Re: STIMULUS AIDS ILLEGALS ALIENS
hp...@lycos.com
> Hill Republican: Stimulus aids illegal immigrants
>
> Jan 29 12:02 PM US/Eastern
>
> By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS
> Associated Press Writer
>
> House OKs $819 Billion Stimulus Bill Without One GOP Vote
>
> Pelosi Stammers Through Defense Of $335 Million For STD Education In Stimulus Bill
>
> Proposal: ‘Obama-Limbaugh Bipartisan Stimulus Plan of 2009'
>
> WASHINGTON (AP) - The $800 billion-plus economic stimulus measure making its way
> through Congress could steer government checks to illegal immigrants, a top
> Republican congressional official asserted Thursday.
>
> The legislation, which would send tax credits of $500 per worker and $1,000 per
> couple, expressly disqualifies nonresident aliens, but it would allow people who
> don't have Social Security numbers to be eligible for the checks.
>
> Undocumented immigrants who are not eligible for a Social Security number can file
> tax returns with an alternative number. A House-passed version of the economic
> recovery bill and one making its way through the Senate would allow anyone with such
> a number, called an individual taxpayer identification number, to qualify for the tax
> credits.
>
> A revolt among GOP conservatives to similar provisions of a 2008 economic stimulus
> bill, which sent rebate checks to most wage earners, forced Democratic congressional
> leaders to add stricter eligibility requirements. That legislation, enacted in
> February 2008, required that people have valid Social Security numbers in order to
> get checks.
>
> The GOP official voiced concerns about the latest economic aid measure on condition
> of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss it publicly.
>
> Republicans have already blasted the package for including what they argue is
> wasteful spending and omitting tax cuts for wealthier people and businesses they say
> are needed to jump-start the anemic economy.
>
> Not a single Republican voted for an $819 billion version of the plan when it passed
> the House on Wednesday.
>
> GOP senators arranged a midday news conference to voice their concerns.
Vote-grubbing congressional scumbags pander to their beloved illegal
aliens.
mitch
http://www.wvwnews.net/ Western Voices World News
John A. Weeks III
<13136e26-f770-4ae1...@k19g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>,
hp...@lycos.com wrote:
> Vote-grubbing congressional scumbags pander to their beloved illegal
> aliens.
How is that pandering? The illegals cannot get tax refunds now, so
they are over-paying into the system. This simply lets them get
their money back. There are valid places to catch and return
illegals, but stealing their money should not be one of those
methods.
-john-
--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 jo...@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================
Scout
"John A. Weeks III" <jo...@johnweeks.com> wrote in message
news:john-72F26C.0...@news-3.octanews.net...
> In article
> <13136e26-f770-4ae1...@k19g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>,
> hp...@lycos.com wrote:
>
>> Vote-grubbing congressional scumbags pander to their beloved illegal
>> aliens.
>
> How is that pandering? The illegals cannot get tax refunds now, so
> they are over-paying into the system. This simply lets them get
> their money back. There are valid places to catch and return
> illegals, but stealing their money should not be one of those
> methods.
Why not?
It is the proceeds of crime, and thus subject to forfeiture like any other
proceeds of crime....
If anything we should be taking MORE of their money.
James
news:z6Dgl.877$N5....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net:
Exactly right. If we can punish the masses with unfair taxes
for smoking cigarettes and, rightfully, discourage drunk driving
with the enormous human and financial costs associated with this
activity, there's no reason not to attack illegal immigration
with the same harsh methods. But, oops, there's that word again,
'racism'. Oh my ....
bat
> they are over-paying into the system.
They are paying tax without having SSN?
The way I read the article is: most likely, those illegals who were not
filing any tax returns up to date because they did not have SSN, and who
consequently did not pay taxes, now will file them with alternative tax id
in order to receive the stimulus credit.
Tony
declare it open season for peeing in public on illegal aliens.
hp...@lycos.com wrote:
> On Jan 29, 3:38 pm, AnAmericanCitizen <NoAmne...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Hill Republican: Stimulus aids illegal immigrants
> >
> > Jan 29 12:02 PM US/Eastern
> >
> > By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS
> > Associated Press Writer
> >
> > House OKs $819 Billion Stimulus Bill Without One GOP Vote
> >
> > Pelosi Stammers Through Defense Of $335 Million For STD Education In Stimulus Bill
> >
> > Proposal: 前bama-Limbaugh Bipartisan Stimulus Plan of 2009'
--
The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG
Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city
Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know proper manners
Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs,
Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!
