How can I get a contractor to FINISH?!?!?
Nobody
I am a relatively new home owner (2 years). I recently started on a quest to
have a pocket door installed. I got myself a Penny Saver and called a few
"door installers". None wanted to come out to do a single door. I then
called a few general contractors. Same thing. None wanted to come out for
such a small project. Actually, one came out, on time, gave me an estimate
and I said I would let him know in a few days. 2 days later, I called him
back saying I wanted to go ahead with it and he said fine, he would send me
an estimate. A week passed with no response, so I gave him one more try and
he never returned my message.
Finally, people at work suggested that I should call a handy man, as they do
this type of smaller job. I called about 15. 10 of them didn't install
pocket doors. 3 didn't even know what a pocket door was. 2 said they do it
and came out to give me an estimate.
The first guy sounded like he knew what he was doing and said about all the
stuff he would do the "correct way" so I wouldn't have trouble down the
road. And he was an educated english speaking person, so I thought, great,
no miscommunication. He said he'll give me an estimate in a few days. Again,
I didn't hear anything from him. So I called him back. He gave me an
estimate over the phone, but said, suddenly he is not available for 2
months.
The 2nd guy came out and gave me the same ballpark estimate as the other
people and he could start when I wanted. Great. I signed him up.
So he started this Monday, came in on time at 8:30, but took off at 2:30.
Tuesday he came at 9:30 and left at 1:30. Wednesday he came at 2:30 and left
at 4:30.
He said he was coming back today at 9:00 to finally finish up, but hasn't
showed up yet at 2:00pm.
And quite frankly, I dont see how he can finish today. his first coat of
drywall mud was really sloppy. There is still finished carpentry to do, and
texture and paint everything. I don't see how he plans to fix the drywall
mud, texture and paint and do finished carpentry in two hours, but my guess
is he probably wont even show up. Not to mention that he cut a carpet too
short and damaged a floor.
I still have 50% of the bill left (about $700). And quite frankly, he looks
halfway done to me. If not less.
I know I don't have to pay him until he is done, but I also dont want this
to go on indefinitely.
Now that I look back, I should have seen a few warning signs, but hey, too
late for that.
He has left some construction material and a few tools and a shop vac.
Probably $200 to $300 worth of stuff.
I mean, I guess he could take the $300 hit (on the tools) and not finish the
job because it may not be worth it to him, but that means he is loosing
$1000 just for not showing up to finish his job.
Dee
bigger remodeling job ($$) but first you need to get this job finished.
After that, you can do anything you bloody well want.
Based on what you said, I don't have a good feeling about any of it. Good
luck.
Nobody
I will obviously give him some time to get back to me, but what about in
regards to his stuff if he never calls back? how much time should I give him
before I get someone to finish the job and what do I do with the stuff he
left?
"Dee" <Nob...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:goOpd.43240$g21....@fe1.texas.rr.com...
Phreak
work or call you because he only gets one phone call.
"Nobody" <nob...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:kLNpd.172826$G15.58746@fed1read03...
Dee
person in the world and doesn't know how to tell you.
I can't imagine he'd go off and leave expensive items behind. At some point
after being left behind, property becomes abandoned. The person in whose
care it is must make a concerted effort, more than one attempt via certified
mail, to put the owner on notice before dispensing with the property.
But that's way down the road, if it happens at all, and it probably won't.
It's only been a couple days, right? I know you want your work completed,
but give it a few more days. I'm sure you'll hear from him.
(Can you reach him by phone?)
Nobody
mail and tried reaching his partner as well. I am unable to reach either
one. I think his partner is out of town though. Like I said, I spoke to the
main guy this morning at 10:00am and he said he was going to finish today
(which I found hard to believe, but didn't say anything) and he just didn't
show up. No phone call, nothing. And he was supposed to be at my place at
8:30am to 9:00am.
Now that I have looked at it closer, most of it was cheap crap like gloves,
a hammer, etc. The main stuff is a contractors metal t-square, a shop vac, a
level and a contractors RIGID drill. I'm not sure how much all that is
worth, but maybe $300 was overpricing it.
I don't know, half the signs point to them abandoning the job and half the
signs point to them not...
