Christian endorsement of Free Software increases
Marco Fioretti
In the modern world, many documents and services are offered through
software technologies which become obsolete in few years or are too
expensive for many users. This hampers free communication among
people, as well as the preservation of the common spiritual and
cultural heritage and the diffusion of the Word of God.
At the same time, many Christians often commit a crime, if only for
lack of adequate information, using illegally installed proprietary
software.
Recently, however, some Christians have started to suggest that, since
they are developed with a spirit of cooperation and sharing, certain
already existing software standards and technologies have strong
affinities with Christian ethics [1].
For this reason, several groups of Christian inspiration [2], both
Catholics and from other denominations, have been formed to promote,
in the respective Churches, the usage of Free Formats and Software.
Among these groups there are Project Eleutheros [3], which
specifically addresses the Catholic Church, and the USA based Freely
Project [4], open to all Christian denominations.
To know more about their activities, you are welcome to write to the
following email addresses:
Project Eleutheros: info @eleutheros.it
The Freely Project: freely @thefreelyproject.org
Best Regards,
Marco Fioretti
Eleutheros Project
1] http://www.newsforge.com/mainpage/05/11/03/1643243.shtml?tid=31
2] http://software.newsforge.com/software/06/04/14/1535251.shtml?tid=150
3] http://www.eleutheros.it
4] http://www.thefreelyproject.org/
Brandon Staggs
> For this reason, several groups of Christian inspiration [2], both
> Catholics and from other denominations, have been formed to promote,
> in the respective Churches, the usage of Free Formats and Software.
As spam goes this is interesting, but:
I am more interested in free plumbing labor, free grounds keeping
labor, etc. I'd like the stock people at the grocery stores I shop at
to donate their labor, too, so I could pay less for the groceries I
need. Let me know when you come up with a group of "Christian
inspiration" that addresses these needs.
--
Brandon Staggs
http://www.studylamp.com
Visit the misc.education.home-school.christian website:
http://www.meh-sc.org
Scott Bryce
> As spam goes this is interesting, but:
>
> I am more interested in free plumbing labor, free grounds keeping
> labor, etc. I'd like the stock people at the grocery stores I shop at
> to donate their labor, too, so I could pay less for the groceries I
> need. Let me know when you come up with a group of "Christian
> inspiration" that addresses these needs.
I understand where you are coming from, because I also make my living
doing software development. As someone who writes in Perl, runs the
scripts under Apache on a Linux server, and generates PDF documents, I
can appreciate the efforts of the open source community. (PDF isn't open
source, but the specification is freely distributed.)
What I don't understand is how a lack of open source software hampers
free communication.
Marco Fioretti
> Brandon Staggs wrote:
>
>> As spam goes this is interesting, but:
>>
>> I am more interested in free plumbing labor, free grounds keeping
>> labor, etc.
All I can answer to this is: please *do* read what I am proposing instead of
commenting something else (*). I will be more than happy to answer comments
on specific points of what I *actually* said in my articles.
> What I don't understand is how a lack of open source software hampers
> free communication.
This is not what I posted. Please (re) read it:
>In the modern world, many documents and services are offered through
>software technologies which become obsolete in few years or are too
>expensive for many users. This hampers free communication among
>people
No mention of proprietary or FOSS software. Above all, that is a only
summary of the Eleutheros Manifesto
(http://www.eleutheros.it/documents/Manifesto?set_language=en) which
stresses the adoption of Free (as in Freedom etc..: non proprietary)
formats and protocols above everything else, including open source.
Best Regards,
Marco Fioretti
(*) http://www.newsforge.com/mainpage/05/11/03/1643243.shtml?tid=31
http://software.newsforge.com/software/06/04/14/1535251.shtml?tid=150
Brandon Staggs
> I understand where you are coming from, because I also make my living
> doing software development. As someone who writes in Perl, runs the
> scripts under Apache on a Linux server, and generates PDF documents, I
> can appreciate the efforts of the open source community. (PDF isn't open
> source, but the specification is freely distributed.)
