of my kettlebell practice with a set of
>>> 5 overhead presses, but it's just a warmup. The only other
>>> "kettlebell" non-ballistic kbell drill I do is the windmill. I
>>> don't know if it helps anything, but it's a nice stretch, and it
>>> freaks out my co-workers.
>>
>> All you need is a heavier kettlebell - problem solved. What sort of
>> weight are you using for dumbbell presses, and what sort of press
>> are you doing?
>
> One armed military press. I've tried the bent press and the side
> press, but I can't tell them apart :). I am currently doing sets of 3
> with 65 pounds. This trick isn't part of my PTTP workout, but is just
> something I do when I walk past the dumbbell. Usually I do it once or
> twice a day. I usually follow it with a set of pullups.
>
> Now, theoretically I could get a 32kg kbell (and a 40kg bell while I
> am at it), but I just don't think that the kbells are quire as magical
> for overhead presses. They are easier to press, without doubt, but
> they are also far more expensive.
OK. A guy your size would eventually have fun snatching the 32 kg
kettlebell for reps. I've managed about 15 reps each hand with it
without training specifically for that, and in competitions, that's
what's used, even for guys lighter than me, until you get to Masters at
age 40. The numbers put up by guy who weigh only 60 kg (132 lbs.) with
a 32 kg are pretty amazing - they don't actually go up all that much as
bodyweight increases. And all sizes of human have to perform jerks for
reps with two 32 kg kettlebells, which is the case of the 60 kg. guys is
more than their bodyweight. The snatch record is 71 each hand in the
space of 10:00 for the 60 kg bodyweight class.
But, hey, whatever works for you is cool.
>>> Oh, I also do the occasional halo, but I don't know where that fits
>>> in...
>>
>> That's a very cool drill that's only a recent addition for me. I
>> tend to do them with a light weight as a warmup or cooldown.
>
> You're the one that shared the drill with me. I like it. I tend to
> do it as a warmup. It's too difficult for me with a 24kg bell after I
> have done snatches.
As you're doing it sounds fine to me. I do it with a 24 sometimes as
well, it's just that, as I'm sure you well know, there's a limit to how
many things you can do, so I chose to work on this one pretty rarely.
>>>> I'm just back from serving as an assistant instructor at an RKC
>>>> instructor certification weekend - a full report at some point in
>>>> the next few days, perhaps.
>>>
>>> I'd certainly like to hear about it.
>>
>> One story - I watched a professional handball player from Slovenia
>> who weighs around 90 kg (200 lbs.) at 6'3" or so, clean and press a
>> 48 kg kettlebell while standing on one foot - he broke a bone in his
>> foot a few days ago and was in a cast up to his knee. One-legged
>> clean, one-legged press, 106 lbs. - pretty awesome. The kettlebell
>> looked like a slightly smaller basketball.
>
> Stories like that make me want to eat my liver. In a good way...
It was a great weekend. The above-mentioned person was scheduled to
come as an assistant instructor, and they asked me to take his place
after he got hurt, but he came, anyway, well above and beyond the call
of duty. I helped carry around a chair for him and the like. He also
did 38 snatches each hand with a 24 kg while seated in a chair - I
wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. If you want to find a
way to make your kettlebell snatches harder, trying sitting in a chair
with one leg stretched straight out in front of you. I did a couple of
reps each side, just barely, just to experience how hard it was to do.
> Jason
Jason Earl
> "Jason Earl" <je...@xmission.com> wrote in message
> news:8764glp...@workhorse.earlhome...
>> "Steve Freides" <st...@fridayscomputer.com> writes:
<big snip>
>> It's possible that I am just doing kb snatches wrong. My arm stays
>> pretty straight. On second thought. I just watched the 24kg
>> Snatch x 20-20 video on your site, and your elbow doesn't bend much
>> either.
>
> Ah, OK, here's what you need to know. In martial arts, there is
> usually a distinction made between internal and external styles, the
> former often called "soft" and the latter "hard." A hard style
> martial art is one where at the beginning you focus on being really
> tough/tight/strong, and as you improve, you learn to turn the
> tension on and off more, when to relax, etc. Tae Kwon Do is an
> example of a hard style martial art - I studied that for two years
> and got about halfway to a black belt.
