Do you want your tax money to pay a forklift operator $103,000.00 a year
hp...@lycos.com
The write your folks in Congress and oppose the "bailout" of
terminally-ill General Motors. The correct path is for GM to file for
protectiong under Chapter 11 and hopefully reorganize. Contact via
site listed below:
http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/
Mitch
freeisbest
> http://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070924073107AA...
>
> The write your folks in Congress and oppose the "bailout" of
> terminally-ill General Motors. The correct path is for GM to file for
> protectiong under Chapter 11 and hopefully reorganize. Contact via
> site listed below:
>
> http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/
>
> Mitch
"Do you want your tax money to pay a forklift operator $103,000.00
a year" Nope. Didn't want my money to fund the invasion of another
country, either. Or be used as the football in games in the Iraq
desert. Or be given as a present to 'financial institutions' that
could count using both hands and a calculator. Or....
Jeffrey Laventure
(in article
<ce2ae528-64e0-4d8a...@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>):
Then I suggest you vote more conservatives into office. Before you say it,
McCain is a liberal Democrat contrary to his purported political party
affiliation.
clams_casino
I'm not sure that will work. Regan and the two Bushes were the ones
who rang up most all the government debt -
http://www.marktaw.com/culture_and_media/TheNationalDebt.html
In recent years, conservatives have primarily borrowed to enrich
themselves - essentially borrowing from the masses to enrich the wealthy.
h
"Jeffrey Laventure" <thin...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C5458EB2...@news.sf.sbcglobal.net...
caused this mess?
zzbu...@netscape.net
> http://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070924073107AA...
>
> terminally-ill General Motors. The correct path is for GM to file for
> protectiong under Chapter 11 and hopefully reorganize. Contact via
> site listed below:
Well, the idiots in Congress are just as much a brick wall with
communications as GM itself with Forklifts. So the people with
ComputerEngineering/Science.Robot/Medicine brains, invented
Elbraries, CD+rw, DVD->, HDTV[],
On-Line-Publishing, AAVs, AUVs, XML, All-In-One printers, Post AT&T
Optics,
and USB, rather than worring about what ANY Detroit Druids do fo' a
living,
>
> http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/
>
> Mitch
George Grapman
figure salaries who made bad decisions.
Truth...@nospam.net
> Interesting that the poster made no mention of executives with seven
>figure salaries who made bad decisions.
Nor did they bring up civil servants that earn that much with overtime.
Seems they are only pissed at union boys.
Jeffrey Laventure
(in article <JY0Uk.1850$mi4...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>):
Nor sports. music and movie stars who are make an an obscene paycheck for
providing little value to society.
Kitty
Yep and its funny how that phenomenon works too, they suddenly KNOW they are
the expert on everything. Because we pay them enormous amounts of money to
amuse us , {think court jester here}they are the smartest creatures on earth
and tell us so anytime we "forget".
Kitty
The Real Bev
> "Jeffrey Laventure" <thin...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>> Nor sports. music and movie stars who are make an an obscene paycheck for
>> providing little value to society.
>
> Yep and its funny how that phenomenon works too, they suddenly KNOW they are
> the expert on everything. Because we pay them enormous amounts of money to
> amuse us , {think court jester here}they are the smartest creatures on earth
> and tell us so anytime we "forget".
Fortunately a number of them left the country because Bush was elected,
just as they'd promised to do. Oh, wait...
--
Cheers,
Bev
----------------------------------------------
"Tough? We drink our urine and eat our dead!"
-- N. Heilweil
Wilm...@gmail.com
> Interesting that the poster made no mention of executives with seven
> figure salaries who made bad decisions.
Those executives who make millions don't spend their money either.
They stack it up real high and dive off into a pool of money and swim
in it, afterwards light cigars with $100 bills before jetting of to
Aruba or the Caymans to hide their money from the tax man. When they
die the money goes tooffspring who never have to contribute to
society.
On the other hand, the union workers pay mortgages and send their
kids to college. They pay taxes, eat in restaurants and have their
haircut at the local barber. When they die they leave a little for
family.
Why do we attack each other and say nothing as the rich continue to
get richer?
Billzz
"Kitty" <cowg...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:y63Uk.60787$XT1....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
When Ted Williams retired from baseball, so did I. I have not, and will
not, pay a cent to see nine millionaires frolic in the field. But on the
other hand, I was thinking about paying five thousand dollars to see Luciano
Pavarotti (and the other two tenors) in Houston, Texas. Fortunately, they
cancelled the concert. Not enough fools like me. So everyone has their
weakness.
Evelyn
"Billzz" <billzz...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:e2df6$49210698$9440b19b$13...@STARBAND.NET...
Pavarotti was a once in a lifetime tenor.
Sadly, it is too late to hear him live now.
--
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
(Our) enemies are not man. They are intolerance, fanaticism, dictatorship,
cupidity, hatred and discrimination, which lie within the heart of man." --
Thich Nhat Hanh
Kitty
<Wilm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f6b25f1e-3ad3-48d8...@v22g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
================================
Because we live in a capitalistic society. This is the land of
opportunity, you have choices, some choose to have mediocre jobs and live
paycheck to paycheck, others start their own businesses, others live off
taxpayers, still others acquire wealth. That's why this is the USA and not
Cuba. I applaud rich people, they have the freedom to make wealth, just like
everyone else. But many take the easy route and live day to day, that's
their choice.
Kitty
tmc...@searchmachine.com
> ================================
> Because we live in a capitalistic society. This is the land of
> opportunity, you have choices, some choose to have mediocre jobs and live
> paycheck to paycheck, others start their own businesses, others live off
> taxpayers, still others acquire wealth. That's why this is the USA and not
> Cuba. I applaud rich people, they have the freedom to make wealth, just like
> everyone else. But many take the easy route and live day to day, that's
> their choice.
>
> Kitty
Acquiring wealth is not "something you choose". If you work hard, you
might
get wealthy, you might just eke by day to day. I chose to start a
business.
I have worked very hard, every day, for 30 years. Until 2000, my
business
grew quite nicely every year. During the last 8 years, however, I
have
watched my customer base dwindle due to the economy. I'm just hoping
to hang
on until the economy makes the turn so I don't have to close my doors
and
take one of those "mediocre jobs" you mentioned.
You really think that working hard is "living day to day" and that's
the
"easy route"? What freakin' planet are you from and when are you going
back?
Kitty
<tmc...@searchmachine.com> wrote in message
news:bcedd46f-0946-458c...@e38g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
========================
Having the guts to start your own business is not common. The "average" joe,
will do what they are told, or fall into a job,,,,,,,easy. Having gumption
to do something is much different. Sitting on ass or making minimum wage,
collecting welfare is easy.
Kitty
Jim1...@gmail.com
wrote:
Daughter had tickets for several years to hear him here in DC. She
regularly goes to such fare and is really into it. She never did see
him and traded the tickets for something else.
I am in awe at such talent but learned early that attending opera,
ballet, and such as his programs got me some great sleep but in very
uncomfortable chairs at expensive prices.
DC is a great place for entertainment as there is always something. We
watch the Kennedy Center's Millenium Stage schedule close as their
performances are free. First come first seated and there is a
different performance every day! One of the little unknowns things I
never knew until daughter began taking me several years ago to things
she knew I'd like.
http://www.kennedy-center.org/programs/millennium/schedule.html
Evelyn
<Jim1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ir03i4927qier2ts8...@4ax.com...
Wow...."FREE performances every day"
That's great. Since my area has great proximity to NYCity, we get a lot of
top name entertainment, but it is seldom free. Although we do get some
good classical concerts for free at some of the local churches.