When the one guy disappeared, about 5hrs later, I finally reached him and he
said he didn't feel well after lunch. He didn't bother to tell me either.
I know I am not their keepers or anything and they can do whatever they
want, but I think its highly unprofessional to disappear off jobs or not
show up or show up hours late without calling the person.
As for him not being direct, he is actually pretty rude (again, totally
different impression from the estimate call). I would ask him about
something or want something different and he would actually start yelling at
me. On Wednesday, I had to call him and he went into lecture mode during a
discussion "when you are talking, I listen, now I talk and you listen, etc".
Maybe he has had it with me. I don't know. I think I am pretty laid back and
nice to people. Never had a single disagreement or anything other then
friendly words with his partner (even though he was very non punctual as
well after the first day).
At this point, I am not sure I even want to deal with them anymore and I am
skeptical about their ability to do finish quality work since even the rough
in was pretty sloppy.
Anyway, can you give me more specifics on how long I should wait to hear
from them and how long I should hold the stuff?
I don't want to get sued for throwing out his stuff or if he picked up some
materials for my job and then he will try to have me pay for it.
I had one contractor leave a 8' to 10' ladder in my house. For about 3
months before he claimed it. I don't want to be storage facility either.
As for if he picked up materials and trys to charge me for them, as I said,
I will need to get the carpet repaired (because he cut it too short) and
linoleum repaired as well. So that would probably set us even.
"Dee" <Nob...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:CLRpd.32768$KQ2....@fe2.texas.rr.com...
TURTLE
This is Turtle
I don't know about the people that work around in your part of the country but
here for a pocket door as you say. it can be any number of different styles and
sizes but here. That's a one day job and maybe part of the second day to come
back to paint and touch up some missed places.
Here they can install a complete door in a bed room area to go outside through a
brick wall where there is nothing there to start with in one day Max. They may
have to come back the second day to recoat the paint job but just to touch up
the job. A friend of mine had one put in his bed room to to go out to a pool
area and the cost was Material cost at hardware store charged to him $197.00 +
$300.00. It took 6 hours and 1 hour the second day to touch up the paint job.
The friend did this job and then called the Carpet store to come lay tile around
the inside area and cut the carpet off. $121.00 Total. You just don't get a
Carpenter or a handy man messing with carpet or tile. Carpenters, Electricians,
HVAC Techs, Handy Men, and Plumbers know how to mess it up but Carpet people
know how to fix it.
I think this hand is just got over his head with this job but he maybe very ill
or like a old plumber told me about a hand that would not show up after starting
a job. He Said " There is just not enough hours in the day and not enough Coke
to work all day" . I never ask him if the Coke was a Soda Pop or something
else.
You may call him and ask about him being ill and see for He could be ill by
taking this long.
TURTLE
Nobody
I live in Southern California where prices are high and craftsmanship is
generally poor and very low quality. I don't want to say everybody in So.
Cal does poor work, but the general consensus I have seen from tradespeople
that have worked on my house is that they are sloppy and in a rush to get
done and out. I have had two electricians, a backyard landscaper and three
drywallers (so far).
Electrician #1: Called them in for recessed lights on the 2nd floor with
attic access. They came on time, were friendly, and finished in one day. BUT
they scuffed several walls, cut two incorrect recessed light holes, made a
lot of screw driver holes to find the studs in the ceiling and needlessly
cut a whole in the wall in my bedroom because they didn't want to reuse
existing electrical wire. Here in so. cal, they typically seal around light
switches and outlets with caulk to make it look nice. A normal person would
take a utility knife and score the caulk. These guys just ripped off the
plates and took off a bit of paint around all the outlets. Also, I have
decora style light switches where to look nice they have to be done flush
and straight. These were all reinstalled sloppily and I had to redo them. 4
recessed lights x 3 rooms (12 lights) and 2 bathroom fans to replace
existing fixtures.
Drywall guy #1: to repair the damage from electrician #1. always came on
time, nice guy, but did lousy work, all his patches were un even and not
even close in texture.
Electrician #2: 4 recessed lights and 2 in-ceiling speakers on the first
floor, no attic access, going perpendicular to the beams. He literally
turned that room... walls and ceilings into swiss cheese. Made about 11
access holes. I asked this guy and 2 guys I called in before him to go
through the floor off the room upstairs (that has carpet) instead of through
the drywall after the first experience). They all refused to do it that way.