I'll pretend that I know what you are talking about in the hopes that
it becomes clearer later on. Just imagine me nodding my head a lot.
> A soft or internal style is usually started with standing meditation
> practice and walking, and gradually evolves into something that
> could hurt someone. That old David Carradine TV series, Kung Fu, is
> about an internal style. Some internal styles do just the soft
> parts and don't become "martial", like the Tai Chi classes you see
> around.
Some sort of "grasshopper" joke would go well here. I do appreciate
the instruction, but I'm pretty sure that a sensei 70 pounds lighter
than me would have to come up with a somewhat more appropriate
nickname.
> The snatches you see me doing in the 20+20 video are from a few
> years ago and in the hard style of kb lifting. That's what we teach
> everyone first, it's what I learned first, and I feel it's the right
> way to start - the weight is heavy enough cause injury with improper
> technique, and you want to master the hard style before trying it
> another way unless you're willing to use a very light weight.
And the light dawns. I took a look at your other kb snatch video, but
the thing is like seven minutes long, it only shows from the shoulders
up, and the light isn't so good. So I didn't pay as much attention to
it.
> If you look at the very next link on the home page, the 20-15-10-5
> snatch video, that's in the soft or Girevoy Sport style. My
> technique is far from perfect but you will clearly get the
> difference - the effort is only what's required, the bell sort of
> wraps around the hand at the top, and the pace is slower. That's
> what I do now almost exclusively because I still hope to do some
> more GS competitions, and that's what you need if you expect to do 5
> minutes each arm non-stop, which is what you strive for in
> competition - you're given 10:00 and allowed only a single arm
> switch, and you never put the bell down.
I can see the difference. Although I would really like to see how you
catch the bell at the bottom and swing it back up. I'll have to
experiment a bit.
I tried 10:00 minutes of kbell snatches, and there is no question that
it becomes a completely different ordeal. Of course, I switched hands
whenever I felt like it (I didn't know the official rules), and I also
put the bell down (a lot).
>> Thanks for the video, by the way.
>
> No problemo, dude.
They really are helpful.
<snip explanation of deadlift preparation>
>> Yikes. 1-3 sets with 20-30 reps each side! That's a lot of
>> snatches. I'm pretty sure I can't do 30 reps with one hand for a
>> single set, much less multiple sets.
>>
>> I would never have guessed that high volume kbell snatches would be
>> good preparation for max deadlift attempts. That sounds
>> ridiculously counterintuitive.
>
> There is nothing DL-specific in kb snatches, but both are exercises
> that focus on the "posterior chain" and I think that's why it works
> for me. My lower back is always pleasantly tight after a set of kb
> snatches, and I could say the same thing about a set of DL's. Same
> thing goes for glutes and hamstrings - lots of work for both in
> either movement. It is possible, if you don't take advantage of the
> swing to really load the posterior chain and do more of a hang
> snatch, to not have the focus be quite so much on the posterior
> chain and get more quad involvement, but that's not the way I do
> them. I make an effort, with each snatch rep, to think of the back
> swing like I'm a center in American football, and I "hike" the
> kettlebell.
I certainly feel the same sort of tightness after kb snatches (or
swings) and deadlifts, but the weight used certainly isn't similar. I
try and be explosive with the kb stuff, and there is simply no way to
be explosive when deadlifting.
I'll take your word for it that it works though. You are clearly more
experienced and capable than I am. The good news is that I have been
doing kb work since I got my bell and I was going to continue to do kb
work either way. Now I can tell myself that Steve says that kb
snatches are an effective way to improve the deadlift.
<snip bit about pressing kbells>
>> One armed military press. I've tried the bent press and the side
>> press, but I can't tell them apart :). I am currently doing sets
>> of 3 with 65 pounds. This trick isn't part of my PTTP workout, but
>> is just something I do when I walk past the dumbbell. Usually I do
>> it once or twice a day. I usually follow it with a set of pullups.
>>
>> Now, theoretically I could get a 32kg kbell (and a 40kg bell while
>> I am at it), but I just don't think that the kbells are quire as
>> magical for overhead presses. They are easier to press, without
>> doubt, but they are also far more expensive.