Werner
Non-union workers pay mortgages also. Besides, when the Fed floods
banks with money to lend workers get jobs and are happy with the money
just like the rich.
Besides, when the Fed floods the banks with money it also causes
inflation. This is why interest rates were set higher and the happy
workers could no longer afford their mortgages. And when you have
inflation cash becomes worth less while assets hold real value. The
rich have more assets. So the Fed, a creation of Congress, contributes
to the widening wealth and income gap. So remember your benevolent
government for another unintended consequence mess.
Werner
> <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote in message
You are quite correct and should be applauded. What business are you
in? Based on the stock markets and employment numbers, lots of
businesses have done well the last 8 years until recently while
interest rates were low.
Jim1...@gmail.com
wrote:
I trimmed out some of the crosspostings in the original but felt
leaving it for the frugal living and vets may work for some folks who
may come this way.
When guests come from out of town, we always try to see what is
playing there as a diversion since most of the time there will be
something good that they or us would probably have not included in our
regular fare. But, it is always a good program. It is a great
evening going to dinner in the Kennedy Center area and then see a free
show. None of guests have complained.
Daughter volunteers at Smithsonian, PBS, and some other groups so
comes up with all kinds of intersting things to do.
Fred Lorenzen
news:1d1f2d3f-4963-44bb...@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
:
A General Motors UAW employee average pay including base pay,
cost-of-living adjustments, night-shift premiums, overtime, holiday and
vacation pay is 39.68 an hour. Add health-care, pension, and other
benefits average another $33.58 an hour. That brings the total average
hourly compensation for a General Motors UAW employee to $73.26 an hour.
Perhaps Mr. Michael E. Levine's Wall Street Journal recent article will
shed some light on General Motor's current financial problems ->
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122688631448632421.html
Regards,
Fred
Rod Speed
> On Nov 16, 9:29 pm, Wilma6...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Nov 16, 11:17 am, George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting that the poster made no mention of executives with seven
>>> figure salaries who made bad decisions.
>>
>> Those executives who make millions don't spend their money either.
>> They stack it up real high and dive off into a pool of money and swim
>> in it, afterwards light cigars with $100 bills before jetting of to
>> Aruba or the Caymans to hide their money from the tax man. When they
>> die the money goes tooffspring who never have to contribute to
>> society.
>>
>> On the other hand, the union workers pay mortgages and send their
>> kids to college. They pay taxes, eat in restaurants and have their
>> haircut at the local barber. When they die they leave a little for
>> family.
>>
>> Why do we attack each other and say nothing as the rich continue to
>> get richer?
>
>
> Non-union workers pay mortgages also. Besides, when the Fed floods
> banks with money to lend workers get jobs and are happy with the money
> just like the rich.
> Besides, when the Fed floods the banks with money it also
> causes inflation. This is why interest rates were set higher
Nope, the interest rates went higher because the economy was doing well.
> and the happy workers could no longer afford their mortgages.
Only a fool borrows so much at variable interest rates that they cant afford
the payments when the interest rates inevitably return to normal levels.
> And when you have inflation cash becomes worth less while assets
> hold real value. The rich have more assets. So the Fed, a creation
> of Congress, contributes to the widening wealth and income gap.
No it doesnt. And with sub prime loans even the nothing like rich can own real estate assets.
> So remember your benevolent government for another unintended consequence mess.
It wasnt even an unintended effect, let alone a mess.
Daniel
SpaMe...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> <hp...@lycos.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1d1f2d3f-4963-44bb...@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> :
> : The write your folks in Congress and oppose the "bailout" of
> : terminally-ill General Motors. The correct path is for GM to file for
> : protectiong under Chapter 11 and hopefully reorganize. Contact via
> : site listed below:
> :
> :http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/
> :
> : Mitch
>
> A General Motors UAW employee average pay including base pay,
> cost-of-living adjustments, night-shift premiums, overtime, holiday and
> vacation pay is 39.68 an hour. Add health-care, pension, and other
> benefits average another $33.58 an hour. That brings the total average
> hourly compensation for a General Motors UAW employee to $73.26 an hour.
>
> Perhaps Mr. Michael E. Levine's Wall Street Journal recent article will
> shed some light on General Motor's current financial problems ->
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122688631448632421.html
>
> Regards,
> Fred
$73 an hour to hold a tool?? And the automakers want MY tax dollars?
You UAW members can go fuck yourselves.
Werner
> Werner <whetz...@mac.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 16, 9:29 pm, Wilma6...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Nov 16, 11:17 am, George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
>
> >>> Interesting that the poster made no mention of executives with seven
> >>> figure salaries who made bad decisions.
>
> >> Those executives who make millions don't spend their money either.
> >> They stack it up real high and dive off into a pool of money and swim
> >> in it, afterwards light cigars with $100 bills before jetting of to
> >> Aruba or the Caymans to hide their money from the tax man. When they
> >> die the money goes tooffspring who never have to contribute to
> >> society.
>
> >> On the other hand, the union workers pay mortgages and send their
> >> kids to college. They pay taxes, eat in restaurants and have their
> >> haircut at the local barber. When they die they leave a little for
> >> family.
>
> >> Why do we attack each other and say nothing as the rich continue to
> >> get richer?
>
> > Non-union workers pay mortgages also. Besides, when the Fed floods
> > banks with money to lend workers get jobs and are happy with the money
> > just like the rich.
> > Besides, when the Fed floods the banks with money it also
> > causes inflation. This is why interest rates were set higher
>
> Nope, the interest rates went higher because the economy was doing well.
>
Exactly. It heated up the economy and created an inflation bubble. So
the Fed regulated the interest rate up.
> > and the happy workers could no longer afford their mortgages.
>
> Only a fool borrows so much at variable interest rates that they cant afford
> the payments when the interest rates inevitably return to normal levels.
>
> > And when you have inflation cash becomes worth less while assets
> > hold real value. The rich have more assets. So the Fed, a creation
> > of Congress, contributes to the widening wealth and income gap.
>
> No it doesnt. And with sub prime loans even the nothing like rich can own real estate assets.
>
Normally, assets hold value when cash does not. One reason people buy
property is as a hedge against inflation. Rich people have more
property.
zzbu...@netscape.net
> Kitty wrote:
> > "Jeffrey Laventure" <thinh...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >> Nor sports. music and movie stars who are make an an obscene paycheck for
> >> providing little value to society.
>
> > Yep and its funny how that phenomenon works too, they suddenly KNOW they are
> > the expert on everything. Because we pay them enormous amounts of money to
> > amuse us , {think court jester here}they are the smartest creatures on earth
> > and tell us so anytime we "forget".
>
> Fortunately a number of them left the country because Bush was elected,
> just as they'd promised to do. Oh, wait...
Since half of them left the known universe entirely about 50 years,
the only people really waiting for them to return is Oprah and
Rupert Murdoch though.
Since the rest of us are still banking on Post GM Robotics, rather
than
wanks from the Wal-Mart Awards.
Wilm...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
$73 an hour is about 2,900 a week, or cloose to $150,000 a year. Good
money but not obsene. Sports figures make more in one year than the GM
worker will make in a lifetime, for playing a game for part of a year.
Executives make millions a year if not millions a month. even if they
run the company into the ground, and when they are fired they are
giving a severence package that is more than the GM worker will make
and his childrens' children in their lifetimes.