>
> What I don't understand is how a lack of open source software hampers
> free communication.
I am all for using OSS when it does the job well. I don't object to
people giving away their software -- they can license it in any way
they like.
What I object to is wresting Matthew 10:8 into something that
obligates Christians to give away their labor. It makes no sense to
apply that verse (as a link in the OP did) to people's *jobs*. And
most computer programmers can not do their trade for free.
Matthew 10:8 was a commandment from Jesus to his apostles to heal the
sick and cast out demons freely. It has nothing at all to do with not
charging for programming labor any more than it means a Christian can
not expect to get paid for plumbing labor, fixing cars, preparing
meals, bagging groceries, etc.
:-)
Marco Fioretti
> What I object to is wresting Matthew 10:8 into something that
> obligates Christians to give away their labor. It makes no sense to
> apply that verse (as a link in the OP did) to people's *jobs*.
The Freely Project "About us" page explicitly says that "The Freely Project
was setup for the promotion of Open Source Software (OSS) and Linux WITHIN
CHURCHES" (uppercase is mine) and "providing also the ethical/philosophical
reasons for doing so".
It doesn't say at all that all programmers should work for free, or that all
software and software work should always be free as in beer. Nor does
Eleutheros, for that matter.
Best Regards,
Marco Fioretti
Brandon Staggs
> Brandon Staggs <"[bstaggs]{AT}[swordsearcher]{DOT}[com]"> wrote:
>
>> What I object to is wresting Matthew 10:8 into something that
>> obligates Christians to give away their labor. It makes no sense to
>> apply that verse (as a link in the OP did) to people's *jobs*.
>
> The Freely Project "About us" page explicitly says that "The Freely Project
> was setup for the promotion of Open Source Software (OSS) and Linux WITHIN
> CHURCHES" (uppercase is mine) and "providing also the ethical/philosophical
> reasons for doing so".
The front page includes a quote from Matthew 10:8. What is implied
with that verse? The verse was a *commandment* from God the Son to
his apostles. If they are not implying that there is an obligation
for Christians to somehow avoid proprietary software on the basis of
"freely give," what exactly is the reason for using that verse?
> It doesn't say at all that all programmers should work for free, or that all
Not explicitly. But saying that there are "ethical" reasons for
churches to use OSS, combined with the wresting on Matthew 10:8,
certainly implies that programmers should not have rights to their
code.
"Promote awareness of the ethical/philosophical reasons behind Linux
and OSS" -- from
http://www.thefreelyproject.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=26
Perhaps you should be more specific. I looked around the website and
couldn't find a discussion of 'ethical' reasons to use OSS, but I did
find links to the Free Software Foundation.
> software and software work should always be free as in beer. Nor does
> Eleutheros, for that matter.
Do you believe that all software should be "free as in speech?"
Your website links to the FSF, and appears to endorse their ideals.
The president of the FSF has made some pretty wild claims about
software and is unabashedly anti-Christian. Why would a Christian
organization want to associate with the FSF? Here are some
enlightening articles by the president of the FSF:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/shouldbefree.html
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-free.html
If you read carefully Stallman's nutty manifestos, you'll find that he
actually believes it should be *illegal* for authors to own the source
code they develop.
Perhaps you can help me out by explaining what the 'ethical' reasons
for using only OSS are. I'm all for using the best tools for the job,
but am unaware of any "special reasons" why Christians or Churches
should restrict their software use to OSS. And I'll also be
interested in your exegesis of Matthew 10:8 and why it's the theme
verse of that website.
Finally, though I am by no means a topic-nazi, what relevance is this
to meh-sc?
Marco Fioretti
Sorry if I begin from the end, but it is necessary:
> Finally, though I am by no means a topic-nazi, what relevance is this
> to meh-sc?
I posted the announcement here because I thought, and still think, that
giving Christian oriented information on tools (software) and subjects
(Information Technology) widely used and thought by educators, including
parents who home school their children, *is* definitely relevant on a
newsgroup with this name. On to your questions now:
>> The [Freely Project] front page includes a quote from Matthew 10:8.
