Please do not buy a new car.
wis...@yahoo.com
>Product still grossly overpriced. Workers still getting those very
>high wages. Government will again bail them out but the
>push for more efficient vehicles will escalate Do what ever
>repairs are required even if it means a new engine. You'll
>still be ahead of the game. Make this a thumb-your-nose
>exercise to those in business and government would got
>us into this probably terminal condition.
>
>Some years back in Virgina's fox hunting country region,
>it became apparent that those with the most money
>and status drove below average vehicles, some of
>them quite trashy. But they knew their place in
>society and simply didn't give a hoot about a vehicle.
>
>Minor repairs can be done duct tape.
>
>ted
The days one's merit was based on what they drove exists
only in the ghettos. Best Washington, DC traffic car I owned
was a 15 year old AMC Hornet(1974 model). Painted a sort of orange.
People
were careful to stay as it was obvious that the driver simply
didn't give a shit.
ted
Al
So what's your point? You have to drive something usually. Pick
whatever works for you. I used to buy new. In recent years I've gotten
steals on used vehicles. Car companies are aware of your cunning plan.
They have tended to raise the price of repair parts in an effort to
encourage people to dump old iron. Eventually, the Chinese will
dictate price.
--Bryan
So what's *your* point? You could drive lots of things. You could
drive a golfball. You could drive cattle on the Chisholm trail. You
could drive your mother freakin' crazy for that matter.
--Bryan
Annie Woughman
"Al" <albu...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:9826021f-2a04-4f35...@e23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 19, 6:09 pm, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:38:55 -0700, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >Product still grossly overpriced. Workers still getting those very
>> >high wages. Government will again bail them out but the
>> >push for more efficient vehicles will escalate Do what ever
>> >repairs are required even if it means a new engine. You'll
>> >still be ahead of the game. Make this a thumb-your-nose
>> >exercise to those in business and government would got
>> >us into this probably terminal condition.
>>
>> ted
>
> So what's your point? You have to drive something usually. Pick
> whatever works for you. I used to buy new. In recent years I've gotten
> steals on used vehicles. Car companies are aware of your cunning plan.
> They have tended to raise the price of repair parts in an effort to
> encourage people to dump old iron. Eventually, the Chinese will
> dictate price.
Actually the subject line is a good one. Buying a NEW car is never frugal.
The minute you drive it off the lot it depreciates by thousands of dollars.
We always buy am American made mid-sized sedan that is a rental return or a
fleet car. These cars usually only have about 11,000 miles on them are in
mint condition, fully loaded and are less than half the price of a new car.
My last "new" to me car is a 2002 Ford Taurus we bought in 2003 for $11,400.
It has leather seats, a moon roof, CD player, climate control, etc and 9,275
miles. Mid-sized sedans are also frugal because they are cheaper to insure
than any of the sporty models. My husband's job keeps him on the road a lot
so he is on his fifth such vehicle. The other four are still in the
family--we just passed them on to the kids. All are running fine in spite of
lots of miles (all freeway) on them now, but with proper maintenance and
upkeep we have had very few repair bills.
h
"Annie Woughman" <anniew...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tmCNm.4589$kY2....@newsfe01.iad...
I always buy a small Subaru that's at least 10 years old. I paid $5k for my
last one 3 years ago. I only drive about 3k miles a year, so they last about
10 years. I don't expect this one to die for at least 7 years.
clams_casino
>
>
> "Al" <albu...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
> news:9826021f-2a04-4f35...@e23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
>> On Nov 19, 6:09 pm, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:38:55 -0700, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> >Product still grossly overpriced. Workers still getting those very
>>> >high wages. Government will again bail them out but the
>>> >push for more efficient vehicles will escalate Do what ever
>>> >repairs are required even if it means a new engine. You'll
>>> >still be ahead of the game. Make this a thumb-your-nose
>>> >exercise to those in business and government would got
>>> >us into this probably terminal condition.
>>>
>>> ted
>>
>>
>> So what's your point? You have to drive something usually. Pick
>> whatever works for you. I used to buy new. In recent years I've gotten
>> steals on used vehicles. Car companies are aware of your cunning plan.
>> They have tended to raise the price of repair parts in an effort to
>> encourage people to dump old iron. Eventually, the Chinese will
>> dictate price.
>
>
> Actually the subject line is a good one. Buying a NEW car is never
> frugal.
This has been disproven many times. It really depends on one's typical
mileage. For low mileage drivers and those who value their time making
repairs at zero, buying used makes much sense. For high mileage
drivers, new can make sense. The costs of buying a used car every few
years soon offsets a single car purchase, especially considering new
cars rarely require any repairs for the first 100K miles.
> The minute you drive it off the lot it depreciates by thousands of
> dollars.