GM workers spend their money locally. Henry Ford was the first of the
automakers to pay his workers a good wage, his reasoning was that if
you pay the workers well they will buy the things that are
manufactured. Make the GM worker unemployed and there are hundreds of
small buisness that will suffer.
zzbu...@netscape.net
That's seemed to be because Ford knew how car manufacturing
worked,
And the only thing the GM Bozos ever seemd to even half
understood
about cars, A.I. computers, gasoline, oil, science, engineering,
medicine, or
economics entirely is how Howard Hughes works.
Rod Speed
>>>> George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote
>>>>> Interesting that the poster made no mention of executives
>>>>> with seven figure salaries who made bad decisions.
>>>> Those executives who make millions don't spend their money either.
>>>> They stack it up real high and dive off into a pool of money and
>>>> swim in it, afterwards light cigars with $100 bills before jetting
>>>> of to Aruba or the Caymans to hide their money from the tax man.
>>>> When they die the money goes tooffspring who never have to
>>>> contribute to society.
>>>> On the other hand, the union workers pay mortgages and send their
>>>> kids to college. They pay taxes, eat in restaurants and have their
>>>> haircut at the local barber. When they die they leave a little for family.
>>>> Why do we attack each other and say nothing as the rich continue to get richer?
>>> Non-union workers pay mortgages also. Besides, when the Fed floods
>>> banks with money to lend workers get jobs and are happy with the
>>> money just like the rich.
>>> Besides, when the Fed floods the banks with money it also
>>> causes inflation. This is why interest rates were set higher
>> Nope, the interest rates went higher because the economy was doing well.
> Exactly.
Nope.
> It heated up the economy and created an inflation bubble.
Nope.
> So the Fed regulated the interest rate up.
Nope. It had previously dropped them because the economy wasnt doing as well.
And then returned to normal when the economy was doing normally.
The Jap interest rates stayed at a low level because their economy never did pick up.
>>> and the happy workers could no longer afford their mortgages.
>> Only a fool borrows so much at variable interest rates that they cant afford
>> the payments when the interest rates inevitably return to normal levels.
>>> And when you have inflation cash becomes worth less while assets
>>> hold real value. The rich have more assets. So the Fed, a creation
>>> of Congress, contributes to the widening wealth and income gap.
>> No it doesnt. And with sub prime loans even the nothing like rich can own real estate assets.
> Normally, assets hold value when cash does not.
Thats wrong when the inflation rate is low.
> One reason people buy property is as a hedge against inflation.
The main reason most buy property is to have somewhere to live and avoid pouring the rent down a rat hole.
> Rich people have more property.
Rich people have more of everything except children.
Rod Speed
No reason why taxpayers who are paid a hell of a lot less than that should be slugged
to hand that money to GM to pay them so much more than most of the taxpayers.
Ken Lay
"Kitty" <cowg...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Because we live in a capitalistic society. This is the land of
> opportunity, you have choices, some choose to have mediocre jobs and
> live paycheck to paycheck, others start their own businesses, others
> live off taxpayers, still others acquire wealth.
And some people choose to get cancer and have tumors consume their
body. Still others choose to marry and have children they can't
_possibly_ afford to send to the better private schools. Really. As
stupid and as sad as it may sound to you and me, people make choices
like these. Many, many of the people you see on the street every single
day choose financial ruination rather than fabulous riches and wealth!
Can you imagine! Here, in the land of opportunity! Really. It won't
stop until we make poverty a felonious offense. We must throw off
the shackles of civilized behavior and have our officials take these
disgusting poor people someplace where they cannot offend our suffering
eyes any longer. Maybe Cuba would want them.
> That's why this is the USA and not Cuba. I applaud rich people, they
> have the freedom to make wealth, just like everyone else. But many
> take the easy route and live day to day, that's their choice.
>
> Kitty
Yay, Kitty! For having the courage to stand up and decry the easy life
of poverty, you win the Classiest Bitch In Town award! Please, give us a
speech...
--
Everybody lies. George W. Bush and Dick Cheney just suck at it.
Kitty
"Ken Lay" <livin_la_...@skilling.the.whipping.boy> wrote in message
news:livin_la_vida_morte-...@news.supernews.com...
===============================
You are just plain weird!
Evelyn
"Kitty" <cowg...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:jwtUk.63591$bx1....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
No you made a rather ridiculous post and he called you on it..... rather
successfully.
clams_casino
Gee - That's only about $160k/yr - near poverty according to the
Republican $250K threshold for middle class.
Daniel
Which is way more than someone who does nothing more than hold a tool
deserves. About $65 an hour too much.
> Good
> money but not obsene. Sports figures make more in one year than the GM
> worker will make in a lifetime, for playing a game for part of a year.
They also have a skill that an automaker doesn't have, which is in
demand.
Truth...@nospam.net
You people need to do some homework. The so-called $73 ph, is not cash.
it includes benefits and retirement costs.
Its a very good income, but its not way above the range of many others in
other businesses.
The problems of the big three is the fault of managment that decided to
make car people didn't want to buy.
In <9e83a8c3-9088-4e80...@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, on
11/18/2008
at 09:25 AM, Daniel <sabot...@hotmail.com> said:
>On Nov 17, 6:05 pm, Wilma6...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Nov 17, 1:12 pm, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Nov 17, 1:47 pm, "Fred Lorenzen" <fearless-freddie-
>>
>> > SpaMe...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>> > > <hp...@lycos.com> wrote in message
>>
>> > >news:1d1f2d3f-4963-44bb...@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com....
Daniel
> You people need to do some homework. The so-called $73 ph, is not cash.
> it includes benefits and retirement costs.
Which is STILL too much money for an unskilled laborer that does
nothing more than hold a tool.
>
> Its a very good income, but its not way above the range of many others in
> other businesses.
Way above other comparative unskilled labor positions.
>
> The problems of the big three is the fault of managment that decided to
> make car people didn't want to buy.
That and the fact that they caved in to unreasonable wage and benefit
demands for unskilled labor.
Truth...@nospam.net
11/18/2008
>On Nov 18, 1:29 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
>> You people need to do some homework. The so-called $73 ph, is not cash.
>> it includes benefits and retirement costs.
>Which is STILL too much money for an unskilled laborer that does nothing
>more than hold a tool.
Do your homework. Its not unskilled labor anymore.
BTW, an auto production line is worth something over $100K per hour. No
one puts dumbass, unskilled labor on these lines -- as you are trying to
imply.
The rest of your post is more stupid nonsense.
Truth...@nospam.net
Wrong right winger. We have high health costs -->because the republicans
have spent years defeating every attempt at fixing the system.
Now go drivel your right wing bullshit somewhere else.
In <t8n6i4lb1pg6nlbjb...@4ax.com>, on 11/19/2008
at 12:32 AM, Amos Nandy <amos_...@cebu.net> said:
>On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:22:29 GMT, Truth...@nospam.net wrote:
>>In <96c903fc-9181-4782...@a17g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, on
>>11/18/2008
>> at 01:32 PM, Daniel <sabot...@hotmail.com> said:
>>
>>
>>
>>>On Nov 18, 1:29 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
>>>> You people need to do some homework. The so-called $73 ph, is not cash.
>>>> it includes benefits and retirement costs.
>>
>>
>>>Which is STILL too much money for an unskilled laborer that does nothing
>>>more than hold a tool.
>>
>>
>>
>>Do your homework. Its not unskilled labor anymore.
>>
>>BTW, an auto production line is worth something over $100K per hour. No
>>one puts dumbass, unskilled labor on these lines -- as you are trying to
>>imply.