>> What is implied with that verse? ... If they are not implying that
>> there is an obligation for Christians to somehow avoid proprietary
>> software on the basis of "freely give," what exactly is the reason
>> for using that verse?
I am not a member of the Freely Project. I have answered for them to the
best of my knowledge and have asked their members to step in to answer you
directly. Now I'll only answer, where it is applicable, only for me and/or
the Eleutheros project which I co-founded.
> But saying that there are "ethical" reasons for churches to use OSS,
> combined with the wresting on Matthew 10:8, certainly implies that
> programmers should not have rights to their code.
I do not think this (and the GPL itself works just *because* programmers
have rights to their code, and I'm happy with that).
What I personally believe is that a Christian organization should *prefer*
software which can be reused/shared with other organizations. And I believe
even more that a Christian organization should NOT force expensive
software, with per-seat costs, on its less affluent members or partners.
Practical example: if Vatican had no computers, I'd suggest them (being a
Catholic) that they use Gnu/Linux systems. Since Vatican already has
Windows computers, I don't care. But I'd be quite upset if they
distributed .doc files with macros (which cannot work on the
OpenOffice/Gnu/Linux old, donated PCs which are often the only available in
third world missions, school, ministries...). Because that would make the
Church message less accessible.
...
> Do you believe that all software should be "free as in speech?"
Relax. I like FOSS a lot, but I do believe the decision to adopt it should
be a free one. I've never been able to say "to be free as in freedom
everybody must only use the software that the *FSF* wants" without
laughing.
But I do believe that "free as in speech" (GPL or similar) SW is
*unreplaceable*
in some situations (teaching, national security....). And I believe that it
is communication, that is file formats and protocols, which must be free as
in speech. Use (or develop/sell) proprietary software, I don't care. As
long as I'm not forced to use the *same* program to read the files you send
to me. Please take a look at
www.eleutheros.it/Members/mfioretti/marco-fioretti-presentazione/:
I'm on the committee of an organization which set up a petition to *support*
OpenDocument in Microsoft Office, something which would keep it admissible
in Massachusetts and other governments (something hardcore FOSS fans
couldn't tolerate).
Those above are the same ideas and approach which I will also carry on in
Eleutheros.
> Your website links to the FSF, and appears to endorse their ideals.
> The president of the FSF... is unabashedly anti-Christian. Why would a
> Christian organization want to associate with the FSF?
Why are you surprised? Why should a Christian organization refuse to use,
say, a really working cold fusion reactor only because its inventor were
anti-Christian?
If it works for good of humanity, doesn't pollute etc...
We (I, Eleutheros and even Stallman if you read my 2nd article) say
"affinities". Not "completely equal philosophy", or even less "same
*goals*". Free as in speech formats and protocols are always a wonderful
idea. Free as in speech software is a very good idea in many situations,
so....
Hope this answers your doubts, as far as I'm concerned.
Best Regards,
Marco Fioretti
"Mark T"
> I am by no means a topic-nazi
Brandon is a "biblical homeskool nazi"
Brandon Staggs is upset because I definitively destroyed his silly theory
about biblical homeschooling.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Biblical Reasons Not To Home School
Below is a critique of
http://www.brandonstaggs.com/biblical-reasons-to-home-school.html which is
typical of most Christian fundamentalist home schoolers' erroneous beliefs
on education ...mainly based on Old Testament proof verses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Offered here are just a handful of verses from God's word
This is one of the reasons homeschoolers should be very careful! Home
schooling is dominated by rabid fundamentalists who do not value learning
for the sake of learning. Brandon thinks the bible is the "Word of God'
when in fact it is an ancient collection of books about people's experience
of God. If one reads all the bible it clearly states that Jesus is the Word
of God (John 1: 1) Such verses seem not to be read by literalists.