Drywaller #2: called in to fix the damage from electrician #2. This guy was
totally unprofessional. First thing he did was take a 10 minute crap and
stunk up the place. he half assed all the patches, there was mesh tape
exposed, uneven texture, uneven mud work, etc.
Drywaller #3: called in a "patch specialist" to fix the damage from
drywallers #1 & #2. He was friendly, came on time most of the time and did a
good job downstairs, but kind of slacked off upstairs and those patches
aren't that great.
And now handyman #1...
I'll need to call a drywall guy, a carpet repair man, a linoleum repair man
and a carpenter to clean up his mess.
You may ask why I paid these people if I was not happy with the work. Well,
the electricians are not really responsible for the drywall and state that
up front. The two drywall guys who did bad jobs... well, they charged very
little, around $200 to $300 for a lot of patches, and I thought... A) if
they claim THAT is done, it ain't gonna get much better and B) here in so.
cal you get an attitude of "you are being too picky" when you complain
Maybe this handyman did get in over his head, but he said he does a lot of
large jobs and room additions, etc. I can not imagine someone would give him
$25k for a room addition and him doing the same quality of work.
Like I said, the estimate was for around $1400 and that was because some
shelves in the closet needed to be moved/adjusted, a fake wall had to be
built in the closet and a large pass through type doorway had to be framed
in to reduce it to size and some finished carpentry/molding work, plus new
drywall and drywall repair, texture and paint. Oh, and a light switch and
towel bar had to be moved as well. So I thought it was a reasonable for the
amount of work.
I guess if he bails or I have to call in another drywall guy, I will sand
down all the walls that I am unhappy with corner to corner and just have a
painter reshoot the texture all the way.
These experiences have definitely soured me on home remodeling. I guess I
can't really blame the electricians because they are generally not finished
work type people, but they were overly sloppy and overly eager to cut down
walls.
But the drywallers and this handyman were supposed to be.
"TURTLE" <lee...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:30qi50F...@uni-berlin.de...
Bill
you should have gotten a "Contract" before he started work! That way,
he would understand you will take him to court for not abiding by the
terms defined in the contract.
Contract
Scope of work detailing every item of work he is responsible for
A timeline detailing what he will have done by what date (keep in mind
a contractor has no control over weather which brings outdoor work to
a standstill)
Hold back at least a third of the money until he has finished the job
Write it up something like this:
Contract for installation of pocket door
Payment terms one third upon receipt of all materials on the jobsite
two thirds when the job is completed satisfactorily
if contractor has not finished after ten rainfree working days he
forfeits the remaining two thirds of the contract price and homeowner
hires another contractor to complete the work!
Write it like that and the jacklegs will back out real quick!
Regards,
Bill
Paul Pluzhnikov
> Is this "par for the course" with contractors, etc?
Yes, this was exactly my friends' experience in Pasadena :-(
It would seem that one could make a killing in SoCal doing small
jobs non-sloppily and on-time. Maybe I should try that when I retire
from programming ;-)
Cheers,
--
In order to understand recursion you must first understand recursion.
Remove /-nsp/ for email.
Bill
hope he finishes. It's not like you can go out and find someone else to
finish the job. So be very nice and patient with this guy. (Offer him
water, cookies, etc. while he is working.) Maybe he got drunk and has a
hangover. Maybe he has other projects in the works. Who knows?
If you start complaining about everything, calling constantly, pressuring
and threatening him with legal action, etc. He may just not come back and
may not care about the money.
If you had a choice of many different contractors to choose from, that
would be different. But it sounds like this is the only person you could
find to do the work? Give him a month, then if still not done, consider
your options....
"Nobody" wrote in message
Nobody
"Bill" <big...@carolina.rr.com> wrote in message
news:dj8hq0l4p77qhror7...@4ax.com...
Thanks for the info Bill. Is this really doable for the smaller jobs? I'm
guessing yes, but... For a larger job, I would have done this, but for a
smaller job (in Southern California) you often can only get
"un-professionals". The one guy I wanted that seemed very professional
wouldn't do it for 2 or 3 months (and there was no guarantee he would do it
then), so I got a kind of flaky impression from him that he didn't want to
do it because "something suddenly came up".
