Gutters: DIY?
William Carroll
I've decided that if I want to actually grow anything in the flower
beds next to the house, I need to put up gutters. But I also don't
have the money to pay someone to do it. So I'd like some opinions
on how hard it is to do yourself. It doesn't look that hard, but that
usually means it looks easier than it is. Has anyone out there done
this themselves? Do you have any words of wisdom from your experience?
William R. Carroll (Encore Computer, Ft. Lauderdale FL) wcar...@encore.com
"We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form
up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that
we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method
it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion,
inefficiency, and demoralization." -Petronius Arbiter, 210 BC
sei...@xn.ll.mit.edu
Aluminum are more difficult since they should be soldered. Wood
gutters are the most difficult because they are HEAVY and tend
to leak if you make the slightest mistake. I did wood gutters
all around my house (historic requirement), but I had help from
neighbors and friends. I worked only on weekends, and also
replaced a lot of rotted fascia and soffet boards, and installed
soffet vents and new downspouts. It took me about 6 weekends
for about 100 feet of gutters, whereas a contractor could have
had it done in 1 day before I got home from work. I had to
deal with squirrels nesting in the eves, bees and wasps living
under the drip edge and just popping by to see what I was doing,
hot sun, heights (40 foot ladders required), powerlines near my
aluminum ladders and galv downspouts, leaky knots in the wood,
and occasional bad weather. On the other hand, I did a $2,000.00
job for about $600 + $100 for a great ladder (used). _MS
--
Michael Seibert sei...@xn.ll.mit.edu ll-xn!seibert
Michael R. Dow
Gutters are really quite easy to put up yourself. It does take two
people to do well, and set aside a good day to do it (depending,
of course, on the size of your house and your level of DIY experience).
You will need a couple tools:
1) Electric Screwdriver (BIG timesaver)
2) Chaulk string.
Use at least 3 supports per length of gutter pipe (4 if a particular area
seems to get heavy amounts of water compared to other areas on the house.)
Make sure that you have a shallow angle from the top of the pipe series
to its end (bottom) drain. Your chaulk string will mark this angle (you
would find the angle, of course, using a level to make sure that you don't
have a plumb line.. something like that) and you will put in the supports
according to this line. After that its a matter of snapping the gutter
pipes in and testing the thing for major faults (leaks).
There are many (many many) books available on the subject at your local
building materials warehousing outfit.
-M-
Dan Wood
last fall. The hardest part was removing and disposing of my
old galvanized gutters [took them to a metal recycler and got
$3 for them, good environmental move well worth the trouble].
Sounds like this won't be a problem in your case.
My house has a hip roof (vs. gabled ends) and 3 valleys, so
I needed more parts than most would, but it cost only about
$500 for about 225' of gutters plus 8 downspouts. This brand is
very common, and easy to find on sale in this area.
I was extremely pleased with the quality and ease of installation.
The parts snap together (kind of like Lego) and Rainmaster provides
a fairly informitive brochure. I used the hangers that screw into
the fascia, which leaves the top portion of the gutters open, making
cleanout a breeze.
This is a ranch-style house, a two story would be tougher. I
recommend getting a light, portable scaffold for this, makes laying
out the slope and connector/downspout locations a snap.
Cutting the sections (where necessary) was slow with a handsaw,
and a circular saw won't cut all the way through. A power mitre
box would work great, unfortunately I didn't get mine until
Christmas. :(
I have to affiliation with Rainmaster, I'm just an extremely
satisfied customer.
--
*********************************************************************************
* Dan Wood Motorola Inc. I speak for anyone (woof!) *
* motcid!wo...@uunet.uu.net + but not the big M *
* wo...@rtsg.mot.com *
Blake Philip Wood
>Aluminum are more difficult since they should be soldered.
Aluminum? Do you mean galvanized steel? In any case, it's not necessary
to solder gutters. Simply use a good gutter caulk, and they won't leak.
I did the ones on my house myself. Took about three weekends to lay, oh,
about 200' of gutter. Some tips:
1. To do it yourself, place a nail with a cord tied to it a few feet
to either side of the middle of the gutter section. Loop the cord
around the gutter and hang the gutter approximately in position.
Go to one end, and start nailing or hanging (however you choose to
attach it.
2. I tried to paint the galvanized gutters before putting them up,
which took A LOT of time (much more than to hang them). In retrospect,
I wouldn't do it again. We were going to paint the house anyway after
I put them up. I'd just let the house painters worry about it next
time.