Are you trying to suggest used cars don't depreciate the moment you
drive off the lot? Too many times, the new car depreciation is
considered off the list price. Does anyone pay list?
> We always buy am American made mid-sized sedan that is a rental return
> or a fleet car.
Ours have always ben American. Our last three have been by Honda.
None of those GM / Ford imports for us.
> These cars usually only have about 11,000 miles on them are in mint
> condition, fully loaded and are less than half the price of a new car.
> My last "new" to me car is a 2002 Ford Taurus we bought in 2003 for
> $11,400. It has leather seats, a moon roof, CD player, climate
> control, etc and 9,275 miles.
So how many total miles do you typically get from these fleet cars? Are
they in as good of condition as the typical rental car? Until we went
Honda, we only averaged about 125 miles per car before excessive repairs
/ maintenance made them too costly to keep. Our 2000 Accord now has
180K and runs as well as any low mileage GM that I've rented. My 2005
Pilot has 110k miles and runs essentially when it was brand new (any GM
or Ford I've ever owned had about 10K miles before it felt well broken
in (down?). I went in to replace the tires (original) several weeks
ago, but the tire dealer said I had at least another 10k-20K miles.
Its suspension is simply outstanding.
Annie Woughman
"clams_casino" <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
news:aMDNm.36484$Wd1....@newsfe15.iad...
I don't know how many miles we will get out of them. They are all still
running fine. When we bought them they had approx 10,000 miles on them.
Hubby has typically turned each car over to one of the kids when it hit
160,000 miles. We are talking a 99, an 02, 03 and an 05. The 99 has at
least 200,000, I'm not sure about the rest but they are driven every day on
commutes, the shortest of which is 7 miles one way.
Can you really say with a straight face that you think it is a better deal
to pay $30,000 to $36,000 for a brand new car than it is to pay $11,000 to
$14,000 for the same car with only 10,000 or 11,000 miles on it a year or
two later?
clams_casino
>
>
> Can you really say with a straight face that you think it is a better
> deal to pay $30,000 to $36,000 for a brand new car than it is to pay
> $11,000 to $14,000 for the same car with only 10,000 or 11,000 miles
> on it a year or two later?
Depends on the car. Then again, I'd be very suprised to find any $30k
car selling for $10k with 10k miles after one year or even two years.
Can you suggest a model that would meet that qualification?
There are GM, Ford & Chrysler models, for example, that I'd never pay
$10k for no matter what the mileage. On the other hand, I'm sold on
Honda since they rarely seem to require repairs. It would be impossible
to find a Honda product for $12k with only 10k miles. My 2005 Pilot
actually had a higher trade-in allowance after one year vs. my new
purchase price, even with at its 25k miles.
It had a $32k list / $29k cost including sale tax (no trade). At 110k
miles, it currently has an Edmunds estimated trade-in value of $11k
($13.5k retail value). Our 23k 2000 Accord at about 180k currently has
a trade vaue of 3k and a retail price of 3.5k. I fully expect to see
another 100k miles on it.. It continues to run exceptional well with
minimal maintenance / repair costs. I doubt any GM or Ford would
maintain a similar value. Few seem to reach 200k without significant
repair costs.
On the other hand, why would someone dump a $30k car for just $12k after
one year with just 10k miles? Is the potential for repair costs that high?
Then again, I've owned enough GM cars to appreciate how poor in
condition they get within their first 10-20k miles.
.
VFW
clams_casino <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
Probably, the best way , certainly the easiest , is to buy an "09 now,
that the ;10's are out. and have no trade-in. you could easily get that
amount off the price. sell your car privately . Dealers give you
nothing for it. they don't want your trade-in.
and shop around. work one dealer off the others. get help if necessary.
and good luck. Oh, yes don't buy a one year car or the first year of a
"new" design.
--
money; what a concept!
William Tucker
"clams_casino" <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
> Annie Woughman wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Can you really say with a straight face that you think it is a better
>> deal to pay $30,000 to $36,000 for a brand new car than it is to pay
>> $11,000 to $14,000 for the same car with only 10,000 or 11,000 miles on
>> it a year or two later?
>
>
> Depends on the car. Then again, I'd be very suprised to find any $30k
> car selling for $10k with 10k miles after one year or even two years. Can
> you suggest a model that would meet that qualification?
> There are GM, Ford & Chrysler models, for example, that I'd never pay $10k
> for no matter what the mileage. On the other hand, I'm sold on Honda
> since they rarely seem to require repairs. It would be impossible to find
> a Honda product for $12k with only 10k miles. My 2005 Pilot actually
> had a higher trade-in allowance after one year vs. my new purchase price,
> even with at its 25k miles.
>
prices stay high.
