Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Re: Oklohoma - Building Codes?
1 view
Skip to first unread message
Hactar
May 22, 2013, 8:59:13 AM5/22/13
to
In article <knhl6u$rjk$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
Paul Ciszek <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> In article <knhhlm$5r7$5...@dont-email.me>,
> Xho Jingleheimerschmidt <xho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On 05/21/2013 12:41 PM, Greg Goss wrote:
> >>
> >> Should building codes in "Tornado Alley" specify some kind of
> >> stormproof shelter? The reporter on today's radio interview mentioned
> >> that such a shelter would cost about $4000, and that he'd lived in
> >> Moore for four years now without getting one, but he would be speaking
> >> to a contractor tomorrow. $4000 is a fair-sized chunk of money, but
> >> it's only a minor chunk of the price of a house.
> >
> >It is a bigger chunk of the price of a "mobile" home.
> >
> >What do you get for $4000? I've been in some storm shelters, and while
> >better than a tree house I don't know that I'd expect to survive what
> >happened to Moore in one of them.
>
> Someone else has posted links to some pictures. Concrete "boxes"
> essentially. You'd be better off inside one than not inside one.
Made of blocks, not poured slabs. Are the blocks even solid, or are they
breeze blocks?
> For mobile home parks, "community shelters" have been suggested.
--
-eben QebWe...@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81
LIBRA: A big promotion is just around the corner for someone
much more talented than you. Laughter is the very best medicine,
remember that when your appendix bursts next week. -- Weird Al
Paul Ciszek <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> In article <knhhlm$5r7$5...@dont-email.me>,
> Xho Jingleheimerschmidt <xho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On 05/21/2013 12:41 PM, Greg Goss wrote:
> >>
> >> Should building codes in "Tornado Alley" specify some kind of
> >> stormproof shelter? The reporter on today's radio interview mentioned
> >> that such a shelter would cost about $4000, and that he'd lived in
> >> Moore for four years now without getting one, but he would be speaking
> >> to a contractor tomorrow. $4000 is a fair-sized chunk of money, but
> >> it's only a minor chunk of the price of a house.
> >
> >It is a bigger chunk of the price of a "mobile" home.
> >
> >What do you get for $4000? I've been in some storm shelters, and while
> >better than a tree house I don't know that I'd expect to survive what
> >happened to Moore in one of them.
>
> Someone else has posted links to some pictures. Concrete "boxes"
> essentially. You'd be better off inside one than not inside one.
Made of blocks, not poured slabs. Are the blocks even solid, or are they
breeze blocks?
> For mobile home parks, "community shelters" have been suggested.
--
-eben QebWe...@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81
LIBRA: A big promotion is just around the corner for someone
much more talented than you. Laughter is the very best medicine,
remember that when your appendix bursts next week. -- Weird Al
Hactar
May 22, 2013, 5:01:20 PM5/22/13
to
In article <XnsA1C86B5864C50mo...@130.133.4.11>,
Dover Beach <moon.b...@mail.com> wrote:
> bill van <bil...@delete.shaw.ca> wrote in
> news:billvan-06DEA0...@news.shawcable.net:
> >
> > Whenever there's a bad tornado in an area that's prone to tornadoes, I
> > wonder why people choose to live there, and especially why many of
> > them live in wood-frame houses or trailer parks in tornado alley. Far
> > as I can tell, it's because of a sometimes-fatal combination of too
> > few economic resources, not enough education and too much religion.
> >
> > I know, I live in a place that sooner or later is going to have a
> > mega-earthquake. But that's once every 500 years, not every damn year.
> > If the Big One happens in my lifetime, I won't have reason to
> > complain. But if I found myself living in a tornado zone, I'd be out
> > of there right quick.
> >
>
> I think there's more to it than that, bill. When you live in tornado
> alley, you know there will be tornadoes, but they don't hit *your* house
> every year. You can convince yourself, and with some reason, that the
> fact that there will be tornadoes in your area doesn't mean *you'll* be
> hit. They're surprisingly localized.