3. To cut the gutters to the correct length, use an abrasive wheel on
a power drill. MUCH better than trying to do it with a hacksaw!
4. Don't sweat the grade of the gutter too much - level is okay. Just
make sure it doesn't slope the wrong way. I made the mistake of trying
to put a significant slope (maybe, 1 inch over 30') to the gutters,
and only ended up with them looking crooked (which probably only I
would notice, however). Remember that the idea is to make it so
they don't collect so much water as to get really heavy. You're not
designing an overflow for a reservoir.
5. I chose to hang them with those enormous nails that you pound through
the gutter and into the end of the rafter. That worked well, but if
you miss with the hammer it puts a pretty good dent in your gutter.
If I was going to do it again, I'd use the hangers. My next door
neighbor went that way, and it looked much easier and faster.
Personal opinion - I looked around the neighborhood a while first, trying
to decide whether to put up galvanized or snap-together plastic.
IMHO, the galvanized looks better and lasts longer. The plastic tends to
some in shorter sections, and gives a very uneven line to the gutter.
It also tends to come unsnaped - there were lots of houses that had
ends of plastic gutters hanging off into space. At my local hardware
store, the plastic was a lot more expensive, besides.
--
Blake P. Wood - b...@ctxsys.lanl.gov (505) 665-6524
Group P-1, MS-E526, LANL, Los Alamos, NM 87545
Peter Brooks
on installing plastic gutters. I replaced a rusted out galvanized
gutter with PVC, and found it to be pretty easy. When I redo my
roof (Real Soon Now), I'll replace the gutters. *that* will
be the easy part of the job.
BTW, aluminum gutters aren't soldered. They are pop-riveted, though
I don't know how the seams are sealed. Galvanized gutters are
soldered, and wood gutters (used to?) use lead seals. Plastic
gutters vary with brand. My Rain Go gutters use connector sections
with neoprene water seals. These are lubricated with silicone, since
the PVC will shrink and expand a lot.
I'm pretty happy with the Rain Go. They come in white and brown, but
I experimented and found that latex trim paint will stick to the
white and last quite well. My test piece is 2.5 years old and going
strong.
Pete Brooks
bill nelson
:
: 2. I tried to paint the galvanized gutters before putting them up,
: which took A LOT of time (much more than to hang them). In retrospect,
: I wouldn't do it again. We were going to paint the house anyway after
: I put them up. I'd just let the house painters worry about it next
: time.
I hope you don't have problems with paint adhesion. Paint sticks better to
galvanized metal if it is allowed to weather for a while before painting.
At least, that is what my books on house painting tell me.
: 4. Don't sweat the grade of the gutter too much - level is okay. Just
: make sure it doesn't slope the wrong way. I made the mistake of trying
: to put a significant slope (maybe, 1 inch over 30') to the gutters,
: and only ended up with them looking crooked (which probably only I
: would notice, however). Remember that the idea is to make it so
: they don't collect so much water as to get really heavy. You're not
: designing an overflow for a reservoir.
Sounds like you have never experienced a heavy rainfall. The recommended
slope is necessary in many parts of the country. In some cases, it is not
enough.
Bill
Gary Heston
>
> I've decided that if I want to actually grow anything in the flower
> beds next to the house, I need to put up gutters. But I also don't
> have the money to pay someone to do it. So I'd like some opinions
> on how hard it is to do yourself. It doesn't look that hard, but that
> usually means it looks easier than it is. Has anyone out there done
> this themselves? Do you have any words of wisdom from your experience?
Yes, I've done it. With aluminum gutters. Based on what I've seen
of vinyl, I'd recommend that instead. Vinyl is installed by screwing
or nailing (with galvanized fasteners) a bracket onto the trim. The
gutter itself then snaps into this, and it's up. With aluminum, you
and your helper (if you are lucky enough to have one, unlike me)
get to juggle an assembled chunk of gutter while poking a 10" long
nail through the outer rim, sliding a spacer over it, and then
driving it through the back of the gutter into the trim, maintaining
the slope all the while. Not very fun.
Build work platforms; a pair of 2' x 8' sections are a convenient
size (and easier to handle than a 4' x 8'); make sure the supports
are solid (basically, tall sawhorses with good braces), and remember
you're on them (don't step back to admire your handiwork).
This is assuming you have a one story house. If it involves two
story work, have someone with experience and equipment take care
of it.