If I want to hold back 2/3s, but the contractor wants 1/2 (for materials,
etc), how do I handle that?
I realize I could keep looking for the rest of my life, but these guys were
the only ones even willing to do the job.
It is hard in So. California to find people to do "non standard" jobs. You
can easily find a plumber, electrician, tile, countertop, etc. but when it
comes to smaller non-standard jobs, you need to beg people to do it.
Nobody
>
> Yes, this was exactly my friends' experience in Pasadena :-(
>
> It would seem that one could make a killing in SoCal doing small
> jobs non-sloppily and on-time. Maybe I should try that when I retire
> from programming ;-)
LOL, yup. I am 29 and already ready to retire from programming :).
Unfortunately, the reality is that doing a non-sloppy job and doing it
quickly is an oxymoron.
But for my pocket door install, he should (and easily could have):
Monday: demolition, framing, hang door, hang drywall, first coat of mud
Tuesday morning: sand first coat, do second coat of mud
Tuesday afternoon: texture
Wednesday: finished carpentry, primer
Friday: final coat of paint, clean up
And maybe that could have been compressed into 3 days if it dried fast
enough.
Now, I doubt I will have this finished anytime soon. I need to fix a lot of
the sloppyness and damage.
Nobody
guy I could get. I am totally backing off this guy and will give him some
time, but chances are he will never call me back and if he got a bigger job,
then he probably doesn't care about the money because he is making it up on
the next job.
But actually at the point the project is, I can get someone else to finish
it. I can do some of the adjustments/fixes myself and sand down all the
drywall so its nice and smooth. Then just call in a carpenter to do the
molding/shelving, a painter to retexture/paint and a carpet/linoleum guy to
fix the floor.
"Bill" <bill19...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:30rt2bF...@uni-berlin.de...
Dave Balderstone
wrote:
> Unfortunately, the reality is that doing a non-sloppy job and doing it
> quickly is an oxymoron.
It's the rule of "2 of 3".
Good
Cheap
Fast
... Pick two.
Amazing how many situations it applies to. I haven't found one yet.
Nobody
> and threatening him with legal action, etc. He may just not come back and
> may not care about the money.
For the most part, I pretty much left them alone (just peeking in once in a
while) UNTIL they started disappearing and not showing up. Even then, I
think I was pretty polite about it, I didn't yell at them or anything. I did
point out a couple of things along the way though. Is that how I should
handle things? If someone frames a wall crooked, shouldn't I point that out
at the framing stage? or should I wait til everything is done so they either
refuse to fix it or need to tear everything down? This is a brand new house
and the builder made some crooked walls. I pointed them out early and they
actually tore them down and rebuilt them. When I noticed another crooked
wall towards the end, they just tried to hide it with different molding.
In the current case, for example, I pointed out that a electrical box was
too low and crooked AFTER he installed the switches and switch plate and
started patching the drywall. Obviously he had no intention of fixing it. I
realize there is some adjustment and play in them and he could have adjusted
the crookedness, but not that it was too low. And is he going to cut into
drywall after he has patched it only to patch it again? probably not. Is he
going to magically put back the carpet he cut all jagged and too short?
probably not. Is he going to fix a crooked wall after everything is done?
again, probably not. They'd just give me the I'm "being too picky" line.
And this is after his first coat of mud/caulk was LITERALLY SMEARED on the
wall like a kid fingerpainting. Half the screws and tape are exposed. I
watch This Old House and Hometime. I know what a first coat is supposed to
look like. And one drywaller I had did a good job downstairs and I saw how
his first coat looked. Now obviously, for a TV show they are going to be
perfectionists, but still, I take that into account.
I dunno, I will admit I am pretty picky. But I think I give people a chance
to do it right. I guess I have to give them more chance in the future. When
I was getting shutters put in and pointed out a problem with one, the
installer was pretty rude and pretty much told me to get the hell out of his
way. Ok, he fixed it and my concern was unwarranted. But some things like
framing, etc are easier fixed when in the framing stage.