>Yes, and the Labor Unions who supported LaBomba have made ridiculous
>demands that equal $1500 added to the price of a car JUST TO COVER HEALTH
>BENEFITS (alcohol and drug rehab, abortion, etc,) No wonder that the
>country is going broke...leftist liberals and labor unions are in bed
>together but we the people are the ones getting fucked.
>>The rest of your post is more stupid nonsense.
>All of your post are stupid nonsense.
Devil.Handsome
"LeRoy Blue" <lero...@billon.net> wrote in message
news:4qb7i41e9o98l7ol4...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 02:53:32 GMT, Truth...@nospam.net wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Wrong right winger. We have high health costs -->because the republicans
>>have spent years defeating every attempt at fixing the system.
>
> ridiculous demands that equal $1500 added to the price of a car JUST
> TO COVER HEALTH BENEFITS (alcohol and drug rehab, abortion, etc,) No
> wonder that the country is going broke...leftist liberals and labor
> unions are in bed together but we the people are the ones getting
> fucked.
>
8 years and his drunken band of hillbilly fuckups, now that's some
unskilled
labor right there that cost us 1000's of times what the auto workers cost
you're just jealous that you're washing cars at hertz Honolulu for the
minimum wage aren't you gomer ?
LMAO, hell you're lucky a doofus like you has a fucking job
zzbu...@netscape.net
> In <96c903fc-9181-4782-a256-6a80cc40e...@a17g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, on
> 11/18/2008
> at 01:32 PM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
>
> >On Nov 18, 1:29 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
> >> You people need to do some homework. The so-called $73 ph, is not cash.
> >> it includes benefits and retirement costs.
> >Which is STILL too much money for an unskilled laborer that does nothing
> >more than hold a tool.
>
> Do your homework. Its not unskilled labor anymore.
Well, many of us have done the homework.
The only thing anybody with brains makes for metal-working
industries anymore,
and not only autos, and not only steel, and not only factories, is
A.I. and computers.
>
> BTW, an auto production line is worth something over $100K per hour. No
> one puts dumbass, unskilled labor on these lines -- as you are trying to
> imply.
>
> The rest of your post is more stupid nonsense.
>
>
>
>
>
> >> Its a very good income, but its not way above the range of many others in
> >> other businesses.
> >Way above other comparative unskilled labor positions.
>
> >> The problems of the big three is the fault of managment that decided to
> >> make car people didn't want to buy.
> >That and the fact that they caved in to unreasonable wage and benefit
> >demands for unskilled labor.- Hide quoted text -
Truth...@nospam.net
Hey right wign asshole --> There are statements from the companies that
health costs are out of their control.
The repuks that you love, have done nothing but stop reform of the system.
Now stop your right wing idiot lying. We threw you asshole out of
office this month, because of this kind of behavior. Get on the changes
goober.
In <4qb7i41e9o98l7ol4...@4ax.com>, on 11/19/2008
at 06:19 AM, LeRoy Blue <lero...@billon.net> said:
>On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 02:53:32 GMT, Truth...@nospam.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>Wrong right winger. We have high health costs -->because the republicans
>>have spent years defeating every attempt at fixing the system.
>Wrong, wrong winger, The Labor Unions who supported LaBomba have made
>ridiculous demands that equal $1500 added to the price of a car JUST TO
>COVER HEALTH BENEFITS (alcohol and drug rehab, abortion, etc,) No wonder
>that the country is going broke...leftist liberals and labor unions are
>in bed together but we the people are the ones getting fucked.
>>Now go drivel your right wing bullshit somewhere else.
>I'd rather post facts where you dribble wrong wing bull shit. So HERE I
>AM!
Daniel
> 11/18/2008
> at 01:32 PM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
>
> >On Nov 18, 1:29 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
> >> You people need to do some homework. The so-called $73 ph, is not cash.
> >> it includes benefits and retirement costs.
> >Which is STILL too much money for an unskilled laborer that does nothing
> >more than hold a tool.
>
> Do your homework. Its not unskilled labor anymore.
Your job consists of holding a tool that does all the work for you.
That by itself is the definition of unskilled. If you don't like it,
tough.
>
> BTW, an auto production line is worth something over $100K per hour. No
> one puts dumbass, unskilled labor on these lines -- as you are trying to
> imply.
The automakers do.
>
> The rest of your post is more stupid nonsense.
Just because you are unskilled labor, no need to get your panties in a
wad.
Cindy Hamilton
> Yes, and the Labor Unions who supported LaBomba have made ridiculous
> demands that equal $1500 added to the price of a car JUST TO COVER
> HEALTH BENEFITS (alcohol and drug rehab, abortion,
Isn't covering abortion more cost-effective than covering childbirth
and subsequent
medical expenses until age 18?
Cindy Hamilton
Truth...@nospam.net
Stop your driveling goober. Operating/monitoring a robot line that
assembles cars is not unskilled work. Nor, is it unskilled work to
manually install parts that the robots only do part of the assembly for.
That you can't figure that out, indicates the you lack the skills for such
a job.
In <08c9d4c0-41f4-46c3...@d36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, on
11/19/2008
zzbu...@netscape.net
> Stop your driveling goober. Operating/monitoring a robot line that
> assembles cars is not unskilled work. Nor, is it unskilled work to
> manually install parts that the robots only do part of the assembly for.
>
> That you can't figure that out, indicates the you lack the skills for such
> a job.
Well, a lot of these idiots think that anything with a wheel
attached is a robot.
Which is mostly why Adaptive A.I., RISC computers, Optical
Computers, Pv Cells,
lasers, masers, holograms, CD, DVD, HTDV, fiber optics, Solar
Energy, Wind Energy,
and On-Line-Publishing were invented to begin with.
>
> In <08c9d4c0-41f4-46c3-8a64-7128822bb...@d36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, on
> 11/19/2008
> at 09:23 AM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
>
>
>
> >On Nov 18, 5:22 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
> >> In <96c903fc-9181-4782-a256-6a80cc40e...@a17g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, on
> >> 11/18/2008
> >> at 01:32 PM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
>
> >> >On Nov 18, 1:29 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
> >> >> You people need to do some homework. The so-called $73 ph, is not cash.
> >> >> it includes benefits and retirement costs.
> >> >Which is STILL too much money for an unskilled laborer that does nothing
> >> >more than hold a tool.
>
> >> Do your homework. Its not unskilled labor anymore.
> >Your job consists of holding a tool that does all the work for you. That
> >by itself is the definition of unskilled. If you don't like it, tough.
>
> >> BTW, an auto production line is worth something over $100K per hour. No
> >> one puts dumbass, unskilled labor on these lines -- as you are trying to
> >> imply.
> >The automakers do.
>
> >> The rest of your post is more stupid nonsense.
> >Just because you are unskilled labor, no need to get your panties in a
> >wad.- Hide quoted text -
Marsha
Isn't covering the elimination of people with a low IQ or elderly people
more cost effective than covering their medical expenses? Depending on
who makes the rules, you could be on the next list.
Marsha
Wilm...@gmail.com
> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:23:55 -0800 (PST), Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
> <sabot12...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Nov 18, 5:22 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
> >> In <96c903fc-9181-4782-a256-6a80cc40e...@a17g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, on
> >> 11/18/2008
> >> at 01:32 PM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
>
> >> >On Nov 18, 1:29 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
> >> >> You people need to do some homework. The so-called $73 ph, is not cash.
> >> >> it includes benefits and retirement costs.
> >> >Which is STILL too much money for an unskilled laborer that does nothing
> >> >more than hold a tool.
>
> >> Do your homework. Its not unskilled labor anymore.
>
> >Your job consists of holding a tool that does all the work for you.