> There are hundreds of reasons to reject the usage of the government
>education system, including social, moral, academic, ethical, political,
>and "religious" reasons. For a Christian, especially a Christian who values
>the authority of Scripture, God's own words on the matter should settle the
>issue.
This is much the same type of introduction that Christian School advocates
give for their system to be the "one and only Christian way" to educate
children. It is simply not true in any aspect whatsoever. This is an
unsubstantiated biased claim based on subjective opinion on bible proof
verses taken out of context.
The word "school" does not appear in either the Old or New Testament and
therefore the bible cannot be used to back any particular school system.
Early Christians sent their children to classical schools. Educational
concerns about the classical schools (primary or secondary) Christians sent
their children to was not an issue in any of the New Testament letters. The
letters also fail to recognise anything concerned with church as schooling.
As William Barclay correctly pointed out:
"The New Testament lays down no kind of curriculum of training for the
child; the New Testament knows nothing about religious education and nothing
about schools; for the New Testament is certain that the only training which
really matters is given within the home, and that there are no teachers so
effective for good and evil as parents." (William Barclay, Educational
Ideals in the Ancient World, Grand Rapids, Mich: Baker Book House: 1974., p.
236)
That is NOT to say that parents are naturally good at teaching academic
subjects! While professional teachers are best at teaching facts, concepts
and skills the changing of attitudes and value inculcation is best done by
parents who are not trained in teaching facts, concepts and skills. Use the
people best suited for what you want to achieve. It should be noted that
most home schoolers have no formal teaching qualifications whatsoever. It
is like refusing to send your child to a qualified professional surgeon to
have an operation and performing the task yourself on your kitchen table
because "as a parent I know the child better ... and surgery is only using a
knife ...which I use to cut up the meat and veg every day ... simple!" DIY
surgery is a metaphor of homeschooling.
##########################################################
"homeschool" is just amateurish "I feel I can teach it so I'll have a go and
see what happens". Like DIY brain surgery .... "I FEEL I can do brain
surgery so I will experiment on my kids to find out ....I've read several
DIY brain surgery books .... and attended several DIY brain surgery seminars
.....Here we go! ... Oops! Made a mistake! Better take them to a DIY brain
surgery hospital ........Oops! The DIY brain surgery hospital made a
mistake~! .... Better send the kids to a real hospital with professional
doctors who know what they are doing ...Oops! Too late! The kids are dead."
############################################################
In the 4th century the Emperor Julian challenged the Christians to take
their children out of the classical schools, where other gods were taught,
and to retreat to their own schools where they could be taught out of
"Matthew and Luke". He was determined to force on Christians the educational
consequences of the New Testament. The Emperor Julian uses the word
"anetos" to describe the children of Christian parents ... it means
"mindless". He suggested that they be cured by an Hellenistic education.
However, children were not penalised because of their parent's beliefs and
the classical schools remained open to all people. Two people named
Apollinaris (father and son) converted the bible into pseudo-classical
literature with the Pentateuch as a Homeric epic and the gospels as Platonic
dialogues because Julian compelled Christians to to work from texts written
in sub-classical Greek.
In subsequent centuries Christians developed a quasi-educational system to
teach the New Testament but this did not come into conflict with classical
schooling in any practical manner. basil, Bishop of Caesarea in Cappadocia,
wrote "To Young Men on the Advantages of Greek Literature" which suggested
that pupils need not be corrupted by their work, but the onus was upon
parents (and also secondarily teachers) within the church to train them in
Christian belief after school.
The historical fact is that Christians educated their children fully within
the secular system for the first four centuries after Christ's death in
spite of any contradiction that might have posed. They contradicted any
negative influence by biblical training at church and home.
Alternate schooling by fundamentalists, including home schooling, is a
reaction of their intimidated by pluralism and modernity. Jesus speaks of
being salt and light in the world not of running away from it. There would
be far fewer home schools if the world was stuck back in the 1950s where
fundamentalists wish to drag everybody.
> So here we attempt to explain a conviction we have through the only
>objective way possible: Holy Scripture.