Gary Heston, at home....
ga...@cdthq.uucp
Durba Murthy
We are looking to purchase our first home and noticed that one house we really
liked has a small crack in the ceiling between the dining and living room areas.The realtor explained that such a crack is very common in Split-Level homes and
that it is nothing to worry about. (We would of course get the house inspected
anyway). After seeing this house, we saw several houses which were also split-
level and noticed that all of them had this kind of crack. The length of the
crack varied, though. My questions are:
Is this really a harmless crack?
What causes it?
What does it take to fix it?
I would really appreciate if a knowledgeable netter could provide answers.
Thanks in advance.
-D. V. Murthy, dmu...@lerc.nasa.gov
Charles Packer
>slope is necessary in many parts of the country. In some cases, it is not
>enough.
And if you're keying the slope to the roofline (by installing
each hanger the prescribed amount lower relative to it as you go
along), make sure your house isn't tilted -- the wrong way! My
very old house gave me an unpleasant surprise this way. I had to
go back and adjust all the hangers until the gutter was almost
suspended in air at the rear of the house.
Dwight Tovey
now had installed them along the back roof edge. As far as I can tell, they
were properly installed. However, there is a lot of debris washed off the
roof there, and all this debris ends up in the gutter. Over the years some
of this debris has worked it's way under edge at the joints, causing a
slight build up there. When the sun comes out again and warms the PVC,
it gets soft and conforms to the shape of the debris build-up underneath.
The end result has been a 1/2-inch "bump" at the joints that allows water
to leak through, causing a leak at each joint. This may not be a problem
for most of you if you keep the gutters flushed out, or if you are willing
to replace the sections occasionally, but this seems like a lot of extra
work to me.
/dwight
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dwight Tovey | I didn't claw my way to the top of
Locus Computing Corp. | the food chain to eat vegetables.
(213)337-5978 |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Internet: dwi...@locus.com | The views I express are entirely my
UUCP: ...!uunet!lcc!dwight | own and do not in any way represent
MIL/BITNET: dwight%l...@UUNET.UU.NET | those of Locus Computing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
James Adams
first choice for buying! Certainly, with a split level home, one half of the house
is heavier than the other, but really! My aunt and uncle have a split level home in
the DC area that, after 30 years, has developed a very bad crack. This crack is
along the width of the house, though, not the depth as it seems to be inyour case.
To sell this house, they are going to have to do a LOT of work to shore up the
foundation and level the floors.
--
+---------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
|James Adams | "Why hold an election if we can't |
| sas...@unx.sas.com | win?" |
| | overheard in Algeria |
+---------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Peter Brooks
reaons I have to replace my gutters is the fact that they rusted
out. Granted, they had 58 years to do it in, but galvanized metal
will last longer if it stands some chance of drying out. You don't
need much pitch, but give it some.
Pete Brooks
Bob Tapp
Tovey) writes...
>Just a note about the PVC gutters. The previous owner of the house I'm in
>now had installed them along the back roof edge. As far as I can tell, they
>were properly installed. However, there is a lot of debris washed off the
>roof there, and all this debris ends up in the gutter. Over the years some
>of this debris has worked it's way under edge at the joints, causing a
>slight build up there. When the sun comes out again and warms the PVC,
>it gets soft and conforms to the shape of the debris build-up underneath.
>The end result has been a 1/2-inch "bump" at the joints that allows water
>to leak through, causing a leak at each joint. This may not be a problem
>for most of you if you keep the gutters flushed out, or if you are willing
>to replace the sections occasionally, but this seems like a lot of extra
>work to me.
If you phone the manufacturer, they might be able to advise you of a
remedy for this problem.
One brand that I installed (GSW?) had really strong vinyl spring clips
that snapped inside the ends of the gutters after they were installed in
the joiner. I've been thinking of complaining to them because the new
joiners I've seen in the stores no longer come with these clips.
Bob Tapp.
ta...@uvphys.phys.UVic.CA.
Peter Brooks
I'm not sure just what is now used to seal wood gutters. They are
quite rare in California (it's still fairly common to see houses
with *no* gutters). This is strictly a guess, but I'd suspect
sheet lead is still used. If it becomes an issue, let me know.
I think I've seen an article that covers this in Fine Homebuilding.
Pete Brooks
Doug Smith
When we had gutters installed (as part of some other work) they
were not hung properly. How did I know? I climbed on the
roof and poured water in the "highest" end and waited for
it to flow to the downspout. Two out five worked.
When the installers returned, I suggested that they put a small
amount of water in the end furthest from the downspout, then
adjust the gutter until they noticed the water moving toward
the downspout. They all work fine now!
Doug