>
> OK. A guy your size would eventually have fun snatching the 32 kg
> kettlebell for reps. I've managed about 15 reps each hand with it
> without training specifically for that, and in competitions, that's
> what's used, even for guys lighter than me, until you get to Masters
> at age 40. The numbers put up by guy who weigh only 60 kg (132
> lbs.) with a 32 kg are pretty amazing - they don't actually go up
> all that much as bodyweight increases. And all sizes of human have
> to perform jerks for reps with two 32 kg kettlebells, which is the
> case of the 60 kg. guys is more than their bodyweight. The snatch
> record is 71 each hand in the space of 10:00 for the 60 kg
> bodyweight class.
>
> But, hey, whatever works for you is cool.
Hold on there Steve. I never said I wasn't going to get a 32kg bell.
In fact I hope some day to own a 40kg bell as well. I just think that
in the snatch and swing that I still have plenty of mileage left in my
24kg bell. In the overhead press, on the other hand, 24kg is not
enough.
The whole Girevoy thing is a totally insane sport. Just the idea of
holding onto a 32kg bell for 10 minutes makes my eyes want to bleed.
<snip bit about halo>
>> You're the one that shared the drill with me. I like it. I tend
>> to do it as a warmup. It's too difficult for me with a 24kg bell
>> after I have done snatches.
>
> As you're doing it sounds fine to me. I do it with a 24 sometimes
> as well, it's just that, as I'm sure you well know, there's a limit
> to how many things you can do, so I chose to work on this one pretty
> rarely.
I do halos about once or twice a week. My basic plan is to get in a
certain amount of reps with the kettlebell during my workday
(currently 120) and halos are a nice way to get in 8-10 reps without
getting my heart to race.
As of now the kbell stuff is auxiliary to my actual workout which is a
standard fair PTTP. My primary goal is to make my deadlift go up.
Near the end of the week I sometimes start to feel a little strained,
and when that happens I cut back on the kettlebell drills.
>>>>> I'm just back from serving as an assistant instructor at an RKC
>>>>> instructor certification weekend - a full report at some point
>>>>> in the next few days, perhaps.
>>>>
>>>> I'd certainly like to hear about it.
>>>
>>> One story - I watched a professional handball player from Slovenia
>>> who weighs around 90 kg (200 lbs.) at 6'3" or so, clean and press
>>> a 48 kg kettlebell while standing on one foot - he broke a bone in
>>> his foot a few days ago and was in a cast up to his knee.
>>> One-legged clean, one-legged press, 106 lbs. - pretty awesome.
>>> The kettlebell looked like a slightly smaller basketball.
>>
>> Stories like that make me want to eat my liver. In a good way...
>
> It was a great weekend. The above-mentioned person was scheduled to
> come as an assistant instructor, and they asked me to take his place
> after he got hurt, but he came, anyway, well above and beyond the
> call of duty. I helped carry around a chair for him and the like.
> He also did 38 snatches each hand with a 24 kg while seated in a
> chair - I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. If you
> want to find a way to make your kettlebell snatches harder, trying
> sitting in a chair with one leg stretched straight out in front of
> you. I did a couple of reps each side, just barely, just to
> experience how hard it was to do.
It would seem that one of the advantages of these little get togethers
would be that you get to hang out with people who are just freaky
strong. Unfortunately for me lots of people are way stronger than I
am at this point :(.
Once again, thanks very much for the advice.
Jason
Steve Freides
-more snippage-
> And the light dawns. I took a look at your other kb snatch video, but
> the thing is like seven minutes long, it only shows from the shoulders
> up, and the light isn't so good. So I didn't pay as much attention to
> it.
>
>> If you look at the very next link on the home page, the 20-15-10-5
>> snatch video, that's in the soft or Girevoy Sport style. My
>> technique is far from perfect but you will clearly get the
>> difference - the effort is only what's required, the bell sort of
>> wraps around the hand at the top, and the pace is slower. That's
>> what I do now almost exclusively because I still hope to do some
>> more GS competitions, and that's what you need if you expect to do 5
>> minutes each arm non-stop, which is what you strive for in
>> competition - you're given 10:00 and allowed only a single arm
>> switch, and you never put the bell down.
>
> I can see the difference. Although I would really like to see how you
> catch the bell at the bottom and swing it back up. I'll have to
> experiment a bit.