Actually this is a very biased way which only works if you are a rabid
fundamentalist. Other Christians, like myself, do not take the bible as the
final word on anything. A Christian is meant to use their God given brain.
This explanation is also not useful for Moslems, Buddhists, Jews, Atheists,
Agnostics, etc etc etc. It ONLY works for fundamentalists ... just like
creation pseudo-science it is to be totally rejected as the subjective
opinion of fanatics.
Universal schooling is a modern invention and a culturally determined
phenomenon. As a result direct appeal to the bible as "proof" for a
schooling system is inadmissible.
The bible uses terms associated with the teaching ministry within a church
and educational metaphors but these cannot be honestly transposed to support
any Christian schooling concept. The Greeks had discussed education in much
the same terms as we do today by the time of Jesus ... but this is NOT what
the New Testament mentions.
The sacrifice that pleases God is that which engages the mind. (Romans
12:1).
> a heathen school
They are PUBLIC schools open to all, not "heathen" schools .... which is a
pejorative term. Should one also refer to home schooling as "home skooling"
in the same manner?
>There are many well educated professional teachers working in the public
>schools who are Christians. I was one of them!
It saddens me that there are so many Christian parents in home schooling who
refuse to critically reflect on their choice of homeschooling and who
constantly demonise anyone who disagrees with them. I have been referred to
as a "troll" by people far less qualified to speak on the matter of
education and who have far less understanding of the bible. (See posts
by Trew Krustyun thugs at misc.education.home-school.christian)
Furthermore, there seems to be no professional reading of any high quality
done by homeschoolers. Having refused to even consider criticism their
refuge is in poorly written fundamentalist "books" which no worthy academic
educational journal would consider publishing. As a result they are left to
wander in a sea of mutual ignorance. It is not their ignorance that
worries me as much as the damage they do to innocent children who deserve
much better than the amateurish witchdoctor type "edjakashun" of home
schooling.
"Mark T"
> I posted the announcement here because I thought, and still think, that
> giving Christian oriented information on tools (software) and subjects
> (Information Technology) widely used and thought by educators, including
> parents who home school their children, *is* definitely relevant on a
> newsgroup with this name.
Brandon Staggs is not interested in education ... just "biblical
homeskoolun"
Scott Bryce
> I posted the announcement here because I thought, and still think,
> that giving Christian oriented information on tools (software) and
> subjects (Information Technology) widely used and thought by
> educators, including parents who home school their children, *is*
> definitely relevant on a newsgroup with this name.
According to the charter, this newsgroup is for discussing
homeschooling. Though off-topic discussions are common and often
welcome, your post was certainly off-topic.
> But I'd be quite upset if they distributed .doc files
> with macros (which cannot work on the OpenOffice/Gnu/Linux old,
> donated PCs which are often the only available in third world
> missions, school, ministries...). Because that would make the Church
> message less accessible. ...
OK, so they can distribute hard copy. Or convert them to PDF. Or convert
them to HTML and post them to the web. But I guess that's your point.
"Mark T"
> According to the charter, this newsgroup is for discussing homeschooling.
Though it's usually about gossip and DIY experimentation on kiddes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
misc.education.home-school.christian FAQ (Revised 2006)
If you are a Newbie on misc.education.home-school.christian and have any
intelligence or a different opinion to the people there ...or WORSE STILL
... you are an actual PROFESSIONAL TEACHER!!(HORROR!!!) ...then the
following will be your treatment:
1 - Repeated ad hominem attacks ...called "troll" etc
2 - Character assassination .....you are always wrong ...they are always
correct ...no discussion on this matter as it is the 11th Commandment of
Home Skooling
3 - Irrational inquisition / witch hunt followed by crucifixion / stoning /
burning at the stake .........they like that "Old Time Religion"!!!
4 - Thinking and critical reflection are capital offences ...some are not
capable of doing one or the other ....some are not capable of doing
either!!!