>
> Tim W. points out that he lives in tornado alley, and so does Mike Muth,
> and several other people here who aren't poor, uneducated, and
> dopily-religious, though they might be religious. If you rule out
> chunks of the Mid-west and South, you start to run out of affordable and
> otherwise-pleasant places to live.
I have some relatives that live in the Four Corners area (Colorado
quadrant). I asked them about natural disasters, and they couldn't name
any that apply there, and gave the impression that they live in a
localized Utopia as far as that's concerned. Then, on asking them about
various features around there (snowblower trains, those long poles by
roads, steep roofs, etc) it came to light that they get oodles of snow
some years, enough to make vital roads impassable and do damage to some
buildings. Maybe it's just me, but I consider precipitation that
prevents travel for weeks on end, collapses roofs, and knocks out power
to be a natural disaster.
Dover Beach <moon.b...@mail.com> wrote:
> bill van <bil...@delete.shaw.ca> wrote in
> news:billvan-06DEA0...@news.shawcable.net:
> >
> > Whenever there's a bad tornado in an area that's prone to tornadoes, I
> > wonder why people choose to live there, and especially why many of
> > them live in wood-frame houses or trailer parks in tornado alley. Far
> > as I can tell, it's because of a sometimes-fatal combination of too
> > few economic resources, not enough education and too much religion.
> >
> > I know, I live in a place that sooner or later is going to have a
> > mega-earthquake. But that's once every 500 years, not every damn year.
> > If the Big One happens in my lifetime, I won't have reason to
> > complain. But if I found myself living in a tornado zone, I'd be out
> > of there right quick.
> >
>
> I think there's more to it than that, bill. When you live in tornado
> alley, you know there will be tornadoes, but they don't hit *your* house
> every year. You can convince yourself, and with some reason, that the
> fact that there will be tornadoes in your area doesn't mean *you'll* be
> hit. They're surprisingly localized.
>
> Tim W. points out that he lives in tornado alley, and so does Mike Muth,
> and several other people here who aren't poor, uneducated, and
> dopily-religious, though they might be religious. If you rule out
> chunks of the Mid-west and South, you start to run out of affordable and
> otherwise-pleasant places to live.
I have some relatives that live in the Four Corners area (Colorado
quadrant). I asked them about natural disasters, and they couldn't name
any that apply there, and gave the impression that they live in a
localized Utopia as far as that's concerned. Then, on asking them about
various features around there (snowblower trains, those long poles by
roads, steep roofs, etc) it came to light that they get oodles of snow
some years, enough to make vital roads impassable and do damage to some
buildings. Maybe it's just me, but I consider precipitation that
prevents travel for weeks on end, collapses roofs, and knocks out power
to be a natural disaster.
Lesmond
May 22, 2013, 11:43:14 PM5/22/13
to
On Wed, 22 May 2013 17:01:20 -0400, Hactar wrote:
>
>I have some relatives that live in the Four Corners area (Colorado
>quadrant). I asked them about natural disasters, and they couldn't name
>any that apply there, and gave the impression that they live in a
>localized Utopia as far as that's concerned. Then, on asking them about
>various features around there (snowblower trains, those long poles by
>roads, steep roofs, etc) it came to light that they get oodles of snow
>some years, enough to make vital roads impassable and do damage to some
>buildings. Maybe it's just me, but I consider precipitation that
>prevents travel for weeks on end, collapses roofs, and knocks out power
>to be a natural disaster.
I consider it to be a much deserved mandatory vacation.
>
>I have some relatives that live in the Four Corners area (Colorado
>quadrant). I asked them about natural disasters, and they couldn't name
>any that apply there, and gave the impression that they live in a
>localized Utopia as far as that's concerned. Then, on asking them about
>various features around there (snowblower trains, those long poles by
>roads, steep roofs, etc) it came to light that they get oodles of snow
>some years, enough to make vital roads impassable and do damage to some
>buildings. Maybe it's just me, but I consider precipitation that
>prevents travel for weeks on end, collapses roofs, and knocks out power
>to be a natural disaster.
--
If there's a nuclear winter, at least it'll snow.