> >That by itself is the definition of unskilled. If you don't like it,
> >tough.
>
> with your premise -- by your premise a military pilot flying a 25
> million dollar aircraft is unskilled labor since all he does is sit in
> the cockpit and pull levers and push buttons.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
What has happened to America? We are fighting over whether or not some
worker is making too much at around $100,000 a year. This not right,
everyone who works should make enough to afford a home and to send
their children to college and to plan for retirement.
OTOH, we have the CEO for Ford making in excess of $25 million a year,
or $500,000 a week or $100,00 a day. The CEO who helped bring to ruin
his company makes more in one day than the worker who safely installs
life saving brakes on cars at a rate of about 60 an hour. Life is not
fair, but I thought my Pledge of Aligience said this country stood for
justice for all.
So, not only does the the CEO make more than 250 times more than some
'overpaid' worker, he flies to Washington DC in a private plane that
brings the flight cost for the CE to more than $40,000 round trip. He
could have flown coach for less than $300 or splurged and gone first
class for around $1000. Instead he needs to go private jet to meet
with elected millionaires and plead that Ford needs money.
tmc...@searchmachine.com
> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:23:55 -0800 (PST), Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
> <sabot12...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> In <96c903fc-9181-4782-a256-6a80cc40e...@a17g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, on
> >> 11/18/2008
> >> at 01:32 PM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
>
> >> >On Nov 18, 1:29 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
> >> >> You people need to do some homework. The so-called $73 ph, is not cash.
> >> >> it includes benefits and retirement costs.
> >> >Which is STILL too much money for an unskilled laborer that does nothing
> >> >more than hold a tool.
>
> >> Do your homework. Its not unskilled labor anymore.
>
> >Your job consists of holding a tool that does all the work for you.
> >That by itself is the definition of unskilled. If you don't like it,
> >tough.
>
> with your premise -- by your premise a military pilot flying a 25
> million dollar aircraft is unskilled labor since all he does is sit in
> the cockpit and pull levers and push buttons.- Hide quoted text -
>
No, it's all about how long it takes to become competent at the job.
There
are a LOT of jobs where the tool does most of the work and the human
just
has to hold it in the right place. There was a 60 Minutes in the mid
90s
about one of the Utica Club breweries that was closing. The people who
did nothing but fill the container of bottlecaps for the machine which
automatically capped the bottles were making $15.00/hour. This is back
in the 90s. They were called "operators" although they operated
nothing, and even they admitted that they had learned the job in under
2 hours. More than $30k, 12-15 years ago, and you learned the job in 2
hours? Yes, of course, they were unionized. Ridiculous salaries seemed
to be what put the place out of business.
I submit that if you can learn your job in less than a week, without
prior
education or experience, then the job is unskilled.
Billzz
news:b94a6bf7-74f7-4c8d...@j35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
-----------------------------------------------------
My left-hand carats are not working, but the above is from tmclone (I think)
and the below is from billzz..
Anyway, I was just passing by and remember that the US Army paid for my
bachelor's degree and one of the courses for my General Studies degree
(which places me in the same league as the jocks) was about occupations, and
what constituted a profession, occupation, skilled, unskilled, etc.
Anyway, if the person has formal training, followed by a test, then gets
accreditation, or a certificate, or a license, then that person is a
"skilled" worker. So people who run big equipment, which requires training,
a test, and a license, are, by definition, skilled workers.
Anyway, again (can you take any more?) the US Army also paid for my master's
degree, this time in Public Administration (because they wanted "any"
degree, the shorter, the better - I was a generalist) and I learned a whole
bunch more of definitions.
Anyway, again, again ( I thought you would like that) it does not make any
difference what we think. It's codified in law. Y'all, we'all, can call
someone *unskilled* but there is a city, county, state, and federal
regulation which states explicitly what is a skilled or unskilled trade or
occupation. It means something to someone.
Because of liability issues (don'cha know) a forklift operator, almost
certainly, has to have formal training, a test, and a license. So, by
definition, the position is *not* unskilled worker. The person may be
*unskilled,* but not in the definition of the occupation.
I shoulda been a lawyer.
Devil.Handsome
<tmc...@searchmachine.com> wrote in message
news:b94a6bf7-74f7-4c8d...@j35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:23:55 -0800 (PST), Daniel
No, it's all about how long it takes to become competent at the job.
There
are a LOT of jobs where the tool does most of the work and the human
just
has to hold it in the right place. There was a 60 Minutes in the mid
90s
about one of the Utica Club breweries that was closing. The people who
did nothing but fill the container of bottlecaps for the machine which
automatically capped the bottles were making $15.00/hour. This is back
in the 90s. They were called "operators" although they operated
nothing, and even they admitted that they had learned the job in under
2 hours. More than $30k, 12-15 years ago, and you learned the job in 2
hours? Yes, of course, they were unionized. Ridiculous salaries seemed
to be what put the place out of business.
I submit that if you can learn your job in less than a week, without
prior
education or experience, then the job is unskilled.
so let's see, it appears that the bush hillbilly learned his job in less
than 4 minutes,
so does that make him overpaid ?
is limbaugh worth $50 mil+ a year, or Judge Judy worth $40 million a year,
are soldiers worth more than the $30 or $40 k they make ?
if we hadn't imported 25 million low wage illegals, then what would wages be
?,
can't we let the market place and demand set wages, we do need people to put
bottle caps on bottles, otherwise the liquid would run out,
we need people to change the sheets in hotels, mop the floors, pick up the
trash, put out the fires, arrest the bad republican criminals,
and a million other low skill but still hard jobs that don't pay a whole lot
what I'm hearing is jealousy about union wages, what we really need is more
money for these people who
contribute a lot more than they are given credit for by arrogant, obnoxious
assholes like you and
less for the people at the top who have become proficient at stealing and
manipulating the system
to enrich themselves
why don't you run down to bentonville and stand in line to kiss those wal
mart hillbilly cocksuckers asses, they must be well qualified in your eyes
after
putting countless milions of americans out of work and treating their
employees like indentured servants,
didn't we fight our first war to get rid of arrogant, elite,effite, and
effeminate, aristocratic bastards like you ?
fuck off shithead, what working people make is none of your business,
Truth...@nospam.net
Your unskilled workers are not the norm anymore son. Its 2008. Not the
1990s. People don't walk-in and get high paying jobs. It takes weeks of
OJT to work on production lines now, and most of the really good
(so-called unskilled jobs [according to you right wingers]) take 4 or more
years of experience to be eligable for.
In <b94a6bf7-74f7-4c8d...@j35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, on
11/19/2008
Truth...@nospam.net
Your unskilled workers are not the norm anymore son. Its 2008. Not the
1990s.
In <b94a6bf7-74f7-4c8d...@j35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, on
11/19/2008
at 08:33 PM, tmc...@searchmachine.com said:
Vic Smith
>
>Your unskilled workers are not the norm anymore son. Its 2008. Not the
>1990s. People don't walk-in and get high paying jobs. It takes weeks of
>OJT to work on production lines now, and most of the really good
>(so-called unskilled jobs [according to you right wingers]) take 4 or more
>years of experience to be eligable for.
>
What do you call a good cook with a year's experience that can keep a
couple hundred people asking for recipes, as opposed to the one who's
been cooking with the same recipes for 10 years and never gets asked
for one?
Could say essentially the same about cement finishers or hairdressers,
etc, etc. Even the Micky D server who flashes a smile but is slow at
making change might be better for business than the quick sourpuss
working alongside.
AFAIC there's skilled trades and everybody else.
And HR is rolling the dice most the time in sorting them out.