5 - Don't ask questions ... if you ask questions then you looking for
information to discredit home skooling ...and trying to FORCE them ... to
THINK!!! ...it's being worldly!!! ...you can't be a "Trew Kristyun"!!!! ...
this is a conspiracy ... not that they are paranoid ...much ...and anyway
the medication keeps them sane ... most of the time ... perhaps ... maybe
... oh
well ... just talk about the fun playing with kids .. and acting like kids
....and how wonderful home skoooling is ... go away ... trouble maker ....oh
.... by the way ... welcome to misc.education.home-school.christian ...we
are
a friendly bunch ... believe it ...OR ELSE!!!!
FAQ answered by the NG members:
* Will I find anything of worth regarding education on this NG that I don't
already know because I attended school once ...a long time ago?
No ... not really ...what's education???? ...we only home skool ..."we don't
need no education, we don't need no thought control ...teacher, leave us
kids alone"... go away ... I'm playing with my kids!!!
* Will I have an intelligent logical rational conversation with any person
on this NG?
Maybe ... but only a very few seem capable of doing so ... you can count
them on one hand ... which is good for home skool maths! ... now bugger off
.... I'm playing with my kids!
* Is this NG plagued by Trew Kristyuns?
No ... "Trew Kristyuns" are not a plague ... just a very horrible disease
... let us show you how much we luv you ...really ... we just have to
collect the wood for the fire ... and the petrol for the fuel ... and the
rope to .... oh well ... you don't need to know about that right now
...bugger off ....I'm playing with my kids!
* Is his group friendly?
Yes, to our own kind ...unfortunately you are the Other .... an outsider ...
because of this you will be treated to our friendly "Trew Kristyun luv"
(complete with pithy proof text from the bible) ... this is because you are
inferior and the lowest of the low ... only home skoolers are able to access
the wisdom of God .... only home skoolers know everything in the universe
about education ... and only home skoolers can get their heads that far up
their arses ...so there!! ...now bugger off! ...go away! ...still got to do
more playing with my kids ...I mean more 'Trew Home Skooling Ejakashun"
..... you STILL here? ...... bugger off! ... I'm off to perform more
witchdoctory and diy brain surgery
Surgery isn't something for professionals only. Anyone can do it. It's
just carving up meat.
Us DIY surgeons don't want any government interference with our surgery.
Its our kids we are operating on and we know what's best for the little
buggers. I own my kids so I can experiment on them as I wish. I especially
like experiements using electricity, bare wires and a power socket.
I went to hospital once so I know everything about DIY brain surgery. I've
also watched a lot of soap operas about hospitals. I've read several DIY
brain surgery books and even attended several DIY brain surgery seminars.
Its very easy to do brain surgery as it comes naturally to everyone.
Everyone is born with the ability to do brain surgery because everyone can
use a knife. I use a knife every day to cut up my own food and my kid's
food. That proves that I'm qualified to do DIY brain surgery.
Scalpel? I don't need a scalpel. I've got a steak knife and its sharp
enough. If it doesn't cut through I can always use the chain saw.
Anaesthetic? That's just fancy professional doctor stuff. You don't need
it. You just hit the kid over the head with your steel reinforced KJV
bible. That knocks 'em out.
If you really know your child well you can just ask where it hurts, open up
their head, operate and stitch it back up with some cotton and a few safety
pins. It works just as good as that fancy medical professional stuff.
I don't need to assess or diagnose whether DIY brainsurgery is needed or
not. I like doing it and the kids turn out a whole lot better after I'm
finished. I just ask Junior "You got a headache, Junior?" or "Are you
thinking again?" and if Junior's head wobbles or Junior's head is a bit pale
I operate.
What's really neat is that you can use the leftovers for a family casserole
meal. The kids love it! Great big juicy brain blobs deep fried! Yummy!
Here we go!
Oops!
Made a mistake!
Better take them to a DIY brain surgery hospital.
Oops!
The DIY brain surgery hospital made a mistake!
Better send the kids to a real hospital with professional doctors who know
what they are doing.
Oops!