Paul Ciszek
May 23, 2013, 9:18:14 AM5/23/13
to
In article <12su6a-...@pc.home>, Hactar <ebenZ...@verizon.net> wrote:
>In article <knhl6u$rjk$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>Paul Ciszek <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>> In article <knhhlm$5r7$5...@dont-email.me>,
>> Xho Jingleheimerschmidt <xho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >What do you get for $4000? I've been in some storm shelters, and while
>> >better than a tree house I don't know that I'd expect to survive what
>> >happened to Moore in one of them.
>>
>> Someone else has posted links to some pictures. Concrete "boxes"
>> essentially. You'd be better off inside one than not inside one.
>
>Made of blocks, not poured slabs. Are the blocks even solid, or are they
>breeze blocks?
to me.
--
"Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS
crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in
TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in
bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither."
Paul Ciszek
May 23, 2013, 11:31:24 AM5/23/13
to
In article <0aov6a-...@pc.home>, Hactar <ebenZ...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>I have some relatives that live in the Four Corners area (Colorado
>quadrant). I asked them about natural disasters, and they couldn't name
>any that apply there, and gave the impression that they live in a
>localized Utopia as far as that's concerned. Then, on asking them about
>various features around there (snowblower trains, those long poles by
>roads, steep roofs, etc) it came to light that they get oodles of snow
>some years, enough to make vital roads impassable and do damage to some
>buildings. Maybe it's just me, but I consider precipitation that
>prevents travel for weeks on end, collapses roofs, and knocks out power
>to be a natural disaster.
Mississippi?) one of the major news outlets listed Michican as the least
disaster-prone state. I wondered what knocked Colorado out of the running,
and decided it was probably blizzards. Still, I'll take that over
tornados and earthquakes--you can prepare for blizzards.
John Mc.
May 23, 2013, 2:26:47 PM5/23/13
to
the house is a little cooler than SWMBO likes. This causes "huddling"
together for warmth at night. Heh, heh, heh.
John Mc.
Lesmond
May 23, 2013, 5:26:29 PM5/23/13
to
Hactar
May 23, 2013, 7:31:07 PM5/23/13
to
In article <yrfzbaqirevmbaar...@192.168.0.6>,
I put the router on one UPS, so that'll be powered unless I let the
computer drain it (yay wifi), but the one powering my bipap probably
won't last all night, which means I can't sleep here. Fortunately, most
power outages are on the order of a second or two (we're near a hospital
and a power station both), so I'm not too worried.
computer drain it (yay wifi), but the one powering my bipap probably
won't last all night, which means I can't sleep here. Fortunately, most
power outages are on the order of a second or two (we're near a hospital
and a power station both), so I'm not too worried.
Greg Goss
May 23, 2013, 8:37:34 PM5/23/13
to
the optional blower. (The fan to fit this fireplace is something like
$450. The entire fireplace without the fan is something like $800. A
surplus 120V computer case fan from Princess Auto was something like
$8. A pair of zip ties and plug the fan into the socket that's
already there.) So in a power outage, the gas fireplace would work,
but would produce minimal heat unless someone starts manually fanning
air through the plenum.
During an extended outage, would the gas fail after a couple of hours,
or does the gas company have backup generators at their pumping
stations?
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Greg Goss
May 23, 2013, 8:44:49 PM5/23/13
to
ebenZ...@verizon.net (Hactar) wrote:
>I put the router on one UPS, so that'll be powered unless I let the
>computer drain it (yay wifi), but the one powering my bipap probably
>won't last all night, which means I can't sleep here. Fortunately, most
>power outages are on the order of a second or two (we're near a hospital
>and a power station both), so I'm not too worried.
I have a very small UPS on the equipment shelf in the furnace room.
>I put the router on one UPS, so that'll be powered unless I let the
>computer drain it (yay wifi), but the one powering my bipap probably
>won't last all night, which means I can't sleep here. Fortunately, most
>power outages are on the order of a second or two (we're near a hospital
>and a power station both), so I'm not too worried.
It powers the ADSL modem which includes WiFi and the VOIP box. But
the central wireless base for all our phones is not on that circuit.