--Vic
Daniel
> assembles cars is not unskilled work. Nor, is it unskilled work to
> manually install parts that the robots only do part of the assembly for.
>
> That you can't figure that out, indicates the you lack the skills for such
> a job.
Face it, a janitor is as much a skilled laborer as you are. You're
nothing more than an overpaid monkey. The FACT that I have hit a nerve
by calling you an unskilled laborer just proves my point.
Daniel
> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:23:55 -0800 (PST), Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
> <sabot12...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> In <96c903fc-9181-4782-a256-6a80cc40e...@a17g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, on
> >> 11/18/2008
> >> at 01:32 PM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
>
> >> >On Nov 18, 1:29 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
> >> >> You people need to do some homework. The so-called $73 ph, is not cash.
> >> >> it includes benefits and retirement costs.
> >> >Which is STILL too much money for an unskilled laborer that does nothing
> >> >more than hold a tool.
>
> >> Do your homework. Its not unskilled labor anymore.
>
> >Your job consists of holding a tool that does all the work for you.
> >That by itself is the definition of unskilled. If you don't like it,
> >tough.
>
> with your premise -- by your premise a military pilot flying a 25
> million dollar aircraft is unskilled labor since all he does is sit in
> the cockpit and pull levers and push buttons.
Except that pilot has a 4 year college education, and at least a year
of flight school to learn to fly said aircraft, and does it for far
less than the toothess goober that holds the machine to tighten lug
nuts.
Truth...@nospam.net
11/20/2008
First prove you know what you are talking about; e.g., show us that the
lug nut guy is getting the $103K!
Truth...@nospam.net
Stop driveling goober. You're just pissed because you can't get a good
assembly line job.
In <ff5fd3ac-e7e5-4a4a...@41g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, on
11/20/2008
Cindy Hamilton
> What has happened to America? We are fighting over whether or not some
> worker is making too much at around $100,000 a year. This not right,
> everyone who works should make enough to afford a home and to send
> their children to college and to plan for retirement.
No, they shouldn't. Different jobs have different values. If
employers had
to pay high wages for very low-skill jobs, this country would soon go
out
of business. Suppose some job adds $10,000 in value to the company.
What would happen if the employer paid that worker $20,000? The
company
would go bankrupt.
> OTOH, we have the CEO for Ford making in excess of $25 million a year,
> or $500,000 a week or $100,00 a day. The CEO who helped bring to ruin
> his company makes more in one day than the worker who safely installs
> life saving brakes on cars at a rate of about 60 an hour. Life is not
> fair, but I thought my Pledge of Aligience said this country stood for
> justice for all.
The Pledge of Alllegiance is not a governing document of the United
States
of America. It is a bit of patriotic fluff that makes people feel
good.
> So, not only does the the CEO make more than 250 times more than some
> 'overpaid' worker, he flies to Washington DC in a private plane that
> brings the flight cost for the CE to more than $40,000 round trip. He
> could have flown coach for less than $300 or splurged and gone first
> class for around $1000. Instead he needs to go private jet to meet
> with elected millionaires and plead that Ford needs money.
Still, I won't argue that many CEOs are ridiculously overpaid. It's
obviously
not about the money for them. It's a way of keeping score against
other
CEOs.
Cindy Hamilton
Cindy Hamilton
> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:55:21 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
In this context, that is irrelevant. We're talking about health
insurance costs.
As it happens, I have a formula for assessing the value of a human
life.
It's completely fair, but it works most accurately for adult
Americans:
The value of a human life is the amount of life insurance that they
carry.
Each person determines their own value. What could be more fair?
Cindy Hamilton
Cindy Hamilton
Happily, elimination of people is rarely a covered benefit under most
health
insurance plans. You offer a scenario that is completely irrelevant
to
the discussion at hand.
Cindy Hamilton
Rod Speed
> On Nov 19, 9:37 pm, Amos Nandy <amos_na...@cebu.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:55:21 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
>>
>> <angelicapagane...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Nov 18, 7:32 pm, Amos Nandy <amos_na...@cebu.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> Yes, and the Labor Unions who supported LaBomba have made
>>>> ridiculous demands that equal $1500 added to the price of a car
>>>> JUST TO COVER HEALTH BENEFITS (alcohol and drug rehab, abortion,
>>
>>> Isn't covering abortion more cost-effective than covering childbirth
>>> and subsequent
>>> medical expenses until age 18?
>>
>> It depends on what value you put on the life of a human being.
>
> In this context, that is irrelevant. We're talking about health insurance costs.
> As it happens, I have a formula for assessing the value of a human life.
No you dont.
> It's completely fair, but it works most accurately for adult Americans:
Its completely useless.
> The value of a human life is the amount of life insurance that they carry.
No it isnt.
> Each person determines their own value.
No they dont.
> What could be more fair?
It aint about fair.
tmc...@searchmachine.com
wrote:
> On Nov 19, 9:37 pm, Amos Nandy <amos_na...@cebu.net> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:55:21 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
>
> > <angelicapagane...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >On Nov 18, 7:32 pm, Amos Nandy <amos_na...@cebu.net> wrote:
>
> > >> Yes, and the Labor Unions who supported LaBomba have made ridiculous
> > >> demands that equal $1500 added to the price of a car JUST TO COVER
> > >> HEALTH BENEFITS (alcohol and drug rehab, abortion,
>
> > >Isn't covering abortion more cost-effective than covering childbirth
> > >and subsequent
> > >medical expenses until age 18?
>
> > It depends on what value you put on the life of a human being.
>
> In this context, that is irrelevant. We're talking about health
> insurance costs.
>
> As it happens, I have a formula for assessing the value of a human
> life.
> It's completely fair, but it works most accurately for adult
> Americans:
>
> The value of a human life is the amount of life insurance that they
> carry.
>
> Each person determines their own value. What could be more fair?
>
> Cindy Hamilton
Wow, so since I have no life insurance by your definition my life is
worth
nothing. Not everyone needs life insurance, you know. DH and I have
no
dependents, no debts other than the mortgage, and our cremations are
pre-paid. We've even set aside money for our cats to be cared when we
die. Our savings are more than enough to pay off the mortgage right
now. Why on earth would we spend money on life insurance? For us, life
insurance is neither necessary nor frugal.
Daniel
> In <19d19ad2-38a9-47d7-8e77-b11665ab2...@s20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, on
> 11/20/2008
Maybe you should pay some fucking attention to the thread you're
particiapting in.
Daniel
> assembly line job.
I am over qualified.
Truth...@nospam.net
11/20/2008
>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122688631448632421.html
You should learn to read goober. There is nothing -- zero -- in that
story about $103K per year -- unskilled laborer causeing the problem .
That is what the thread is about goober.
Marsha
Nice try. The subject was health benefits for union workers to cover
abortion (among other things), to which you gave an idiotic response. I
think it would be cheaper to eliminate people like you, rather than have
you continue screwing up the world.
Marsha
Fred Lorenzen
<Truth...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:PilVk.1804$4g5...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
: In
Before calling Daniel 'goober' did you read the original posters
(hp...@lycos.com) first posting in this thread?
In fact if you take the time and effort to actually read the very first
posting in this thread originally posted by hp...@lycos.com on Saturday,
November 15, 2008 5:51 PM you would in fact read quote - "One
blue-collar Delphi worker interviewed by the Detroit News makes $103,000
a year operating a forklift and fears the consequences if his pay is
drastically reduced" - unquote.
This thread also reveals that the total average hourly compensation for
a General Motors UAW employee is $73.26 an hour which is about $2,900 a
week or close to $150,000 a year.