El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar
Master Juba was a black man imitating a white man imitating a black man
Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions beyond the realm of
understandability
Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday
SMS
>> The illegals cannot get tax refunds now, so
>> they are over-paying into the system.
>
> They are paying tax without having SSN?
Yes. They have fictitious SSNs. The money goes in, but it never is
refunded. We're talking about illegals that have jobs in places
(factories, farms, hotels, etc.) where the employer takes money out of
their pay for taxes. The employer could easily verify that the SSNs are
invalid, but they don't want to.
What's extremely unfair about this is not that the taxes get taken out,
but that the federal government keeps all the money, while the state
governments have the mandate to provide education, health care, etc..
The states have no power to crack down on illegal immigration, that's
the feds job, yet the states bear all the costs.
In 2002, Social Security collected $56 billion from SSNs that didn't
belong to anyone.
There's an article you can read at
"http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html".
There's a big incentive for the feds to not crack down on illegal
immigration. Besides the fact that a lot of well-connected companies
depend on illegals for cheap labor, the government is collecting a lot
of money from illegals.
bat
S> refunded. We're talking about illegals that have jobs in places
S> (factories, farms, hotels, etc.) where the employer takes money out of
S> their pay for taxes. The employer could easily verify that the SSNs are
S> invalid, but they don't want to.
I see. Thanks for clarification.
Keith
> In article
> <13136e26-f770-4ae1-bbb2-5fa55616d...@k19g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> hp...@lycos.com wrote:
> > Vote-grubbing congressional scumbags pander to their beloved illegal
> > aliens.
>
> How is that pandering? The illegals cannot get tax refunds now, so
> they are over-paying into the system. This simply lets them get
> their money back. There are valid places to catch and return
> illegals, but stealing their money should not be one of those
> methods.
>
> -john-
>
> --
> ======================================================================
> Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
> ======================================================================
Let it be known right now that they are not overpaying into the
system. For every dollar they pay in taxes, they get more than a
dollar in services. The millions of uneducated, unskilled peasants
get free health care as well as their millions of children who also
get free education. Don't give me that crap...
SMS
> Let it be known right now that they are not overpaying into the
> system. For every dollar they pay in taxes, they get more than a
> dollar in services. The millions of uneducated, unskilled peasants
> get free health care as well as their millions of children who also
> get free education. Don't give me that crap...
This is often the case. The problem is that the federal government gets
the tax money, but the states provide the education and health care.
It's a boondoggle that benefits the federal government, while states
struggle under the burden.
h
"SMS" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:yc3hl.19322$Ws1....@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
Ok, maybe I don't get it. How does any uninsured person get free health
care? I've been self-employed for 15 years and finally had to drop my health
insurance when the premium hit $4,000 with a $2,500 deductible every year.
On a gross income of less than $25,000 (about 60% less than I made under
Clinton, thanks, Bush) I simply couldn't afford it. Hell, even in a great
economy I only go to the doctor when I'm bleeding, so $2,500 is more than
twice what I've ever spent on health care in one year.
My point is, if I go to the hospital or a doctor, I get a bill that I have
to pay. It's not like the gubmint's going to pick up the tab. How am I any
different from any other uninsured person? Ok, so maybe they don't pay and
since they don't own anything they can skate on it, but I still don't see
how the taxpayer is picking it up. What am I missing?
SMS
> "SMS" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:yc3hl.19322$Ws1....@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> Keith wrote:
>>
>>> Let it be known right now that they are not overpaying into the
>>> system. For every dollar they pay in taxes, they get more than a
>>> dollar in services. The millions of uneducated, unskilled peasants
>>> get free health care as well as their millions of children who also
>>> get free education. Don't give me that crap...
>> This is often the case. The problem is that the federal government gets
>> the tax money, but the states provide the education and health care. It's
>> a boondoggle that benefits the federal government, while states struggle
>> under the burden.
>
> Ok, maybe I don't get it. How does any uninsured person get free health
> care?
In California kids go on Medical. Everyone else simply goes to the
emergency room. You have assets that the hospital can go after to get
paid. An illegal typically has nothing, yet the hospital must provide care.
h
??? My hospital requires a credit card up front or an insurance card, and
they call to make sure they'll get paid. I don't know of any hospitals
around here that don't do that. If you can't pay, they won't treat you. I
was bleeding all over the lobby but they called my credit card in for
authorization before they even took a history. Urgent care works the same
way. I don't know how it is for non-emergency visits, but I would assume
it's the same thing. I don't think we have any "gubmint" hospitals around
here.