> It had a $32k list / $29k cost including sale tax (no trade). At 110k
> miles, it currently has an Edmunds estimated trade-in value of $11k
> ($13.5k retail value). Our 23k 2000 Accord at about 180k currently has a
> trade vaue of 3k and a retail price of 3.5k. I fully expect to see
> another 100k miles on it.. It continues to run exceptional well with
> minimal maintenance / repair costs. I doubt any GM or Ford would
> maintain a similar value. Few seem to reach 200k without significant
> repair costs.
I find that anyone that knows anything about the workings of a car can
usually judge whether a used car is a clunker or not. For the rest of them
a check over by a competent mechanic is always good.
>
> On the other hand, why would someone dump a $30k car for just $12k after
> one year with just 10k miles? Is the potential for repair costs that
> high?
That's just the way places like Hertz, Enterprise, Budget and large
corporations that provide company cars for their employees do business--buy
in bulk, sell before mileage is too high. Dealerships have car buyers who
travel to the auctions on a regular basis to keep their used car inventory
up.
>
> Then again, I've owned enough GM cars to appreciate how poor in condition
> they get within their first 10-20k miles.
What, you didn't take care of them? I haven't found GM to be any better or
worse than Honda, Toyota, Subaru or Ford.
>
> .
Vic Smith
Sure. All hondaheads say pretty much the same.
That's saves me a lot of money.
--Vic
clams_casino
>>
>>
>>
>So, you are married to the brand. A lot of people are, that is why the
>prices stay high.
>
>
>
I am now. After being stuck by a number of GM products & having three
out of three Honda products perform beyond my expectations, I'm sold.
On the other hand, it's unlikely I'll need another for at least five
years, likely longer. With such limited repeat buying, one has to
wonder how they do so well. With a GM products, they know you'll be
back within 125k miles.
>
>I find that anyone that knows anything about the workings of a car can
>usually judge whether a used car is a clunker or not. For the rest of them
>a check over by a competent mechanic is always good.
>
>
Excellent advice. When I lived in Charlotte, they had a service called
something like LemonBusters that would provide an independent evaluation
for a reasonable fee - especially important if buying off an
individual. No sure if they are still around.
>
>What, you didn't take care of them? I haven't found GM to be any better or
>worse than Honda, Toyota, Subaru or Ford.
>
>
That's certainly NOT been my experience. I can't say I treated them
differently, only that the GM, Chrysler & Ford products I've owned seem
to develop squeaks, road noise, reduced ride quality, etc within about
10k-20k miles whereas my Honda products seem to run as well at 100k as
they did new.
clams_casino
>
>
>Probably, the best way , certainly the easiest , is to buy an "09 now,
>that the ;10's are out. and have no trade-in. you could easily get that
>amount off the price. sell your car privately . Dealers give you
>nothing for it. they don't want your trade-in.
>and shop around. work one dealer off the others. get help if necessary.
>and good luck. Oh, yes don't buy a one year car or the first year of a
>"new" design.
>
>
Fully agree, however I did buy my most current car only a few months
into its model year. Previously, I typically would buy late in the
model year or even new, but 1.5 years old. My primary car at that time
was totaled (hit head-on by a drunk driver while legally parked
unoccupied). It happened to be mid January after a big snow storm when
the dealer apparently wanted to move some vehicles. Oddly, they had a
$5k coupon in the paper off any Pilot on their lot. I previous bought
two cars via internet for the best price, but in this case, I couldn't
get an internet price within $500 of the January special.
Bottom line - there are no firm rules.
Lou
> news:9826021f-2a04-4f35...@e23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>> On Nov 19, 6:09 pm, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:38:55 -0700, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> >Product still grossly overpriced. Workers still getting those very
>>> >high wages. Government will again bail them out but the
>>> >push for more efficient vehicles will escalate Do what ever
>>> >repairs are required even if it means a new engine. You'll
>>> >still be ahead of the game. Make this a thumb-your-nose
>>> >exercise to those in business and government would got
>>> >us into this probably terminal condition.
>>>
>>> ted
>>
>> So what's your point? You have to drive something usually. Pick
>> whatever works for you. I used to buy new. In recent years I've gotten
>> steals on used vehicles. Car companies are aware of your cunning plan.
>> They have tended to raise the price of repair parts in an effort to
>> encourage people to dump old iron. Eventually, the Chinese will
>> dictate price.
>
> Actually the subject line is a good one. Buying a NEW car is never
> frugal. The minute you drive it off the lot it depreciates by thousands of
> dollars.
What alsways seems to be missing from discussions like this is the
acknowledgment that not everyone can buy a used car - if someone didn't buy
cars new, eventually there wouldn't be any used cars.
clams_casino
I guess in theory, as long as the fleet / rental industry want cars
with minimal potential for breakdowns, repairs & maintenance, there is
always a significant market for new - especially the entry level, basic
models.