Too late!
The kids are dead.
Oh well ...
Time to make some more kids so I can continue my career as a DIY surgeon.
Get you Skool Suplice from Miss Poppy at "Downwind From The Homeskool"
Includes:
- Sister De Sade's Ten Commandments Ruler
- Bible Pencil Sharpener
- Jesus Walking On The Water Floaty Pen
http://www.jesus21.com/htdocs/hatemail.php
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Reason 4.
APPLICATION TO JOIN misc.education.home-school.christian
Ammended 2006
*Mandatory for all Newbies
Personal Information
[_] Mr.
[_] Mrs.
[_] Ms.
[_] Miss
[_] Troll Namer
[_] Crusader
[_] Infidel Slayer
[_] Winnie The Pooh Fan
[_] Paranoid Sociopath (with gun fetish)
[_] Creationist
First Name: ___________________________
Last Name: __________________________
Estimated age: ____
How many dozen kids do you homeskool?: ____
Do you own a kitchen table to homeskool at? ___
Can you read and rite (sort of)? ______________
1. Who can vouch that you really are a Trew Homeskoola?
[_] Trailer park manager
[_] Parole Officer
[_] Local drug dealer
[_] Gun store owner
[_] Trew Kristyun Pasta
[_] Fellow Trew Homeskoola
[_] Napoleon
[_] My Mom
[_] Answers In Genesis
[_] A Beka books from unaccredited Pensacola Christian College
2. How did you find out about misc.education.home-school.christian?
[_] I'm perfick and I know everything coz I'm a Trew Homeskoola
[_] The Homeskool Fairy told me about it
[_] None of your business, troll!
[_] Answers In Genesis
[_] A Beka books from unaccredited Pensacola Christian College
3. Are you able to shout "Troll!" with every post you send?
[_] Yes
[_] No
[_] Carnt spel trol as i em homeskooled
4. If you are a Trew Homeskool how was your homeskool acquired?:
[_] Cracker Jack / Cereal Box
[_] Extortion
[_] Made it myself from human waste
[_] Found it on the kitchen table
[_] Fell off the back of a truck
[_] A Beka books from unaccredited Pensacola Christian College
[_] Answers in Genesis
5. What made you decide on joining misc.education.home-school.christian?
(Check all that apply):
[_] Ratbaggery
[_] Chance to flame professional educators
[_] Didn't take my medication
[_] I was drunk at the time
[_] I am a member of the Fundamentalist Dark Age
[_] Dunno
[_] Meaningless whim
[_] Winnie The Pooh Fetish
[_] I like to gossip
[_] I like to repeat "Troll!" ad nauseum
[_] I heard a command to join even though I was wearing my Tin Foil Beanie
[_] I like playing with me kids ... and dead things ... and poking 'em with
a stick
6. Please check the subjects you are willing/capable to homeskool in
[_] Illegal drug industry
[_] Hanging by the neck
[_] Gang member/leader
[_] Burning crosses / churches and homes
[_] Phone scamming
[_] Stoning with real stones
[_] E-Mail scamming
[_] Crucifixion
[_] Home invasion ring member/leader
[_] Auto theft
[_] Welfare scamming
[_] Terrorism
[_] Convenience store clerk
[_] Tar and feathering
[_] Homeskool
[_] Playing with guns (Kindergaten to beginning of High School only)
[_] Creationism as science
[_] Phrenology, blood letting, astrology, tarot card reading, etc etc etc as
science
7. How would you describe yourself and your beliefs? (Check all that apply):
[_] Religious fanatic
[_] Funnymentalist
[_] Universal Hatemonger
[_] Anti-educator
[_] Trew Homeskoola
[_] UFOlogist
[_] Paranoid Psychotic with gun fetish
[_] Creationist ratbag
8. What activities do you enjoy participating in on a regular basis?:
[_] Recreational drug use
[_] Religious persecutions
[_] Rape/murder/mayhem
[_] Crucifixion and stoning
[_] Occassional tar and feathering
[_] Intimidation
[_] Singing Ren & Stimpy's "Happy Happy Joy Joy" song
Thank you for taking the time to fill out your Application to join
misc.education.home-school.christian.