I'll see if I can put up a better video, and better technique as well,
some time soon. That was the only place I could find to rest the
camera. I had a tripod but I lost a piece of it <sigh>.
> I tried 10:00 minutes of kbell snatches, and there is no question that
> it becomes a completely different ordeal. Of course, I switched hands
> whenever I felt like it (I didn't know the official rules), and I also
> put the bell down (a lot).
>
>>> Thanks for the video, by the way.
>>
>> No problemo, dude.
>
> They really are helpful.
Try http://www.girevoysport.ru and look at some of the videos - there
are plenty of example of performances from the world championships.
Just like in PL, all sorts of different body types and styles.
You can take my word that it works for me but that's as far as it should
go. This stuff gets highly personal at some point, and what works for
me may not work for most other people. For me, my particular build,
injury history, strengths and weaknesses, it has been a good thing to
date, but I don't know if that will continue.
All good.
> The whole Girevoy thing is a totally insane sport. Just the idea of
> holding onto a 32kg bell for 10 minutes makes my eyes want to bleed.
Yeah, there is a big mental component to being successful at this.
You are more than strong enough to try such a weekend should you wish.
Go online and read the reviews - almost everyone says it is the best
instruction in the area of strength and conditioning they've ever
received, and I'm happy to report that, while it was great when I first
did it 3 years ago, it has reached a whole other level now. The
approach is now refered to as a system for learning how to move your
body, and the kettlebell is just the tool. Tons of stuff applicable to
many areas of physical endeavor including PL, Olympic lifting,
flexibility, joint health, martial arts and/or fighting, etc. I was
fascinated to see this weekend's group consisted overwhelmingly of
martial artists and mil/leo's (military people or those in law
enforcement) - no one in the group who had competed in a PL meet, which
is unusual for the stateside RKC weekends. But quite a few "plain
folks" as well, including several who attended for their own edification
and elected not to be tested, some who make their livings in other
fields who have been training with kb's for a while and hope to move
into training, and several strength and conditioning coaches, too.
> Once again, thanks very much for the advice.
Hey, no problem at all.
> Jason
Jason Earl
> "Jason Earl" <je...@xmission.com> wrote in message
> news:87u044o...@workhorse.earlhome...
>
> -more snippage-
>
>> And the light dawns. I took a look at your other kb snatch video,
>> but the thing is like seven minutes long, it only shows from the
>> shoulders up, and the light isn't so good. So I didn't pay as much
>> attention to it.
>>
>>> If you look at the very next link on the home page, the 20-15-10-5
>>> snatch video, that's in the soft or Girevoy Sport style. My
>>> technique is far from perfect but you will clearly get the
>>> difference - the effort is only what's required, the bell sort of
>>> wraps around the hand at the top, and the pace is slower. That's
>>> what I do now almost exclusively because I still hope to do some
>>> more GS competitions, and that's what you need if you expect to do
>>> 5 minutes each arm non-stop, which is what you strive for in
>>> competition - you're given 10:00 and allowed only a single arm
>>> switch, and you never put the bell down.
>>
>> I can see the difference. Although I would really like to see how
>> you catch the bell at the bottom and swing it back up. I'll have
>> to experiment a bit.
>
> I'll see if I can put up a better video, and better technique as
> well, some time soon. That was the only place I could find to rest
> the camera. I had a tripod but I lost a piece of it <sigh>.
Please do. I like to "read" about fitness, and I find that physical
descriptions are very helpful for giving me key points to think about
while I am lifting, but being able to see a movement and compare it
with film of my own is very helpful.
> Try http://www.girevoysport.ru and look at some of the videos -
> there are plenty of example of performances from the world
> championships. Just like in PL, all sorts of different body types
> and styles.
Thanks for the link. The girl juggling a kettlebell is insane.
Don't worry Steve I realize that we're all experimenting. Your advice
just happens to line up with what I was planning on trying anyhow :).
I've got no problem relying on experience, and you've got more
experience than I do.
I'm really happy with what I am doing right now, and my lifts continue
to go up. I am experienced enough to know that you can't really argue
with that.
Your posts have definitely made me rethink how much I should be
pushing my kettlebell work, however. I'm thinking that it might be
possible to push a little harder with the kbell and still have my
deadlift go up.