Woody
"h" <tmc...@searchmachine.com> wrote in message
news:gm4d3o$20go$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
>
> ??? My hospital requires a credit card up front or an insurance card, and
> they call to make sure they'll get paid. I don't know of any hospitals
> around here that don't do that. If you can't pay, they won't treat you. I
> was bleeding all over the lobby but they called my credit card in for
> authorization before they even took a history. Urgent care works the same
> way. I don't know how it is for non-emergency visits, but I would assume
> it's the same thing. I don't think we have any "gubmint" hospitals around
> here.
So, if you hadn't been able to pay, they would have just let you bleed to
death? To paraphrase a certain fringe group from times past, long live
Amerikkka.
Woody
h
"Woody" <em...@munged.com> wrote in message
news:%1jhl.65382$pp1....@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...
>
> "h" <tmc...@searchmachine.com> wrote in message
> news:gm4d3o$20go$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
>>
>> ??? My hospital requires a credit card up front or an insurance card, and
>> they call to make sure they'll get paid. I don't know of any hospitals
>> around here that don't do that. If you can't pay, they won't treat you. I
>> was bleeding all over the lobby but they called my credit card in for
>> authorization before they even took a history. Urgent care works the same
>> way. I don't know how it is for non-emergency visits, but I would assume
>> it's the same thing. I don't think we have any "gubmint" hospitals around
>> here.
>
> So, if you hadn't been able to pay, they would have just let you bleed to
> death?
That was certainly the impression I got. I wasn't dying, but I had cut my
finger very deeply. I needed 10 stitches and it took less than 15 minutes.
It cost $1,200 which works out to $120 a stitch. Their cost was the doctor,
the nurse, the room, the anesthetic, the sutures, the betadine, the tape,
and the gauze. By those figures, a room in the ER costs $4800 an hour at the
bare minimum. Seems a little pricey to me. I would rather have gone to
Urgent Care (much cheaper) but they're only open 6am-10pm. We're in the
boonies out here, and nothing is "free" for anyone.
fang
> "Woody" <em...@munged.com> wrote in message
> news:%1jhl.65382$pp1....@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...
>>
>> "h" <tmc...@searchmachine.com> wrote in message
>> news:gm4d3o$20go$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
>>>
>>> ??? My hospital requires a credit card up front or an insurance
>>> card, and they call to make sure they'll get paid. I don't know of
>>> any hospitals around here that don't do that. If you can't pay,
>>> they won't treat you. I was bleeding all over the lobby but they
>>> called my credit card in for authorization before they even took a
>>> history. Urgent care works the same way. I don't know how it is for
>>> non-emergency visits, but I would assume it's the same thing. I
>>> don't think we have any "gubmint" hospitals around here.
>>
>> So, if you hadn't been able to pay, they would have just let you
>> bleed to death?
> That was certainly the impression I got.
More fool you.
Consider what happens to someone unconcious from a car accident
that doesnt have any credit cards in his wallet etc, you're seriously
claiming that they just yawn and let that individual die ?
Presumably you actually are that stupid.
Keith
Yes you are completely right. And that is why the state of California
is in the mess that it is in with IOU's and and no budget months past
due.
AndyS
Andy writes:
I'd like to add a comment.
I live in Navarro County, Texas. We have about a 26% Mex population
and
a large large percentage of them are here illegally.....
We are a poor county and have only one hospital. They are losing
500K a month for unpaid bills and for treating illegals that can't get
Medicaid.
To make up some of the losses, their charges to the insured are very
high. In fact, they don't accept my insurance carrier ( United
Healthcare)
because the compensation to them isn't enough. I travel to the next
county to go to a hospital/clinic that does accept my insurance.
Fortunately for me, I live near the county line and the distances are
about the same.
A second private hospital wanted to build in Corsicana, the county
seat,
and it was not approved by the city officials because it would take
business
away from the county hospital. They were afraid all the insured
patients
would go to the private hospital and the county hospital would go
broke.....
So, Navarro County still has only one hospital, bleeding money.
And this isn't even a horror story.... just a statement of fact
that is repeated
throughout the US.
Andy in Eureka, Texas
Keith
By George Skelton
February 02, 2009
Based on my e-mail, a lot of folks think the solution to California’s
state budget deficit is to round up all the illegal immigrants and
truck them down to Mexico.
Wrong. Even if it were logistically possible and the deportees didn’t
just climb off the truck and hitch another ride back up north, their
absence from the state wouldn’t come close to saving enough tax
dollars to balance a budget that has a $42-billion hole projected over
the next 17 months.