Fred
Billzz
"Fred Lorenzen" <fearless-fre...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:vvqVk.388938$TT4.34528@attbi_s22...
You are talking to a person who is mentally impaired. He reads little,
researches nothing, cites nothing, yet insults everybody for some unknown
reason. If you respond then he will insult you, say something which has
nothing to do with the subject, then arbitrarily dismiss you as someone not
worth talking to. But if you respond then you will get the same thing over
and over again. I used to think that he was a Turing Test, but now I think
that he actually exists. If you respond to him, then he will go on forever.
Plonk file recommended.
Truth...@nospam.net
Focus lifer:
"The point all you right wingers keep ignoring is this; its not the
worker who caused the auto industry problems. Its *management, who
decided to build cars people didn't want to buy.
This is even more important for you goobers to learn -- and the big 3
executives arrived in Washington begging in their own jets, and were told
to go home and don't come back until you have a plan to save the business
and pay the taxpayers back.
PS: Congress didn't say one word about high wages for unskilled labor.
Connect the dots."
In <c4315$49264b0b$9440b19b$31...@STARBAND.NET>, on 11/20/2008
Truth...@nospam.net
And the point all you right wingers keep ignoring is this; its not the
worker who caused the auto industry problems. Its *management, who
decided to build cars people didn't want to buy.
This is even more important for you goobers to learn -- and the big 3
executives arrived in Washington begging in their own jets, and were told
to go home and don't come back until you have a plan to save the business
and pay the taxpayers back.
PS: Congress didn't say one word about high wages for unskilled labor.
Connect the dots.
In <vvqvk.388938$TT4.34528@attbi_s22>, on 11/21/2008
at 04:08 AM, "Fred Lorenzen" <fearless-fre...@mchsi.com>
said:
clams_casino
>Focus lifer:
>
>"The point all you right wingers keep ignoring is this; its not the
>worker who caused the auto industry problems. Its *management, who
>decided to build cars people didn't want to buy.
>
>
Must be a typo. I stopped buying GM cars many years ago due to the
quality.
Or are you suggesting "management" designed poor quality into their
vehicles.
Cindy Hamilton
What evidence do you have that I have done anything at all to screw
up
the world. My goodness, I had no idea I have such power. I think
I'll
have to try it out this weekend.
I still fail to see the connection between the obvious cost savings to
the
insurer of abortion versus childbirth and childrearing, and the
elimination
of retarded or elderly people. You compare a covered (or not
covered)
insurance benefit with something that doesn't even happen. Where is
the logic?
Cindy Hamilton
Cindy Hamilton
By your own admission, the economic consequences of your death are
minimal. Therefore, the dollar value of your life is minimal.
I'm not talking about intangibles such as the emotional value of you
to your
spouse. That is beyond price (one would hope). If you died, could
any amount
of money console your husband?
I carry life insurance to help my husband pay his expenses should I
die. It's
about three times my annual salary, and is enough to pay off our
mortgage,
or he could use it in any other way he found valuable. It's not a
substitute
for me, but it could help to make his day-to-day life easier until he
was
done grieving.
Cindy Hamilton
Dennis
<PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>Must be a typo. I stopped buying GM cars many years ago due to the
>quality.
>
>Or are you suggesting "management" designed poor quality into their
>vehicles.
In a manner of speaking, they did.
To produce a car for a given market price point, the big 3 have costs
about $2000 more than their competitors do, due to contractual union
worker and retiree benefits. Clearly that difference has to be made
up somewhere, with quality and features being a likely target for
reductions.
Dennis (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.
Rod Speed
Yes.
> Therefore, the dollar value of your life is minimal.
Wrong.
> I'm not talking about intangibles such as the emotional value
> of you to your spouse. That is beyond price (one would hope).
> If you died, could any amount of money console your husband?
Irrelevant to your silly claim that if your life isnt insured, it has no value.
> I carry life insurance to help my husband pay his expenses should I die.
More fool you. Its such a low risk that it isnt worth insuring against.
> It's about three times my annual salary, and is enough to pay off
> our mortgage, or he could use it in any other way he found valuable.
That doesnt mean your life is worth anything like that.
> It's not a substitute for me, but it could help to make his day-to-day life easier until he was done grieving.
And risks him killing you to get that money if things are tight.
Cindy Hamilton
> And risks him killing you to get that money if things are tight
He carries as much insurance as I do. It could easily go the other
way.
Cindy Hamilton
Fred Lorenzen
<Truth...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:JeyVk.1888$4g5....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
:
: And the point all you right wingers keep ignoring is this; its not
: worker who caused the auto industry problems. Its *management, who
: decided to build cars people didn't want to buy.
:
:
: This is even more important for you goobers to learn -- and the big 3
: executives arrived in Washington begging in their own jets, and were
told
: to go home and don't come back until you have a plan to save the
business
: and pay the taxpayers back.
:
: PS: Congress didn't say one word about high wages for unskilled
labor.
: Connect the dots.
Besides not being able to read you also are unable to hear and/or
listen. During both the Senate (Banking) and House (Financial Services)
committee hearings UAW president Ron Gettelfinger was heavily criticized
for UAW’s General Motors/Ford/Chrysler high labor cost which is over
twice the labor of cost of Honda/Toyota/Hyundai. The Big 3’s high UAW
labor cost was in fact a key focal point of both the Senate (Banking)
and House (Financial Services) committee hearings. The UAW’s contract
unrealistic requirement of UAW Membership “Full Pay” during General
Motors/Ford/Chrysler factory shutdowns was a “Hot Topic” during the
Senate (Banking) and House (Financial Services) committee hearings.
Before attempting to add any meaningful factual information to this
thread educate yourself to the true real facts instead of fabricating
your own ‘made up facts’.
Fred
: In <vvqvk.388938$TT4.34528@attbi_s22>, on 11/21/2008
Daniel
> In <72046dc7-e3c0-42f8-9c71-2016d2aa2...@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, on
> 11/20/2008
So you didn't read it. Typical dumbshit.
Truth...@nospam.net
Run along son. You are cherry-picking the info and putting your spin on
it. That does not make it factual.
I could detail it for you, but you're here to troll -- not think.
In <bZFVk.390159$TT4.159184@attbi_s22>, on 11/21/2008
at 09:44 PM, "Fred Lorenzen" <fearless-fre...@mchsi.com>
said:
><Truth...@nospam.net> wrote in message
>news:JeyVk.1888$4g5....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>:
>: And the point all you right wingers keep ignoring is this; its not
>the
>: worker who caused the auto industry problems. Its *management, who
>: decided to build cars people didn't want to buy.
>:
>:
>: This is even more important for you goobers to learn -- and the big 3
>: executives arrived in Washington begging in their own jets, and were
>told
>: to go home and don't come back until you have a plan to save the
>business
>: and pay the taxpayers back.
>:
>: PS: Congress didn't say one word about high wages for unskilled
>labor.
>: Connect the dots.
> @ Truth...@nospam.net,
>Besides not being able to read you also are unable to hear and/or
>listen. During both the Senate (Banking) and House (Financial Services)
>committee hearings UAW president Ron Gettelfinger was heavily criticized
>for UAWÆs General Motors/Ford/Chrysler high labor cost which is over
>twice the labor of cost of Honda/Toyota/Hyundai. The Big 3Æs high UAW
>labor cost was in fact a key focal point of both the Senate (Banking)
>and House (Financial Services) committee hearings. The UAWÆs contract
>unrealistic requirement of UAW Membership ôFull Payö during General
>Motors/Ford/Chrysler factory shutdowns was a ôHot Topicö during the
>Senate (Banking) and House (Financial Services) committee hearings.