We'll see.
<snip about pressing and halos, thanks again for the input>
> You are more than strong enough to try such a weekend should you
> wish.
I am not worried about being strong enough for a conference. I might
be a little embarrassed because it would be obvious that I still have
a long way to go, but that's fine. I'd happily look like a goofball
if it meant that I was able to progress faster. In fact, I nearly
signed up for the L.A. Strength Seminar.
http://www.lastrengthseminar.com/
The problem isn't my current level of strength, or even how much the
trip would cost that is the problem. The real problem is that I don't
like being away from my family for very long :).
> Go online and read the reviews - almost everyone says it is the best
> instruction in the area of strength and conditioning they've ever
> received, and I'm happy to report that, while it was great when I
> first did it 3 years ago, it has reached a whole other level now.
> The approach is now refered to as a system for learning how to move
> your body, and the kettlebell is just the tool. Tons of stuff
> applicable to many areas of physical endeavor including PL, Olympic
> lifting, flexibility, joint health, martial arts and/or fighting,
> etc. I was fascinated to see this weekend's group consisted
> overwhelmingly of martial artists and mil/leo's (military people or
> those in law enforcement) - no one in the group who had competed in
> a PL meet, which is unusual for the stateside RKC weekends. But
> quite a few "plain folks" as well, including several who attended
> for their own edification and elected not to be tested, some who
> make their livings in other fields who have been training with kb's
> for a while and hope to move into training, and several strength and
> conditioning coaches, too.
That certainly sounds interesting, and it certainly couldn't hurt to
prepare for such an event.
Jason
Kettlebell Inc
> > What's the difference between dips, pull-ups, and chin-ups?
> >
> > Jen
Hi Jen,
Dips are as much of a chest exercise as they are a triceps exercise,
maybe more so. They also can be aggravating to your shoulders if you
have any shoulder problems. With chinups you use more of your biceps
and lower lats to do the pulling. With pullups you are using your
traps and lats for the pulling.
The combination of all three make for a good upper body bodyweight
workout. You will hit all the muscles of the upper body. Pullups are
one of the best back exercises around and a good indicator of upper
body strength. The back is often neglected in fitness routines, but so
very important for overall fitness and longevity. Especially in later
years to combat a rounding over posture.
John
Kettlebell Inc
Brian Link wrote:
> Yes, I know, the best exercise for fat loss is cardio, but I just
> can't bring myself to it. Stair masters, ellipticals, bikes, etc. Way
> too boring. The best I can do is a brisk 2 mile walk around the lake
> every night.
>
> On the other hand, I love lifting. So, accepting that I'm not gonna
> see huge fat losses lifting alone, what would be the best way to
> maximize fat loss by resistance training? It's my understanding that
> the whole "more lean mass means more fat burning" has been deflated
> here, so I'm just concentrating on the workout itself.
>
> Thanks as always for any tips.
>
Hi Brian,
I'm just seeing this thread. Strength endurance training is excellent
for burning fat. When reading the marketing for kettlebells, it is
important to keep in mind that the kettlebells themselves aren't the
things that are burning the fat, but the shape and design of the
kettlebell lends itself to strength endurance type routines. Strength
endurance routines can be easily done with dumbells or barbells for
that matter. But I agree, kettlebells are much more fun and give extra
benefit to the exercises. They are also convenient for taking out to a
park or somewhere outside to work out.
A strength endurance routine would consist of fairly higher reps of big
body movements. Like swings, snatches, jerks, cleans. You can
certainly do these with a dumbell. The reason they are big fat burners
is because you are recruiting your biggest muscles to lift the weights.
Bringing a weight from the ground to over your height or to chest
level uses your legs, butt, hamstrings, back. That is a lot of blood
that needs to be pumped, so your heartrate really kicks up in those
10-20 rep sets.
If you like walking and lifting, you can combine the two. Set a
dumbell or KB at one spot on your course. Do a set of 10 snatches, and
10 cleans, or just 15 snatches or swings, enough to get your heart rate
pumping, then 'walk it off' until your heart rate goes down, then
repeat for 4 rounds or so. It is an excellent workout and with 2-3
times a week, you will really see results quick.
John