On the other hand, I guess I get annoyed when someone watches over my
shoulder when I'm doing something :).
Dee
I think this says it all. Consider this a hard-won lesson.
My husband is a drywall contractor. Too bad you're not in Texas. Good luck
to you. You'll probably be hearing from your guy by Monday.
Jonathan Kamens
>I live in Southern California where prices are high and craftsmanship is
>generally poor and very low quality.
I don't think this is unique to Southern California. It has been my
experience in Boston as well that reliable craftsmen who do good work
are few and far between. Also, many of the ones who do good work
within their areas of expertise have the annoying habit of saying yes
when you ask them if they can do something *out* of their area of
expertise as part of a project, rather than admitting that they won't
do a good job of it and recommending that you bring in someone else for
that part of the job.
We hired a landscaper to redo our back yard after we moved into our
house in 1997. For the most part, he did a really great job. However,
the work ended up taking over 50% longer than his estimate and hence
the cost was over 50% higher than his estimate. When it was clear the
the cost was starting to get out of hand, we sent him a polite letter
pointing out that the overruns were getting excessive and asking him to
absorb part of them by reducing his hourly rate for the remainder of
the project. After that, he finished what absolutely had to be
finished and then disappeared, never to return any of our phone calls
again. I don't think we were being unreasonable; and I doubt he
thought that we were being unreasonable -- he just decided it made more
financial sense for him to cut and run than to honor his commitment
(i.e., the estimate he gave us and the work he agreed to perform).
We had an electrician who did absolutely amazing work, but he was
consistently behind schedule and seemed to have an endless supply of
excuses. Friends of ours who had recommended him to us used him when
they redid their kitchen, and he failed to show up so many times, with
so many ludicrous excuses, that he delayed the completion of their
project significantly and the contractor was mighty peeved. Plain and
simple, he was terrible at managing his time, needed the money too much
to turn people down when he wouldn't be able to do their work in a
timely fashion, and was apparently too conflict-aversive to tell people
the truth when he couldn't do work within the promised timeframe.
We had a handyman replace some windows in our attic. We informed him
when he came to bid on the work that the sashes' paint was leaded and
that we'd had a lead inspection and intended to legally delead the
house, and we asked him to confirm that he was legally allowed to
remove leaded window sashes and to dispose of them properly. He
assured us that he was, and then he proceeded to do the work without
any containment curtains or air filtration and to dispose of the sashes
by putting them out at the curb in front of our house for trash pickup,
thus exposing both him and us to legal action for improper lead-paint
disposal. He also cut halfway through one of our house's support beams
when installing clothesdryer venting we asked him to install.
We hired a contractor to rebuild our front porch, replace all of our
windows (other than the ones replaced by the idiot mentioned above) and
delead our house (through a subcontractor). He used tongue and groove
boards for the floor, even though I've learned since then that any
idiot knows that you don't use tongue and groove boards for outdoor
floors in climates like ours because they warp after the first winter
(which ours did). At least he finished on time and within his budget,
and the rest of his work was very good (although I dont' think he put
enough insulation into the wall cavities when replacing the windows).
We had a mason replace our concrete stoop. His masonry work was
great. We mentioned to him in passing that we were planning on
installing a new outer bulkhead door, and he said he could do it, but
he made the door open in rather than out and cut through a support
beam to do it (What *is it* about these people and support beams!?
Don't they understand what a *support beam* is?). On the bright side,
when we complained, he fixed the beam and fixed the door to open in
the other direction. I'd hire him again for masonry work, but not for
anything else.
We had good painters paint about half of the inside of our house a few
years back. They pretty much finished on time and on budget, and did a
good enough job for what we were paying them, including doing a great
job on replacing several of our ceilings. Unfortunately, when we
wanted to do more painting a few years later, we discovered that they
were no longer in business.
We had a plumber who was friendly and showed up when he said he would,
but his work was messy, the drain pipes in a laundry sink he installed
for us leaks, and when I called him to ask if he had accidentally taken
an extension cord I loaned him for one of his jobs in our house, which
I thought was a perfectly reasonable an innocuous question (I certainly
wasn't trying to imply that he'd taken it on purpose!), he acted all
offended at my suggestion that he might have done this, presumably
because he thought I was accusing him of doing it on purpose, and since
then hasn't returned my calls for subsequent jobs.