So if we want home phone during a power outage, we need to go to a
very dark room in the basement to use our only wired phone. I've
never tested whether the wireless phone base station can work as a
wired phone without power - it might (on top of the fridge in the
kitchen).
Anyhow, the UPS can drive the WiFi for at least 20 minutes. That's as
much as we've tested.
My sleep breathing disorder results in sleep deprivation rather than
anything more dangerous. I can probably go a couple of days without
the CPAP.
The small UPS that runs our router was being flushed out of a local
clearance house for something like $12. I should have bought one for
the phone base and another for the bedroom (for the CPAP when I
discovered two years later that I needed a CPAP).
danny burstein
May 23, 2013, 8:57:36 PM5/23/13
to
In <b07rfq...@mid.individual.net> Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> writes:
>The small UPS that runs our router was being flushed out of a local
>clearance house for something like $12. I should have bought one for
>the phone base and another for the bedroom (for the CPAP when I
>discovered two years later that I needed a CPAP).
The CPAP might, or might not... even work on off a standard
>The small UPS that runs our router was being flushed out of a local
>clearance house for something like $12. I should have bought one for
>the phone base and another for the bedroom (for the CPAP when I
>discovered two years later that I needed a CPAP).
commodity UPS.
The alternating current "wave form" coming from the utility
wires is that nice sinusiodal curve we know and love. However,
the output from many UPS'es is a "modified sine wave", or
basically, lots of chopped up step boxes.
While this usually does ok for low current electronics,
especially if they're using their own converters, it often causes
problems with motors. So if your CPAP is using line current
without rectification, etc., you might have problems..
- try plugging a standard (small) electric fan into
the UPS and you'll see what I mean.
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Roy Smith
May 23, 2013, 8:53:57 PM5/23/13
to
years ago and lost power for about 16 hours. We never lost natural gas
flow. The priorities for the line repairs were given as major
substations, hospitals, then shopping centers. Housing was at the
bottom of the list. I don't know where other utilities fit into the
list but I would guess pretty high.
Your statement about minimal heat from a gas fireplace was very true.
The temperature in the room with the fireplace was only 2-3 degrees
above the rest of the house which was about 50 degrees fahrenheit. It
was below 20 degrees f outside for the duration.
Roy
Greg Goss
May 23, 2013, 9:44:30 PM5/23/13
to
"Roy Smith" <rsmi...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>Greg Goss wrote on 5/23/2013 at 8:37:34 PM:
>> My fireplace never produced much heat until I installed a kludge for
>> the optional blower. ... So in a power outage, the gas fireplace would work,
>Greg Goss wrote on 5/23/2013 at 8:37:34 PM:
>> My fireplace never produced much heat until I installed a kludge for
>> but would produce minimal heat unless someone starts manually fanning
>> air through the plenum.
>> air through the plenum.
>Your statement about minimal heat from a gas fireplace was very true.
>The temperature in the room with the fireplace was only 2-3 degrees
>above the rest of the house which was about 50 degrees fahrenheit. It
>was below 20 degrees f outside for the duration.
About an hour after the power stayed off, if it was sub-freezing
>The temperature in the room with the fireplace was only 2-3 degrees
>above the rest of the house which was about 50 degrees fahrenheit. It
>was below 20 degrees f outside for the duration.
outside, I would rig up something from cardboard boxes to make it
fairly easy to manually fan air through the heat-exchange plenum where
the fan would normally be running. I bet that would transfer a useful
amount of heat.
The last time we had an extended power outage (about three hours), I
fetched the pack of tea-light candles and lighter from under the seat
in my car, and had light scattered around the house. But it was
summer, so I never tested the fireplace as heater. And the time the
furnace went out, there was still power, so the fireplace fan pumped
lots of heat into the house.
Hactar
May 23, 2013, 10:19:45 PM5/23/13
to
In article <b07rfq...@mid.individual.net>,
wake up (temporarily?) stupid, or not wake up at all.
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> ebenZ...@verizon.net (Hactar) wrote:
>
> >I put the router on one UPS, so that'll be powered unless I let the
> >computer drain it (yay wifi), but the one powering my bipap probably
> >won't last all night,
>
> ebenZ...@verizon.net (Hactar) wrote:
>
> >I put the router on one UPS, so that'll be powered unless I let the
> >computer drain it (yay wifi), but the one powering my bipap probably
> >won't last all night,
>
> Anyhow, the UPS can drive the WiFi for at least 20 minutes. That's as
> much as we've tested.