>Before attempting to add any meaningful factual information to this
>thread educate yourself to the true real facts instead of fabricating
>your own æmade up factsÆ.
Truth...@nospam.net
I read it goober. It did not state there $103K per year -- unskilled
laborers -- causing the problem. And that point is what the thread is
about.
In <f74263a1-75dc-431a...@h20g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, on
11/21/2008
at 01:51 PM, Daniel <sabot...@hotmail.com> said:
>On Nov 20, 5:14 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
>> In <72046dc7-e3c0-42f8-9c71-2016d2aa2...@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, on
>> 11/20/2008
>> at 12:40 PM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Nov 20, 12:05 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
>> >> In <19d19ad2-38a9-47d7-8e77-b11665ab2...@s20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, on
>> >> 11/20/2008
>> >> at 08:57 AM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
>>
>> >> >On Nov 19, 9:34 pm, BE-VA <blackwater-evangal...@testland.net> wrote: >
>> >> >On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:23:55 -0800 (PST), Daniel
>>
>> >> >> <sabot12...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >On Nov 18, 5:22 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
>> >> >> >> In <96c903fc-9181-4782-a256-6a80cc40e...@a17g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, on
>> >> >> >> 11/18/2008
>> >> >> >> at 01:32 PM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
>>
>> >> >> >> >On Nov 18, 1:29 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> You people need to do some homework. The so-called $73 ph, is not cash.
>> >> >> >> >> it includes benefits and retirement costs.
>> >> >> >> >Which is STILL too much money for an unskilled laborer that does nothing
>> >> >> >> >more than hold a tool.
>>
>> >> >> >> Do your homework. Its not unskilled labor anymore.
>>
>> >> >> >Your job consists of holding a tool that does all the work for you..
clams_casino
>I read it goober. It did not state there $103K per year -- unskilled
>laborers -- causing the problem. And that point is what the thread is
>about.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Hint - UAW -
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm2135.cfm
Most of the Big Three's UAW workers' compensation comes as benefits, not
cash. These affluent wages and benefits prevent the Detroit automakers
from successfully competing.
The average private sector worker earned $25.36 an hour in 2006--$17.91
an hour in cash wages and $7.45 an hour in benefits such as pensions,
paid time off, and health insurance. Autoworkers at Japanese plants
located in the United States earn substantially more than this: between
$42 and $48 an hour in wages and benefits, which amounts to over $80,000
a year in total compensation
The typical UAW worker at the Big Three earned between $71 and $76 an
hour in 2006. This amount is triple the earnings of the typical worker
in the private sector and $25 to $30 an hour more than American workers
at Japanese auto plants. The average unionized worker at the Big Three
earns over $130,000 a year in wages and benefits.
Furthermore -
UAW employees also receive the following extraordinary provisions:
* 30-and-Out contracts. UAW employees work under a 30-and-Out
contract that allows them to retire with generous pension benefits
after 30 years on the job, irrespective of age.
* Seven weeks' vacation. A Chrysler worker with 15 years' tenure was
entitled to 34.5 paid holidays and vacation days in 2006--seven
weeks in paid time off. This is three weeks more paid vacation
than the average private sector
worker with similar tenure.
* Paid not to work. Under UAW contracts, workers whom the automakers
let go when plants close are not laid off. Instead, after
exhausting regular unemployment payments from the automakers and
the government, they are transferred to a JOBS bank where they are
paid nearly full wages to not work.
Truth...@nospam.net
The problem is a Big 3 management failure. Not a worker failure.
Furthermore, you are using the total per hour labor cost that is given
out. That includes current workers and retirees. Using it as a current
worker number -- as you guys are doing, is spinning the facts to suite the
nonsense.
The problem will not be changed by whining.
In <iCHVk.832$ve....@newsfe23.iad>, on 11/21/2008
clams_casino
>The problem is a Big 3 management failure. Not a worker failure.
>Furthermore, you are using the total per hour labor cost that is given
>out. That includes current workers and retirees. Using it as a current
>worker number -- as you guys are doing, is spinning the facts to suite the
>nonsense.
>
>The problem will not be changed by whining.
>
>
>
>
>
It's a management failure to the point that they have always bowed to
the UAW in fear of strikes.
When GM controlled the market, the UAW shared in the wealth. Now that
GM's share has tanked, the UAW need to take some serious cuts in
benefits to get into line with the market..
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> And risks him killing you to get that money if things are tight
> He carries as much insurance as I do. It could easily go the other way.
And if you two werent silly enough to piss all that money against the wall in insurance, it couldnt.
And your 'lives' wouldnt change value if you stopped insuring them either.
Snowbound
> The subject was health benefits for union workers to cover abortion
> (among other things), to which you gave an idiotic response.
People like you should count your blessings. You could live under an
enforced abortion regime, which this country has never seen. Plenty of
regimes have been, though.
Your advocacy of outlawing abortion only for women who can't afford to
travel someplace where it is safe and legal is worse. It is a direct
throwback to the days of slavery, the closest this land has ever been to
enforced abortion. You would condemn the entire nation into being a
prison for women simply to enforce your anti-empirical policies, usually
based on religious faith. Then you would staunchly ignore the very pain
and suffering you cultivated, claiming "they" have no right to your
greedy prosperity.
There has NEVER been any just law based solely on any religious faith,
never in the all the history of mankind. It is essential to peace that
any church or organized faith seriously attempting to intervene in the
laws of man be buried by the fury of those they would enslave.
Christian, Muslim, Jew, all the same. Piety is only real when it is
humble and hopeful. Real faith forever shuns worldly ambition, all else
is corrupt and false.
Truly Stunned
clams_casino <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> Furthermore -
>
> UAW employees also receive the following extraordinary provisions:
>
> * 30-and-Out contracts. UAW employees work under a 30-and-Out
> contract that allows them to retire with generous pension benefits
> after 30 years on the job, irrespective of age.
> * Seven weeks' vacation. A Chrysler worker with 15 years' tenure was
> entitled to 34.5 paid holidays and vacation days in 2006--seven
> weeks in paid time off. This is three weeks more paid vacation
> than the average private sector
> worker with similar tenure.
> * Paid not to work. Under UAW contracts, workers whom the automakers
> let go when plants close are not laid off. Instead, after
> exhausting regular unemployment payments from the automakers and
> the government, they are transferred to a JOBS bank where they are
> paid nearly full wages to not work.
Hmm. Did the unions negotiate in a vacuum? What weapon was held to the
head of the manufacturers to force them to agree to these terms? Perhaps
the Big Three were not interested in the long-term effects of their
negotiations because they knew if the day came when their companies were
truly threatened, they could simply declare bankruptcy (if the
government refused to fund their shortsightedness) and walk away.
Meanwhile there was all that money to be made crushing electric vehicles.
Truly Stunned
Vic Smith <thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote:
> The skilled/unskilled is a BS method of classifying people anyway.
> What do you call a good cook with a year's experience that can keep a
> couple hundred people asking for recipes, as opposed to the one who's
> been cooking with the same recipes for 10 years and never gets asked
> for one?
> Could say essentially the same about cement finishers or hairdressers,
> etc, etc. Even the Micky D server who flashes a smile but is slow at
> making change might be better for business than the quick sourpuss
> working alongside.
> AFAIC there's skilled trades and everybody else.
> And HR is rolling the dice most the time in sorting them out.
>
> --Vic
Good point. Many of the best mechanics I have ever known approached
their work in much the same way as an artist approaches a canvas.