On the other hand, the used market does not do well with buyers like me
who run their cars till the end of their useful life. I've only sold
two cars <100k. In both cases, it was to unload a crappy vehicle.
Vic Smith
>
>What alsways seems to be missing from discussions like this is the
>acknowledgment that not everyone can buy a used car - if someone didn't buy
>cars new, eventually there wouldn't be any used cars.
>
That's a given, since many won't buy a used car.
What's often missing is the discussion of risk when buying used versus
the warranty that comes with a new car.
That warranty is nothing to sneeze at.
And it is perfectly possible to buy a used car that will cost an arm
and leg in repairs.
Though I always buy used, I can see why others might not want to.
Said another way buying used requires a couple prerequisites:
You have to know more about car mechanical issues when selecting.
You have be able to do some of your own mechanical work or have a
trustworthy mechanic to do it, and accept those costs.
As much as I can do that myself, if a person who can't do it - or
doesn't want to do it - asked for my advice on a car purchase, I would
say "Buy new."
Sometimes "extra" money is well spent.
--Vic
Rod Speed
>>> wis...@yahoo.com wrote
>>>> wis...@yahoo.com wrote
>>>>> Product still grossly overpriced. Workers still getting those very
>>>>> high wages. Government will again bail them out but the
>>>>> push for more efficient vehicles will escalate Do what ever
>>>>> repairs are required even if it means a new engine. You'll
>>>>> still be ahead of the game. Make this a thumb-your-nose
>>>>> exercise to those in business and government would got
>>>>> us into this probably terminal condition.
>>> So what's your point? You have to drive something usually. Pick
>>> whatever works for you. I used to buy new. In recent years I've
>>> gotten steals on used vehicles. Car companies are aware of your
>>> cunning plan. They have tended to raise the price of repair parts
>>> in an effort to encourage people to dump old iron. Eventually, the
>>> Chinese will dictate price.
>> Actually the subject line is a good one. Buying a NEW car is never
>> frugal. The minute you drive it off the lot it depreciates by
>> thousands of dollars.
> What alsways seems to be missing from discussions like this is the
> acknowledgment that not everyone can buy a used car - if someone
> didn't buy cars new, eventually there wouldn't be any used cars.
There will always be plenty who buy new cars.
I am perfectly capable of working out which used car is a viable buy, but
choose to go the minimum effort route of a new car instead. The last one
lasted 35+ years and so it didnt cost much more than a used one would have.
Rod Speed
I have only done that once and in my case it was to get a much more suitable car.
The VW Beetle was replaced with a Golf, basically because I ended up
with a huge great alsatian dog that was so keen on driving around with
his head out of the window that he even did that on a long trip in the
middle of winter. The Beetle only has one opening window on each
side of the car and in the summer he would slobber down the back of
my neck when doing it. So I swapped the Beetle for the Golf and he got
his own window and I got a much better body for camping from the car etc.
Rod Speed
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:08:41 -0500, "Lou" <lpo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> What alsways seems to be missing from discussions like this is the
>> acknowledgment that not everyone can buy a used car - if someone
>> didn't buy cars new, eventually there wouldn't be any used cars.
>>
>
> That's a given, since many won't buy a used car.
> What's often missing is the discussion of risk when buying used versus
> the warranty that comes with a new car.
> That warranty is nothing to sneeze at.
> And it is perfectly possible to buy a used car that will cost an arm
> and leg in repairs.
Doesnt mean that you have to spend that tho. You can always
toss it when it becomes clear that its passed its useby date.
> Though I always buy used, I can see why others might not want to.
In my case its basically because I keep the cars so long that there isnt
much in it cost wise so I might as well have the convenience of the new
car. The previous new car lasted 35+ years.
> Said another way buying used requires a couple prerequisites:
> You have to know more about car mechanical issues when selecting.
Not necessarily, you can always pay someone to check if it you dont have that.
> You have be able to do some of your own mechanical work or
> have a trustworthy mechanic to do it, and accept those costs.
That isnt that hard.
> As much as I can do that myself, if a person who
> can't do it - or doesn't want to do it - asked for my
> advice on a car purchase, I would say "Buy new."
I wouldnt necessarily, depends on their financial situation.
> Sometimes "extra" money is well spent.
Yes, but not that often.
imascot
> Dealers give you
> nothing for it. they don't want your trade-in.
Not true. They very much want your trade-in. They won't give you much for it, but they will charge
top dollar when they sell it. If it's ratty, they'll wholesale it to get it off the lot. Dealers typically make
more profit off each used vehicle than they do off new ones. That's why you'll never see a new car
dealer that does not sell used cars, although some only sell their own brand.
J.