>
> My sleep breathing disorder results in sleep deprivation rather than
> anything more dangerous. I can probably go a couple of days without
> the CPAP.
Lucky you. In order of severity, I'll either wake up with a headache,
> much as we've tested.
>
> My sleep breathing disorder results in sleep deprivation rather than
> anything more dangerous. I can probably go a couple of days without
> the CPAP.
wake up (temporarily?) stupid, or not wake up at all.
Hactar
May 23, 2013, 10:15:25 PM5/23/13
to
In article <knmdu0$b94$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230985467489
Of course, maybe it wouldn't have worked for long, but power outages
typically don't last for long.
> The alternating current "wave form" coming from the utility
> wires is that nice sinusiodal curve we know and love. However,
> the output from many UPS'es is a "modified sine wave", or
> basically, lots of chopped up step boxes.
Yeah, it sucks. My dad tried daisy-chaining the UPSes once. Only let it
run for a few seconds due to the horrendous relay chattering from the
downstream one. Plus there was a "WTF is that noise?" from the other
room. It might have worked better the other way -- the downstream one
was nicer[1] and so might make a better waveform.
[1] Back when I lived at home, we had a brownout once. My UPS (the nicer
one) raised the voltage from 95 or whatever it was. Drew more
current that way, but totally within tolerance. His UPS didn't,
switched to battery/inverter, and depleted the battery in a matter
of minutes. This, boys and girls, is why it's sometimes worth it to
spend a bit more.
danny burstein <dan...@panix.com> wrote:
> In <b07rfq...@mid.individual.net> Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> writes:
>
> >The small UPS that runs our router was being flushed out of a local
> >clearance house for something like $12. I should have bought one for
> >the phone base and another for the bedroom (for the CPAP when I
> >discovered two years later that I needed a CPAP).
>
> The CPAP might, or might not... even work on off a standard
> commodity UPS.
Mine worked, and the UPS was one of these:
> In <b07rfq...@mid.individual.net> Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> writes:
>
> >The small UPS that runs our router was being flushed out of a local
> >clearance house for something like $12. I should have bought one for
> >the phone base and another for the bedroom (for the CPAP when I
> >discovered two years later that I needed a CPAP).
>
> The CPAP might, or might not... even work on off a standard
> commodity UPS.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230985467489
Of course, maybe it wouldn't have worked for long, but power outages
typically don't last for long.
> The alternating current "wave form" coming from the utility
> wires is that nice sinusiodal curve we know and love. However,
> the output from many UPS'es is a "modified sine wave", or
> basically, lots of chopped up step boxes.
run for a few seconds due to the horrendous relay chattering from the
downstream one. Plus there was a "WTF is that noise?" from the other
room. It might have worked better the other way -- the downstream one
was nicer[1] and so might make a better waveform.
[1] Back when I lived at home, we had a brownout once. My UPS (the nicer
one) raised the voltage from 95 or whatever it was. Drew more
current that way, but totally within tolerance. His UPS didn't,
switched to battery/inverter, and depleted the battery in a matter
of minutes. This, boys and girls, is why it's sometimes worth it to
spend a bit more.
John Mc.
May 24, 2013, 8:49:49 AM5/24/13
to
itself for an hour every Sunday. This keeps the batteries that start it
fully charged. Only know it's running if you're near it when it starts.
John Mc.
Jorge
May 24, 2013, 9:06:42 AM5/24/13
to
In article <knmdn5$rd8$1...@dont-email.me>,
Fireplaces tend to pump any heated air up the flue.
what you want is a sealed unit getting it's incoming combustion air from
the outside.
Radiant heat is the best . heats the objects in the room not the air.
--
Karma ; what a concept!
what you want is a sealed unit getting it's incoming combustion air from
the outside.
Radiant heat is the best . heats the objects in the room not the air.
--
Karma ; what a concept!
0 new messages