Send your completed application to Seckrateary Farty Carts c/o
misc.education.home-school.christian or <p.addami...@att.net>
Please enjoy the little that your new newsgroup has to offer and don't
hesitate to call people Trolls if they have a different opinion to yourself.
Remember, you don't have to change - you're a Trew Homeskooler!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wayne
<news:e28j5i$10j9$1...@newsreader2.mclink.it> wrote:
> Scott Bryce wrote:
>
>> Brandon Staggs wrote:
>>
>>> As spam goes this is interesting, but:
Forgive us ---- We are always being spammed here.
>>> I am more interested in free plumbing labor, free grounds keeping
>>> labor, etc.
Wouldn't we all --- in the meantime the closest to free is DIY.
> All I can answer to this is: please *do* read what I am proposing instead of
> commenting something else (*). I will be more than happy to answer comments
> on specific points of what I *actually* said in my articles.
>
>> What I don't understand is how a lack of open source software hampers
>> free communication.
>
> This is not what I posted. Please (re) read it:
>
>>In the modern world, many documents and services are offered through
>>software technologies which become obsolete in few years or are too
I can relate to this. An early dependence on MS Works caused us to have to
redo much of our early homeschooling record keeping templates. It's
incompatible with other programs and with later versions of itself. Even
though the program is free with the MS OS it's not worth even that price in
the long run.
Had a hard time getting youngest dd not to use it anymore. Now everything
is in OpenDocument format. Free and open beats free and proprietary.
>>expensive for many users. This hampers free communication among
>>people
All Christian schools should embrace these formats and software, saving the
money for other supplies they need. It's a shame more public schools don't
follow suit and save the taxpayer money also.
> No mention of proprietary or FOSS software. Above all, that is a only
> summary of the Eleutheros Manifesto
> (http://www.eleutheros.it/documents/Manifesto?set_language=en) which
> stresses the adoption of Free (as in Freedom etc..: non proprietary)
> formats and protocols above everything else, including open source.
>
> Best Regards,
> Marco Fioretti
>
> (*) http://www.newsforge.com/mainpage/05/11/03/1643243.shtml?tid=31
> http://software.newsforge.com/software/06/04/14/1535251.shtml?tid=150
Wayne
.........................................................
"The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies;
probably because generally they are the same people." -- G.K. Chesterton
Wooly Baa Lamb
> According to the charter, this newsgroup is for discussing
> homeschooling. Though off-topic discussions are common and often
> welcome, your post was certainly off-topic.
Well..... it has more relevance than alot of other discussions we have
here.
--
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes
ch...@txbarnes.com Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes
You always have freedom of choice, but you never have freedom of
consequence.
Wooly Baa Lamb
> labor, etc. I'd like the stock people at the grocery stores I shop at
> to donate their labor, too, so I could pay less for the groceries I
> need. Let me know when you come up with a group of "Christian
> inspiration" that addresses these needs.
Ask and ye shall receive.
Well, if you were a member of my family's church. ;-)
We (Dalene & I) started a program in our church were ~once a month, we
get together on Saturday morning and go over to someone's house to take
care of some of the projects that are probably too big of a job to do by
ones self. Since Feb, we've
painted kitchen cabinets
cleared trees for a mobile home site
wired a remodled bedroom for electricity
re-ditched a septic line
mowed a yard & landscaped w/ mulch
Note that this is strictly an IN-reach program. Brothers & sisters in
the Body helping each other. I really think more churches should do
this (after all, we are pretty much commanded to do it by Jesus).
"Mark T"
> ones self. (sic)
Homeskool spellun!
> remodled (sic)
More homeskool spellun.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> * Side note - when moving, we found Chris' scholastic apptitude* (sic)
> tests from high school. He scored .... 33 in spelling. :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*Note the homeskool spellun!