Painful cuts in education, healthcare and social service programs
still would be needed. Sharp tax increases would be required.
That said, let’s be honest: Illegal immigration does cost California
taxpayers a substantial wad, undeniably into the billions.
But it hasn’t been PC for officeholders to talk about this for years,
ever since Gov. Pete Wilson broke his pick waging an aggressive
campaign for Proposition 187. That 1994 ballot initiative sought to
bar illegal immigrants from most public services, including education.
Voters approved the measure overwhelmingly, but it was tossed out by
the courts.
Wilson was demonized by Democrats within the Latino community. And
many think the Republican Party never has recovered among this rapidly
growing slice of the electorate.
So it’s not a topic that comes easily to the tongues of politicians,
even Republicans.
Besides, most of the policy issues are out of California’s hands. The
federal government has jurisdiction over the border. Federal law
decrees that every child is entitled to attend public school,
regardless of immigration status. And every person – here illegally or
not – must be cared for in hospital emergency rooms.
But the state does add a few benefits that aren’t required.
And as Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and legislative leaders dig into the
books trying to find billions in savings, at least a brief look at
what’s being spent on illegal immigrants seems in order.
First, nobody seems to know exactly. Numbers vary widely, depending
which side they come from in the ongoing angry debate over whether
people who entered the country illegally to work should be allowed to
stay or loaded on the southbound truck.
But here are some no-agenda numbers:
* There were 2.8 million illegal immigrants living in California in
2006, the last year for which there are relatively good figures,
according to the nonpartisan Public Policy Institute of California.
That represented about 8% of the state’s population and roughly a
quarter of the nation’s illegal immigrants. About 90% of California’s
illegal immigrants were from Latin America; 65% from Mexico.
* There are roughly 19,000 illegal immigrants in state prisons,
representing 11% of all inmates. That’s costing $970 million during
the current fiscal year. The feds kick in a measly $111 million,
leaving the state with an $859 million tab.
* Schools are the toughest to calculate. Administrators don’t ask kids
about citizenship status. Anyway, many children of illegal immigrants
were born in this country and automatically became U.S. citizens.
If you figure that the children of illegal immigrants attending K-12
schools approximates the proportion of illegal immigrants in the
population, the bill currently comes to roughly $4 billion. Most is
state money; some local property taxes.
* Illegal immigrants aren’t entitled to welfare, called CalWORKs. But
their citizen children are. Roughly 190,000 kids are receiving welfare
checks that pass through their parents. The cost: about $500 million,
according to the nonpartisan Legislative Analyst’s Office.
Schwarzenegger has proposed removing these children from the welfare
rolls after five years. It’s part of a broader proposal to also boot
off, after five years, the children of U.S. citizens who aren’t
meeting federal work requirements. There’d be a combined savings of
$522 million.
* The state is spending $775 million on Medi-Cal healthcare for
illegal immigrants, according to the legislative analyst. Of that,
$642 million goes into direct benefits. Practically all the rest is
paid to counties to administer the program. The feds generally match
the state dollar-for-dollar on mandatory programs.
So-called emergency services are the biggest state cost: $536 million.
Prenatal care is $59 million. Not counted in the overall total is the
cost of baby delivery – $108 million – because the newborns aren’t
illegal immigrants.
The state also pays $47 million for programs that Washington does not
require: Non-emergency care (breast and cervical cancer treatment),
$25 million; long-term nursing home care, $19 million; abortions, $3
million.
Schwarzenegger has proposed requiring illegal immigrants to requalify
every month for Medi-Cal benefits, except pregnancy-related
emergencies.
There also are other taxpayer costs – especially through local
governments – but those are the biggies for the state. Add them all up
and the state spends well over $5 billion a year on illegal immigrants
and their families.
Of course, illegal immigrants do pay state taxes. But no way do they
pay enough to replenish what they’re drawing in services. Their main
revenue contribution would be the sales tax, but they can’t afford to
be big consumers, and food and prescription drugs are exempt.
My view is this: These people are here illegally and shouldn’t be,
regardless of whether they’re just looking for a better life. Do it
the legal way. And enforce the law against hiring the undocumented.
On the other hand, they are here. We can’t have uneducated kids and
unhealthy people living with us. We have moral obligations and
practical imperatives.
The Obama administration and Congress need to finally pass an
immigration reform act that allows for an agriculture work program and
a route to citizenship.
Meanwhile, California should be honest about the costs. Illegal
immigrants are not the sole cause of the state’s deficit. But they are
a drain.