We recently found a new electrician, and so far he's been great. He
even came back at no charge to fix a problem with some work he did in
our kitchen, and was perfectly nice about it. So far he's our
existence proof that the good guys do in fact exist :-).
The overarching lessons I've learned from all these experiences are:
* It's hard to find good people because the good people always have
more than enough work to keep them busy, because the people they've
done work for in the past *know* they're good and keep directing work
and/or new clients their way.
* If anybody tells you to call so-and-so because "he's always
available," run as fast as you can in the opposite direction. If
someone is always available, it's because they don't get any repeat
business, i.e., they're bad.
* Ask everyone you know for recommendations. Don't ever use anyone who
wasn't recommended by someone, and don't ever use anyone without
checking their references.
* You may have to wait a long time to get someone good to do work for
you. As you've noticed, small jobs are much harder to find people for
than larger jobs, so one option is to collect a bunch of jobs, to make
it attractive enough for workmen to come to your house, and then hire a
reputable contractor (recommended, with good references!) to get them
all done.
v
>.... Then just call in a carpenter to do the
>molding/shelving, a painter to retexture/paint and a carpet/linoleum guy to
>fix the floor.
>
"Just"? Look what it took to find the first guy. Think finding these
others for what is now an even smaller job, will be any easier????
Reply to NG only - this e.mail address goes to a kill file.
v
>He said he was coming back today at 9:00 to finally finish up, but hasn't
>showed up yet at 2:00pm.
<much cut>>
>He has left some construction material and a few tools and a shop vac.
>Probably $200 to $300 worth of stuff.
>
>I mean, I guess he could take the $300 hit (on the tools) and not finish the
>job because it may not be worth it to him, but that means he is loosing
>$1000 just for not showing up to finish his job.
>
Sheesh, GET A GRIP. Ok, guy missed an appointment. Its still the
SAME DAY. Maybe he'll call tonight to reschedule. It is much much
MUCH to soon to be speculating that he is never coming back and you
are going to take his tools.
He screwed up. Maybe he didn't write it in his book. Maybe he went
to an emergancy elsewhere. Maybe he had a personal problem. Either
way it is WAY to early to be puffing this up in your mind as you are.
From the title of your post, I though you had been chasing the
contractor for MONTHS. Instead its just been ONE day. Annoying?
Yes. A Big Deal? NO!
But a perfect example of why DIY is popular for small jobs!!!!
-v.
v
>Write it up something like this:
>
<cut>>
>if contractor has not finished after ten rainfree working days he
>forfeits the remaining two thirds of the contract price and homeowner
>hires another contractor to complete the work!
>
>Write it like that and the jacklegs will back out real quick!
>
No you idiot. OP had to call about 20 people to even get someone to
look at the job. What do think you are building, Hoover dam? It is
not a "contract" until both sides agree - shove an offer like that in
front of somebody, and what they will be doing "real quick" is walking
away from the job in the first place!
Just how often do you claim you have been able to get a contractor to
agree to that clause on a small inside job (which has nothing to do
with rain-free anyway)????
skeptical,
Mike
a time when people are home improvement crazy, there are more jobs
than qualified workers. The guy who has time to do this little project
probably doesn't have a client list that keeps him active. I used to
to do framing on houses when I was in college and I'll have to say
that most of the "skilled" workers were ex-cons and/or drunks.
Amazingly unreliable and lazy to boot. You can't expect much from them
and if you want the real professionals you won't want that bill
either. I suggest you DIY and learn something. Unless you are
disabled, you can probably do this job yourself and will cost you
about 1/4 of what he quoted. You will take twice as long to complete
(maybe) but you will also take away the satisfaction of a job you
completed yourself. If you can critque crooked walls and mud-jobs, you
can handle it. If you want something done right, DIY. Anytime I need
to do something, I buy a book on it or research it on the net and
figure it out myself. I would consider a pocket door to be a weekend
project if you ask me and no I don't do that kind of work for a
living. I sit behind a desk for the most part.
"Nobody" <nob...@cox.net> wrote in message news:<PY6qd.176377$G15.87823@fed1read03>...